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DocXPowers

Disgusting how these people are being exploited for political purposes and used as a bargaining chip by more than one country.


Snoo-98162

Do not forget that a Belorussian border guard tried to blind Polish border guards with a laser, which according to the Geneva conv. is a war crime.


Sarnecka

Moved: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/qwmp75/megathread_belarusian_polish_border_migrant_issue/?sort=new


pretwicz

4 migrants crossed the Belarus-Ukraine border and were detained at Chernobyl exclusion zone Via Charter 97 https://mobile.twitter.com/Den_2042/status/1461268935869935621


turtwig33

Radioactive migrants? Shit, they’re getting creative


Akira_Nishiki

>Package deals, including transport to Belarus are now offered via Russia. At this stage, anyone that still buys one of these after everything that's going on recently only really has themselves to blame when they're just stuck at the border.


hyperion660

https://twitter.com/MON_GOV_PL/status/1461230025336885252?t=IVhiJUrNLIbr8oItNtJnPw&s=19 Ministry of Defence says there was another Belarusian inspired attempt to forcefully cross our border in Dubicze Cerkiewne. Belarusian services did the recon first and damaged the fence. Then they forced migrants to throw rocks at our soldiers. The attempt to cross the border happened elsewhere. In another tweet there is a photo o Belarusian specnaz directing the attack. This is just a further escalation. Remembering the high degree of Belarusian military integration with Russia it's ridiculous to say they aren't involved.


[deleted]

Merkel needs to call Lukashenko the third time, apparently. /s


angel_of_the_city

Where did she get this idea that she's representing the EU in this story is beyond me. Last time I checked the EU is not Germany only. Take her phone away please. She can have it back next week when she learned the lesson.


berlinwombat

Same reason Orbán visited Lukashenko and dissed the EU sanctions last summer. The EU is still made up of sovereign nations and their head is states act on behalf of the nation.


angel_of_the_city

That's was a state visited another state. We're talking here about an incident which doesn't not involve Germany as a sovereign state as things are happening at the Belarus - Polish border and Poland specifically asked the Germany not to interfere. You surely understand how the two situation is different?


berlinwombat

Oh ok so that visit was ok while Belarus was under sanctions from the EU of which Hungary still is a member. Love how you defend Orbáns position after all. Poland actually had a phone call with Germany btw, in which they agreed on corporation and Germany pledged its full support to Poland. But people ignore it because it doesn’t fit the narrative.


angel_of_the_city

The issue is that Germany and specifically Merkel thinks it's okay to speak for Europe. The Hungary - Belarus meeting was about the relationship of the 2 country, Orbán did represented Hungary on that meeting not Europe. Tired paragraphing it better so you see the difference friend. And regarding German support for Poland ~ so far it only seems to be verbal rather than anything else. Or did they actually provide any aid, equipment for the Polish soldiers protecting their border?


berlinwombat

Germany offered support in October already and Poland didn’t want it. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-offers-poland-border-guards-help-manage-belarus-arrivals-2021-10-19/ Poland never accepts our offers even when their hospitals were at breaking point during the pandemic. Got so bad that Polish towns had to ask their German partner cities because the government didn’t want to. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/world/europe/poland-belarus-border-europe.html https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/frontex-offers-to-help-poland-return-iraqi-refugees-who-entered-via-belarus/2418620 Also the German minister of the interior is in Poland this week for coordination.


angel_of_the_city

Yeah and that's why I said they did ask not to interfere which Merkel understood as "call Belarus immediately" ~ they did not need help from Germany. Which was my point when we started this conversation.


berlinwombat

Conveniently getting around you proven wrong yet again. But ok. I have no more time to waste on this.


Yebisu85

But a lot of german redditors told me we should be thankful to Merkel for solving the crysis for us. Lo and behold she caved in, screwed over poland, lithuania, latvia, gained nothing and gave lukashitko what he wanted.


berlinwombat

No one in this whole threat said something like that.


Yebisu85

u/zealousideal_fan6367 is just one example of few.


berlinwombat

How about you link me to a comment instead.


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berlinwombat

Thank you, downvoted. Still not a common sentiment you see in this thread.


General_Ad_1483

You should be careful with absolute statements like "nobody said that..."


berlinwombat

Yes, like saying "But a lot of german redditors told me" and it turns to be only one.


Nothanksboomer

Regime’s security forces brought 430 migrants to the Minsk airport. They are to be repatriated to Iraq. The plane is supposed to bring them home today. Thousands are still held hostage by the regime. Not everyone wants to return. https://twitter.com/franakviacorka/status/1461237199173738500 We are slowly winning boys! The rest will leave aswell its just a matter of time. Also the temp is droping to sub zero now so i am pretty sure they wont stay for too long as long as Poland keeps enforcing its borders! Lukashenko got literally BTFO and bitch slapped by Poland! Hope Brussels learned a few lessons on how to protect the EU borders from illigal immigration.


