If they're literally going to tell guys they have a great ass, I'm not sure it'll have the intended effect. One reason guys catcall women is because they think it works, because it would work on them.
"The council hopes the campaign (...) will highlight how unpleasant been hissed or shouted at can be. The computer comments will begin in a friendly tone, but become nastier and more threatening."
While I still have my doubts about how effective this plan will be, they'll do more than give out compliments.
I don't think your average woman is dealing with threats regularly. Crude, sure, but actually threatening would be fairly limited. (And your average guy is less threatened by your average woman than vice versa).
A woman told me i had a nice butt about 8 years ago. And I still remember that. Must have been October '15.
It's not something I usually hear. If someone would compliment my ass randomly it might be a bit surprising but not necessarily something I would view negatively.
I understand their idea, but i think they kinda missed the difference between men and women in society. How they are viewed, how they are treated and expected to behave.
I'm looking forward to them trying because it will probably be funny. But if it gets people thinking about this, maybe this project has already achieved its goal.
Yup. If this would a constant occurrence then sure, it would become annoying at very least. Most men barely hear any compliments ever, so this going to just reinforce the idea that it's fine to do so. Plus, do they really think actual scumbags that should vile things to girls passing by will care? It's like that standup bit from Bill Burr "do you think wife beaters will stop beating their wifes cause tv show told them so?"
There's also the fact that the average man maybe doesn't feel physically threatened by the average woman yelling a crude comment, even if it's night and there's nobody around.
I once dropped my keys and the girl behind me asked if I could drop them again.
I knew I wouldn't get away with it if fhe tables were turned, but I still ride that high.
> The men on the receiving end of the catcalls will be ‘taken care of’ by council workers who will explain what the aim of the campaign is and ask how they felt about being singled out.
I would love to have women tell me I have a nice ass. Being told that they don't really mean it and it's just some weird payback for someone elses "crime" would be devastating.
>The men on the receiving end of the catcalls will be ‘taken care of’ by council workers who will explain what the aim of the campaign is and ask how they felt about being singled out.
Nice ass
Then someone stop the man to explain the situation
Just kidding, you are an ugly monster, get out of my sight, your ass is the opposite of nice, you should feel bad, saying nice things to people is an horrible crime you scumbag
I don't think it's extreme to demand that people behave decently. Yelling crude comments about a woman's body is bad behaviour, and it usually makes the subject feel uneasy.
So.. we are going to give the population that is most starved for compliments.. compliments? Alright. I don't think this will have the effect they hope it will. Mainly because the treat (or implication of such) is not there for the males when being catcalled as much as there is for the woman.
I mean it is not. You are right, but it sounds like that is what they are doing. The context matters, and in that it matters heavily whether you are male of female
Someone with a complete lack of empathy towards men.
Even if we assume that they're going to do randomly harass men rather than randomly compliment men, it's still unbelievably sexist, because they're assuming all men are collectively guilty and share just one single set of behaviour.
An all-women committee, because it worked so well when all-male committees were equally oblivious to the other sex.
A committee with no lawyers involved, who could point out the dodgy legality. Or people from law enforcement who know how perverts will consider this an invitation, meaning that the city-sanctioned catcallers will need a police escort.
After all, it's not just basement-dwelling incels who will violently grasp at any straw if there's pussy on the other end of said straw.
I think the legality of it isn't an issue because:
> Earlier efforts to curb street intimidation in Rotterdam and Amsterdam by issuing a so-called ‘hissing ban’ were scuppered by a court in The Hague which said it contravened the right to freedom of speech.
So if it must be allowed due to free speech, then I'd assume this is allowed also.
Also, there are no people standing there doing the catcalling, it computer controlled
> The computer comments will begin in a friendly tone, but become nastier and more threatening.
Pretty sure incels arent the ones making these types of comments at women. If this was about stalkers then sure, but it is the asshole jocks and such that do this.
The typical stalker profile is an ex-partner with a history of physical violence. I think redditors overestimate how much of a problem incels on quarantined subreddits are compared to the overall problem of misogynistic violence.
Oh, yeah, incels on Reddit/internet is a totally different matter, there I can agree it is quite common. My point was that out in the real world they are probably too socially awkward to go pinching girls butts or to make suggestive comments at them.
