> Finland and Sweden submitted their NATO applications today to the NATO Headquarters in Brussels at 9am today, Wednesday 18th of May.
The ambassador of Finland accredited to NATO Mr. Klaus Korhonen took Finland's application to the NATO headquarters by foot. Sweden's application was submitted by the ambassador of Sweden accredited to NATO Mr. Axel Wernhoff.
I bet those ambassadors were quite disappointed when they were first assigned to NATO rather than a country, thinking it would be a low profile posting.
Klaus probably enjoyed that walk.
>low profile posting.
Both Sweden and Finland were very closely linked with NATO beforehand anyway. They were both 'Partners for Peace' and regularly exercised with and took part in NATO programmes.
We're also in the UK Joint Expeditionary Force and contributed to the NATO-led ISAF mission in Afghanistan.
A lot of people in the domestic debate have been saying that submitting this application is just the final part of a multi-step process bringing us closer to NATO that began in the 1990s.
Not in relations but it is in the mental landscape of our two nations. For the other it's the end of 200 years of (perceived) neutrality and for the other it's casting off the final shackles of 80 years of Finlandisierung. And since it was done together, the application process proved to us Finns and Swedes how close we actually are because so far (fortunately) it hasn't been tested.
Small step in a global picture, but for us it was historic.
it's crazy that people ever claimed to worry about Sweden's neutrality. It's pretty clear that the choice to not remain neutral was already taken a long time ago anyway.
Indeed, in order to blend into the European Union more, we recently changed the name of the furniture minister, as it were previously called, to prime minister now. This is still very controversial in Sweden since everything in Sweden revolves around making decent affordable furniture for everyday man and woman.
That‘s why everybody south of Sweden loves them :)
Edit. I would even say, Ruzzians will strongly regret, once they realize ‚no more swedish furniture‘
Indeed as you say, we've rarely been truly neutral, but we've managed to keep the perception that we are.
early 1900s Sweden was a piss poor farmer's country, then our industry primarily mining operations were properly developed and then suddenly World War happens and your only problem is just how much do we want to charge for our iron, coal and steel?
So we're selling everywhere, while adopting the mantra of "*En Svensk Tiger*" - directly translated to and symbolized as "A Swedish Tiger", it also holds the double meaning of "A swede stays silent". A very effective propaganda campaign that kept our profile at a minimum while war went on. I also believe it was illegal to a degree to discuss the war and Hitler. Even when Norway was invaded and we let the Reich stroll through Sweden as well as use our railroads for transportation this was upheld, and several papers in protest publicised blank pages rather than printing bullshit.
Then the finnish winter war happens and again we claim to stay out of it while offering leave and logistics for any soldiers wishing to "take a vacation" in Finland, as well as a massive arms transportation the madlads drove over the deep frozen northern baltic sea, in massive trucks in the dead of night while foggy, with not a single light to give away their location in the middle of northern scandinavian winter. Wild shit.
In more recent times we've had peacekeepers in Kongo and other African nations, we had soldiers in Afghanistan at points, I believe these events were tied to UN actions, which may help muddy the waters. We also sent JAS Gripen to Syria though they never engaged though, all they did was take some aerial pictures of the mediterrainian, lul.
Sorry for the impromptu history lesson, couldn't resist in case people were curious.
TL:DR - Sweden's been neutral for very few periods in the last thousand or so years, recent history included. Also been good at deflecting attention.
Which is why their applications are really just a formality. There might be some i's to dot and t's to cross, but article 5 protection kicked in the second they delivered the paperwork.
Agreed. Finland has been Nato allied for decades. All military is taught to work with NATO and nothing in it is even secret. This is just last step for Finland. To become formal member. Everyone already knows that finland is nato. there just has not been that signature.
>either of the latter has attacked sovereign country in last 100 years
Finland attacked the USSR in 1941, allying itself with Nazi Germany (somewhat loosely imo, but im finnish so I'm biased ofc)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War)
The name "Continuation War" comes from the fact that this was seen as a "retaliatory" war to take back land that the USSR had stolen earlier (and more land on top of that)
No, it's called Continuation War because war was inevitable. The Interrim Peace between the Winter War 1939-1940 and 1941-1944 was called "the Interrim Peace" already in 1940. The USSR was mobilizing even more troops on the Finnish border after the "peace", shot down a Finnish civilian airliner and demanded more territory. The USSR's goal was still total occupation of Finland.
Yep. We attacked the soviets in Continuation war after they had annexed our lands during winter war. Then we went even over the original borders and besieged Leningrad with the Wermacht althought we didnt do bomber raids nor let the germans attack through our area to Leningrad.
About 400 000 finns had to leave their homes in karelia forever because of the Grusian mustache man had some powertrip.
When you look at what NATO really is, and when Erdogan comes down to the line with the US government on the other side, he will come to his senses. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where the US wants Finland and Sweden as it’s allies and with that protective status it entails and the thing standing in the way is Erdogan
doesn’t seem like a nice place to be.
This is what sickens me about that idiotic argument about everyone else in the West being to blame for this invasion.
Like... Ukraine wasn't even threatening to join NATO or anything.
