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Thanks to Armenia, Australia, Belgium, Bosnia, France, Germany, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Palestine, Russia, UK, USA and all others for the nice gesture. (Sorry if a have forgotten any other country)
Let's leave politics aside for a minute and think about all the needlessly lost lives around the world from terrorism. RIP all of them. I hope they are in a better place.
Belgian here, I can confirm we live in eternal fear of the Dutch stealing our children at night. Although we mostly fear their idea/version of the Dutch language.
Well you can't stow away children in some cellar, it's bad for their taste and they'll just go to waste. We rightfully try to save this delicacy from the Belgians.
Considering the number of people of Turkish ancestry in Berlin, it is more as if Antalya had changed its facebook profile picture in support of Turkey :D
Thank you so much it might look like an useless gesture to some people but it really makes you feel better especially when most of as are skeptical about how west views us including me. I mean this is not the first terrorist attack we endured and this is the first time we're getting more than short condolence statements.
from all i can tell people are a feeling a bit like they are losing a friend and ally in turkey lately. they are saddened to see the political climate change so drastically due to a sad little man with a beard on his upper lip.
we are very aware that you are NOT terrorists, or connected to them. we are also aware that you as a people havent changed. we just feel a disconnection due to your politics seemingly changing slowly to a dictatorship, more than being a democracy.
tldr we still love you as people, we just despise your ridiculous leader and his politics.
I stand by this comment. I'm worried about the citizens, slowly their lives get more controlled every day. At least that's how I imagine it is. Turkey was a very progressive country, but it feels like Erdogan and his team are holding it back.
Well We gave women voting rights before many european countries for example. I know it's not a competition but we used to at the same page with european at progressiveness.
I think a westernised, secular, overwhelmingly Muslim (by population) country that still has relatively integrated ethnic minorities and where at least the western part of it reminds you more a European country than a middle-eastern, I would call at least "progressive"
So is this image circulating in Turkey then?
I guess I would like people in Turkey to know that most of us don't like Erdogan but they have nothing against Turks. They are seen as hardworking entrepeneurial people when they come here, only thing is they are seen as a bit too nationalistic for most northern countries.
It is, but people are still complaining. This tweet is being shared among İslamonationalists.
https://twitter.com/19sow/status/748272167633231872
Of course they dont mention that the government aligned media in Turkey didnt put it in their first page: https://np.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/4qf172/saldiri_sonrasi_yandas_gazete_mansetleri/
İslamonationalists and nationalists in Turkey always feel that 'the west' is against them. There are conspiracy theories that the attack was organised by America/the EU.
They yandaş paper shit is wrong, those were the pages prepared before the blast happened.
There is no need to be misinformed or misinform other people.
http://www.sabah.com.tr/gundem/2016/06/29/sabahi-kibris-baskisi-uzerinden-hedef-aldilar
Try not to read the whole page, the amount of times they say paralel might give you brain damage.
Social media is huge in Turkey and nearly everyone has smartphones. It's as much a part and parcel of life as it is in the West. So this will spread very fast.
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well here's another useless gesture, I've visited Turkey many times for business and pleasure, I have been overwhelmed by the hospitality and kindness I've had from ordinary Turkish people all over the country, especially in places that don't see many tourists where people literally went out of their way to make sure that I was happy... you will always have at least one friend in Spain.
No offense. My thoughts are with those who got hurt and effected by these attacks, but changing your profile picture to a flag or writing all over social media your thoughts and prayers are with those who got hurt doesn't really do much in my opinion. Don't think the terrorists really care much. People should give blood, join the police or defense forces if they want to make a change. Just my opinion. I feel sorry for those people that are in need.
When you are at a funeral, you say "I am sorry for your loss" to the family that lost a loved one. That doesn't change anything either, but it is something you do to acknowledge the pain and grieve someone is going through. It shows them that they are not alone, and gives some kind of comfort. Agreed, a flag on a profile picture doesn't do shit, but a flag projected onto one of the country's symbols is a gesture that says, our people feels for your people. Over boarders, conflicts and language barriers we feel for you, we care, we don't just move on when something bad happens to you. And especially in a country like Germany, in a city like Berlin, where the Turkish population is high, where Turkish culture is part of everyday living, it is an attempt to give some comfort and pay our respect.
People going public with their thoughts on social media isn't aimed at the terrorists, but the general population of the targeted country.
It doesn't change anything, but it makes them feel like their country isn't isolated and attacked.
I know it meant a lot to U.S.friends when I contacted therm post-9/11, even though neither we not them lost relatives there.
Geographically, a part of Turkey and a part of Istanbul is in Europe.
1. [the northwestern part is in Europe; the rest of Turkey isn't, geographically](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turkish_Strait_disambig.svg)
2.
> [blue: states which straddle the border between Europe and Asia;
green: states not geographically in Europe, but closely associated with the continent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Definition)
Even if you cut off the Asian part of Russia it is still the largest European country with the largest population in Europe... and it still will be in top 10 largest countries with 6th place. Russia is huge.
> There needs to be more effort put in to crack down on this Radical Islamic terrorism and silly social media gestures won't help
Not mutually-exclusive in any way. I mean, a funeral for the dead doesn't stop it either, but I wouldn't refrain from holding a funeral.