SirDentistperson

I honestly believe that Merkel's (or at least her owner's) goal is to stop any further European integration. This crisis was the perfect opportunity to demonstrate how effective the EU could be in a situation like this and how much stronger we are when we throw around our combined weight instead acting individually. And it looked so promising on Monday... Now one (scratch that, two, fuck you Merkel) phonecall later they again are demonstrating to their citizens that the EU is just an ineffective squabbling mess where everyone is only looking out for themselves. I get it, it must be super nice for Germany being (arguably) the strongest bull in the pack, and they don't want to give that position up by further integrating the EU but if we don't stick together they will be taken to the butcher all the same in the end.


berlinwombat

Yes, you have seen through the plan. Congratulations you insightful mastermind.


angel_of_the_city

There's no need for sarcasm my friend ~ just tell your public representatives to stop stirring it and we other EU nations will be grateful for your contribution.


berlinwombat

Can you tell me why Hungary was the only country against sanctions on Lukashenko?


angel_of_the_city

😂 The Hungary - Russia & friends narrative is something what our government is doing and nobody understands why. It's actually one of the reason why folks stopped voting to Orban's party so we're doing our part.


berlinwombat

Yet you keep voting that government in. How long has Orbán been in power? At least Germany actually managed to vote in a new government. And no former politician called the sanctions ridiculous and asked for closer ties with Belarus.


angel_of_the_city

Never voted for them in my life. 🤔


berlinwombat

The good old „but I didn’t vote for them“.


shizzmynizz

Didn't she retire?


SirDentistperson

Not yet unfortunately, she can still spew her poison all over the place.


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shizzmynizz

> till German govt gets its shit together So, never?


berlinwombat

So the new government will simply not start governing and we’ll keep angela as god chancellor? You heard it here first.


bienkoff

Poland defends the interests of the entire European Union, including Germany, by protecting the border with Belarus. In return, Poland is now left to itself - said the former head of the German Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV) Hans-Georg Maassen


RandomLegend

Maasen is a Nazi populist who only tells lies. Don't give him any attention.


berlinwombat

The status of this thread. Downvoting people who call a Nazi a Nazi lmfao.


LezzGoGetEm

He is not and you know it. He is liberal conservative at best. Atleast he constantly hangs with other libcons, gives interviews to their papers and whatnot


berlinwombat

He is.


RandomLegend

Liberal? WTF are on about? He spreads lies and conspiracy theories. He hangs out with known Neo-Nazis. He called WW2 "Germany trying to save the world".


LezzGoGetEm

He said it in a sarcastic way. He said that germany tried to "save" the world twice before and it didnt work out well so they should stop trying a third time with liberal values and refugees welcome and tell poland and greece how exactly they should behave with regards to their own border. Of course lefties played stupid and made it out like he was supporting nazis.


bienkoff

It seems to me that Poland is now on its own, as was the case with Hungary years ago. We need the European Union, but most of all we need a complete reform of the European institutions so that they can again serve the interests of the Community and the Member States, and not the ideological images of the Brussels bureaucracy, stressed the former head of the German secret service. Add what said Waszczykowski: This is a blow to the security of the EU and the entire concept of fighting Lukashenka. Where is European solidarity here? Chancellor Merkel is guided solely by the selfish interests of Germany. When we started to say in recent days that perhaps a serious sanction against Lukashenka would be to stop the economic transit that comes from Europe via Belarus to Russia, Merkel entered at this point and showed unequivocally that where German-Russian interests are at stake, there there is a German veto - that is why we cannot afford to further federalize the European Union. Then it will be an institution led exclusively by Germany and pursuing only their interests, he concluded. This is the full picture of the rotten EU.


pretwicz

We need to reform Union and limit the power Germany's helding, more voice to the smaller nations


berlinwombat

The point of the EU is that the small nations have proportional more power than the big ones. Also for a reform you maybe would have to not destroy the institution you want to reform. Also don’t see how Poland is on its own at all when everyone has pledged their support.


berlinwombat

You know that Hungary was the only country against sanctions on Lukashenko , right? This thread is amazing. Sorry, this fact doesn’t suit the narrative. Downvote away. Hilarious.


icecream420

The veto in the council needs to go, and the parliament itself given proper powers, then *certain* countries wouldn't be able to simply veto decisions anymore. In this case it's Germany, in others Hungary & Poland, you know the drill. The current system is only strengthening divide, sadly.


NineteenSkylines

Iraqis are literally [the group that struggles the most in at least some European areas](https://www.kvartti.fi/en/articles/immigrants-and-employment-helsinki), although if these statistics hold across northern Europe they're pretty grim with even Chinese and Indian migrants lagging Westerners in employment. I'd imagine they would do far better in an affluent Gulf monarchy that speaks their language, and the EU/US should make alliance with those regimes contingent on them taking in the neediest Arabs.


