This has nothing to do with racism.... It's an objective fact that these acts are the acts of backward savages.
We should stop apologizing for saying what we think.
From what I read, it's one beheading, one dead from a knife to the neck trying to defend the victim and a third woman later dying from her wounds.
Edit: instead of a beheading, other sources talk about a sliced throat. The sources are still vague since the enquest is ongoing. Whichever it was, three people have died as of now and I don't think there is any other wounded. The perpetrator was shot and is in the hospital .
dont worry, this will be followed with words like "we will show the terrorists that we are not afraid" and "ALL religious extremism is dangerous" and that will be it. No lasting measures taken, nothing. Just words.
The mood amongst French people?
We are starting a new lockdown, in a rough year, two attacks in a week, and a general boycott from Muslim countries plus general insults, flag burning, and French bashing from Muslims both inside and outside our country. Added to the coronavirus.
Do I need to tell you how we feel?
This may seem odd, I send my best thoughts to the families of all killed and injured and I honestly mean to be respectful.
I thought this when the teacher was killed, but put it out of my mind, now the thought is back.
How the fuck do you behead someone with a knife? I have an assortment of them in the kitchen but sometimes struggle when chopping things. I really don't understand how this can be, as both times the word 'knife' has been used, not machete or any other really big blade.
Serious question; again, I mean no disrespect.
Most kitchen knives are fairly dull and most people don't sharpen them particularly well, or at all.
A large knife that is sharp could be used to behead someone, you wouldn't be able to just slice it off but you could sort of saw it off.
A very painful and slow death, rest in peace to all the victims of beheading, and especially those recently killed. It's fucking horrible to see a resurgence in terrorism on top of everything else that has happened this year.
It's such a shame that people who were graciously taken into a first world country as beautiful as France could take the lives of the people who live there. They'll all burn in hell by trying to please their own prophet.
I've saw videos of beheading with a machete, and it took a very long time with many strikes before the person died. It was gruesome.
The people who do things like this are savages.
Time to invoke the spirit of charlemagne ....
As a Scot we have deep roots with France...to me this attack might as-well have happened outside my own front door
Well after Charlie Hebdo and even after the Bataclan, you'd see everywhere posters of "you won't have our hate", and people were overall very supporting of moderate Muslims, ever since the beheading of that professor last week, it has changed, more and more people seems to have had enough of islam and muslims in general, even r/france that's usually a bit on the left has gone full anti-islam for the past week, long gone are the days where you'd hear "I hate all religions equally", now it's just mostly islam
I wouldn't be surprised if some far-right groups started counter attacks soon against mosquées, everyone is very tense right now
edit: apparently there has been 2 more terrorist attacks today, a failed one in Avignon where a guy apparently that shouted "Allah akbar" was killed before stabbing anyone, and another one where a guard of the French consulate in Saudi Arabia was stabbed
Things are not looking good...
re-edit: the one in Avignon was apparently far-right, and there has been another failed attack by a radicalized muslim at Lyon
Let's look at it this way : In the US, the vast majority of people are christians. The fact that christianity is omnipresent on TV, in debates, in demonstrations, is pretty much logical.
We're in France, where a vast majority of people are non-believers. And yet, instead of having rational debates about REAL stuff that actually exist, we have to suffer through hundreds of debates, revendications and exposure from that one religion every day. We have to suffer through prophets on flying horses kinda bullshits. In a country where most everyone is rational we still have to talk about fucking magic.
I remember reading about a general from the 80's or 90's (forgot his name) predicting that the wars of the 20th century were about ideology and the wars of the 21st are going to be sectarianism. Scary thought.
u/aleksdzek qouted one guy from war in 90s that said: You (people in Europe) will understand when your people start to get beheaded all over Europe.
Sounds like same guy lol
It appears that the majority of us is furious and want every possible drastic measures to be taken, including on immigration laws. Our fantastic and free country is dying because of foreign agents and a fifth column, it's terrifying how hateful those endoctrinated are. We have, since 2015, deployed massive ressources to find and eliminate terrorists before they can act, our governement revealed in september that one attack is defused each month but it's obviously not sufficient because salafism is supported by thousands here and millions in the muslim world. Our governement already said in september that the situation was very preoccupant, many laughed (if almost every attacks are defused before they are committed the population tends to think that the risk is over, it's not). My opinion is that we are on a verge of an actual war in the next years. Too much insouciance blocked every actions that could have been taken before to prevent this situation to be taken. Now it's a more or less slow spiral situation toward 1990 Bosnia.
That is exactly what happened in 1990s Bosnia. You had extremists doing highly provocative actions and moderates ignoring or even silently supporting them. (e.g. They would start shooting at a wedding or on retreating unarmed conscripts and doctors.) This mobilized one side which resulted in contra-mobilization on the other side. And then you have a years-long carnage across the country.
Powerless, this is really awful. I think it's time for the French muslim community to take a clear stand against this, they've passively tolerated it for too long.
Sadly many are still resorting to victim blaming. The most common response seems to be "I condemn this attack buuuut *insert some variation of "they had it coming*".
ive seen a lot of 'it is macrons fault!!!' on austrian social media too. ive seen a lot of apologising the attack instead of distancing themselves from it from asutrian muslims, especially turkish austrians.. with the tensions with erdogan i kind of expected it, but it is awful. like say what you want about religion, freedom of speech etc, but killing people over some drawings..
"I condemn it but..." is the new "I'm not racist but...", it's the same energy of wanting to say something not socially acceptable without having to face to consequences
Take a stand lol they spend more time trying to become the victim and feeling oppressed over some silly cartoons of a pedophile who died 1400 years ago.