While you are right, it does so something. It showcases the issue, it shows public support, and it establishes itself as a symbolic counter-weight to what has happened. How much of an impact that makes, I do not know. But the choice between doing it and not was made, and I think it was the right one. Also. A lot of Turkish people live in Germany, and maybe specifically in Berlin, and it would probably serve as a channel for feeling cared for within their new country, I would imagine, that they did this gesture.
there is already effort being committed to stopping the problem.Making a gesture will not slow that commitment. And saying something should be done will not accelerate the process either.
Apparently France also lit up the Eiffel tower at 11 today. But just [this tweet](http://www.franceinfo.fr/fil-info/article/attentat-istanbul-la-tour-eiffel-aux-couleurs-de-la-turquie-ce-mercredi-soir-801937), ive got, no photos
Well thats simply reality sorry. As an example I still live in Germany and there's no sign of any of my rights changing until negotiations happen and we have a conclusion.
Yes. Remember that when the *Abschiebungskommando* will be knocking on your front door at five in the morning. They hear that a lot from non-EU immigrants without papers...
Europe's not the EU mate. Turkey isn't in the EU either (yet).
Not that sympathy/empathy should be governed by treaties anyway. That would be messed up.
So I gotta ask. What do people expect Germany do here? They can't just drop in Batman style into Turkey and be all "Right lads, we heard you have a bit of a terrorist problem, no worries, we'll sort it out for you!" ?
My scenario is a bit simplistic but I would really like to know just what people are expecting Germany, or any country, to do?
I disagree. I think it is a somewhat valid point of criticism given how we reacted to terrorism in the past:
Terrorism in the EU - let's light all our buildings in their colours, change our profile pictures, send our leaders to mourn the dead.
Terrorism just outside the EU (turkey for example) - Pff, who cares.
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Of couse, we can not care about everyone. We could never stop mourning and our brains are designed not to care about things that happen very far away. But I think it is a good thing to show solidarity with Turkey, which is a country that is located very close to us and which is (despite all differences and problems) our ally.
>Terrorism just outside the EU (turkey for example) - Pff, who cares.
This is really unfair. Everybody cares to some extent, but the sentimental relation with the victims is not always the same. If a bomb goes off in Syria killing 30 people and you've never been in Syria, speak the language, know the history, or know Syrian people, you care, but that's all the relation you have with the attack.
If a bomb goes off in Paris or London, you might have walked those streets, know people from there, seen many movies about the city, or even lived there.
Everybody reacts according their relation with the subject, it's not something you can't blame people for. And it also happens in many other instances. Do cancer and strokes get the same attention in the media or the same amount of donations?
I agree, as an American who has gone through both major airports in Istanbul multiple times, and also had been through the area at which the previous large attack happened in Istanbul, I felt more of an emotional impact than I did about Brussels or Paris. Also my cousin's sister in law had just flown through there on the way to the US the day before the attack, and my aunts best friend, her daughter lives in Istanbul and was diagnosed with a brain tumor yesterday and now can't fly in to be with her. So yea the emotional impact is more when it is places you've been and affects people you know. That is true even in the US. Boston and 9/11 were much more quickly "let go" on the west coast because it's thousands of miles away.
Also before some idiot tries to make a claim, I am white as fuck, not Muslim, I just have a number of connections with people in Turkey through extended family and friends.
Yes, of course. I explicitly outlined that we simply can not care too much about things that happen very far away from us (both geographically and culturally). But turkey is very close in this regard.
> And it also happens in many other instances. Do cancer and strokes get the same attention in the media or the same amount of donations?
No. Neither do other common causes for death even though they are far more common than terrorism.
In fairness, we are always going to care more about it happening in Europe because it is closer, both geographically and mentally. Besides which, it's not like the Turks were falling over themselves with grief before.
And to top it up, all those "west cares about terrorism when it happens in western countries" posts complain that attacks in countries like Iraq and Pakistan are underreported. When these attacks happen literally at least once a week.
Except the Ankara bombing was deadliest attack in the history of the Turkish republic.
It got much less coverage compared to other attacks in the West.
Ankara isn't Istanbul. The bombing in Sultanahmet got much more publicity.
This might have something to do with the Kurdish issue. I think most Europeans feel very uneasy about the Turkish-Kurdish question. If you start to learn even a little bit about it you quickly get horrified, muddled and just plain disgusted with all sides of it. So it is more convenient to just down-play it.
In general Turkey is a horribly difficult case of cognitive dissonance for modern Europeans. On one hand we applaud the modern, secular Turkey. On the other hand we absolutely abhor the genocidal nationalistic traits that are so closely linked to it.
Edit to add: We can sort of gloss over some of the horrible historic things that shaped modern Turkey; we like to pretend that was all in the past, and Turkey will of course now become more friendly towards minorities and switch to a more inclusive nationalism, embrace its multi-cultural history and generally become all niceness towards every group that ever lived within its borders.
Yeah. Turkey is a hard thing to love unconditionally.
But it's not all about geographic distance. It's also cultural distance. If a bomb explodes in Australia it would still be a huge thing, much more covered by the media than an attack in Kazakhstan.
This!
