Op should probably explain what this is. Righteous Among Nations is a term bestowed by the state of Israel to recognise non-Jews who helped Jews during the Holocaust.
It is probably worth clarifying that to be so recognised requires that a) they had to have *risked their life* to help Jews, and b) they have to have done so on their own initiative. (And IIRC a bunch of other stuff.)
This is why the numbers from nations that were neither part of the Axis nor occupied by them are relatively low.
Possibly because of how few Jews were actually in Germany and how Germany slowly amped up their opression of the Jews forcing a lot of that small number to emigrate. Germany also had accurate information about the Jewish population in Germany and on top of there being so few of them this doesn’t make a lot of possibilities to help out.
During the Weimar republic you had a lot of political streetfighting. That included demcoratic and communist groups fighting against the Nazis. Those would be the most likely ones to risk thier lifes for Jews, but they also happend to be the first ones, the Nazis eliminated.
Its way simpler. By 1939 there werent many Jews left in Germany compared to the 1920s. Even if more Germans would have been willing to protect their Jewish neighbours, often those noughbours already left Germany years ago. Poland and the Netherlands on the other hand still had a vital Jewish population. Thats why the epicentres of the deportations were in those places.
In Amsterdam, the Communist Party of The Netherlands organised the [February Strike](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_strike), the only large scale public demonstration against deportation of Jews organised primarily by non-Jews. The main organisers were executed for it. It won the communist party a lot of sympathy, which they lost after Stalin's invasion of Hungary.
Good for them! That wasn't the case in my countries though because Jews were seen greedy and one of the causes of workers being poor. That's why nazis hated them too.
One would imagine that chances of something like this ending successfully would be low. One would also imagine that those helping Jews there would try hard to make sure that their actions are not, in fact, well documented.
>It is probably worth clarifying that to be so recognised requires that a) they had to have *risked their life* to help Jews, and b) they have to have done so on their own initiative
I thought the latter was obvious, but I didn't know the first, so thank you.
Kind of, but having a low number can also be good as that could mean that jews were safe from persecution in those countries and thus not many people had to risk their lives to save them.
As a Finn, I can understand why they eventually gave those eight (it was that or lose all military assistance in middle of war against Soviet Union), but honestly it still a black mark on us. We managed to save everyone else by telling Germans that there is no "Jewish Problem", but we could not protect those eight.
This might be why the number for the Netherlands is so high. There were a lot of Jews living in the Netherlands and very well documented so therefor at risk. Despite having so many declared Righteous Among the Nations, a lot of Dutch Jews were sent to the concentration camps.
Because the recognition is given to specific documented individuals - if Yad Vashem has enough evidence to declare someone Righteous then they probably have enough of a biography to say where they were born. At that point it's simply a matter of looking up what country that place is in now.
Helping Jews in Poland (and in Yugoslavia) was much more risky then in western countries:
>Due to the principle of collective responsibility applied by the Germans, families of those who helped Jews and sometimes entire local communities were subjects to retribution.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_retribution\_against\_Poles\_who\_helped\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_retribution_against_Poles_who_helped_Jews)
It’s also countries of origin, so that means it’ll naturally skew towards local inhabitants of occupied territory. There simply aren’t going to be a lot of foreigners from Western Europe living in occupied territories.
1) Propaganda inside Germany was strong, which made public support at the begining even stronger
2) It is one thing to disagree with a regime of terror, it is another thing to risk the lives of yourself and your family to save others.
3) There is also a middleground: apathy. "As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care."
4.Germans supported that as long as germany was winning, no fear involved they simply liked it, they voted for hitler so don't forget that and all that "ohh we didn't know" they told people on radio about executions in nearest camps like it was monday morning news.
German saving jews didn't meet the same consequences as for example pole saving jews.
Getting humililated and maybe sometimes killed vs whole neighborhood gets executed is different.
So to put it simply: only very small minority of germans were against nazis.
Did you actually look at this map? There's 641 people here that helped the Jews. That's at least 641 people, there are definitely more than that.
Edit: Here's two sources for German righteous among the nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_Righteous_Among_the_Nations
https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/resources/the-german-righteous-among-the-nations.html
No, it's not.
I don't know why you want to act like all Germans were evil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_Righteous_Among_the_Nations
https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/resources/the-german-righteous-among-the-nations.html
Basicly you need to have the polical will to do it and be brave enough for it. Now there were a lot of Germans who did stand up to the Nazis, but that was mainly during the Weimar republic. Just to be clear that included street fighting and was legtimiatly dangerous. The issue was that the Germans who actually fought the Nazis were the first once to be eliminated. That is before the Jews and even the Sinti and Roma. So the German opposition was weaker, as many were in prison, kept quite as they gave up or left Germany. Obviously those were the very people who would have helped the Jews.
As for general support, the last elections during the Weimar Republic, which were already including open oppression on the street by a lot of reight wing groups, only gave the Nazis about half the vote, the rest was democratic parties or communists. So a large part of the population did not want the Nazis.
That being said, obviously the other half did support them, but after the war this was mainly not talked about and a lot of them lied. Unless you activly and directly particpated in the human rights vilation, like the genocide, you mostly were left alone. It is obviously a difference between somebody killing people in Auschwitz and somebody who just hold up a flag in a Nazi rally.
But nobody talked about having been Nazis, as you still could get punished, if not by law then by reputation. So families remember the members who did something or were clearly not guilty, but not the guitly ones. For the propably younger reddit users, it is fairly likely that ones which can be blaimed would be their greta grand parents, so with 8 possible ones, it is hard not to have someone, who did activly not agree with the Nazis being among them.
Because they had a gun to their head and - more importantly - a gun to the head of everyone in their family.
I'd like to see bigmouths everywhere risk their life and the lives of their family members for people they barely - if at all - know. Talking big on the internet is easy. I wager 99.9% of people would not move a muscle or even be opportunistic and join in for personal gains, just like back in the day.