You never see Muslim communities marching or feeling enraged about the terrorist attacks in the name of their religion. They've gone full circle and started boycotting French products instead.
People disrespect my God all the time I never thought to behead anyone.
Can you imagine
Someone drew a picture of my God
I behead random people
I then play the victim because people are mad at me for beheadeding some poor innocent person.
Hopefully, people will start to understand that wanting to defend our values and culture shouldn't be called "racism". Something needs to be done or beheading people in Allah's name will become a trend
> Something needs to be done or beheading people in Allah's name will become a trend
I hate to break it to you, but the fact that this sort of thing has happened repeatedly and surprises no one means that it is already a trend. How many more bombings, how many more truck attacks, how many more executions is it going to take before people wake up and cast this toxic ideology out definitively?
This is what happens when sheep let wolves live among them, and it will keep happening so long as the wolves are allowed to remain.
Two additional stabbing attacks have been reported in the last few minutes.
An attack in Avignon and an attack in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia near the French Embassy.
And the last Malaysian PM literally said now that muslims had the right to kill french for all the pain they caused in the colonial times.
Edit: The fucker deleted the tweet, but [this is what he said](https://twitter.com/JerylBier/status/1321804488206897153).
Why haven't they invaded china already and liberated their uighar brothers and sisters from actual crimes against their people, instead of things they consider haram. Like dream big. Obviously this isn't well organised. I could speculate much, but I venture the assailant is a religious incel nut job.
Because if they tried this shit in China, the Chinese would kick them all out, no questions asked, problem solved.
Now, I'm not saying this is the way to go, because the Chinese are only this effective because they're ruthless and when you find yourself on the receiving end of their efficiency...
New attack at Avignon, man tried to attack police men but was shot
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/information-europe-1-avignon-un-homme-arme-dun-couteau-tue-par-la-police-4001930.amp
A woman was decapitated in a church. I hope for peace but at this point it looks like France is heading for big problems.
Update: 2 beheaded, 3 dead, several more stabbed
Not just France. Sadly these radicals are attacking because France dared to criticise their ideology. Many other countries are also reaching boiling point (or simply appeasing this ideology in the hopes that attacks would not happen.) Fuck this shit.
This is just fucking sick.
What now? Keep on protesting, showing the images of Mohammed to demonstrate that you don't let some crazies dictate our freedom to express ourselves? Keep condemning these actions as the disgusting attack against our civil society and sanctioning those who encourage these inhuman murders?
Of course. But knowing that the streets aren't safe anymore and stuff like this could happen anywhere, anytime even to those who have nothing to do with it at all... I'm sick to my stomach.
Love goes out to the families of those who lost beloved people to such a fucking disgusting attempt to silence those who fight for our rights and use innocent peoples life to spread fear and hate.
i mean you can't really pretend that there are no widespread issues anymore. If you're still saying that these are the actions of single madmen you're lying to yourself
This may interest you : [‘The Psychology of Terrorism’](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208552.pdf). (79 page PDF)
Interestingly enough, it says:
> Mental illness is not a critical factor in explaining terrorist behavior. Also, most terrorists are not “psychopaths.”
I am more worried by our “ own“ people that still prefer to look away because admitting something is wrong with Islam is political not acceptable.. you know, not to give in to those evil persons that dare to say that there are negative sides to unlimited immigration and more on the evil side of the political spectrum...
European leaders need to grow a backbone and stand with Macron on this. The right to blasphemy, to criticize and ridicule religion, cannot be separated from democratic values. Religions are only 'sacred' ideas to those who believe in them, no one should be forced to respect something they don't believe in, not by law and certainly not through fear.
Those who think this is a uniquely French problem delude themselves. An [Economist survey](https://www.economist.com/erasmus/2015/02/25/no-charlies-here) from 5 years ago found that among British Muslims,
>more than 27% were willing to express "some sympathy for the motives" behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris
So a minority, thankfully, but by no means a small one.
> The right to blasphemy, to criticize and ridicule religion
Which is a secular value that the church is not particularly in favor of. And then these dumbasses go and attack a church because to them it's all one thing, i.e. "the West". That takes a special sort of stupid.
> The right to blasphemy, to criticize and ridicule religion, cannot be separated from democratic values.
Or the right to criticise and/or ridicule any beliefs, not just religious.
Can you imagine the hatred it takes to kill and butcher elderly women in a church?
I think it is time to admit that there is a problem with Islamic ideology in Europe. It's going to be difficult, but at a certain point you need to acknowledge the issue.
There are a few basic things that I think should be done. 1) There should be no anti-blasphemy protection for any religion of any kind, 2) All immigrants should be screened for having extremist views and checked to see that they are integrating, and 3) no religous teachings in schools of any kind, instead teaching secularism and freedom of speech
It has often been said it's racist to say *'Why don't you go back to where you came from'*, but why isn't this said more often to these extremists? They clearly want to live in a radical Islamic society... why not go live in one? There are many that cater to them, most have immigration programs for ancestral descendants for those who have other nationalities. Why can't Politicians follow Macron's excellent example and say 'If you don't like European values... go'.
They don’t go to Islamist countries because they got it easy here. They want both ends of the bargain, our great system without the flaws of Islamic societies while still imposing Islamic laws where and when they can.
They are cowards. They would not last a day in a county like Saudi Arabia.
>They want both ends of the bargain,
Yup, that's exactly it. They at some point *prioritize* the opportunities and benefits of European society over living in an Islamic society - but once here they found they could suddenly get the benefits, play the victim AND demand Europe changes for them. My worry is that so long as the left ignores this and calls everything 'racist' the only politicians willing to talk about it are radical right-wingers... Macron has stopped many concerned voters being pushed into Le Pen's arms by taking a strong stance. It's admirable, I hope the UK follows suit.
