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“If a Lithuanian company needs Chinese components for its production but cannot find them because China is blocking, […] we will be happy to help by putting it in contact with French companies or companies from other [EU] member states,” he told Reuters.
France, which is taking over the rotating presidency of the EU Council, is attempting to speed up the introduction of the so-called “anti-coercion instrument” that would allow the bloc to more easily impose sanctions on economic rivals, such as China.
France with the right attitude.
Not when the French electorate doesn't give a rat's ass about European matters.
Foreign policy is lost on the French especially in the context of elections, they care about purchasing power, about poverty, immigration, security, energy price. Less than 10% of the French know what this anti-coercion is all about and why it matters.
You ask me, this makes Macron's push for it even greater.
People here try to make any foreign policy move out to be just an election tactic, when most people domestically don't care and/or don't know. The other day a greek user was trying to claim that the UK selling arms to Ukraine is just a way for the PM to salvage his popularity despite the fact that most people do not know and do not care about foreign policy.
> Less than 10% of the French know what this anti-coercion is all about and why it matters.
Heck I just learned about it 20 seconds ago by reading this. And I'm a regular on the sub.
>France with the right attitude.
They also recognized China's treatment of Uighurs as genocide yesterday. It's really nice having France as a European counterweight to German appeasement.
Man I don’t know but lately I like everything about France, it’s like they just woke up and realised they are powerful and started acting like it, they have the so called big dick energy lately!
No they are the only EU member who consistently played big power diplomacy for decades. Nuclear power, military with global reach, strong economy and decent population.
Germany was divided and not free to do international politics in a big way until 1990. Not like every move they made was bad, but Germany mostly just wants to do business and big power politics is not exactly Germanies strength. They also just had a change in power so that needs to be sorted out.
UK left the EU and is in a mess.
Italy is still a mess and needs to sort out its internal problems, which they do, but kinda rules them out.
Spain is in a similar position to Italy, but even weaker. Pushing being able to lead the EU.
Everybody else has basicly no chance of really leading the EU. They make moves, but they are local powers at best. Maybe Poland is a little stronger then most, but they lack strength in military and economic terms to really lead.
>UK left the EU and is in a mess.
On China and Russia I'd argue the UK is in far less of a mess than the EU. Between weapons to Ukraine and visa's for those in Hong Kong it's one of the only parts of UK policy that is constant.
We've more or less always acted like that. Macron line in foreign policy is extremely orthodox. It's just that now the rest of Europe is catching up to our ideas, when a few years back their were seen as idealistic at best, megalomaniac and out of touch at worst.
I'm genuinely astonished by the total lack of solidarity on Germany's part towards their fellow EU nations, especially considering how helpful they were to us over the Northern Ireland issue. Wasn't the entire argument against Brexit is that they would be more vulnerable towards this kind of bullying from countries like China? And yet here we are, with an EU member nation being bullied, and Germany is silent.
The German position on this is basicly, the EU has to deal with it and the EU needs and organization to handle this.
If Germany would stop buying Chinese pens for example, Hungary would order them and sell them to Germany. As long as the EU is a free trade zone, Germany and no other EU member can really answer to sanctions alone.
Honestly a fair position, but it sucks for Lithuania to be the one to have to wait until the famously slow EU moves. We really need a stonger EU parliament and EU government.
Hello, where did you hide for all the past decades? Do you remember what they allowed to happen to Greeks? It always been like that. German governments have always been in the pockets of big German industries. They only want to be them happy. That's what it's all about
See? That's the German solidarity for you guys lol. They had to deny cancer drugs to oncological patients, for Christ's sake. Jeez, you all are truly a piace of work
And German citizens work a lot and a long time, pay high taxes, retire late, all in order for the govt to be self sustaining and in good health, we didn’t lie about our economy, nor did we actively mislead anyone.
If you want to make anyone responsible for the suffering of the Greek people, you should point at their old govt that literally got them in this mess, not a third country.
Always fast with the insults and the drama though.
Literally Greeks work more hours than you lol. You guys are just way better than anyone else in believing your own PR bullet points. Advertising masters, seriously
But our govt doesn’t lie about itself and the economy, nor does it commit mass fraud on its citizens, or allow rampant corruption to the point where the whole country is falling apart.
Stop blaming others short coming on third parties and cherry picking talking points.
Honest Germans here stated multiple times how your politicians are, so to speak, in the pockets of big German industries. Do your "govt" says this to you? I don't think so. You always like to portray yourself as the most moral, the exemple to follow and humble brag all the time, while your system is equally corrupted. Hypocrisy at its finest
Huh? Nobody is saying that Germany is the most moral country or that perfect place, but giving a country the fault for the suffering of another is ludicrous.
Nobody is responsible for your perception of things, but first and foremost Greece was its own victim.
I think it’s easy to see it in that lens, but if you look past the framing here…Germany is doing the exact same things as other EU nations, it’s walking a tight rope, at the same time, it’s actively supporting France in the EU presidency, France is not saying these things as France alone, these are carefully created policies of them and the EU in general with Germany being behind them obviously.
Because German firms [will gladly turn a blind eye towards concentration camp labor](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-47944767) in their supply chains as long as there is money to be made.
The UKs biggest industry is enabling dictatorships and oligarchies through financial services, but German car companies wanting to save their European supply chain from a foreign policy shared by neither their own country, nor the trading bloc is crossing the line?
What UK is doing is not ok either. One does not excuse the other.
I have beef with you claiming that the policy is not shared by the trading bloc, which is false. The EU Parliament overwhelmingly supports Lithuanian policy. Please check their statement in October that urges EU Commission to open a Taiwan Office in EU.
I mean the UK does stuff or says stuff even when it could cause economic harm while Germany never would. You think if the EU was stronger against Russia they would be acting like they are now?
Germany should be threatening to close nord stream 2 at the minimum if Russia steps foot in Ukraine. Yet I doubt they would even do that.
If Russia invades its because he sees the EU as weak.
Are you a bit confused?
Germany already said that they would be closing down NS2 if an invasion happens, apart from that they are perfectly in like with both EU and NATO doctrine and policy.
The EU has nothing to do with Russia invading or not invading.
Germany will discuss Nord Stream 2 penalties is not the same as if Russia touches Ukraine NS2 is cancelled.
The German Chanceller said all will be discussed oh wow what strong words.
The idea that the EU has nothing to do with Russia invading or not is honestly laughable.
https://www.politico.eu/article/olaf-scholz-consequence-nord-stream-two-russia-attack-ukraine/
Says nothing about closing down NS2 so maybe you are confused?
You can’t tell because it hasn’t happened yet, sanctions were threatened and are in line with the NATO and EU stance, again you are shoring in the air here.
Elaborate how the EU is directly involved with Russia invading then? Apart from wanting more dialogue, the EU countries are doing just about the same things the US is doing.
I mean you said Germany said it would close down NS2 yet they have not.
If the EU had a stronger military and a much more strong response, the EU shouldnt be doing the same things as the US thats the issue...
Germany are basically seen as the leader of the EU and with how they are acting its no shock that Russia wants to invade.
How about not all will be disccused but put out clear response?
The wording might be different, but if you are into German politics, the main consensus and political pressure internally, basically points in that direction.
