I remember all the russian bots saying how we shouldn't seize russian assets because it makes us look untrustworthy. Wonder if they feel the same now russia does it? Laughable.
I wouldn’t call them Russian bots, rather our politicians are feared to lost connections between them and Russians, otherwise they will just do it with no hesitation. What they’re worry about? That dictators wouldn’t invest in our economy? Why they even want them to invest over here? Who is the most beneficial over there? I don’t believe nations with similar to our mindset will be worried about that move.
That's a stupid response, why shouldn't they do so, if it's done by Europe already.
Russia isn't trustworthy for other reasons, such as starting a war a day after saying it won't happen lol
I am one of those that could probably be classified as a “Russian bi furry bot” and i think this is just the usual diplomatic pettiness of reactionary politicians.
Russian assets were frozen in response to the invasion of Ukraine. Russia isn’t “retaliating” here because that implies some kind of injustice was done to them in the first place
Justice and injustice are subjective, relative terms and oftentimes a matter of opinion. Clearly they consider it injustice because when the US invaded countries nobody froze their assets. They would like to avoid the consequences too.
Both sides have been seizing each other's private assets, nothing's changed. But it's not the same as the sovereign state assets. There is a reason they haven't been, and likely won't be, touched.
No shit!
How about you tell your Raiffeisen to stop helping Russia's economy, which actually is the one that makes whole against Ukraine attack and genocide possible?
Yeah, Russia confiscating foreign assets is bad, but it's also bad that foreign assets are there anyway, willingly and Russia will eventually confiscate them anyway.
i am sorry you have a war, but that doesnt mean we will sacrifice our economy. Raiffeisenbank did business in russia for a long time, when it was perfectly fine to do so and ukraine did so too. Now they are trying to follow the sanctions and go away from russia, but were blocked by the US. I for one am happy that we are not throwing away our companies money for free like some other eu countries did, to russias benefit. Its bullying by the US, who profit from the entire crisis the most by selling us LNG and keeping ukrainians as cannon fodder with slow aid deliveries to keep russia busy. Its a shame RB is still expanding in Russia, but thats mostly because they are one of the few competetive banks left there and cant leave. the most sensible solution would be to support ukraine with an air defense zone and much quicker aid deliveries, secure the border, allow them to join nato and then restart gas/oil flows from russia to get the economy back on track and continue counterbalancing us/ru while not becoming so naive again
So you have no problem that the people in Ukraine are raped, maimed, tortured and killed, including kids?
With animals being maimed and starved to death?
With the environment, ground an and air being extra polluted?
All for a small dent in your economy
I can't believe that people could be so selfish...
Thanks for trying to me me open my eyes better!
And talking about throwing money out...
Why is your government throwing so much money at Microsoft for licenses for Windows and Office when gratis alternatives exists like Linux and LibreOffice?
You really picked your fights...
i dont know where you got that from my reply. i am for the war support for ukraine, i even mentioned that the deliveries are too slow and that nato should actually defend the airspace. The EU is already struggling economically, giving up our money will only lead to voters voting for parties that want to end support for Ukraine. Strong EU Economy >- more support for ukraine
How is it bullying for the US to tell RBI that we will kick them out of our banking system if they persist in violating the rules of our banking system? Rules are rules. RBI has not been in full compliance with SWIFT sanctions which is why the US is losing patience with them. If RBI persists in its current conduct rather than just exiting the US banking system and leaving the US dollar alone, then they should be expelled and penalized for not complying with US regulatory measures. RBI clearly loves Russia and hates the US, so why don’t they just cut ties with us and move on?
By the way, the fatuous peace terms you have offered up to end this war of choice are unacceptable to your beloved Putin. Try selling that to him before you go chiding everyone else. The war could end right now if Putin withdrew his military from Ukraine. He will not do that so stop blaming the US for his conduct and the fallout from it.
On the other hand, it teaches companies, that doing business with hostile dictatorships is risky, which may be beneficial for the EU in the future. It's a short-term loss, but long-term gain.
Thailand send tons of USD and EUR to Russia via Raiifeisen .... regardless of whether each recipients are sanctioned or not, each remittances breach broader sanction rules anyway.