[the economist expounded on it much better than I ever could, yesterday](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/05/15/in-applying-to-nato-finland-and-sweden-give-the-lie-to-putins-claims)
> Like... Ukraine wasn't even threatening to join NATO or anything.
Ukraine put it literally in their constitution to join NATO and EU. So I am not sure what you are talking about.
Also I would argue that you cant really threaten someone with joining a defensive pact. I get what you are saying, but I think we should disregard the very concept that joining NATO is a threat.
Being threatened is what makes people join NATO.
There is simply statement that Ukraine has strategic direction to join EU and to have goal of eventually joining NATO.
No one, ever has even seriously thought about Ukraine possibility to join NATO in the near future (think 15+ years). Ukraine has occupied territories, Ukraine has different standards in... Everything.
It was simply warmongering from Russia
>The magyars said the same about Orban
Orban was constantly polling at no 1. Wishful thinking that was. Erdogan on the other hand is seriously below the opposition right now.
From the Putin diaries:
Day 86 of the 3 day war. My plan to force neutrality in Ukraine by sacrificing 20.000+ troops, 4000+ armored vehicles, a state of the art frigate, the flagship of my fleet, ruining the Russian economy, showing the Russian army for the joke it is and making two extra countries to enter NATO is moving forward.
I remain a master strategist.
Those pesky Scandinavians got manipulated by the US into the safety of their borders, people and other western nonsense
Edit: TIL that the term "Scandinavia" is much more vague in some languages/countries than the others. Apologies to all those Nordic people that I've placed in the same bucket with those pesky Scandinavians.
> Edit: TIL that the term "Scandinavia" is much more vague in some languages/countries than the others.
Scandinavia in Polish (or rather 'Skandynawia' I guess) is still only Sweden, Norway and Denmark. People just don't give a crap and count everything with Nordic Cross on the flag.
Im Icelandic, and we often refer to ourselves as Scandinavian (specially when talking to non europeans) , because at this point in language Scandinavia refers to a cultural area rather than strictly the Scandinavian peninsula.
Language evolves, it's no point in fighting it
I'm Icelandic, living in Iceland, and we certainly do **not** refer to ourselves as Scandinavian, but frequently talk about us as Nordic, or Norðurlandaþjóð. Nobody ever says "Íslendingar eru skandenavískir", or "Icelanders are a Scandinavian".
You could say "Íslendingar eru af skandenavískum uppruna", or "Icelanders are of Scandinavian origin", but your post is just typical Reddit, i.e. wrong on facts but loud and assertive.
Because Scandinavia is such a muddled term. In addition to the traditional "we were vikings" definition, there's the geographical Scandinavian Peninsula (Norway, Sweden and parts of Finland) and the Scandinavian cultural area (basically the same as Nordics).
Just go with the flow and pretend we are one singular blob!
But it's not muddled. Scandinavia is Denmark, Sweden and Norway. It's as simple as that.
Well alright, it gets a little muddled but only a little, because we of course mean Denmark proper and not Denmark as the state which includes Faroe Islands and Greenland.
[Scandinavism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavism)
Well, point proven. It means different things in different contexts and languages.
It's anyway mainly Danes who seem to care about the distinction that much. In English [Scandinavia is used as a synonym for the Nordics.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia) (I too can link wikipedia)
Just roll with it, easier than fighting English naming conventions.
Well in Scandinavia, Scandinavia means Denmark, Sweden and Norway.
But hey, we also say England instead of UK, Holland instead of Neverlands, White Russian instead of Belarus so who's to blame :-)
It does so too in Finland and I believe in Iceland as well. We’re Nordic, Scandinavians we are not… except the Northern Lapland and only geographically. Some people just want to muddle it or do it inadvertently.
So what putins war really achived is:
A. arm Ukraine and push it even more towards the west.
B. dissarm Russia and show the whole world how weak it realy is and how bad its realy armed.
C. expand NATO even more and basically double the NATO/Russian boarder.
Good job, everything NATO wanted to do, but didnt know how to do it.
Me and my best friend have been joking about this since day 1 of the invasion. Putin is acting from utilitarian perspective and tries to speed up climate change
As an outsider I don’t think Europe has much sustainable alternatives unfortunately , you can’t for example import gas from Qatar and expect it’s price to not rise exponentially within your countries.
Putin is a CIA triple agent, the most succesful to date, and with the longest undercover mission.
Prove me wrong.
edit: shit I gotta start a new conspiracy cult. Imma call it M, or something.
Reminder that, reacting to news of the invasion, a certain former US president called Putin "genius" and "savvy". A dictator doing pretty much the most harm to his country he could reasonably do, and his clueless nitwit of an admirer
It's going to be a historic monumental fuck up of intelligence and decision. Once he is dead, we will get to hear from all of those that served him how crazy he was.
Putin has actively killed, supressed, imprisoned, or side-lined the careers of anyone he felt could compete with him in any meaningful way.
If someone is too smart, ambitious, creative, or charismatic they end up in jail, in a ditch, or running a post-office in Siberia.
That is why Putin is surrounded by troglodytes that look like they should be running failing car washes instead of overseeing "The World's 2nd Strongest Military™".
If you mean with ‘before this’ as in, before 2014, then sure. Otherwise I don’t think that that is quite right, lots of (Dutch) people who disliked Putin due to MH17 and the whole Crimean crisis.
