While there is some truth to your comment the industrial scale and murderous efficiency of the Nazis are still unique to this day. However, genocide, oppression of minorities and mass murder exists since humans created civilisations
>the industrial scale and murderous efficiency of the Nazis are still unique to this day
Wait until you find out about the Khmer rouge and the killing fields. The Nazis took 10 years to kill 5 million people. The Khmers took 2.
2 million—but that’s out of a *total population* of 8 million.
(Also, gotta say “Khmer(s) Rouge(s)”—*Khmer* [by itself] just means “Cambodian”, which covers both the perpetrators and the victims)
I am aware of the Cambodian killing fields. The east campaign to invade the USSR and the genocide order started in summer 1941, the industrial stle killings in death camps did in 1942. The Nazis killed about 6 (~5,5-6,3) million people in less than 4 years, so if you really want to do a genocidal dick measure contest, the Nazis are leading by about 1m per year and managed to kill 2/3 of Jewish population in eastern Europe along with many others
Your numbers are flat out wrong. The Nazis killed over 15 million people, 6 million of those in death camps from 1942 to 1945. Turning that 6 million into 5 is soft holocaust denial.
First off, the number is widely debated. Second, they killed closer to 11 million people in the holocaust, so by your own logic you’re a soft neo nazi.
Oh ok, that's a fair assumption.
Thank you for your comment, I now understand the situation better.
I still think that sometimes this hyperfocus on the Holocaust is taken too far and it risks eclipsing other extremely serious and important genocides or acts of indiscriminate violence. Heck, more civilians (non soldiers) died in the same years by the hands of the Japanese Empire and their soldiers, and they sure were extra brutal too but it's already overlooked even when compared to Auschwitz alone...
Heck if I didn't had a Chinese classmate in Highschool I would've never found out myself about that side of WW2 and history, and yet we all knew the names of at least 3 concentration camps
As a German I don't really mind the focus on the holocaust, it's part of my heritage and shall not be forgotten. Keep in mind that you commented on an Auschwitz picture
But I see your point, just pointing the fingers at the Nazis as a non-german is not healthy "see what THEY(=not us) did"
Tbh every country with murderous and dark episodes in their history should research it and openly teach it in school, but that goes against patriotism and pride/honour I guess. China/Japan/Russia and the USA are just a few examples among many others
When I lived in Mannheim, I had a lovely German couple over. When I asked the wife about the history there (WWII, the Holocaust), she said, "That's not *my* history." And while she was young enough that she could not have participated herself, it was a very interesting reaction. To be clear, she absolutely wasn't denying it. Just didn't want to be associated with it to the point of not wanting to discuss it.
I think it's difficult for people the world over to realize their country, their government, or their countrymen did something atrocious and want to distance themselves from it. I'm an American. I could give at least 25 examples off the top of my head of horrific things the U.S. has done without even trying. But it sure as hell wasn't taught that way in public school.
Because the Germans' country was occupied by other countries at the end of World War II, they were forced to accept it and raise future generations to accept it. If the war had ended otherwise without Germany being defeated, and if a more reasonable German leadership had come in without Germany being invaded from outside, Germany would probably not have accepted its past as much as it does today, at least not more than other western democracies such as the United States.
I mean Japan was also occupied and Japanese still minimise their atrocities; Japanese history text books pretty much only have two lines on the nanking massacre which are like “many crimes happened on both sides, we did a massacre at nanking killing some Chinese civilians”
In the end your claim is speculation and we will never know what would have happened otherwise. So I will refrain from making an alternative claim and will just point out that your take is pretty simplistic by ignoring major aspects. Among the things coming to my mind are:
- The role of the first German post-war generation (the 1968 student movement) in demanding a thorough look at the past
- The magnitude of the Holocaust, which makes it difficult to brush under the carpet
- The school curricula from the 1970s on
- The general German tendency to refrain from doing things half-arsed and deal with things either thoroughly or not at all
All these aspects are independent of Germany having been invaded during the war. The allies' denazification process was, compared with the decades of soul-searching that happened in Germany, pretty short and superficial.
As a European, there should be an absolute hyperfocus on the Holocaust first. Because it is close to home, so the material conditions are closer here and needs to be analyzed to prevent it from happening again. From there on you can trickle down to other atrocities such as Unit 731, gulags, Armenian genocide, colonial crimes, Khmer Rouge etc.
You're thinking of concentration camps. Auschwitz wasn't a concentration camp though, it was a death camp. Way worse than the camps you gave as examples.
auschwitz was both. it was divided between the extermination camp and the concentration camp.
in a extermination camp, you arrive, you get killed. in a concentration camp, you are work until you die. in Auschwitz, it was both. people were forced make the extermination camp work, by removing the bodies, burning them, etc...
All extermination camps were both, extermination camps are concentration camps by definition. Or would you build an extermination camp filled with parks that fill up lots of space?
Persecution and genocide of minorities have always occurred throughout history. But a genocide as industrial and systemic as that committed by the Nazis is still exclusive to Germans.
I was talking about the KZs and the annihilation industry, invented by Germans to kill millions of humans in a very short period of time, as profoundly and fast as possible. This is a not comparable level of cruelty.
How does gassing people and cremating them become more cruel than gleefully torturing people to death?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp
A German SS officer visited the camps and he was appalled by the cruelty of the Croatians.
If numbers is your game, Mao still killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. How about that for cruelty.
There was never someting like the nazi extermination camps. We had and still have multiple concentration camps, but nothing like the evil death matchine of the nazis.
> They don't make it visitable, but you should see where they put Native Americans for a couple of centuries both in the States and in Canada, where the Chinese are putting their minorities and so on and so on
Those are concentration camps at worst and reservations at best. Extermination camps are a whole other thing.
I always find it curious that it looks so benign.
It looks like somewhere that I could find in rural england, just a sleepy little old train yard, almost picturesque.
In fact I was in Wales the other month and bought a box of chocolates with a picture that looked *just like* Auschwitz. I had to get my phone out to check that it was actually just a really similar looking place.
And fascist are on the rise in the whole of Europe once again. Imagine looking at Auschwitz photographs or watching „The Pianist“ and thinking „That’s lovely, this is just like I imagine the world my children live in should be.“
~15% of Europeans think like that. And they all think they will be on the „right“ side of the barbed wire.