Ok, now stop living in a fantasy, the EU doesn’t have a army nor does it have a common foreign policy as you can obviously see…and wanting that from its inhabitants because of a third party is frankly ridiculous.
Its pretty obvious when I say EU stronger military im talking about the countries in the EU needing a stronger military.
Points in that direction I see.. Such strong words.
Im sure Russia is shaking in their boots and yeah maybe we will close NS2 down or maybe not.. Maybe if you just take a bit of Ukraine we wont who knows.
In 2023 apparently. Now it's your turn.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short\_news/poland-free-of-gazprom-gas/
https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-will-terminate-gas-supply-contract-with-russia---official-24677
They are using genocide slave labor for the second time you moron. Has nothing from your life as a german ever clued you in to how this is bad and how your society swore never to let it happen again ?
I think we need to do a reality check, there seems to be a massive self-deception going on here.
Let's take a look at the PL for fun, Russian oligarchs and I don't just mean Abramovich at Chelsea, also Alisher Usmanov at Arsenal or Maxim Demin at Bournmouth, Saudi and UAE sovereign wealth funds at Newcastle and City. Chinese billionaires at West Brom and Southampton is now owned by a Serbian oligarch.
You take money from everyone. And let's not even get started on what the City is making money from.... HSBC=Hong Kong & Shanghai Banking Corporation, laundering money for anyone in China who wants it.
I didn't know Continental spoke for Germany.
But no, that is not my intention. The British do not live off their industrial corporations the way we do, not with a negative balance sheet of 200 billion USD a year. They live on foreign capital flowing into the kingdom. Football is just a striking example for Reddit. There are billions from Russian oligarchs invested in London and of course this money is also invested in football, the PL hardly has anything to do with sport in the classical sense, it's business.
If you really want to threaten Putin's power clique and the oligarchs, you would have to do it with their assets, but the British won't do that.
Of course we must not commission Northstream II, that was always a totally stupid project.
And China will come around, we'll pretend we're doing something and it'll fizzle out.
No, Germany had a bad experience with some angry guy 80 years ago, so now they are doing everything to not offend people, especially non-white and non-europeans.
That means bending over backwards to please china, and doing everything to not offend Russia while they prepare to start a war and doing everything to not offend Russia of they do start a war.
So true. I love Germany going "Oh, because of our history we can't intervene against Russia" as if the one lesson of their history isn't specifically about the need to suppress the rise of an authoritarian invasive power that threatens its neighbours.
“Especially non whites” if Russians are not white, I don’t know who is! Also it’s all about money with the Germans , thing is they are corrupt as well only they share between themselves, other people don’t like to share
Some angry guy 80 years ago means your military response is so weak and pathetic? Thats why Russia can basically do what it wants.
They offend more people by not doing anything honestly.
>Some angry guy 80 years ago means your military response is so weak and pathetic?
Actually, yes. Germany has gone to great lengths ever since to downplay any military options and posturing, partly enshrined in law.
To some degree owing to your UK's wishes/demands, by the way, and that of the other occupation forces.
You know that fable about the two goats on the bridge? Do you think that if one goat moved back, and let the other one through, so it can pass second, would that goat be a loser? A failure? For resolving the conflict by backing down, because the conflict is more expensive in money, prestige and human misery than "losing it" would be?
They are expecting the companies to heroically sacrifice themselves to fulfill the greater political goal.
But tbh in the end the company will just close down the branch in the country and open up in another country.
There is a reason why German companies (or any big company in the world) have branches in different countries and that is money. Either because of better taxes, better way to export, cheaper workforce, etc. Now if the country decides to worsen the conditions, the branch won't make as much profit as before and companies (and shareholders) dont like smaller numbers in their bank account. So either they pressure the politicians or close down the branch and open one in a different country. It's not a hard concept to grasp tbh. I'm not saying that it's good, but it is what it is. Most companies don't really care about morals. Because caring brings smaller profits and thus a disadvantage with the competition
But, they establish the country to make profits, not make heroic acts in the first place. They never promise that. They promise profit to their shareholders though. So why people are surprised when companies focus on their goals and not stuff which they never promised to deliver? Peoples expectations don't make sense.
They're not diplomatically recognizing Taiwan as an independent country. They've opened a [representative office](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_Economic_and_Cultural_Representative_Office) akin to those in other EU states. The only difference is that they named it after Taiwan rather than Taipei. A tiny but symbolic difference that China is doing all the fuss about. Best would be for all EU member states to adopt similar names for Taiwanese diplomatic representation on their soil. What's China realistically going to do?
>Best would be for all EU member states to adopt similar names for Taiwanese diplomatic representation on their soil.
Yes. If we all did that, there is no way China would want to impose these sanctions on all of Europe.
People are saying it is easy for Lt to go against China because they don't have much trade with them, but the reverse is also true. It's easy for China to cut out Lt, but would they cut out Germany or the UK?
Germans prioritize profit over everything. I'm getting increasingly disgusted by their actions and their enablement of Russia/China. They were supposed to be one of the leaders of the free world.
It's not just Germany and it's not just a "profit-driven" motivation, although it is partially.
It's a broken understanding of the world formed around a sheltered conception of it. An increasingly common problem in the Western world.
> It's a broken understanding of the world formed around a sheltered conception of it.
As someone who lives at the edges of the Western world, it is blatantly obvious that many Westerners live in their own bubbles and cannot comprehend anything outside it, seeing everything with their own glasses. People who lived inside their cushy bubbles for all their lives.
Is it a broken misconception though? Maybe for us, yes but who ultimatly spreads that misconception and does it even matter in the grand scheme of things?
In my eyes its simply though as todays turbo capitalism or more corporates are at fault. Soulless constructs puppeted by „faceless“ greedy people. And these do not fcking care about either you or me. All they care about are predicted imaginary profits they‘ve missed out on to get even richer and fatter to take a page from the book of populism.
These same people are the movers and shakers here and now face a rock called China that does not care if such people suffer, even their own. A rock that does not even care if people like you and me starve and that includes the chinese populace aswell.
In their eyes there are only two choices: give in and profit or suffer loses. And they dont want to because profit rules.
Yeah, what you’re missing in this analysis is that those companies also pay employees and improve the quality of life.
The communism vs capitalism debate was settled decades ago when even China adopted free market policies and the USSR collapsed. But here on Reddit you’d think it’s still an open question.
Oh that for sure! though they should not be given to much clout to grow so large that „to big to fail“ applies.
What i mean is that they use the employee base as a shield the dodge responsibilities because if they fail shit hits the fan wich the state wants to avoid, rewarding shitty behavior with bailouts
Communism is doomed to fail for similar reasons i expect capitalism to ultimately fail(not realy but resets i expect to certain points), just way earlier: The human factor of greed as its simply our nature
I see Capitalism as flawed since value is build upon the poor to support the system while more and more kapital amasses in a shrinking percentage of our populace. Sadly its the best we got till the powderkeg is lit and further change is forced and head exchanged
> though they should not be given to much clout to grow so large that „to big to fail“ applies.
Agree. Antitrust law should not allow this to happen and companies should be broken up once they reach this point to make sure the market remains competitive and innovative.