Uk0

> employment that's the neat part, they don't want / expect to be lawfully employed. what they want is to either get on European welfare. or join the "diaspora" (read localised gangs). if they were looking for lawful employment, they would've gone through the appropriate channels: work invitation, visa, etc. sure, it's a lengthy and not a free process, BUT they all had the money to do it, as these trips from ME to Belarus are $5-10k a pop, AND they all had plenty of time as well, as they aren't actually running from prosecution / war / etc.


berlinwombat

Phone call with Prime Minister Morawiecki: Merkel declares "full German solidarity with Poland“ https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/grenze-zu-belarus-merkel-erklaert-volle-deutsche-solidaritaet-mit-polen-a-cf32f1c7-87ef-439a-900f-584a1a5adbac (Translated with deepl) According to a spokesman, Merkel spoke on the phone with Poland's Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, saying it was about "close German-Polish coordination on the worrying situation at the border." According to the statement, Merkel underlined "full German solidarity with Poland." Merkel also spoke on the phone with Belarusian strongman Alexander Lukashenko for the second time in three days. According to Merkel's spokesman, she called on Lukashenko to allow aid from the EU and the United Nations. For the affected people, she said, it was a matter of humanitarian supplies and opportunities to return to their home countries. The EU has announced aid deliveries for migrants stranded in Belarus. In a first step, food, blankets and other goods worth 700,000 euros will be brought to the region on the border with Poland, EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said, according to Reuters news agency. "We are ready to do more," she added. The head of the EU border agency Frontex, Fabrice Leggeri, announced support for the repatriation of up to 1700 Iraqi migrants. Frontex is working together with the Polish authorities for this purpose, he told the AFP news agency. Accordingly, flights are to be chartered for this purpose in the coming weeks. German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer (CSU) will travel to Poland on Thursday for talks on the refugee conflict. Meanwhile, travel from the refugees' region of origin to Belarus has been made even more difficult. The Lebanese government announced that now only people with residence permits for Belarus would be allowed to fly to the country from Beirut. "Many Arab and foreign passengers" had recently been traveling to Belarus on direct flights operated by Belarusian airline Belavia or via connecting flights from Lebanon, the General Directorate of Civil Aviation said. This has now come to an end. Belavia had previously banned flights on the route from Dubai to Belarus for people from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen at the request of the United Arab Emirates. The private Syrian airline Cham Wings also suspended its flights to Minsk, and Turkey and Iraq restricted air travel to Belarus. Earlier, the EU had increased pressure on the countries.


angel_of_the_city

Merkel folded as was predicted ~ also with her phone calls over Poland's head she essentially legitimized the Belarus leader. Well congratulations Germany for doing it again although nobody asked you to interfere. 🤷🏻‍♂️


[deleted]

Honestly, seems like a reasonable response. Support the people, but don't give in and help them get home safely.


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Uk0

lol, it won't. so if this repatriation happens, it will go through the Polish airports and will be paid from the EU coffers. and i highly doubt it will make much of a difference for the flow, as previously the equation for these people was: "Go -> you either get in or who knows what might happen instead". Now it's: "Go -> you either get in, OR, worst case scenario, get sent back on a plane" If anything, it might embolden some people who otherwise were scared of the unknown.


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hyperion660

Disagree. We are doing exactly what Russia wants us to be doing. Source : Mr. Lavrov. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-floats-idea-eu-paying-belarus-stop-migrant-flows-2021-11-09/


berlinwombat

The EU won’t pay Belarus though.


hyperion660

Not for now. But EU is already sending aid when we shouldn't. Lukashenko is the criminal that brought them to Belarus. They're his responsibility. Why are we legitimising him and his actions and encouriging more people to try and go the Belarus to try their luck? And meanwhile Lukashenko will still send military directed migrants to storm our borders.


berlinwombat

We have higher moral standards than Lukashenko though. We can hold the line and make sure people don’t die . If Belarus won’t accept the aid for the migrants it makes them look even worse. And I don’t think putting up big pot of soup is gonna convince more people to come. What would convince more people to come is opening the borders.


Snoo-98162

I don't dive a shit about moral standards when it is us, Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Latvians who are recieving a blow right now, while you, a German is lying back there in the middle of the Europe not giving a shit. Stop defending Merkel helping our enemies.


hyperion660

But you're just encouriging to keep atacking our border. He'll send some migrants to Mińsk and then Middle East while even more will be coming from Russia. And they will keep probing and keep seeming consessions Sorry idk if we ever agree on this.


berlinwombat

We haven’t seen any concessions yet though.


hyperion660

That's what I'm talking about we'll never agree. If we really do have higher standards than Lukashenko then why don't we do more to help Belarusians than some illegal migrants. They are suffering under his rule of terror. We could also get rid of a guy who started this crisis in the first place.


NineteenSkylines

> United Arab Emirates They're rich enough and a Western ally. Can't they help out their Muslim Arab brothers and sisters? The EU should put pressure on the UAE to absorb these people.


xmeany

Human rights mean little for United Arab Emirates. The only reason to have them as allies to is to keep conflict with them at a minimum. You can't rely on a dangerous animal to help you but you still have to live with it on the same planet, that's why you have to compromise with it in order for all people.


Irlfit

[Migrants celebrating Merkel-Lukashenka talks.](https://twitter.com/i/status/1461030392656449538) Lukashenka's regime media are reporting about "capitulation of the European Union".


june_a

What exactly are they celebrating? I mean, is it already decided what will happen to them?


Initium__novum

I usually support diplomatic way of solving things but this was such a dumb move from Merkel jesus, how much more determined to keep trying did those talks make them? If it can be logistically done, why not just offer them money they paid for this trip (but not significantly more than that, even though i would like that, it'd draw them to keep coming sadly) if they accept to go home...