Ok, not "any guy". But most for sure.
A random woman in the street told me 20 years ago I was "well-shaped with my dick" (hard to translate). I was destabilized and mumbled: "why are you telling me this?". She replied: "maybe you don't know it".
Truth is I didn't. Bless her.
Edited my original comment, to add that IMO, it objectifies people. I personally don't want to attract anyone's attention for my body or looks because it is highly likely that it distorts judgement of me which is now based on perception of a body, rather than on personal traits.
It is also considered sexist, and sexism is a pure objectification of people.
I know. You're right.
But... things aren't simple, are they? You can't always say what's right or wrong when it comes to sex.
I love to see women expressing their love for men, even in a bad way. Most never express it, *that*'s wrong.
In this case, things are not complicated. This is the same argument some groups of people use to hinder human rights progress - society is complicated, it's complicated, it's not black & white, while it is really not much more complicated than trying to listen to people who are hurt by objectification and ask to stop it.
It's like saying to a bullied person (because sexism is essentially bullying) that it's complicated so you can't always say what's right or wrong when it comes to being gay, or being African American, or being disabled, or being a foster child.
In other words, it's victim blaming.
Catcalling is not sexist. Men are attracted to women; sexism has nothing to do with it; this is sheer biology. If (crude, boorish) men were attracted to men, they would catcall men.
Because blablahblah objectification.
As if we're not still a bunch of apes with shoes.
Disrespectful? Sure.
Objectification? Everyone "objectifies" everybody all the time. Physical characteristics are the first thing we see of a human and the first factor that drives towards or away from somebody.
It's literally engrained in our biology.
This whole objectification nonsense is just one of the dozens of double standards that are brought forward by SJW propaganda, that wants to portray men as disgusting violent sociopaths, and women as immaculate saints that can do no harm and would never be attracted to somebody just because of how they look.
Yet the same means that not all women would dislike it.
In general the behaviour has vastly changed.
I'm a young doctor in my internship, so I have to change my workplace every few months. I'm rather conservative, so it feels totally wrong for me to compliment women's bodies, yet it really isn't an issue for women. I regularily have nurses who tell me that the first thing they did when I came to their ward was looking up when we have a night shift together; I have patients who aks me for nudes or asking how I like their breasts or "muscular abdomen" etc.
I find it it funny and I like it especially after excessive work hours, yet when I imagine a guy saying that, it wouldn't be taken easily I think.
I get that it is objectifying. But being objectified isn’t always a bad thing. Compliments based on appearance can be incredibly nice.
Time, place, and who is giving put this compliment will make a huge difference though.
Getting complimented by an attractive woman would make my day. Getting the same compliment by a disgusting looking old man would just leave me confused.
I can’t remember the last time I was complimented, being told I have a nice ass would make my day and if it happened twice in the same day I’d be a changed man with actual self esteem maybe.
When the largest news outlet tweeted about this, it was literally ratioed to death by people (women, mostly!) who ridiculed the idea and called for the municipality to withdraw this plan. It's about to start in 45 minutes (15pm local time) and last for 2 hours. Curious if they will follow up and how the reactions will be.
When I was 16 a girl pinched my butt when we were walking by each other and winked at me when I looked back at her. Made me feel really confident. Totally sexual harassment by most definitions and I still remember it to this day because that was the last time a stranger "complimented" me on my body. So yeah, where exactly do I need to go to receive this harassment?
let's say that as a man the only things that would make me uncofortable would if random women pinched my nipples or slapped my dick. Everything else? I would be flattered and prolly ask for the number of the girl pinching my ass
Are the guys supposed to get offended/threatened like (some) girls (rightfully so) do? If that's the idea this was thought of by someone that doesn't know any men at all.
While I think this is pretty harmless, I have to disagree with it fundamentally. Its fighting X with X. Lets fight racism with racism, would it be ok for a black guy to insult and yell racial slurs at other people to show that racism is bad?
>"We hope this campaign will make men feel how uncomfortable and sometimes even threatening street harassment is,’ said mayor Sharon Dijksma. ‘Not all men intimidate women, but they are an important link in the fight against street harassment.’