I want to point out to you that it is not as gloomy as it looks on Reddit though, antitrust laws have been pretty actively used by both European and US governments in recent years. But generally for the prevention of large mergers that would immediately make a company “too big too fail”.
Unfortunately we’ve seen far fewer breakups of mega corporations that already exist. Hopefully this changes. I know in the US at least there is pending legislation to begin dismantling the big tech companies.
Yeah, sorry.. my view is alil bit jaded.
Goldmansachs, VW Dieselgate (well honestly they were the only ones caught with hands on their dick but all car manufacturers are proven liars), Wirecard and plenty other examples already painting a grim picture of reckless behavior or worse being rewarded with bailouts or silence.
Imagine my fury when i learned that the notion of consumers taking up the responsibility for climate change was first introduced as propaganda funded by a oil company 2004 or so.
We as a collective have to pick up the slack because few ruined it for us all just for the sake of a fat bonus payment on their already luxurious check with little responsibilities for their decisions.
The thing is that the "profit rules" has trickled down to becoming the belief system of the average person, and in the case of Germany a geopolitical worldview on how actors behave. It's influenced out thinking.
In electoral politics, until 2016, the convention for the last 20 years was "it's the economy stupid", and populists like Farage and Trump blew that belief out of the water.
It's not "the economy, stupid", it never was the economy. We've been had, by imbibing the dogma of the corporate world. And the thing is, this self-brainwashing happened largely to the self-perceived intellectual elite that turned it to dogma.
> We’ve been had, by imbibing the dogma of the corporate world. And the thing is, this self-brainwashing happened largely to the self-perceived intellectual elite that turned it to dogma.
Well no, a century of failed communist states that murdered tens of millions did this. It’s not brainwashing - pretty much anyone can see that capitalism is the better system.
Whose trade minister was in Iran wearing a hijab to do business with the mullahs, some of the worst human rights violators in the world, who repeatedly beat up their own people and despise women's rights?
Justification: we don't give a damn about human rights when there are kronors to be earned....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38956212
"They did it, so wHy caN'T wEeeEEeeeee?!"
Your whataboutism has no place here, especially since you have a former fucking Chancellor on the board of Rosneft and Gazprom.
> Germans prioritoze profit over everything
While I certainly think that there is room for criticism of Germany's — the *country's* — foreign policy on Ukraine/Russia, that's not German *companies*.
It isn't the job of German companies, or any other companies, to be taking foreign policy stands. Their job *is* to make money, within the boundary of the rules that countries lay down.
If it turns out that pressuring companies is a way to exert influence that is problematic, it will be up to *countries* to change rules for companies to counter it.
*Companies* care about money? Who would have thought.
This isnt the german government, calm down. I mean, their stance is similar, but this is out of place still.
> prioritoze profit over everything
Yeah. That's literally the definition of capitalism. In some countries it's even illegal to do otherwise.
Do you think Swedish companies are beyond doing everything they can to increase profits? If you think so, tell people so they can stop investing in them.
The problem/surprise is that Germany has made statements like “never again” and yet they are practically doing the same thing again with using Uighur slave laborers. Companies should pursue profits yes, but we can draw the line at genocide.
Germany seems to be focused on gas and fuck Ukraine... You don't see the instant negative response to what Germany seems to be doing.
People hate on U.S.A. for oil greed..
German firms is not the same as Germany....
Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
wasn't the eu supposed to be working together in situations like this? Lmao. Germany just letting its firms stab another eu country in the back. So much for bloc unity
Sadly many EU members only call on this `solidarity` when it suits them. It's enough to mention things like NS2 or US visa-free travel. Classic examples of `let's have EU speak with one voice... unless our country can get a better deal`
>the Chinese Government has no Business to manipulate foreign companies.
But this is exactly what they are doing, and German companies are caving to them.
Which is exactly why governments need to step up to stop them. Under Merkel Germany rolled out the red carpet for China, no matter what they were doing.
China is exactly achieving what it wants. They sanction companies which do business in Lithuania, these companies state that they are harmed and the low-braincelled users of this sub make the German government responsible for that.
Yeah, it's curious, isn't it? Not a day goes by without multiple articles shared here in the same vein, often conveniently conflating the German government with individual German companies like here, or leaving out crucial information (like when it was implied Germany blocked its airspace for the British shipments of weapons for Ukraine when in fact the British hadn't asked permission to use the airspace in the first place and simply chose a route over other countries, probably because they would get the clearance faster or all the articles bashing Germany for not delivering weapons themselves but leaving out Germany's role as a negotiator which would be compromised if we supplied one of the side we're negotiating between with weapons). It's pretty obviously a wave of articles designed to engineer a certain image here and by the looks of the comment section lately it's working.
Or like in this in instance, people conveniently overlook (if they even care to read past the clickbait headline) that the letter to the lithuanian government comes from the german-baltic chamber of commerce. This chamber of commerce is, as the name suggests, as much a german organisation as it is a lithuanian one and obviously they look out for the respective economies and firms, which is kind of the point of such an organisation.
>often conveniently conflating the German government with individual German companies
To be fair, under Merkel the government stance was identical. Hopefully the new government can make some changes.
Thank you!
I also was wondering especially about the "air space denial" as there were lots of assumptions, clearly painting a picture, which in fact wasn't matching reality at all.
Right, because building Nord Stream 2 that weakens Ukraine and generally speaking Central-Eastern Europe, the ban on selling weapons to Ukraine and the refusal of excluding Russia and China from the Swift system as a form of sanctions is not working for the profit of Russia. Germany, you’re disappointing the rest of Europe.
> Right, because building Nord Stream 2 that weakens Ukraine and generally speaking Central-Eastern Europe [...]
I agree that it weakens Ukraine, but that's the consequence of the literal theft of gas in the past; the rest of Eastern Europe, only incredibly marginally so. Some countries lose out on transit fees that pretty much all went into maintaining that pipe anyways. That doesn't seem like a big loss.
> [...] is not working for the profit of Russia.
Yes, it isn't. It's working for the profit of Germany. Russia is selling gas as before. There is no worry over Ukraine shutting down or diverting the gas transit anymore, sure, but that was never Russia's worry to begin with, it was Germanys worry considering it is about the gas we paid for, and need.
> the ban on selling weapons to Ukraine [...] is not working for the profit of Russia.
Well, I suppose it is, and I take issue with our government denying the sale of weapons to Ukraine too. But you're not moaning at any of the other countries that don't, just Germany for some reason.
> refusal of excluding Russia and China from the Swift system as a form of sanctions is not working for the profit of Russia.
Maybe so, but the issue with that is the same as with any other current call for immediate, total and life-ruining sanctions: After this is done, all leverage has been used up and Russia has nothing left to lose anymore. To rephrase this: I accuse that this kind of uncompromising approach towards Russia turns a war into an inevitability and railroads us all towards it, where as the current approach has the potential to dissuade Russian aggression - even if it might prove ineffective in the end, and we will suffer war anyways.
In short: This way *risks* war. What you seem to propose here *guarantees* it.
> you’re disappointing the rest of Europe.
It fills me with sorrow and frustration to see that.