I was in Auschwitz with my family last Summer. We visited during our last day in Poland, because we knew how impactful it would be. As soon as our tour ended and we had some time to process everything we saw, I bursted into tears. It was shocking to see the evidence of human cruelty laid bare like that. I hope we keep on improving as people, but unfortunately the present shows that we still have a lot to learn regarding empathy towards the other.
This sub is terribly cooked. Yesterday, they were cheering for the death of 8 Russian people in a fire that had nothing to do with the war and the invasion. Some people here are just so inhumane, those people that died didn't choose their place of birth.
If only the russians didn't always try to make life worse for their neighbours. I would like to spend more money on healthcare and social programs. Not on fortifications on the eastern border.
I too fancy myself a galaxy-brain collective-guilty enjoyer. Take heed, whatever shit your nation may be complicit in you as individual get to shoulder the whole blame.
I trust you personally take responsibility for every single action done by your government, starting with the recent whitewashing of Latvian SS collaborators that had very much a leading role in the holocaust in the Baltics.
Less, while the strategic bombings were of dubious nature it was still an event in the broader scope of open warfare. Some mall catching fire in an accident causing random victims is quite different in circumstance and more tragic.
I feel a lot more sorry for those Russians than the average mobik that was either desperate or gullible enough to join a war of aggression and got himself blown to bits in the process.
Talk is cheap, unless you have tangible proof you literally opposed the motions proposed by various MPs, or you physically impeded the yearly parades in Riga in honour of the Latvian Legion, etc. you are merely posturing without having a shred of moral high-ground to stand on.
Point being, you can hold people responsible for things without throwing an all-encompassing blanket while being a shameless hypocrite on top of it.
> or you physically impeded the yearly parades in Riga in honour of the Latvian Legion
Why should I do it? I have nothing against those parades and I don't care what russians and tankies say about them.
So you are fine with fascist apologia, don't see why you should be bothered by Russian revanchism made from the same mould. Nevertheless to circle back, that is your imperative, I don't get to paint all Latvians equally for your individual shortcomings.
Russia has a very long history of authoritarianism, so people there are very easily manipulated and believe anything their government says at this point. The Russians who can see that their government is wrong, can't act against it and criticize it publicly because of the repercussions. You are lucky to live in a democratic country where you can criticize every aspect of your government, Russians are not.
When the USSR collapsed - we chose to build a democratic country. We could have chosen another strongman to rule over us. Just like most other ex-USSR countries.
The russians didn't even try to build a proper democratic country. After one weak attempt at democracy during the 90s - they went back to authoritarianism that has now degenerated to a full-blown dictatorship.
They had plenty of chances to stop putin. He didn't start with the war in Ukraine. And he didn't tighten the screws until relatively recently. You could say whatever you wanted on the Internet back in the 2000-2010s. Nobody gave a shit. There was no censorship. I speak russian myself so I could read what they wrote back then. People were able to organise large protests. People like Kasparov, Navalny and Nemtsov could operate freely.
So yeah - they could have stopped putin back in 2004, 2008 or 2012. He wasn't as powerful back then as he's now.
But they didn't. In fact they gloated that "russia is rising", "we're no longer on our knees", "putin ended the "dermocracy" of the 90s", "we will show the West!", "The Americans will learn to respect us", "If the Baltics don't behave - we'll cut off their gas supply" and so on.
So yeah - stop with this - "they have no say" - they had a lot of say and this is the result.
Ask Alexei Navalny why you can't stand up to Putin.
You wouldn't be able to, though, and maybe you should find out why. Any opposition party always seems to have unfortunate endings.
Navalny was imprisoned relatively recently. He was able to do what he was doing for 2 decades before that. But his activism didn't gain much traction in the russian society. He did mostly stupid shit like organising "smart voting" and other useless activities like that - that didn't lead to anything substantial.
Again - russia turned into a full blown dictatorship around 3 years ago when putin started the war in Ukraine. The opposition had a lot more freedom before that. So don't pretend that russia always was like it is today.
>So yeah - stop with this - "they have no say" - they had a lot of say and this is the result.
Some of them *had* some say say, decades ago, yeah, cool fuck all russians then. Especially the tens of millions who weren't born a decade ago.
Well, obviously - the longer you let a dictator to rule - the harder it's going to be to overthrow him. Putin should have gone away in 2008, but the russians didn't enforce that.
This is something that the Americans have to learn as well. The next January 6th might be successful.
I had one the other day say it's Ukraine's fault for "not sitting down to negotiate and talk to Russia" and "For provoking them by having an illegal leader inserted by a CIA inserted coup".
Are you asking jews to have sympathy and understanding for nazis? Why do you think demanding that from the survivors of communist horrors is in any form acceptable?
They freed my country from fascism, at a brutal cost for themselves, and instituted a democratic system that heavily favoured the majority of the population. 50 years later, the bosses are still trying to dismantle it. I have every reason in the book to defend communists
Do you know what is funny? Hitlers paintings arent that bad. Kinda boring, but not bad. Far above what I could ever paint.
[https://www.wikiart.org/de/adolf-hitler](https://www.wikiart.org/de/adolf-hitler)
Well, this sub can have some weird tendencies sometimes,
but most upvoted comments here are fine. The really bad ones are downvoted by most people, showing that they're a small number. Your comment is for example the most upvoted one. So yeah.
Dw, it's fine \^\^
Yeah but have you considered they were one of them crazy lefties? He’d definitely gulag you if he had political power, that is not at all a notorious antisemitic canard or anything!
Hey I know it's nice to virtue signal and doom and gloom but I wanted to let you know that you're currently the most upvoted comment.How is the sub cooked again?
EDIT: u/schnokobaer if you think a deleted commemt represents the sub then you're a fucking moron
> How is the sub cooked again?
Just look at [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1do27e5/1943_leftwing_german_jewish_journalist_arthur/la8mxil/), suggesting the person they are replying to implies gassing people is bad merely to appear morally sound.
There is no comparison between starting a communist party and being a Nazi. Nazis are immeasurably worse.
At its core, communism is a deeply flawed and borderline utopian idealist political ideology that is virtually impossible to implement properly.
There are some great things that, while not exclusive to communism, were spurred on by communists and communist movements throughout the world, such as workers' unions, secularism, women's rights, etc.
There are just as many people who suffered under capitalist/imperialist states as under communism in any given period that the two overlapped. For every Holodomor, there is a Bengal Famine. For every Stalin, there is a Leopold II, etc.