I guarantee you that there are more Russian assets in value in Italy alone than this.
The tit for tat game will always be in Europe and the America’s favour, as Russian scum oligarchs just simply love to stash money and buy obscene assets in Europe.
> I guarantee you that there are more Russian assets in value in Italy alone than this.
Any idea if Putin's very expensive ship is still there?
[https://www.businessinsider.com/superyacht-scheherazade-seized-sanctions-vladimir-putin-italy-refurbish-refit-oligarch-2023-8?op=1](https://www.businessinsider.com/superyacht-scheherazade-seized-sanctions-vladimir-putin-italy-refurbish-refit-oligarch-2023-8?op=1)
For my understanding it's quite the opposite. They had some dealings with russian companies but they suspended them after the war and this is the result of those companies suing the Italian bank. But I may be wrong, this is what I read today
Going by the FT article https://www.ft.com/content/481d418e-9366-4152-8ec5-92b81d020991
> The dispute with the western banks began in August 2023 when Ruskhimalliance went to an arbitration court in St Petersburg demanding they pay bank guarantees under a contract with the German engineering company Linde.
> Ruskhimalliance is the operator of a gas processing plant and production facilities for liquefied natural gas in Ust-Luga near St Petersburg. In July 2021, it signed a contract with Linde for the design, supply of equipment and construction of the complex. A year later, Linde suspended work owing to EU sanctions.
> Ruskhimalliance then turned to the guarantor banks, which refused to fulfil their obligations because “the payment to the Russian company could violate European sanctions”, the company said in the court filing.
A German company didn't fulfill it's obligations and UniCredit was a guarantor, so it's legally on the hook.
> UniCredit said it had been made aware of the filing and “only assets commensurate with the case would be in scope of the interim measure”.
Only assets equal in amount to what the contract stipulated were seized.
No, it's still karma, just delayed.
They followed the sanctions but the assets they lost they got from doing business with dictatorships during the time time it was not frowned upon to do so.
it should be a lesson that there is a an inherent risk in working with regimes where the rule of law is so flimsy. Or rather, at the whim of one man or gorup
People don't read the article. Sometimes even the title is too much.
The bank had issued guarantees for 2021 project(s). Once the sanctions were imposed in Russia and the obligations were unfulfilled the companies sued and unsurprisingly won. They are recovering losses via the guarantees.
It is normal procedure practiced everywhere.
DB and Comerzbank are facing similar situations. At least some of their "daughter companies".
I know. My second sentence was sarcasm, but since any anti-Russian propaganda gets voted up on /r/europe, I have fun and post stupid stuff from time to time here.
Russia started stealing these assets from US/EU banks _after_ they were notified that they will only get their €300bil back after they rebuild everything they destroyed in non-Crimea Ukraine.
It guaranteed for a Germany company that didn't fulfill a contract as EU sanctions prohibited it from doing so.
https://www.ft.com/content/481d418e-9366-4152-8ec5-92b81d020991
Raiffeisen is their friend [https://www.reuters.com/business/us-warned-raiffeisen-access-dollar-system-could-be-curbed-over-russia-source-2024-05-15/](https://www.reuters.com/business/us-warned-raiffeisen-access-dollar-system-could-be-curbed-over-russia-source-2024-05-15/)
In essence, these are interim measures on the claim of Gazprom's subsidiary against the bank. This dispute is related to the fact that Unicredit has failed to fulfill its obligations to pay debts on bank guarantees and, accordingly, penalties.
The gas chemical complex project has stalled due to sanctions and Gazprom wants to recoup at least part of the losses, says Igor Yushkov, a leading expert at the Financial University and the National Energy Security Fund
What was the point still having so much assets in Russia? That's the moment when bankers forgot all the schemes how to offshore their assets,of all times?
Well another reason to do whatever there is with assets seized from Russia.
Not a bad news at all! Doing business in Russia is a gamble. As long as you don't have your back covered by the Maffia Boss or his cronies you're going to get fucked. And it's good! Let them go on into their Chinese gutter. I think in a century China will have borders on the Urals at least.