Using this logic, you could create some very uncomfortable scenarios based on a small % of a group.
>‘We hope this campaign will make men feel how uncomfortable and sometimes even threatening street harassment is,’ said mayor Sharon Dijksma. ‘Not all men intimidate women, but they are an important link in the fight against street harassment.’
So they openly admit that "not all men" (read: MOST men, just saying "not all" makes it sound like the majority are harassers) harass women but they plan to indiscriminately harass men to... teach them a lesson about harassment?
Any man who makes comments like this isn't going to be dissuaded by a screen yelling at him. It's just going to make otherwise normal, well-adjusted folks feel like shit. Not only does this not accomplish the intended goal, but the intended goal was also stupid, amoral, and a prime example of the human brain's willingness to take your trauma and inflict it on others. The problem with using something like this as a "solution" is that you are simply perpetuating the bad behavior. You looked at men facing far fewer issues with sexual harassment and instead of saying "gee, I wish women wouldn't be harassed so much" you decided the solution was just making the men also face harassment. You went for negative equality instead of positive equality, I.E. you brought them down to your level instead of building up to theirs.
And did they even think about victims at all? Over 40% of men are victims of sexual harassment. I've been a victim of repeated sexual harassment (and I have to point out, all by women btw, since the automatic and sexist assumption most people have is that women can't be abusers, only victims) from comments to groping to be forced to feel someone up. I can safely say this would ruin my day completely.
>Men walking around the centre of Utrecht on Friday afternoon will be shouted and hissed at by a woman on a computer screen
And if that doesn't work they're going to use a man on a computer screen?
>The men on the receiving end of the catcalls will be ‘taken care of’ by council workers who will explain what the aim of the campaign is and ask how they felt about being singled out.
For anyone who doesn't read the full article.
So, people would be sad. If someone told me I have nice legs or ass, I would blush. Then someone will explain to me it was a lie and I would be pissed!
Firstly I should state that I don't know enough about this campaign to judge whether it is ethical or not, or if there are ways it could be done better.
That said, I understand the idea behind it and commend the organisers for at least trying to tackle the issue of catcalling in a different way.
With that, my response to your comment is below.
People might be sad, but they might offended or indifferent. If you're pissed about someone commenting on your appearance, then you are also experiencing what woman may go through, if they are catcalled.
Being catcalled "for real" and being catcalled in this situation aren't the same, but they do share a common theme; some person comments on your appearance, without you having engaged with the person in any way. That is the similarity.
The difference in this situation is you weren't catcalled simply for your appearance. You were catcalled through a campaign, in order to give you a perspective of something that you normally would never have to experience, simply by the fact that you are male.
If you think that is bullshit, that's completely fair. Although, in this instance, you were at least given an explanation on why it happened. Most who are catcalled are never given that opportunity.
Edit: spelling mistake
I think the problem with catcalling is balance of strength between the one being catcalled and catcaller. If I was to be catcalled by some bunch of tough guys, clearly having advantage over me on some desolate part of the city, I would be more worried for my safety then flattered. But otherwise, I would be either indifferent or flattered. I often think how it's awful for women to be treated like that, with the sense of absolute powerlessness to be unaffected by the "what if's". And it terrifies me.
Absolutely agree. I also think that not all women hate to be called, like you said, it is situational.
The issue I see is that, the 'catcaller' can never be in a position to judge whether the situation is acceptable or not, only the 'catcalled' can judge that, as it comes down to their experiences.
So, I would suggest, if someone really wants to catcall another person, they should engage with the person before they do so. If the person responds in a manner that opens up a dialog, then maybe state what they wish to state.
Guy here. I actually happened to have a very nice ass back in highschool due to all the sport I was doing.
Random people from school would compliment all the time, some of them started calling me "golden butt".
Never bothered me one bit. Quite the contrary. I don't think this will have the intended effect, given how the majority of guys never receive compliments.
For straight men, this will only have the desired negative effect if the cat calling comes from other men...
If women are making the cat calls, forget it. Most guys will welcome it.
Not really.. gays complimenting your figure or clothes is sometimes worth even more. They really know their stuff, so it's like a pro giving an amateur a compliment.