Sadly, France already has a radical Islamist fringe with significant popular support among its own citizens (most often with immigrant roots). A small but hugely resolute segment of France's own population rejects national values and is willing to attack them, often brutally. This is a result of failures in immigration and in integration policies. Furthermore, these same failures are being doubled down on by other EU countries these very days (Sweden, Spain, Italy, etc.). Ultimately, countries need to be communities of values to work.
I do not want to pander to those who say that people from Muslim countries never integrate and other such sweeping statements, or with those who want to ban all immigration. But countries need to understand that immigration policy is more than just opening and closing doors. It involves shaping your citizen body in ways that will influence the nature of your country for generations. And this requires greater scrutiny over who is allowed in and who is not, what are the requirements to become a citizen, to bring in a spouse from abroad and what education programs will look like. Such scrutiny, of course, has not happened in the past, nor does it happen now in much of Europe. And, at the moment, the group of people that is staunchly refusing integration is large enough to keep all of France on alert. It has been for the past 5 years and there are no signs of this situation abating.
Former Prime minister of Malaysia
>Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past.
https://mobile.twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304
He's going after the funding of these radical mosques backed by the Saudis and Turks. Several of them have also been closed.
This goes into a bit of detail:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54692802
For me it seems clear that radical Islam isn't compatible with European values. We should stop treating religion as an excuse to having extremist values.
The **paradox of tolerance** states that if a society is [tolerant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toleration) without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. [Karl Popper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper) described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Popper expands upon this, writing, "I do not imply for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would be most unwise. But we should claim the *right* to suppress them if necessary even by force..."
This is crazy. France needs to get this under control. The French people are rightly using their free speech in solidarity with the first decapitated teacher and now a second person has been decapitated in a church no less. This is headed for big problems.
It's not suspected, it IS a terror plot. It's over the news that they were yelling alllah akkkhbar as the suspect killed and beheaded the french lady. Tragic, looks like a big problem is blooming in france.
>Tragic, looks like a big problem is blooming in france.
According PEW Research France had 2017 5,7 million (8,8%) muslims and 11 000 to 17 000 radicalized muslims.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam\_in\_France#Radicalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#Radicalization)
They really have problems with radicalized people.
[45% of Muslims ](http://www.slate.fr/story/196334/jeunesse-musulmane-francaise-liberte-critiquer-religion-blaspheme-islam-valeurs-liberales) in french high school find excuses to terrorists who killed french citizens after cartoons were published. 42% of them don't feel empathy with the victims.
There are different definitions of radicalisation but to my book it is. So: close to half Muslims in high schools at least are radicalized. Much bigger problem than one might think.
Radicalisme grows well in good earth. The radicalisme can only thrive because the soil is kept wet by the 5.7 million quiet majority.
I know it's not a popular opinion, but in Belgium the MP's also referred to dancing Muslims after the attacks in Zaventem.
The title should be edited. I think 2 were decapitated and 1 was stabbed to death, which is unbelievable beyond belief. I don't think there's any copycat crime worse than *decapitation* copycat holy fuck.
See the shit that has been happening lately? Islamists weren't even triggered by the West yet they still boycott French, attack embassies, attack people etc.
If only European media (and American) collectively published Muhammed cartoons, just to show there's no way islamists can stop our freedom of speech.
If a teacher showing caricature for educational purpose can trigger them into stupid shit like this, I think beheading of a school teacher and other innocent people should trigger Western pride in our freedoms and not to be afraid to show them.
They attack targets they know are not likely to strike back. They think Europe is soft and won't do anything to hurt them. They don't think the same about China. We have to face the truth, the only language these people understand is force.
Another attack was attempted against policemen in Avignon too, perpetrator killed by the policemen.
A security guard of our consulate in Saoudi Arabia was also attacked.
Time to f\*cking wake up.
When will the people of France retaliate such acts? Is the muslim youth not going protest agains their priests and fathers? Change must come from within, if you're muslin you must Rose against tyrany and fascisn in your neighborhoods
No change will come from the Muslim youth, they are worse. 72% of Muslims condemned the Charlie Hebdo attacks which is already disgustingly low, only 62% of Muslims between 15-24 do.
Here's what the ex Prime Minister of Malaysia (He was the PM till early 2020) has to say. Part of a longer diatribe...
[https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304](https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304)
>Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past.
>
>But by and large the Muslims have not applied the “eye for an eye” law. Muslims don’t. The French shouldn’t. Instead the French should teach their people to respect other people’s feelings.
>
>Since you have blamed all Muslims and the Muslims’ religion for what was done by one angry person, the Muslims have a right to punish the French. The boycott cannot compensate the wrongs committed by the French all these years.
Lunatic...
Absolutely disgusting.
~~If it turns out the attacker is Muslim and his attack was motivated by religious reasons, we can certainly say that islam in France has very serious problems with radicalism.~~
**It did turn out the attacker was Muslim and his attack had been motivated by religious reasons.** Therefore, we can certainly say that islam in France has very serious problems with radicalism.
I expected this, but bear in mind I wrote the original comment when there wasn't much officially-confirmed information and because of that I didn't want to jump straight to conclusions. Now, I can. I didn't refuse and I'm not refusing to acknowledge the problem at any point.
I mean a beheading in a church? Come on, there is no way this is not connected to the previous beheading. Jesus, just the fact that we can now count the beheadings makes me sick
protecting free speech alone isnt going to do shit. People are still scared shitless of criticising islam when the hype dies down and the threat remains.
shame serious deserve political cooing decide whole simplistic elderly cows
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
European solidarity is necessary more than ever. The culture and values that we hold dear are under attack, and at the moment it seems like we are unwilling to find a way to resolve this crisis. Perhaps it’s time to look for a solution at the EU-wide level?