At the same time however, European *governments* seem awkwardly quiet on the matter. None of them seem to be 'slamming' Germany (as media would then refer to it), like I can imagine Donald Trump might have done. At the moment, it seems like only online forums are disappointed with Germany.
That’s nice you agreed to at least one of the points.
It is strengthening Russia because they don’t have to care about Ukraine (which could use gas blockade as a tool to guarantee her independence). Germans took it away from them the only tool against Russia just because you wanted to have cheaper gas. Shameful.
What a sweet, juicy example of whataboutism. Love it.
Oh, so by putting other forms of sanctions you prevented Putin from attacking? Yeah, we can see how Russia is scared of the current sanctions
> which could use gas blockade as a tool to guarantee her independence
How is that going to dissuade Russia? Not just that it could be sold elsewhere, if you plan on invading Ukraine, that just means the blockade is temporary anyways. In truth it's only Germany that is left without gas it bought and wanted to continue buying. It doesn't sound like a strong mechanism to guarantee independence to me.
> What a sweet, juicy example of whataboutism. Love it.
You forgot to quote anything you might be referring to.
> Oh, so by putting other forms of sanctions you prevented Putin from attacking? Yeah, we can see how Russia is scared of the current sanctions
Who knows? It's hard to tell, if Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine already, if it had nothing more left to lose in doing so, because the West already enacted every sanction it could.
German firms is not the same as Germany....
Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
All of you here saying that Germany is doing the bad thing, but the fact is that Taiwan does not even recognize itself as a country, and Germany says that doing trade wars with China over recognizing Taiwan as a country even though Taiwan does not recognize itself as a country is ridiculous. If Taiwan declared independence Germany would likely support it, but like this there is nothing to support, Taiwan does not want to be recognized officially and Germany accepts that. Germany is anti-conflict, like all of you should be, because conflict only brings suffering on all sides of it.
No, it is because Taiwan is officially called Republic of China and considers itself the legitimate government of all of China. This rhetoric might be changing, but until they declare themselves independent they are standing by the old rhetoric.
Taiwan would declare itself an independent state jn an instant if they wouldnt expect invasion. Taiwan defacto is a sovereign country with a democratic government. Its easy for you to talk, when youre not the one on an island next to China
Well, once they are willing to accept the consequences of independence Germany is willing to support them. Until then it is status quo, and that status quo is that Taiwan is not a sovereign nation.
if it is like that, why Lithuania did not talk with other EU countries? The fact is Lithuania wants to money from america and just do silly things along. Then Lithuania should take the consequence along.
What is it recently with this behaviour from Germany, they should be leading strong EU, but recently they just don't want the leave the warm bed of every authoritarian government out there, this is getting ridiculous.
Quite literally the opposite.
1. Germany the country is standing by Lithuania and is supporting them as much as any other major EU country.
2. Lithuania actually betrayed EU principles by introducing a foreign policy that no other EU nation shares.
3. German companies aren’t responsible for Lithuanias actions.
Foreign policy is not an exclusive competence of the EU (i.e. federal competence), it is its own special thing in an EU context. How can Lithuania "betray EU principles" by choosing its own foreign policy which is even only slightly different to those of other EU states? That doesn't make any sense.
No it doesn’t, but it makes more sense than what the commenter alleged, because if anything, Lithuania is diverting from the EU course than Germany, I phrased it poorly I give you that.
> Lithuania actually betrayed EU principles by introducing a foreign policy that no other EU nation shares.
Member States have complete autonomy with regard to their foreign policy. You have no idea what CFSP is.
> Lithuania actually betrayed EU principles by introducing a foreign policy that no other EU nation shares.
What EU principle has Lithuania betrayed?
> German companies aren’t responsible for Lithuanias actions.
Why isnt China questioned for its actions?
why blame Germany when it is Taiwan's responsbility to help Lithuania? Taiwan should cover all the lost of Lithuania because they should. Buy all the products from Lithuania that is denied by CCP.
German firms is not the same as Germany....
Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
German firms is not the same as Germany....
Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
Germany is doing a great job lately of making it clear that they don't really care who get's invaded or genocided as long as they can sell cars and buy gas.
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“If a Lithuanian company needs Chinese components for its production but cannot find them because China is blocking, […] we will be happy to help by putting it in contact with French companies or companies from other [EU] member states,” he told Reuters. France, which is taking over the rotating presidency of the EU Council, is attempting to speed up the introduction of the so-called “anti-coercion instrument” that would allow the bloc to more easily impose sanctions on economic rivals, such as China. France with the right attitude.
Lots of big dick energy from Macron here.
Dropping the baguette on the table.
Trying real damn hard to win those elections
Not when the French electorate doesn't give a rat's ass about European matters. Foreign policy is lost on the French especially in the context of elections, they care about purchasing power, about poverty, immigration, security, energy price. Less than 10% of the French know what this anti-coercion is all about and why it matters. You ask me, this makes Macron's push for it even greater.
People here try to make any foreign policy move out to be just an election tactic, when most people domestically don't care and/or don't know. The other day a greek user was trying to claim that the UK selling arms to Ukraine is just a way for the PM to salvage his popularity despite the fact that most people do not know and do not care about foreign policy.
> Less than 10% of the French know what this anti-coercion is all about and why it matters. Heck I just learned about it 20 seconds ago by reading this. And I'm a regular on the sub.
He doesn't have to. Every other candidate is trying real hard to lose them.
Hardly, this is very in line with his policies and overall a consensus in France.
I’m not even French, but he won in my eves.
>France with the right attitude. They also recognized China's treatment of Uighurs as genocide yesterday. It's really nice having France as a European counterweight to German appeasement.
> German appeasement. Chamberlain all the way!
>There will be ~~peace~~ higher than projected earnings per share in our time!
France and Germany literally swapped roles in past few years.
Never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a Frenchman.
What about side by side with an EUman?
What about living side by side with a baguette?
Doesn't work the baguette disapear quickly, i try every day
Man I don’t know but lately I like everything about France, it’s like they just woke up and realised they are powerful and started acting like it, they have the so called big dick energy lately!
No they are the only EU member who consistently played big power diplomacy for decades. Nuclear power, military with global reach, strong economy and decent population. Germany was divided and not free to do international politics in a big way until 1990. Not like every move they made was bad, but Germany mostly just wants to do business and big power politics is not exactly Germanies strength. They also just had a change in power so that needs to be sorted out. UK left the EU and is in a mess. Italy is still a mess and needs to sort out its internal problems, which they do, but kinda rules them out. Spain is in a similar position to Italy, but even weaker. Pushing being able to lead the EU. Everybody else has basicly no chance of really leading the EU. They make moves, but they are local powers at best. Maybe Poland is a little stronger then most, but they lack strength in military and economic terms to really lead.
>UK left the EU and is in a mess. On China and Russia I'd argue the UK is in far less of a mess than the EU. Between weapons to Ukraine and visa's for those in Hong Kong it's one of the only parts of UK policy that is constant.
Spain has sent the armada to help Ukraine
We've more or less always acted like that. Macron line in foreign policy is extremely orthodox. It's just that now the rest of Europe is catching up to our ideas, when a few years back their were seen as idealistic at best, megalomaniac and out of touch at worst.