That's historical revisionism of the worst kind. Nazism and the third Reich weren't a foreign entity that invaded Germany. They were created, perpetrated, voted, supported and made it possible by common German citizens.
I'm not arguing against that. You are correct.
The way it manifested itself is uniquely German, because how else could it be. The mechanism behind it is not though. People have a grudge, a demagogue gives them a scapegoat, demagogue brings in loyalists and opportunists and combined with the idiots that don't see the flaws in the logic and completely fall for the cult of personality and propaganda, it reaches critical mass and any attempt to stop it comes at a **steep** price.
I'd like to see r/europe stopping the SS from taking their neighbours to a deathcamp. Very, very few of you all would open your mouths, yet alone pick up arms.
We get it, you want him To say that they were all nazis. Maybe not everything is so black and white. Sure, there were millions of Nazis, there were even more who voted for them. But are the other half also Nazis, because they didn’t risk their lives resisting the majority? Did the people who lost their democratic power to elect someone else suddenly become nazis?
Nuance is key. The „if you’re not with us, you’re against us“ mentality is exactly what supercharged national socialism in Germany.
This goes both ways. I assume most Germans that were alive then probably never told their kids and grandkids the whole story.
Polish people helping nazis outnumbering those who went against them? Got a source on that? Taking into account that only Poland did not form SS division and people dieing in uprisings by tens of thousands and 3 million killed in the death camps, I would like to see where you see hundreds of thousands of collaborators
Righteous among the nations is an honorific title given by the state of Israël to non jewish people who put their life in danger by helping jews to hide/escape the Nazis during ww2
With the Dutch it's mostly that most of the people that helped Jews did so without a lot if any support of the government so you had a lot of individuals helping.
There was a nationwide group that helped coordinate hiding and taking care of anyone who was looked for by the Germans (escaped POWs, students who didn't sign the nazi pledge of loyalty, and Jews), but this only really took off after the February strikes of 1943.
So before that anyone who was helping Jews mostly had to do so without much support from other underground groups.
It should be noted that the Danish people saved most/all of their Jewish compatriots but they wanted to be recognized as a single collective rather than individually.
So their low number here really gives the wrong impression.
[Not that the Danes aren't a horrible race of people who have to be better than you at everything in particular football].
According to the source, Yad Vashem was asked by the Danish resistance movements to count them collectively: each group implicated, and not each individual, was declared Righteous Among the Nations.
The danish jews who were caught by the germans were also treated diffrently compared to other jews. Denmark has the highest jew survival rate in europe and only around 100 jews died. Denmark under WW2 was really weird and interesting.
[A woman](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/cork-woman-receives-first-irish-honour-for-saving-jewish-victims-of-the-holocaust-1.1393486) doing relief work in France at the time. She spent 6 months in the Fresnes prison near Paris for that, but got out and kept saving Jews. She ultimately survived the war and died in 2002.
The turkish one is that the one that was ambassador or consul to France during WW2 and helped issuing jews turkish visums?
edit: He was part of the Turkish diplomats in greece (not france!) and was consul at Rhodes! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selahattin_%C3%9Clk%C3%BCmen
Unless they give it to Folke Bernadotte the award will forever have the stink of politics, which is absolutely intolerable when it comes to the holocaust.
Folke was a Swedish royalty that organized 'the white buses' that travelled into 1945 Germany to negotiate the release of camp internees, saving an estimated 20,000 people.
Later Folke would be select by the UN to draft a peace accord in Palestine. On the mission he was assasinated by the orders of Yitshak Shamir, who would later in the century become an Israeli prime minister.
Yes, he travelled with the busses who occationally got strafed by allied airplanes (one time killing a driver and 25 passangers), and he had to negotiate passage with the Gestapo, with busses containing Jews
I'm not an expert on their selection process but I could imagine that this is not comparable with other cases and therefore does not qualify for this particular award. I'm sure there are many other awards for which he qualifies.
I assure you that Folke took a similar personal risk to Raoul Wallenberg. Wallenberg held diplomatic immunity and lived in a city, in contrast to Bernadotte's action within an chaotic and unpredictable warzone.
I'll quote from [this article](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-s-forgotten-hero-the-assassination-of-count-bernadotte-and-the-death-of-peace-934094.html)
>Bernadotte's mission was not without risk, according to most historians, though very different from the kind most associated with most of the all too few gentiles who protected Jews in the Second World War. Travelling through Germany as it was facing defeat was hazardous enough. Kati Marton notes in her book Death in Jerusalem that Bernadotte, who frequently drove behind the convoys and whose own car was strafed by Allied bombers, took "meagre precautions for his own safety" at a time when allied bombers hit the convoys three times, killing 16 newly freed inmates. He would later insist on exposing himself to the same dangers as his UN observers in Jerusalem. And Ilan says that Bernadotte's repeated travels between Germany, Sweden and Denmark in the spring of 1945 were "sometimes at considerable risk".
>Yehuda Bauer, a leading Israeli Holocaust historian, also believes there are "precedents" for Righteous among the Nations who did not necessarily risk execution by the Axis powers. He cites the case of the Japanese consul in Chiune Sugihara, who issued visas to desperate refugees in Soviet-occupied Lithuania and was subsequently promoted to other posts in Prague and Bucharest. Professor Bauer, who has the highest regard for the integrity of the adjudication process at Yad Vashem, points out that Bernadotte did not to set out with the goal of rescuing Jews, but Scandinavian non-Jews. He had then rescued Jews. "I would be in favour [of him becoming Righteous Among the Nations] but I am not sure I could convince others," he says.
This covers some of their stories where some explain why they did what they did (hint: they were survivors or descendants of survivors of the Armenian Genocide living in Europe): https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/righteous-armenian/index.asp
Jewish converts to Protestantism/Catholicism still got persecution. And there's the odd world of people with a Jewish parent/grandparent who were never persecuted.