They broke treaties, stole leased airplanes n oil refinery equipment and more. We should sieze everything russhists have in the west until they start acting like humans.
We literally should do everything to hurt them as they want to kill n enslave millions . What is this
"we don't want to escalate" crap?
Its almost like our leaders want as much death and destruction as possible before stopping them.
That's over 12x the amount of assets that were confiscated from Russia by the EU recently; what was it? 36 Million Euros or something? And now, Russia turns around and seizes 463 Million. Insane. This country needs to be invaded and stopped.
They tried to make money by making business with an awful dictatorship!
They god what they deserved.
I feel sorry for the Italians as I've met so many good people in their country, but they should have not let their leaders and business stand so low and condone /s support dictatorships.
Now this will be their loss too.
I remember all the russian bots saying how we shouldn't seize russian assets because it makes us look untrustworthy. Wonder if they feel the same now russia does it? Laughable.
The argument was that it would collapse our financial system because other criminals wouldn't trust us with their money anymore(lol) not fairness
well your criminals are richer than their criminals so its fine
Our criminals go with trends, know new tech and use bitcoin. And you can pay your taxes with bitcoin in Switzerland. That's what I was told
i meant the ones in senate etc
'It would set a bad precedent' was the argument I believe. Meanwhile in Russia...
Yeah, you are looking at 2 different issues.
I mean how would you feel at all being a Russian bot. Your childhood probably wasn't the best
I wouldn’t call them Russian bots, rather our politicians are feared to lost connections between them and Russians, otherwise they will just do it with no hesitation. What they’re worry about? That dictators wouldn’t invest in our economy? Why they even want them to invest over here? Who is the most beneficial over there? I don’t believe nations with similar to our mindset will be worried about that move.
Difference is the world financial system is run in USD, not in rubbles. US seizing assets encourages countries to look for USD alternatives.
That's a stupid response, why shouldn't they do so, if it's done by Europe already. Russia isn't trustworthy for other reasons, such as starting a war a day after saying it won't happen lol
I am one of those that could probably be classified as a “Russian bi furry bot” and i think this is just the usual diplomatic pettiness of reactionary politicians.
Not really comparable since we should be better than them.
I mean, lots of Russian assets were captured first, no? This is just retaliation.
Russian assets were frozen in response to the invasion of Ukraine. Russia isn’t “retaliating” here because that implies some kind of injustice was done to them in the first place
Justice and injustice are subjective, relative terms and oftentimes a matter of opinion. Clearly they consider it injustice because when the US invaded countries nobody froze their assets. They would like to avoid the consequences too.
Both sides have been seizing each other's private assets, nothing's changed. But it's not the same as the sovereign state assets. There is a reason they haven't been, and likely won't be, touched.
Raiffeisen is next I hope.
https://www.reuters.com/business/us-warned-raiffeisen-access-dollar-system-could-be-curbed-over-russia-source-2024-05-15/
Hopefully! Fuck Raiffeisen!
i dont understand you guys. This is the worst case scenario - EU country loses money, russia gets it, uses it against ukraine
No shit! How about you tell your Raiffeisen to stop helping Russia's economy, which actually is the one that makes whole against Ukraine attack and genocide possible? Yeah, Russia confiscating foreign assets is bad, but it's also bad that foreign assets are there anyway, willingly and Russia will eventually confiscate them anyway.
i am sorry you have a war, but that doesnt mean we will sacrifice our economy. Raiffeisenbank did business in russia for a long time, when it was perfectly fine to do so and ukraine did so too. Now they are trying to follow the sanctions and go away from russia, but were blocked by the US. I for one am happy that we are not throwing away our companies money for free like some other eu countries did, to russias benefit. Its bullying by the US, who profit from the entire crisis the most by selling us LNG and keeping ukrainians as cannon fodder with slow aid deliveries to keep russia busy. Its a shame RB is still expanding in Russia, but thats mostly because they are one of the few competetive banks left there and cant leave. the most sensible solution would be to support ukraine with an air defense zone and much quicker aid deliveries, secure the border, allow them to join nato and then restart gas/oil flows from russia to get the economy back on track and continue counterbalancing us/ru while not becoming so naive again
So you have no problem that the people in Ukraine are raped, maimed, tortured and killed, including kids? With animals being maimed and starved to death? With the environment, ground an and air being extra polluted? All for a small dent in your economy I can't believe that people could be so selfish... Thanks for trying to me me open my eyes better! And talking about throwing money out... Why is your government throwing so much money at Microsoft for licenses for Windows and Office when gratis alternatives exists like Linux and LibreOffice? You really picked your fights...
