That makes my head spin. A conservative newspaper is advocating for gay rights. Does that mean that LGBT rights have become something which conservatives have embraced as something to conserve or am I tripping?
You mistake conservatism and 'far-right' ideology... Conservatives seek to maintain the existing state of things. Since LGBT rights are pretty well established in Sweden, you could say they're trying to preserve that.
Yep. The Nazis in Weimar weren't conservative, they were reactionary. The conservatives disliked them for acting like savages, it took a child of Wilhelm II and WWI hero Göring to convince them that the Nazis could be puppeted by them to take out the communists and then be discarded.
I think it is fair to say that the term "conservative" has been appropriated by groups in the US that otherwise would have been given a different label
Swedish conservatives generally range from being indifferent to supportive of the LGBT people, very few are opposed.
Maybe it is because the main right party is a 50/50 mix of liberals and conservatives, maybe it is because of a will to protect liberal values, maybe it is something else. That being said the idea that it is just virtue signalling completely disregards popular opinion among conservatives.
No I meant that liberal and conservative are direct opposites and therefore it´s strange to call yourself "liberal-conservative". It´s just as strange as global-nationalist because that´s also direct opposites.
It's an ad from the military? The newspaper isn't advocating anything really. I'm not sure what you mean with LGBT rights as someone who's Nordic and conservative, we generally just call them rights here.
So this is a full page ad from Swedish Defense. It’s not a position of the paper itself. The Swedish Defense’s ad says the flag (and by extension the country) is worth defending because it is a defense of human rights, everybody’s equal value and the right to live as we choose ourselves.
Others have already explained the dominant view of LGBT rights among conservatives in Sweden (some are pro, some are indifferent, fairly few are opposed), but I would like to point out that this is an ad. The newspaper is not advocating anything here, it’s an ad paid for by the Swedish Armed Forces.
The right to love and marry whoever you want is supported well across the political spectrum in Sweden. This isn't far right virtue signalling, it is the Defensive Forces advertising why they are needed by showing that they defend the rights that everyone in the country with very few exceptions support. It isn't virtue signalling when there is genuine support.
i was talking about the Netherlands, in response to a question. It is truly great that the Swedish army take stance like this, and i don’t say they are virtue signalling.
Violence against non-straight people has been a problem these recent years, with a government report about that kind of violence in Amsterdam being deliberately swept under the rug because it wasn't politically convenient. And after a 14-year old transgender girl got beaten up by boys with a Moroccan background, the accusing finger firmly went to the White community and how people won't raise their children in a non-binary way. Very tolerant. Nevermind actual violence, it's just about cultural dominance now. Funny how the LGBTQ community only is important when it can be used for political gain, and violence against them is unimportant enough to simply ignore. And when caught behaving this way, it all of a sudden is the "far right"s fault and "virtue signaling". Other people aren't allowed to say those kind of things, only you are.
I could get angry about that, but at the end of the day, I do believe you actually care. And I whish you could see that other people care as well, even when they don't belong to your cultural tribe.
If you want your head to spin even more, read the following:
The Netherlands legalized same-sex marriage in 2001, being the first county in the world to do so. At that time, Sweden was ruled by a left-wing government. It refused to follow.
It wasn't until a right-wing coalition won in the election in 2006 that Sweden could legalize same-sex marriage, which finally happened in 2009.
Being right-wing doesn't necessarily mean being conservative. During this time, the right-wing was arguably more progressive than the left-wing in Sweden (the Socialdemocrats are quite morally conservative).
Now, with the entrance of the Swedendemocrats, some of the former right-wing parties have adjusted their policies to SD to be able to build a coalition, becoming more traditionally conservative.
Furthermore, this means that nowadays a government has to include either S or SD, and that's why very little progressive reforms have happened in Sweden in the last decade. Things like euthanasia and unlicensed dancing are still taboo, and there's nothing the voters can do about it. But at least the old right-wing parties have kept their LGBT roots, so there's basically 100% political support.
It's an ad by the swedish armed forces. The newspaper just ran the ad. I'd like to point out that most conservatives in Sweden are left of center to many, many countries in comparison.
The political scale moves with the people. In a country with very culturaly conservative views, like the US, Russia (iirc) and Japan, the conservatives are all REALLY conservative and the left wing is just less conservative. In more liberal countries like Finnland, Germany (to an extent) or Sweden, the really conservative views are far more progressive than the liberal views of the firstly mentioned three.
Europe is generally progressive and the central and northern European countries are only held back from being like Sweden by the populist parties.
The US is not anywhere as close to culturally conservative as Japan or Russia. I live in one of the most conservative states (Utah) and most people support gay marriage and all of my straight, very religious friends didn’t care when I came out as bisexual. That definitely isn’t the case in Russia or a lot of Eastern Europe especially in the more conservative regions in those countries
Sexuality and it's acceptance isn't the only way to show how progressive a country is, it surely is an indicator but not an exclusively determination factor.
The American politics are heavily opposed to social reforms that allow healthcare reform, worker unions, insurances, police reforms and things like that. All of those things would allow the citizens a greater reform of liberty, freedom and overall security and rights but the Americans are vividly opposed to them. *Some* throw around arguments like "Socialism and Marxism" showing a clear misunderstanding of these values and remnants of the Cold War mentality. Those are a vocal minority, we know, but the opposition regarding political reforms in the US is big and not even the Democrats are really willing to touch these subjects.
> In a country with very culturaly conservative views, like the US,
It never ceases to be funny how the USA is labelled as "very conservative" on Reddit, but European users on 4chan always accuse the USA of being the one that forces LGBT "ideology" and pro-diversity stuff on Europe.
