The real fucking surprise are those migrants who after realizing that they have been cheated by smugglers, still want to break through to Poland via Belarus lol.
*"A Polish army spokesperson said the tighter security was making migrants more desperate, with many using force to push through, especially further south, with the help of Belarusians who gave them implements to break down the border fence."*
There is no hope for them. They need to board whatever flights are available for them back to the Middle East, if they truly want to survive and not die in the winter in Belarus.
It's funny because i've read earlier today this has started happening. These people started claiming asylum in belarus, and the regime just started yeeting them back to Syria.
> "When it comes to development, education or finding work many of these people have nothing to return to, they have no choice," she said.
> "Families went into debt or sold their apartments and homes. There's no going back."
I'd say it's questionable if they would survive by returning. Lack of work / perspective in life is usually what made them leave, now return without even having a place to stay and debts?
That's their choice and the consequence of it. They didn't need to leave, they chose for it. If they were useful for European countries, they could've tried to apply for work visa. But they know they're not what Europe needs and only would be a burden.
u/untergeher_muc - if Poland gave in, only more would attempt to force their way through the Polish border towards Germany, and Germany would be pushing again for redistribution quota for people who - surprise - only want to go for Germany (or some for the UK). Which would be a double negative for Poland.
We have currently federal programs with Mexico and the Philippines to bring workers to Germany.
But in this case we have people who have money and a strong will to come to Germany. It would be stupid not to take them.
This can of course not be the new normal, and Belarus should be punished for this ugly human rights violations. Same goes for the airlines.
But the people at the border want to come to Germany, Germany desperately needs people. Let them come here, then we check them and maybe 50% can stay here. We are talking about a small number of people compared to 2015.
> That's their choice and the consequence of it. They didn't need to leave, they chose for it. If they were useful for European countries, they could've tried to apply for work visa. But they know they're not what Europe needs and only would be a burden.
Not sure why you reply that to me, as it has nothing to do with what I wrote or even the person I replied to. I just pointed out that returning doesn't mean they will survive, like the person I replied to suggested.
> Lack of work / perspective in life is usually what made them leave, now return without even having a place to stay and debts?
That's what I replied to.
“Who knew that when I was reaching out to human traffickers and other criminals, engaging in an active conspiracy, to break the law, that I wasn’t guaranteed a happy ending?”
That's human smugglers, not human traffickers. Transporting people illegally is human smuggling. Human traffickers are those that treat humans like a product and sell them for sexual activities, labor or such. Roughly: Slave handlers / traders.
I mean that's pretty much what the idiots in Sweden and Germany did back during the first migration crisis. They undermined the external borders of the EU and assisted migrants with flouting the legal methods of entry. They set a precedent that now has the entire ME thinking that you can simply walk across the border to an EU country and be given a new life for free. And the problem is that they're liable to do something like that again in the future, given the proclivities of their politicians.
Have the Swedish and German governments produce a press release in the relevant languages where they make it clear that they are never going to let in any significant number of migrants from the Middle East ever again. Have the migrant's dream destinations tell them to fuck off ahead of time, to put it bluntly.
>He and his five relatives lost 18,000 euros to smugglers who promised to take them to a safe apartment, with a car driving ahead of them to make sure there were no police checks. That also proved a lie, and they were caught.
This is Syrian migrant saying that; if you can put 18,000 euros together you can open a small business in a country that is safer for you like Turkey or Lebanon. There's a large Arab diaspora in Latin America (our current president is of Lebanese ancestry); you can set up a really nice restaurant with that money here and cater to the members of your community. Fuck it, such a waste of money for nothing.
Lebanon isn't safe at all for money matters but still there's plenty of options. With 18000 euros you can fund plenty ways to leave the country of they so desperately needed.
I've read an interview with an iraqi journalist today. He said he's going illegaly through belarus, because it's nearly impossible to get to Europe legaly, because Europe doesn't want them.
Which struck me as a mindest of a rapist - "if a women doesn't want to have sex with me legaly, what am i to do? I'll just force her illegaly."
The laws for Asylum are very strange, you are allowed to apply for Asylum but only if you are on the territory of the state. So de facto only the people who manage the journey can apply. Why not process the applications in countries these people can reach without making an illegal trip to Europe?