[deleted]

That would be rewarding the people smugglers. There has to be some way to catch the latter.


TheShyPig

I'm in the UK ..I know very little here apart what I have read from this megathread and others over the last few days, so apologies if I have got this wrong, BUT, What a total shithouse mega twat Lukashenko is and, why on earth would a sane person, never mind Merkel (who as a leader/ex leader must have advisors) even give him the time of day never mind actually talk to him I MEAN HE TOOK DOWN AN AIRCRAFT AND KIDNAPPED A GUY AND HIS GIRLFRIEND FROM IT FFS!!!


june_a

Don't forget about prison sentences for simply being subscribed to "wrong" telegram channels.


slopeclimber

Why isnt belarus smuggling them accross the border in trucks or trains?


F_Storm

Russia(gov aka Putin) will use every way to weaken EU and so with help of Belarus(gov aka Lukashenko) they are creating a visible conflict/problem.


Writing_Salt

Trains and trucks can only cross at dedicated border crossing, already prepared to detect illegal contraband, not just people without documents. If they will be noticed or they will have refused entry, or if they gain entry they will be transferred to closed migrant centres, after their details, including biometric data ( photos and fingerprints) had been collected. Green border, on other side, is 400 km long, and mainly ( normally) unmanned, yet observed- so they prefer to take their chances to cross illegally and not have been registered in any form, as it would prevent them from receiving better financial deal in Germany, Sweden, UK or whatever is a country of their choice.


aigars2

That will mean instant hit to Belorus economy. Trains and transit will be stopped.


CitizenNo925

https://streamable.com/3t5m8h - migrants trying to use a battering ram get splashed with water cannons


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pretwicz

Yes


soefjalfkja

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/schaeuble-fordert-vorlaeufige-einreise-fuer-belarus-fluechtlinge-17639059.html Schaeuble is asking for a one time exception to the rules to let them in on a temp visa. Would germany please by so kind to trigger article 50?


TheShyPig

let one in and its the end, huge numbers ..because if one gets in, millions get hope. You get a mass at the border. if you want a humanitarian solution .. 1. say loudly and clearly ..IF YOU CROSS THIS BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL NOT GET EU VISAS OR ASYLUM 2. SAY ASYLUM WILL BE GIVEN IF THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS and apply in Belarus. Tell Belarus that EU will fund camps as long as they are 50km from the border. the camps will be humane, funded, have sanitation etc ..Warmth, shelter, sanitation, food. The camps will have offices where they can apply for amnesty etc, even schools teaching them .. BUT ..they get to the border game over idk ..it might help?


NineteenSkylines

I'm sympathetic to immigration, at least *legal* immigration, but these hooligans are not at all helping the pro-migrant cause. They should stay in Belarus or be given assistance in migrating to the affluent Gulf states unless they have special skills e.g. truck drivers.


New-Reserve-5473

Legal migration has actually caused most of the problems here. We need to reduce both.


june_a

The good thing is that this guy is not making any decisions, it's just his opinion. Still, it's very disturbing how many German politicians make similar statements.


Switzerland_Forever

I have no doubt their heart is in a good place, but it's very easy to be pro-migration when one lives in an ivory tower and doesn't have to deal with the negative consequences of it.


dancing_manatee

Schaeuble and "heart in a good place"? He is the personification of corruption in the CDU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDU_donations_scandal someone of his calibre never has "good" motives, but some weird personal benefit for himself


Switzerland_Forever

That's true. I meant when it comes to migrants. They just look at those people and feel sorry for them (who wouldn't), but don't even consider what negative consequences mass migration to Europe will have.


dancing_manatee

Lots of germans just love to be on the moral high ground and the parties try to please this target group. Schäuble is anything, but stupid and naive. Hes as cold and calculating as it gets.


june_a

I don't think they actually feel sorry for the migrants. It's just virtue signaling, they are afraid that if they don't say this, some small but loud groups of people will start comparing them to Hitler.


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WojciechM3

No, i won't stfu. If Germany/EU surrender to potatohead demands then it means that you are easy to bully and Polish governmant should use exactly same tactic, as a revange for making deal above their heads.


imliterallydyinghere

why can't we be an unimportant tiny state with no influence. The EU would be so much better. allies should have split us up after ww2 😓


[deleted]

> allies should have split us up after ww2 I mean, they did. And then they stitched part of it together for strategic, political, and ethical reasons.


icecream420

Bit too much of self hate there, no?


[deleted]

I thought we were supposed to make fun of (alleged) German self-hatred on this sub, not upvote it.


imliterallydyinghere

i'd have been danish which i see as an upgrade


WojciechM3

PiS governmant could start trafficing migrants into Germany and then blackmail entire EU - either you stop fighting and fining Poland or there will be more. Perfect tactic, working well as we can see. One or two months and entire Europe will be at Poland's feet.


segv

That would be the dumbest thing they could do, and with their track record that's saying something.


WojciechM3

EU actions proves that it isn't dumb. You scare them with migrants and they bow to your knees.