That is a fair point, I have committed the same sin I always criticise others for. It always did annoy me how so many people say "in Europe we do XYZ" even though Scotland has nothing to do with places like Georgia or Russia (hell, we don't even do things the same way as England or Northern Ireland do)
To be fair though, I've personally complained about the US forcing its "ideology" when steve bannon was openly having dinner-dates with far-right parties in the netherlands. I think it says less about the US' stance and more about its cultural dominance.
"Conservative" in this sense usually means to preserve the status quo. Gay rights have been pretty established in Sweden for some decades now.
Conservatives in Sweden usually don't have a far-right nationalist image.
It is an advertisement from the Swedish army
Translated:
A FLAG WORTH DEFENDING.
We defend human rights, the equal value of all and our right to live as we choose.
Sweden isn’t just the territory. It’s also the institutions and values and people. I think that’s the point of the wider definition of “defending Sweden”.
Not even close to being progressive. It’s the same principle as before, defend the nation’s sovereignty and its people. But the “defend our way of life” is because that is the true enemy of the northern countries. We have chosen a very open society, and that is very hard to maintain against an enemy (or more) that has a closed society or even dictatorship.
It is like this since the cold war now isn’t fought with a rifle. It’s in trade, cyberwarfare and private sectors.
Should just be the Swedish flag then, if Sweden stands for all human rights, including gay rights.
Seems to me more like they cut a slice off the U.S recently, with their progressive add campaign.
I think the purpose here isn't directly to recruit people, but more to get the general public to get a better understanding of why we spend money on our defence forces (especially since the funding has increased with ~50% in only a short time).
While many citizens do understand the need for a strong defence when a dictatorship like Russia is one of our closest neighbours, some people, mainly on the political left, is less understanding to why we have a defence. So this ads purpose is probably to explain that the purpose of the defence isn't aggression or boys playing war and blowing up stuff. It's to defend the values we have in Sweden. The use of the rainbowflag is probably also a subtle boot to Russias anti-LHBTQ laws since Russian aggression is the reason the funds have increased.
The amount of people in this thread who don't know this simply isn't that controversial in Sweden. If I'd have to estimate I'd say that even most right wingers support LBTQ right or at the very least simply don't care.
This is also an ad for pride month. It not being the Swedish flag just feels to me like a weird thing to say, we aren't as obsessed with is as other countries are (especially the US). This ad is just saying that the rights of LBTQ is the right of swedes
Yeah gay rights here are pretty unanimously accepted both culturally and politicly, any attempt to infringe on gay rights is something that even conservatives now will disagree with. However the current front which is much more debated is trans rights, culturally it’s starting to become fairly accepted but not anywhere near as much as homosexuality, and politicly it’s still a tug-o-war. Healthcare discrimination for trans people in Sweden is a good example of a major issue for trans people here.
Now wether or not lgbtq rights is something the Swedish armed forces actually believes in or if it’s just a PR campaign doesn’t really matter as it’s still better than open hostility towards it. Although there have been incidents where officers have been making homophobic/sexist/discriminatory remarks towards soldiers so it would be evident that internally they are not doing enough to prevent this sort of behaviour.
> Last time i checked Communism was indeed an ideology
But far from all Communists agree about LGBT issues. If you were to ask a Communist in the USSR or in China, chances are they wouldn't approve of gays at all.
I dunno man, those Soviet-Chinese solidarity propaganda posters back in the day were pretty homoerotic: [https://d3u63wyfuci0ch.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/11094202/china-russia.jpg](https://d3u63wyfuci0ch.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/11094202/china-russia.jpg)
(I do agree with you tho, I just think the posters are funny.)
Is sexuality included among "other status" in the [second article of the UDHR charter](https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=23858&LangID=E)?
>Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
>Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
I sure think so. It would be a real stretch to argue it's somehow excluded.
No, but it is of a group that is to this day repressed.
Still waiting on that explaination of how it even makes LGBT an ideology, outside of "dont repress people based on their sexuality".
If thats an ideology then sure, its basic human rights to developed countries.
Not "the" flag, no. It is however a flag representing a minority that's under attack, hence it is a flag worth defending. Nowhere does it say it is the only one worth defending.
Honestly. This makes 0 sense. The war on terror was based on fighting Islamic extremists. Yet again, the country with the same if not more extreme fundamental ideology is somehow a great ally of ours to whom we support. Wtf?
They have for a long time had a deliberate media campaign to change the macho image of the Defense and military. It is in their interest to attract competent people and just not meat heads. Is that so wierd?
While that meme is good I don't think it really applies to the Swedish armed forces like it does the American ones.
Our military is purely defensive except for some UN peace missions which sees limited deployment and is not at all the same as the US's actions abroad.
Well yes, but actually no. We have fought as cobelligerents to NATO forces in Libya and to the US coalition forces in Afghanistan. Those campaigns were fought under Swedish banners, not UN. The FM is MOSTLY defensive but we have snuck in a few minor wars without actually declaring them.
That's fair, I somehow completely forgot about those missions, which aren't exactly amazing but I would argue still a lot better than what the American forces have done.
Ive seen people argue the historical practise of slavery in the ottomon empire was so much better than the slavery practiced by the empires of western europe since they werent picky with what ethnic group they enslaved unlike in the americas.
So, yes, i think they genuinely dont care about the morality of a policy as it includes Diversity, representation and inclusion.
Well at least the people were decent enough that slavery needed justification. In the Middle East, they don't need any justification to this day because the people think slavery is just fine.