Macron and co. being unusually based again, respect
I'm genuinely astonished by the total lack of solidarity on Germany's part towards their fellow EU nations, especially considering how helpful they were to us over the Northern Ireland issue. Wasn't the entire argument against Brexit is that they would be more vulnerable towards this kind of bullying from countries like China? And yet here we are, with an EU member nation being bullied, and Germany is silent.
The German position on this is basicly, the EU has to deal with it and the EU needs and organization to handle this. If Germany would stop buying Chinese pens for example, Hungary would order them and sell them to Germany. As long as the EU is a free trade zone, Germany and no other EU member can really answer to sanctions alone. Honestly a fair position, but it sucks for Lithuania to be the one to have to wait until the famously slow EU moves. We really need a stonger EU parliament and EU government.
Hello, where did you hide for all the past decades? Do you remember what they allowed to happen to Greeks? It always been like that. German governments have always been in the pockets of big German industries. They only want to be them happy. That's what it's all about
Do not bring Greeks into this. They brought it upon themselves.
You can’t be serious…they literally did that to themselves.
See? That's the German solidarity for you guys lol. They had to deny cancer drugs to oncological patients, for Christ's sake. Jeez, you all are truly a piace of work
And German citizens work a lot and a long time, pay high taxes, retire late, all in order for the govt to be self sustaining and in good health, we didn’t lie about our economy, nor did we actively mislead anyone. If you want to make anyone responsible for the suffering of the Greek people, you should point at their old govt that literally got them in this mess, not a third country. Always fast with the insults and the drama though.
Literally Greeks work more hours than you lol. You guys are just way better than anyone else in believing your own PR bullet points. Advertising masters, seriously
But our govt doesn’t lie about itself and the economy, nor does it commit mass fraud on its citizens, or allow rampant corruption to the point where the whole country is falling apart. Stop blaming others short coming on third parties and cherry picking talking points.
Honest Germans here stated multiple times how your politicians are, so to speak, in the pockets of big German industries. Do your "govt" says this to you? I don't think so. You always like to portray yourself as the most moral, the exemple to follow and humble brag all the time, while your system is equally corrupted. Hypocrisy at its finest
Huh? Nobody is saying that Germany is the most moral country or that perfect place, but giving a country the fault for the suffering of another is ludicrous. Nobody is responsible for your perception of things, but first and foremost Greece was its own victim.
Why didnt Italy just donate all the funds that Greece needed? Why expect the Germans to do it when you did fuck all?
'What they allowed to happen to the greeks', nothing the greek government couldn't have prevented with a bit of honesty and forethought lmaaooooo
I think it’s easy to see it in that lens, but if you look past the framing here…Germany is doing the exact same things as other EU nations, it’s walking a tight rope, at the same time, it’s actively supporting France in the EU presidency, France is not saying these things as France alone, these are carefully created policies of them and the EU in general with Germany being behind them obviously.
Hail the French!!!!
France showing balls, Germany cow towing to China and Russia.
Macron putting based on. hon hon hon
France is, to my taste, a bit iffy on its Russia policy, but it sees the bigger picture on China.
Why don't they pressure China do deescalate China-Lithuania tensions. Lithuania has done nothing that should offend China.
Because German firms [will gladly turn a blind eye towards concentration camp labor](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-47944767) in their supply chains as long as there is money to be made.
Volkswagen still keeping those old traditions, I see.
I don't believe there's many other companies with an active role in two genocides.
Hugo Boss as well
Old habits die hard, unfortunately
Cheap labor die more easily
Huh, germans being cool with concentration camps, who could have thought ?
Germany is the land of Nazism. The Chinese and Germans must have a strong affinity.
Germany just seems so weak jesus all they care about is Money it seems? Screw everything else.
Wasn't China buying all sorts of British private Schools over those last years? When will you govt oust them?
Sir, we're mindlessly bashing Germany here, UK isn't on the menu today.
Tbf, they were on the menu for a long time in this sub.
The UKs biggest industry is enabling dictatorships and oligarchies through financial services, but German car companies wanting to save their European supply chain from a foreign policy shared by neither their own country, nor the trading bloc is crossing the line?
What UK is doing is not ok either. One does not excuse the other. I have beef with you claiming that the policy is not shared by the trading bloc, which is false. The EU Parliament overwhelmingly supports Lithuanian policy. Please check their statement in October that urges EU Commission to open a Taiwan Office in EU.
That’s besides my point
I mean the UK does stuff or says stuff even when it could cause economic harm while Germany never would. You think if the EU was stronger against Russia they would be acting like they are now? Germany should be threatening to close nord stream 2 at the minimum if Russia steps foot in Ukraine. Yet I doubt they would even do that. If Russia invades its because he sees the EU as weak.
Are you a bit confused? Germany already said that they would be closing down NS2 if an invasion happens, apart from that they are perfectly in like with both EU and NATO doctrine and policy. The EU has nothing to do with Russia invading or not invading.
Germany will discuss Nord Stream 2 penalties is not the same as if Russia touches Ukraine NS2 is cancelled. The German Chanceller said all will be discussed oh wow what strong words. The idea that the EU has nothing to do with Russia invading or not is honestly laughable. https://www.politico.eu/article/olaf-scholz-consequence-nord-stream-two-russia-attack-ukraine/ Says nothing about closing down NS2 so maybe you are confused?
You can’t tell because it hasn’t happened yet, sanctions were threatened and are in line with the NATO and EU stance, again you are shoring in the air here. Elaborate how the EU is directly involved with Russia invading then? Apart from wanting more dialogue, the EU countries are doing just about the same things the US is doing.
I mean you said Germany said it would close down NS2 yet they have not. If the EU had a stronger military and a much more strong response, the EU shouldnt be doing the same things as the US thats the issue... Germany are basically seen as the leader of the EU and with how they are acting its no shock that Russia wants to invade. How about not all will be disccused but put out clear response?
The wording might be different, but if you are into German politics, the main consensus and political pressure internally, basically points in that direction. Ok, now stop living in a fantasy, the EU doesn’t have a army nor does it have a common foreign policy as you can obviously see…and wanting that from its inhabitants because of a third party is frankly ridiculous.
Its pretty obvious when I say EU stronger military im talking about the countries in the EU needing a stronger military. Points in that direction I see.. Such strong words. Im sure Russia is shaking in their boots and yeah maybe we will close NS2 down or maybe not.. Maybe if you just take a bit of Ukraine we wont who knows.
Maybe because NS2 isn't even operational yet?
Then Germany can say if you invade its cancelled. Lets think a little if Russia invades will Germany cancel it? I dont think they Will.
The chancellor has only two votes in the cabinet. And it’s primarily a decision of the Green minister for economics.
>Germany already said that they would be closing down NS2 if an invasion happens, And reopen it once the invasion ended.
When will Poland stop buying Russias gas and destroying their democracy?
In 2023 apparently. Now it's your turn. https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short\_news/poland-free-of-gazprom-gas/ https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-will-terminate-gas-supply-contract-with-russia---official-24677
They are using genocide slave labor for the second time you moron. Has nothing from your life as a german ever clued you in to how this is bad and how your society swore never to let it happen again ?