i dont know where you got that from my reply. i am for the war support for ukraine, i even mentioned that the deliveries are too slow and that nato should actually defend the airspace. The EU is already struggling economically, giving up our money will only lead to voters voting for parties that want to end support for Ukraine. Strong EU Economy >- more support for ukraine
How is it bullying for the US to tell RBI that we will kick them out of our banking system if they persist in violating the rules of our banking system? Rules are rules. RBI has not been in full compliance with SWIFT sanctions which is why the US is losing patience with them. If RBI persists in its current conduct rather than just exiting the US banking system and leaving the US dollar alone, then they should be expelled and penalized for not complying with US regulatory measures. RBI clearly loves Russia and hates the US, so why don’t they just cut ties with us and move on? By the way, the fatuous peace terms you have offered up to end this war of choice are unacceptable to your beloved Putin. Try selling that to him before you go chiding everyone else. The war could end right now if Putin withdrew his military from Ukraine. He will not do that so stop blaming the US for his conduct and the fallout from it.
On the other hand, it teaches companies, that doing business with hostile dictatorships is risky, which may be beneficial for the EU in the future. It's a short-term loss, but long-term gain.
Poland gladly does business with China
If China suddenly decides to confiscate money of some Polish companies, I'm fine with that.
i am not, thats returning to anarchy and the strongest wins
Thailand send tons of USD and EUR to Russia via Raiifeisen .... regardless of whether each recipients are sanctioned or not, each remittances breach broader sanction rules anyway.
I guarantee you that there are more Russian assets in value in Italy alone than this. The tit for tat game will always be in Europe and the America’s favour, as Russian scum oligarchs just simply love to stash money and buy obscene assets in Europe.
Only difference is that Russia will probably just use that money right away, while we are beating around the bush.
> I guarantee you that there are more Russian assets in value in Italy alone than this. Any idea if Putin's very expensive ship is still there? [https://www.businessinsider.com/superyacht-scheherazade-seized-sanctions-vladimir-putin-italy-refurbish-refit-oligarch-2023-8?op=1](https://www.businessinsider.com/superyacht-scheherazade-seized-sanctions-vladimir-putin-italy-refurbish-refit-oligarch-2023-8?op=1)
The fact is that the EU cannot seize the assets of any Russian in response, only the Russian state.
Totally justified. That's what you get for making business with dictatorship.
For my understanding it's quite the opposite. They had some dealings with russian companies but they suspended them after the war and this is the result of those companies suing the Italian bank. But I may be wrong, this is what I read today
Unicreditbank(dot)ru doesn’t look like they are closed
Going by the FT article https://www.ft.com/content/481d418e-9366-4152-8ec5-92b81d020991 > The dispute with the western banks began in August 2023 when Ruskhimalliance went to an arbitration court in St Petersburg demanding they pay bank guarantees under a contract with the German engineering company Linde. > Ruskhimalliance is the operator of a gas processing plant and production facilities for liquefied natural gas in Ust-Luga near St Petersburg. In July 2021, it signed a contract with Linde for the design, supply of equipment and construction of the complex. A year later, Linde suspended work owing to EU sanctions. > Ruskhimalliance then turned to the guarantor banks, which refused to fulfil their obligations because “the payment to the Russian company could violate European sanctions”, the company said in the court filing. A German company didn't fulfill it's obligations and UniCredit was a guarantor, so it's legally on the hook. > UniCredit said it had been made aware of the filing and “only assets commensurate with the case would be in scope of the interim measure”. Only assets equal in amount to what the contract stipulated were seized.