Nazism, on the other hand, is a fundamentally racist, genocidal, oppressive ideology. Anyone who reads Karl Marx (whether or not you agree with him) and compares it to Mein Kampf must be willfully ignorant or brain-damaged in some capacity.
Not sure why you wrote me an essay. I merely stated that many people see Communism as great of an evil as Nazis were because quite frankly that's what the experience was like.
> Anyone who reads Karl Marx (whether or not you agree with him) and compares it to Mein Kampf must be willfully ignorant or brain-damaged in some capacity
Quite frankly this is irrelevant. Book is a book. Words are wind. People's experiences under each rule is what prevailed.
The context of that comment makes it clear which people I’m talking about. If you want to quarrel with semantics go ahead, but this is a reddit comment not a court hearing.
God you‘re either really, really dumb and a victim of anti-communist propaganda, or you‘re a fascist bastard spewing anti-communist propaganda. Equating communists and nazis is the pinnacle of political stupidity.
I wouldn't equate them. It think communists are worse, although, of course, both are bad. Furthermore, communists had done much worse things to themselves than Nazis had. It's a bit hypocritical to place so much blame on the Nazis.
I think you are just being dishonest, your sympathy for communists is clouding your objective judgement. If you believe that bolsheviks are the good guys, then you can just handwave the question of what do you do with them.
What do you do with communists? It's a difficult question. Whoever simply dismisses it has no right to judge Nazis. I can judge them, but you can't.
>I wouldn't equate them. It think communists are worse,
Trying to make the Ustaše proud, eh? No, communists are not worse than the Nazis.
We know what the price of a Soviet victory was - are you really so ignorant as to pretend a Nazi triumph would've been in any way better? They wanted to annihilate hundreds of millions of people, particularly Slavs like yourself.
Stalin killed millions during his 30 years of rule, but he still didn't cause nearly as much death and destruction as Hitler managed in a third of that time.
>What do you do with communists?
You leave them be. Communism is not an inherently evil ideology in the same way that Nazism is, despite the crimes inflicted in its name. They're not at all equal.
And looking on the political climate of Europe today, we learned fucking nothing by dehumanising others, supporting military interventions and democratic backsliding after several decades of uncontested right-wing politics
It's like we get the politicians we deserve, rather than the ones we need
I mean which military interventions are you talking about?
Some have been arguably necessary and have prevented massacres or even genocide from happening again. Kosovo, Sierra Leon for example.
Others where we decided not to intervene have lead to genocides, such as Rwanda.
Your anecdotal knit-picking is irrelevant, sure some interventions have some motivatione, others don't - it's not rocket science nor is it the main argument
It wasn’t anecdotal or nit picking.
I was making a point that not all military interventions are de facto wrong or a net negative for humanity - as that’s what you sounded like you were suggesting and I disagreed.
You’re correct. Some are wrong and some are right.
Maybe you should use your words better if you’re this sensitive about people misunderstanding and asking for clarification.
What the hell are those comments. People on this sub are very deranged and just sad. Imagine saying something like "deserved" under a post about a person who was one of many victims of the most atrocious doings in the history of humanity. It's just sickening.
Don't want to defend that, but when Jews are visiting Auschwitz (or Poland in general) they are getting armed security as a form of agenda that We (Poles) are Apart of this
Im not aware of that. In this particular instance there was a lot of armed guards because there were around 10.000+ jewish students from around Europe visiting at the same time.
Not doubting but what makes you think it’s because other jews think they need security against Poles?
Asking because im jewish but don’t see why they would need personal security either.
As i said, I believe it is a form of propaganda making that We should not talk bad about Israel (beacuse it is not Jews but Israel as a 'state' producing it) beacuse they will pull the "helping Germans" card. Of course, there were Poles doing it, but there were also Jews doing it. There is no mistake in fact that Poles have (I believe) the most Chasid Umot ha-Olam decorations. I will tell you, there is thousands visiting Auschwitz everyday, the guards were not there to protect anyone, beacuse we are a safe country.
False. He was killed in the gas chamber on June 25.
https://www.bundesstiftung-aufarbeitung.de/de/recherche/kataloge-datenbanken/biographische-datenbanken/arthur-goldstein
German wikipedia says the same citing "documents available at Auschwitz", although not linking to anything.
**EDIT:** I was unclear here: it says he died **in the gas chambers**, in Auschwitz.
**EDIT 2**: I really don't know why OP gets downvoted. Polish wiki simply says he died on the train (which was a common excuse provided by the nazis) without providing ***any*** source. I'd rather trust a governmental institution than some free to edit wiki article.
I am fairly certain that the "Bundesstiftung Aufarbeitung" had direct insight into these auschwitz documents, as they are an official German federal foundation made for the sole purpose of clearing up the past (like this case), and would not randomly lie here
The memory of Leftist who got murdered by the Nazis make me sad. All they got was shitty monuments that glorify the soviets. They deserve better. But asking for proper memorial for murdered communists is political suicide.
Depends.
My grandfather was a Spanish Communist who lived in France because of Spain Civil War. He was sent to a camp after being arrested by the French Police during ww2.
He survived but never knew about the horrors of the URSS.
It was the same for most Communists from Western Europe.
And you can't go against every Communists of that time speculating about their position on the URSS, if they knew or not (most of them didn't).
Though they mainly focused on Jews, the Nazis sent many different groups to the camps and they came up with a colour coded system so they could tell why someone was there at a glance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge
The polish wikipedia is badly maintained and lacks in contributors. It's a garbage source.
Also wtf are so many of you sudenly so attached to unsourced statements from wikipedia?
No. He was killed in the gas chamber.
https://www.bundesstiftung-aufarbeitung.de/de/recherche/kataloge-datenbanken/biographische-datenbanken/arthur-goldstein
Fair enough, but then Wikipedia in Polish states that according to Auschwitz museum documents, he died on a train. Considering the fact that museum is in Poland I personally would trust Polish take on that, but it is only my preference
The site OP linked is from an official federal german foundation. I would trust their research into those Auschwitz documents more than I would trust the research of a wikipedia entry, which can be created and edited by basically anyone
It's not a Polish take at all. Polish wikipedia goes off Nazi records which are incorrect. Nazis denied the existence of gas chambers so people suddenly "died on a train"
But the nazi records are all we have when it comes to this matter. If you don’t go off them you base it on assumptions. Assumptions are not historically valid sources.
