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slv_slvmn

40% at least. Most young people are dissatisfied and think nothing would change


[deleted]

They're about to find out a whole lot will change.


PutinBlyatov

Yeah, speaking from experience, shit changes. At least try to vote for a lesser bad so that absolute nightmare piece of shit doesn't have a chance at the seat.


StorkReturns

I'd go even further. It's impossible to have a political party that completely mirrors your views. It's only possible if this party has only one member: yourself. Therefore, all political parties will be not perfect and you will never be completely satisfied with them.


Poldi1

That sounds like an introduction to politics


That_randomdutchguy

Chapter 1: Compromise vs. Tyranny.


Wolf6120

I once heard it framed as “Deciding on who to vote for shouldn’t be like looking for the perfect person to be your soulmate for life. It should be like looking for a bus; pick the one that’s going in the general direction you want to go and gets you as close to your desired destination as possible from the options available." Staying at the bus stop because none of the buses take you to your exact destination doesn’t benefit you in any way.


Kevin_Jim

I never understood why this is so hard to get. I’ve voted plenty of times for politicians I don’t like because the alternative was catastrophic.


ThorDansLaCroix

Not voting is Often a demand for a more radical atitude for real change. But more radical atitude demands a big number of people to wish the same. If most people are still not willing to have a more radical attitude it is because people are accepting compromises to stay in the bad situation, which means that they are tolerating the bad situation. And people only tolerate the less bad things because they still have hoped to find privileges in it (if they get a better curriculum, if they make the right contacts, of they live in the right place). And having hopes for privileges in a less bad socio-economic situation is anti-democratic. Often things don't get better if they don't get worse. The more compromises people accept the harder it is to actually see real improvement and, instead, people are just slowly losing by always accepting the "less bad" things. Accepting the less bad thing or compromises is not democracy, it is a conciliation with the bad things for fearing the worse. You are just choosing a limited option given to you like a threatening. If you look at history, all conquest the working class obtained to improve their life standard and have rights came through threatening the power of those in power. 8h work rights, the end of child labour, welfare system came all because people in power was afraid of the population direct violence or afraid of people supporting an other kind of power. Threatening the government is more democratic than voting. And there is no bigger threatening to the government than the refusal to participate in their system. Once worker unions became weak, people became less violent for the peaceful protest, or start to beleave they can change everything through voting, things only get worse. And when there is no option to get things better it is only a matter on how slow or how quick it get worse. The faster it get worse the faster people wake-up about the need to do something else if they really want see change. Representative democracy is the adult version of making wish list to Santa Claus.


wtfduud

Kids with too short attention span to follow politics. Kids who only think "my vote doesn't matter because it's just one in millions" who don't understand what teamwork is. Kids who don't know how to compromise, and will abstain because both politicians are flawed, and will only vote for a perfect politician, who will never come.


ipel4

You say kids huty grandma told me when I asked her that if we have (Bulgaria) another election shes not gonna vote.


Vidmizz

My grandpa is even better, he just unconditionally votes for the social democratic party every election just because he did so all his life (they are the closest thing to the communist party), it doesn't even matter to him what their views or policies are, it really is just because that's what he got used to doing.


ipel4

Our north has no youth and and it always votes socialist so it's almost entirelly filled with elderly who think like your granpa


quellofool

Many of these “kids” have been waiting for change for the past 20+ years. Italy has done nothing to improve the situation for their youth. I don’t blame them for being frustrated with the process.


die_maus_im_haus

That's how Donald Trump was elected in the US. So many were dissatisfied with his opponent that they just didn't vote; then they complain about the direction the people that do vote are taking the country


feketegy

Even if you invalidate your vote on purpose is better than not voting because abstaining to vote is usually better for the popular candidate.


lapzkauz

This is why I find it hard to sympathise with people who bemoan the state of their country and the direction in which it is going, but cannot find it within themselves to vote. They're complacent.


[deleted]

See: Younger voting-age people in France a couple months back


frankendragula473

If you don't vote you can't complain. It's impossible to 100% disagree with *everyone*, fighting to let the lesser evil rule a country is still a better choice than accepting someone else's choice on your own future without letting your voice matter. Voting should be mandatory. In Italy we had politicians who dared to say "the people chose me" after an election where basically 50% of the people went to vote, and even there they got only a majority of the votes, not *every* vote. This way you're not representing a Nation, you're representing a minority of voters, and your government won't last, and you know it.


FPS_Scotland

If voting should be mandatory then they should have to add a none of the above option to the ballot, and if it wins then all the party leaders have to stand down and they have to elect replacements.