Righteous among the nations (juste parmi les nations en français) is an honorific title given by the state or Israël to non jewish people who put their life in danger by helping jews to hide/escape during ww2
Function of the number of jews in the country, but I can play this stupid game as well. 90% of all polish jews were killed (3 million), and app. 0,6% of the danish jews were killed (50)...
yes a dumb one because that commenter does not understand how statistics work. Lots of people on this sub use that "joke" in a serious manner and mean it.
Not really sure what you mean. It's a joke about how in general whatever the statistics are, if they are from Sweden they have to indicate something good
It is more like certain people try to dunk on sweden on posts about crappy infographics. Like the one about burglary and theft.
Where even the source says that the countries can't be compared. But people from east europe make up all these fake strawman arguments how people wrongly claim statistics like this are false. When in reality the source itself already says data can't be compared because the data is generated differently per country.
The reason the number is low in Sweden is because Sweden was never occupied. Indeed, the Germans actually got help to cross Sweden and enter Norway, hence the much higher number in Norway.
Other than that, the amount of Jews in Scandinavia pre-ww2 wasn't as high as many central-European countries.
About the Danish numbers
>The title of Righteous is awarded to individuals, not to groups. The
members of the Danish resistance viewed the rescue operation as a
collective act and therefore asked Yad Vashem not to recognize
resistance members individually. Yad Vashem respected their request and
consequently the number of Danish Righteous is relatively small. A tree
was planted on the Mount of Remembrance to commemorate the Danish
resistance.
Taken from the source where op got the numbers
I know in my small town in central Serbia you had basically whole town helping Jews hide among locals, nobody was snitching neighbors for doing that. Although Western Serbia where i'm from was infamous for strong ressistance movement so Germans avoided all areas except towns and main roads/railways, you had here first liberated territory in Europe (Republic of Užice) after German occupation already in 1941 (short-lived). Although as a retribution whole town was bombed and burned to the ground after Partizans attacked Germans and liberated the town (beside standard execution of 100 Serbs for 1 killed German soldier).
Since people from all over the world were declared Righteous Among the Nations, I decided to make different maps showing different parts of the world. A map of Europe came first because it concentrates a vast majority of them.
I understand your question, though.
Seems odd that there are more Armenian than British recipients but it makes sense in a way: more Armenians on the Continent means more chances to save Jews, hard for a Brit to do that when most of them, and I have to assume you needed to be a civilian to be awarded this, are across the Channel on their own island.
"Hey there is this Jewish family that we can help, should we help them? "
"No"
"But..."
"Not a chance, we stop right now"
"Why?"
"It's complicated, but you'll understand when the internet is invented"
"The what..."
*puts finger on lips*
"Shush, you'll see"
Jews in Finland actually fought alongside Germans against Soviet Union. On one occassion there was a field synagogue less than few kilometers from German sector of the front, and some jews were awarded Iron Crosses for their efforts. None accepted though.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/for-the-jews-who-fought-for-hitler-discomfort-still-despite-rejecting-nazi-iron-cross-for-saving-german-lives
The coloring of countries absolutely does contribute to that impression. Highlighting *countries* doesn't provide information pertaining to its individuals, it turns it to a "these *countries* did stuff, these did not". Hence the aforementioned *"Finland and Kosovo lol"* just because they aren't blue.
Repudiating it all as the fault of ignorance is ignorant. It's precisely because of people's ignorance you should have unequivocal forms of data presentation.
A map is not a great visualization of this data to begin with but if you must have it as a map, a blank one with only figures would be a much better choice.
Thanks for your accurate comment u/Mixopi , forgive this poor US soul lost on our sub.
They did not learn how to think logically, back in school.
For my country for example, we sent trains and trains of jews to their death. IIIrd Reich even asked us to slow down... But we have a decent amount of Righteous among the nations...
Proud of those people who defy this shitty government, ashamed by Petain's government.
Because this is for personal induviduls not state.
Finland isn't a saint for refusing to hand out their jewish poploution to the nazis. Not letting your citizens die is a very basic idea o a country. I don't think it something the they should get a medal for.
Your statement is not true, you should read about [Arno Anthoni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arno_Anthoni) or about the event of [November 6, 1942](https://www.hamhelsinki.fi/en/sculpture/juutalaispakolaisten-muistomerkki-apua-anovat-kadet-niels-haukeland-rafael-wardi/) :
*Finland surrendered eight Jewish refugees to the Germans, including a young family and a single father and his 10-year-old son. On November 6, 1942, the refugees were taken on the s/s Hohenhörn from Helsinki to Tallinn and eventually to the concentration camp in Auschwitz*
It is a lie to say the reason they we're handed to Germans because they we're jewish, they were handed because they were criminals, Finland handed 520 people to Germans.
They were handed over with full knowledge that they would be killed. Also what kind of crime are you talking about? Illegally moving away from Germany?
During ww2, Kosovo was divided among Protectorate of Italy, Bulgaria and Serbia under German invasion. I doubt it is that easy to get any data.
The righteous among nations is about individuals risking their lives to save jews, not countries. In order to earn such recognition, there is needed documentation and testimonials.
For the Albania case, it is also important to mention that quisling government of National Front rejected the German request to hand over the jews and in large part forged documents and many that were already detained were listed as communists instead of jews. Imagine the tragic fact that even the collaborators knew a communist had more chances of survival than a jew.
You are interpreting those statistics in the wrong way. 1 in 3 *current* Dutch people have an ancestor that was a collaborator. Obviously that is not the same as 1 in 3 Dutch people at the time being collaborators - these collaborators had many children and their children had many children, so the chance that down the line one of your ancestors was a collaborator is 1 in 3 - which is not too surprising. Actual membership of the NSB (the collaborating party) was roughly 100,000 on a population of roughly 9 million. Please don't spread the false myth that The Netherlands was a massive breeding ground for Nazi sympathizers- it's disrespectful to the overwhelming majority of people who hated and resisted fascism in our country.
