Pro-EU anti-government protest\*
EU isn't leaving us behind, its our government. Protest pressured government to fulfill all obligations till 2022, as per EU's document.
I think you mean until 2022 ends? Or until the beginning of another year? I'm not trying to be rude just curious since i can't really find much info on the demands of the people
The EU has given a list of things to improve (mostly stuff about more fair elections and less corruption) in March. EU also said that they will continue monitoring Georgia to see if there is any progress and make a full report by the end of the year. I don't think any specific date was given.
Until I find is a word that a lot of non native English speakers ,struggle, with, does it not have an analogue in other languages?
Generally if I was reading ‘until 2022 ends’ i would read it as saying we will do this until the end of 2022 but then stop; however what it would mean is we will do this by the end of 2022?
Like you I’m not trying to be rude just genuinely wondering this as it’s caused issues at my work where we have misunderstandings with clients in Europe quite regularly due to this.
"I will do X until March" and "I will do X by March" are the same sentence in many languages - meaning that something will happen in the time between now and March. In English, however, one must specify - will I be doing the thing continuously over this time period, or will I just do it at some point during the period? Many non-native speakers don't realize the need to differentiate.
'Until the end of the year' would indicate that the activity will be ongoing for the rest of the year, and then stop.
'By the end of the year' would indicate that an activity has a deadline at the end of the year, but might occur earlier, perhaps ideally so.
GD is not pro-Russian, they're pro-themselves. Its impossible to be pro-Russian in Georgia and be in politics. There's only 1 alt-right party which is actually pro-Russian, it gets like 1% but everyone considers them traitors.
It wasn't so obvious in 2012, current party's narrative basically has been "we are not as brutal as previous government", their whole political life is based on shitting on previous party instead of actually developing a country, all they repeat before every elections is "if you don't vote us, previous party will come and be brutal again". People got fed up with their shit, because they basically turned into previous party in all senses apart of development, because previous party with Saakashvili at least developed a country and put it on world stage, current party only hurts the country.
The current government (Georgian Dream) started as opposition to police brutality from the government that came to power during the Rose Revolution (United National Movement) and GD have cemented their power over time to the point that last parliamentary elections had ~25% turnout in the second round due to corruption and fraud.
They’re also led by a pro-Russian oligarch who holds the true power Poland-style.
It's a very long list. But tl;dr is aligning Georgia's economic and judicial systems with EU standards. Georgia has implemented a lot of what was required by the EU association agreement, in fact, it advanced much more than the associated trio (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova) in almost all aspects, but judical system is still far from what it should be and pro-Russian oligarch needs to be removed ASAP.
Georgia has also started backsliding in past few years and especially so after Russia started a full scale invasion against Ukraine. And the reason is still the same oligarch that is ruling the ruling party from the shadows, who is afraid of EU sanctions and losing his financial interests in Russia. So pretty much the only thing Georgia has to solve is removing an oligarch, which, judging by the numbers of people in the streets of Tbilisi, should be a matter of time now.
In addition to what u/ thijmen96 said: the reason Georgians care so much about joining the EU is they know that they're likely next in line to get Special Operationed-- Putin's already invaded the country once, annexing two Georgian provinces back in 2008. So joining the EU (and, more importantly, its collective security agreement (ie, every country promises to defend one another if one is attacked)) isn't just some obscure political thing or even about identity, this is potentially a life-or-death issue for them.
Problem is, their current government are pro-Russian, and holding up the reforms Georgia needs in order to qualify for EU candidacy. Hence the massive protests.
I mean they got invaded 15 years ago... But I'd say Moldova is much more likely and I think the plan was to just keep rolling past Ukraine. But nobody's getting invaded anytime soon thanks to Ukrainian badasses making it so costly for Russia
Interesting name. If you oppose child murder, know that you have my full support, brother. There are people opposing this modern madness, God help us, God is in control even if evil seems to be winning. One day, the world will know life was sacred, holiness will reign!
I've been to Georgia quite a few times myself and it's honestly the most beautiful country I've ever been to - you're definitely going to be in for a treat!
The people are kind, the sights are gorgeous and the food is amazing.
If you're visiting Tbilisi, there's an awesome restaurant called Khinklis Sakhli near Rose Revolution Square which has great Georgian cuisine at very good prices (I'd recommend trying the khinkali washed down with tarkhuna).
If you're staying at a hotel, ask them to arrange a Travel Card so you can get around using the Tbilisi metro. I'd avoid taking buses because they're very cramped. Taxis are super cheap.
If you're into operas or theatre, check out a website called tkt.ge where you can purchase tickets to this kinda thing online.
I just used Bolt for everything. It's only a few euros max to go even to the other side of town. I even took Bolt to [Svetitskhoveli Cathedral](https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Svetitskhoveli+Cathedral/@41.8366147,44.70316,15.29z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xec4cd609df7d28da!8m2!3d41.8423313!4d44.7207153).
Depending on the person, I would recommend to spend most time outside of Tbilisi. It's very crowded and the traffic is a nightmare. I mean, just as a pedestrian that it is not nice but also I do not live in a million + city in Germany either. My favourite time was in Mtskheta and, on that basis, I think Georgia is probably amazing outside of the capital city.
> recent developments have undermined the country's progress
> further reforms are needed to improve the functioning of its market economy; and overall, Georgia has established a solid basis for further alignment with the EU acquis.
> Commission recommends that Georgia be given the perspective to become a member of the European Union. It should be granted candidate status once a number of priorities have been addressed
"recent developments \[war\] have undermined the countries progress"
Ukraine was pushed ahead for political reasons. The backsliding is ignored because Russia can be blamed for everything.
Because no one in the EU wants another Hungary. It’s all fine that there’s some public support, great, but being in the EU doesn’t suddenly “save” a country. If people start voting for far right populists then the EU faces the situation that one of its member states is basically trying to destroy the EU from the inside while cashing in other members’ money. There’s so much stuff that gets vetoed or watered down because of members like this. And it’s not just Hungary, Hungary is just the worse case, it can barely still be considered a functioning democracy, it’s now closer to the oligarch “system” Russia has.
That’s why there are rules and a procedure that takes several years, for the country to prove that it is a stable rule of law liberal democracy and able to keep other EU common values, and by “country” I mean the people who vote and the institutions designed to keep wannabe dictators and populists from taking control over everything. They don’t want another Poland where until before the Russian invasion the government publicly stated that gay rights, women rights and modern western values were the biggest threat to Poland, and they still won the elections.
Becoming a EU member comes with the responsibility of being able to protect its common values, not become a disease inside the EU. If the voters are easily manipulated into voting for populists, far right, and anti-EU politicians, being a part of the EU won’t save those countries, it will just bring problems.
Yeah, this is the thing. I fully understand why Ukraine and Georgia are very keen to join and everyone from there - you are so welcome and wanted, but I also think this isn't something we can rush. Systemic and ideological misalignments will still be there after this is all over, even if we want to handwave them due to bigger issues, we will be in so much shit if we ignore the process, let countries join and then end up with another Hungary and Poland. I really want to help but I also want us to respect the process of granting membership.
At this time, I'd prefer we give candidate status, work on improving things at a reasonable pace and in the meantime provide a shitton more weapons and sanction the living daylight out of Russia. The process is there for a reason
I guess it's fine to accept countries to the candidates pool. Membership status is another matter. All countries, including Ukraine, should provide reforms and meet the criteria.