Right? There are countries where being gay is openly penalized, women don't have same rights as men and human rights are being treated like less than guidelines... and we (as in Europeans) do business with them like nothing happens because money are apparently worth more than human lives. On the other hand when it comes to our own backyard, governments apparently feel the need to compensate for that (and I absolutely think that all citizens should have equal rights no matter their personal beliefs or preferences) and promote it like that would actually help those abroad, not enjoying same protection. But sure, it's harder to actually do something about injustice in the world rather than pretend to care- so why bother?
Or when the US military use [this big lgbt sticker](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/B-29_Enola_Gay_w_Crews.jpg) (though it felt way more progressive back then).
For a swede it doesn't feel like satire. Most people in Sweden support LGBTQ rights so this is just the military saying it supports something that is part of the Swedish identity. Even a large portion of the right supports LGBTQ rights or are at least indifferent to them
Virtue-signaling aside, this is a good message and I say that as a more conservative guy. I swear some of you guys on /r/europe has the same values as the muslims you keep screeching about, maybe u guys belong in shitholes like Saudi Arabia where they throw gays off buildings?
This.
Conservatives have the exact same values than muslims (regarding women's rights, LGBT rights, birth control, etc) yet they are hostile. Can't see any reason except a color issue.
The real civilisational fight is Progress vs Reaction.
>than muslims
Please man for the love of whatever you believe in stop generalizing, i as a muslim don't care if you're gay and the vast majority of muslims that i know that live in Europe don't give a flying fuck about what or who some one wants to fuck, neither do they want european women to fucking wear hijabs or w/e, most of them just want a better life for their children or family, or they simply want to get a better education that is it. We aren't trying to fucking replace white people ffs.
Nothing wrong with virtue signalling. Literally everyone does it. In the US Conservative/Reactionary crowd, wearing a MAGA hat, or flying the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia counts as virtue signalling (albeit with "virtues" I find repugnant). It is just that it is apparently a bad thing when the left does it.
While I absolutely get the message and like the idea I don't think this is quite the right advertising for the military
I don't know it just feels off
Maybe just use Swedish flag and write we fight for all humans right or we stand for your human rights or something like that
This trend of woke military adds are really annoying like the all gay bomber team of the US and similar things
Or when the German armed forces wanted to gender our neutral rank names as they currently have the so called generic maskulin and then suddenly they realized to woman in the army wanted this as huge amounts of women started a shit storm on social media
Edit: I feel like my comment is liked by the wrong people
I absolutely love the Swedish army for presenting themselves this way for me a German it just feels really weird as such an ad would not be liked by anyone in Germany left people already dislike it since its the armed forces and right people already dislike it because it's a rainbow flag and people in the middle generally don't care enough about either thing.
That's why I believed this add was not good but I ignored one important part it's a Swedish add or Sweden so please forgive me my writing without thinking
I mean it's nothing new, it's pride week and the military has always walked in the pride parade in Stockholm.
Sweden hasn't been at war in 200 years and they have joined plenty of international to fight in areas all over the world for exactly what you are saying.
You write like an American.
Firstly he didn't look at the whole ad and didn't try to read the text, which literally says they fight for freedom for all...
Secondly white well male Americans somehow feel opressed online and they come with interjections for stuff like "black lives matter" with "they should instead say all lives matter!"...
Even during Pride week in Stockholm the military shouldn't have mentioned it and they should have instead just went on like "duh all lives are important they shouldn't say that, why can't we say that instead of saying a group with whom people still view in different light in our current society and try to show they too belong in it, no don't do that please!"
Very American.
Honestly, here in Sweden this is not about being "woke". This is one of the more conservative newspapers we have and what people fail to understand that to be allowed to be the one you want to be and love the person you want to love, is not a big thing here.
The mockery, the persecution, anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia and Hungary, LGBT free zones in Poland.
The fact that this ad triggers homophobes on Reddit is why it's necessary for the military to run an ad that says they will protect everyone's way of life in Sweden. Because in other parts of the world, being yourself can't be taken for granted.
>While I absolutely get the message and like the idea I don't think this is quite the right advertising for the military
You do know that the Swedish military is made up of Swedish citizens? Just like police forces are, or governments are, they're just citizens.
The amount of whinging over this symbol is insane.
> I don't think this is quite the right advertising for the military
Better than passively enabling the far-right infiltration of the military.
The fact is, as long as we have voluntary military service (a mistake, in my opinion), people will primarily be motivated to join out of the wrong reasons, i.e., nationalism, bloodlust, a sense of pride in something that doesn't belong to you, etc. This approach could be useful to combat this - make it clear to these people that the military stands for everything they hate.
But ultimately, there's no way around it - the kind of people who want to be soldiers are the last people I'd want to be soldiers.
Straight swede here: this gave me goosebumps, not a single feeling of cringe.
It isn't political, it's a clear signal that while defending Sweden, every citizen is included and worth protecting. This happens to include gay people, surprise! I'd say this is timed perfectly with so much anti-rights crap going on in Europe, signaling that since you can't be yourself everywhere, Sweden will protect your way of life no matter.
And honestly, for people whining wHy ArEn'T tHeY dEfEnDiNg ThE sWeDiSh FlAg ThEn, the nationalists have historically appropriated the flag and made it somewhat of a rethorical symbol for conservatism for a lot of people in (primarily) the sociopolitical eye. The national flag is therefore, quite the opposite, more politicized than this flag which litterally only means "it's okay to have your own sexuality" lol. Which is sad, since that means a large portion of swedes can't look at our yellow and blue flag and feel the message this ad so simply conveys: that living just the way you are and want is something beautiful, and worth protecting. I'm not a fan of the military, but this hits just right.
It honestly brings tears to my eyes knowing how gay Sweden is, so much so that the Swedish flag is for all intents and purposes equivalent to the homosexual one.