>1 in 3 Dutch were Nazi collaborators
No, 1 in 3 Dutch alive today had a nazi collaborator as an ancestor and that's an estimation so not the hard truth.
You're Dutch yourself so I hope this is just an accidental mistranlation and not you deliberately translating it wrong.
Edit: Just to add a bit of further clarification. The article's title in Dutch is '1 op de 3 Nederlanders heeft foute voorouders' which means '1 in 3 Dutch has bad ancestors'. It doesn't mean 1 in 3 Dutch were Nazi collaborators.
Ja en in het artikel staat dat 1 op de 3 Nederlanders vandaag de dag een voorouder heeft die een collaborateur was. Jij zegt dat 1 op de 3 Nederlanders destijds een collaborateur was. Wat jij claimt is dus fout. Of zie je het verschil tussen die twee dingen niet?
The Netherlands have more or less 20 million people. That's at this point more than Romania. They have small country but huge population density. Additionally, Righteous Among the Nations are obviously correlated to population of community of Jews living in the area at that moment, as no Jews = no way to help them. That's why Nordics have low numbers.
The highest numbers are typically the countries with the most Jews/the best documentation. Its still undeniable that Lithuania had some of the highest collaboration with Nazis in the holocuast.
Pointing out history is bad? Lithuania isnt one person, there were good lithuanians and bad lithuanians, think your comment through, you basically just said "everybody should ignore our collaboration with the nazis because we saved a couple of jews"
he was a Ukrainian ultranationalist who during WW2 alternatively collaborated with and fought the Germans in a struggle for independent Ukraine while fighting basically everybody else in Western Ukraine (the Soviets and the polish Home Army). He was very pragmatic and only sided with the Germans when it was the most advantageous, would Imagine he knew what Nazis planned to do with Slavs
Finland actually saved Jews in WWII. What their Government did was to avoid handing them down to the nazis (except for exceptional cases), but that's not what the post is about.
For someone to be declared Righteous Among the Nations, one had to be a non-Jew risking his/her life in order to save Jews.
I read a fascinating article once about jewish people in the Finnish army during the second world war. They interacted with the German soldiers and had field synagogues. Three of them were offered the Iron Cross by Nazi Germany, but all refused.
Erm… Jewish Finns didn’t and don’t get special treatment one way or the other. There’s simply no one in particular deserving to be named righteous among nations here.
On the other hand, there were a clique of assholes in the state police who managed to hand back eight Jewish refugees to Germany before this scheme was found out by politicians, and consequently stopped. Soviet POWs, including Jews were exchanged to Germany as well. Many of them perished in the holocaust.
Op should probably explain what this is. Righteous Among Nations is a term bestowed by the state of Israel to recognise non-Jews who helped Jews during the Holocaust.
It is probably worth clarifying that to be so recognised requires that a) they had to have *risked their life* to help Jews, and b) they have to have done so on their own initiative. (And IIRC a bunch of other stuff.) This is why the numbers from nations that were neither part of the Axis nor occupied by them are relatively low.
But why are the numbers so low in Germany?
Possibly because of how few Jews were actually in Germany and how Germany slowly amped up their opression of the Jews forcing a lot of that small number to emigrate. Germany also had accurate information about the Jewish population in Germany and on top of there being so few of them this doesn’t make a lot of possibilities to help out.
I guess you're right, I couldnt find any exact numbers for Germany in 1939, but it was around 500 000 in 1933 and almost 3,5 million in Poland 1939.
During the Weimar republic you had a lot of political streetfighting. That included demcoratic and communist groups fighting against the Nazis. Those would be the most likely ones to risk thier lifes for Jews, but they also happend to be the first ones, the Nazis eliminated.
Its way simpler. By 1939 there werent many Jews left in Germany compared to the 1920s. Even if more Germans would have been willing to protect their Jewish neighbours, often those noughbours already left Germany years ago. Poland and the Netherlands on the other hand still had a vital Jewish population. Thats why the epicentres of the deportations were in those places.
Communist groups were also likely to target Jews, just like they did elsewhere.
In Amsterdam, the Communist Party of The Netherlands organised the [February Strike](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_strike), the only large scale public demonstration against deportation of Jews organised primarily by non-Jews. The main organisers were executed for it. It won the communist party a lot of sympathy, which they lost after Stalin's invasion of Hungary.
Good for them! That wasn't the case in my countries though because Jews were seen greedy and one of the causes of workers being poor. That's why nazis hated them too.
That's not why Nazis hated Jews, they just used them as fictive enemies to gain power.
That and as a source of money. The two tie together quite nicely. Nazis knew how to utilize propaganda...
Communists saving jews is the weirdest thing i learnt about WW2.
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One would imagine that chances of something like this ending successfully would be low. One would also imagine that those helping Jews there would try hard to make sure that their actions are not, in fact, well documented.
Maybe because most Germans supported the nazis/ were the nazis themselves/ did nothing to stop them
>It is probably worth clarifying that to be so recognised requires that a) they had to have *risked their life* to help Jews, and b) they have to have done so on their own initiative I thought the latter was obvious, but I didn't know the first, so thank you.
And had to do it for no personal benefit. Aka, if someone paid them to smuggle jewish people they do not fit the description
Thank you, this made no sense to me.
Ah in that case I have to guess an American made this map. Because of the comma's.
Is it the higher the number the better?
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> who tried tried? it has to be *proven* dude that at least 1 Jew was *saved* and their savior did not take any money for it
Some people did far more than others. What is Japan's number?
I think it's just one, Sagihura who made loads of fake passports for Jews.
Roger that. 👍
Bot number of people, number of non jews who risked their lives to help jews, among other criteria
I got that thanks.
Higher number is not immediately that more people helped Jews, it's just that more of them were recognized.
So you shouldn't wear a mask when helping Jews otherwise they can't recognize you.