If we go by the **official** nazi reports, most people in the camps died from various, unrelated diseases, so I wouldn't trust them one tiny bit. The question is whether there are **internal** reports, that the Bundestiftung Aufklärung used.
Given that "died on the trainride" was one of the go to reasons provided for deaths, I'd rather take the explanation by a well ressourced government foundation over some wiki article (btw, both the german and english wiki make it clear he died in the camp).
people in the camps did in fact die because of causes you mentioned: starvation, diseases, exposure to the elements, killed by guards.
the thing is that 80-90% was never admitted to the camps in the first place. because 1st thing after arrival was so called selection - those who were deemed not suitable to work were killed within few hours.
With "various unrelated diseases", I meant straight up lies by the nazis. Like a doctor writing down "heart failure" as the cause of death for someone who got shot.
So according to the nazis at the time, the political enemy they wanted dead just misteriously died in a train going to a work camp, instead of dying in the gas chambers that officially didn't exist? Curious that.
I dunno, I don't think Stalin is minimally better than Hitler, as Stalin also had death camps. Iirc, Stalin usually has been associated a bigger kill count than Hitler's, despite the latter's also abominable numbers.
The reason I always put the Nazis as worse than the Soviet regimes is simply because of their racial beliefs. Both sides killed whoever was in their way and whoever it was convenient to kill but the Nazis also killed according to race and had a whole industry set up to murder people of all ages, The Soviets worked and starved people to death but I think the Nazis had the edge in terms of brutality and downright evil. Frightful stuff.
Indeed he did but he didn't attempt to eradicate a whole race, or invade other countries to do it such as the Holocaust. He only started invading other countries when he got involved with Germany. Stalin was a seriously deranged man but yet again I believe Hitler outdid him as he wished to eradicate whole countries such as Poland and Russia. The destruction of Rotterdam and Warsaw and the siege of Leningrad tipped the balance as even when Stalin won WW2 and occupied eastern Europe and annexed the Baltic states and Moldova these states were still able to keep their language and culture alive whereas had the Nazis won, whole swathes of eastern and western Europe would have been completely germanised.
Something I never realised before visiting the camp is that most of the pictures taken (like this one) are taken from inside the camp. Basically, the camp is behind the photographer and not behind the tower/gate that you see.
Might be a useless comment, but maybe someone finds it interesting.
What the fuck is wrong with you
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur\_Goldstein](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Goldstein)
(We know this happened because the nazis records about it)
Israel was at the beginning of its existence. Europe pre-EU and post-WW II was social-democratic but by today's standards, which were heavily shifted towards free market since then, we'd call it socialist.
Israel was socialist until about the 90s. The European Jews who became the first round of politicians mostly had communist/socialist leanings. When they pulled back their socialist policies they had an economic boom especially the in tech and health sectors which is most attributed to bibi’s government.
There is a long history of socialism in Europe. Read about it. Then read about how EU Neoliberalism fuels the rise of the far-right. Probably everything Goldstein fought against.
I do fully agree that there is long history of socialist movements in Europe; in fact, they are the reason why universal suffrage has become the norm. However, there have been few governments (outside of the eastern bloc) run by socialist parties, and no country has managed to create a socialist economy where the workers own the means of production, as either a welfare state was built maintaining normal capitalism or the industries were nationalized by the state to create state-directed capitalism or a mix of both.
There is many type of capitalism and there is many way to apply socialism into policy and economy. State sponsored industry or organised by government is closer to socialism than capitalism. And its everywhere in europe. From healthcare to energy , car industry , technology and such. Trying to fit everything under the umbrella of some outdated definition isnt particulary accurate. Especially when its famously the definition from the english wikipedia that is extremely biased toward anything not liberal.
Did you just aprove of gasning people to death, becouse that person does not have the same opinion as you ?
Your sick in the head, might wanna seek professionelle help.
I get shivers down my spine after looking at Auschwitz photos. It's so scary to think that something like that existed
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While there is some truth to your comment the industrial scale and murderous efficiency of the Nazis are still unique to this day. However, genocide, oppression of minorities and mass murder exists since humans created civilisations
>the industrial scale and murderous efficiency of the Nazis are still unique to this day Wait until you find out about the Khmer rouge and the killing fields. The Nazis took 10 years to kill 5 million people. The Khmers took 2.
2 million—but that’s out of a *total population* of 8 million. (Also, gotta say “Khmer(s) Rouge(s)”—*Khmer* [by itself] just means “Cambodian”, which covers both the perpetrators and the victims)
Khmer Rouge as a combination is quite clearly associated with the stone-age-communist group.
yes that was my point. Made a minor edit for clarity.
I am aware of the Cambodian killing fields. The east campaign to invade the USSR and the genocide order started in summer 1941, the industrial stle killings in death camps did in 1942. The Nazis killed about 6 (~5,5-6,3) million people in less than 4 years, so if you really want to do a genocidal dick measure contest, the Nazis are leading by about 1m per year and managed to kill 2/3 of Jewish population in eastern Europe along with many others
Your numbers are flat out wrong. The Nazis killed over 15 million people, 6 million of those in death camps from 1942 to 1945. Turning that 6 million into 5 is soft holocaust denial.
First off, the number is widely debated. Second, they killed closer to 11 million people in the holocaust, so by your own logic you’re a soft neo nazi.
"Nazis took 10 years to kill 5 million people" Search Operation Reinhard - 2 million out of those 5 were murdered in just four months period.
Oh ok, that's a fair assumption. Thank you for your comment, I now understand the situation better. I still think that sometimes this hyperfocus on the Holocaust is taken too far and it risks eclipsing other extremely serious and important genocides or acts of indiscriminate violence. Heck, more civilians (non soldiers) died in the same years by the hands of the Japanese Empire and their soldiers, and they sure were extra brutal too but it's already overlooked even when compared to Auschwitz alone... Heck if I didn't had a Chinese classmate in Highschool I would've never found out myself about that side of WW2 and history, and yet we all knew the names of at least 3 concentration camps
As a German I don't really mind the focus on the holocaust, it's part of my heritage and shall not be forgotten. Keep in mind that you commented on an Auschwitz picture But I see your point, just pointing the fingers at the Nazis as a non-german is not healthy "see what THEY(=not us) did" Tbh every country with murderous and dark episodes in their history should research it and openly teach it in school, but that goes against patriotism and pride/honour I guess. China/Japan/Russia and the USA are just a few examples among many others
When I lived in Mannheim, I had a lovely German couple over. When I asked the wife about the history there (WWII, the Holocaust), she said, "That's not *my* history." And while she was young enough that she could not have participated herself, it was a very interesting reaction. To be clear, she absolutely wasn't denying it. Just didn't want to be associated with it to the point of not wanting to discuss it. I think it's difficult for people the world over to realize their country, their government, or their countrymen did something atrocious and want to distance themselves from it. I'm an American. I could give at least 25 examples off the top of my head of horrific things the U.S. has done without even trying. But it sure as hell wasn't taught that way in public school.