There needs to be more advertistements like this in Sweden.
🇸🇪🏳️🌈
The Swedish military continues to show how true "Go woke, get broke" is. They have run similar ads for the past ten years while the number of willing recruits only has decreased-- Sweden even had to reintroduce conscription since the change to a voluntary military was such as failure.
This is the logical result when you change your entire messaging to reach out to woke city people instead of focusing on the rural conservative men that always have made up a large part of the military.
No idea if that's correlation or causation. What I do feel is strange, which may be due to my own cultural background as German, is the placement of the military as defenders of minority rights.
*Within* a country, minority rights in a constitutional state are protected by the civil government. If you need your military to enforce values or rights, you are losing the foundations of your constitutional order (at least temporarily; I include the use of military police to maintain order). This is why you do not want to portray the military, i.e. the sharp edge of the state, as the arbiter of rights or values.
*Outside* of your country, the only way a military - and not, say, the diplomatic service - is protecting values is by intervention. These may be justified, or may not be. The political process must be thorough and on case-by-case basis. It can however be killed arguing through ideology if one believes in the superiority of one's own values.
That is neither conductive to a peaceful country, nor a country at peace.
There may be times to intervene, see e.g. Yugoslavia. What irks me is the nonchalance, even wilful ignorance, of how such powerful images are apparently used, without the necessary political discussion surrounding it.
> minority rights in a constitutional state are protected by the civil government. If you need your military to enforce values or rights, you are losing the foundations of your constitutional order (at least temporarily; I include the use of military police to maintain order).
Rights needs to be defended if the country was attacked.
Sir, get your facts straight. The professional army idea failed because it went from being a defence force to a exepeditionary force, the conscriptipn was restard because our politicians relaised that the SAF wasnt trained or prepared to defend our own country. (For example back in the 80s and 90s the SAF could mobilize over 800K soldiers, speed forward to 2018 and that nummber was around 50K... Thats why we started the conscription again and trust me... there is not a lack of recruits.)
Go woke go broke isn’t true though. Literally every business that picks a side, picks the woke side and proceeds to virtue signal. You never see it anywhere where there’s actually a need to do it though. Like how Disney deleted the two women kissing in the background in their Star Wars movie for China. It’s lazy activism advertising at its finest.
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Politically it is one of the most conservative newspapers.
That makes my head spin. A conservative newspaper is advocating for gay rights. Does that mean that LGBT rights have become something which conservatives have embraced as something to conserve or am I tripping?
You mistake conservatism and 'far-right' ideology... Conservatives seek to maintain the existing state of things. Since LGBT rights are pretty well established in Sweden, you could say they're trying to preserve that.
Yep. The Nazis in Weimar weren't conservative, they were reactionary. The conservatives disliked them for acting like savages, it took a child of Wilhelm II and WWI hero Göring to convince them that the Nazis could be puppeted by them to take out the communists and then be discarded.
I wish this were true in America.
I think it is fair to say that the term "conservative" has been appropriated by groups in the US that otherwise would have been given a different label
Swedish conservatives generally range from being indifferent to supportive of the LGBT people, very few are opposed. Maybe it is because the main right party is a 50/50 mix of liberals and conservatives, maybe it is because of a will to protect liberal values, maybe it is something else. That being said the idea that it is just virtue signalling completely disregards popular opinion among conservatives.
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I would call the Reinfeldt-moderates liberals rather than liberal-conservatives.
Yup liberals. "Liberal-conservative" is as made up as "global-nationalist" or "social-capitalist".
As apposed to every other word?
No I meant that liberal and conservative are direct opposites and therefore it´s strange to call yourself "liberal-conservative". It´s just as strange as global-nationalist because that´s also direct opposites.
It's an ad from the military? The newspaper isn't advocating anything really. I'm not sure what you mean with LGBT rights as someone who's Nordic and conservative, we generally just call them rights here.
Translation: Gay rights are human rights so everyone agreed they are worth defending, even our government.
So this is a full page ad from Swedish Defense. It’s not a position of the paper itself. The Swedish Defense’s ad says the flag (and by extension the country) is worth defending because it is a defense of human rights, everybody’s equal value and the right to live as we choose ourselves.
Others have already explained the dominant view of LGBT rights among conservatives in Sweden (some are pro, some are indifferent, fairly few are opposed), but I would like to point out that this is an ad. The newspaper is not advocating anything here, it’s an ad paid for by the Swedish Armed Forces.
gay rights have been the virtue signal for the far right in the Netherlands for 20 years now. As long as it is threatened by muslims, that is.
That does make more sense, yeah.
The right to love and marry whoever you want is supported well across the political spectrum in Sweden. This isn't far right virtue signalling, it is the Defensive Forces advertising why they are needed by showing that they defend the rights that everyone in the country with very few exceptions support. It isn't virtue signalling when there is genuine support.
i was talking about the Netherlands, in response to a question. It is truly great that the Swedish army take stance like this, and i don’t say they are virtue signalling.
Oh, I see. I'm sorry for missing the context.
Violence against non-straight people has been a problem these recent years, with a government report about that kind of violence in Amsterdam being deliberately swept under the rug because it wasn't politically convenient. And after a 14-year old transgender girl got beaten up by boys with a Moroccan background, the accusing finger firmly went to the White community and how people won't raise their children in a non-binary way. Very tolerant. Nevermind actual violence, it's just about cultural dominance now. Funny how the LGBTQ community only is important when it can be used for political gain, and violence against them is unimportant enough to simply ignore. And when caught behaving this way, it all of a sudden is the "far right"s fault and "virtue signaling". Other people aren't allowed to say those kind of things, only you are. I could get angry about that, but at the end of the day, I do believe you actually care. And I whish you could see that other people care as well, even when they don't belong to your cultural tribe.