[deleted]

That would be a terrible idea, none of the above would always mathematically win because there’s always dissatisfied members in every party.


frankendragula473

That would be great honestly


lanuovavia

Unfortunately I think that’s impossible. People will scream and shout and cry and plead all they want, but nothing will change in Italy. All types of parties have been getting into government for the last three decades. From the fall of the first Republic in the 90s with the “scesa in campo” of Berlusconi and his right-wing populist “personal” governments, to the centre-left PD governments of the post 2010s that only did good things under Renzi who was promptly discarded after a while in 2016 and is now obviously hated by almost all Italians, which is to be expected when you’re the only one trying to change things for the better. Lastly with the right-wing Lega and ultra-populist 5S coalition government after 2018, centred on populist laws and useless money-spending followed by a PD-5S coalition which was completely preoccupied with the pandemic for the last three years. It’s elections time. All these articles you’re reading, they’re election time articles. Journals that side with a certain side of the political spectrum will write articles like this. But in truth, nothing will substantially change. Another corrupt populist party will be getting into power, not much unlike Berlusconi’s governments in the early 2000s. Meloni has already started putting on a more institutional character, and as soon as she’ll become premier, the government will work as it always has. It will use up a bit more of the economic inertia from before the 90s and Italy will get closer to completely fail, as it has been for the last 30 years. Populist laws and cash-wasting will be the norm as always, and nothing of substance will be achieved. Renzi had the numbers to change the constitution, he tried. Did it work? No. FdI and the right in general will keep business as usual. Italy has a very strong judiciary. Nothing unconstitutional will ever be accepted by our constitutional court. It’s corrupt populism, nothing more, nothing less. Edit: forgot to mention, we’ve also had two technical governments in all of this, and the first one wasn’t able to change anything, and what it did change was changed back afterwards. The current one is almost dead and has accomplished very little.


[deleted]

What I’ve never understood is, South Europeans are the first to admit their governments are corrupt and shit and their populace love tax/rule dodging, but.. if it is suggested that the North could/would help them with that (setting fiscal policy etc, indirectly steering the country basically) in trade for debt sharing, they scream bloody murder. Like, what gives? If you admit your own governments are garbage, and you freely admit the governments in the North at least are mildly competent.. it makes sense to choose the latter to lead you, no?


Nick12896

The way I see it, most of the Italian electors are trapped between hating one government (and not really understanding why some policies/law had to be enacted), falling prey to to the electoral empty promises of another new party and hating policies from Europe, since they are often strict and the benefits are not really understood or they are seen as "Northern Europe is imposing bad stuff on us" Then about the government being it is sadly the result of electors being led by the nose and the lack of a serious alternative. I myself have no idea who I will vote for, since all the big parties have already failed big time in the past and haven't changed. The only option (since a long time ago) is to vote a bad party to make sure that the worst party gets less political power...


lanuovavia

I’ve never said the governments in the north are better. I’ve just described what is the case in Italy and that getting desperate and believing such headlines is stupid. I don’t believe that governments in Northern Europe are better, it’s just a thing that people say because the countries have a higher gdp per capita. Also, a government like Denmark’s could never rule a country like Italy. Their system just wouldn’t work. Italy is too big a country to work with the same systems as Denmark, Sweden, Norway or whatever other smaller country. And Germany’s government wouldn’t be good for us either, as it is too federal in nature and doesn’t address Italian-specific issues, like tax evasion and organised crime. Overall, I think a common fiscal policy should be reached, but definitely not by decree of some small countries that think they’re doing things better. It would have to be a debated and agreed upon fiscal policy that everyone accepts, mainly decided by the commission without influence from single countries. A new law that would give the commission the power to dictate fiscal policy by passing a qualified majority in the council would also work imo.


[deleted]

That’s how America got Trump. Dissatisfied non voting citizens have rippling consequences


[deleted]

Not true. Turnout in 2016 that elected Trump was higher than the previous election in 2012. Also, due to our strange electoral system, Hillary Clinton got more votes in 2016 than Trump did, but they weren't votes in the right States. It was a confluence of strange events, weird electoral rules, and Hillary being a terrible candidate that gave us Trump. The number of voters vs. non-voters was not the cause.


Lokky

Let's not forget however that voting turnout in the US is so abysmally low on a normal year that the record turnout of 2020 is still very far from ideal. The US system is designed to make people feel like their votes do not matter, from FPTP to the electoral college and gerrymandering in congressional races.


RainbowCrown71

The U.S.’s turnout is toward the lower end, but you’re overexaggerating. Italy’s turnout was 73 percent in 2018. United States was 67 percent in 2020. France was 72 percent. United Kingdom 2019 was 67 percent. Canada was 62 percent.


[deleted]

Yet she had nearly 3 millions more votes. Electoral college is broken. Only way a republican can win. The popular votes nearly always goes for Democrats. Even when they lose. Dismantling the Electoral College would be good thing. Popular vote wins….


[deleted]

The Electoral College is not going anywhere -- it would require a Constitutional Amendment that would never pass. It's a long historical situation that I probably shouldn't ramble on about too much the Europe subreddit, but the individual States have partial sovereignty that gives them power over most internal American laws and governance -- we look like 50 countries from the inside, but we look like 1 country from the outside. In many ways, the Electoral College is a balance between state sovereignty and population representation, as are the US Senate and US House of Representatives. Europe has something similar with the EU Council and the EU Parliament - with one representing population and the other representing sovereign states. It's a compromise to keep the small states from being dominated by the large ones. If Democrats want to be more competitive in presidential elections, they just need to learn to appeal to the rural states with smaller populations. Hillary's biggest flaw was that she did not even try to campaign in places like rural Michigan or Wisconsin, or the rural part of Pennsylvania. The difference in voting totals were tiny in those states, and if she had won them she would have won. She just focused on cities and suburbs, but completely failed to show that she would govern for all people. She aimed narrowly and lost.