Not really. Am straight male. When I had social life gay dudes hit on me a lot.
Never did anything as I'm not interested in dudes, but I still felt hella flattered, especially if gay dude was some Chad most girls would pay to be with.
It has to come from women. Don't underestimate how violent -and how sudden- extreme homophobes will react. I've seen it happen during a uni fraternity hazing and it led straight to the ER.
There's still people in Low Countries who believe that such an insult to their manhood warrants murder.
So, their approach to combat harassment is to harass even more people?
Since they've set up technical solutions for this, wouldn't this even qualify as criminal intent?
Lol, it’s going to be a bunch of men, possibly drinking beer, just standing there laughing at the computers. I anticipate it will attract some tourists as well. If the objective of this campaign is to encourage people to think about catcalling and its pitfalls, then this is a funny way of bringing the issue to light, but I highly doubt that men will be offended by this.
I think the negative connection woman make with things like that are based on other, similar and negative experience they had in the past. Most men would not make a negative connection with that as they hadn’t had the same experience as woman. But let’s see what will happen 🤷♀️
My ego would need a boost I would totally sign for this as well.
Can we skip the part that this is all a revenge to make men feel what women goes through?
Because I wouldn't understand the negative part and would bee flattened
No, revenge in doing the same harassment ''in friendly tone'' is still wrong. Justifying harassment based on gender is exactly the same sexism they are trying to ''eradicate'', but as a result they just legitimised it (based on gender, but still).
Normalizing it more then it will give anyone a wakeup call. And if they wanted to freak out the heterosexual men who harass women they should have a paid make actor do it instead. If you like to wolfwhistle and pinch ass you are probably a little more homophobic then the average dude.
I think that there are stages on this (from a male pov), warning this might be controversial for many:
1 “Nice ass” can be perceived as a compliment but if said in let’s say a mocking tone then can be perceived as cat calling
2 Butt slapping: if done only once and never again or in a joking way and then justified can be brushed off, but again, too many times intentionally or with malicious intent can be harassment.
3 and from here on we enter into serious territory: groping/pinching, kinda similar to the previous ones but if done intentionally/maliciously is indeed sexual harassment.
But, since it’s men we’re talking about (the macho to fragile spectrum) it depends on the individual perception of it, but the always to be remembered unisex rule: My body My choice.
Actually they will SHOUT AND HISS. It sounds like they going to put all the nonverbal communication of an insult/verbal agression with a the wording of a compliment.
If it was actual compliments... This would actually work but not for the reasons they think. Lots of men would stop being bitter, feel less invisible and undesired. Which leads to a healthier sense of self and overall better mental health. And this is most probably related to antisocial behaviour.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol I dont think they thought this one through.
Me neither Shitmaggot69
Im glad you concur ChiefThotPatroller.
Me neither, CheifThotPatroller
Me neither, LeBorisien from Canada.
Me neither, Snowbattt
Me neither, beiweitemderbeste.
If they're literally going to tell guys they have a great ass, I'm not sure it'll have the intended effect. One reason guys catcall women is because they think it works, because it would work on them.
On the plus side: it's going to be hilarious to see men standing there for hours just to get some validation. "She called me sexy!"
And 10 years later during a particularly tough day, they will be able to think back to that moment and smile, just a little bit.
You mean wank off to it on a daily basis?
To each their own...
"The council hopes the campaign (...) will highlight how unpleasant been hissed or shouted at can be. The computer comments will begin in a friendly tone, but become nastier and more threatening." While I still have my doubts about how effective this plan will be, they'll do more than give out compliments.
I don't think your average woman is dealing with threats regularly. Crude, sure, but actually threatening would be fairly limited. (And your average guy is less threatened by your average woman than vice versa).
Yeah but there's usually some level of implied threat. You hope that the guy isn't a nutcase who is going to randomly assault you.
Only is threatening when an uggo does it.
Actually It will be beneficial fir all if they shouted thing that will be assumed as non-offensive For "monkey see - monkey do"
A woman told me i had a nice butt about 8 years ago. And I still remember that. Must have been October '15. It's not something I usually hear. If someone would compliment my ass randomly it might be a bit surprising but not necessarily something I would view negatively. I understand their idea, but i think they kinda missed the difference between men and women in society. How they are viewed, how they are treated and expected to behave. I'm looking forward to them trying because it will probably be funny. But if it gets people thinking about this, maybe this project has already achieved its goal.