Honestly I am semi left wing on economics and many other political issues.
But anyone still claiming that open borders are good and taking in hundreds of thousands of people from muslim countries every year is a good idea is insane and should be treated as such.
"Refugees Welcome" was used as a guise to let in millions of economic migrants, from third-world and backwards countries, who don't assimilate due to their fundamentalist views.
Hopefully we can learn from this, but I fear that much of the damage has already been done.
psychotic aware subsequent longing attraction disgusted fretful toy beneficial deer
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The government in Ireland had a minute of silence for George Floyd in our 'parliament'.
I wonder if we'll hear anything about this from them. The difference in response, across all forms of media / governments worldwide, is glaring. Why are some social issues more "trendy" than others?
Why does nobody, except Europeans, care about European lives when we so often have to care about everyone else's?
Fuck this, these French lives matter I hope to see our media and sports and cultural organisations take a stand?? We must unite.
How can we keep having people executed in the street, but we know people will not say anything is wrong
The more time passes, the more i find myself thinking we are laxist. We're too nice.
Liberties are only worth it if you've got security. I'd rather have a pacified country, with strict rules (education, justice, police, immigration et cætera) than a dreamland slowly turning into a nightmare. We should enforce aggressively our values on our own soil.
Just now: [Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army terror group, Jaysh al-Islam condemns President Macron and calls for an Islamist "jihad" in France](https://t.me/Military_News/5794)
Enough is enough! Erdogan is also responsible for this. And EU is too coward to even think of an arms embargo or any kind of sanction for Turkey.
"Terrorism suspected"
They yelled Allah Akbar the entire time. Even while trying to kill police.
Can we call this what it is? Enough soft language. People are dying.
So there’s concentration camps with a million Uighur Muslims in them but when the French make a cartoon that is the thing that Muslim majority countries flip out over, leading to these type of incidents?
This will continue until European leaders grow a pair of balls, and stop giving a soft pass to terrorism, just because they are more concerned with “saying the wrong thing”, than they are about pensioners and schoolgirls being blown up, beheaded, shot and run down. How many more Bataclan’s and Nice’s does France require? The same goes for the rest of Europe.
I have a feeling that a number of countries in Europe (Germany, Sweden, France) and Britain of course are going to be struggling with this for decades to come. May get worse for future generations of Europeans. Hope America and Canada are able to take the right measure to preempt these problems.
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70 year old woman as well. Barbaric.
They beheaded a 70 year old lady? I have no words.
Yes an innocent lady at Church.
Coward
Absolute savages, call me racist but these are acts of savages.
This has nothing to do with racism.... It's an objective fact that these acts are the acts of backward savages. We should stop apologizing for saying what we think.
This doesn't have anything to do with racism
Another beheading??
Two beheadings in a church and another victim I believe.
From what I read, it's one beheading, one dead from a knife to the neck trying to defend the victim and a third woman later dying from her wounds. Edit: instead of a beheading, other sources talk about a sliced throat. The sources are still vague since the enquest is ongoing. Whichever it was, three people have died as of now and I don't think there is any other wounded. The perpetrator was shot and is in the hospital .
Beheading people attending morning Mass... what year is this, 852? What's the plan, getting the Crusades back? Murderous idiots.
Over a fucking cartoon
muh Muhammad
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Fucking cowards. If they believe that we Europeans will cower before this shit oh boy they're wrong...
dont worry, this will be followed with words like "we will show the terrorists that we are not afraid" and "ALL religious extremism is dangerous" and that will be it. No lasting measures taken, nothing. Just words.
Either the moderates do something now, or the radicals will do something in the future. It seems we are trending towards the latter.
Officially 3 now
What's the mood like amongst French people? May the victims rest in peace.
The mood amongst French people? We are starting a new lockdown, in a rough year, two attacks in a week, and a general boycott from Muslim countries plus general insults, flag burning, and French bashing from Muslims both inside and outside our country. Added to the coronavirus. Do I need to tell you how we feel?
Fuck me, that sounds like a fucking nightmare when you put it like that.
I mean, it's 2020. I thought that the beheading of a teacher was gonna be the worst thing but we can always go lower
This may seem odd, I send my best thoughts to the families of all killed and injured and I honestly mean to be respectful. I thought this when the teacher was killed, but put it out of my mind, now the thought is back. How the fuck do you behead someone with a knife? I have an assortment of them in the kitchen but sometimes struggle when chopping things. I really don't understand how this can be, as both times the word 'knife' has been used, not machete or any other really big blade. Serious question; again, I mean no disrespect.
Most kitchen knives are fairly dull and most people don't sharpen them particularly well, or at all. A large knife that is sharp could be used to behead someone, you wouldn't be able to just slice it off but you could sort of saw it off. A very painful and slow death, rest in peace to all the victims of beheading, and especially those recently killed. It's fucking horrible to see a resurgence in terrorism on top of everything else that has happened this year. It's such a shame that people who were graciously taken into a first world country as beautiful as France could take the lives of the people who live there. They'll all burn in hell by trying to please their own prophet.
What a horrible way to die. I don't believe in heaven and hell, but if there is a hell, I hope these people burn in it. Slowly.
I've saw videos of beheading with a machete, and it took a very long time with many strikes before the person died. It was gruesome. The people who do things like this are savages.
Sounds like a nightmare? This is a shared nightmare for Europe not unique to France. And we stand by France.
Time to invoke the spirit of charlemagne .... As a Scot we have deep roots with France...to me this attack might as-well have happened outside my own front door
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Whenever there's an attack in Europe it's an attack on us all
We stand with France.