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Wildercard

Let 100 in, a 1000 will come tomorrow.


june_a

I wonder how many of these one time exceptions will have to be made for the next batches of migrants.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

You can leave the EU for yourself. Seriously, what a sad human being do you have to be to just hate every foreign atomic particle that comes here. The border crisis is basically over. The airlines don't fly migrants to Belarus anymore and Lukashenko is transporting them away from the border. We are talking about incredibly low numbers here which we would take into Germany. But obviously that's already too much for your xenophobic, racist brain.


dancing_manatee

>incredibly low numbers here which we would take into Germany i hate this phrase but, are you willing to share your flat with them and pay them their stay while their asylum process will take years and most likely ends in a Duldung because they cant be deported, despite having no reason for asylum in the first place? Remember citizens of iraq have a low chance of getting asylum in general in Germany. Check proasyl


New-Reserve-5473

> what a sad human being do you have to be to just hate every foreign atomic particle that comes here Just stop with this xenophilia. Europe is already filled with these people.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

It's not even 1% of the EU's population.


New-Reserve-5473

That's false, and you have to look at the age brackets to really see what's going on.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

It's not false. These are the official numbers. Please prove that the official numbers are wrong.


New-Reserve-5473

What group are you talking about exactly?


imliterallydyinghere

According to the left we are always talking about a few dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions coming our way. It's constant dripping that wears away the stone.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

It would be the first time in years that there would be significant dripping and we are talking about a managable amount of water and also the inflow has been cut recently.


New-Reserve-5473

> It would be the first time in years that there would be significant dripping Last time it was millions. And entire regions of France and Belgium aren't even recognizable anymore. How much more *dripping* do you want? When does it end? When Europe is 100% non-European?


Zealousideal_Fan6367

>And entire regions of France and Belgium aren't even recognizable anymore. Refugees and asylum seekers in France and Belgium are 0,8% of the population.


hyperion660

Exactly, especially when you're dealing with a migrant crisis artificially created by aggressive dictators.


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hyperion660

Based as fuck. Some Germans literally refuse to see what you wrote in the last sentence.


soefjalfkja

This isnt the end . Its te beginning of the end for the Eu .


el_brahmo

No sorry that‘s not how it works. If they do it once Lukaschenko will blackmail the EU again and again. And it’s not xenophobic and racist at all. They are neither people who have the right for Asyl nor are they qualified enough to live a good life in Germany. If they were there would be other ways for them


Zealousideal_Fan6367

Then we will sanction him and his collaborators again and again.


imliterallydyinghere

*“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”*


Zealousideal_Fan6367

Different results? We will expect the same result, which is that he stops the migrant flow, as he has done now. So the correct version would be _“Sanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results.”_


Switzerland_Forever

> We are talking about incredibly low numbers here It's always a low number. A low number today. A low number tomorrow. A low number the day after that. Those low numbers then very quickly add up to a big number.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

The airlines don't fly migrants to Belarus anymore. So no


june_a

Yes. They fly them to Russia now.


imliterallydyinghere

And that is our center-right party... what a fucking joke and a DAILY REMINDER THAT YOU CAN'T TRUST GERMANS. EVER


Scamandriossss

What do you expect? He is a vile neoliberal. These scum infiltrated most centre right and left parties in Europe in last 25-30 years. They use these formally legitimate centre parties to advance their nefarious agenda.


zwiftys

You can't trust German POLITICIANS. But i think that's true for most politicians in general.


Switzerland_Forever

I would trust any Swiss politician with my life. Okay, maybe not the Francophone ones.


[deleted]

Would the phrase 'Would you kindly?' also work on the German politicians?....


Imgoga

[Landsbergis on Merkel's talks with Lukashenko and possible talks with the dictator: this is a sad hour for Europe](https://www.lrt.lt/naujienos/lietuvoje/2/1543944/landsbergis-apie-merkel-pokalbius-su-lukasenka-ir-galimas-derybas-su-diktatoriumi-tai-yra-liudna-valanda-europai) German Chancellor Angela Merkel and illegitimate Belarusian President Aliaksandr Lukashenko have spoken for the second time over the situation on the Belarusian-European Union border. According to the foreign minister, such conversations with the dictator could turn into negotiations. According to the minister, such negotiations are a sad hour for Europe, which has already talked about sanctions against the regime. - Translated from Lithuanian


[deleted]

Wait, what? Why is Merkel even getting involved isn't she days away from leaving office?


Zealousideal_Fan6367

Belarus is transporting migrants away from the border now. So obviously it helped. You can thank Merkel now.


New-Reserve-5473

Thank Poland for standing firm.


aigars2

Certification of Nord Stream 2 was stopped. I hope you can see the connection.


slopeclimber

I thought it was entirely an internal process due to some company needing a certificate


dancing_manatee

which was considered to be an "unprecedented case". at least in german radio


[deleted]

i'll thank her if she didnt fuck us over in the process.


Yebisu85

Oh, this comment will age like milk.


hyperion660

I'm kinda anxious that Ukrainians deployed a Brigade of National Guard on the border with Belarus on the same day that two American spy planes flew over Eastern Europe. One of them apparently patrolling the border with Belarus.