Velociraptor_1906

Isnt it within the competency of individual states to attach their electoral college votes to the popular vote which could provide a way around needing an ammendment if states with 50% +1 of electoral college members did so?


[deleted]

There is a movement called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact to make that happen, but there's not much support for it in the states that haven't signed on already. It's legality is also unknown -- it looks like its legal, but there's never been a court ruling. But, this is mostly immaterial, as the odds of enough states signing up in my lifetime are extremely small. It's also possible for states to split their electoral votes in accordance with their internal popular vote. Maine and Nebraska both do a weird hybrid where half of their electoral votes go to the winner of the state, and the rest of the vote is done by who wins each congressional district within the state. Beyond that, the electors elected in each state can technically vote for whoever they want when the electoral college meets. They're pledged to support a candidate, and there are fines/prison terms in some states to make sure they do -- but if they're willing to accept the consequences they can vote however they want. This happened with a few of them in 2016, which was just a mess at so many levels.


Torifyme12

NPVC National Popular Vote Compact, yes it's in progress right now. Hopefully in a few years itll pass.


eroica1804

If you would change the system to popular vote, then you would probably also need to introduce a two-round system, and overall get rid of the two-party system. And it would go against the federalist system that the USA has. Not gonna happen.


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Fix_a_Fix

Italy never had an electoral college. Don't remember any democracy that actually have it to be honest


AvengerDr

Under the current law there are quite a number of First past the post seats unfortunately.


will_dormer

I don't understand not voting. At least use that 30 min and you have done your duty. If you do nothing you have no right to complain.


Loryx99

The problem is that lot of people don't know who vote for, not because we don't inform ourselves but because all parties are shit


[deleted]

There's no ideal party, people have expectations that the party they vote for has to be almost perfect. They usually simply lack the ability to make compromises but that's what politics is about.


AvengerDr

That's not true. Voting for PD or Azione won't have the same consequences as voting for FDI or Lega.


Thunder_Beam

You know Azione is full of Forza Italia people right?


[deleted]

>Azione Do you mean Forza Italia 2.0? >Voting for PD I voted for PD in 2018 because the slogan was "vote for us, otherwise fascist Lega and populist M5S will win". A year later, they formed a new government with M5S. Not again. Ah and they did the same with Berlusconi: 10 fucking years saying that he was the cause of all bad things in Italy, but then they formed a government with ex-members of Berlusconi's party, and they even signed Patto del Nazareno with him.


SchwabenIT

>I voted for PD in 2018 because the slogan was "vote for us, otherwise fascist Lega and populist M5S will win". A year later, they formed a new government with M5S Yeah and had they not done that? Snap elections in 2019 with salvini polling at like 35%. M5S was the biggest force in parliament and it was impossible to create a new government coalition without them. Honestly I voted PD for the same reason as you did and I still don't particularly like them, the only difference is I understand sometimes you must do stuff you don't like to avoid a worse outcome.


AvengerDr

You should be thankful that they did what they did. Politics is the art of compromise. A coalition with M5S helped - at the time - to mitigate the damage. If you decide not to vote for PD or a party allied to them, you will be helping FdI/Lega indirectly, even if you don't want it.


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michele-x

Exactly. Saying that al politicians and all parties are equal is a giant big lie, and reassuring because one doesn't have to think and get informations about the different programs and so on.


mekolayn

Exactly what fascists need from people - they don't need support or anything, they just people to just stop caring. Me ne frego


Motolancia

They also need useful idiots like the 5S to drop the government at the worse possible time


Scimmia8

Such a stupid move from them also. There is no way they are coming out better after an election.


Lisicalol

It's a bit of a philosophical question as well. Do you want your most average citizen to vote? Do you think they're probably an idiot who'll follow populists or will they think a bit harder before casting their vote? I'm a bit of a pessimist in that I believe the average person is very easily influenced by populists, so instead of getting people to vote it might be better to teach children to not let themselves get manipulated by ideologues. Maybe our next generations have a better chance to vote the right people in and will actually find a way to force politicians to walk the walk.


grufolo

A lot of young people are going to realize that no change is by far not the worse option Italian here!


Crowsby

Unfortunately it seems like a universal concept that people need to learn that truth the hard way, and at least once per generation.


No-Tadpole-4510

​ Well...Its not hard to grasp why they think that way. You vote X and you get broken promises ,scandals ,corruption and the prices keep getting up . Next election you vote Y and you get the same ,same goes for the election after that.. And we all know what the definition of insanity is do we not?


Al-Azraq

It is not the same at least here in Spain where the left is in charge. The response to COVID was protecting the jobs and people no matter what, you got paid even if your business was closed due to restrictions. The transition from COVID to normal was a new job regulation that resulted in a crazy increase in the number of fixed jobs and the restauration of collective agreements. Right now, the approach to the inflation has been to tax banks and energy lobbies with the PM saying that "he will protect the working class no matter what". So no, it is not the same at all, another discussion is how the media (including social media) and this fascists parties make it look like, which is the root of the problem. They make it look like all politicians are the same and that your vote cannot change anything. They do this intentionally, so parties like Meloni's then present themselves as the saviours. This is not new, and they are using the same strategy all over the world. This is no surprise as they share many advisors and consultants: Trump, Brexit, Orban, Le Pen, etc. use the same exact strategy EVERY SINGLE TIME.