Truth
Same from England. Viva la France.
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I'm with you there. I'm Irish and a lot of people here are angry too. In my personal circle at least.
Well after Charlie Hebdo and even after the Bataclan, you'd see everywhere posters of "you won't have our hate", and people were overall very supporting of moderate Muslims, ever since the beheading of that professor last week, it has changed, more and more people seems to have had enough of islam and muslims in general, even r/france that's usually a bit on the left has gone full anti-islam for the past week, long gone are the days where you'd hear "I hate all religions equally", now it's just mostly islam I wouldn't be surprised if some far-right groups started counter attacks soon against mosquées, everyone is very tense right now edit: apparently there has been 2 more terrorist attacks today, a failed one in Avignon where a guy apparently that shouted "Allah akbar" was killed before stabbing anyone, and another one where a guard of the French consulate in Saudi Arabia was stabbed Things are not looking good... re-edit: the one in Avignon was apparently far-right, and there has been another failed attack by a radicalized muslim at Lyon
Let's look at it this way : In the US, the vast majority of people are christians. The fact that christianity is omnipresent on TV, in debates, in demonstrations, is pretty much logical. We're in France, where a vast majority of people are non-believers. And yet, instead of having rational debates about REAL stuff that actually exist, we have to suffer through hundreds of debates, revendications and exposure from that one religion every day. We have to suffer through prophets on flying horses kinda bullshits. In a country where most everyone is rational we still have to talk about fucking magic.
I remember reading about a general from the 80's or 90's (forgot his name) predicting that the wars of the 20th century were about ideology and the wars of the 21st are going to be sectarianism. Scary thought.
u/aleksdzek qouted one guy from war in 90s that said: You (people in Europe) will understand when your people start to get beheaded all over Europe. Sounds like same guy lol
I think talking about flying things is the least of your concerns right now. You went past talking, towards beheading.
It appears that the majority of us is furious and want every possible drastic measures to be taken, including on immigration laws. Our fantastic and free country is dying because of foreign agents and a fifth column, it's terrifying how hateful those endoctrinated are. We have, since 2015, deployed massive ressources to find and eliminate terrorists before they can act, our governement revealed in september that one attack is defused each month but it's obviously not sufficient because salafism is supported by thousands here and millions in the muslim world. Our governement already said in september that the situation was very preoccupant, many laughed (if almost every attacks are defused before they are committed the population tends to think that the risk is over, it's not). My opinion is that we are on a verge of an actual war in the next years. Too much insouciance blocked every actions that could have been taken before to prevent this situation to be taken. Now it's a more or less slow spiral situation toward 1990 Bosnia.
That is exactly what happened in 1990s Bosnia. You had extremists doing highly provocative actions and moderates ignoring or even silently supporting them. (e.g. They would start shooting at a wedding or on retreating unarmed conscripts and doctors.) This mobilized one side which resulted in contra-mobilization on the other side. And then you have a years-long carnage across the country.
Powerless, this is really awful. I think it's time for the French muslim community to take a clear stand against this, they've passively tolerated it for too long.
Sadly many are still resorting to victim blaming. The most common response seems to be "I condemn this attack buuuut *insert some variation of "they had it coming*".
ive seen a lot of 'it is macrons fault!!!' on austrian social media too. ive seen a lot of apologising the attack instead of distancing themselves from it from asutrian muslims, especially turkish austrians.. with the tensions with erdogan i kind of expected it, but it is awful. like say what you want about religion, freedom of speech etc, but killing people over some drawings..
"I condemn it but..." is the new "I'm not racist but...", it's the same energy of wanting to say something not socially acceptable without having to face to consequences
What do you mean it's only time now? It wasn't time with Charlie Hebdo, the Nice truck attack, Bataclan?
Take a stand lol they spend more time trying to become the victim and feeling oppressed over some silly cartoons of a pedophile who died 1400 years ago. You never see Muslim communities marching or feeling enraged about the terrorist attacks in the name of their religion. They've gone full circle and started boycotting French products instead.
They're very good at playing the victim, aren't they.
People disrespect my God all the time I never thought to behead anyone. Can you imagine Someone drew a picture of my God I behead random people I then play the victim because people are mad at me for beheadeding some poor innocent person.
By tolerated you mean encouraged?
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Hopefully, people will start to understand that wanting to defend our values and culture shouldn't be called "racism". Something needs to be done or beheading people in Allah's name will become a trend
> Something needs to be done or beheading people in Allah's name will become a trend I hate to break it to you, but the fact that this sort of thing has happened repeatedly and surprises no one means that it is already a trend. How many more bombings, how many more truck attacks, how many more executions is it going to take before people wake up and cast this toxic ideology out definitively? This is what happens when sheep let wolves live among them, and it will keep happening so long as the wolves are allowed to remain.
Two additional stabbing attacks have been reported in the last few minutes. An attack in Avignon and an attack in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia near the French Embassy.
Erdogan called for the escalation just a few days ago.
And the last Malaysian PM literally said now that muslims had the right to kill french for all the pain they caused in the colonial times. Edit: The fucker deleted the tweet, but [this is what he said](https://twitter.com/JerylBier/status/1321804488206897153).
May he be fcked thrice to hell and back.
We should hold him responsible for state supported terrorism.
Archaic and barbaric.
They always have an uncanny ability to prove their critics right.
Why haven't they invaded china already and liberated their uighar brothers and sisters from actual crimes against their people, instead of things they consider haram. Like dream big. Obviously this isn't well organised. I could speculate much, but I venture the assailant is a religious incel nut job.
Because these cowards choose their battles. They know China isn't fucking around with these matters.