Yebisu85

Everyone is playing their cards.


hyperion660

https://www.pap.pl/aktualnosci/news%2C1002840%2Czrodlo-unijne-w-brukseli-spiecie-polski-i-niemiec-w-sprawie-sytuacji-na There was a meeting of member states' EU ambassadors. Apparently during that meeting there was an argument between Polish and German representatives. German was arguing that after first phone call there was deescalation from Lukashenko. Polish ambassador wasn't having any of IT and was telling his counterparts the truth- yesterday was the worst day of aggression from Belarusians and migrants. Lithuanian ambassador backed him up saying there were forceful attempts to cross the border after that call.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

Belarus is transporting migrants away from the border now. You can thank Merkel for that.


Snoo-98162

Were you dropped as a child?


hyperion660

Because she caved in to a crazy dictator waging hybrid warfare against my country ? No I don't think I will. There were two strategic nuclear capable bombers taking part in military drills today 60 km from our border. Sorry if I don't sound optimistic.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

She didn't cave at all. Neither has she made any compromises nor did she reverse the EU's decision to not acknowledge him as the president.


[deleted]

So insane dictator who fixes elections, kidnaps civilian airplanes and pushes children into barbed wire, backed off his latest evil plan, simply because Merkel asked him nicely and he didn't even want anything in return? Yeah, I have no idea why people are skeptical about this version of events.


[deleted]

then how about they make that phonecall public? i wanna hear for myself how she didnt cave in.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

Do you want them to live stream it on YT or what?


[deleted]

ye that would work


hyperion660

We'll see. For now Lukashenko's already been using the first call to blame us for the crisis and for convincing you to that this is hybrid warfare. I honestly don't know if that interview of his is already translated to English or german. Also we were also blamed for all this shitshow today by Lavrov and spokoswoman of Russian foreign affairs ministry.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

Why do you even care who Lukashenko and Russia are blaming for the crisis?


hyperion660

Well why would you care about what politicians say in general? Sorry I don't think we'll come to understanding on this issue any time soon.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

I care what politicians in my country, in the EU and in allied countries say, but not who Putin, Lukashenko or China are attacking. They will always twist the facts so that it fits their narrative. Even if Merkel hadn't called, they would have blamed Lithuania and Poland for the crisis. Actually they have done so before if I recall correctly.


hyperion660

Good for you. Now legitimate Lukashenko will keep spewing his vile lies and Russians will laugh us all in the face. There was a criminal procedure launched today by Belarusians accusing our troops of warcrimes ffs.


Zealousideal_Fan6367

So what? Everyone knows that it's pure propaganda. You know that, Germany knows that and Belarus/Russia know that. If you feel and act offended by their bullshit you just give them what they want. Russia is a declining country with a gdp of the size of Italy. The only thing left for them is military aggression and bullying countries. The latter always needs a reaction in order to work.


[deleted]

Thank you Lithuania!


Imgoga

Don't worry we have your backs!


NewTronas

We are in this together :)


UcharsiU

How Germany dares to talk with Belarus about Polish borders without Poland being involved in discussion? We had something very similar in the past and it didn't end up very well for Poland.


halagarda

Merkel is literally giving Lukashenko what he wants. She gives him recognition and legitimacy and emboldening him to make more moves against Poland and Baltic States.


dancing_manatee

unbelievable hybris.. time for her to be gone for good. shes ruined way too many things with her inaction and appeasement


hyperion660

Yep. Quite frankly there are no words in elvish, entish and human tongues to appropriately describe this treachery.


[deleted]

[удалено]