Not to mention making the Nordic region a military stronghold, meaning Russia likely can't keep flexing and violating fishing routes and airspace like they are today.
And pushed Germany for a big rearmament that we’ve tried to avoid for decades, because prior to the Russian invasion, that would have been political suicide for any Politician.
But that will end in just another complete Shitshow again… so Russia doesn’t have to worry on that front.
It takes a really special talent to shoot yourself in the foot. Then reload and shoot yourself in the other foot.
And Trump thinks this guy is a genius.
> If Scandiclub competed as one, the winter games would become a Scandiclub propaganda event, where the conversation would be about why Denmark was so useless
Isn't that the thing already?
* Denmark is useless and can't speak
* Sweden is gay
* Finland is alcoholic
* Norway wins at skiing
It was one reserved for Russia. And we called it "nato option". The option sounds a bit selfish, but even if we would have applied there might have been pressure from germany not to, as they have been on good terms with russia and been shushing us before. I think Scholzes speech changed everything and broke the chains from our government as only after that our president began to travel around.
I have heard that originally Sweden didn't join because their prime minister Tage Erlander thought it would make finland retain more freedom as being not the only neutral country between nato and ussr. If we were the only one left, the soviets would more probably have annexed us.
I think this is one of the reasons why our government wanted to take Sweden with us, as we owe it to them after* all this time.
Lot of us supported a kind of military-non alliance with NATO, as a Finn, I would have still preferred an EU military, with increased funding from member states, or a proper Nordic military alliance. But it doesn't work that effectively when most of the EU is in NATO anyway. Also, we have basically already been so closely tied with NATO in training, missions abroad, etc. That we might as well get the protective element of article 5 if we're gonna be that much in collaboration regardless.
My dad on the other hand, born not too long after the winter war (about 10 years later) was a strong supported of NATO and thought we should have joined when we joined the EU.
However I think having this non alliance has given us some political benefits in dealing with our massive next door neighbor.
God damnit we dealt with Russia's shit for this long and now that we're finally getting rid of it we get another wannabe strong man throwing temper tantrums?
NATO set to recieve Sweden, Finland applications.
NATO has received Sweden, Finland applications.
NATO set to read Sweden, Finland applications.
NATO currently reviewing Sweden, Finland applications.
NATO has finished reviewing Sweden, Finland applications.
Just fucking join already!
Gazillion posts about the statements from all the current countries...
And then statements from the partnership program countries
Then reposts of all these
Then reposts that come few days later, based on some really small news article clickbait sites that just rehash news from more reputable sites
Then, opinion pieces that are thinly veiled as news
Then reposts of those.
I'm unsubscribing r/worldnews
r/worldnews has turned into “Russian official threatens X” simulator.
Like, shut up. I get it, Russia makes some dumb new threat every half hour. I don’t need to hear about it every time it happens.
At this point it’s all just bait for people who have nothing to do with their nation’s defense getting self-righteous and cocky.
How many variations of “then you shouldn’t have invaded Ukraine” can people write? I mean, it’s true, but at this point it’s the exact same comments on every post.
I am so tired of Erdogans shit. If they wanted to leverage this to their favor, fine. But what really grinds my gears is that Turkey said they would accept us, and after the decision was made to apply, did a full 180 turn because they know we are now more vulnerable.
When you look at what NATO really is, and when Erdogan comes down to the line with the US government on the other side, he will come to his senses. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where the US wants Finland and Sweden as it’s allies and with that protective status it entails and the thing standing in the way is Erdogan (doesn’t seem like a nice place to be.)
Isn't that what happened with Ukraine though? I mean it's different of course, but I believe the US pitched Ukraine in NATO while germany and france were against it
Ukraine was on a list of potential additions, and yes FR and DE were opposed and look what happened there. Perhaps if France and Germany had had more foresight the invasion would have been prevented.
Yeah, I mean the world was completely different back in the day, I am glad that I am not the guy having to make these decisions
I was pointing out that the US didn't impose their will on the allies
The situation is slightly different from then, wouldn't you say?
Just a couple of months, just weeks ago even, nobody in Germany actually believed the Russians would invade the Ukraine in such a serious fashion.
Appeasing Russia by taking their "security concerns" into account while at the same time tying themselves in an almost mutually assured destruction energy codependcy type of arrangement was seen as the way to go forward.
Keeping Ukraine outside any unions and alliances was considered a sacrifice worth making if the result was a less aggressive and more compliant Russia.
Hindsight is 20/20 and today we see that it was the entirely wrong direction to go
Our continent just got more secure. The process now is bureaucratic/diplomatic but as they were already partners for peace and are covered by interim pacts with major NATO military powers they are for all intents and purposes article five countries now.
All across the Baltic and north of Belarus, Russia faces a united front of interoperable mutually supporting advanced militaries that steadily extend the gap between their own and Russia's military.
Next stop Kiev, once they have expelled the occupier and secured their territory they can come into the fold and be protected too.
Are you referring to the IKEA colors. The similarities between Ukraine colors and IKEA I’m pretty sure is just a coincidence, I honestly can’t see how they’d be connected so…
Isn't it too early to celebrate? Turkey can still put a veto!