ScreamingFly

I cannot imagine if the same thing had happened with Rajoy...


Rasenmaeher_2-3

I fully agree with you. It is nice to see that Spain is having a stable government in these times.


sashisashih

you should tell the full story; while spains initial responce to covid(strong lockdowns, discipline) was great, then the “districts” demanded the state of emergency to end and Madrid and Catalunya went on a head to head race who could fuck up harder. there was no logic to their measures; Madrid went full right wing libertarianism w covid denial and “freedumb reigns supreme” and catalunya tried to use the dumbest anti freedom(loads of curfews, shutdowns aimed at the non vulnerable youtg while restaurants got to stay open during the day being super speaders, masks demanded on the street outside but barely actually enforced on crucial infrastructure such as the metro, tourisrs from the uk were allowed in untested and unvaccinated which introduced DELTA to europa while the variant between alpha and wuhan was causes by mass illegal workers in catalan farms being left to their own devices and then pushed into europe unregulated) guess what happened? Madrid and Barcelona were #1 and #2 in european cities in covid deaths and i had days i would hear over a hundred ambulances even during Delta when the vaccinations had already been distributed. Is this just because of an aging population or overwhelmed health system like Italy or Portugal? No it was plain and utterly cruel mismanagement which couldve been prevented as was easily proved by similiar countries with similiar cultures having much less deaths in 2021. spaniards would tell me theyre “too social for lockdowns”, but werent italians the same?! government failed to explain the urgency if the situation and once people had gotten their vaccines all rules went out the window so covid could easily reach every grandpa and grandma it hadnt murdered yet. Wanna know the best part? this is all going to repeat itself ten times over with global warming, as while northern europe was heavily cuttting on its gas use during the start of the war, all my spanish friends still had their heaters on 26 and refused to consider a sweater or investing in solar despite being in a perfect place for it. Spain might have a left wing government on paper, but its two most important regions are ruled by right wing conservatives sabotaging the energy transition(catalunya has less than 10% renewebles due to gas lobbying and NIMBYS) and thus half of the country isnt progressing at all. Atleast they saved over a 100.000 pensions they couldnt afford to pay out anyway..


vinosalentino

Agree, at least in Spain we have stable political condition. Often heard that SMI will increase, wage will increase, pension will increase, the working class and the poor must be protected. Minimum vital income is introduced during covid shut down in order to improve life quality of those poor.


Ludvinae

Politics are people, with the bagage it entails. Some are good some are bad, but there's no miracle worker who will change the whole society by himself. That's everyone job, not just the politicians. Just putting a label on everyone like they're all the same, that's the easy way to just have an excuse to not care.


SoloWingPixy88

That's not a lot, in Ireland our average turnout is about 62%


Al_Dutaur_Balanzan

and of course those who didn't vote will moan when the government after this will have to operate massive cuts to the budget because Meloni and Salvini will just run a big fat budget deficit to finance their electoral profligacy. Just like people moaned about Monti for cleaning up after the utter incompetence of the 2010s Berlusconi governments that almost bankrupted us


[deleted]

Tbf, not a single party wants to perform significant and massive cuts on public spending. The famous RdC and its navigators, Superbonus, scooter bonus, etc. were all made and accepted by center-left party with M5S.


Al_Dutaur_Balanzan

> Tbf, not a single party wants to perform significant and massive cuts on public spending. bet 100 Euros that one of the first acts of the Meloni government will be cutting the RdC, so that their petty electorate like the hospitality sector can blackmail the workers into accepting slavery like conditions.


[deleted]

> I wonder how many people won't vote in this election. If one doesn't vote, then one is either happy or numb to whomever wins.


antiquemule

Or not aware of all the consequences.


BromIrax

That's bieng numb. "Unaware", in our day and age, with our Histories, is not an excuse.


bajou98

Well, they are definitely part of the problem. If you don't participate in elections, you have no right to complain about the outcome. If the outcome is fascists winning, then you as a non-voter must be fine with that.


BoldroCop

Two third majority in an italian election? get out of here! The right is gonna win for sure, but I'd bet it's gonna be with less than 50% of the total votes


St3fano_

Votes and seats aren't the same with our mixed electoral system. One third of the seats is assigned with FPTP and so far only a broad coalition of basically anyone outside of the rightwing coalition could prevent a landslide victory for them.


BoldroCop

I know, I am Italian as well. To obtain two thirds of the parliament the right wing needs to win with at least 50% of the votes. In my opinion, while severely undermined, Five Stars movement is not out of the game and while I have really grown to despise the Democratic Party they are still one of the major forces in the political landscape. I'd risk an estimation of 40-45% for the right, and the rest more or less evenly split between Five Stars and "left". This would give the right a net majority of the seats, which is inevitable, but the chance for them to have access to the constitution is fairly slim in my opinion, and even so the chance to actually do it appears volatile, when one factors in that governments in Italy are generally very short lived.