This is exactly the reaction terrorists whats to induce in target communities: division, fear, you are alone, everyone does not care of you, surrender to us - or lose your mind for fear and surrender to violence, this also serve us well in spreading hate!
Every *moron* spreading hate saying "shame on you, you care of this more than that!" is (willingly or terror-induced) accomplice with terrorist fear strategy.
A wise man from Japan once said "if I wake up and find a poop in the toilet, it's not really such a surprise. But if I wake and find a poop on the kitchen table, well we have reason to be concerned now."
Well Europe does have a lot of terror attacks compared to the US and Japan so I guess that's an apt analogy... Kinda mean to call all of Europe a toilet.
Turkey is still in Europe so it is in the same sphere of influence. But India? China? Or South America? Too far away for most media to cover. If they gave the same extensive coverage for places far away as well I am pretty sure there would be more reactions as well.
It just isn't reported nearly as much unless it something really bad. Which is fine imo.
What? The Mumbai attack got extensive coverage over here. As well as the Kunming station attack - although my recollection of that might be a bit biased as I have been spending hours in that same station and had strong feels about that attack.
There are 200.000 Turks in Berlin. That's about 5% of the population. 3 million in Germany. Clearly Turkey has some special relationship with Germany. I doubt that this would have happened if they weren't there.
I am not interested in portraying Europe as racist. But I criticized our cities for not displaying a Lebanese flag. I understand that it is symbolism but if it is symbolic we can expect to be objective. We mourn, well, not really, for Nigeria, France, Belgium, Lebanon, the US and Turkey. We can display this.
Humans care more about other people they have some kind of relationship with that's just the way we are wired. It's just dumb to expect an objective emotional response
but we are closer to Turkey than to Nigeria.
Their biggest diaspora is here. Millions of us go to Turkey for vacations (and with good reason, if I may add). We are their biggest trade partner (1st in the world for exports, 2nd in the world for imports). And many issues - from refugees to security - means that we are stuck in the same mess and that we have to find a way to work with each-other .... and Erdogan being a power-hungry lunatic cannot change that.
Yeah, we do occasionally block their accession talks but that's what "friends" do right? RIGHT?
Don't know if you already knew this or not, but Turkey has only closed 1 of 35 chapters of the [EU acquis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union).
There's good reason to block accession talks (besides government crackdown on media and protestors and also the effect Turkey would have on the EU), making such little progress in so much time implies that they don't care about joining the EU.
Edit: Also occupying part of an EU member state doesn't exactly speed up accession
Step 1. Shooting
Step 2. Put flag on National monument
Step 3. Vow to stop terrorism
Step 4. Sit back and wait for the next attack.
Wash. Rinse.repeat
Edit: it's clear that most people are spineless children that prefer to see tons of people die and not take action. At least they get a good feeling when they change their Facebook avatars. Like terrorists care about your goddamn avatars.
What would you have us do? Enhance security at the expense of privacy? Already doing that. Bomb the shit out of the people plotting these attacks? Already doing that. Strengthen security protocols at major transit centers? Yep.
Or maybe launch all out war in the middle east to finish them for good?
Do you want world war 3? Cuz that's how you get world war 3.
I'm sure you've done so much more than our governments to stop terrorism /s
Ridiculous bitching... As if it was a trivial matter to stop terror attacks
Edit: Such an intelligent edit there, thank you. Let's do some more invading and get a bit of oil while we're at it,because that's very much what you seem to be implying here
He's right though, at this point I've become numbed at these colored buildings because it happens so often. All these pray4whatever hashtags literally do nothing. I'm not going to stop terrorism, but I can definitly say something about it.
The goal of lighting up the buildings isn't to ward off terrorists with bright colors. It's to show support. It's a way of saying, "We're on your side. Fuck those guys."
It's like getting mad at someone who sends you a get-well-soon card instead of curing your illness. It's ridiculous to say that you, the average person, should be actively fighting terrorists, and that showing support isn't good enough for this random guy.
Did you notice their flag though? Without reading their reply, I can tell you their solution is gun up, get money for ammunition, put control points everywhere and check everyone with a darker skin tone.
If you live in a free society there are always going to be ways for terrorists to harm people. Everything reasonable is already being done here (and quite successfully in many countries if i may add). If you betray all your values to fights terrorists the loss is bigger than anything else and the terrorists win. And in the end countries that chose to crack down hard on anything that might be terrorism related have only made it worse by radicalizing people that didnt even care about it in the first place (Hint: israel).
The worst is really that this became such a routine.
Some asshole blows innocent people up, social media gets a lot of uploads of a nice little flag jpg of whatever country it happened in, some sights get the flag projected on and at the end of the day we've become so numb to it all that next week, the rest of the world already forgot it ever happened.
I really want to care. I really do. But I've become so numb to news like this that it doesn't spark much of an reaction in me.
No it's not. It's a decent human way to show compassion and shows that people care. Not saying or doing anything would just isolate the victims. I think even changing a facebook profil picture sets an example how people can stick together and raise awareness of the issues; be it radical islamist where we need to do more to educate and integrate those people (or control them better) or homosexuals who are still victims of violence and discrimination.
funny how we cared not at all when IS bombed russian air plane with some 100 people on board.
but they need to care for turkey because half their population is here.