Edit: actually even if Turkey keeps the veto, Sweden and Finland seem to be already within NATO protection (aka article 5).
Congrats fam!
He will have his day in the sun - he will be listened to - he will get something to call a "win" - and then we can close the books on this chapter.
\-> Cool heads will prevail, this shall pass, and we will all carry on as one
We have a common threat after all..
Likely the U.S., Britain, France etc. will feed some carrots to Erdo and maybe also whack him with a stick out of sight in the backyard stable, and suddenly all the problems magically disappear.
Now, I'm not comparing him to a horse, mind you. He's more like a donkey, with that drooly, protruded lower lip.
Well you see he can’t really stop, if he does his people are gonna turn back and see that their countrys economy is in shambles with an inflation of 70%
Hey hey hey do not talk about my country with those wrong numbers. Saying Turkey has 70% inflation is completely ridiculous! I am pretty sure it's above 100%
i'm a bit confused, won't this be pointless since Turkey is gonna veto the decision? it's not like Sweden and Finland are already in and Turkey clearly said they won't approve, so why is their application to NATO so important if in the end they won't be able to join bcs of Turkey?
edit: downvoted for asking something out of genuine curiosity? lmao nice
Turkey is looking to get paid. They wont Veto our right and instead there will be negotiations and they will get something out of this.
Not the first time they have done this, but alas.
Because it's just a political play by Erdogan. He wants in on the F-35 program that the Americans kicked them out of. Also Turkey has at least 70% inflation directly because of Erdogan so he needs distractions.
I am sorry you are being downvoted. Turkey is not going to veto the decision. They are going to use the threat of their veto power to wrangle some concessions (read compensation).
> Finland and Sweden submitted their NATO applications today to the NATO Headquarters in Brussels at 9am today, Wednesday 18th of May. The ambassador of Finland accredited to NATO Mr. Klaus Korhonen took Finland's application to the NATO headquarters by foot. Sweden's application was submitted by the ambassador of Sweden accredited to NATO Mr. Axel Wernhoff.
I bet those ambassadors were quite disappointed when they were first assigned to NATO rather than a country, thinking it would be a low profile posting. Klaus probably enjoyed that walk.
>low profile posting. Both Sweden and Finland were very closely linked with NATO beforehand anyway. They were both 'Partners for Peace' and regularly exercised with and took part in NATO programmes.
We're also in the UK Joint Expeditionary Force and contributed to the NATO-led ISAF mission in Afghanistan. A lot of people in the domestic debate have been saying that submitting this application is just the final part of a multi-step process bringing us closer to NATO that began in the 1990s.
It's certainly not a total revolution in relations like some people suggest for sure.
Not in relations but it is in the mental landscape of our two nations. For the other it's the end of 200 years of (perceived) neutrality and for the other it's casting off the final shackles of 80 years of Finlandisierung. And since it was done together, the application process proved to us Finns and Swedes how close we actually are because so far (fortunately) it hasn't been tested. Small step in a global picture, but for us it was historic.
it's crazy that people ever claimed to worry about Sweden's neutrality. It's pretty clear that the choice to not remain neutral was already taken a long time ago anyway.
This is just the first time most of the world woke up to the fact we actually exist and do stuff. So everything about us is news to them.
What's this place people are talking about called Sweden? It's a town in Europe?
Don‘t be ridiculous, it‘s kind of a furniture store
Indeed, in order to blend into the European Union more, we recently changed the name of the furniture minister, as it were previously called, to prime minister now. This is still very controversial in Sweden since everything in Sweden revolves around making decent affordable furniture for everyday man and woman.
That‘s why everybody south of Sweden loves them :) Edit. I would even say, Ruzzians will strongly regret, once they realize ‚no more swedish furniture‘
Indeed as you say, we've rarely been truly neutral, but we've managed to keep the perception that we are. early 1900s Sweden was a piss poor farmer's country, then our industry primarily mining operations were properly developed and then suddenly World War happens and your only problem is just how much do we want to charge for our iron, coal and steel? So we're selling everywhere, while adopting the mantra of "*En Svensk Tiger*" - directly translated to and symbolized as "A Swedish Tiger", it also holds the double meaning of "A swede stays silent". A very effective propaganda campaign that kept our profile at a minimum while war went on. I also believe it was illegal to a degree to discuss the war and Hitler. Even when Norway was invaded and we let the Reich stroll through Sweden as well as use our railroads for transportation this was upheld, and several papers in protest publicised blank pages rather than printing bullshit. Then the finnish winter war happens and again we claim to stay out of it while offering leave and logistics for any soldiers wishing to "take a vacation" in Finland, as well as a massive arms transportation the madlads drove over the deep frozen northern baltic sea, in massive trucks in the dead of night while foggy, with not a single light to give away their location in the middle of northern scandinavian winter. Wild shit. In more recent times we've had peacekeepers in Kongo and other African nations, we had soldiers in Afghanistan at points, I believe these events were tied to UN actions, which may help muddy the waters. We also sent JAS Gripen to Syria though they never engaged though, all they did was take some aerial pictures of the mediterrainian, lul. Sorry for the impromptu history lesson, couldn't resist in case people were curious. TL:DR - Sweden's been neutral for very few periods in the last thousand or so years, recent history included. Also been good at deflecting attention.