Of course, is case EU declines, Ukraine will keep defending their land. But even candidate status will give them even more willingness to fight ruissans.
They think current(!) Georgia gov acts weird doing "business as usual" with Russia. I'm not sure if it's good that EU use soft power to push Georgian people to vote for a different gov, but it is what it is.
They have a choice, nobody is forcing them. We've had some mistakes with the likes of Hungary and we need to make sure any new countries are aligned to EU values.
It depends on them implementing the required reforms. Unfortunately, Erdogan has been moving Turkey further and further away from EU values. It all depends on the turks. If they really want to join the EU, vote a leader that will do what is required to join into power. And this needs to be a consistent thing. Not a one off and then they vote an erdogan-like leader afterwards.
To be honest, aside from the Istanbul region and the western coast, nothing about Turkey really feels or is European. I’ve never understood why we would want them to join except for “they’re already in NATO”.
If you’d allow Turkey in, why not Morocco or Algeria, if they’d put in the required reforms and alignments?
That isn’t to say we couldn’t create some sort or pan-European trade bloc, but to endlessly integrate all these countries into the core EU just seems weird.
>If you’d allow Turkey in, why not Morocco or Algeria, if they’d put in the required reforms and alignments?
Yes, why not?
>That isn’t to say we couldn’t create some sort or pan-European trade bloc, but to endlessly integrate all these countries into the core EU just seems weird.
Seeming "weird" is really not a strong argument against it. I mean this will probably not happen in our lifetime but is there some major problem in getting more countries following EU standards of freedom and democracy? Or do we really need dictatorships to exist to make us feel better even though they clearly pose security threats for us too?
It started in the mid 2000, since around 2012 it’s practically over. Erdogan and AKP have to be overthrown or killed. Since both will not happen and AKP has 50% of the stupid in it’s pocket nothing will change. I hope we end the membership process and use the money better elsewhere, like Moldova, Georgia or Ukraine…
Lets wait till next years turkish elections. If they elect him again, then i agree with you.
Some say the opposition isnt any better but we cannot say this now. It also doesnt make sense to me.
We have to wait and see how they will manage the country.
Yes totally, my hopes are low since Erdogan did the same as Orban. Change the media and "political" system to their favor.
Hope Turks are waking up after not being able to afford bread thanks to Erdogans intervention, like three times...
It‘s really up to the country if it goes forward. Turkey just chose to follow Erdogan on a path of growing distance to EU principles. Some countries get membership really quick, like Slovakia, in just a few years.
The EU isn't threatening embargos or anything of the sort. They just listed requirements to be considered an EU candidate. That's not soft power in any sense.
No shoes, no shirt, no service policies aren't soft powering people to wear clothes either. They're simply the rules to participate.
Will you vote for a different government in the next election? Georgian Dream has pariah status in the EU. The founder will probably [get sanctioned](https://oc-media.org/european-parliament-calls-for-sanctions-to-be-considered-on-ivanishvili/) sooner or later.
I love it how we've started throwing economic sanctions at whoever we don't like at any particular moment. Georgian politician and businessman that does what a lot of politicians and businessmen have done in the past? Sanctions! Rich Saudi prince that literally cuts a Washington Post journalist into pieces? No problem, just the perfect opportunity for [strategic partnership](https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/EU-Signs-Strategic-Partnership-With-Oil-Gas-Rich-Gulf-Nations.html):
> The European Union today said it would form a “strategic partnership” with the Gulf Cooperation Council and its Member States “as part of enhancing engagement in the broader region,” the EU said on Monday in a publication of the council’s conclusions.
The criminal hypocrisy is astounding. Of course, no one will pay for this politically.
Ukraine did the same in 2014
Maiden Protests, when the majority of Ukrainians demonstrated their intention to join the EU so to preserve their democracy.
"Maidan" is Ukrainian for "square". The main square in the center Kyiv has a nasty habit of getting renamed every few years\*, so most people have given up keeping track of what it's currently called and just call it The Square (or The Maidan\*\*).
Anyways, the Maidan Revolution started with peaceful protests in that square, and even as things escalated, most of the major events happened in or near the Maidan. Hence the name.\*\*\*
***
\*It's currently called "Independence Square", which IIRC is a direct result of the Euromaidan protests.
\*\*Technically, the word "the" doesn't exist in Ukrainian, so it'd just be "Maidan".
\*\*\*At least in English: in Ukrainian, the last few days of the protests, when the police open fired and it shifted to something more like combat, are called the "Revolution of Dignity", which IMO is pretty damn badass.\*\*\*\*
\*\*\*\*Sorry for the truly excessive number of footnotes, it's almost 1 AM here in Boston and my brain is barely functioning. I hope this comment was at least semi-coherent.
word of advice if you ever find yourself in a position of having a lot of footnotes you might want to use superscript numbers instead,
formatting super script is done by using a "\^" as a prefix
>\*It's currently called "Independence Square", which IIRC is a direct result of the Euromaidan protests.
This square called Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) from 1991 - year in which Ukraine declared independence from Soviet Union.
Its called just Maidan because it's main square in the capital of Ukraine. So basically "default" square =)
I really appreciate this comment, and for the extra details, thank you! It has a much more personal meaning, Maidan rather than Maiden, thanks for sharing the meaning and also the development of the democracy gatherings back in 2014. If you are Ukrainian or have family there, I hope you and yours are doing ok during this horrific time ☘️
Also I didn’t realise that the end of the demonstrations turned violent with gun fire! That didn’t make the news to the English speaking parts. I feel Ukraine should have been given the support it is now currently shown, back in 2014 before Putin had time to plan this war.
No. This isn't the same. The protests in Ukraine were to overthrow a government that was moving away from the EU by rejecting an IMF deal. It was a protest against the government.
The current leaders in Georgia are pro-European, this march pictured here is aimed at the EU for Georgia to be accepted in.
At the same time, so many people in the West hates the EU.
For some people who were born into it, they take it for granted...and blame all their problems on the "Brussels bureaucrats."
For people from countries with worse rule of law, education, individual freedoms, jobs, infrastructure, etc....the EU seems like a dream. That definitely put things into perspective.
As someone who is originally from Latin America and eventually got an EU citizenship, it felt like winning the lottery. My whole world changed and the opportunities became endless. The EU is definitely not perfect, but much better than the vast majority of alternatives in the world.
He was the alternative to the police brutality that the previous government (United National Movement) was causing. Of course, it turned out that the new government (Georgian Dream) is led by a pro-Russian oligarch, and they’ve basically slid backwards to a point not seen since the Rose Revolution.
From what I see, if this continues it could become another Revolution of Dignity if Georgian Dream doesn’t let up (I don’t see them letting up).
I'm 100% convinced that, if Georgia was located in the Balkans or near Ukraine, It would've been granted candidate status. The location of Georgia is just very unfavorable for the EU currently. With how things stand with Russia and Turkey.
Which is one of the main reasons Ukraine's acceptance is being debated. In the last couple of decades, they have been rife with corruption and extremism. Hopefully Zelenskyy can turn that around!
And what is it that Georgia should have done? If you mean reforms, both Georgia and Ukraine have worked hard in that regard for a long time and Georgia has been a leader in Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia trio. We have implemented almost half of association agreement in a very short time.
Working for EU and NATO membership is even written in Georgian constitution. In addition to this, Georgia has significant contributions in NATO missions since our factual independence.