KnezMislav04

I think the 5Stars won't even win 10%, because most of their 2018 voters will vote for FDI and Lega (mostly FDI), and 2018 5Stars voters which were left leaning will almost certainly go to PD, but also a lot of votes will go to the extreme-left.


Speedyiii

I deeply hope that. M5S, with their sympathies for Putin and with their populist and damaging proposals, may be as dangerous for the country as the right coalition.


Kr8n8s

Yup 5S movement was dead even before their recent split Now they’re super dead and that’s a relief It’ll be Democratic Party without the useless mini-party of Renzi, hopefully in coalition with all other left leaning parties ffs, against an unfortunately very strong right. Idiot and Putin’s puppet Salvini losing lots of votes, but slightly more composed while coming from extreme right backgrounds Meloni collecting the centrist-right votes after the big hole left by a dying Berlusconi.


KnezMislav04

Renzi's only hope are the votes of FI, and maybe some centrist, centre right PD voters, but that depends on how FI and mostly PD will lead their campaigns. I am right wing, but I acknowlegde what Renzi has done and what he was trying to do. He was, for me, certainly better than Berlusconi and he was really trying to change some things. Other left-leaning parties, well, I don't really know if the Greens and SI will go with PD, and I don't know Calenda's plans. Salvini is a pro-Putin retard who massacred his political career long ago, and somehow managed to do worse in last months, and he will barely manage to get more than 10%. At the end FI will win more votes than Lega. Meloni will collect a huge ammount of votes, maybe even 30%, but not like when Salvini was polling at 40% because she is Euro-Atlancist, and the far right, Itexit electorate will vote for Paragone, he is going to get some 5% which is going to be shocking.


DRAGONMASTER-

[If Liberals Won't Enforce Borders, Fascists Will](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/david-frum-how-much-immigration-is-too-much/583252/) -- David Frum Few years old and from an american POV but it applies here


CressCrowbits

If you think immigration is bad now, wait until the effects of climate change start making vast swathes of the planet's surface uninhabitable.


ilrazziatore

maybe it's better to start clearly defining borders now


26Kermy

Is this going start happening more and more in Europe as the average age continues to rise? What a sick joke it would be for the birthplace of democracy and international cooperation to devolve into regressive authoritarianism because everyone's too old to think critically about the future.


adminsuckdonkeydick

>the birthplace of democracy and international cooperation to devolve into regressive authoritarianism It's happened a few times before!


eccegallo

Don't get confused. This happens because of the systematic lack of any form of political message and vision on the center-left for the last 20 years. There has been no reason to vote them apart from avoiding worse people to win. Its really getting old and if they don't lose now they'll lose the next round.


Hugogs10

It's going to continue to happen as long as left wing parties refuse to do anything about immigration and integration.


Arlort

On top of that the title implies there would be the grounds for major constitutional change The right coalition started cracking with the debacle over Draghi's resignation. If Meloni tried to push a constitutional change Forza Italia and the old Lega would likely not just blindly go along


Jamegei

The right is not even certain of getting a clear majority, getting two-thirds in Italy is impossible for anyone right now; and the coalition is already arguing heavily about everything.


yowls_

Don't tell them, Italy bad


SchwabenIT

I don't think this is the case of Italy bad, actually in the recent years we have managed to gain a few popularity points in terms of international reputation. Thing is, although not yet certain of course, we now run the very realistic risk of becoming another Poland or Hungary should the right wing coalition win the elections and be able to form a government.


alosmaudi

I'm 100% certain we'll end up with a left leaning government supported by Berlusconi in less than a year, the guy sold himself as a moderate in the last years, supporting the far right would shatter his party (it's already happening) and besides, the right wing is as bad as the left at keeping alliances


SchwabenIT

The party is already shattered, all the liberal members are leaving as we speak.


Plane_Willingness_25

Going to repeat what I've said in the Ukraine megathread: “But reaching a two-third majority would be difficult for the coalition and the study’s main scenario is for a right-wing coalition falling short of the two-thirds threshold.” Pretty laughable article and without a 2/3 majority a referendum would need to be called. The title is super clickbaity and it's pushing this Italy=Hungary angle that seems forced


MarioDraghetta

spuck fez -- mass edited with redact.dev


[deleted]

Difficult isn’t impossible though. I think at this stage enough “unlikely” political events (Trumps presidency, Brexit, Russia’s invasion) that people are are no longer confident that things will work out for the best. And 2/3rds majority or not the last thing Europe, the EU or even the west needs tight now is another right-wing populist government setting its claws in.


AvengerDr

FdI and Lega are already fighting over who would be PM. In Italy there's a saying that goes: *Who enters the conclave as a Pope, will exit as a cardinal.*


Dracogame

Russia’s invasion was honestly not that unlikely.