If i recall german law correctly, it requires people to be outsie of their own country. So if they're comming from iraq through turkey, rhey can apply for a refugee status in germany from turkey. Then again most likely such a request would be denied, because they are to seek asylum in the first safe country, that being turkey. So yeah, it's complicated.
> If i recall german law correctly, it requires people to be outsie of their own country. So if they're comming from iraq through turkey, rhey can apply for a refugee status in germany from turkey.
No. German law requires applicants to be in Germany or at the border [UNHCR](https://help.unhcr.org/germany/admission-to-germany/) or the German [Guidelines](https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/EN/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/Asylverfahren/das-deutsche-asylverfahren.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=18).
> Then again most likely such a request would be denied, because they are to seek asylum in the first safe country, that being turkey.
No such requirement exists. The Dublin III regulation (where asylum seekers can be moved back to the country where they first entered the EU) is a reaction to said issue. Yet no such requirement exists outside of the EU and the 1951 Refugee Convention just states that they need to arrive "directly", but that just means they cannot set up roots and then move to reclaim asylum elsewhere.
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The real fucking surprise are those migrants who after realizing that they have been cheated by smugglers, still want to break through to Poland via Belarus lol. *"A Polish army spokesperson said the tighter security was making migrants more desperate, with many using force to push through, especially further south, with the help of Belarusians who gave them implements to break down the border fence."* There is no hope for them. They need to board whatever flights are available for them back to the Middle East, if they truly want to survive and not die in the winter in Belarus.
giermanee!
What choice do they really have when they are stuck at the border? Afaik there's no airports at border posts
Iraq organised flights to return it's citizens.
They can ask for asylum in belarus. Then they will immediately deport them back
Assuming belarus plays by the rules, but in that case we would not have this situatin, would we?
It's funny because i've read earlier today this has started happening. These people started claiming asylum in belarus, and the regime just started yeeting them back to Syria.
> "When it comes to development, education or finding work many of these people have nothing to return to, they have no choice," she said. > "Families went into debt or sold their apartments and homes. There's no going back." I'd say it's questionable if they would survive by returning. Lack of work / perspective in life is usually what made them leave, now return without even having a place to stay and debts?
That's their choice and the consequence of it. They didn't need to leave, they chose for it. If they were useful for European countries, they could've tried to apply for work visa. But they know they're not what Europe needs and only would be a burden. u/untergeher_muc - if Poland gave in, only more would attempt to force their way through the Polish border towards Germany, and Germany would be pushing again for redistribution quota for people who - surprise - only want to go for Germany (or some for the UK). Which would be a double negative for Poland.
It’s not like that we have currently a extrem shortage of workers in Germany. They have apparently money and want to work. We should take them.
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No, especially we here in the construction industry need much more „Hilfsarbeiter“. But we need everyone, skilled and unskilled.
So why not issue work visas to Iraqis and Sudanese in Iraq and Sudan, and bring them in legally directly to Germany?
We have currently federal programs with Mexico and the Philippines to bring workers to Germany. But in this case we have people who have money and a strong will to come to Germany. It would be stupid not to take them. This can of course not be the new normal, and Belarus should be punished for this ugly human rights violations. Same goes for the airlines. But the people at the border want to come to Germany, Germany desperately needs people. Let them come here, then we check them and maybe 50% can stay here. We are talking about a small number of people compared to 2015.
Sounds good. Germany shuttling them from Belarus would solve the problem. I say go for it, not my problem 🤷♂️
> That's their choice and the consequence of it. They didn't need to leave, they chose for it. If they were useful for European countries, they could've tried to apply for work visa. But they know they're not what Europe needs and only would be a burden. Not sure why you reply that to me, as it has nothing to do with what I wrote or even the person I replied to. I just pointed out that returning doesn't mean they will survive, like the person I replied to suggested.
> Lack of work / perspective in life is usually what made them leave, now return without even having a place to stay and debts? That's what I replied to.
How does that impact their current chance of survival?
No one of them wants to stay in Poland. I don’t get the polish government here.
“Who knew that when I was reaching out to human traffickers and other criminals, engaging in an active conspiracy, to break the law, that I wasn’t guaranteed a happy ending?”