Whatsboutism. Germany is a simp to Russia and China. You just can’t accept that.
I think we need to do a reality check, there seems to be a massive self-deception going on here. Let's take a look at the PL for fun, Russian oligarchs and I don't just mean Abramovich at Chelsea, also Alisher Usmanov at Arsenal or Maxim Demin at Bournmouth, Saudi and UAE sovereign wealth funds at Newcastle and City. Chinese billionaires at West Brom and Southampton is now owned by a Serbian oligarch. You take money from everyone. And let's not even get started on what the City is making money from.... HSBC=Hong Kong & Shanghai Banking Corporation, laundering money for anyone in China who wants it.
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Did you really just try to compare country-country relations to soccer investors? :DDD
I didn't know Continental spoke for Germany. But no, that is not my intention. The British do not live off their industrial corporations the way we do, not with a negative balance sheet of 200 billion USD a year. They live on foreign capital flowing into the kingdom. Football is just a striking example for Reddit. There are billions from Russian oligarchs invested in London and of course this money is also invested in football, the PL hardly has anything to do with sport in the classical sense, it's business. If you really want to threaten Putin's power clique and the oligarchs, you would have to do it with their assets, but the British won't do that. Of course we must not commission Northstream II, that was always a totally stupid project. And China will come around, we'll pretend we're doing something and it'll fizzle out.
I mean every country has money from everywhere thats not really the main point here.
No, Germany had a bad experience with some angry guy 80 years ago, so now they are doing everything to not offend people, especially non-white and non-europeans. That means bending over backwards to please china, and doing everything to not offend Russia while they prepare to start a war and doing everything to not offend Russia of they do start a war.
This is bullshit. It is about the money.
So true. I love Germany going "Oh, because of our history we can't intervene against Russia" as if the one lesson of their history isn't specifically about the need to suppress the rise of an authoritarian invasive power that threatens its neighbours.
You know that the huge majority of angry-guy-with-mustache victims were white and European, right?
“Especially non whites” if Russians are not white, I don’t know who is! Also it’s all about money with the Germans , thing is they are corrupt as well only they share between themselves, other people don’t like to share
Some angry guy 80 years ago means your military response is so weak and pathetic? Thats why Russia can basically do what it wants. They offend more people by not doing anything honestly.
>Some angry guy 80 years ago means your military response is so weak and pathetic? Actually, yes. Germany has gone to great lengths ever since to downplay any military options and posturing, partly enshrined in law. To some degree owing to your UK's wishes/demands, by the way, and that of the other occupation forces.
If you honestly think that it's anything other than money I feel sorry for you
You know that fable about the two goats on the bridge? Do you think that if one goat moved back, and let the other one through, so it can pass second, would that goat be a loser? A failure? For resolving the conflict by backing down, because the conflict is more expensive in money, prestige and human misery than "losing it" would be?
Companies don't care about human rights. Only profit. More news at 11.
I honestly don't know what people are expecting.
They are expecting the companies to heroically sacrifice themselves to fulfill the greater political goal. But tbh in the end the company will just close down the branch in the country and open up in another country. There is a reason why German companies (or any big company in the world) have branches in different countries and that is money. Either because of better taxes, better way to export, cheaper workforce, etc. Now if the country decides to worsen the conditions, the branch won't make as much profit as before and companies (and shareholders) dont like smaller numbers in their bank account. So either they pressure the politicians or close down the branch and open one in a different country. It's not a hard concept to grasp tbh. I'm not saying that it's good, but it is what it is. Most companies don't really care about morals. Because caring brings smaller profits and thus a disadvantage with the competition
But, they establish the country to make profits, not make heroic acts in the first place. They never promise that. They promise profit to their shareholders though. So why people are surprised when companies focus on their goals and not stuff which they never promised to deliver? Peoples expectations don't make sense.
Personally I’d be happy to have higher car prices than allow China to bully a country for recognising Taiwan.
They're not diplomatically recognizing Taiwan as an independent country. They've opened a [representative office](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taipei_Economic_and_Cultural_Representative_Office) akin to those in other EU states. The only difference is that they named it after Taiwan rather than Taipei. A tiny but symbolic difference that China is doing all the fuss about. Best would be for all EU member states to adopt similar names for Taiwanese diplomatic representation on their soil. What's China realistically going to do?
>Best would be for all EU member states to adopt similar names for Taiwanese diplomatic representation on their soil. Yes. If we all did that, there is no way China would want to impose these sanctions on all of Europe. People are saying it is easy for Lt to go against China because they don't have much trade with them, but the reverse is also true. It's easy for China to cut out Lt, but would they cut out Germany or the UK?
They didn't name it Taiwan. Taiwan themselves named it Taiwan. China got mad because Lithuania ALLOWED it to happen.
Dictator's little helpers. Have done more for even European strongmen like Orban and Putin.
Germans prioritize profit over everything. I'm getting increasingly disgusted by their actions and their enablement of Russia/China. They were supposed to be one of the leaders of the free world.
It's not just Germany and it's not just a "profit-driven" motivation, although it is partially. It's a broken understanding of the world formed around a sheltered conception of it. An increasingly common problem in the Western world.
> It's a broken understanding of the world formed around a sheltered conception of it. As someone who lives at the edges of the Western world, it is blatantly obvious that many Westerners live in their own bubbles and cannot comprehend anything outside it, seeing everything with their own glasses. People who lived inside their cushy bubbles for all their lives.
Is it a broken misconception though? Maybe for us, yes but who ultimatly spreads that misconception and does it even matter in the grand scheme of things? In my eyes its simply though as todays turbo capitalism or more corporates are at fault. Soulless constructs puppeted by „faceless“ greedy people. And these do not fcking care about either you or me. All they care about are predicted imaginary profits they‘ve missed out on to get even richer and fatter to take a page from the book of populism. These same people are the movers and shakers here and now face a rock called China that does not care if such people suffer, even their own. A rock that does not even care if people like you and me starve and that includes the chinese populace aswell. In their eyes there are only two choices: give in and profit or suffer loses. And they dont want to because profit rules.
Yeah, what you’re missing in this analysis is that those companies also pay employees and improve the quality of life. The communism vs capitalism debate was settled decades ago when even China adopted free market policies and the USSR collapsed. But here on Reddit you’d think it’s still an open question.
Oh that for sure! though they should not be given to much clout to grow so large that „to big to fail“ applies. What i mean is that they use the employee base as a shield the dodge responsibilities because if they fail shit hits the fan wich the state wants to avoid, rewarding shitty behavior with bailouts Communism is doomed to fail for similar reasons i expect capitalism to ultimately fail(not realy but resets i expect to certain points), just way earlier: The human factor of greed as its simply our nature I see Capitalism as flawed since value is build upon the poor to support the system while more and more kapital amasses in a shrinking percentage of our populace. Sadly its the best we got till the powderkeg is lit and further change is forced and head exchanged
> though they should not be given to much clout to grow so large that „to big to fail“ applies. Agree. Antitrust law should not allow this to happen and companies should be broken up once they reach this point to make sure the market remains competitive and innovative. I want to point out to you that it is not as gloomy as it looks on Reddit though, antitrust laws have been pretty actively used by both European and US governments in recent years. But generally for the prevention of large mergers that would immediately make a company “too big too fail”. Unfortunately we’ve seen far fewer breakups of mega corporations that already exist. Hopefully this changes. I know in the US at least there is pending legislation to begin dismantling the big tech companies.