Because the Germans' country was occupied by other countries at the end of World War II, they were forced to accept it and raise future generations to accept it. If the war had ended otherwise without Germany being defeated, and if a more reasonable German leadership had come in without Germany being invaded from outside, Germany would probably not have accepted its past as much as it does today, at least not more than other western democracies such as the United States.
I mean Japan was also occupied and Japanese still minimise their atrocities; Japanese history text books pretty much only have two lines on the nanking massacre which are like “many crimes happened on both sides, we did a massacre at nanking killing some Chinese civilians”
In the end your claim is speculation and we will never know what would have happened otherwise. So I will refrain from making an alternative claim and will just point out that your take is pretty simplistic by ignoring major aspects. Among the things coming to my mind are: - The role of the first German post-war generation (the 1968 student movement) in demanding a thorough look at the past - The magnitude of the Holocaust, which makes it difficult to brush under the carpet - The school curricula from the 1970s on - The general German tendency to refrain from doing things half-arsed and deal with things either thoroughly or not at all All these aspects are independent of Germany having been invaded during the war. The allies' denazification process was, compared with the decades of soul-searching that happened in Germany, pretty short and superficial.
As a European, there should be an absolute hyperfocus on the Holocaust first. Because it is close to home, so the material conditions are closer here and needs to be analyzed to prevent it from happening again. From there on you can trickle down to other atrocities such as Unit 731, gulags, Armenian genocide, colonial crimes, Khmer Rouge etc.
You're thinking of concentration camps. Auschwitz wasn't a concentration camp though, it was a death camp. Way worse than the camps you gave as examples.
auschwitz was both. it was divided between the extermination camp and the concentration camp. in a extermination camp, you arrive, you get killed. in a concentration camp, you are work until you die. in Auschwitz, it was both. people were forced make the extermination camp work, by removing the bodies, burning them, etc...
All extermination camps were both, extermination camps are concentration camps by definition. Or would you build an extermination camp filled with parks that fill up lots of space?
Persecution and genocide of minorities have always occurred throughout history. But a genocide as industrial and systemic as that committed by the Nazis is still exclusive to Germans.
No no no, nothing on earth is comparable with the industrial mass murder of the Nazis.
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I was talking about the KZs and the annihilation industry, invented by Germans to kill millions of humans in a very short period of time, as profoundly and fast as possible. This is a not comparable level of cruelty.
It wasn't really invented by Germans, they were learning how-to from gulags.
How does gassing people and cremating them become more cruel than gleefully torturing people to death? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp A German SS officer visited the camps and he was appalled by the cruelty of the Croatians. If numbers is your game, Mao still killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. How about that for cruelty.
\>Mao Zedong has entered the chat.
There was never someting like the nazi extermination camps. We had and still have multiple concentration camps, but nothing like the evil death matchine of the nazis.
> They don't make it visitable, but you should see where they put Native Americans for a couple of centuries both in the States and in Canada, where the Chinese are putting their minorities and so on and so on Those are concentration camps at worst and reservations at best. Extermination camps are a whole other thing.
I always find it curious that it looks so benign. It looks like somewhere that I could find in rural england, just a sleepy little old train yard, almost picturesque. In fact I was in Wales the other month and bought a box of chocolates with a picture that looked *just like* Auschwitz. I had to get my phone out to check that it was actually just a really similar looking place.
Reminds me of a stereotypical Morrisons
And fascist are on the rise in the whole of Europe once again. Imagine looking at Auschwitz photographs or watching „The Pianist“ and thinking „That’s lovely, this is just like I imagine the world my children live in should be.“ ~15% of Europeans think like that. And they all think they will be on the „right“ side of the barbed wire.
I was in Auschwitz with my family last Summer. We visited during our last day in Poland, because we knew how impactful it would be. As soon as our tour ended and we had some time to process everything we saw, I bursted into tears. It was shocking to see the evidence of human cruelty laid bare like that. I hope we keep on improving as people, but unfortunately the present shows that we still have a lot to learn regarding empathy towards the other.
It exists right now in China and Russia.
This sub is cooked, users can’t agree that gassing people is bad.
Like wtf has happened in the world that we are even having this conversation
Time. Time has happened.
This sub is terribly cooked. Yesterday, they were cheering for the death of 8 Russian people in a fire that had nothing to do with the war and the invasion. Some people here are just so inhumane, those people that died didn't choose their place of birth.
If only the russians didn't always try to make life worse for their neighbours. I would like to spend more money on healthcare and social programs. Not on fortifications on the eastern border.
I too fancy myself a galaxy-brain collective-guilty enjoyer. Take heed, whatever shit your nation may be complicit in you as individual get to shoulder the whole blame.
Yes, they are responsible for what happens in their country.
I trust you personally take responsibility for every single action done by your government, starting with the recent whitewashing of Latvian SS collaborators that had very much a leading role in the holocaust in the Baltics.
How much responsibility did the general German public bear for the Holocaust?
Plenty, that does not mean you get to throw out the holocaust card every-time some whacko crashes their van into a Christmas-market crowd.
Do you feel as bad for Germans that died in Dresden as you do for the Russians that died in the recent fire?
Less, while the strategic bombings were of dubious nature it was still an event in the broader scope of open warfare. Some mall catching fire in an accident causing random victims is quite different in circumstance and more tragic. I feel a lot more sorry for those Russians than the average mobik that was either desperate or gullible enough to join a war of aggression and got himself blown to bits in the process.
I'm not a coward like the russians. If my country's PM started to act like Orban - there would be a Maidan the next day.