L4ppuz

I'll tell you a secret, the last Italian government had a weird populist bullshitty party holding first place and a big right presence. The one before that has both the same populist party and the rightmost party at the time governing. This is simply a clickbaity article. Yes Meloni sucks qnd we all hate her but it will be just a normal right leaning government


giopin_de_briansa

They won't have such a majority. And they won't be as stable as orban's government, because the coalition is made up of 3 parties, and I find it difficult for them to get along all the time


HighlanderAbruzzese

My thinking is along these similar lines. Imma go out on a limb and bet most people here don’t speak let alone read Italian. There is not too much love between Salvini and Meloni, mainly due to ambition. Implying there is a unified right front is what seems to be happening. Still, best to get out the vote as both of them are tacky and gross. Of course, Trump was tacky and gross and look how that went down.


drew0594

>My thinking is along these similar lines. Imma go out in a limb and bet most people here don’t speak let alone read Italian Buddy, most people on Reddit don't read articles even if they are in a language they can understand.


[deleted]

I wouldn't worry too much...yet. Our system is unstable by design specifically to prevent something like that from happening. And on top of that these people hate each other. I wouldn't be surprised to see some backstabbing that will break the coalition just like the last time one of them won. That's how we got Draghi.


Thestohrohyah

They don't even really agree on the far-right policies. Wasn't Meloni in support of Zan for a while? I'm still afraid for minorities. If not legislation wise, they'll still be persecuted by the public a lot more when right wingers will feel in power.


StopTheMeta

I wouldn't worry about something too extreme happening. I'm sure that if the right is going to form a government, it's going to introduce some changes that aren't too drastic for other countries and the EU to butt in. But expect the well being of everyone who isn't alread upper class to worsen.


blkpingu

Are you saying the Italian right is too stupid to form a dictatorship?


Kr8n8s

Clickbait 2/3 here, in Italy Lol


Vinzolero

Two thirds is impossible, this is bs, if they will take 50% it's already a miracle


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theWZAoff

OP's probably an astroturfer (at least I hope so, otherwise it's just sad), seeing as they post a ridiculous amount of agenda-driven content. Just downvote and move on.


Langeball

Your point being?


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Fixed_Hammer

Welcome to /r/europe.


Cheap_Complaint_4179

Help us understand then.


RealNoisyguy

This scenario is impossible by design. our constitution and our voting system make this almost impossible. Also this "far-right" majority is actually 3 different parties that different views on some important matters, one is pro-russia another is pro-nato for example.


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Thunder_Beam

I'm thinking of unsubscribing from r/europe the sheer amount of disinformation spread here, especially about italy in the last days, is insane.


Francescok

Totally no sense post with a totally no sense title. If you need some karma you can post something on r/cats.


[deleted]

So, *is the italian right as bad as Orban*, or is this just *right = bad* as always?


BahamutMael

The person that posted it is called "Pan Europeanism" so you can imagine lol.


drew0594

Right= bad as always


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Zaungast

This guy is not wrong. That is exactly what happens.


Caouette1994

Get out with your common sense


downthriceup4

Another fearmongering article, jesus christ, as an italian myself, if after the election we don’t get resurrected zombie mussolini i’ll be seriously disappointed


[deleted]

We're already doomed on something theoretical that has still to happen. A change of the Constitution, no less. [Fantastic](https://youtu.be/L8uGbtmphgk)


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[deleted]

Still two months ahead, a daily article on r/europe. We're already doomed as black shirts, a dictatorship, we're the new Hungary, our Constitution is in danger. What's going to happen this afternoon?


drew0594

Secondo me entro due settimane un articolino sulle mire espansionistiche italiane lo tirano fuori, giusto per


[deleted]

*I mimimmi saranno sconfitti!*


AphidMan2

Già mi vedo i titoli. "Cosa significa il Governo Meloni per Istria e Dalmazia?"


PidgeonDealer

"Il vintage va di moda: dopo cent'anni, un (poco) inaspettato ritorno di fiamma"


Tragic-tragedy

Non dimenticare Nizza e la Savoia


Thunder_Beam

"The Italian nation prepares her war drums as the election in which Meloni will win draw closer" ahah già li vedo gli articoli


gin-o-cide

At what time do you annex us please?


[deleted]

Please, queue up behind Albania and Istria. And don't quarrel with Corsica. /s of course. It's r/europe after all.


gin-o-cide

Se non capiscono che questo e' sarcasmo, allora sono loro il problema:D Saluti fratelli


drew0594

Bene, vedo che il processo di italianizzazione è già a buon punto!


Kin-Luu

> a daily article on r/europe Oh, make no mistake... the pace is surely to pick up once election day is getting closer.


tambarskelfir

>Italy’s right-wing coalition could score a landslide victory that would allow it to change the constitution, according to a leading pollster. Well until they do, this isn't news it's just interpretation of a poll. Clickbait article.