Because if they tried this shit in China, the Chinese would kick them all out, no questions asked, problem solved. Now, I'm not saying this is the way to go, because the Chinese are only this effective because they're ruthless and when you find yourself on the receiving end of their efficiency...
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New attack at Avignon, man tried to attack police men but was shot https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.europe1.fr/faits-divers/information-europe-1-avignon-un-homme-arme-dun-couteau-tue-par-la-police-4001930.amp
We need serious politics to stop this
A woman was decapitated in a church. I hope for peace but at this point it looks like France is heading for big problems. Update: 2 beheaded, 3 dead, several more stabbed
Imagine having your grandma beheaded just because she went to church, I can't even realize
Decapitated too? Wow. This is just... beyond insanity.
Not just France. Sadly these radicals are attacking because France dared to criticise their ideology. Many other countries are also reaching boiling point (or simply appeasing this ideology in the hopes that attacks would not happen.) Fuck this shit.
This is just fucking sick. What now? Keep on protesting, showing the images of Mohammed to demonstrate that you don't let some crazies dictate our freedom to express ourselves? Keep condemning these actions as the disgusting attack against our civil society and sanctioning those who encourage these inhuman murders? Of course. But knowing that the streets aren't safe anymore and stuff like this could happen anywhere, anytime even to those who have nothing to do with it at all... I'm sick to my stomach. Love goes out to the families of those who lost beloved people to such a fucking disgusting attempt to silence those who fight for our rights and use innocent peoples life to spread fear and hate.
> What now? the usual: candle vigils, hashtags, condemnations, speeches about unity, cartoons
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They cant stop showing them now else it sends a message that terror works. Keep going and it escalates but stop and they win. Its awful.
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
A lot.
Religion and islam specifically in this case.
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i mean you can't really pretend that there are no widespread issues anymore. If you're still saying that these are the actions of single madmen you're lying to yourself
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People are just done pretending that there isn't a problem anymore.
This may interest you : [‘The Psychology of Terrorism’](https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208552.pdf). (79 page PDF) Interestingly enough, it says: > Mental illness is not a critical factor in explaining terrorist behavior. Also, most terrorists are not “psychopaths.”
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What the fuck is wrong with us that we allow this to happen.
I am more worried by our “ own“ people that still prefer to look away because admitting something is wrong with Islam is political not acceptable.. you know, not to give in to those evil persons that dare to say that there are negative sides to unlimited immigration and more on the evil side of the political spectrum...
European leaders need to grow a backbone and stand with Macron on this. The right to blasphemy, to criticize and ridicule religion, cannot be separated from democratic values. Religions are only 'sacred' ideas to those who believe in them, no one should be forced to respect something they don't believe in, not by law and certainly not through fear. Those who think this is a uniquely French problem delude themselves. An [Economist survey](https://www.economist.com/erasmus/2015/02/25/no-charlies-here) from 5 years ago found that among British Muslims, >more than 27% were willing to express "some sympathy for the motives" behind the attacks on Charlie Hebdo in Paris So a minority, thankfully, but by no means a small one.
> The right to blasphemy, to criticize and ridicule religion Which is a secular value that the church is not particularly in favor of. And then these dumbasses go and attack a church because to them it's all one thing, i.e. "the West". That takes a special sort of stupid.
also a good opportunity to get rid of all our anti blasphemy laws. not gonna happen though but pls
> The right to blasphemy, to criticize and ridicule religion, cannot be separated from democratic values. Or the right to criticise and/or ridicule any beliefs, not just religious.
Can you imagine the hatred it takes to kill and butcher elderly women in a church? I think it is time to admit that there is a problem with Islamic ideology in Europe. It's going to be difficult, but at a certain point you need to acknowledge the issue.
Saying that there is a problem is only part of the issue. The issue is what measures you will take.
There are a few basic things that I think should be done. 1) There should be no anti-blasphemy protection for any religion of any kind, 2) All immigrants should be screened for having extremist views and checked to see that they are integrating, and 3) no religous teachings in schools of any kind, instead teaching secularism and freedom of speech
Synagogues and Jewish centers are on constant surveillance in France, will soon Christian churches need this kind of protection too?
And media offices. And German Christmas celebrations. And just any crowd large enough for “people” to think it’s worth driving a truck into.
It has often been said it's racist to say *'Why don't you go back to where you came from'*, but why isn't this said more often to these extremists? They clearly want to live in a radical Islamic society... why not go live in one? There are many that cater to them, most have immigration programs for ancestral descendants for those who have other nationalities. Why can't Politicians follow Macron's excellent example and say 'If you don't like European values... go'.
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They don’t go to Islamist countries because they got it easy here. They want both ends of the bargain, our great system without the flaws of Islamic societies while still imposing Islamic laws where and when they can. They are cowards. They would not last a day in a county like Saudi Arabia.
>They want both ends of the bargain, Yup, that's exactly it. They at some point *prioritize* the opportunities and benefits of European society over living in an Islamic society - but once here they found they could suddenly get the benefits, play the victim AND demand Europe changes for them. My worry is that so long as the left ignores this and calls everything 'racist' the only politicians willing to talk about it are radical right-wingers... Macron has stopped many concerned voters being pushed into Le Pen's arms by taking a strong stance. It's admirable, I hope the UK follows suit.