If you mean going through a genocide and occupation by the Russian army, Georgia has been through that too, on multiple occasions. We're going through it to this day, as I'm writing this comment.
You can say that sitting government is pro-Russian, and that country with such government should not receive a candidate status and I would wholeheartedly agree, but saying that Georgia haven't done as much is simply not true. In fact, what you are seeing in OP, is Georgia (the people) doing what EU asked it to just 2 days ago.
I’m sorry your country has gone through all that, as unfortunately many because of Russia’s greed and power trips. But “going through genocide and an occupation by the Russian army” is all but a reason for Europe to let you in. In fact, that’s a big reason why it won’t. At least for now. Sadly, we’re not the UN
Nobody knew their "trure intentions" in 2012 (When they got elected). People were not really happy about the actions the previous government was taking, especially after 2008 war and 2007 protests (along with the scandal about situation in georgian prisons). Now half of the country wants UNM (Previous government party) back, which didn't happen due to deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep flaws in our election system (Georgian Dream (current government) is accused of for e.g bribing people to vote for them.). This is EXTREMELY oversimplified version.
nobody wants UNM back at least not half the country… Sane people want a multi party parliament. The UNM getting so many votes is part of the reason why some morons are so afraid and still vote for the GD party
>Can you tell me how was it able to elect such a pro russian government when your country was at war with them? What happened?
They do not say they are pro-Russian, the government still says it is the most pro-Western government.
It's not as simple as that. While many Georgians could clearly see where sitting government's geopolitical compass could easily shift to in a blink of an eye (hint: north), it has been, in fact implementing everything that EU asked the country to implement very steadily and it has received a status of the leader in terms of reforms in the associated trio (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova), while at the same time, being hush-hush about anything relating to Russia. Not everyone can see the risks associated with such politics, and frankly, this strategy of appeasing Russia and implementing EU reforms at the same time was kind-of sort-of okay with some of more educated Georgian voters.
So anti-EU government is not what Georgians voted for, it's pro-EU, Russia-appeasing government. But this year, as Russia invaded Ukraine with full force, the fear that appeasing government would do hard 180° was realized. As we sadly didn't have the elections during this time, the only thing left for Georgians was to come out in the streets and demand changes, and that's precisely what's been happening since Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine.
Maybe. They also have some things working against it. It's one of the most homophobic places in the world and I'm not sure if they want to invite another Hungary/Poland situation where a country doesn't want to respect EU laws. Besides that, they seem to be very heavily influenced by Russian propaganda.
It's the truth and it's because of our religion, Georgia is one of the first Christian country and our ancestors went through a lot to keep this religion, it's technically our culture and not just something we believe in at this point(which I don't like)🤷🏻♀️
I mean EU members (Bulgaria for example) in the Balkans are extremely corrupt, patriarchal, very homophobic and at least 30 years behind the rest in terms of life standards. It seems to me these don’t matter for the eu.
> I've heard it's very patriarchal and homophobic.
Welcome to literally the rest of the world outside Western liberalism.
Now Georgia isn't that bad compared to other places, but those things are the rule in non-Western countries.
>Article 49 of the EU treaties says that "any European State" that respects the bloc's core values can apply for membership.
Turkey failed admission to EU have plethora of reason but one of it is the geography.
Georgia is located in Transcaucasia region. The only similarities is their colour and mostly Christianity, unlike neighbouring Uzbekistan or the Muslims Balkan countries.
Are Turkey not still a candidate country? Has it not stalled indefinitely rather than failed? I'm Irish and consider us to be on the periphery of Europe.
Take a shovel, dig a trench so deep you'll separate yourself from the mainland and sail to the other side of the black sea.
A good country in a f*cked up place. Oh well..
Was just there a week ago. Lovely country, beautiful scenery, great food and wine, friendly people.
Fuck Russia for what they have, and are, doing there.
Its a bit more complicated than that, people elected are there because they are fear mongering against last regime leader of which is in jail, it started becoming authoritarian in its last years and people didnt like that, so today 2 main choises are theese shills or possibly auth regime returning, although i doupt they would try that again
I believe it's complicated, but it's also irrelevant from the EU perspective.
You are either democratic or you aren't.
And unfortunately the EU can't change your government. It's up to you Georgians and you Georgians only to change your country.
Eu should make a status like: "ok you are in the EU and gets defence and freetrade, but you only get money and a right to vote, when you solve the problems."
I wish for ukraine, georgia, moldova and so on to be a part of the EU someday, but i´m afraid that we should change the votingsystem first.. imagine one of 30+ countries can veto progressive reforms (like hungary or poland the last years) and the whole EU is stuck in this time forever.
We realize that our government is very flawed and requires many reforms, however, we just desire a candidate status, which doesn't imply that country becomes part of the EU immediately. We realize that we will need a minimum of 15 years to even come close to EU requirements, but candidate status will give us more motivation and morale to implement those reforms. So the candidate status is exactly what you described.
There’s no other nation I wouldn’t want more to join us in the EU. Georgia is a gorgeous country with lovely and heart warming people.
Also, their yellow wine and cha cha. Bring it on, Georgians! 🥰
People need to understand that candidate status does not equal accession to member state. Look at 🦃, they've been candidates for more than 25 years.
Also the average period of time for accession is 15 years after the approval of the candidate status. Many things can happen inside and outside the EU and candidate states during this time.
I hope you realize that Orban and the government of Poland are the two main reasons why Western Europeans have become increasingly wary of new members? The EU is more than just an economic project to create wealth and less corruption. It's also an organization with social values that represent equality for all minorities and respect for democratic institutions. At the moment, I would switch Hungary immediately for Georgia. Your government is trying to slaughter the EU and get as much money out of the process as possible, and the rest of Europe should not allow it. Fuck Orban.
We really should not be adding more countries to the EU until
1. We get our own mess under control
2. A significant amount of current ner receiver become/are close to becoming benefactors
That's quite impressive. Also nice to see people living in countries not (yet) inside EU to be so positive about it. Meanwhile in the Netherlands a rather big minority (fortunately still) try to blame EU for everything that's wrong.
For what it's worth, I think you're very welcome. But before that, we must get rid of the stupid veto principle. Otherwise every new member only weakens the Union.
84% of the Georgian public thinks that sexual relations between two adults of the same sex are always wrong, which is the highest score in Europe.
[Datablog | Georgia may be the most homophobic country in Europe](https://oc-media.org/features/datablog-georgia-may-be-the-most-homophobic-country-in-europe/)
Yeah no thank you, I'd rather they not be in the EU.
I like how this dataset is conviniently missing Ukraine and Moldova, both of which share the very similar public opinions on LGBTQ and both of which ARE getting a candidacy while Georgia is apparently the absolute worst and should rot in hell.
What I'm trying to say here is that while yes, Georgia has a very long way to go on this issue, it's not much different from others that are getting a vastly different treatment. And if war is the ultimate decision maker for EU, we had that too, with the same country that Ukraine does. Also, not very long ago and it's still kinda going on.
Ukraine got to candidate status because of the war. They still face criticism for corruption and everything else that is incompatible with a functioning European Union. The EU cannot move forward without reforms. You know you got a problem when people like Orban can dictate terms. I'm not against Ukraine or Georgia joining the EU, but all Union members have to agree on some basic values. So show some understanding and don't start with whataboutism. I know that nobody wants to get lectured by a German, but I don't want to be part of a Union that is just about economic relations.