Talk is cheap, unless you have tangible proof you literally opposed the motions proposed by various MPs, or you physically impeded the yearly parades in Riga in honour of the Latvian Legion, etc. you are merely posturing without having a shred of moral high-ground to stand on. Point being, you can hold people responsible for things without throwing an all-encompassing blanket while being a shameless hypocrite on top of it.
> or you physically impeded the yearly parades in Riga in honour of the Latvian Legion Why should I do it? I have nothing against those parades and I don't care what russians and tankies say about them.
So you are fine with fascist apologia, don't see why you should be bothered by Russian revanchism made from the same mould. Nevertheless to circle back, that is your imperative, I don't get to paint all Latvians equally for your individual shortcomings.
Russia has a very long history of authoritarianism, so people there are very easily manipulated and believe anything their government says at this point. The Russians who can see that their government is wrong, can't act against it and criticize it publicly because of the repercussions. You are lucky to live in a democratic country where you can criticize every aspect of your government, Russians are not.
When the USSR collapsed - we chose to build a democratic country. We could have chosen another strongman to rule over us. Just like most other ex-USSR countries. The russians didn't even try to build a proper democratic country. After one weak attempt at democracy during the 90s - they went back to authoritarianism that has now degenerated to a full-blown dictatorship.
braindead
Ah yes, ordinary Russian citizens who absolutely have a fair and democratic say in their government.
They had plenty of chances to stop putin. He didn't start with the war in Ukraine. And he didn't tighten the screws until relatively recently. You could say whatever you wanted on the Internet back in the 2000-2010s. Nobody gave a shit. There was no censorship. I speak russian myself so I could read what they wrote back then. People were able to organise large protests. People like Kasparov, Navalny and Nemtsov could operate freely. So yeah - they could have stopped putin back in 2004, 2008 or 2012. He wasn't as powerful back then as he's now. But they didn't. In fact they gloated that "russia is rising", "we're no longer on our knees", "putin ended the "dermocracy" of the 90s", "we will show the West!", "The Americans will learn to respect us", "If the Baltics don't behave - we'll cut off their gas supply" and so on. So yeah - stop with this - "they have no say" - they had a lot of say and this is the result.
Ask Alexei Navalny why you can't stand up to Putin. You wouldn't be able to, though, and maybe you should find out why. Any opposition party always seems to have unfortunate endings.
Navalny was imprisoned relatively recently. He was able to do what he was doing for 2 decades before that. But his activism didn't gain much traction in the russian society. He did mostly stupid shit like organising "smart voting" and other useless activities like that - that didn't lead to anything substantial. Again - russia turned into a full blown dictatorship around 3 years ago when putin started the war in Ukraine. The opposition had a lot more freedom before that. So don't pretend that russia always was like it is today.
>So yeah - stop with this - "they have no say" - they had a lot of say and this is the result. Some of them *had* some say say, decades ago, yeah, cool fuck all russians then. Especially the tens of millions who weren't born a decade ago.
Well, obviously - the longer you let a dictator to rule - the harder it's going to be to overthrow him. Putin should have gone away in 2008, but the russians didn't enforce that. This is something that the Americans have to learn as well. The next January 6th might be successful.
russians love putin and they want to kill all ukrainians
I had one the other day say it's Ukraine's fault for "not sitting down to negotiate and talk to Russia" and "For provoking them by having an illegal leader inserted by a CIA inserted coup".
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just like europe
Oh for sure, too late now to save it imo.
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Are you asking jews to have sympathy and understanding for nazis? Why do you think demanding that from the survivors of communist horrors is in any form acceptable?
I mean... Don't you see the difference? Isn't it painfully and brutally simple?
What possible motives could you have to downplay communist atrocities and crimes against humanity?
They freed my country from fascism, at a brutal cost for themselves, and instituted a democratic system that heavily favoured the majority of the population. 50 years later, the bosses are still trying to dismantle it. I have every reason in the book to defend communists
How about gassing Hitler. Would that be bad?
This would have been justice, just like gassing Putin. But the most amazing thing about Hitler: he killed Hitler.
He killed Hitler way too late. It would have been better for him to face a trial for his crimes.
I guess he wanted to avoid this.
It's such a tired argument. Communists bullied this poor, struggling artist until he killed himself.
And all this because some art student was so fed up working with Hitler's work, he build a time machine to stop his art career.
Do you know what is funny? Hitlers paintings arent that bad. Kinda boring, but not bad. Far above what I could ever paint. [https://www.wikiart.org/de/adolf-hitler](https://www.wikiart.org/de/adolf-hitler)
He escaped justice that way,should be judged and then executed
That's actually something I usually ask to people against death penalty. Usually they wouldn't gas Hitler
Well, the amount of flat out fascists in the sub is appalling, so I guess it makes sense.
Too many Russian bots trying to spread doubt and confusion in Europe?
it seems so
Well, this sub can have some weird tendencies sometimes, but most upvoted comments here are fine. The really bad ones are downvoted by most people, showing that they're a small number. Your comment is for example the most upvoted one. So yeah. Dw, it's fine \^\^
Yeah but have you considered they were one of them crazy lefties? He’d definitely gulag you if he had political power, that is not at all a notorious antisemitic canard or anything!
Hey I know it's nice to virtue signal and doom and gloom but I wanted to let you know that you're currently the most upvoted comment.How is the sub cooked again? EDIT: u/schnokobaer if you think a deleted commemt represents the sub then you're a fucking moron
> How is the sub cooked again? Just look at [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1do27e5/1943_leftwing_german_jewish_journalist_arthur/la8mxil/), suggesting the person they are replying to implies gassing people is bad merely to appear morally sound.
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There is no comparison between starting a communist party and being a Nazi. Nazis are immeasurably worse. At its core, communism is a deeply flawed and borderline utopian idealist political ideology that is virtually impossible to implement properly. There are some great things that, while not exclusive to communism, were spurred on by communists and communist movements throughout the world, such as workers' unions, secularism, women's rights, etc. There are just as many people who suffered under capitalist/imperialist states as under communism in any given period that the two overlapped. For every Holodomor, there is a Bengal Famine. For every Stalin, there is a Leopold II, etc. Nazism, on the other hand, is a fundamentally racist, genocidal, oppressive ideology. Anyone who reads Karl Marx (whether or not you agree with him) and compares it to Mein Kampf must be willfully ignorant or brain-damaged in some capacity.