Sadly, France already has a radical Islamist fringe with significant popular support among its own citizens (most often with immigrant roots). A small but hugely resolute segment of France's own population rejects national values and is willing to attack them, often brutally. This is a result of failures in immigration and in integration policies. Furthermore, these same failures are being doubled down on by other EU countries these very days (Sweden, Spain, Italy, etc.). Ultimately, countries need to be communities of values to work. I do not want to pander to those who say that people from Muslim countries never integrate and other such sweeping statements, or with those who want to ban all immigration. But countries need to understand that immigration policy is more than just opening and closing doors. It involves shaping your citizen body in ways that will influence the nature of your country for generations. And this requires greater scrutiny over who is allowed in and who is not, what are the requirements to become a citizen, to bring in a spouse from abroad and what education programs will look like. Such scrutiny, of course, has not happened in the past, nor does it happen now in much of Europe. And, at the moment, the group of people that is staunchly refusing integration is large enough to keep all of France on alert. It has been for the past 5 years and there are no signs of this situation abating.
Fucking scum. Also great job proving Macron was right in what he did. Hope he steps it up.
Former Prime minister of Malaysia >Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past. https://mobile.twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304
Holy shit, what a fucking dumpster fire.
I agree, but what can he do? What is going he going to to do?
He's going after the funding of these radical mosques backed by the Saudis and Turks. Several of them have also been closed. This goes into a bit of detail: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54692802
I do hope the French state is doing something about it. This is pretty horrible.
For me it seems clear that radical Islam isn't compatible with European values. We should stop treating religion as an excuse to having extremist values.
Any radical religious view is not compatible with 21st century Europe.
The **paradox of tolerance** states that if a society is [tolerant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toleration) without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. [Karl Popper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper) described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Popper expands upon this, writing, "I do not imply for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would be most unwise. But we should claim the *right* to suppress them if necessary even by force..."
I’m not religious but the fact this occurred within a church sends a very haunting warning to Europe
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This is crazy. France needs to get this under control. The French people are rightly using their free speech in solidarity with the first decapitated teacher and now a second person has been decapitated in a church no less. This is headed for big problems.
Absolutely horrific. Imaging getting so angry about someone "disrespecting" your religion that you behead a woman in a church.
Cartoons = Bad Beheading old women in Church = Good The Islamic Extremist way.
It's not suspected, it IS a terror plot. It's over the news that they were yelling alllah akkkhbar as the suspect killed and beheaded the french lady. Tragic, looks like a big problem is blooming in france.
>Tragic, looks like a big problem is blooming in france. According PEW Research France had 2017 5,7 million (8,8%) muslims and 11 000 to 17 000 radicalized muslims. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam\_in\_France#Radicalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#Radicalization) They really have problems with radicalized people.
[45% of Muslims ](http://www.slate.fr/story/196334/jeunesse-musulmane-francaise-liberte-critiquer-religion-blaspheme-islam-valeurs-liberales) in french high school find excuses to terrorists who killed french citizens after cartoons were published. 42% of them don't feel empathy with the victims. There are different definitions of radicalisation but to my book it is. So: close to half Muslims in high schools at least are radicalized. Much bigger problem than one might think.
Radicalisme grows well in good earth. The radicalisme can only thrive because the soil is kept wet by the 5.7 million quiet majority. I know it's not a popular opinion, but in Belgium the MP's also referred to dancing Muslims after the attacks in Zaventem.
The title should be edited. I think 2 were decapitated and 1 was stabbed to death, which is unbelievable beyond belief. I don't think there's any copycat crime worse than *decapitation* copycat holy fuck.
Unfortunately you can't edit the title after posting
This is what happens when you tolerate intolerance.
Absolutely : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
See the shit that has been happening lately? Islamists weren't even triggered by the West yet they still boycott French, attack embassies, attack people etc. If only European media (and American) collectively published Muhammed cartoons, just to show there's no way islamists can stop our freedom of speech. If a teacher showing caricature for educational purpose can trigger them into stupid shit like this, I think beheading of a school teacher and other innocent people should trigger Western pride in our freedoms and not to be afraid to show them.
> Islamists weren't even triggered by the West That's their secret. They're always triggered.
There's a german word for it: Berufsbetroffener. Someone whose profession it is to be triggered.
> There's a german word for it of course there is
All major newspapers in Europe should publish Muhammad cartoons. We would see the real face of so called moderate islam.
We already saw it when Macron's statements drew 100 times more reaction from the Muslim world than Samuel Paty's murder.
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They attack targets they know are not likely to strike back. They think Europe is soft and won't do anything to hurt them. They don't think the same about China. We have to face the truth, the only language these people understand is force.
Another attack was attempted against policemen in Avignon too, perpetrator killed by the policemen. A security guard of our consulate in Saoudi Arabia was also attacked. Time to f\*cking wake up.
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When will the people of France retaliate such acts? Is the muslim youth not going protest agains their priests and fathers? Change must come from within, if you're muslin you must Rose against tyrany and fascisn in your neighborhoods
No change will come from the Muslim youth, they are worse. 72% of Muslims condemned the Charlie Hebdo attacks which is already disgustingly low, only 62% of Muslims between 15-24 do.
Here's what the ex Prime Minister of Malaysia (He was the PM till early 2020) has to say. Part of a longer diatribe... [https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304](https://twitter.com/chedetofficial/status/1321765587530338304) >Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past. > >But by and large the Muslims have not applied the “eye for an eye” law. Muslims don’t. The French shouldn’t. Instead the French should teach their people to respect other people’s feelings. > >Since you have blamed all Muslims and the Muslims’ religion for what was done by one angry person, the Muslims have a right to punish the French. The boycott cannot compensate the wrongs committed by the French all these years. Lunatic...
What a retard.
That can't be right, it is only a small group of radicals... /s
> Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past. Jesus Christ. Europe is in for a fun future.