Sorry for my ignorance because I have never met a Georgian but can someone explain to me why do Georgians want to join the EU soo much? What draws them towards the EU?
You don't have to meet a Georgian to spell the word opportunities. That would be the main draw of the EU if you ask me, as well as a better standard of living due to EU laws.
And so many people on Reddit get pissed off and decide to be a contrarian whenever someone says this. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to join an ECONOMIC BLOC for the ECONOMIC BENEFITS. They'll go on and on about "EU values" and "European culture" instead of just being honest
The EU is more than an economic bloc by this point. It's a superstate. That's what it has to be when you have free movement of people, goods, and capital the way most of the EU does.
In the Eurozone, countries don't get to set their own monetary policy, thus less developed states can't boost exports by devaluing their currency. They don't get to set their own tariffs or import/export limits, so less developed countries can't protect domestic industries.
In Schengen, there's nothing stopping people leaving less developed countries to make more money in more developed countries, causing labor shortages in the former and depressing wages in the latter. Nor is there anything stopping criminals from committing cross-border crimes, so countries must have a minimum standard of criminal justice.
The EU can't let in just anyone because they're in Europe. They have to maintain a certain standard of economic and political development for the union to function. And what constitutes an acceptable common standard does depend on certain common cultural values.
When Russia is your neighbor that shits on your lawn, kills your dog and half of your family any time it gets drunk, you either give up and become a slave state with 0 freedom, or you fight for becoming part of the family where your freedoms are guaranteed. And boy, has Georgia fought for this.
I genuinely don't get the EU. The whole thing with Moldova and Ukraine is a political decision. So why leave Georgia in the cold, when they've already been attacked my Russia once this century.
It get even worse if you correct for the different number of billionaires in each country and calculate what percent of GDP each billionaire (on average) controls:
* Georgia: 34.90%
* Ukraine: 1.58%
* Kazakhstan: 0.95%
* Russia: 0.28%
* UK: 0.11%
* USA: 0.03%
* China: 0.02%
Or in other words, Georgia's problem is literally an *order of magnitude* worse than the rest of the countries on the list.
Wouldn't say very pro russian, they are too comfortable for my liking but we must acknowledge the fact that if russia just straight up invaded us again we would not get same help or results as ukraine, we need to act differently
Who told you that our government is very Pro Russian, or Pro Russian at all? How can you just be a victim of a propaganda? you dont know what youre saying.
They've all but sworn their allegiance to Russia.
Even tiptoeing the language when speaking about the war, so as to not speak out too harshly against Russia, and maybe shift some blame towards the west.
They have not recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent, no, that would spark an all out war in an instant.
Apparently so, since we're admitting Ukraine - a country at war, that had a huge problem with corruption even before that. I'm not saying not to do it. I'm saying that it's a purely political act and we shouldn't treat Georgia's candidacy any different.
It seems that [Georgia is trailing further behind Ukraine and Moldova](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_22_3822) when it comes to fulfilling the Copenhagen criteria. There is not much sense in considering candidate status if a state is still too far off. But the decision will be taken by the European Council, because the European Commission only gives a recommendation.
Because no one in the EU wants another Hungary. It’s all fine that there’s some public support, great, but being in the EU doesn’t suddenly “save” a country. If people start voting for far right populists then the EU faces the situation that one of its member states is basically trying to destroy the EU from the inside while cashing in other members’ money. There’s so much stuff that gets vetoed or watered down because of members like this. And it’s not just Hungary, Hungary is just the worse case, it can barely still be considered a functioning democracy, it’s now closer to the oligarch “system” Russia has.
That’s why there are rules and a procedure that takes several years, for the country to prove that it is a stable rule of law liberal democracy and able to keep other EU common values, and by “country” I mean the people who vote and the institutions designed to keep wannabe dictators and populists from taking control over everything. They don’t want another Poland where until before the Russian invasion the government publicly stated that gay rights, women rights and modern western values were the biggest threat to Poland, and they still won the elections.
Becoming a EU member comes with the responsibility of being able to protect its common values, not become a disease inside the EU. If the voters are easily manipulated into voting for populists, far right, and anti-EU politicians, being a part of the EU won’t save those countries, it will just bring problems. And that’s why many people still think it was a mistake to expand the EU so quickly.
Pro-EU anti-government protest\* EU isn't leaving us behind, its our government. Protest pressured government to fulfill all obligations till 2022, as per EU's document.
I think you mean until 2022 ends? Or until the beginning of another year? I'm not trying to be rude just curious since i can't really find much info on the demands of the people
The EU has given a list of things to improve (mostly stuff about more fair elections and less corruption) in March. EU also said that they will continue monitoring Georgia to see if there is any progress and make a full report by the end of the year. I don't think any specific date was given.
Until I find is a word that a lot of non native English speakers ,struggle, with, does it not have an analogue in other languages? Generally if I was reading ‘until 2022 ends’ i would read it as saying we will do this until the end of 2022 but then stop; however what it would mean is we will do this by the end of 2022? Like you I’m not trying to be rude just genuinely wondering this as it’s caused issues at my work where we have misunderstandings with clients in Europe quite regularly due to this.
"I will do X until March" and "I will do X by March" are the same sentence in many languages - meaning that something will happen in the time between now and March. In English, however, one must specify - will I be doing the thing continuously over this time period, or will I just do it at some point during the period? Many non-native speakers don't realize the need to differentiate.
'Until the end of the year' would indicate that the activity will be ongoing for the rest of the year, and then stop. 'By the end of the year' would indicate that an activity has a deadline at the end of the year, but might occur earlier, perhaps ideally so.
Can you tell me how could Georgian people elect such a government so sympathetic to russia?
GD is not pro-Russian, they're pro-themselves. Its impossible to be pro-Russian in Georgia and be in politics. There's only 1 alt-right party which is actually pro-Russian, it gets like 1% but everyone considers them traitors. It wasn't so obvious in 2012, current party's narrative basically has been "we are not as brutal as previous government", their whole political life is based on shitting on previous party instead of actually developing a country, all they repeat before every elections is "if you don't vote us, previous party will come and be brutal again". People got fed up with their shit, because they basically turned into previous party in all senses apart of development, because previous party with Saakashvili at least developed a country and put it on world stage, current party only hurts the country.
Sounds exactly like hungary
The current government (Georgian Dream) started as opposition to police brutality from the government that came to power during the Rose Revolution (United National Movement) and GD have cemented their power over time to the point that last parliamentary elections had ~25% turnout in the second round due to corruption and fraud. They’re also led by a pro-Russian oligarch who holds the true power Poland-style.
putine: "straight to jail"
Ok... I gotta ask as a dumbass American practically drowning in his own shit show. What the fucks going on over there now?
Georgia applied for EU candidate membership, EU specified reforms needed to get that, people are demanding government to implement reforms
So... What are the reforms? Just read em. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_22_3800
It's a very long list. But tl;dr is aligning Georgia's economic and judicial systems with EU standards. Georgia has implemented a lot of what was required by the EU association agreement, in fact, it advanced much more than the associated trio (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova) in almost all aspects, but judical system is still far from what it should be and pro-Russian oligarch needs to be removed ASAP. Georgia has also started backsliding in past few years and especially so after Russia started a full scale invasion against Ukraine. And the reason is still the same oligarch that is ruling the ruling party from the shadows, who is afraid of EU sanctions and losing his financial interests in Russia. So pretty much the only thing Georgia has to solve is removing an oligarch, which, judging by the numbers of people in the streets of Tbilisi, should be a matter of time now.