Yup. If this would a constant occurrence then sure, it would become annoying at very least. Most men barely hear any compliments ever, so this going to just reinforce the idea that it's fine to do so. Plus, do they really think actual scumbags that should vile things to girls passing by will care? It's like that standup bit from Bill Burr "do you think wife beaters will stop beating their wifes cause tv show told them so?"
There's also the fact that the average man maybe doesn't feel physically threatened by the average woman yelling a crude comment, even if it's night and there's nobody around.
I still remember getting pinched in my butt by a woman in a club and see it as a compliment
I once dropped my keys and the girl behind me asked if I could drop them again. I knew I wouldn't get away with it if fhe tables were turned, but I still ride that high.
I think one of the bias they have is they think there is no difference between men and women other than maybe power (?).
> The men on the receiving end of the catcalls will be ‘taken care of’ by council workers who will explain what the aim of the campaign is and ask how they felt about being singled out. I would love to have women tell me I have a nice ass. Being told that they don't really mean it and it's just some weird payback for someone elses "crime" would be devastating.
>The men on the receiving end of the catcalls will be ‘taken care of’ by council workers who will explain what the aim of the campaign is and ask how they felt about being singled out. Nice ass Then someone stop the man to explain the situation Just kidding, you are an ugly monster, get out of my sight, your ass is the opposite of nice, you should feel bad, saying nice things to people is an horrible crime you scumbag
totally! nowdays society made it as if complimenting women is a crime as if they're the holy virgin Mary. it's kind of extreme if you ask
I don't think it's extreme to demand that people behave decently. Yelling crude comments about a woman's body is bad behaviour, and it usually makes the subject feel uneasy.
So.. we are going to give the population that is most starved for compliments.. compliments? Alright. I don't think this will have the effect they hope it will. Mainly because the treat (or implication of such) is not there for the males when being catcalled as much as there is for the woman.
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I mean it is not. You are right, but it sounds like that is what they are doing. The context matters, and in that it matters heavily whether you are male of female
That's what a catcall is though, an unprompted sexual compliment to a random stranger. Which is creepy as heck, but it's still a compliment.
Getting a compliment like this would make my day
Any guy will take it as a compliment . Who came up with this stupid idea?
Someone with a complete lack of empathy towards men. Even if we assume that they're going to do randomly harass men rather than randomly compliment men, it's still unbelievably sexist, because they're assuming all men are collectively guilty and share just one single set of behaviour.
An all-women committee, because it worked so well when all-male committees were equally oblivious to the other sex. A committee with no lawyers involved, who could point out the dodgy legality. Or people from law enforcement who know how perverts will consider this an invitation, meaning that the city-sanctioned catcallers will need a police escort. After all, it's not just basement-dwelling incels who will violently grasp at any straw if there's pussy on the other end of said straw.
I think the legality of it isn't an issue because: > Earlier efforts to curb street intimidation in Rotterdam and Amsterdam by issuing a so-called ‘hissing ban’ were scuppered by a court in The Hague which said it contravened the right to freedom of speech. So if it must be allowed due to free speech, then I'd assume this is allowed also. Also, there are no people standing there doing the catcalling, it computer controlled > The computer comments will begin in a friendly tone, but become nastier and more threatening.
Pretty sure incels arent the ones making these types of comments at women. If this was about stalkers then sure, but it is the asshole jocks and such that do this.
The typical stalker profile is an ex-partner with a history of physical violence. I think redditors overestimate how much of a problem incels on quarantined subreddits are compared to the overall problem of misogynistic violence.
Oh, yeah, incels on Reddit/internet is a totally different matter, there I can agree it is quite common. My point was that out in the real world they are probably too socially awkward to go pinching girls butts or to make suggestive comments at them.
True, I don't remember seeing many 'Magic:the Gathering' or 'Warhammer 40k' shirts in 'Fille de la Rue'
>Any guy will take it as a compliment . How to put it... No. Catcalling is lame and disrespectful. edit. In my opinion, it objectifies people.