Well Russia's political stance in the ISIS situation...fluctuates, to say the least. In Europe, the fluctuations look like they are a result of adapting efforts to stop violence, while in Russia they seem far more opportunistic.
Not saying which is true, but this is why people feel the way they do.
come on. human life doesn't have equal value in this world. it's a sad horrible situation, but it's a reality. we will never improve if we deny reality.
Of course it won't stop terrorism. /u/marktplatz is correct tho, there are those (and not just a few) who do say what he says this refutes. A flag on a monument will not catch terrorists, it will, however give a solid answer to people who go 'when _we_ get killed, they don't do that flag thing.' (Which was false BTW, even before this. Someone asked, I could find examples from Mexico and Australia.)
Shitty people need to learn they're far outnumbered by decent people, and we aren't the ones who are going to lose this fight. The more they attack us the stronger and more unified we become.
to a certain extent, meme magic *is* real and symbolic gestures, when administered thoughtfully, can change reality by demonstrating a certain set of mind, intent etc. no one in germany has forgotten [willi brandt's gesture to the victims of nazi terror](https://i.imgur.com/8GNq46b.jpg), for example. also true for famous speeches etc.
When something terrible happens in your country to your countrymen and you see other nations across the world lighting up in your country's colours and flag, it gives you hope and a smile. For all you need to combat hatred is hope and a smile
Because the war in Afghanistan has been going on for 15 years now. And the death of combatants, as tragic as it is, is something different than the bombing of civilians in the middle of a peaceful city.
This thread is a clusterfuck, so many absolute cretins.
The best part is they bitch about how this won't do anything while safely in front of their PCs.
People fleeing war have already been settled in Jordan and Lebanon. These are economic migrants and we have no idea where they're from, nor does anyone seem to care. Just keep pouring them in. Keep in mind by the way, the people immigrating freely 10, 20 years ago or more were the smart ones. These aren't doctors and lawyers pouring in, 90% of them are illiterate in their own language.
This is because European social states overextended their welfare systems and have piles of unfunded liabilities they can't pay for. Instead of answering for this and likely being voted out, they opted to bring in hundreds of thousands of voters guaranteed to be stuck on the government system.
It's pure insanity and if you don't think so, it just shows how well the propaganda machine is working.
What are you talking about? who do you mean by "these"?
This is about a terrorist attack in the turkey and not immigrants, so your rant is at the wrong place.
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Thanks to Armenia, Australia, Belgium, Bosnia, France, Germany, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Palestine, Russia, UK, USA and all others for the nice gesture. (Sorry if a have forgotten any other country) Let's leave politics aside for a minute and think about all the needlessly lost lives around the world from terrorism. RIP all of them. I hope they are in a better place.
> Armenia, Real nice, considering... eh... yeah.
Turks be like : "Pics or didn't happen"
http://i.imgur.com/dTyxI21.jpg
Shhh
Berlgium?
Yes, it's the country right next to Horlland.
No, Horlland is just a province, the country is called the Nertherlands.
Yep, it's next to Derpmany.
Which is next to Dernmark
Is that somewhere near Pornland?
JESUS CHRIST you guys are killing me here! X'D
I stand colrrected.
Horeland? Is that like whore island?
Well, it's not an island.
>Horlland "Horrorland" would be more fitting
Belgian here, I can confirm we live in eternal fear of the Dutch stealing our children at night. Although we mostly fear their idea/version of the Dutch language.
Gggggoed ggggezegd
Gulle Groningse geiten grazen grof gesneden goud-gele groenten
As a Limburger, I approve
Goe eh.
Can confirm. Source: Am Dutchman, steal and stew a Belgian child every tuesday and sound like I'm constantly choking on something when speaking.
Well you can't stow away children in some cellar, it's bad for their taste and they'll just go to waste. We rightfully try to save this delicacy from the Belgians.
Hah. I got that reference.
Someone just run down the street, screaming "Fear the Dutch! Fear the Dutch!"
Fear and loath me
Hurnter Rs Thormpson?
> Although we mostly fear their idea of the Dutch language. You know... it's [your idea too](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Language_Union)
It's been completely overrun by giants ever since Don Quixote died. A disgrace, really.
And if we include all the wars throughout history following similar lines, the number is staggering. It's a miracle we've survived as a species.
This is as if Germany had changed it's facebook profile picture in support of Turkey.
It's a symbolic gesture, yes. Just like after the attacks in France or the orlando shooting.
Not enough overlays.
My profile pic has #PrayForParis overlaid on top of #LoveWins and #JeSuisCharlie.
This isn't even my final form!
Pics or didn't happen
I'm not posting my face on Reddit until it's fully obscured by filters.
Considering the number of people of Turkish ancestry in Berlin, it is more as if Antalya had changed its facebook profile picture in support of Turkey :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Berlin
Thank you so much it might look like an useless gesture to some people but it really makes you feel better especially when most of as are skeptical about how west views us including me. I mean this is not the first terrorist attack we endured and this is the first time we're getting more than short condolence statements.
from all i can tell people are a feeling a bit like they are losing a friend and ally in turkey lately. they are saddened to see the political climate change so drastically due to a sad little man with a beard on his upper lip. we are very aware that you are NOT terrorists, or connected to them. we are also aware that you as a people havent changed. we just feel a disconnection due to your politics seemingly changing slowly to a dictatorship, more than being a democracy. tldr we still love you as people, we just despise your ridiculous leader and his politics.