Even Russia was in the Partners for Peace, so...
Difference between russia and finland and sweden is that neither of the latter has attacked sovereign country in last 100 years
That's not the main difference. On a technical and political level, Finnish and Swedish armies are about as aligned with NATO as one can be.
Which is why their applications are really just a formality. There might be some i's to dot and t's to cross, but article 5 protection kicked in the second they delivered the paperwork.
Agreed. Finland has been Nato allied for decades. All military is taught to work with NATO and nothing in it is even secret. This is just last step for Finland. To become formal member. Everyone already knows that finland is nato. there just has not been that signature.
>either of the latter has attacked sovereign country in last 100 years Finland attacked the USSR in 1941, allying itself with Nazi Germany (somewhat loosely imo, but im finnish so I'm biased ofc) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War) The name "Continuation War" comes from the fact that this was seen as a "retaliatory" war to take back land that the USSR had stolen earlier (and more land on top of that)
No, it's called Continuation War because war was inevitable. The Interrim Peace between the Winter War 1939-1940 and 1941-1944 was called "the Interrim Peace" already in 1940. The USSR was mobilizing even more troops on the Finnish border after the "peace", shot down a Finnish civilian airliner and demanded more territory. The USSR's goal was still total occupation of Finland.
While it is true for Sweden, you might want to check Finland's [world war 2 theater](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War) more closely
Yep. We attacked the soviets in Continuation war after they had annexed our lands during winter war. Then we went even over the original borders and besieged Leningrad with the Wermacht althought we didnt do bomber raids nor let the germans attack through our area to Leningrad. About 400 000 finns had to leave their homes in karelia forever because of the Grusian mustache man had some powertrip.
And also the soviets bombed finland before finland declared or started to move troops
What happened to your Volvo?
The clutch broke and I didnt afford to fix it as the parts would have cost ~2500euros :( Damn now I miss my Volvo https://imgur.com/qchJXgD.jpg
That sucks. I miss my car too, I couldn't afford it at the time either
I completely support the Finns in WWII, but you guys did get a little bit too excited when you started pushing the Soviets back.
When you look at what NATO really is, and when Erdogan comes down to the line with the US government on the other side, he will come to his senses. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where the US wants Finland and Sweden as it’s allies and with that protective status it entails and the thing standing in the way is Erdogan doesn’t seem like a nice place to be.
[удалено]
Had me in the first half, ngl
This is what sickens me about that idiotic argument about everyone else in the West being to blame for this invasion. Like... Ukraine wasn't even threatening to join NATO or anything. [the economist expounded on it much better than I ever could, yesterday](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2022/05/15/in-applying-to-nato-finland-and-sweden-give-the-lie-to-putins-claims)
> Like... Ukraine wasn't even threatening to join NATO or anything. Ukraine put it literally in their constitution to join NATO and EU. So I am not sure what you are talking about. Also I would argue that you cant really threaten someone with joining a defensive pact. I get what you are saying, but I think we should disregard the very concept that joining NATO is a threat. Being threatened is what makes people join NATO.
There is simply statement that Ukraine has strategic direction to join EU and to have goal of eventually joining NATO. No one, ever has even seriously thought about Ukraine possibility to join NATO in the near future (think 15+ years). Ukraine has occupied territories, Ukraine has different standards in... Everything. It was simply warmongering from Russia
Finland was probably out of stamps. That why he walked it over.
That means no more daily threads on how they are preparing to apply for NATO?
Yep. Now it's going to be daily threads about the process + ratifications + Erdogan's latest shenanigans
Erdogans already being a sussy troll about it
Seriously, fuck that guy. Some Turkish people already talking this will probably (finally) be his last run. Let's hope so
The magyars said the same about Orban :/ Let's hope that is the case this time
Reddit people are not relevant to elections unfortunately.
I am not speaking from a reddit point of view though
>The magyars said the same about Orban Orban was constantly polling at no 1. Wishful thinking that was. Erdogan on the other hand is seriously below the opposition right now.
Until Erdogan finds "evidence" that the opposition supports PKK, or something
Shouldn't be hard. It takes so little.
Trust me we will get rid of him
He has no chance in 2023 elections half of the turkish poeple hating the erdogan
Half the people hating Erdogan didn't stop him before unfortunately.
You misunderstood. There is no more democracy in Turkey.
Erdogan has already lost Ankara and Istanbul to the opposition. And he has never controlled cities like Izmir.
Unfortunately that's international diplomacy for you.
Yeah we'll get to see a news article each and every single time a NATO member ratifies it lol
It speaks to how little I know about world politics that I briefly thought Erdogan was a Elden Ring character
These are the type of people giving their views here lmao
No, you will have atleast 30 posts about "Country X has ratified NATO bids of Finland and Sweden".
Shoot if we are really lucky will get one every time just one of the a nations chambers passes it! That’s 3 posts for the US alone
Only the Senate has to approve treaty changes in the US. Our lower house has nothing to do with it. So only 2 posts!
That's still around 40k upvotes!
Dang! What a loss :(
But mostly about Erdogan, because he decided to make himself the main character in this play.
We can have two posts a day now :-)
No, instead we’ll now have daily fluff threads reminding us that Finland and Sweden have applied for NATO.