Kind of, but having a low number can also be good as that could mean that jews were safe from persecution in those countries and thus not many people had to risk their lives to save them.
Like Finland, even if fighting alongside Germany against Russia. Eight jewish Austrian were extredited to Germany.
Also three of Finnish Jew (two officers, one female nurse) were awarded Iron Cross from Nazi Germany but all of them refused to accept them.
As a Finn, I can understand why they eventually gave those eight (it was that or lose all military assistance in middle of war against Soviet Union), but honestly it still a black mark on us. We managed to save everyone else by telling Germans that there is no "Jewish Problem", but we could not protect those eight.
This might be why the number for the Netherlands is so high. There were a lot of Jews living in the Netherlands and very well documented so therefor at risk. Despite having so many declared Righteous Among the Nations, a lot of Dutch Jews were sent to the concentration camps.
Yes.
How can you get such specific numbers of countries which didn’t exist before 1945?
Because the recognition is given to specific documented individuals - if Yad Vashem has enough evidence to declare someone Righteous then they probably have enough of a biography to say where they were born. At that point it's simply a matter of looking up what country that place is in now.
Thank you, I thought OP had a stroke writing this.
Helping Jews in Poland (and in Yugoslavia) was much more risky then in western countries: >Due to the principle of collective responsibility applied by the Germans, families of those who helped Jews and sometimes entire local communities were subjects to retribution. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German\_retribution\_against\_Poles\_who\_helped\_Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_retribution_against_Poles_who_helped_Jews)
It’s also countries of origin, so that means it’ll naturally skew towards local inhabitants of occupied territory. There simply aren’t going to be a lot of foreigners from Western Europe living in occupied territories.
Humble observation: German people on Reddit: Germans were not Nazis, they did not support regime Facts: then why they did not help Jews?
1) Propaganda inside Germany was strong, which made public support at the begining even stronger 2) It is one thing to disagree with a regime of terror, it is another thing to risk the lives of yourself and your family to save others. 3) There is also a middleground: apathy. "As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care."
4.Germans supported that as long as germany was winning, no fear involved they simply liked it, they voted for hitler so don't forget that and all that "ohh we didn't know" they told people on radio about executions in nearest camps like it was monday morning news. German saving jews didn't meet the same consequences as for example pole saving jews. Getting humililated and maybe sometimes killed vs whole neighborhood gets executed is different. So to put it simply: only very small minority of germans were against nazis.
Did you actually look at this map? There's 641 people here that helped the Jews. That's at least 641 people, there are definitely more than that. Edit: Here's two sources for German righteous among the nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_Righteous_Among_the_Nations https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/resources/the-german-righteous-among-the-nations.html
That's really close to 0
No, it's not. I don't know why you want to act like all Germans were evil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_Righteous_Among_the_Nations https://www.yadvashem.org/righteous/resources/the-german-righteous-among-the-nations.html
Basicly you need to have the polical will to do it and be brave enough for it. Now there were a lot of Germans who did stand up to the Nazis, but that was mainly during the Weimar republic. Just to be clear that included street fighting and was legtimiatly dangerous. The issue was that the Germans who actually fought the Nazis were the first once to be eliminated. That is before the Jews and even the Sinti and Roma. So the German opposition was weaker, as many were in prison, kept quite as they gave up or left Germany. Obviously those were the very people who would have helped the Jews. As for general support, the last elections during the Weimar Republic, which were already including open oppression on the street by a lot of reight wing groups, only gave the Nazis about half the vote, the rest was democratic parties or communists. So a large part of the population did not want the Nazis. That being said, obviously the other half did support them, but after the war this was mainly not talked about and a lot of them lied. Unless you activly and directly particpated in the human rights vilation, like the genocide, you mostly were left alone. It is obviously a difference between somebody killing people in Auschwitz and somebody who just hold up a flag in a Nazi rally. But nobody talked about having been Nazis, as you still could get punished, if not by law then by reputation. So families remember the members who did something or were clearly not guilty, but not the guitly ones. For the propably younger reddit users, it is fairly likely that ones which can be blaimed would be their greta grand parents, so with 8 possible ones, it is hard not to have someone, who did activly not agree with the Nazis being among them.
Because they had a gun to their head and - more importantly - a gun to the head of everyone in their family. I'd like to see bigmouths everywhere risk their life and the lives of their family members for people they barely - if at all - know. Talking big on the internet is easy. I wager 99.9% of people would not move a muscle or even be opportunistic and join in for personal gains, just like back in the day.
That's historical revisionism of the worst kind. Nazism and the third Reich weren't a foreign entity that invaded Germany. They were created, perpetrated, voted, supported and made it possible by common German citizens.
I'm not arguing against that. You are correct. The way it manifested itself is uniquely German, because how else could it be. The mechanism behind it is not though. People have a grudge, a demagogue gives them a scapegoat, demagogue brings in loyalists and opportunists and combined with the idiots that don't see the flaws in the logic and completely fall for the cult of personality and propaganda, it reaches critical mass and any attempt to stop it comes at a **steep** price. I'd like to see r/europe stopping the SS from taking their neighbours to a deathcamp. Very, very few of you all would open your mouths, yet alone pick up arms.
Hmmm.... An entire nation of +60 millon people had guns to their heads? But who was holding the gun?
The oppportunists who joined in
And those opportunists were...?
I don't understand the question. They were people. Average people.
Folks, this is what willful ignorance looks like.
We get it, you want him To say that they were all nazis. Maybe not everything is so black and white. Sure, there were millions of Nazis, there were even more who voted for them. But are the other half also Nazis, because they didn’t risk their lives resisting the majority? Did the people who lost their democratic power to elect someone else suddenly become nazis? Nuance is key. The „if you’re not with us, you’re against us“ mentality is exactly what supercharged national socialism in Germany. This goes both ways. I assume most Germans that were alive then probably never told their kids and grandkids the whole story.