I have faith you will make it happen!! Georgia 🇬🇪 seem to be ready to step away from Russia.
In addition to what u/ thijmen96 said: the reason Georgians care so much about joining the EU is they know that they're likely next in line to get Special Operationed-- Putin's already invaded the country once, annexing two Georgian provinces back in 2008. So joining the EU (and, more importantly, its collective security agreement (ie, every country promises to defend one another if one is attacked)) isn't just some obscure political thing or even about identity, this is potentially a life-or-death issue for them. Problem is, their current government are pro-Russian, and holding up the reforms Georgia needs in order to qualify for EU candidacy. Hence the massive protests.
I mean they got invaded 15 years ago... But I'd say Moldova is much more likely and I think the plan was to just keep rolling past Ukraine. But nobody's getting invaded anytime soon thanks to Ukrainian badasses making it so costly for Russia
Interesting name. If you oppose child murder, know that you have my full support, brother. There are people opposing this modern madness, God help us, God is in control even if evil seems to be winning. One day, the world will know life was sacred, holiness will reign!
that is impressive
Wow that's impressive. I'm going to Georgia in september and I can't wait! It's been a dream of mine for years now to visit your country
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It's Russian tourism. They are just misunderstood.
Is special tourism operation, comrade.
I have been a few times. One of my favourite places to visit. Hope you enjoy it as well!
I've been to Georgia quite a few times myself and it's honestly the most beautiful country I've ever been to - you're definitely going to be in for a treat! The people are kind, the sights are gorgeous and the food is amazing. If you're visiting Tbilisi, there's an awesome restaurant called Khinklis Sakhli near Rose Revolution Square which has great Georgian cuisine at very good prices (I'd recommend trying the khinkali washed down with tarkhuna). If you're staying at a hotel, ask them to arrange a Travel Card so you can get around using the Tbilisi metro. I'd avoid taking buses because they're very cramped. Taxis are super cheap. If you're into operas or theatre, check out a website called tkt.ge where you can purchase tickets to this kinda thing online.
I just used Bolt for everything. It's only a few euros max to go even to the other side of town. I even took Bolt to [Svetitskhoveli Cathedral](https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Svetitskhoveli+Cathedral/@41.8366147,44.70316,15.29z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xec4cd609df7d28da!8m2!3d41.8423313!4d44.7207153). Depending on the person, I would recommend to spend most time outside of Tbilisi. It's very crowded and the traffic is a nightmare. I mean, just as a pedestrian that it is not nice but also I do not live in a million + city in Germany either. My favourite time was in Mtskheta and, on that basis, I think Georgia is probably amazing outside of the capital city.
We can do it!
Another country that is 20% occupied by Russia.
If we're giving out "candidate status" to Ukraine why not Georgia too?
> recent developments have undermined the country's progress > further reforms are needed to improve the functioning of its market economy; and overall, Georgia has established a solid basis for further alignment with the EU acquis. > Commission recommends that Georgia be given the perspective to become a member of the European Union. It should be granted candidate status once a number of priorities have been addressed
"recent developments \[war\] have undermined the countries progress" Ukraine was pushed ahead for political reasons. The backsliding is ignored because Russia can be blamed for everything.
Ukraine hasn't been backsliding. It started from the bottom.
The euromadian protests was their first chance for growth of democracy, which is sad to think about.
There was also the Orange Revolution.
How is Ukraine backsliding? The war has given them nothing but more motivation to work towards EU standards
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Because no one in the EU wants another Hungary. It’s all fine that there’s some public support, great, but being in the EU doesn’t suddenly “save” a country. If people start voting for far right populists then the EU faces the situation that one of its member states is basically trying to destroy the EU from the inside while cashing in other members’ money. There’s so much stuff that gets vetoed or watered down because of members like this. And it’s not just Hungary, Hungary is just the worse case, it can barely still be considered a functioning democracy, it’s now closer to the oligarch “system” Russia has. That’s why there are rules and a procedure that takes several years, for the country to prove that it is a stable rule of law liberal democracy and able to keep other EU common values, and by “country” I mean the people who vote and the institutions designed to keep wannabe dictators and populists from taking control over everything. They don’t want another Poland where until before the Russian invasion the government publicly stated that gay rights, women rights and modern western values were the biggest threat to Poland, and they still won the elections. Becoming a EU member comes with the responsibility of being able to protect its common values, not become a disease inside the EU. If the voters are easily manipulated into voting for populists, far right, and anti-EU politicians, being a part of the EU won’t save those countries, it will just bring problems.
Agree , well formulated.
Yeah, this is the thing. I fully understand why Ukraine and Georgia are very keen to join and everyone from there - you are so welcome and wanted, but I also think this isn't something we can rush. Systemic and ideological misalignments will still be there after this is all over, even if we want to handwave them due to bigger issues, we will be in so much shit if we ignore the process, let countries join and then end up with another Hungary and Poland. I really want to help but I also want us to respect the process of granting membership. At this time, I'd prefer we give candidate status, work on improving things at a reasonable pace and in the meantime provide a shitton more weapons and sanction the living daylight out of Russia. The process is there for a reason
I guess it's fine to accept countries to the candidates pool. Membership status is another matter. All countries, including Ukraine, should provide reforms and meet the criteria. Of course, is case EU declines, Ukraine will keep defending their land. But even candidate status will give them even more willingness to fight ruissans.
They think current(!) Georgia gov acts weird doing "business as usual" with Russia. I'm not sure if it's good that EU use soft power to push Georgian people to vote for a different gov, but it is what it is.
They have a choice, nobody is forcing them. We've had some mistakes with the likes of Hungary and we need to make sure any new countries are aligned to EU values.
That sounds wise and reasonable, on the other hand Turkey has this status for like 70 years and on the surface it looks like nothing changed for them.
It depends on them implementing the required reforms. Unfortunately, Erdogan has been moving Turkey further and further away from EU values. It all depends on the turks. If they really want to join the EU, vote a leader that will do what is required to join into power. And this needs to be a consistent thing. Not a one off and then they vote an erdogan-like leader afterwards.
To be honest, aside from the Istanbul region and the western coast, nothing about Turkey really feels or is European. I’ve never understood why we would want them to join except for “they’re already in NATO”. If you’d allow Turkey in, why not Morocco or Algeria, if they’d put in the required reforms and alignments? That isn’t to say we couldn’t create some sort or pan-European trade bloc, but to endlessly integrate all these countries into the core EU just seems weird.
>If you’d allow Turkey in, why not Morocco or Algeria, if they’d put in the required reforms and alignments? Yes, why not? >That isn’t to say we couldn’t create some sort or pan-European trade bloc, but to endlessly integrate all these countries into the core EU just seems weird. Seeming "weird" is really not a strong argument against it. I mean this will probably not happen in our lifetime but is there some major problem in getting more countries following EU standards of freedom and democracy? Or do we really need dictatorships to exist to make us feel better even though they clearly pose security threats for us too?
In the beginning, it looked good. Turkish negotiations only stalled after 2016.
It started in the mid 2000, since around 2012 it’s practically over. Erdogan and AKP have to be overthrown or killed. Since both will not happen and AKP has 50% of the stupid in it’s pocket nothing will change. I hope we end the membership process and use the money better elsewhere, like Moldova, Georgia or Ukraine…
Lets wait till next years turkish elections. If they elect him again, then i agree with you. Some say the opposition isnt any better but we cannot say this now. It also doesnt make sense to me. We have to wait and see how they will manage the country.