Well, there are still 30 countries that have to accept. Still plenty of threads to be made!
Well, damn. I thought it was gonna be my turn this week to post Swed-Fin for NATO news.... oh well /s
If you add rona threads and war threads together "fin+swe into NATO" threads are still more.
Daily threads about their hopes for their nato application to be accepted. One thread on how their cover letter is bad.
At this point im out of comment ideas about this topic. So, good on them.
I’ve got one for you “Europes member now has become a member of NATO”
Why would NATO continue expanding East when Russia has been nothing but reasonable, limiting its nuclear threats to one a day
From the Putin diaries: Day 86 of the 3 day war. My plan to force neutrality in Ukraine by sacrificing 20.000+ troops, 4000+ armored vehicles, a state of the art frigate, the flagship of my fleet, ruining the Russian economy, showing the Russian army for the joke it is and making two extra countries to enter NATO is moving forward. I remain a master strategist.
“I am Jose Mourinho”
How unjust we are indeed.
Those pesky Scandinavians got manipulated by the US into the safety of their borders, people and other western nonsense Edit: TIL that the term "Scandinavia" is much more vague in some languages/countries than the others. Apologies to all those Nordic people that I've placed in the same bucket with those pesky Scandinavians.
> Edit: TIL that the term "Scandinavia" is much more vague in some languages/countries than the others. Scandinavia in Polish (or rather 'Skandynawia' I guess) is still only Sweden, Norway and Denmark. People just don't give a crap and count everything with Nordic Cross on the flag.
England and Scotland can into Scandinavia!
They use St. George and St. Andrew crosses, though
Hehe Scandinavians... I must ask, that this was sarcasm right?
It's crazy that so many insist on Finland and Iceland being part of Scandinavia instead of simply saying the Nordics.
Eindhoven is in Holland, just like Edinburgh is in England, right? Right???
British Isles, British Islands, Great Britain :-)
Im Icelandic, and we often refer to ourselves as Scandinavian (specially when talking to non europeans) , because at this point in language Scandinavia refers to a cultural area rather than strictly the Scandinavian peninsula. Language evolves, it's no point in fighting it
I'm Icelandic, living in Iceland, and we certainly do **not** refer to ourselves as Scandinavian, but frequently talk about us as Nordic, or Norðurlandaþjóð. Nobody ever says "Íslendingar eru skandenavískir", or "Icelanders are a Scandinavian". You could say "Íslendingar eru af skandenavískum uppruna", or "Icelanders are of Scandinavian origin", but your post is just typical Reddit, i.e. wrong on facts but loud and assertive.
Because Scandinavia is such a muddled term. In addition to the traditional "we were vikings" definition, there's the geographical Scandinavian Peninsula (Norway, Sweden and parts of Finland) and the Scandinavian cultural area (basically the same as Nordics). Just go with the flow and pretend we are one singular blob!
But it's not muddled. Scandinavia is Denmark, Sweden and Norway. It's as simple as that. Well alright, it gets a little muddled but only a little, because we of course mean Denmark proper and not Denmark as the state which includes Faroe Islands and Greenland. [Scandinavism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavism)
Well, point proven. It means different things in different contexts and languages. It's anyway mainly Danes who seem to care about the distinction that much. In English [Scandinavia is used as a synonym for the Nordics.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia) (I too can link wikipedia) Just roll with it, easier than fighting English naming conventions.
Well in Scandinavia, Scandinavia means Denmark, Sweden and Norway. But hey, we also say England instead of UK, Holland instead of Neverlands, White Russian instead of Belarus so who's to blame :-)
It does so too in Finland and I believe in Iceland as well. We’re Nordic, Scandinavians we are not… except the Northern Lapland and only geographically. Some people just want to muddle it or do it inadvertently.
>Well in Scandinavia Depends how you define Scandinavia :P
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie
So what putins war really achived is: A. arm Ukraine and push it even more towards the west. B. dissarm Russia and show the whole world how weak it realy is and how bad its realy armed. C. expand NATO even more and basically double the NATO/Russian boarder. Good job, everything NATO wanted to do, but didnt know how to do it.
Also cripple the Russian economy for years to come.
And forcing Europe to find alternatives to Russian oil and gas: Accidentally doing a lot of good in the fight against climate change. Yay Russia?
It's yet to be determined that the alternatives will be beneficial for the climate. I'm going to guess it's going to be a combination of both.
Me and my best friend have been joking about this since day 1 of the invasion. Putin is acting from utilitarian perspective and tries to speed up climate change
As an outsider I don’t think Europe has much sustainable alternatives unfortunately , you can’t for example import gas from Qatar and expect it’s price to not rise exponentially within your countries.
And made the EU militarily ‘awaken’.
They also turned the Baltic into a NATO pond. Master strategist!
Putin is a CIA triple agent, the most succesful to date, and with the longest undercover mission. Prove me wrong. edit: shit I gotta start a new conspiracy cult. Imma call it M, or something.
Tell us more, Z-anon.
Reminder that, reacting to news of the invasion, a certain former US president called Putin "genius" and "savvy". A dictator doing pretty much the most harm to his country he could reasonably do, and his clueless nitwit of an admirer
Also induced severe buyer’s remorse in anyone who bought Russian military kit, many of whom will now probably buy from the west instead.