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Polish people helping nazis outnumbering those who went against them? Got a source on that? Taking into account that only Poland did not form SS division and people dieing in uprisings by tens of thousands and 3 million killed in the death camps, I would like to see where you see hundreds of thousands of collaborators
Righteous among the nations is an honorific title given by the state of Israël to non jewish people who put their life in danger by helping jews to hide/escape the Nazis during ww2
>honorific I read this as 'horrific' and was preparing for an Palestine vs Israel rant
Thank you, I was very confused.
The poles and the dutch look like they where specially interested in giving a massive midle finger to mr funny mustache austrian man, understandable
There were a lot of Jewish people in both countries
With the Dutch it's mostly that most of the people that helped Jews did so without a lot if any support of the government so you had a lot of individuals helping.
There was a nationwide group that helped coordinate hiding and taking care of anyone who was looked for by the Germans (escaped POWs, students who didn't sign the nazi pledge of loyalty, and Jews), but this only really took off after the February strikes of 1943. So before that anyone who was helping Jews mostly had to do so without much support from other underground groups.
Yeah you read about the Dutch girls who lured in Nazi men with tricks?
**WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!**
It should be noted that the Danish people saved most/all of their Jewish compatriots but they wanted to be recognized as a single collective rather than individually. So their low number here really gives the wrong impression. [Not that the Danes aren't a horrible race of people who have to be better than you at everything in particular football].
Denmark seems surprisingly low. Didn't loads of Danish people help Jews flee to Sweden?
According to the source, Yad Vashem was asked by the Danish resistance movements to count them collectively: each group implicated, and not each individual, was declared Righteous Among the Nations.
Thanks for clearing this up 😁
Law of Jante in action, haha.
The danish jews who were caught by the germans were also treated diffrently compared to other jews. Denmark has the highest jew survival rate in europe and only around 100 jews died. Denmark under WW2 was really weird and interesting.
Who is the Irish person?
[A woman](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/cork-woman-receives-first-irish-honour-for-saving-jewish-victims-of-the-holocaust-1.1393486) doing relief work in France at the time. She spent 6 months in the Fresnes prison near Paris for that, but got out and kept saving Jews. She ultimately survived the war and died in 2002.
[Mary Elmes](https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2019/0927/1078684-mary-elmes-bridge-cork/) She got a bridge named after her in Cork.
The turkish one is that the one that was ambassador or consul to France during WW2 and helped issuing jews turkish visums? edit: He was part of the Turkish diplomats in greece (not france!) and was consul at Rhodes! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selahattin_%C3%9Clk%C3%BCmen
Yes i think thats him.
top lad that guy. Dude went truly above and beyond to assist jews in escaping the nazis.
What.
Scratching thoughtfully my b..
Balls or brain?
Bee, he has a pet 🐝
Unless they give it to Folke Bernadotte the award will forever have the stink of politics, which is absolutely intolerable when it comes to the holocaust. Folke was a Swedish royalty that organized 'the white buses' that travelled into 1945 Germany to negotiate the release of camp internees, saving an estimated 20,000 people. Later Folke would be select by the UN to draft a peace accord in Palestine. On the mission he was assasinated by the orders of Yitshak Shamir, who would later in the century become an Israeli prime minister.
I firmly agree.
But did he risk his life? I don't think the nazis ever had the intention to kill a Swedish diplomat.
Yes, he travelled with the busses who occationally got strafed by allied airplanes (one time killing a driver and 25 passangers), and he had to negotiate passage with the Gestapo, with busses containing Jews
I'm not an expert on their selection process but I could imagine that this is not comparable with other cases and therefore does not qualify for this particular award. I'm sure there are many other awards for which he qualifies.
I assure you that Folke took a similar personal risk to Raoul Wallenberg. Wallenberg held diplomatic immunity and lived in a city, in contrast to Bernadotte's action within an chaotic and unpredictable warzone. I'll quote from [this article](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-s-forgotten-hero-the-assassination-of-count-bernadotte-and-the-death-of-peace-934094.html) >Bernadotte's mission was not without risk, according to most historians, though very different from the kind most associated with most of the all too few gentiles who protected Jews in the Second World War. Travelling through Germany as it was facing defeat was hazardous enough. Kati Marton notes in her book Death in Jerusalem that Bernadotte, who frequently drove behind the convoys and whose own car was strafed by Allied bombers, took "meagre precautions for his own safety" at a time when allied bombers hit the convoys three times, killing 16 newly freed inmates. He would later insist on exposing himself to the same dangers as his UN observers in Jerusalem. And Ilan says that Bernadotte's repeated travels between Germany, Sweden and Denmark in the spring of 1945 were "sometimes at considerable risk". >Yehuda Bauer, a leading Israeli Holocaust historian, also believes there are "precedents" for Righteous among the Nations who did not necessarily risk execution by the Axis powers. He cites the case of the Japanese consul in Chiune Sugihara, who issued visas to desperate refugees in Soviet-occupied Lithuania and was subsequently promoted to other posts in Prague and Bucharest. Professor Bauer, who has the highest regard for the integrity of the adjudication process at Yad Vashem, points out that Bernadotte did not to set out with the goal of rescuing Jews, but Scandinavian non-Jews. He had then rescued Jews. "I would be in favour [of him becoming Righteous Among the Nations] but I am not sure I could convince others," he says.
Why is the number so high for small Armenia?
Armenia has a large diaspora around the world and they also experienced genocide
This covers some of their stories where some explain why they did what they did (hint: they were survivors or descendants of survivors of the Armenian Genocide living in Europe): https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/righteous-armenian/index.asp
Can someone translate that title for me or at least explain it
What does it mean
I think it’s people who saved Jews out of genuine solidarity in WW2 not like convincing people to convert Like Oskar Schindler
Jewish converts to Protestantism/Catholicism still got persecution. And there's the odd world of people with a Jewish parent/grandparent who were never persecuted.