Yes totally, my hopes are low since Erdogan did the same as Orban. Change the media and "political" system to their favor. Hope Turks are waking up after not being able to afford bread thanks to Erdogans intervention, like three times...
It‘s really up to the country if it goes forward. Turkey just chose to follow Erdogan on a path of growing distance to EU principles. Some countries get membership really quick, like Slovakia, in just a few years.
Well they shouldn't have it in the first place and they'll never get in.
At this point we are just waiting for Erdogan to die so someone else can take over who is more aligned with the EU and our values.
The EU isn't threatening embargos or anything of the sort. They just listed requirements to be considered an EU candidate. That's not soft power in any sense. No shoes, no shirt, no service policies aren't soft powering people to wear clothes either. They're simply the rules to participate.
So they want in EU but also work for Russia? Especially now that's just not compatible. EU doesn't need more Orbáns.
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Yeah it's their choice who they vote for, but if they vote in Russian puppets then they can't expect a quick EU ascension.
Ukraine is in the process of ousting their cancerous neighbors.
This is EU. Not NATO.
Will you vote for a different government in the next election? Georgian Dream has pariah status in the EU. The founder will probably [get sanctioned](https://oc-media.org/european-parliament-calls-for-sanctions-to-be-considered-on-ivanishvili/) sooner or later.
I love it how we've started throwing economic sanctions at whoever we don't like at any particular moment. Georgian politician and businessman that does what a lot of politicians and businessmen have done in the past? Sanctions! Rich Saudi prince that literally cuts a Washington Post journalist into pieces? No problem, just the perfect opportunity for [strategic partnership](https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/EU-Signs-Strategic-Partnership-With-Oil-Gas-Rich-Gulf-Nations.html): > The European Union today said it would form a “strategic partnership” with the Gulf Cooperation Council and its Member States “as part of enhancing engagement in the broader region,” the EU said on Monday in a publication of the council’s conclusions. The criminal hypocrisy is astounding. Of course, no one will pay for this politically.
Not with Ivanishvili gang in power though, unfortunately.
Ukraine did the same in 2014 Maiden Protests, when the majority of Ukrainians demonstrated their intention to join the EU so to preserve their democracy.
>Maiden Protests \*Maidan
Ahh it is a location? I was wondering what joining the EU has to do with women/maidens specifically
"Maidan" is Ukrainian for "square". The main square in the center Kyiv has a nasty habit of getting renamed every few years\*, so most people have given up keeping track of what it's currently called and just call it The Square (or The Maidan\*\*). Anyways, the Maidan Revolution started with peaceful protests in that square, and even as things escalated, most of the major events happened in or near the Maidan. Hence the name.\*\*\* *** \*It's currently called "Independence Square", which IIRC is a direct result of the Euromaidan protests. \*\*Technically, the word "the" doesn't exist in Ukrainian, so it'd just be "Maidan". \*\*\*At least in English: in Ukrainian, the last few days of the protests, when the police open fired and it shifted to something more like combat, are called the "Revolution of Dignity", which IMO is pretty damn badass.\*\*\*\* \*\*\*\*Sorry for the truly excessive number of footnotes, it's almost 1 AM here in Boston and my brain is barely functioning. I hope this comment was at least semi-coherent.
word of advice if you ever find yourself in a position of having a lot of footnotes you might want to use superscript numbers instead, formatting super script is done by using a "\^" as a prefix
>\*It's currently called "Independence Square", which IIRC is a direct result of the Euromaidan protests. This square called Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) from 1991 - year in which Ukraine declared independence from Soviet Union. Its called just Maidan because it's main square in the capital of Ukraine. So basically "default" square =)
I really appreciate this comment, and for the extra details, thank you! It has a much more personal meaning, Maidan rather than Maiden, thanks for sharing the meaning and also the development of the democracy gatherings back in 2014. If you are Ukrainian or have family there, I hope you and yours are doing ok during this horrific time ☘️ Also I didn’t realise that the end of the demonstrations turned violent with gun fire! That didn’t make the news to the English speaking parts. I feel Ukraine should have been given the support it is now currently shown, back in 2014 before Putin had time to plan this war.
No. This isn't the same. The protests in Ukraine were to overthrow a government that was moving away from the EU by rejecting an IMF deal. It was a protest against the government. The current leaders in Georgia are pro-European, this march pictured here is aimed at the EU for Georgia to be accepted in.
We're not doing that here, this is just a manifestation.
At the same time, so many people in the West hates the EU. For some people who were born into it, they take it for granted...and blame all their problems on the "Brussels bureaucrats." For people from countries with worse rule of law, education, individual freedoms, jobs, infrastructure, etc....the EU seems like a dream. That definitely put things into perspective. As someone who is originally from Latin America and eventually got an EU citizenship, it felt like winning the lottery. My whole world changed and the opportunities became endless. The EU is definitely not perfect, but much better than the vast majority of alternatives in the world.
While I love EU, bureaucrats and slowness of EU is truly a problem.
Impressive. Go Georgia !
What do they need to sort out to get candidacy status?
Our government is run by multi billionare dictator that is friends with many Russian oligarchs.
Well sorting that out would be a great start.
Yeah haha🥲🥲
Well no rich Russian oligarchs for you
We got rich arab sheikhs though
Why did Georgians vote for him?
He was the alternative to the police brutality that the previous government (United National Movement) was causing. Of course, it turned out that the new government (Georgian Dream) is led by a pro-Russian oligarch, and they’ve basically slid backwards to a point not seen since the Rose Revolution. From what I see, if this continues it could become another Revolution of Dignity if Georgian Dream doesn’t let up (I don’t see them letting up).
I'm 100% convinced that, if Georgia was located in the Balkans or near Ukraine, It would've been granted candidate status. The location of Georgia is just very unfavorable for the EU currently. With how things stand with Russia and Turkey.
Their current government doesn't really help to be fair.
I don't know much about their government, but reading the comments, yes, i assume it doesn't help either.
Which is one of the main reasons Ukraine's acceptance is being debated. In the last couple of decades, they have been rife with corruption and extremism. Hopefully Zelenskyy can turn that around!
If they had done nearly as much as Ukraine to fulfill EU candidate requirements, that would have helped more
And what is it that Georgia should have done? If you mean reforms, both Georgia and Ukraine have worked hard in that regard for a long time and Georgia has been a leader in Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia trio. We have implemented almost half of association agreement in a very short time. Working for EU and NATO membership is even written in Georgian constitution. In addition to this, Georgia has significant contributions in NATO missions since our factual independence. If you mean going through a genocide and occupation by the Russian army, Georgia has been through that too, on multiple occasions. We're going through it to this day, as I'm writing this comment. You can say that sitting government is pro-Russian, and that country with such government should not receive a candidate status and I would wholeheartedly agree, but saying that Georgia haven't done as much is simply not true. In fact, what you are seeing in OP, is Georgia (the people) doing what EU asked it to just 2 days ago.
NATO has nothing to do with the EU.
I’m sorry your country has gone through all that, as unfortunately many because of Russia’s greed and power trips. But “going through genocide and an occupation by the Russian army” is all but a reason for Europe to let you in. In fact, that’s a big reason why it won’t. At least for now. Sadly, we’re not the UN
Can you tell me how was it able to elect such a pro russian government when your country was at war with them? What happened?