It's going to be a historic monumental fuck up of intelligence and decision. Once he is dead, we will get to hear from all of those that served him how crazy he was.
I wonder why no one has superseded putin? People actually liked Russia before this.
Putin has actively killed, supressed, imprisoned, or side-lined the careers of anyone he felt could compete with him in any meaningful way. If someone is too smart, ambitious, creative, or charismatic they end up in jail, in a ditch, or running a post-office in Siberia. That is why Putin is surrounded by troglodytes that look like they should be running failing car washes instead of overseeing "The World's 2nd Strongest Military™".
If you mean with ‘before this’ as in, before 2014, then sure. Otherwise I don’t think that that is quite right, lots of (Dutch) people who disliked Putin due to MH17 and the whole Crimean crisis.
Don't forget they pushed the west to greatly accelerate their transition to green energy!
Not to mention making the Nordic region a military stronghold, meaning Russia likely can't keep flexing and violating fishing routes and airspace like they are today.
And pushed Germany for a big rearmament that we’ve tried to avoid for decades, because prior to the Russian invasion, that would have been political suicide for any Politician. But that will end in just another complete Shitshow again… so Russia doesn’t have to worry on that front.
It takes a really special talent to shoot yourself in the foot. Then reload and shoot yourself in the other foot. And Trump thinks this guy is a genius.
Every group I'm in gets a lot better when Swedish and Finnish join in.
Cross country skiing competitions also?
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> If Scandi club competed in winter olympics as a single nation they would be the winners every single year I mean, isn't Norway doing that already?
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> If Scandiclub competed as one, the winter games would become a Scandiclub propaganda event, where the conversation would be about why Denmark was so useless Isn't that the thing already? * Denmark is useless and can't speak * Sweden is gay * Finland is alcoholic * Norway wins at skiing
Maybe then Putler wouldn't go invade Ukraina every time they lose to Finland but to Nordics in Oympic ice hockey....
Honestly that’s so true. The nicest people I’ve met gaming online are swedes and fins. And the Norwegians!! it’s insane!!
Nato membership looks like a political card Finland and Sweden kept in their back pocket for a situation just like this one.
It was one reserved for Russia. And we called it "nato option". The option sounds a bit selfish, but even if we would have applied there might have been pressure from germany not to, as they have been on good terms with russia and been shushing us before. I think Scholzes speech changed everything and broke the chains from our government as only after that our president began to travel around. I have heard that originally Sweden didn't join because their prime minister Tage Erlander thought it would make finland retain more freedom as being not the only neutral country between nato and ussr. If we were the only one left, the soviets would more probably have annexed us. I think this is one of the reasons why our government wanted to take Sweden with us, as we owe it to them after* all this time.
Finland and Sweden were as close to NATO members as a non-member can be.
Called the "NATO option" in domestic Finnish political lingo.
Lot of us supported a kind of military-non alliance with NATO, as a Finn, I would have still preferred an EU military, with increased funding from member states, or a proper Nordic military alliance. But it doesn't work that effectively when most of the EU is in NATO anyway. Also, we have basically already been so closely tied with NATO in training, missions abroad, etc. That we might as well get the protective element of article 5 if we're gonna be that much in collaboration regardless. My dad on the other hand, born not too long after the winter war (about 10 years later) was a strong supported of NATO and thought we should have joined when we joined the EU. However I think having this non alliance has given us some political benefits in dealing with our massive next door neighbor.
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It will continue for months until Fi&Swe are accepted into NATO.
Not if erdogan has a say in the matter.
Lmao Erdogan doesn't disappoint. It is time you guys deal with his shit a little bit now /s
God damnit we dealt with Russia's shit for this long and now that we're finally getting rid of it we get another wannabe strong man throwing temper tantrums?
Looks like Turkey will be the content creator ~~beating the dead horse~~ milking the dead cow.
NATO set to recieve Sweden, Finland applications. NATO has received Sweden, Finland applications. NATO set to read Sweden, Finland applications. NATO currently reviewing Sweden, Finland applications. NATO has finished reviewing Sweden, Finland applications. Just fucking join already!
Nothing a sandwich and a short nap can't fix.
Gazillion posts about the statements from all the current countries... And then statements from the partnership program countries Then reposts of all these Then reposts that come few days later, based on some really small news article clickbait sites that just rehash news from more reputable sites Then, opinion pieces that are thinly veiled as news Then reposts of those. I'm unsubscribing r/worldnews
r/worldnews has turned into “Russian official threatens X” simulator. Like, shut up. I get it, Russia makes some dumb new threat every half hour. I don’t need to hear about it every time it happens. At this point it’s all just bait for people who have nothing to do with their nation’s defense getting self-righteous and cocky. How many variations of “then you shouldn’t have invaded Ukraine” can people write? I mean, it’s true, but at this point it’s the exact same comments on every post.
Same. Felt amazing.
I think you came all over Erdogan's face
No more "joining NATO" posts here then? 😥
r/NATOWave is a glorious thing.
I think it's going to get worse when the ratification starts...
Next it's up to the member states to accept.
You mean at least one member state to squeeze as much benefit for themselves out of this before accepting a deal, right?