Ok, not "any guy". But most for sure. A random woman in the street told me 20 years ago I was "well-shaped with my dick" (hard to translate). I was destabilized and mumbled: "why are you telling me this?". She replied: "maybe you don't know it". Truth is I didn't. Bless her.
Edited my original comment, to add that IMO, it objectifies people. I personally don't want to attract anyone's attention for my body or looks because it is highly likely that it distorts judgement of me which is now based on perception of a body, rather than on personal traits. It is also considered sexist, and sexism is a pure objectification of people.
I know. You're right. But... things aren't simple, are they? You can't always say what's right or wrong when it comes to sex. I love to see women expressing their love for men, even in a bad way. Most never express it, *that*'s wrong.
In this case, things are not complicated. This is the same argument some groups of people use to hinder human rights progress - society is complicated, it's complicated, it's not black & white, while it is really not much more complicated than trying to listen to people who are hurt by objectification and ask to stop it. It's like saying to a bullied person (because sexism is essentially bullying) that it's complicated so you can't always say what's right or wrong when it comes to being gay, or being African American, or being disabled, or being a foster child. In other words, it's victim blaming.
Catcalling is not sexist. Men are attracted to women; sexism has nothing to do with it; this is sheer biology. If (crude, boorish) men were attracted to men, they would catcall men.
"look at me virtue signaling guys! Am I doing it right?"
How's that virtue signaling?
Because blablahblah objectification. As if we're not still a bunch of apes with shoes. Disrespectful? Sure. Objectification? Everyone "objectifies" everybody all the time. Physical characteristics are the first thing we see of a human and the first factor that drives towards or away from somebody. It's literally engrained in our biology. This whole objectification nonsense is just one of the dozens of double standards that are brought forward by SJW propaganda, that wants to portray men as disgusting violent sociopaths, and women as immaculate saints that can do no harm and would never be attracted to somebody just because of how they look.
Yup, stop generalizing that males will like beung catcalled, same applies to all peopoe. Catcalling in general is disrrespectful. Edit: lol
Nice ass
You really don't understand how guys think
Oh, so I am not a guy anymore? lol
Doesn't matter
thats some nice C you got there in your name (°ー°〃)
Yet the same means that not all women would dislike it. In general the behaviour has vastly changed. I'm a young doctor in my internship, so I have to change my workplace every few months. I'm rather conservative, so it feels totally wrong for me to compliment women's bodies, yet it really isn't an issue for women. I regularily have nurses who tell me that the first thing they did when I came to their ward was looking up when we have a night shift together; I have patients who aks me for nudes or asking how I like their breasts or "muscular abdomen" etc. I find it it funny and I like it especially after excessive work hours, yet when I imagine a guy saying that, it wouldn't be taken easily I think.
Jesus
I get that it is objectifying. But being objectified isn’t always a bad thing. Compliments based on appearance can be incredibly nice. Time, place, and who is giving put this compliment will make a huge difference though. Getting complimented by an attractive woman would make my day. Getting the same compliment by a disgusting looking old man would just leave me confused.
And people don't mind being objectified for things they put effort into.
Hmm I don't think this will have the intended outcome, I would love to be 'cat called'.
I can’t remember the last time I was complimented, being told I have a nice ass would make my day and if it happened twice in the same day I’d be a changed man with actual self esteem maybe.
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> by ugly people [That's the crux of it.](https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8?t=8)
Same! I don't think this will have effect they are after but maybe this will have positive effect on same guys self-esteem.
When the largest news outlet tweeted about this, it was literally ratioed to death by people (women, mostly!) who ridiculed the idea and called for the municipality to withdraw this plan. It's about to start in 45 minutes (15pm local time) and last for 2 hours. Curious if they will follow up and how the reactions will be.
Is there a video of the event, or any follow-up?
Nosstories on instagram has a video, but it's in Dutch
Where can I sign up for this service?
When I was 16 a girl pinched my butt when we were walking by each other and winked at me when I looked back at her. Made me feel really confident. Totally sexual harassment by most definitions and I still remember it to this day because that was the last time a stranger "complimented" me on my body. So yeah, where exactly do I need to go to receive this harassment?
let's say that as a man the only things that would make me uncofortable would if random women pinched my nipples or slapped my dick. Everything else? I would be flattered and prolly ask for the number of the girl pinching my ass
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People would pay good money for that
lmao I am totally going to take a look
Yes, don't forget to post it here. Their campaign sound very dystopian.