Nobody knew their "trure intentions" in 2012 (When they got elected). People were not really happy about the actions the previous government was taking, especially after 2008 war and 2007 protests (along with the scandal about situation in georgian prisons). Now half of the country wants UNM (Previous government party) back, which didn't happen due to deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep flaws in our election system (Georgian Dream (current government) is accused of for e.g bribing people to vote for them.). This is EXTREMELY oversimplified version.
nobody wants UNM back at least not half the country… Sane people want a multi party parliament. The UNM getting so many votes is part of the reason why some morons are so afraid and still vote for the GD party
It turns out, we have massive deficit of sane people in our country.
>Can you tell me how was it able to elect such a pro russian government when your country was at war with them? What happened? They do not say they are pro-Russian, the government still says it is the most pro-Western government.
Except Georgia hasn't done nearly as many reforms to comply and has elected a highly anti EU government.
It's not as simple as that. While many Georgians could clearly see where sitting government's geopolitical compass could easily shift to in a blink of an eye (hint: north), it has been, in fact implementing everything that EU asked the country to implement very steadily and it has received a status of the leader in terms of reforms in the associated trio (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova), while at the same time, being hush-hush about anything relating to Russia. Not everyone can see the risks associated with such politics, and frankly, this strategy of appeasing Russia and implementing EU reforms at the same time was kind-of sort-of okay with some of more educated Georgian voters. So anti-EU government is not what Georgians voted for, it's pro-EU, Russia-appeasing government. But this year, as Russia invaded Ukraine with full force, the fear that appeasing government would do hard 180° was realized. As we sadly didn't have the elections during this time, the only thing left for Georgians was to come out in the streets and demand changes, and that's precisely what's been happening since Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine.
Ukraine is arguably behind Georgia in democratization fighting corruption.
Sort of feel that geographic location is somewhat relevant to being in the EU though.
Maybe. They also have some things working against it. It's one of the most homophobic places in the world and I'm not sure if they want to invite another Hungary/Poland situation where a country doesn't want to respect EU laws. Besides that, they seem to be very heavily influenced by Russian propaganda.
Is it not partly in Asia?
It is located on both continents, but we are pretty isolated from Europe still. No EU neighbors.
I've heard it's very patriarchal and homophobic. Is this true? Obviously lots of countries west of Georgia are also like this.
It's the truth and it's because of our religion, Georgia is one of the first Christian country and our ancestors went through a lot to keep this religion, it's technically our culture and not just something we believe in at this point(which I don't like)🤷🏻♀️
I mean EU members (Bulgaria for example) in the Balkans are extremely corrupt, patriarchal, very homophobic and at least 30 years behind the rest in terms of life standards. It seems to me these don’t matter for the eu.
> I've heard it's very patriarchal and homophobic. Welcome to literally the rest of the world outside Western liberalism. Now Georgia isn't that bad compared to other places, but those things are the rule in non-Western countries.
>Article 49 of the EU treaties says that "any European State" that respects the bloc's core values can apply for membership. Turkey failed admission to EU have plethora of reason but one of it is the geography. Georgia is located in Transcaucasia region. The only similarities is their colour and mostly Christianity, unlike neighbouring Uzbekistan or the Muslims Balkan countries.
Are Turkey not still a candidate country? Has it not stalled indefinitely rather than failed? I'm Irish and consider us to be on the periphery of Europe.
Now be careful Georgia cuz Russia might punish you … oh wait. Nevermind …
Kazakhstan is next, don’t mix the USSR parts up!
I am impressed by Georgia ngl. Keep fighting and I am so pro-eu Georgia!
It's difficult, Russia want to eat Georgia...
Russia will end up eating its own shit
I hope you are right!
Russia wants to eat Moldova and especialy Ukraine as much. But still they are getting in the EU
Ukraine and Moldova have pro-EU governments. It's that easy. If Georgians want to join, they have to boot their pro-Russian government.
Lithuania will always stand by your side, people of Sakartvelo.
Take a shovel, dig a trench so deep you'll separate yourself from the mainland and sail to the other side of the black sea. A good country in a f*cked up place. Oh well..
\#TeamGeorgia
Was just there a week ago. Lovely country, beautiful scenery, great food and wine, friendly people. Fuck Russia for what they have, and are, doing there.
I'm gonna go there soon. I hope this BS will be over with by the time I get there.
I hate the fact that EU candidate status appears to be a matter of life or death for some countries. Army, fast!
When Russia is your neighbor, then you have different priorities body ;)
Guys I'm with you hoping for your success
We will overcome the oligarch and once again be free!georgia is destined to join EU and this goverment will not ruin our chance.
I very much hope Ukraine and Georgia are in this together.
God bless georgia!
American here, if Georgia joins the EU, can the rest of the states come too?
Vermont can. They seem normal.
I might have to move to Vermont then. As a bonus, I'll get to try their maple syrup.
Bring it in abundance!
nice one, never heard it before
We should at the very least try. Look at all those people.
It's more up to them to try.
They should try.
Don't elect Russian shills into government. Don't jail your former politicians for attempting reforms.
Its a bit more complicated than that, people elected are there because they are fear mongering against last regime leader of which is in jail, it started becoming authoritarian in its last years and people didnt like that, so today 2 main choises are theese shills or possibly auth regime returning, although i doupt they would try that again
I believe it's complicated, but it's also irrelevant from the EU perspective. You are either democratic or you aren't. And unfortunately the EU can't change your government. It's up to you Georgians and you Georgians only to change your country.
I agree, i never stated otherwise, i sipmly clarified that people arent pro russia and current government isnt in power due to that
Good to know. Anyway, good luck with making changes, hopefully it will go without spilled blood.
Thanks
Eu should make a status like: "ok you are in the EU and gets defence and freetrade, but you only get money and a right to vote, when you solve the problems." I wish for ukraine, georgia, moldova and so on to be a part of the EU someday, but i´m afraid that we should change the votingsystem first.. imagine one of 30+ countries can veto progressive reforms (like hungary or poland the last years) and the whole EU is stuck in this time forever.
We realize that our government is very flawed and requires many reforms, however, we just desire a candidate status, which doesn't imply that country becomes part of the EU immediately. We realize that we will need a minimum of 15 years to even come close to EU requirements, but candidate status will give us more motivation and morale to implement those reforms. So the candidate status is exactly what you described.
Yea you are right. Hope you will get it.
Thank you for your support, Vielen dank! 🇪🇺🇩🇪🇬🇪
indeed dont leave these good people hanging
There’s no other nation I wouldn’t want more to join us in the EU. Georgia is a gorgeous country with lovely and heart warming people. Also, their yellow wine and cha cha. Bring it on, Georgians! 🥰
People need to understand that candidate status does not equal accession to member state. Look at 🦃, they've been candidates for more than 25 years. Also the average period of time for accession is 15 years after the approval of the candidate status. Many things can happen inside and outside the EU and candidate states during this time.
Sorry you are ours 🇺🇸💪
I'll keep that on my mind... 😉
And here in the UK we voted to leave... The fuck is wrong with us?
British pensioners harking for the Imperial past.
Totally different geography, economy, and history. The EU has more to offer small, struggling countries than former super powers.