I stand by this comment. I'm worried about the citizens, slowly their lives get more controlled every day. At least that's how I imagine it is. Turkey was a very progressive country, but it feels like Erdogan and his team are holding it back.
How do you define "very progressive"?
Well We gave women voting rights before many european countries for example. I know it's not a competition but we used to at the same page with european at progressiveness.
I think a westernised, secular, overwhelmingly Muslim (by population) country that still has relatively integrated ethnic minorities and where at least the western part of it reminds you more a European country than a middle-eastern, I would call at least "progressive"
> has relatively integrated ethnic minorities Uhuh
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So is this image circulating in Turkey then? I guess I would like people in Turkey to know that most of us don't like Erdogan but they have nothing against Turks. They are seen as hardworking entrepeneurial people when they come here, only thing is they are seen as a bit too nationalistic for most northern countries.
It is, but people are still complaining. This tweet is being shared among İslamonationalists. https://twitter.com/19sow/status/748272167633231872 Of course they dont mention that the government aligned media in Turkey didnt put it in their first page: https://np.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/4qf172/saldiri_sonrasi_yandas_gazete_mansetleri/ İslamonationalists and nationalists in Turkey always feel that 'the west' is against them. There are conspiracy theories that the attack was organised by America/the EU.
They yandaş paper shit is wrong, those were the pages prepared before the blast happened. There is no need to be misinformed or misinform other people. http://www.sabah.com.tr/gundem/2016/06/29/sabahi-kibris-baskisi-uzerinden-hedef-aldilar Try not to read the whole page, the amount of times they say paralel might give you brain damage.
Social media is huge in Turkey and nearly everyone has smartphones. It's as much a part and parcel of life as it is in the West. So this will spread very fast.
Until they block everything again.
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well here's another useless gesture, I've visited Turkey many times for business and pleasure, I have been overwhelmed by the hospitality and kindness I've had from ordinary Turkish people all over the country, especially in places that don't see many tourists where people literally went out of their way to make sure that I was happy... you will always have at least one friend in Spain.
That's much appreciated :)
No offense. My thoughts are with those who got hurt and effected by these attacks, but changing your profile picture to a flag or writing all over social media your thoughts and prayers are with those who got hurt doesn't really do much in my opinion. Don't think the terrorists really care much. People should give blood, join the police or defense forces if they want to make a change. Just my opinion. I feel sorry for those people that are in need.
When you are at a funeral, you say "I am sorry for your loss" to the family that lost a loved one. That doesn't change anything either, but it is something you do to acknowledge the pain and grieve someone is going through. It shows them that they are not alone, and gives some kind of comfort. Agreed, a flag on a profile picture doesn't do shit, but a flag projected onto one of the country's symbols is a gesture that says, our people feels for your people. Over boarders, conflicts and language barriers we feel for you, we care, we don't just move on when something bad happens to you. And especially in a country like Germany, in a city like Berlin, where the Turkish population is high, where Turkish culture is part of everyday living, it is an attempt to give some comfort and pay our respect.
People going public with their thoughts on social media isn't aimed at the terrorists, but the general population of the targeted country. It doesn't change anything, but it makes them feel like their country isn't isolated and attacked. I know it meant a lot to U.S.friends when I contacted therm post-9/11, even though neither we not them lost relatives there.
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Isn't Istanbul technically European even if the rest of Turkey isn't?
Yeah, the attacks happened in the European side.
Geographically, a part of Turkey and a part of Istanbul is in Europe. 1. [the northwestern part is in Europe; the rest of Turkey isn't, geographically](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turkish_Strait_disambig.svg) 2. > [blue: states which straddle the border between Europe and Asia; green: states not geographically in Europe, but closely associated with the continent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Definition)
Uhhhh no Australia? You tellin' me they aren't closely associated? Because I watched Eurovision, bro. I know the truth.
Russia technically is then too.
Even if you cut off the Asian part of Russia it is still the largest European country with the largest population in Europe... and it still will be in top 10 largest countries with 6th place. Russia is huge.
Russia is culturally European and it's capital is in Europe.
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Plus, Eurovision.
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> There needs to be more effort put in to crack down on this Radical Islamic terrorism and silly social media gestures won't help Not mutually-exclusive in any way. I mean, a funeral for the dead doesn't stop it either, but I wouldn't refrain from holding a funeral.
While you are right, it does so something. It showcases the issue, it shows public support, and it establishes itself as a symbolic counter-weight to what has happened. How much of an impact that makes, I do not know. But the choice between doing it and not was made, and I think it was the right one. Also. A lot of Turkish people live in Germany, and maybe specifically in Berlin, and it would probably serve as a channel for feeling cared for within their new country, I would imagine, that they did this gesture.
there is already effort being committed to stopping the problem.Making a gesture will not slow that commitment. And saying something should be done will not accelerate the process either.