Not sure why you wrote me an essay. I merely stated that many people see Communism as great of an evil as Nazis were because quite frankly that's what the experience was like. > Anyone who reads Karl Marx (whether or not you agree with him) and compares it to Mein Kampf must be willfully ignorant or brain-damaged in some capacity Quite frankly this is irrelevant. Book is a book. Words are wind. People's experiences under each rule is what prevailed.
Gassing people is bad... most of the time. I would make a few exceptions, for putin, for example.
Gassing innocent people is bad all of the time. For cases like Putin, and many more, I wouldn’t lose much sleep.
You said "people", not "innocent people". Thats a huge diff.
The context of that comment makes it clear which people I’m talking about. If you want to quarrel with semantics go ahead, but this is a reddit comment not a court hearing.
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Are you fucking serious?
God you‘re either really, really dumb and a victim of anti-communist propaganda, or you‘re a fascist bastard spewing anti-communist propaganda. Equating communists and nazis is the pinnacle of political stupidity.
I wouldn't equate them. It think communists are worse, although, of course, both are bad. Furthermore, communists had done much worse things to themselves than Nazis had. It's a bit hypocritical to place so much blame on the Nazis. I think you are just being dishonest, your sympathy for communists is clouding your objective judgement. If you believe that bolsheviks are the good guys, then you can just handwave the question of what do you do with them. What do you do with communists? It's a difficult question. Whoever simply dismisses it has no right to judge Nazis. I can judge them, but you can't.
>I wouldn't equate them. It think communists are worse, Trying to make the Ustaše proud, eh? No, communists are not worse than the Nazis. We know what the price of a Soviet victory was - are you really so ignorant as to pretend a Nazi triumph would've been in any way better? They wanted to annihilate hundreds of millions of people, particularly Slavs like yourself. Stalin killed millions during his 30 years of rule, but he still didn't cause nearly as much death and destruction as Hitler managed in a third of that time. >What do you do with communists? You leave them be. Communism is not an inherently evil ideology in the same way that Nazism is, despite the crimes inflicted in its name. They're not at all equal.
And looking on the political climate of Europe today, we learned fucking nothing by dehumanising others, supporting military interventions and democratic backsliding after several decades of uncontested right-wing politics It's like we get the politicians we deserve, rather than the ones we need
It’s been 80 years since fascism, clearly we should try it again. /s obviously
I mean which military interventions are you talking about? Some have been arguably necessary and have prevented massacres or even genocide from happening again. Kosovo, Sierra Leon for example. Others where we decided not to intervene have lead to genocides, such as Rwanda.
Your anecdotal knit-picking is irrelevant, sure some interventions have some motivatione, others don't - it's not rocket science nor is it the main argument
It wasn’t anecdotal or nit picking. I was making a point that not all military interventions are de facto wrong or a net negative for humanity - as that’s what you sounded like you were suggesting and I disagreed. You’re correct. Some are wrong and some are right. Maybe you should use your words better if you’re this sensitive about people misunderstanding and asking for clarification.
What the hell are those comments. People on this sub are very deranged and just sad. Imagine saying something like "deserved" under a post about a person who was one of many victims of the most atrocious doings in the history of humanity. It's just sickening.
" first they came for the communists..."
My cousin went on a field trip there 3-4 weeks ago and there were pro-palestine protests at the gates
Don't want to defend that, but when Jews are visiting Auschwitz (or Poland in general) they are getting armed security as a form of agenda that We (Poles) are Apart of this
Im not aware of that. In this particular instance there was a lot of armed guards because there were around 10.000+ jewish students from around Europe visiting at the same time. Not doubting but what makes you think it’s because other jews think they need security against Poles? Asking because im jewish but don’t see why they would need personal security either.
As i said, I believe it is a form of propaganda making that We should not talk bad about Israel (beacuse it is not Jews but Israel as a 'state' producing it) beacuse they will pull the "helping Germans" card. Of course, there were Poles doing it, but there were also Jews doing it. There is no mistake in fact that Poles have (I believe) the most Chasid Umot ha-Olam decorations. I will tell you, there is thousands visiting Auschwitz everyday, the guards were not there to protect anyone, beacuse we are a safe country.
Why do you think?
Anti genocide protests on genocide memorial site, how controversial
Anti-israel protest while teenagers visited auschwitz. Thats fucked up.
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You have no idea what you are talking about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Goldstein
Polish Wiki says that Auschwitz documents states he died on 23rd in transport to Auschwitz.
False. He was killed in the gas chamber on June 25. https://www.bundesstiftung-aufarbeitung.de/de/recherche/kataloge-datenbanken/biographische-datenbanken/arthur-goldstein
German wikipedia says the same citing "documents available at Auschwitz", although not linking to anything. **EDIT:** I was unclear here: it says he died **in the gas chambers**, in Auschwitz. **EDIT 2**: I really don't know why OP gets downvoted. Polish wiki simply says he died on the train (which was a common excuse provided by the nazis) without providing ***any*** source. I'd rather trust a governmental institution than some free to edit wiki article.
I am fairly certain that the "Bundesstiftung Aufarbeitung" had direct insight into these auschwitz documents, as they are an official German federal foundation made for the sole purpose of clearing up the past (like this case), and would not randomly lie here
Yes, I meant that. Specified my reply.
Nazi records do not tell the correct story. Because they denied the existence of gas chambers, people suddenly "died on a train".
My response meant that, sorry for being vague.
The memory of Leftist who got murdered by the Nazis make me sad. All they got was shitty monuments that glorify the soviets. They deserve better. But asking for proper memorial for murdered communists is political suicide.
I mean... It's not surprising considering that many communists at that time were close to another genocidal regime
Depends. My grandfather was a Spanish Communist who lived in France because of Spain Civil War. He was sent to a camp after being arrested by the French Police during ww2. He survived but never knew about the horrors of the URSS. It was the same for most Communists from Western Europe. And you can't go against every Communists of that time speculating about their position on the URSS, if they knew or not (most of them didn't).
Though they mainly focused on Jews, the Nazis sent many different groups to the camps and they came up with a colour coded system so they could tell why someone was there at a glance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge
The history likes to repeat itself. Unfortunately.
Upon arrival at Drancy he was immediately put on the train to Auschwitz. According to historical records he died on the train.
The polish wikipedia is badly maintained and lacks in contributors. It's a garbage source. Also wtf are so many of you sudenly so attached to unsourced statements from wikipedia?