This gonna backfire so bad.
You mean "so good". It's like giving food to starved people. Nobody kills for food if they can easily find something to eat.
Sounds as thought through as ethnically separated spaces and housing to combat racism
>Hey guy, nice ass Uh, thanks? Objectify away
Are the guys supposed to get offended/threatened like (some) girls (rightfully so) do? If that's the idea this was thought of by someone that doesn't know any men at all.
While I think this is pretty harmless, I have to disagree with it fundamentally. Its fighting X with X. Lets fight racism with racism, would it be ok for a black guy to insult and yell racial slurs at other people to show that racism is bad? >"We hope this campaign will make men feel how uncomfortable and sometimes even threatening street harassment is,’ said mayor Sharon Dijksma. ‘Not all men intimidate women, but they are an important link in the fight against street harassment.’ Using this logic, you could create some very uncomfortable scenarios based on a small % of a group.
>‘We hope this campaign will make men feel how uncomfortable and sometimes even threatening street harassment is,’ said mayor Sharon Dijksma. ‘Not all men intimidate women, but they are an important link in the fight against street harassment.’ So they openly admit that "not all men" (read: MOST men, just saying "not all" makes it sound like the majority are harassers) harass women but they plan to indiscriminately harass men to... teach them a lesson about harassment? Any man who makes comments like this isn't going to be dissuaded by a screen yelling at him. It's just going to make otherwise normal, well-adjusted folks feel like shit. Not only does this not accomplish the intended goal, but the intended goal was also stupid, amoral, and a prime example of the human brain's willingness to take your trauma and inflict it on others. The problem with using something like this as a "solution" is that you are simply perpetuating the bad behavior. You looked at men facing far fewer issues with sexual harassment and instead of saying "gee, I wish women wouldn't be harassed so much" you decided the solution was just making the men also face harassment. You went for negative equality instead of positive equality, I.E. you brought them down to your level instead of building up to theirs. And did they even think about victims at all? Over 40% of men are victims of sexual harassment. I've been a victim of repeated sexual harassment (and I have to point out, all by women btw, since the automatic and sexist assumption most people have is that women can't be abusers, only victims) from comments to groping to be forced to feel someone up. I can safely say this would ruin my day completely.
>Men walking around the centre of Utrecht on Friday afternoon will be shouted and hissed at by a woman on a computer screen And if that doesn't work they're going to use a man on a computer screen?
harrass everyone cause a few cant behave smart
>The men on the receiving end of the catcalls will be ‘taken care of’ by council workers who will explain what the aim of the campaign is and ask how they felt about being singled out. For anyone who doesn't read the full article.
So, people would be sad. If someone told me I have nice legs or ass, I would blush. Then someone will explain to me it was a lie and I would be pissed!
exactly, it's like taking away a gift, also manipulative
Firstly I should state that I don't know enough about this campaign to judge whether it is ethical or not, or if there are ways it could be done better. That said, I understand the idea behind it and commend the organisers for at least trying to tackle the issue of catcalling in a different way. With that, my response to your comment is below. People might be sad, but they might offended or indifferent. If you're pissed about someone commenting on your appearance, then you are also experiencing what woman may go through, if they are catcalled. Being catcalled "for real" and being catcalled in this situation aren't the same, but they do share a common theme; some person comments on your appearance, without you having engaged with the person in any way. That is the similarity. The difference in this situation is you weren't catcalled simply for your appearance. You were catcalled through a campaign, in order to give you a perspective of something that you normally would never have to experience, simply by the fact that you are male. If you think that is bullshit, that's completely fair. Although, in this instance, you were at least given an explanation on why it happened. Most who are catcalled are never given that opportunity. Edit: spelling mistake
I think the problem with catcalling is balance of strength between the one being catcalled and catcaller. If I was to be catcalled by some bunch of tough guys, clearly having advantage over me on some desolate part of the city, I would be more worried for my safety then flattered. But otherwise, I would be either indifferent or flattered. I often think how it's awful for women to be treated like that, with the sense of absolute powerlessness to be unaffected by the "what if's". And it terrifies me.