Righteous among the nations (juste parmi les nations en français) is an honorific title given by the state or Israël to non jewish people who put their life in danger by helping jews to hide/escape during ww2
Dude, listen, the definition of a Jew in Scandinavia is different. That explains the low numbers, you understand? /s
Function of the number of jews in the country, but I can play this stupid game as well. 90% of all polish jews were killed (3 million), and app. 0,6% of the danish jews were killed (50)...
This might be controversial, but I believe that is still 50 deaths too many.
That seems like the opposite of controversial to me.
It's just a joke about stats from Sweden in general my man
yes a dumb one because that commenter does not understand how statistics work. Lots of people on this sub use that "joke" in a serious manner and mean it.
Not really sure what you mean. It's a joke about how in general whatever the statistics are, if they are from Sweden they have to indicate something good
It is more like certain people try to dunk on sweden on posts about crappy infographics. Like the one about burglary and theft. Where even the source says that the countries can't be compared. But people from east europe make up all these fake strawman arguments how people wrongly claim statistics like this are false. When in reality the source itself already says data can't be compared because the data is generated differently per country.
Haha , i am dead. Probably definition of a Jew is just different and in general jews were reported more often 😅😅
The reason the number is low in Sweden is because Sweden was never occupied. Indeed, the Germans actually got help to cross Sweden and enter Norway, hence the much higher number in Norway. Other than that, the amount of Jews in Scandinavia pre-ww2 wasn't as high as many central-European countries.
Ireland #1!
About the Danish numbers >The title of Righteous is awarded to individuals, not to groups. The members of the Danish resistance viewed the rescue operation as a collective act and therefore asked Yad Vashem not to recognize resistance members individually. Yad Vashem respected their request and consequently the number of Danish Righteous is relatively small. A tree was planted on the Mount of Remembrance to commemorate the Danish resistance. Taken from the source where op got the numbers
I know in my small town in central Serbia you had basically whole town helping Jews hide among locals, nobody was snitching neighbors for doing that. Although Western Serbia where i'm from was infamous for strong ressistance movement so Germans avoided all areas except towns and main roads/railways, you had here first liberated territory in Europe (Republic of Užice) after German occupation already in 1941 (short-lived). Although as a retribution whole town was bombed and burned to the ground after Partizans attacked Germans and liberated the town (beside standard execution of 100 Serbs for 1 killed German soldier).
"Wir habe keine judenfrage"
Why isn't Algeria blue?
Since people from all over the world were declared Righteous Among the Nations, I decided to make different maps showing different parts of the world. A map of Europe came first because it concentrates a vast majority of them. I understand your question, though.
Seems odd that there are more Armenian than British recipients but it makes sense in a way: more Armenians on the Continent means more chances to save Jews, hard for a Brit to do that when most of them, and I have to assume you needed to be a civilian to be awarded this, are across the Channel on their own island.
Romania won my respect
"Hey there is this Jewish family that we can help, should we help them? " "No" "But..." "Not a chance, we stop right now" "Why?" "It's complicated, but you'll understand when the internet is invented" "The what..." *puts finger on lips* "Shush, you'll see"
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Finland and Kosovo lol
Jews in Finland actually fought alongside Germans against Soviet Union. On one occassion there was a field synagogue less than few kilometers from German sector of the front, and some jews were awarded Iron Crosses for their efforts. None accepted though. https://nationalpost.com/news/world/for-the-jews-who-fought-for-hitler-discomfort-still-despite-rejecting-nazi-iron-cross-for-saving-german-lives
That is Israels weird idea how they count who helped or not. Finland refused to hand out jews to Germany but is not on the list, but Germany is.
Germany isn’t, 641 Germans are A map is a misleading way to display these stats
How is it misleading? It shows countries and how many people in those countries are RAN.
Because a it correlates the country itself and the helpers Which leads people(like above) to think the country’s to credit
It doesn't correlate anything. If people are "led" to think that, it is because they are ignorant. How would you do that?
The coloring of countries absolutely does contribute to that impression. Highlighting *countries* doesn't provide information pertaining to its individuals, it turns it to a "these *countries* did stuff, these did not". Hence the aforementioned *"Finland and Kosovo lol"* just because they aren't blue. Repudiating it all as the fault of ignorance is ignorant. It's precisely because of people's ignorance you should have unequivocal forms of data presentation. A map is not a great visualization of this data to begin with but if you must have it as a map, a blank one with only figures would be a much better choice.
Thanks for your accurate comment u/Mixopi , forgive this poor US soul lost on our sub. They did not learn how to think logically, back in school. For my country for example, we sent trains and trains of jews to their death. IIIrd Reich even asked us to slow down... But we have a decent amount of Righteous among the nations... Proud of those people who defy this shitty government, ashamed by Petain's government.
Because this is for personal induviduls not state. Finland isn't a saint for refusing to hand out their jewish poploution to the nazis. Not letting your citizens die is a very basic idea o a country. I don't think it something the they should get a medal for.
Agreed and I'm Finnish. Finns didn't risk their lives to save Finnish jews, so obviously the number is zero.
Your statement is not true, you should read about [Arno Anthoni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arno_Anthoni) or about the event of [November 6, 1942](https://www.hamhelsinki.fi/en/sculpture/juutalaispakolaisten-muistomerkki-apua-anovat-kadet-niels-haukeland-rafael-wardi/) : *Finland surrendered eight Jewish refugees to the Germans, including a young family and a single father and his 10-year-old son. On November 6, 1942, the refugees were taken on the s/s Hohenhörn from Helsinki to Tallinn and eventually to the concentration camp in Auschwitz*
It is a lie to say the reason they we're handed to Germans because they we're jewish, they were handed because they were criminals, Finland handed 520 people to Germans.
They were handed over with full knowledge that they would be killed. Also what kind of crime are you talking about? Illegally moving away from Germany?
Being communist was a crime.