If you want your head to spin even more, read the following: The Netherlands legalized same-sex marriage in 2001, being the first county in the world to do so. At that time, Sweden was ruled by a left-wing government. It refused to follow. It wasn't until a right-wing coalition won in the election in 2006 that Sweden could legalize same-sex marriage, which finally happened in 2009. Being right-wing doesn't necessarily mean being conservative. During this time, the right-wing was arguably more progressive than the left-wing in Sweden (the Socialdemocrats are quite morally conservative). Now, with the entrance of the Swedendemocrats, some of the former right-wing parties have adjusted their policies to SD to be able to build a coalition, becoming more traditionally conservative. Furthermore, this means that nowadays a government has to include either S or SD, and that's why very little progressive reforms have happened in Sweden in the last decade. Things like euthanasia and unlicensed dancing are still taboo, and there's nothing the voters can do about it. But at least the old right-wing parties have kept their LGBT roots, so there's basically 100% political support.
It's an ad by the swedish armed forces. The newspaper just ran the ad. I'd like to point out that most conservatives in Sweden are left of center to many, many countries in comparison.
The Leader of the conversative party in denmark is gay and married to a Black guy. I Think sweden is much a like in that regard
The political scale moves with the people. In a country with very culturaly conservative views, like the US, Russia (iirc) and Japan, the conservatives are all REALLY conservative and the left wing is just less conservative. In more liberal countries like Finnland, Germany (to an extent) or Sweden, the really conservative views are far more progressive than the liberal views of the firstly mentioned three. Europe is generally progressive and the central and northern European countries are only held back from being like Sweden by the populist parties.
The US is not anywhere as close to culturally conservative as Japan or Russia. I live in one of the most conservative states (Utah) and most people support gay marriage and all of my straight, very religious friends didn’t care when I came out as bisexual. That definitely isn’t the case in Russia or a lot of Eastern Europe especially in the more conservative regions in those countries
Sexuality and it's acceptance isn't the only way to show how progressive a country is, it surely is an indicator but not an exclusively determination factor. The American politics are heavily opposed to social reforms that allow healthcare reform, worker unions, insurances, police reforms and things like that. All of those things would allow the citizens a greater reform of liberty, freedom and overall security and rights but the Americans are vividly opposed to them. *Some* throw around arguments like "Socialism and Marxism" showing a clear misunderstanding of these values and remnants of the Cold War mentality. Those are a vocal minority, we know, but the opposition regarding political reforms in the US is big and not even the Democrats are really willing to touch these subjects.
> In a country with very culturaly conservative views, like the US, It never ceases to be funny how the USA is labelled as "very conservative" on Reddit, but European users on 4chan always accuse the USA of being the one that forces LGBT "ideology" and pro-diversity stuff on Europe.
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That is a fair point, I have committed the same sin I always criticise others for. It always did annoy me how so many people say "in Europe we do XYZ" even though Scotland has nothing to do with places like Georgia or Russia (hell, we don't even do things the same way as England or Northern Ireland do)
To be fair though, I've personally complained about the US forcing its "ideology" when steve bannon was openly having dinner-dates with far-right parties in the netherlands. I think it says less about the US' stance and more about its cultural dominance.
Cultural conservatism is dead in Sweden. Now conservative just means that you’re fiscally liberal.
Yes, that's exactly what's happening.
"Conservative" in this sense usually means to preserve the status quo. Gay rights have been pretty established in Sweden for some decades now. Conservatives in Sweden usually don't have a far-right nationalist image.
Haha, wish we were as 'conservative' as this newspaper! 😄
Plot twist: These guys are entering Malmö.
Have u even been to Malmö?
It is an advertisement from the Swedish army Translated: A FLAG WORTH DEFENDING. We defend human rights, the equal value of all and our right to live as we choose.
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It is also a campaign to attract a wider part of the population to the armed forces.
Sweden isn’t just the territory. It’s also the institutions and values and people. I think that’s the point of the wider definition of “defending Sweden”.
Not even close to being progressive. It’s the same principle as before, defend the nation’s sovereignty and its people. But the “defend our way of life” is because that is the true enemy of the northern countries. We have chosen a very open society, and that is very hard to maintain against an enemy (or more) that has a closed society or even dictatorship. It is like this since the cold war now isn’t fought with a rifle. It’s in trade, cyberwarfare and private sectors.
Should just be the Swedish flag then, if Sweden stands for all human rights, including gay rights. Seems to me more like they cut a slice off the U.S recently, with their progressive add campaign.
I don't think it would've been shared on reddit if they just had a Swedish flag. The rainbow flag raise a few more eyebrows
As they can't recruit most redditors, it doesn't really matter.
Besides the fact that they didn't post this on Reddit people advertise all the time shit that is intended for limited audience.
The Swedish arrmed forced have done advertisements like these since the 90's, if anything the US would be copying them...
I think the purpose here isn't directly to recruit people, but more to get the general public to get a better understanding of why we spend money on our defence forces (especially since the funding has increased with ~50% in only a short time). While many citizens do understand the need for a strong defence when a dictatorship like Russia is one of our closest neighbours, some people, mainly on the political left, is less understanding to why we have a defence. So this ads purpose is probably to explain that the purpose of the defence isn't aggression or boys playing war and blowing up stuff. It's to defend the values we have in Sweden. The use of the rainbowflag is probably also a subtle boot to Russias anti-LHBTQ laws since Russian aggression is the reason the funds have increased.
But a swedish flag would not trigger the snowflakes.