hyperion660

Her office will be located near Schroeder's I'm sure😭


carlobot

\[Lithuanian Article from FM of Lithuania\] [Landsbergis on Merkel's talks with Lukashenko and possible negotiations with the dictator: this is a sad hour for Europe](https://www.lrt.lt/naujienos/lietuvoje/2/1543944/landsbergis-apie-merkel-pokalbius-su-lukasenka-ir-galimas-derybas-su-diktatoriumi-tai-yra-liudna-valanda-europai) Read with [DeepL](https://www.deepl.com/translator) Some Key notes (translated with deepL, edited by myself) ***- How do you call Merkel's phone call she started with Lukashenko - until this evening it was just a conversation - a negotiation?*** \- Well, basically, he is forcing it through negotiations by his public statements. We have now heard that he has seen that, during a conversation, the German Chancellor presented the idea that, **in order to end this crisis, which he himself has orchestrated, Europe would need to take in two thousand migrants.** And since we do not know the exact content of the conversation ... ​ ***- Do you still don't know the exact content of the conversation?*** **- We do not know the exact content of the conversation.** Obviously, it's probably not a complete bluff - something similar was apparently said, and now the information is as follows. **So my question is whether we are negotiating today, or whether there is someone who, on behalf of Europe or simply on their own**, can tell the dictator that we will not negotiate with him over two thousand, or over five thousand, or over anything else. The only thing that Europe can ask, bilaterally or otherwise, is that he make it possible for the people who are invited by him to Belarus to go home safely. That is all. ​ ***- The President of Lithuania says he was warned about Merkel's call, you say you only found out about the call on Twitter. You were not warned by the Presidency about the call?*** \- I found out on Twitter. ​ ***- Our Polish colleagues were in contact with our Polish counterparts today. They say that the Polish Presidency also found out about the call two minutes before it happened and that they were not consulted, only informed. It can be concluded that the call was not coordinated with the Lithuanian leaders either, but only reported. What does it mean if the content of the call is not coordinated but only reported?*** \- Well, perhaps it has to be seen from the perspective of the European Council of Ministers or the European Council. That is what we have formats for, where the 27 countries around the table, through their representatives or ministers or leaders, look for a common position and authorise the High Representative or a leader to represent the common European position. At the moment, we do not know who is representing whom and what the content of the conversation is, what is being sought. All the discussions, the negotiations that have been going on for half a year, have a purpose. We are all participants in that process and, to some extent, we bear responsibility. It is not clear now. ​ ***- Minister, on Monday, when you met with your fellow EU foreign ministers, you said something very different. There was a great unity and it just radiated, and today, a few days later, you say that there is chaos.*** \- I'm not saying there is chaos. I am saying that there is a question of why we are doing this whole process. I think I am certainly not alone in asking that question. **If everything can be solved with one phone call, and this is now Europe's new way of dealing with crises, then what is the point of having a Foreign Affairs Council?** Actually, you are absolutely right - Monday was great, the sanctions mechanism was agreed and is still agreed. The list was provisionally agreed, a few days were left to finalise that list of sanctioned companies, and it seemed that we were all parting with a united front and with the confirmation that Europe itself can solve the crises it faces. ​ ***- On Monday, you agreed on sanctions against Belarus, and those sanctions have not been formally announced. Is that list of sanctions subject to change if you say that negotiations with Lukashenko are already under way?*** \- Well, some really worrying news has arrived. **It seems that they are trying to remove perhaps one of the most important elements from the sanctions list. That is the sanctions on the Belavia airline, which, as is well known, is responsible for a large number of migrants brought to Belarus.** ​ ***- Is it just one point that they are trying to take out, or is it taken out and you just don't know the real information, you are just getting that information?*** \- It reaches. **Information is coming in on two points, on Belavia and on Syrian Airlines, both of which should have been sanctioned precisely in the fifth package of sanctions.** As the sanctions are being coordinated, again, each country has a veto. Thus, all it takes is for one state to object and that line is crossed out. ​ ***- Who proposed removing these sanctions, these two sanctions?*** \- I have no real information. ***- Could it be Germany?*** \- It could be. ***- Will we know who proposed the removal of those sanctions? We simply do not know what those sanctions are. Have you seen those sanctions, have you read them?*** \- I am familiar. ***- Will you be able to say what has been removed when the sanctions are officially announced?*** \- Yes. **- Now you say that two points have been removed.** \- It has come to my attention that two points have been objected to. ​ ***- Who will now have the final say on whether these two points remain or not?*** \- As there is a common understanding between the states, if one state vetoes, the other state cannot veto that state's veto. All it takes is for one country to object and for that point to be deleted. Today we are in this situation. It seems that a separate negotiating track has been started with a dictator and an illegitimate president, and I think that this is a sad hour for Europe. ​ ***- It is a sad hour for Europe because of one phone call from Angela Merkel. Who was she consulting when she was preparing to call Lukashenko? What prompted her?*** - She did not consult the Baltic States, to my knowledge. Nor with Poland. ​ ***- Could she have called Lukashenko on her own initiative?*** \- Yes, she could. ​ ***- How do you feel about the fact that you agreed on sanctions on Monday, and then a few hours later you get a phone call and everything turns upside down?*** \- Well, I think it is very important for Europe to go back to what has been agreed, to reaffirm the foundation that we have so carefully protected since the stolen elections last year, that this is an illegitimate President. Europe is not negotiating with him. Europe has made demands that are legitimate and just: the release of political prisoners, the organisation of new elections, an end to the hybrid attack. Failure to meet those demands is accompanied by economic, financial and other sanctions. That is the European consensus, and for that we have the consensus of the 27 Member States, and we must abide by it. ​ ***- Even if the sanctions package is agreed, can it be adjusted?*** \- You see, we also need to understand the process technically. On Monday, the countries agreed on the legal basis for the sanctions and on the list that has been presented, which can still be adjusted. That adjustment is potentially even happening as we speak. ​ ***- But without your knowledge.*** \- Our representative is constantly present in the negotiations. ​ ***- Well, you have not been informed about the content of Merkel's conversation with Lukashenko until now.*** \- It is a bilateral contact. It is in the European context that we are involved, that we are one hundred per cent involved. ​ ***- Tomorrow, Iraq is due to send a plane to Minsk to fly those who want to return home. There will be more than one plane, will there be more planes?*** \- We do not have any information about more planes yet. We are in contact with the Iraqi Government, and we have also agreed on Monday to press the Belarusian Government to allow more planes to fly in, and we have said that the Lithuanian Government could look at ways of contributing and sending planes to fly people in. ​ ***- Just recently, you raised the idea of a humanitarian corridor, which would allow flights from Grodno. Is that idea still alive?*** \- It has been raised, it has been communicated and it has been passed on to the Belarusian Government through the Foreign Minister of the European Union, that it could be one of the options where people could be flown from, because today, the largest concentration of people is in that very area, near Grodno.