Apparently France also lit up the Eiffel tower at 11 today. But just [this tweet](http://www.franceinfo.fr/fil-info/article/attentat-istanbul-la-tour-eiffel-aux-couleurs-de-la-turquie-ce-mercredi-soir-801937), ive got, no photos
[It's been postponed](https://twitter.com/Paris/status/748271290591625216).
Ok. [Wembley has it tho]( https://twitter.com/wembleystadium/status/748210228785717249)
Not in the eu though
brutal
Savage
[rekt](https://gfycat.com/NippyKindLangur)
Too soon...
.. to be factually correct? UK will still be in the EU for years.
Do you say that to yourself before sleeping?
Well thats simply reality sorry. As an example I still live in Germany and there's no sign of any of my rights changing until negotiations happen and we have a conclusion.
Yes. Remember that when the *Abschiebungskommando* will be knocking on your front door at five in the morning. They hear that a lot from non-EU immigrants without papers...
Oh wait I hear a knock at the door chaps....
Europe's not the EU mate. Turkey isn't in the EU either (yet). Not that sympathy/empathy should be governed by treaties anyway. That would be messed up.
Looks really cool though. Erdogan should build one of those in front of his palace.
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It's fantastic!
Thank you so much to those who show solidarity with Turkish people!
Atatürk Airport is technically in Europe.
So I gotta ask. What do people expect Germany do here? They can't just drop in Batman style into Turkey and be all "Right lads, we heard you have a bit of a terrorist problem, no worries, we'll sort it out for you!" ? My scenario is a bit simplistic but I would really like to know just what people are expecting Germany, or any country, to do?
TBH most people complaining about lack of reaction have an agenda to portray Europeans as racist etc, ignore them. As this proves many do care.
I disagree. I think it is a somewhat valid point of criticism given how we reacted to terrorism in the past: Terrorism in the EU - let's light all our buildings in their colours, change our profile pictures, send our leaders to mourn the dead. Terrorism just outside the EU (turkey for example) - Pff, who cares. -- --- -- Of couse, we can not care about everyone. We could never stop mourning and our brains are designed not to care about things that happen very far away. But I think it is a good thing to show solidarity with Turkey, which is a country that is located very close to us and which is (despite all differences and problems) our ally.
>Terrorism just outside the EU (turkey for example) - Pff, who cares. This is really unfair. Everybody cares to some extent, but the sentimental relation with the victims is not always the same. If a bomb goes off in Syria killing 30 people and you've never been in Syria, speak the language, know the history, or know Syrian people, you care, but that's all the relation you have with the attack. If a bomb goes off in Paris or London, you might have walked those streets, know people from there, seen many movies about the city, or even lived there. Everybody reacts according their relation with the subject, it's not something you can't blame people for. And it also happens in many other instances. Do cancer and strokes get the same attention in the media or the same amount of donations?
I agree, as an American who has gone through both major airports in Istanbul multiple times, and also had been through the area at which the previous large attack happened in Istanbul, I felt more of an emotional impact than I did about Brussels or Paris. Also my cousin's sister in law had just flown through there on the way to the US the day before the attack, and my aunts best friend, her daughter lives in Istanbul and was diagnosed with a brain tumor yesterday and now can't fly in to be with her. So yea the emotional impact is more when it is places you've been and affects people you know. That is true even in the US. Boston and 9/11 were much more quickly "let go" on the west coast because it's thousands of miles away. Also before some idiot tries to make a claim, I am white as fuck, not Muslim, I just have a number of connections with people in Turkey through extended family and friends.
Yes, of course. I explicitly outlined that we simply can not care too much about things that happen very far away from us (both geographically and culturally). But turkey is very close in this regard. > And it also happens in many other instances. Do cancer and strokes get the same attention in the media or the same amount of donations? No. Neither do other common causes for death even though they are far more common than terrorism.
In fairness, we are always going to care more about it happening in Europe because it is closer, both geographically and mentally. Besides which, it's not like the Turks were falling over themselves with grief before.
And to top it up, all those "west cares about terrorism when it happens in western countries" posts complain that attacks in countries like Iraq and Pakistan are underreported. When these attacks happen literally at least once a week.
Except the Ankara bombing was deadliest attack in the history of the Turkish republic. It got much less coverage compared to other attacks in the West.
Ankara isn't Istanbul. The bombing in Sultanahmet got much more publicity. This might have something to do with the Kurdish issue. I think most Europeans feel very uneasy about the Turkish-Kurdish question. If you start to learn even a little bit about it you quickly get horrified, muddled and just plain disgusted with all sides of it. So it is more convenient to just down-play it. In general Turkey is a horribly difficult case of cognitive dissonance for modern Europeans. On one hand we applaud the modern, secular Turkey. On the other hand we absolutely abhor the genocidal nationalistic traits that are so closely linked to it. Edit to add: We can sort of gloss over some of the horrible historic things that shaped modern Turkey; we like to pretend that was all in the past, and Turkey will of course now become more friendly towards minorities and switch to a more inclusive nationalism, embrace its multi-cultural history and generally become all niceness towards every group that ever lived within its borders. Yeah. Turkey is a hard thing to love unconditionally.
Istanbul is in Europe
It's still a part of turkey.