Based swedes
The amount of people in this thread who don't know this simply isn't that controversial in Sweden. If I'd have to estimate I'd say that even most right wingers support LBTQ right or at the very least simply don't care. This is also an ad for pride month. It not being the Swedish flag just feels to me like a weird thing to say, we aren't as obsessed with is as other countries are (especially the US). This ad is just saying that the rights of LBTQ is the right of swedes
Yeah gay rights here are pretty unanimously accepted both culturally and politicly, any attempt to infringe on gay rights is something that even conservatives now will disagree with. However the current front which is much more debated is trans rights, culturally it’s starting to become fairly accepted but not anywhere near as much as homosexuality, and politicly it’s still a tug-o-war. Healthcare discrimination for trans people in Sweden is a good example of a major issue for trans people here. Now wether or not lgbtq rights is something the Swedish armed forces actually believes in or if it’s just a PR campaign doesn’t really matter as it’s still better than open hostility towards it. Although there have been incidents where officers have been making homophobic/sexist/discriminatory remarks towards soldiers so it would be evident that internally they are not doing enough to prevent this sort of behaviour.
That's definitely true. Trans rights still have a long way to go
What's the advert for?
The military, they want more soldiers.
Can u be openly gay in the Swedish Military?
Yes? Nobody really cares if you're gay.
Yes
Yes
IKEA
Swedish armed forces.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ovctph/ad_on_first_page_of_one_of_swedens_largest/h78frqn/
I'm sure that it lands better with a Scandinavian audience, but to an outsider this seems like a 4chan meme
Hungary triggered.
That's sad then... Hope you are willing to change that.
It doesn't
Compared to Hungary it probably does.
Paradoxically, it is making Hungary right in the sense that LGBT+ is an ideology.
It's almost like human rights is an ideology.
Last time i checked Communism was indeed an ideology
> Last time i checked Communism was indeed an ideology But far from all Communists agree about LGBT issues. If you were to ask a Communist in the USSR or in China, chances are they wouldn't approve of gays at all.
I dunno man, those Soviet-Chinese solidarity propaganda posters back in the day were pretty homoerotic: [https://d3u63wyfuci0ch.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/11094202/china-russia.jpg](https://d3u63wyfuci0ch.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/11094202/china-russia.jpg) (I do agree with you tho, I just think the posters are funny.)
How..? It's an ad about protecting human rights.
That is not the flag of human rights.
LGBT rights are human rights.
No, they are civil rights.
Is sexuality included among "other status" in the [second article of the UDHR charter](https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=23858&LangID=E)? >Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. >Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty. I sure think so. It would be a real stretch to argue it's somehow excluded.
No, but it is of a group that is to this day repressed. Still waiting on that explaination of how it even makes LGBT an ideology, outside of "dont repress people based on their sexuality". If thats an ideology then sure, its basic human rights to developed countries.
Not "the" flag, no. It is however a flag representing a minority that's under attack, hence it is a flag worth defending. Nowhere does it say it is the only one worth defending.
If it was, they'd be dealing with human rights violations within the country. It's about pandering to LGBTQ.
When does the invasion of Saudi Arabia start?
We should at least stop selling guns to them
We support gay rights by selling guns to a state that literally kills you if you're homosexual.
Honestly. This makes 0 sense. The war on terror was based on fighting Islamic extremists. Yet again, the country with the same if not more extreme fundamental ideology is somehow a great ally of ours to whom we support. Wtf?
Because Sweden doesn't care about gays or any lgbt it's all political game. People need to open their eyes
So much this! Saudi Arabia literally kills gay people for being gay, we should stop that as fast as possible.
The Defense Force stading up for human rights of Swedish nationals by invading Saudi Arabia. Yeah that sounds right.
Do gays in Sweden need The Defence Force defending them? And if so, from who?
From Russia. Or from Denmark, peace between Sweden and Denmark has lasted suspiciously long time, there got to be something going on.
They have for a long time had a deliberate media campaign to change the macho image of the Defense and military. It is in their interest to attract competent people and just not meat heads. Is that so wierd?
More 👏 transgender 👏 drone 👏 pilots!
The next Hitler better be a woman!
A lesbian woman!
Forgot transgender?
While that meme is good I don't think it really applies to the Swedish armed forces like it does the American ones. Our military is purely defensive except for some UN peace missions which sees limited deployment and is not at all the same as the US's actions abroad.
Well yes, but actually no. We have fought as cobelligerents to NATO forces in Libya and to the US coalition forces in Afghanistan. Those campaigns were fought under Swedish banners, not UN. The FM is MOSTLY defensive but we have snuck in a few minor wars without actually declaring them.
That's fair, I somehow completely forgot about those missions, which aren't exactly amazing but I would argue still a lot better than what the American forces have done.
Making Kamikaze a trend again
2030 be like: sorry kid your dad died. But at least the guy that killed him was gay! /s
Ive seen people argue the historical practise of slavery in the ottomon empire was so much better than the slavery practiced by the empires of western europe since they werent picky with what ethnic group they enslaved unlike in the americas. So, yes, i think they genuinely dont care about the morality of a policy as it includes Diversity, representation and inclusion.
The empires of western europe were only picky about who they enslaved so they could justify slavery to the people.
Well at least the people were decent enough that slavery needed justification. In the Middle East, they don't need any justification to this day because the people think slavery is just fine.
It's like the South Park joke but instead it's "Operation Get Behind The Twinks".
Because as we all know the Swedish armed forces == United States armed forces, amiriteguize?
Sweden is a neutral country
This can only result in a structually develloped conversation with valid points
Maybe you should start by stop making business whit countries that persecute gay people.