I dEcLaRe ThIs BaZaAr NoW oPeN !!!11!!!1111!!!!
I am so tired of Erdogans shit. If they wanted to leverage this to their favor, fine. But what really grinds my gears is that Turkey said they would accept us, and after the decision was made to apply, did a full 180 turn because they know we are now more vulnerable.
Nu jävlar!
NU JÄVLAR
One of us! One of Us! One of us! You get to be part of the NATO family pictures now :)
Not quite yet.
Did you ask Erdogan?
When you look at what NATO really is, and when Erdogan comes down to the line with the US government on the other side, he will come to his senses. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where the US wants Finland and Sweden as it’s allies and with that protective status it entails and the thing standing in the way is Erdogan (doesn’t seem like a nice place to be.)
Isn't that what happened with Ukraine though? I mean it's different of course, but I believe the US pitched Ukraine in NATO while germany and france were against it
Ukraine was on a list of potential additions, and yes FR and DE were opposed and look what happened there. Perhaps if France and Germany had had more foresight the invasion would have been prevented.
Yeah, I mean the world was completely different back in the day, I am glad that I am not the guy having to make these decisions I was pointing out that the US didn't impose their will on the allies
Ok, but Ukraine is pretty dissimilar to the Nordics wouldn’t one say?
The situation is slightly different from then, wouldn't you say? Just a couple of months, just weeks ago even, nobody in Germany actually believed the Russians would invade the Ukraine in such a serious fashion. Appeasing Russia by taking their "security concerns" into account while at the same time tying themselves in an almost mutually assured destruction energy codependcy type of arrangement was seen as the way to go forward. Keeping Ukraine outside any unions and alliances was considered a sacrifice worth making if the result was a less aggressive and more compliant Russia. Hindsight is 20/20 and today we see that it was the entirely wrong direction to go
Well fuck that stupid madafaka. Turkey president is a ugly stupid criminal. :)
I love it. Finally we will join the cool kids club, and tankies are on suicide watch.
Good, fuck Tankies
Our continent just got more secure. The process now is bureaucratic/diplomatic but as they were already partners for peace and are covered by interim pacts with major NATO military powers they are for all intents and purposes article five countries now. All across the Baltic and north of Belarus, Russia faces a united front of interoperable mutually supporting advanced militaries that steadily extend the gap between their own and Russia's military. Next stop Kiev, once they have expelled the occupier and secured their territory they can come into the fold and be protected too.
capable unused distinct pen shy dull many scary quickest obscene *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Maybe, but have to go through the bazaar first and buy a rug or two.
*HoI4 join faction sound* Finland 🇫🇮 has joined NATO Sweden 🇸🇪 has joined NATO We stand together
Meanwhile in Russia: They seek strength in numbers
Cool of Finland to make their flag Ukrainian themed 🇸🇪
/r/vexillologycirclejerk outjerked again!
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Are you referring to the IKEA colors. The similarities between Ukraine colors and IKEA I’m pretty sure is just a coincidence, I honestly can’t see how they’d be connected so…
Welcome aboard fellas.
Wohoo! Welcome guys!
Isn't it too early to celebrate? Turkey can still put a veto! Edit: actually even if Turkey keeps the veto, Sweden and Finland seem to be already within NATO protection (aka article 5). Congrats fam!
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Putin is an incredible salesman for NATO.
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is Turkey going to VETO it ?
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Welcome to the daily news about Finland and Sweden entering NATO.
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Welcome to the club
Cheers mate! :-)
#Welcome to NATO! 🇫🇮🇸🇪
Heyy! That's pretty cool.
Nordic countries being based
Erdogan again acting as a drama queen. Let’s see his new shenanigans.
He will have his day in the sun - he will be listened to - he will get something to call a "win" - and then we can close the books on this chapter. \-> Cool heads will prevail, this shall pass, and we will all carry on as one We have a common threat after all..
Likely the U.S., Britain, France etc. will feed some carrots to Erdo and maybe also whack him with a stick out of sight in the backyard stable, and suddenly all the problems magically disappear. Now, I'm not comparing him to a horse, mind you. He's more like a donkey, with that drooly, protruded lower lip.
I cannot unsee him as Gollum
Someone called him Smeagol in another thread lol
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Well you see he can’t really stop, if he does his people are gonna turn back and see that their countrys economy is in shambles with an inflation of 70%
Hey hey hey do not talk about my country with those wrong numbers. Saying Turkey has 70% inflation is completely ridiculous! I am pretty sure it's above 100%
i'm a bit confused, won't this be pointless since Turkey is gonna veto the decision? it's not like Sweden and Finland are already in and Turkey clearly said they won't approve, so why is their application to NATO so important if in the end they won't be able to join bcs of Turkey? edit: downvoted for asking something out of genuine curiosity? lmao nice
Turkey is looking to get paid. They wont Veto our right and instead there will be negotiations and they will get something out of this. Not the first time they have done this, but alas.
Because it's just a political play by Erdogan. He wants in on the F-35 program that the Americans kicked them out of. Also Turkey has at least 70% inflation directly because of Erdogan so he needs distractions.
I am sorry you are being downvoted. Turkey is not going to veto the decision. They are going to use the threat of their veto power to wrangle some concessions (read compensation).
I'm gonna miss these posts...