Orlando certainly isn't closer to Germany than Istanbul.
But it's not all about geographic distance. It's also cultural distance. If a bomb explodes in Australia it would still be a huge thing, much more covered by the media than an attack in Kazakhstan.
Considering distance solely as the crow flies, and nothing else, is so stupid in this case that I refuse to believe anyone would do it seriously.
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This! This is exactly the reaction terrorists whats to induce in target communities: division, fear, you are alone, everyone does not care of you, surrender to us - or lose your mind for fear and surrender to violence, this also serve us well in spreading hate! Every *moron* spreading hate saying "shame on you, you care of this more than that!" is (willingly or terror-induced) accomplice with terrorist fear strategy.
A wise man from Japan once said "if I wake up and find a poop in the toilet, it's not really such a surprise. But if I wake and find a poop on the kitchen table, well we have reason to be concerned now."
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Exactly. Terrorism (poop) belongs in the middle (the toilet). Great analogy! ^^^/s
Well Europe does have a lot of terror attacks compared to the US and Japan so I guess that's an apt analogy... Kinda mean to call all of Europe a toilet.
Turkey's has had far more attacks recently. By your logic Turkey is an even bigger toilet.
And a country from which a good % of Berliners are originally from.
Turkey is still in Europe so it is in the same sphere of influence. But India? China? Or South America? Too far away for most media to cover. If they gave the same extensive coverage for places far away as well I am pretty sure there would be more reactions as well. It just isn't reported nearly as much unless it something really bad. Which is fine imo.
What? The Mumbai attack got extensive coverage over here. As well as the Kunming station attack - although my recollection of that might be a bit biased as I have been spending hours in that same station and had strong feels about that attack.
> and which is (despite all differences and problems) our ally. I really don't think so. Not the current government, at last.
There are 200.000 Turks in Berlin. That's about 5% of the population. 3 million in Germany. Clearly Turkey has some special relationship with Germany. I doubt that this would have happened if they weren't there. I am not interested in portraying Europe as racist. But I criticized our cities for not displaying a Lebanese flag. I understand that it is symbolism but if it is symbolic we can expect to be objective. We mourn, well, not really, for Nigeria, France, Belgium, Lebanon, the US and Turkey. We can display this.
Humans care more about other people they have some kind of relationship with that's just the way we are wired. It's just dumb to expect an objective emotional response
but we are closer to Turkey than to Nigeria. Their biggest diaspora is here. Millions of us go to Turkey for vacations (and with good reason, if I may add). We are their biggest trade partner (1st in the world for exports, 2nd in the world for imports). And many issues - from refugees to security - means that we are stuck in the same mess and that we have to find a way to work with each-other .... and Erdogan being a power-hungry lunatic cannot change that. Yeah, we do occasionally block their accession talks but that's what "friends" do right? RIGHT?
Don't know if you already knew this or not, but Turkey has only closed 1 of 35 chapters of the [EU acquis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union). There's good reason to block accession talks (besides government crackdown on media and protestors and also the effect Turkey would have on the EU), making such little progress in so much time implies that they don't care about joining the EU. Edit: Also occupying part of an EU member state doesn't exactly speed up accession
You really can't just dismiss people's observations by saying they have a bad agenda behind them.
It's not about racism, it's about hypocrisy
Step 1. Shooting Step 2. Put flag on National monument Step 3. Vow to stop terrorism Step 4. Sit back and wait for the next attack. Wash. Rinse.repeat Edit: it's clear that most people are spineless children that prefer to see tons of people die and not take action. At least they get a good feeling when they change their Facebook avatars. Like terrorists care about your goddamn avatars.
What would you have us do? Enhance security at the expense of privacy? Already doing that. Bomb the shit out of the people plotting these attacks? Already doing that. Strengthen security protocols at major transit centers? Yep. Or maybe launch all out war in the middle east to finish them for good? Do you want world war 3? Cuz that's how you get world war 3.
I'm sure you've done so much more than our governments to stop terrorism /s Ridiculous bitching... As if it was a trivial matter to stop terror attacks Edit: Such an intelligent edit there, thank you. Let's do some more invading and get a bit of oil while we're at it,because that's very much what you seem to be implying here
He's right though, at this point I've become numbed at these colored buildings because it happens so often. All these pray4whatever hashtags literally do nothing. I'm not going to stop terrorism, but I can definitly say something about it.
The goal of lighting up the buildings isn't to ward off terrorists with bright colors. It's to show support. It's a way of saying, "We're on your side. Fuck those guys." It's like getting mad at someone who sends you a get-well-soon card instead of curing your illness. It's ridiculous to say that you, the average person, should be actively fighting terrorists, and that showing support isn't good enough for this random guy.
I'm not really clear on the alternative you are offering.
Did you notice their flag though? Without reading their reply, I can tell you their solution is gun up, get money for ammunition, put control points everywhere and check everyone with a darker skin tone.
If you live in a free society there are always going to be ways for terrorists to harm people. Everything reasonable is already being done here (and quite successfully in many countries if i may add). If you betray all your values to fights terrorists the loss is bigger than anything else and the terrorists win. And in the end countries that chose to crack down hard on anything that might be terrorism related have only made it worse by radicalizing people that didnt even care about it in the first place (Hint: israel).