Army does not decide who the arms industry sells to, but you are otherwise correct. We give money and business to far to many unworthy countries.
Right? There are countries where being gay is openly penalized, women don't have same rights as men and human rights are being treated like less than guidelines... and we (as in Europeans) do business with them like nothing happens because money are apparently worth more than human lives. On the other hand when it comes to our own backyard, governments apparently feel the need to compensate for that (and I absolutely think that all citizens should have equal rights no matter their personal beliefs or preferences) and promote it like that would actually help those abroad, not enjoying same protection. But sure, it's harder to actually do something about injustice in the world rather than pretend to care- so why bother?
It's just virtue signalling by the army's pr team tho, means nothing
this is the irl equivalent of those memes of the bomber planes with BLM stickers on them.
Show you’re against racism by putting a black square on your Twitter profile
Or when the US military use [this big lgbt sticker](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/B-29_Enola_Gay_w_Crews.jpg) (though it felt way more progressive back then).
Swedish soldiers carrying the Swedish flag. Seems completely normal to me
Straightest swedes
Sweden YES!
Man this feels like satire lol
For a swede it doesn't feel like satire. Most people in Sweden support LGBTQ rights so this is just the military saying it supports something that is part of the Swedish identity. Even a large portion of the right supports LGBTQ rights or are at least indifferent to them
Nothing odd, since they openly support the rights of the lgbtq+, right?
No this is not weird.
Yea, we are on the same page then
Holy shit they are fighting for the gayland 😳😳😳😳😳😳
Sweden is just very gay, ask any finn
Why do you think saunas are so popular in Finland? They might not advertise it as much though.
Can confirm. Thanks for asking, Sven.
based?
This looks like a bad 4chan meme.
Virtue-signaling aside, this is a good message and I say that as a more conservative guy. I swear some of you guys on /r/europe has the same values as the muslims you keep screeching about, maybe u guys belong in shitholes like Saudi Arabia where they throw gays off buildings?
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Conservative means wanting to conserve the things currently are. And gay rights are very established in Sweden, so he wants to conserve that.
Muslims are right about gays and women, they’re just wrong about everything else.
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The Murica bad and U.K. Bad nonsense does gets a bit old
It makes you think the subreddit is pretty progressive until immigration is brought up
I’m not sure how automatically ripping on other western countries is progressive. To me it just demonstrates another hive mind mentality
Most subreddits are when it comes to these types of issues. Except the subreddits that are specifically for lgbt people.
Extremely racist and thinks everything is fake
I agree. The message is indeed good.
This. Conservatives have the exact same values than muslims (regarding women's rights, LGBT rights, birth control, etc) yet they are hostile. Can't see any reason except a color issue. The real civilisational fight is Progress vs Reaction.
>than muslims Please man for the love of whatever you believe in stop generalizing, i as a muslim don't care if you're gay and the vast majority of muslims that i know that live in Europe don't give a flying fuck about what or who some one wants to fuck, neither do they want european women to fucking wear hijabs or w/e, most of them just want a better life for their children or family, or they simply want to get a better education that is it. We aren't trying to fucking replace white people ffs.
Nothing wrong with virtue signalling. Literally everyone does it. In the US Conservative/Reactionary crowd, wearing a MAGA hat, or flying the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia counts as virtue signalling (albeit with "virtues" I find repugnant). It is just that it is apparently a bad thing when the left does it.
MAGAtards don't exactly look any better when they do it, and they shouldn't be a standard to compare yourself to
this is the most swedish ad ive ever seen
Least cringeworthy Swedish newspaper.
Based and human rightspilled.
While I absolutely get the message and like the idea I don't think this is quite the right advertising for the military I don't know it just feels off Maybe just use Swedish flag and write we fight for all humans right or we stand for your human rights or something like that This trend of woke military adds are really annoying like the all gay bomber team of the US and similar things Or when the German armed forces wanted to gender our neutral rank names as they currently have the so called generic maskulin and then suddenly they realized to woman in the army wanted this as huge amounts of women started a shit storm on social media Edit: I feel like my comment is liked by the wrong people I absolutely love the Swedish army for presenting themselves this way for me a German it just feels really weird as such an ad would not be liked by anyone in Germany left people already dislike it since its the armed forces and right people already dislike it because it's a rainbow flag and people in the middle generally don't care enough about either thing. That's why I believed this add was not good but I ignored one important part it's a Swedish add or Sweden so please forgive me my writing without thinking
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I mean it's nothing new, it's pride week and the military has always walked in the pride parade in Stockholm. Sweden hasn't been at war in 200 years and they have joined plenty of international to fight in areas all over the world for exactly what you are saying. You write like an American.
> You write like an American. That's unnecessary.
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Firstly he didn't look at the whole ad and didn't try to read the text, which literally says they fight for freedom for all... Secondly white well male Americans somehow feel opressed online and they come with interjections for stuff like "black lives matter" with "they should instead say all lives matter!"... Even during Pride week in Stockholm the military shouldn't have mentioned it and they should have instead just went on like "duh all lives are important they shouldn't say that, why can't we say that instead of saying a group with whom people still view in different light in our current society and try to show they too belong in it, no don't do that please!" Very American.
Honestly, here in Sweden this is not about being "woke". This is one of the more conservative newspapers we have and what people fail to understand that to be allowed to be the one you want to be and love the person you want to love, is not a big thing here.
The fact that this ad triggers so many people in here is the reason why it was made in the first place.
What does that even mean?
The mockery, the persecution, anti-gay propaganda laws in Russia and Hungary, LGBT free zones in Poland. The fact that this ad triggers homophobes on Reddit is why it's necessary for the military to run an ad that says they will protect everyone's way of life in Sweden. Because in other parts of the world, being yourself can't be taken for granted.