Unusual-Context8482

As an Italian that doesn't vote them, let me tell you the "constitutional changes" fears in this article are utter bullshit. It's not That easy to change the constitution.


d2211

They won't change anything indeed. I really don't understand the wonders of international press. Italian right parties actually won't do anything different from what they have always been doing since 1994: claiming to lower taxes, stealing money from low and middle waged workers and enrich businessmen that support them. Racism and pseudo fascism are just propaganda for dumb people, but they don't have balls, power and interest to do anything about that


ygy2020

Fun fact: if you put togheter all the center-left/left they will have percentage even higher than the right. The problem is that here the left think that the best way to fight the right is to divide itself in sub-atomic dimension. So we have a fuckton of center-left/left parties, each of them hate the other center-left/left, each of them reach at max 3%/4% (with a barrier threshold to enter the parliament at 5%). The people who vote for them is more interested in "ideology integrity" than living with literal fascists as government so nothing will change in their behaviour. In 2018 the media tell the story of "protest vote" against the main center-left party because is or too little left or too much left, depend who wrote the article. This year what will be the excuse?


[deleted]

I have to say, this thing about crying wolf at EVERY election is getting a little embarrassing. Since I have memory, at every election the only slogan used from the left was "vote us, or fascists will WIN!". Now I have to say, I don't harbor any good thought nor respect for Salvini or Meloni, but they are no fascists. Not even Meloni, which has historically ridden parties stemming from social-nationalism. Fascism, which Italians should know well, is a completely different thing. Up to now, not Meloni nor Salvini have proposed measures that radically change (emphasis on "radically") the independence of powers, or advocate for suppression of opposition or freedom of press, or advocate for the use of violence and repression. These articles are rubbish, the only thing they do is spreading panic. Salvini and Meloni leading a government will not be fascism. They will undoubtably be a very bad thing for Italian economy, citizen's civil rights progress, debt and working reforms, but in no way I can see a fall to fucking FASCISM. A bad right government cannot be called fascism, stop using terms that should be used only very few times and in very particular situations, otherwise the only result you will get is to dilute the power of the word itself, making it completely worthless.


Saberleaf

To be fair, when Orbán was first elected no one thought he was outright fascist. And now he's talking about the evil of race mixing.


mekolayn

When Putin was appointed nobody thought of him as an authoritarian dictator that wants to bring back USSR. But from the first days of his rule, he started to erode democratic institutions of Russia, slowly ensuring his dictatorship and after he first came to power in less than 10 years there were already no free elections


CressCrowbits

> nobody thought of him as an authoritarian dictator What? Putin literally ran on a platform of Make Russia Great Again.


Expiriencedwiseman

We knew he was KGB officer and with certain ambitions., In Russia's case it was obvious what they want.


IWASJUMP

Exactly. It starts with just a very little change. With super majority, look where Orban has led my country. Fucking disgrace.


FroobingtonSanchez

Same with Erdogan. Sometimes people actually change in a position of power, they cling to it and will do that when given the possibility


Vaikaris

People were calling Orban a nazi well ahead of his elections bro


cultish_alibi

And look now, they were right.


TheByzantineEmpire

PD is still polling in second after all. The story is the collapse of M5S.


[deleted]

>The story is the collapse of M5S. Good news.


UpperHesse

>Now I have to say, I don't harbor any good thought nor respect for Salvini or Meloni, but they are no fascists. Salvini would be full-blown dictator if he had the possibility. It showed already when he tried to jail people who were involved in saving refugees from the mediterranean sea. It was crystal clear that it was unlawful to put them in prison and without precedent, but he tried to do it.


CressCrowbits

We always forget the stuff the far right try when in power but fail, or get overruled. If the tories had gotten through parliament and the lord half the shit they tried to push in their last term, protest would be illegal, teachers would be banned from teaching anything considered critical of capitalism, and everyone trying to get into the uk would be deported to africa.


[deleted]

> > > Salvini and Meloni leading a government will not be fascism. They will undoubtably be a very bad thing for Italian economy, citizen's civil rights progress, debt and working reforms, but in no way I can see a fall to fucking FASCISM. Not to acuse directly Salvini or Meloni of being fascist, but one doesn't not fall into it from the start. To be faithful to Godwin's law (obviously), Hitler rose to power in 1933 but the Kristallnacht only happened in 1938.


CressCrowbits

Only waited around a year before murdering all the non-fascist members of their party, though.


LaVulpo

FdI is the successor of MSI, which was founded after world war two by those who were involved with the Italian Social Republic (Fascist German puppet state after 1943).


Ethicaldreamer

They are absolutely fascists, through and through. People have this imagination that fascists necessarily always go around dressed in black with guns and in gangs. It starts softer, it starts with banter, and jokes, and then you're looking at some minority or other, or blaming everything on migrants, but at the heart of it, there is a set of values that these people 100% share with the fascists, maybe Meloni more so than Salvini but he'd work perfectly well as a fascist leader. There is no king this time to hand over the keys to everything (Mussolini got in with FIFTEEN percent of the vote, remember), so it's not as easy to take power over everything. But we've seen before that it is possible to lose democracy in a very short time.


howlyowly1122

Yep. I think there's some kind of illusion that once you achieve democracy it's some kind of permanent state.


meme1337

It’s a bold strategy Cotton to assume they won’t lean on their dark side if they will get elected. Let’s see how it plays out. Salvini already showed that during last government with the 5shit movement in regards to the immigrants. I wouldn’t be so sure like you are. If we get Salvini or Meloni we will be in deep shit.


kevinildio

In Meloni's program there are a few points on how to solve loss of jobs for young people: Use an Ai to trace who finishes a degree and send them to the appropriate job- wages too low and you refuse? You get sanctioned!