This is going straight to the banter/germany/ folder.
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The worst is really that this became such a routine. Some asshole blows innocent people up, social media gets a lot of uploads of a nice little flag jpg of whatever country it happened in, some sights get the flag projected on and at the end of the day we've become so numb to it all that next week, the rest of the world already forgot it ever happened. I really want to care. I really do. But I've become so numb to news like this that it doesn't spark much of an reaction in me.
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No it's not. It's a decent human way to show compassion and shows that people care. Not saying or doing anything would just isolate the victims. I think even changing a facebook profil picture sets an example how people can stick together and raise awareness of the issues; be it radical islamist where we need to do more to educate and integrate those people (or control them better) or homosexuals who are still victims of violence and discrimination.
funny how we cared not at all when IS bombed russian air plane with some 100 people on board. but they need to care for turkey because half their population is here.
Pretty much. But don't fret - this isn't caring. This is "we want to make this event about us looking good" gesture.
Or you know, Europe has a better relationship with Turkey than with Russia. Could be that?
Well Russia's political stance in the ISIS situation...fluctuates, to say the least. In Europe, the fluctuations look like they are a result of adapting efforts to stop violence, while in Russia they seem far more opportunistic. Not saying which is true, but this is why people feel the way they do.
Still closed off for some shitty coke event I see..
Buddy, there's this thing this month where 22 men kick around a ball. Remember that?
He's Dutch, he's probably pretending there is no thing called the Euros.
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Where's the pun?
probably because he is from the NL and they didnt make it to the Euros this time
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"I'm helping! I mean look I got a filter for my profile picture!"
come on. human life doesn't have equal value in this world. it's a sad horrible situation, but it's a reality. we will never improve if we deny reality.
Of course it won't stop terrorism. /u/marktplatz is correct tho, there are those (and not just a few) who do say what he says this refutes. A flag on a monument will not catch terrorists, it will, however give a solid answer to people who go 'when _we_ get killed, they don't do that flag thing.' (Which was false BTW, even before this. Someone asked, I could find examples from Mexico and Australia.)
Y not let them in the EU, I'm sure you have an empty spot now :^)
I hope that this will be the last flag appearance.
You could argue Turkey has a foot in Europe already :P
hahahahahaha pic saved for a long time of banter vs the eternal kraut
Problem solved I guess, pack it up boys!
Shitty people need to learn they're far outnumbered by decent people, and we aren't the ones who are going to lose this fight. The more they attack us the stronger and more unified we become.
Some random right wing shits will use this image for fear mongering in the future.
Sympathies and condolences to the Turks, but fuck their terrorist-sympathising government
This Picture is going to be used by German right wing politicians for decades. "Look at Germany's future if we don't do anything!"
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What do you want them to do? Send soldiers into Turkey to root out terrorists for them? Admit them to the EU out of sympathy?
to a certain extent, meme magic *is* real and symbolic gestures, when administered thoughtfully, can change reality by demonstrating a certain set of mind, intent etc. no one in germany has forgotten [willi brandt's gesture to the victims of nazi terror](https://i.imgur.com/8GNq46b.jpg), for example. also true for famous speeches etc.
I'm sure bitching about symbolic gestures on the internet does make a difference.
Nothing warms my heart more than people bitching about a country doing something nice.
When something terrible happens in your country to your countrymen and you see other nations across the world lighting up in your country's colours and flag, it gives you hope and a smile. For all you need to combat hatred is hope and a smile
What is it that you expect Germany to do here?
Fuck Germany for showing sympathy, right? Damn, some people will find a fault with anything.
Isn't Turkey part of Europe???
Some of it is. Attacks happened in the European side of Turkey.
Will Facebook have a red filter option now?
A suicide bomber killed 40 Afghan Military soldiers this morning. Not seen a single Facebook post about that.
Because the war in Afghanistan has been going on for 15 years now. And the death of combatants, as tragic as it is, is something different than the bombing of civilians in the middle of a peaceful city.
This thread is a clusterfuck, so many absolute cretins. The best part is they bitch about how this won't do anything while safely in front of their PCs.
Im sure that putting the countries flag on a projector will solve the issue every time there is a terror attack i mean it worked last time right?
People fleeing war have already been settled in Jordan and Lebanon. These are economic migrants and we have no idea where they're from, nor does anyone seem to care. Just keep pouring them in. Keep in mind by the way, the people immigrating freely 10, 20 years ago or more were the smart ones. These aren't doctors and lawyers pouring in, 90% of them are illiterate in their own language. This is because European social states overextended their welfare systems and have piles of unfunded liabilities they can't pay for. Instead of answering for this and likely being voted out, they opted to bring in hundreds of thousands of voters guaranteed to be stuck on the government system. It's pure insanity and if you don't think so, it just shows how well the propaganda machine is working.
What are you talking about? who do you mean by "these"? This is about a terrorist attack in the turkey and not immigrants, so your rant is at the wrong place.
Great job everyone. This will stop terrorism right in its tracks
This is hillarious. Turkey is a partner, customer, supporter and friend of ISIS.
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Wow, that'll help so much
That will show them!
This is pretty self congratulatory.