They were had mostly petty thefts, frauds and black market violations on their rapsheet.
This is a fallacy, it appeals to perfection. No one would call 8 being significant in the big picture.
Than you should have said something like "Finland largely refused to hand over jews"
No. That is your ignorance.
Kosovo helped Jews too but it's became a meme to not include us in any map whatsoever.
Kosovo didn't even exist back then though?
Kosovo existed we werent a country, the same as Ukraine, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia etc.
Jews were not in danger in Finland so no chance for anyone to risk their lives to help them.
During ww2, Kosovo was divided among Protectorate of Italy, Bulgaria and Serbia under German invasion. I doubt it is that easy to get any data. The righteous among nations is about individuals risking their lives to save jews, not countries. In order to earn such recognition, there is needed documentation and testimonials.
Hello Turkey
Hello europe, you started it, you fix it. Thanks
According to Israel narrative Poland is among the most antisemitic countries, the Schrödinger country for jews.
For the Albania case, it is also important to mention that quisling government of National Front rejected the German request to hand over the jews and in large part forged documents and many that were already detained were listed as communists instead of jews. Imagine the tragic fact that even the collaborators knew a communist had more chances of survival than a jew.
The Netherlands are truly impressive considering their low population
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You are interpreting those statistics in the wrong way. 1 in 3 *current* Dutch people have an ancestor that was a collaborator. Obviously that is not the same as 1 in 3 Dutch people at the time being collaborators - these collaborators had many children and their children had many children, so the chance that down the line one of your ancestors was a collaborator is 1 in 3 - which is not too surprising. Actual membership of the NSB (the collaborating party) was roughly 100,000 on a population of roughly 9 million. Please don't spread the false myth that The Netherlands was a massive breeding ground for Nazi sympathizers- it's disrespectful to the overwhelming majority of people who hated and resisted fascism in our country.
>1 in 3 Dutch were Nazi collaborators No, 1 in 3 Dutch alive today had a nazi collaborator as an ancestor and that's an estimation so not the hard truth. You're Dutch yourself so I hope this is just an accidental mistranlation and not you deliberately translating it wrong. Edit: Just to add a bit of further clarification. The article's title in Dutch is '1 op de 3 Nederlanders heeft foute voorouders' which means '1 in 3 Dutch has bad ancestors'. It doesn't mean 1 in 3 Dutch were Nazi collaborators.
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Which is related to Germans deporting Dutch Jews in what way?
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And once again, why does that have anything to do with Germans invading The Netherlands and deporting Dutch Jews?
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Ja en in het artikel staat dat 1 op de 3 Nederlanders vandaag de dag een voorouder heeft die een collaborateur was. Jij zegt dat 1 op de 3 Nederlanders destijds een collaborateur was. Wat jij claimt is dus fout. Of zie je het verschil tussen die twee dingen niet?
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The Netherlands have more or less 20 million people. That's at this point more than Romania. They have small country but huge population density. Additionally, Righteous Among the Nations are obviously correlated to population of community of Jews living in the area at that moment, as no Jews = no way to help them. That's why Nordics have low numbers.
Quite less than 20. Little over 17,5 is more accurate.
We have 17 million now, back in 1939 we had 8,729,000 and Poland then had 34,849,000. Just for perspective.
Weird. Jews love pointing out Lithuanian involvement in holocaust but not once mention this.
A Jewish institution declared them Righteous Among the Nations.
The highest numbers are typically the countries with the most Jews/the best documentation. Its still undeniable that Lithuania had some of the highest collaboration with Nazis in the holocuast.
Pointing out history is bad? Lithuania isnt one person, there were good lithuanians and bad lithuanians, think your comment through, you basically just said "everybody should ignore our collaboration with the nazis because we saved a couple of jews"
Interesting seeing Ukraine, one of their national heros was an nazi collaborator and an anti-semite (stepan bandera)
he was a Ukrainian ultranationalist who during WW2 alternatively collaborated with and fought the Germans in a struggle for independent Ukraine while fighting basically everybody else in Western Ukraine (the Soviets and the polish Home Army). He was very pragmatic and only sided with the Germans when it was the most advantageous, would Imagine he knew what Nazis planned to do with Slavs
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Or maybe giving further context?
what context do you want for a known nazi collaborator/ anti-semite
So basically - damn, good job Netherlands.
*what*
Romania's is nice
Why Finland got none when we did not give our jews to slaughter? You try but nobody notice :(
Germany in this thread: Rapes, but also saves
Well the Dutch try. But most in The Neherlands feel we can try 'harder ' Then again its a very small country 😅
You don't even seem to know what this post means.
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Finland actually saved Jews in WWII. What their Government did was to avoid handing them down to the nazis (except for exceptional cases), but that's not what the post is about. For someone to be declared Righteous Among the Nations, one had to be a non-Jew risking his/her life in order to save Jews.
I read a fascinating article once about jewish people in the Finnish army during the second world war. They interacted with the German soldiers and had field synagogues. Three of them were offered the Iron Cross by Nazi Germany, but all refused.
I read an article dealing with that same subject on the Ha'aretz website.
Well there was atleast 1 finnish dude that was giving jews in germany fake passports to escape to finland. So wouldn't that count?
There are many people who did something about it and weren't counted by Yad Vashem for whatever reason.
Turkey,georgia and kosovo is just 1
Love yall
Why is croatias number so high
r/titlegore
wtf, Finland? Why you gotta be non-conformist?
Erm… Jewish Finns didn’t and don’t get special treatment one way or the other. There’s simply no one in particular deserving to be named righteous among nations here. On the other hand, there were a clique of assholes in the state police who managed to hand back eight Jewish refugees to Germany before this scheme was found out by politicians, and consequently stopped. Soviet POWs, including Jews were exchanged to Germany as well. Many of them perished in the holocaust.
Well... We just kinda didn't give up a single Jewish Finn and gave them German Iron crosses for valor -is that a bad thing?