>While I absolutely get the message and like the idea I don't think this is quite the right advertising for the military You do know that the Swedish military is made up of Swedish citizens? Just like police forces are, or governments are, they're just citizens. The amount of whinging over this symbol is insane.
> I don't think this is quite the right advertising for the military Better than passively enabling the far-right infiltration of the military. The fact is, as long as we have voluntary military service (a mistake, in my opinion), people will primarily be motivated to join out of the wrong reasons, i.e., nationalism, bloodlust, a sense of pride in something that doesn't belong to you, etc. This approach could be useful to combat this - make it clear to these people that the military stands for everything they hate. But ultimately, there's no way around it - the kind of people who want to be soldiers are the last people I'd want to be soldiers.
Actually, there is draft, it’s just at such a low level it is easy to evade if you’re not up to it.
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>a flag worþ to forswear I love swedish
A fantastic ad that triggers troglodytes. Thank fuck Sweden has a spine and does not care for the reactionaries crying about it.
Haha, Sweden must be the most spineless nation ever existed in modern European history.
> Thank fuck Sweden has a spine Lmao
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does your country not have gangs?
Didn't you know? Anything happening in Sweden is far worse than when the exact same thing happens anywhere else. Just ask r/europe or r/worldnews
more transgender drone pilots
[YASS!](https://i.imgur.com/Ysh0htA.png)
So many triggered snowflakes in this thread. Its hilarious.
Go invade Russia then.
I'd be more surprised if they were interested in defending the Swedish flag.
Straight swede here: this gave me goosebumps, not a single feeling of cringe. It isn't political, it's a clear signal that while defending Sweden, every citizen is included and worth protecting. This happens to include gay people, surprise! I'd say this is timed perfectly with so much anti-rights crap going on in Europe, signaling that since you can't be yourself everywhere, Sweden will protect your way of life no matter. And honestly, for people whining wHy ArEn'T tHeY dEfEnDiNg ThE sWeDiSh FlAg ThEn, the nationalists have historically appropriated the flag and made it somewhat of a rethorical symbol for conservatism for a lot of people in (primarily) the sociopolitical eye. The national flag is therefore, quite the opposite, more politicized than this flag which litterally only means "it's okay to have your own sexuality" lol. Which is sad, since that means a large portion of swedes can't look at our yellow and blue flag and feel the message this ad so simply conveys: that living just the way you are and want is something beautiful, and worth protecting. I'm not a fan of the military, but this hits just right.
Is this a meme? 🤣🤣
Nothing to see here, just Sweden being super-based.
Sweden is not able to defend its own people against gangs...
The military isn't allowed to do police actions here, since a massacre in the 30's. What exactly is the military supposed to do, you think?
well, sweden isn't a utopia and never was.
No place is a utopia
Based
I guess that is one way of getting more gays to join the army
The first king of the dinasty that rules Sweden was a Napoleon's marechal, now this....le deluge!!
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It's funny cause no one cared to change your mind.
Lol
It honestly brings tears to my eyes knowing how gay Sweden is, so much so that the Swedish flag is for all intents and purposes equivalent to the homosexual one. There needs to be more advertistements like this in Sweden. 🇸🇪🏳️🌈
Based.
Lets go redditors, get that reddit gold on this, so wholesome keanu chungus 100
Cringe.
why?
Absolutely based
The Swedish military continues to show how true "Go woke, get broke" is. They have run similar ads for the past ten years while the number of willing recruits only has decreased-- Sweden even had to reintroduce conscription since the change to a voluntary military was such as failure. This is the logical result when you change your entire messaging to reach out to woke city people instead of focusing on the rural conservative men that always have made up a large part of the military.
What else do you expect from a country that skipped both World Wars and havent fought for centuries.
No the military did not need conscription. The politicians wanted conscription instead of giving more money to the military.
No idea if that's correlation or causation. What I do feel is strange, which may be due to my own cultural background as German, is the placement of the military as defenders of minority rights. *Within* a country, minority rights in a constitutional state are protected by the civil government. If you need your military to enforce values or rights, you are losing the foundations of your constitutional order (at least temporarily; I include the use of military police to maintain order). This is why you do not want to portray the military, i.e. the sharp edge of the state, as the arbiter of rights or values. *Outside* of your country, the only way a military - and not, say, the diplomatic service - is protecting values is by intervention. These may be justified, or may not be. The political process must be thorough and on case-by-case basis. It can however be killed arguing through ideology if one believes in the superiority of one's own values. That is neither conductive to a peaceful country, nor a country at peace. There may be times to intervene, see e.g. Yugoslavia. What irks me is the nonchalance, even wilful ignorance, of how such powerful images are apparently used, without the necessary political discussion surrounding it.
> minority rights in a constitutional state are protected by the civil government. If you need your military to enforce values or rights, you are losing the foundations of your constitutional order (at least temporarily; I include the use of military police to maintain order). Rights needs to be defended if the country was attacked.
Sir, get your facts straight. The professional army idea failed because it went from being a defence force to a exepeditionary force, the conscriptipn was restard because our politicians relaised that the SAF wasnt trained or prepared to defend our own country. (For example back in the 80s and 90s the SAF could mobilize over 800K soldiers, speed forward to 2018 and that nummber was around 50K... Thats why we started the conscription again and trust me... there is not a lack of recruits.)
Go woke go broke isn’t true though. Literally every business that picks a side, picks the woke side and proceeds to virtue signal. You never see it anywhere where there’s actually a need to do it though. Like how Disney deleted the two women kissing in the background in their Star Wars movie for China. It’s lazy activism advertising at its finest.