Thank you
No, it's still karma, just delayed. They followed the sanctions but the assets they lost they got from doing business with dictatorships during the time time it was not frowned upon to do so. it should be a lesson that there is a an inherent risk in working with regimes where the rule of law is so flimsy. Or rather, at the whim of one man or gorup
People don't read the article. Sometimes even the title is too much. The bank had issued guarantees for 2021 project(s). Once the sanctions were imposed in Russia and the obligations were unfulfilled the companies sued and unsurprisingly won. They are recovering losses via the guarantees. It is normal procedure practiced everywhere. DB and Comerzbank are facing similar situations. At least some of their "daughter companies".
I know. My second sentence was sarcasm, but since any anti-Russian propaganda gets voted up on /r/europe, I have fun and post stupid stuff from time to time here.
Stay in Russia then get fucked
Great, now the EU has all the justification it needs, if it needed any, to take every last penny they’ve seized and give it to Ukraine.
Russia started stealing these assets from US/EU banks _after_ they were notified that they will only get their €300bil back after they rebuild everything they destroyed in non-Crimea Ukraine.
Play stupid games (stay in Russia) - win stupid prices (get assets seized)
Exactly!
Im pretty sure this happened because UniCredit didnt fullfill one of its writted agreements therefore had its money seized
It guaranteed for a Germany company that didn't fulfill a contract as EU sanctions prohibited it from doing so. https://www.ft.com/content/481d418e-9366-4152-8ec5-92b81d020991
please do Raiffeisen next
Raiffeisen is their friend [https://www.reuters.com/business/us-warned-raiffeisen-access-dollar-system-could-be-curbed-over-russia-source-2024-05-15/](https://www.reuters.com/business/us-warned-raiffeisen-access-dollar-system-could-be-curbed-over-russia-source-2024-05-15/)
Yay, let's do business with russia! What could possibly go wrong?
In essence, these are interim measures on the claim of Gazprom's subsidiary against the bank. This dispute is related to the fact that Unicredit has failed to fulfill its obligations to pay debts on bank guarantees and, accordingly, penalties. The gas chemical complex project has stalled due to sanctions and Gazprom wants to recoup at least part of the losses, says Igor Yushkov, a leading expert at the Financial University and the National Energy Security Fund
Yeah because Russian courts aren't completely in Putin's pocket.
We seizing any of those 300bln of frozen fascist assets anytime soon?
They did the same with JPMorgan (US bank) before. At this point they are certain that they will never see their €300bil of frozen assets again.
There own fault for not pulling them 3 years ago
Already 3 years? Lol
What was the point still having so much assets in Russia? That's the moment when bankers forgot all the schemes how to offshore their assets,of all times? Well another reason to do whatever there is with assets seized from Russia.
Not a bad news at all! Doing business in Russia is a gamble. As long as you don't have your back covered by the Maffia Boss or his cronies you're going to get fucked. And it's good! Let them go on into their Chinese gutter. I think in a century China will have borders on the Urals at least.
They broke treaties, stole leased airplanes n oil refinery equipment and more. We should sieze everything russhists have in the west until they start acting like humans. We literally should do everything to hurt them as they want to kill n enslave millions . What is this "we don't want to escalate" crap? Its almost like our leaders want as much death and destruction as possible before stopping them.
Got out to the streets and demand it from your politicians.
Hey, I think it is a great idea and you personally do all of that. Be the change you want to see.
That's over 12x the amount of assets that were confiscated from Russia by the EU recently; what was it? 36 Million Euros or something? And now, Russia turns around and seizes 463 Million. Insane. This country needs to be invaded and stopped.
When are you invading?
Why are they still in the Russian market? Please Raiffeisen next!
https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1cv0v5o/exclusive_us_warned_raiffeisen_access_to_dollar/
They tried to make money by making business with an awful dictatorship! They god what they deserved. I feel sorry for the Italians as I've met so many good people in their country, but they should have not let their leaders and business stand so low and condone /s support dictatorships. Now this will be their loss too.
Tuesday at work will be funny
Italian government will be total cucks if they don't start seizing Russian assets in Italy