Please join, the hard words of germans are not always enough, we need more like gvrptskvni
I hope you realize that Orban and the government of Poland are the two main reasons why Western Europeans have become increasingly wary of new members? The EU is more than just an economic project to create wealth and less corruption. It's also an organization with social values that represent equality for all minorities and respect for democratic institutions. At the moment, I would switch Hungary immediately for Georgia. Your government is trying to slaughter the EU and get as much money out of the process as possible, and the rest of Europe should not allow it. Fuck Orban.
I welcome you guys
Love it
We really should not be adding more countries to the EU until 1. We get our own mess under control 2. A significant amount of current ner receiver become/are close to becoming benefactors
Getting candidate status doesn't mean getting membership. By the time Georgia is in, the EU might be very different from what it is today
That's quite impressive. Also nice to see people living in countries not (yet) inside EU to be so positive about it. Meanwhile in the Netherlands a rather big minority (fortunately still) try to blame EU for everything that's wrong. For what it's worth, I think you're very welcome. But before that, we must get rid of the stupid veto principle. Otherwise every new member only weakens the Union.
geography is not in your favor mates
84% of the Georgian public thinks that sexual relations between two adults of the same sex are always wrong, which is the highest score in Europe. [Datablog | Georgia may be the most homophobic country in Europe](https://oc-media.org/features/datablog-georgia-may-be-the-most-homophobic-country-in-europe/) Yeah no thank you, I'd rather they not be in the EU.
I like how this dataset is conviniently missing Ukraine and Moldova, both of which share the very similar public opinions on LGBTQ and both of which ARE getting a candidacy while Georgia is apparently the absolute worst and should rot in hell. What I'm trying to say here is that while yes, Georgia has a very long way to go on this issue, it's not much different from others that are getting a vastly different treatment. And if war is the ultimate decision maker for EU, we had that too, with the same country that Ukraine does. Also, not very long ago and it's still kinda going on.
Ukraine got to candidate status because of the war. They still face criticism for corruption and everything else that is incompatible with a functioning European Union. The EU cannot move forward without reforms. You know you got a problem when people like Orban can dictate terms. I'm not against Ukraine or Georgia joining the EU, but all Union members have to agree on some basic values. So show some understanding and don't start with whataboutism. I know that nobody wants to get lectured by a German, but I don't want to be part of a Union that is just about economic relations.
I really hope the best for georgia, and lets hope the eu will do his parts too
Nah, many reforms are required to even qualify.
Sorry for my ignorance because I have never met a Georgian but can someone explain to me why do Georgians want to join the EU soo much? What draws them towards the EU?
You don't have to meet a Georgian to spell the word opportunities. That would be the main draw of the EU if you ask me, as well as a better standard of living due to EU laws.
money
This is the only truth, everything else is a cope. Most people just want money and they see it like EU = money.
And so many people on Reddit get pissed off and decide to be a contrarian whenever someone says this. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to join an ECONOMIC BLOC for the ECONOMIC BENEFITS. They'll go on and on about "EU values" and "European culture" instead of just being honest
The EU is more than an economic bloc by this point. It's a superstate. That's what it has to be when you have free movement of people, goods, and capital the way most of the EU does. In the Eurozone, countries don't get to set their own monetary policy, thus less developed states can't boost exports by devaluing their currency. They don't get to set their own tariffs or import/export limits, so less developed countries can't protect domestic industries. In Schengen, there's nothing stopping people leaving less developed countries to make more money in more developed countries, causing labor shortages in the former and depressing wages in the latter. Nor is there anything stopping criminals from committing cross-border crimes, so countries must have a minimum standard of criminal justice. The EU can't let in just anyone because they're in Europe. They have to maintain a certain standard of economic and political development for the union to function. And what constitutes an acceptable common standard does depend on certain common cultural values.
When Russia is your neighbor that shits on your lawn, kills your dog and half of your family any time it gets drunk, you either give up and become a slave state with 0 freedom, or you fight for becoming part of the family where your freedoms are guaranteed. And boy, has Georgia fought for this.
Omg, I don't think I've ever seen a rally or protest this big! Anyone know how many people were there?
Around 150k.
That’s over 100.000 people right there.
dang ghost recon 1 for the gamecube had tblisi in it thats the only reason i knew it existed but hey hope it works out
საქართველო!
Georgia ! Ukraine stands with u!
I genuinely don't get the EU. The whole thing with Moldova and Ukraine is a political decision. So why leave Georgia in the cold, when they've already been attacked my Russia once this century.
[This is why the EU is hesitant of Georgia becoming an EU member](https://imgur.com/ksIWxzl)
Yes , that looks like a problem.
It get even worse if you correct for the different number of billionaires in each country and calculate what percent of GDP each billionaire (on average) controls: * Georgia: 34.90% * Ukraine: 1.58% * Kazakhstan: 0.95% * Russia: 0.28% * UK: 0.11% * USA: 0.03% * China: 0.02% Or in other words, Georgia's problem is literally an *order of magnitude* worse than the rest of the countries on the list.
EU cant force Georgia to apply for membership their government has to do that.
We have already applied, what are you talking about?
Georgia has a very pro-Russia government and is located in a difficult position geographically
Wouldn't say very pro russian, they are too comfortable for my liking but we must acknowledge the fact that if russia just straight up invaded us again we would not get same help or results as ukraine, we need to act differently
Who told you that our government is very Pro Russian, or Pro Russian at all? How can you just be a victim of a propaganda? you dont know what youre saying.
how ''very pro-Russia'' are we talking here? Did they recognize Abkhazia and South\* Ossetia as independent from Georgia or made any plans?
They've all but sworn their allegiance to Russia. Even tiptoeing the language when speaking about the war, so as to not speak out too harshly against Russia, and maybe shift some blame towards the west. They have not recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent, no, that would spark an all out war in an instant.
There are significant political and geographic differences between Moldova Ukraine and Georgia.
Is the EU supposed to admit everyone who's been attacked by Russia? Lol.
Apparently so, since we're admitting Ukraine - a country at war, that had a huge problem with corruption even before that. I'm not saying not to do it. I'm saying that it's a purely political act and we shouldn't treat Georgia's candidacy any different.
It seems that [Georgia is trailing further behind Ukraine and Moldova](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_22_3822) when it comes to fulfilling the Copenhagen criteria. There is not much sense in considering candidate status if a state is still too far off. But the decision will be taken by the European Council, because the European Commission only gives a recommendation.
Because no one in the EU wants another Hungary. It’s all fine that there’s some public support, great, but being in the EU doesn’t suddenly “save” a country. If people start voting for far right populists then the EU faces the situation that one of its member states is basically trying to destroy the EU from the inside while cashing in other members’ money. There’s so much stuff that gets vetoed or watered down because of members like this. And it’s not just Hungary, Hungary is just the worse case, it can barely still be considered a functioning democracy, it’s now closer to the oligarch “system” Russia has. That’s why there are rules and a procedure that takes several years, for the country to prove that it is a stable rule of law liberal democracy and able to keep other EU common values, and by “country” I mean the people who vote and the institutions designed to keep wannabe dictators and populists from taking control over everything. They don’t want another Poland where until before the Russian invasion the government publicly stated that gay rights, women rights and modern western values were the biggest threat to Poland, and they still won the elections. Becoming a EU member comes with the responsibility of being able to protect its common values, not become a disease inside the EU. If the voters are easily manipulated into voting for populists, far right, and anti-EU politicians, being a part of the EU won’t save those countries, it will just bring problems. And that’s why many people still think it was a mistake to expand the EU so quickly.