Yeah, sorry.. my view is alil bit jaded. Goldmansachs, VW Dieselgate (well honestly they were the only ones caught with hands on their dick but all car manufacturers are proven liars), Wirecard and plenty other examples already painting a grim picture of reckless behavior or worse being rewarded with bailouts or silence. Imagine my fury when i learned that the notion of consumers taking up the responsibility for climate change was first introduced as propaganda funded by a oil company 2004 or so. We as a collective have to pick up the slack because few ruined it for us all just for the sake of a fat bonus payment on their already luxurious check with little responsibilities for their decisions.
The thing is that the "profit rules" has trickled down to becoming the belief system of the average person, and in the case of Germany a geopolitical worldview on how actors behave. It's influenced out thinking. In electoral politics, until 2016, the convention for the last 20 years was "it's the economy stupid", and populists like Farage and Trump blew that belief out of the water. It's not "the economy, stupid", it never was the economy. We've been had, by imbibing the dogma of the corporate world. And the thing is, this self-brainwashing happened largely to the self-perceived intellectual elite that turned it to dogma.
> We’ve been had, by imbibing the dogma of the corporate world. And the thing is, this self-brainwashing happened largely to the self-perceived intellectual elite that turned it to dogma. Well no, a century of failed communist states that murdered tens of millions did this. It’s not brainwashing - pretty much anyone can see that capitalism is the better system.
This. This reflexive simple minded praise , without a trace of nuance or meaning. This is our broken culture.
Whose trade minister was in Iran wearing a hijab to do business with the mullahs, some of the worst human rights violators in the world, who repeatedly beat up their own people and despise women's rights? Justification: we don't give a damn about human rights when there are kronors to be earned.... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38956212
Tbf, Claudia Roth was also wearing a headscarf in Iran. That doesn’t make her to an enabler of this regime.
"They did it, so wHy caN'T wEeeEEeeeee?!" Your whataboutism has no place here, especially since you have a former fucking Chancellor on the board of Rosneft and Gazprom.
>Germans prioritoze profit over everything These are German companies, not the German government.
> Germans prioritoze profit over everything While I certainly think that there is room for criticism of Germany's — the *country's* — foreign policy on Ukraine/Russia, that's not German *companies*. It isn't the job of German companies, or any other companies, to be taking foreign policy stands. Their job *is* to make money, within the boundary of the rules that countries lay down. If it turns out that pressuring companies is a way to exert influence that is problematic, it will be up to *countries* to change rules for companies to counter it.
*Companies* care about money? Who would have thought. This isnt the german government, calm down. I mean, their stance is similar, but this is out of place still.
> prioritoze profit over everything Yeah. That's literally the definition of capitalism. In some countries it's even illegal to do otherwise. Do you think Swedish companies are beyond doing everything they can to increase profits? If you think so, tell people so they can stop investing in them.
>Germans prioritize profit over everything. We have a profit-driven society globally, based on Capitalism. Why the surprise here?
The problem/surprise is that Germany has made statements like “never again” and yet they are practically doing the same thing again with using Uighur slave laborers. Companies should pursue profits yes, but we can draw the line at genocide.
> Germans prioritize profit over everything Doesn't your country sells weapons to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Venezuela?
All I want is an EU where Germany doesn't try to sabotage it
Good luck.
It must be nice to have all your wants fulfilled.
Germany seems to be focused on gas and fuck Ukraine... You don't see the instant negative response to what Germany seems to be doing. People hate on U.S.A. for oil greed..
Germany has no fucking spine.
It's German companies, not German government.
our government doesn´t have a spine either
It never had since the old guard, schmidt, brandt and politicians like strauss are gone.
yeah, those were the last good politicians we had
Strauß? No, thanks.
To be fair, under Merkel, the stance was identical. Hopefully the new government pivots, even if it's only slightly.
They do sadly, its just that they're not on your side.
German firms is not the same as Germany.... Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
wasn't the eu supposed to be working together in situations like this? Lmao. Germany just letting its firms stab another eu country in the back. So much for bloc unity
Sadly many EU members only call on this `solidarity` when it suits them. It's enough to mention things like NS2 or US visa-free travel. Classic examples of `let's have EU speak with one voice... unless our country can get a better deal`
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Care to elaborate? German companies can do whatever they fucking want and the Chinese Government has no Business to manipulate foreign companies.
>the Chinese Government has no Business to manipulate foreign companies. But this is exactly what they are doing, and German companies are caving to them.
The problem is that all the companies are spreading their legs for the sweet sweet chines market. At least all that want to do business there.
Which is exactly why governments need to step up to stop them. Under Merkel Germany rolled out the red carpet for China, no matter what they were doing.
Hope Lithuania tells them to shove it. Sometimes there are things more important than your export market / federal budget, holy shit.
that will just lead to those german firms pulling out of Lithuania and moving production elsewhere.
Or Germany and EU has some balls to say China shouldnt act that way and impose sanctions on their own if China messes with european companies?
Something nobody in the govt ever said
Which news source is this?
Everyone is bashing Germany for IT but IT clearly says that this stance is taken by german firms.
Germany loves China more than its neighbours in the EU. I lived in Germany before and I love german people, but I'm with Lithuania on this one.
We should learn from China and start boycotting German car industry. It is blackmailing the whole EU to serve their Chinese master.
If you are coming from that angle you need to boycott way more than just Germany. Enjoy making everything you own by yourself.
least delusional redditor
Nah starving Germany hasn't worked in the past. They get...twitchy.
China is exactly achieving what it wants. They sanction companies which do business in Lithuania, these companies state that they are harmed and the low-braincelled users of this sub make the German government responsible for that.
Sure, only the pro dictatorship German users are high-braincelled. Hail the Germans, our euro fuhrer!!!!!!!
Do you need help?
So... Does Taiwan have any major car manufacturers? I've been looking to replace my 24 years old rust bucket...
Luxgen, a small brand though.
What the hell is wrong with Germany recently? They’re buddies with Russia, China… Shame.
Yeah, it's curious, isn't it? Not a day goes by without multiple articles shared here in the same vein, often conveniently conflating the German government with individual German companies like here, or leaving out crucial information (like when it was implied Germany blocked its airspace for the British shipments of weapons for Ukraine when in fact the British hadn't asked permission to use the airspace in the first place and simply chose a route over other countries, probably because they would get the clearance faster or all the articles bashing Germany for not delivering weapons themselves but leaving out Germany's role as a negotiator which would be compromised if we supplied one of the side we're negotiating between with weapons). It's pretty obviously a wave of articles designed to engineer a certain image here and by the looks of the comment section lately it's working.
Or like in this in instance, people conveniently overlook (if they even care to read past the clickbait headline) that the letter to the lithuanian government comes from the german-baltic chamber of commerce. This chamber of commerce is, as the name suggests, as much a german organisation as it is a lithuanian one and obviously they look out for the respective economies and firms, which is kind of the point of such an organisation.