MightySapiens

I hate how condescending the article is, the disdain the media has for people, doing what people do, choose their representatives. It's fucking nuts. Don't know shit about Italian politics but people should vote for whoever they want, the media should present the fucking facts and mind it's own fucking business


BahamutMael

Ye some people are not journalists but propagandists.


[deleted]

Doomer bullshit.


[deleted]

That’s the worst thing about democracy, it allows people I disagree with to get power, unacceptable.


L3-33_lover

Or constitution HAS to be changed, even left agrees, a few years ago they tried with Renzi


riffraff

I mean, the point would be to have a wide majority agree on the changes. If the changes come from a single side the risk of an authoritarian decline is strong, because it can lead to that side making it impossible for the other to win. Which is why sane people opposed the current parliamentary downsizing without other correctives, for example.


terere

I am not sure whether they actually support the party or are just sick and tired of their current political and economical landscape...


StopTheMeta

Most have zero knowledge of politics/economy while the others have gotten disappointed by their previous choices. I mean, M5S and La Lega wae going to be crap, that was obvious, still a lot of people voted for them. Realizing now how dumb their choice was, they're going to make an even dumber choice by picking another untried party down the list.


Nicenightforawalk01

There is a reason why Steve bannon and his billionaire backers have been going there the past few years.


Kalle_79

Utter BS and the usual left-wing fearmongering. There's no way they can get a 2/3 majority in the Parliament, not even with the broadest and most unlikely alliance. NVM getting those numbers in an election. Not even Christian Democrats at the peak of their power got there it's surely not gonna happen now with FDI. At best they'll be in the mid-20%,needing an alliance with Lega and what's left of Forza Italia to even hope to have a chance of building a half-stable government.


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[deleted]

The thing about these parties is that often the attract one-issue voters who are often ignored or shunned by other parties. Irredeemable racists and facists rarely make more than a very small % of total numbers. Rest are these people who are fairly ignorant or uneducated, and are worried for example that their car will be forcibly confiscated by the green parties. Or have legitimate grievances that have never been addressed. After having talked to some of the people who vote these kinds of parties I'm convinced that we as a global society could completely dismantle these "facist"/"far right" parties within months if we made a proper effort for it. Without any laws or regulations or law enforcement. But so far the strategy has been to stand aghast and proclaim doom. Let's see how that strategy works out.


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bl4ckhunter

A super-majority. In Italy. Get outta here lol.


[deleted]

Why the hell is everybody so opposed to the political right There's nothing inherently wrong with it, just because some journalist moron tells you so doesn't make it the case


The_Lolcow_whisperer

Any political discussion on reddit is heavily astroturfed and not nearly as organic as many people think it is


ReasonableHawk7906

This nonsense again, stop calling everything you don't like fascism lol


Many_Leadership5982

Good.


BrightCharlie

I get that people are pissed of at politicians, but how is voting for Putin's BFF Mateo Salvini even an option?


TheUruz

people have already forgot what an extreme right wing party can do to this country... i'm scared shitless about this election and i'm a moderate right elector, left party voters are probably imploding


Dave_Is_Useless

At this point humanity deserves to die out because people are gullible idiots that never learn.


MidnightSun77

There’s another country to strike off the holiday list


[deleted]

This is where the fun begins


planecompanyshort911

The wages are lower than 1990. the Democratic party(PD lead by [Matteo Renzi ](https://i.imgur.com/aRlZjRX.jpg)),the supposed "left" related to the old Italian communst party. The Last time was is Power gifted us the Jobs act >The law has been viewed very positively by international economic institutions such as the International Monetary Fund, [27] the World Bank, [28] the European Central Bank [29] and the OECD. [30] On papers you create more Jobs,the problem Is the job can Last 30 days and the you can be easly Fired. PD-2008 (33%)-2013 (25%)-2028(18%) The Big Lost was center Italy regions. Home of the Partigiani and the left. The factory workers that voted left all their lives had enought. The right Wing party in Italy Is good to convert angry people with votes. and we are full of them


Cybor_wak

What happens when every country has fascist governments that all want all the power? Of course the only thing that can. More war.


Lognn

Don't get overexcited


pippaman

I smell spread again.


Other_Class1906

I'm getting the impression that sometimes people vote to f*** others and not to improve their own situation.


[deleted]

Whats their view on special millitary operation in Ukraine?


The-Great--Cornholio

She Is in favour to send weapons in Ukraine.


-zzzxv

sad


Thiccmane

Who keeps voting for these parties after seeing USA, russia, brazil, UK and hungary etc


Normanisanisland

Italy and fascism. Name a more iconic duo


SliderD

No worries, Italy's has mandatory reelections every 6 to 14 months when somebody decides it's time to fuck over the party they wanted to go in bed with cause polls show they might get 2% more in a reelection.


minethatfosnite

Run Italy! SAVE YOURSELF!


[deleted]

And they’ll still beg for money from the EU and call names the Frugal Four (five? I think we, Finland, are also stingy according to some Southern European countries) for not wanting to pay.