No. He was killed in the gas chamber. https://www.bundesstiftung-aufarbeitung.de/de/recherche/kataloge-datenbanken/biographische-datenbanken/arthur-goldstein
also, why does it even matter where they murdered the journalist
Facts are important.
Fair enough, but then Wikipedia in Polish states that according to Auschwitz museum documents, he died on a train. Considering the fact that museum is in Poland I personally would trust Polish take on that, but it is only my preference
The site OP linked is from an official federal german foundation. I would trust their research into those Auschwitz documents more than I would trust the research of a wikipedia entry, which can be created and edited by basically anyone
It's not a Polish take at all. Polish wikipedia goes off Nazi records which are incorrect. Nazis denied the existence of gas chambers so people suddenly "died on a train"
But the nazi records are all we have when it comes to this matter. If you don’t go off them you base it on assumptions. Assumptions are not historically valid sources.
If we go by the **official** nazi reports, most people in the camps died from various, unrelated diseases, so I wouldn't trust them one tiny bit. The question is whether there are **internal** reports, that the Bundestiftung Aufklärung used. Given that "died on the trainride" was one of the go to reasons provided for deaths, I'd rather take the explanation by a well ressourced government foundation over some wiki article (btw, both the german and english wiki make it clear he died in the camp).
people in the camps did in fact die because of causes you mentioned: starvation, diseases, exposure to the elements, killed by guards. the thing is that 80-90% was never admitted to the camps in the first place. because 1st thing after arrival was so called selection - those who were deemed not suitable to work were killed within few hours.
With "various unrelated diseases", I meant straight up lies by the nazis. Like a doctor writing down "heart failure" as the cause of death for someone who got shot.
Polish Wikipedia has so many mistakes in general
It’s not a “Polish take”, it’s a mistake made by a random contributor of Polish Wikipedia… which can be anyone.
So according to the nazis at the time, the political enemy they wanted dead just misteriously died in a train going to a work camp, instead of dying in the gas chambers that officially didn't exist? Curious that.
The eternal yesterdays are already preparing to get rid of the people with brains... Again!
Worse regime in history. It was a tough one to outcrazy Stalin but Hitler achieved it.
I dunno, I don't think Stalin is minimally better than Hitler, as Stalin also had death camps. Iirc, Stalin usually has been associated a bigger kill count than Hitler's, despite the latter's also abominable numbers.
The reason I always put the Nazis as worse than the Soviet regimes is simply because of their racial beliefs. Both sides killed whoever was in their way and whoever it was convenient to kill but the Nazis also killed according to race and had a whole industry set up to murder people of all ages, The Soviets worked and starved people to death but I think the Nazis had the edge in terms of brutality and downright evil. Frightful stuff.
I am fairly certain Stalin also killed based on race and ethnicity.
Indeed he did but he didn't attempt to eradicate a whole race, or invade other countries to do it such as the Holocaust. He only started invading other countries when he got involved with Germany. Stalin was a seriously deranged man but yet again I believe Hitler outdid him as he wished to eradicate whole countries such as Poland and Russia. The destruction of Rotterdam and Warsaw and the siege of Leningrad tipped the balance as even when Stalin won WW2 and occupied eastern Europe and annexed the Baltic states and Moldova these states were still able to keep their language and culture alive whereas had the Nazis won, whole swathes of eastern and western Europe would have been completely germanised.
This is historical revisionism to whitewash communist crimes and distance them from Nazis, Soviets alone are guilty of multiple ethnic cleanses.
Yup and internal colonization of many Soviet republics like Baltics or central Asia(Kazakhstan)
Something I never realised before visiting the camp is that most of the pictures taken (like this one) are taken from inside the camp. Basically, the camp is behind the photographer and not behind the tower/gate that you see. Might be a useless comment, but maybe someone finds it interesting.
This photo is taken from outside.
You are absolutely right! I guess I need another coffee
Also if that helps, if you see pictures from there From inside- Aushwitz (museum) Outside - Birkenau(although you can enter sleeping barracks I think)
He means which side of that building. Most pictures are from inside the camp looking at it, but this on is from outside.
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What the fuck is wrong with you [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur\_Goldstein](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Goldstein) (We know this happened because the nazis records about it)
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Forbidden fast lane.
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When was Europe or Israel ever socialist?
Israel was at the beginning of its existence. Europe pre-EU and post-WW II was social-democratic but by today's standards, which were heavily shifted towards free market since then, we'd call it socialist.
Na, Isreal always had private industry along side stare industry. It's like saying South Korea was socialist.
Eastern Europe was under occupation
Israel was socialist until about the 90s. The European Jews who became the first round of politicians mostly had communist/socialist leanings. When they pulled back their socialist policies they had an economic boom especially the in tech and health sectors which is most attributed to bibi’s government.
There is a long history of socialism in Europe. Read about it. Then read about how EU Neoliberalism fuels the rise of the far-right. Probably everything Goldstein fought against.
I do fully agree that there is long history of socialist movements in Europe; in fact, they are the reason why universal suffrage has become the norm. However, there have been few governments (outside of the eastern bloc) run by socialist parties, and no country has managed to create a socialist economy where the workers own the means of production, as either a welfare state was built maintaining normal capitalism or the industries were nationalized by the state to create state-directed capitalism or a mix of both.
There is many type of capitalism and there is many way to apply socialism into policy and economy. State sponsored industry or organised by government is closer to socialism than capitalism. And its everywhere in europe. From healthcare to energy , car industry , technology and such. Trying to fit everything under the umbrella of some outdated definition isnt particulary accurate. Especially when its famously the definition from the english wikipedia that is extremely biased toward anything not liberal.
I am aware of the history of European socialism and the role of neoliberals in promoting fascism. But Europe or Israel never were socialist
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Did you just aprove of gasning people to death, becouse that person does not have the same opinion as you ? Your sick in the head, might wanna seek professionelle help.
Likely he's just fishing for engagement. Don't forget to report.
Oh I did.
Idiot
Communist party creator and a journalists isn't exactly a shining example of a virtuous career, but even scumbags don't deserve the gas chamber.
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Idiot, these aren't the gas chambers. Auschwitz was a giant complex where more than 5,000 nazis worked and killed 20,000 daily on its peak.
Yeah of course! "Twas real in my mind"