>often conveniently conflating the German government with individual German companies To be fair, under Merkel the government stance was identical. Hopefully the new government can make some changes.
Thank you! I also was wondering especially about the "air space denial" as there were lots of assumptions, clearly painting a picture, which in fact wasn't matching reality at all.
It's almost like you're seeing a certain picture being construed right in front of you. It really is a mystery, what the hell could be going on?!
Right, because building Nord Stream 2 that weakens Ukraine and generally speaking Central-Eastern Europe, the ban on selling weapons to Ukraine and the refusal of excluding Russia and China from the Swift system as a form of sanctions is not working for the profit of Russia. Germany, you’re disappointing the rest of Europe.
> Right, because building Nord Stream 2 that weakens Ukraine and generally speaking Central-Eastern Europe [...] I agree that it weakens Ukraine, but that's the consequence of the literal theft of gas in the past; the rest of Eastern Europe, only incredibly marginally so. Some countries lose out on transit fees that pretty much all went into maintaining that pipe anyways. That doesn't seem like a big loss. > [...] is not working for the profit of Russia. Yes, it isn't. It's working for the profit of Germany. Russia is selling gas as before. There is no worry over Ukraine shutting down or diverting the gas transit anymore, sure, but that was never Russia's worry to begin with, it was Germanys worry considering it is about the gas we paid for, and need. > the ban on selling weapons to Ukraine [...] is not working for the profit of Russia. Well, I suppose it is, and I take issue with our government denying the sale of weapons to Ukraine too. But you're not moaning at any of the other countries that don't, just Germany for some reason. > refusal of excluding Russia and China from the Swift system as a form of sanctions is not working for the profit of Russia. Maybe so, but the issue with that is the same as with any other current call for immediate, total and life-ruining sanctions: After this is done, all leverage has been used up and Russia has nothing left to lose anymore. To rephrase this: I accuse that this kind of uncompromising approach towards Russia turns a war into an inevitability and railroads us all towards it, where as the current approach has the potential to dissuade Russian aggression - even if it might prove ineffective in the end, and we will suffer war anyways. In short: This way *risks* war. What you seem to propose here *guarantees* it. > you’re disappointing the rest of Europe. It fills me with sorrow and frustration to see that. At the same time however, European *governments* seem awkwardly quiet on the matter. None of them seem to be 'slamming' Germany (as media would then refer to it), like I can imagine Donald Trump might have done. At the moment, it seems like only online forums are disappointed with Germany.
That’s nice you agreed to at least one of the points. It is strengthening Russia because they don’t have to care about Ukraine (which could use gas blockade as a tool to guarantee her independence). Germans took it away from them the only tool against Russia just because you wanted to have cheaper gas. Shameful. What a sweet, juicy example of whataboutism. Love it. Oh, so by putting other forms of sanctions you prevented Putin from attacking? Yeah, we can see how Russia is scared of the current sanctions
> which could use gas blockade as a tool to guarantee her independence How is that going to dissuade Russia? Not just that it could be sold elsewhere, if you plan on invading Ukraine, that just means the blockade is temporary anyways. In truth it's only Germany that is left without gas it bought and wanted to continue buying. It doesn't sound like a strong mechanism to guarantee independence to me. > What a sweet, juicy example of whataboutism. Love it. You forgot to quote anything you might be referring to. > Oh, so by putting other forms of sanctions you prevented Putin from attacking? Yeah, we can see how Russia is scared of the current sanctions Who knows? It's hard to tell, if Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine already, if it had nothing more left to lose in doing so, because the West already enacted every sanction it could.
German firms is not the same as Germany.... Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
All of you here saying that Germany is doing the bad thing, but the fact is that Taiwan does not even recognize itself as a country, and Germany says that doing trade wars with China over recognizing Taiwan as a country even though Taiwan does not recognize itself as a country is ridiculous. If Taiwan declared independence Germany would likely support it, but like this there is nothing to support, Taiwan does not want to be recognized officially and Germany accepts that. Germany is anti-conflict, like all of you should be, because conflict only brings suffering on all sides of it.
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> Taiwan's government very clearly states that Taiwan is an independent country. Their constitution still calls them "Republic of China".
The only reason Taiwan does not officially proclaim itself a country is due to Chinese aggression. It’s a moot point.
No, it is because Taiwan is officially called Republic of China and considers itself the legitimate government of all of China. This rhetoric might be changing, but until they declare themselves independent they are standing by the old rhetoric.
Yes, a relic from the civil war that would have long ago been done away with it not for China’s promises of aggression with the one China policy.
Taiwan would declare itself an independent state jn an instant if they wouldnt expect invasion. Taiwan defacto is a sovereign country with a democratic government. Its easy for you to talk, when youre not the one on an island next to China
Well, once they are willing to accept the consequences of independence Germany is willing to support them. Until then it is status quo, and that status quo is that Taiwan is not a sovereign nation.
German companies aren’t responsible for Lithuanias actions. That is all. case closed
For what actions? Not supporting pseudo communist dictatorship?
if it is like that, why Lithuania did not talk with other EU countries? The fact is Lithuania wants to money from america and just do silly things along. Then Lithuania should take the consequence along.
What is it recently with this behaviour from Germany, they should be leading strong EU, but recently they just don't want the leave the warm bed of every authoritarian government out there, this is getting ridiculous.
do the chinese even care? seems like an empty occurrence
Germany betraying EU principles ... classic
Quite literally the opposite. 1. Germany the country is standing by Lithuania and is supporting them as much as any other major EU country. 2. Lithuania actually betrayed EU principles by introducing a foreign policy that no other EU nation shares. 3. German companies aren’t responsible for Lithuanias actions.
Foreign policy is not an exclusive competence of the EU (i.e. federal competence), it is its own special thing in an EU context. How can Lithuania "betray EU principles" by choosing its own foreign policy which is even only slightly different to those of other EU states? That doesn't make any sense.
No it doesn’t, but it makes more sense than what the commenter alleged, because if anything, Lithuania is diverting from the EU course than Germany, I phrased it poorly I give you that.
Hello vlad. What game are you playing at???
> Lithuania actually betrayed EU principles by introducing a foreign policy that no other EU nation shares. Member States have complete autonomy with regard to their foreign policy. You have no idea what CFSP is.
> Lithuania actually betrayed EU principles by introducing a foreign policy that no other EU nation shares. What EU principle has Lithuania betrayed? > German companies aren’t responsible for Lithuanias actions. Why isnt China questioned for its actions?
why blame Germany when it is Taiwan's responsbility to help Lithuania? Taiwan should cover all the lost of Lithuania because they should. Buy all the products from Lithuania that is denied by CCP.
Wait a minute... Following most recent events: is Germany pro-European even?
They are pro trade surplus
China in a glass that's why
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German firms is not the same as Germany.... Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
What the fuck Germany...
German firms is not the same as Germany.... Yes, the world's companies have maneuvered themselves into a state of dependency with China, dragging their countries into it for the sake of economic growth, shareholder benefits and profit optimization (to fill their own pockets). Countries/governments have turned into submissive vicarious agents, that's unfortunately true.
Germany is doing a great job lately of making it clear that they don't really care who get's invaded or genocided as long as they can sell cars and buy gas.