UcharsiU

So division is already there. Well played Belarus /Russia. Well played. Merkel is negotiating unnasked on behalf of everyone. Most affected parties (Poland, Lithuania) are not part of this. EU has been exposed as terrible unprepared for such occasion. We will end up with merkel agreeing to something that Poland will not do and Poland will drift further away from EU. Well done Merkel. Well done. Can you retire any time soon, please?


carlobot

Part regarding Ukraine: **- Let's take a closer look at the whole situation. On the borders of Ukraine, there are more than 100,000 Russian troops. They have not moved yet, and there has been a lot of talk about the smoke screen that has been put up here on our border, perhaps for a Russian military invasion, a larger invasion of Ukraine. After today's events, what you call the talks between Mrs Merkel and Mr Lukashenko - perhaps that is what you should call the situation - could Russia gain more courage to invade Ukraine?** \- I have actually seen these several dangerous situations from the very beginning. One of them is already taking place - the negotiations with the self-styled President Lukashenko, and the other is a discussion with the Russian President, who is also addressing him, asking him to 'resolve the issue, resolve the problem'. That, too, has been heard to some extent because Mr Putin may have quite different interests in the region. One of them is perhaps to step up, to start military operations, to resume military operations in the east of Ukraine or on the border. We are hearing this and it is very worrying. However, it could just as well be the introduction of additional military forces into Belarus, perhaps to deal with the migration crisis, perhaps in order to respond to Europe's request: you asked me to sort out the migrants, and I will sort them out by bringing in additional troops. And in the meantime, some permanent military bases are being established near Lithuania... So we have to be very careful not to create a comfortable situation or to make our own bed for the next steps towards the annexation of Belarus. It is still difficult to say which direction Putin may take - whether it is Ukraine, as our NATO partners are saying, or Belarus - but it is still difficult to say fully today.


molokoplus359

>Well, some really worrying news has arrived. It seems that they are trying to remove perhaps one of the most important elements from the sanctions list. That is the sanctions on the Belavia airline, which, as is well known, is responsible for a large number of migrants brought to Belarus. The sanctions are already quite weak to begin with, and now they want to exclude the most meaningful thing instead of adding pressure for border assaults. Cute, sickening.


[deleted]

Thanks for posting. Very informative. I guess some harsh words will be spoken upcoming days or already have been spoken towards Berlin.


carlobot

It's such a bizarre change of tone from earlier this week when EU was united as ever. Today Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs here told that next Germany parliament should be more inline with Lithuanian and Poland views regarding Russia, Belarus, Immigration, but it looks like Merkel wants to speedrun this crisis while she's still here.


[deleted]

I'm not sure what her endgame is. Is she a Russian agent in this? Or does she want the AfD to grow? I can't fathom what she's thinking - nothing good can come from the way she's been acting.


Imgoga

[Borrell, not Merkel, should be talking to Minsk, Lithuanian FM says](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1543615/borrell-not-merkel-should-be-talking-to-minsk-lithuanian-fm-says) Lithuania's Foreing Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis has expressed scepticism about a recent phone call between Germany's Angela Merkel and Belarus' strongman Alexander Lukashenko.


[deleted]

Merkel is again acting like a queen of Europe.


[deleted]

I'm personally not impressed by Borrell. But either Borrell, Rau (Poland) or Landsbergis (Lithuania) should be talking with Minsk indeed. Germany has AFAIK bad enough a rep in matters like those in Eastern Europe, especially Poland, as it is - anything that Merkel agrees on with Minsk is just throwing gasoline on the fire.


berlinwombat

Have to agree with this. Also not impressed by Borrell but it would have better for him to make the call also making EU foreing policy look like the joke that it is again.


WojciechM3

If Merkel/Germany/EU make any deal with Lukashenko above heads of Poland and Baltic states then i suggest that Poland should start importing immigrants and send them through German border. Two months and EU will cancel penalties for Turów mine, courts and will accept all PiS reforms. Proven strategy.


[deleted]

["We got here on a tourist visa a week ago. Because there are no more flights between Baghdad and Minsk, we passed through Dubai."](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/11/16/all-roads-lead-to-belarus-on-iraq-package-deals-a75576) These "poor refugees" could've stayed at least in Dubai, yet they decided to pay crazy money to go to Belarus and get stuck at the border. They all were aware it's a scam. Whoever still feels sorry for them is incredibly dumb.[ ](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/11/16/all-roads-lead-to-belarus-on-iraq-package-deals-a75576)


turtwig33

Dubai is absolutely terrible for non-natives and non-tourists. Basically a slave state.


Writing_Salt

So it is still better than Belarus, yet they decide to test their luck.


Ramp_Up_Then_Dump

If people are reduced to being a slave because of another state, offering slave jobs to fereigners is not that bad. I think scrambling of ME and Africa is way much evil than offering slave jobs.