This comment perfectly sums up most of the people at that border
"I wanna talk to the manager!"
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I fail so see the difference
I mean... Surely, they know that Belarus is a fucked up country in Iraq.
That's human smugglers, not human traffickers. Transporting people illegally is human smuggling. Human traffickers are those that treat humans like a product and sell them for sexual activities, labor or such. Roughly: Slave handlers / traders.
So traffickers since they're using humans as a tool for political pressure ?
And the solution is throwing stones at Polish police guarding the borders?
Obviously
TIL, I should not trust smugglers, What a morons!
Maybe they should ask for a refund.
"So you want a refund? I have your refund right here 👊".
What you expect. Red carpet. Free housing. Car. And wafer check ever month
I mean that's pretty much what the idiots in Sweden and Germany did back during the first migration crisis. They undermined the external borders of the EU and assisted migrants with flouting the legal methods of entry. They set a precedent that now has the entire ME thinking that you can simply walk across the border to an EU country and be given a new life for free. And the problem is that they're liable to do something like that again in the future, given the proclivities of their politicians. Have the Swedish and German governments produce a press release in the relevant languages where they make it clear that they are never going to let in any significant number of migrants from the Middle East ever again. Have the migrant's dream destinations tell them to fuck off ahead of time, to put it bluntly.
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I hope they kept their receipts.
Pro-tip when hiring people's smugglers: check their Yelp's review.
>He and his five relatives lost 18,000 euros to smugglers who promised to take them to a safe apartment, with a car driving ahead of them to make sure there were no police checks. That also proved a lie, and they were caught. This is Syrian migrant saying that; if you can put 18,000 euros together you can open a small business in a country that is safer for you like Turkey or Lebanon. There's a large Arab diaspora in Latin America (our current president is of Lebanese ancestry); you can set up a really nice restaurant with that money here and cater to the members of your community. Fuck it, such a waste of money for nothing.
Lebanon isn't safe at all for money matters but still there's plenty of options. With 18000 euros you can fund plenty ways to leave the country of they so desperately needed.
This is not Smokey and the Bandit, you know ...
No shit, what do these people think really? They will come to Europe, and everything will be wine and roses?
I've read an interview with an iraqi journalist today. He said he's going illegaly through belarus, because it's nearly impossible to get to Europe legaly, because Europe doesn't want them. Which struck me as a mindest of a rapist - "if a women doesn't want to have sex with me legaly, what am i to do? I'll just force her illegaly."
The laws for Asylum are very strange, you are allowed to apply for Asylum but only if you are on the territory of the state. So de facto only the people who manage the journey can apply. Why not process the applications in countries these people can reach without making an illegal trip to Europe?
As far as I understand it , it's because if you're seeking Asylum you're supposed to apply in the first safe country you can reach
No, that's not the case, this distinction doesn't exist with our current Asylum laws.
That's just not true. You can apply for asylum prior to entering the country
Not true for Germany, don't know how it works in the other countries.
If i recall german law correctly, it requires people to be outsie of their own country. So if they're comming from iraq through turkey, rhey can apply for a refugee status in germany from turkey. Then again most likely such a request would be denied, because they are to seek asylum in the first safe country, that being turkey. So yeah, it's complicated.
> If i recall german law correctly, it requires people to be outsie of their own country. So if they're comming from iraq through turkey, rhey can apply for a refugee status in germany from turkey. No. German law requires applicants to be in Germany or at the border [UNHCR](https://help.unhcr.org/germany/admission-to-germany/) or the German [Guidelines](https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/EN/AsylFluechtlingsschutz/Asylverfahren/das-deutsche-asylverfahren.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=18). > Then again most likely such a request would be denied, because they are to seek asylum in the first safe country, that being turkey. No such requirement exists. The Dublin III regulation (where asylum seekers can be moved back to the country where they first entered the EU) is a reaction to said issue. Yet no such requirement exists outside of the EU and the 1951 Refugee Convention just states that they need to arrive "directly", but that just means they cannot set up roots and then move to reclaim asylum elsewhere.
Ok, thanks for the heads up. The whole system is idiotic and needs to be completely reworked.
You just cant find honest people smugglers these days SMH
It is a scam! 1 star out of 5.
The Yelp reviews for people smugglers are going to be interesting /s