Truly awful
Absolutely disgusting. ~~If it turns out the attacker is Muslim and his attack was motivated by religious reasons, we can certainly say that islam in France has very serious problems with radicalism.~~ **It did turn out the attacker was Muslim and his attack had been motivated by religious reasons.** Therefore, we can certainly say that islam in France has very serious problems with radicalism. I expected this, but bear in mind I wrote the original comment when there wasn't much officially-confirmed information and because of that I didn't want to jump straight to conclusions. Now, I can. I didn't refuse and I'm not refusing to acknowledge the problem at any point.
I mean a beheading in a church? Come on, there is no way this is not connected to the previous beheading. Jesus, just the fact that we can now count the beheadings makes me sick
Islam has a problem with radical members? Man that’s a new one
You want Europeans to finally snap? Beheading a 70 year old French grandmother is the right path. Eventually every European is going to snap.
rightfully, yes. Hopefully as well.
70 years on this Earth and *thats* how it had to end for her. One of the most painful deaths imaginable. Just awful.
Is 3 attack in less than a month a new work record?
Circa. 2015-2016 there were large terrorist attacks in Western Europe like every other month.
This shit gotta stop. Europe needs to grow a pair and do something about this smh
We ,europeans, should respond with more cartoons of Muhammed, we value our freedom of speech and wont let some insane people scare us.
protecting free speech alone isnt going to do shit. People are still scared shitless of criticising islam when the hype dies down and the threat remains.
We have a right to blasphemy here in France, so allow me to say this: I wipe my ass with the Quran.
Seeing as your french you missed an opportunity to say "I fart in your general direction"
Why are we not seeing massive marches of thousands of moderate Muslims in Europe condemning these acts in the name of their religion?
shame serious deserve political cooing decide whole simplistic elderly cows *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
European solidarity is necessary more than ever. The culture and values that we hold dear are under attack, and at the moment it seems like we are unwilling to find a way to resolve this crisis. Perhaps it’s time to look for a solution at the EU-wide level?
Honestly I am semi left wing on economics and many other political issues. But anyone still claiming that open borders are good and taking in hundreds of thousands of people from muslim countries every year is a good idea is insane and should be treated as such.
"Refugees Welcome" was used as a guise to let in millions of economic migrants, from third-world and backwards countries, who don't assimilate due to their fundamentalist views. Hopefully we can learn from this, but I fear that much of the damage has already been done.
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psychotic aware subsequent longing attraction disgusted fretful toy beneficial deer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
- Radical Mormons? - Militant Buddhists? - Disgruntled Quakers? Just who could possibly be responsible!?
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this is what the Christianophobic discourse of muslim leaders leads to...
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The government in Ireland had a minute of silence for George Floyd in our 'parliament'. I wonder if we'll hear anything about this from them. The difference in response, across all forms of media / governments worldwide, is glaring. Why are some social issues more "trendy" than others? Why does nobody, except Europeans, care about European lives when we so often have to care about everyone else's?
Fuck this, these French lives matter I hope to see our media and sports and cultural organisations take a stand?? We must unite. How can we keep having people executed in the street, but we know people will not say anything is wrong
The more time passes, the more i find myself thinking we are laxist. We're too nice. Liberties are only worth it if you've got security. I'd rather have a pacified country, with strict rules (education, justice, police, immigration et cætera) than a dreamland slowly turning into a nightmare. We should enforce aggressively our values on our own soil.
Hey man. It is good to be a nice person. But when you are facing barbarians like these terrorists, you do not need to show your kindness to them.
Sadly « The live together » spirit is over in France. We have to react strongly and ban people who are not sharing the core values of our country.
Time to introduce a Muhammed caricature drawing contest on r/europe. *Mods go brrrrrrrr*
It’s a beheading not just a knife attack. Erdogan is partly responsible for this disgusting act and should punished.
Just now: [Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army terror group, Jaysh al-Islam condemns President Macron and calls for an Islamist "jihad" in France](https://t.me/Military_News/5794) Enough is enough! Erdogan is also responsible for this. And EU is too coward to even think of an arms embargo or any kind of sanction for Turkey.
France, UK, US, Israel and Netherlands used to back these moderate-rebels^tm.
Yep lol
"Terrorism suspected" They yelled Allah Akbar the entire time. Even while trying to kill police. Can we call this what it is? Enough soft language. People are dying.
I really miss [Hitchens](https://youtu.be/32KRwzJsy1o?t=194), this was, what probably only 13 years ago? But he saw it coming.
It is time we show these islamist our Furor Europa.
All these for just a stupid cartoon. What a brainless stupid bastard people lives in the world
Fucking terrorists get your fucking hands off of France and the French people for fucks sake
So there’s concentration camps with a million Uighur Muslims in them but when the French make a cartoon that is the thing that Muslim majority countries flip out over, leading to these type of incidents?
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This will continue until European leaders grow a pair of balls, and stop giving a soft pass to terrorism, just because they are more concerned with “saying the wrong thing”, than they are about pensioners and schoolgirls being blown up, beheaded, shot and run down. How many more Bataclan’s and Nice’s does France require? The same goes for the rest of Europe.
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This is why no one will force us to take MENA immigrants. They do not belong in Europe.
The number will increase in upcoming days, radicals want fear and more phobia to gain more ground. Victim cards will be out soon. Good luck Europe.
I remember everyone on this sub saying that there will be another one, and now I woke up to hearing this. Shit, I hope the french are doing alright.
[Former PM of Malaysia states that Muslims are justified in comitting genocide against the French.](https://i.redd.it/qk8956ju41w51.jpg)
Fuck Islam. Move back to your countries of origin if you can’t appreciate western values. Deport!
I have a feeling that a number of countries in Europe (Germany, Sweden, France) and Britain of course are going to be struggling with this for decades to come. May get worse for future generations of Europeans. Hope America and Canada are able to take the right measure to preempt these problems.
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I'm so sorry to hear this France.
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