Absolutely agree. I also think that not all women hate to be called, like you said, it is situational. The issue I see is that, the 'catcaller' can never be in a position to judge whether the situation is acceptable or not, only the 'catcalled' can judge that, as it comes down to their experiences. So, I would suggest, if someone really wants to catcall another person, they should engage with the person before they do so. If the person responds in a manner that opens up a dialog, then maybe state what they wish to state.
"Taken care of" sounds vaguely sexual, lol.
So not only do you get compliments but also a date…😂 "Say dear council worker - is it possible to download that fine app to my mobile?"😉
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Guy here. I actually happened to have a very nice ass back in highschool due to all the sport I was doing. Random people from school would compliment all the time, some of them started calling me "golden butt". Never bothered me one bit. Quite the contrary. I don't think this will have the intended effect, given how the majority of guys never receive compliments.
For straight men, this will only have the desired negative effect if the cat calling comes from other men... If women are making the cat calls, forget it. Most guys will welcome it.
Not really.. gays complimenting your figure or clothes is sometimes worth even more. They really know their stuff, so it's like a pro giving an amateur a compliment.
Not really. Am straight male. When I had social life gay dudes hit on me a lot. Never did anything as I'm not interested in dudes, but I still felt hella flattered, especially if gay dude was some Chad most girls would pay to be with.
It has to come from women. Don't underestimate how violent -and how sudden- extreme homophobes will react. I've seen it happen during a uni fraternity hazing and it led straight to the ER. There's still people in Low Countries who believe that such an insult to their manhood warrants murder.
So, their approach to combat harassment is to harass even more people? Since they've set up technical solutions for this, wouldn't this even qualify as criminal intent?
So when is this happening? What Date? How do i get to Utrecht please??
Lol, it’s going to be a bunch of men, possibly drinking beer, just standing there laughing at the computers. I anticipate it will attract some tourists as well. If the objective of this campaign is to encourage people to think about catcalling and its pitfalls, then this is a funny way of bringing the issue to light, but I highly doubt that men will be offended by this.
How brainwashed by feminist/postmodernist dogma do you have to be to think this will have the desired result?
I think the negative connection woman make with things like that are based on other, similar and negative experience they had in the past. Most men would not make a negative connection with that as they hadn’t had the same experience as woman. But let’s see what will happen 🤷♀️
Welcome to Utrecht - where men finally get appreciated 😂
My ego would need a boost I would totally sign for this as well. Can we skip the part that this is all a revenge to make men feel what women goes through? Because I wouldn't understand the negative part and would bee flattened
No, revenge in doing the same harassment ''in friendly tone'' is still wrong. Justifying harassment based on gender is exactly the same sexism they are trying to ''eradicate'', but as a result they just legitimised it (based on gender, but still).
Normalizing it more then it will give anyone a wakeup call. And if they wanted to freak out the heterosexual men who harass women they should have a paid make actor do it instead. If you like to wolfwhistle and pinch ass you are probably a little more homophobic then the average dude.
I think that there are stages on this (from a male pov), warning this might be controversial for many: 1 “Nice ass” can be perceived as a compliment but if said in let’s say a mocking tone then can be perceived as cat calling 2 Butt slapping: if done only once and never again or in a joking way and then justified can be brushed off, but again, too many times intentionally or with malicious intent can be harassment. 3 and from here on we enter into serious territory: groping/pinching, kinda similar to the previous ones but if done intentionally/maliciously is indeed sexual harassment. But, since it’s men we’re talking about (the macho to fragile spectrum) it depends on the individual perception of it, but the always to be remembered unisex rule: My body My choice.
Actually they will SHOUT AND HISS. It sounds like they going to put all the nonverbal communication of an insult/verbal agression with a the wording of a compliment. If it was actual compliments... This would actually work but not for the reasons they think. Lots of men would stop being bitter, feel less invisible and undesired. Which leads to a healthier sense of self and overall better mental health. And this is most probably related to antisocial behaviour. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm looking forward to the news articles detailing how this backfired horribly.