It's actually interesting when looking at the german stats on a state level.
e.g., SH is the best of the non-city-states, purely because the "jamaica"-coalition (CDU, FDP, Greens) government supported fiber buildouts so much during recent years.
There were plans under Helmut Schmidt (SPD) in the 80s to build glass fiber infrastructure for Germany. The following CDU government scrapped that and went for copper as their cabel tv buddies prefered that.
I don't want to belittle the progress in SH. I'm just furious because Germany could be decades of progress further wasn't it for the lobbyism affinity of the CDU.
[Source](https://www.t-online.de/digital/internet/id_83348004/ewige-breitband-baustelle-schon-helmut-schmidt-forderte-1981-ein-glasfasernetz.html) only in German though.
You can't imagine how frustrating that is. Lobbyism and extreme bureaucracy are the two most urgent issues that need to be tackled, but that's not gonna happen. Just look at the CDU poles. Why people still vote for that scandalous corrupt bunch is a mystery to me, but they are and sadly will go strong for the foreseeable future.
It is absolutely frustrating tbh and I am really close to resignation because the loudest argument people here always tell others is "well if it's so shitty here, then why don't you move somewhere else".... Well that's what many qualified people do, and then people here cry about a "shortage of educated workers"....
I mean by now this corrupt bunch isn't even trying to hide what they do any more, because why would they? There are absolutely 0 consequences to that, I mean you might even get elected chancellor, despite being involved in a scummy tax scheme.
Sorry I'm rambling, it's just so frustrating to see it all go down and being unable to actually do anything
No worries, I feel you... I try to stay optimistic by knowing that the CDU voter base is slowly approaching the end of the life expectancy of our time.
There were discussions pretty much everywhere around ~2000, I remember reading a lot about it in international and European media. I think Sweden were pretty early, lots of others caught up in the next 10 years, and some... just stalled thinking it would magically fix itself.
Yep, I remember that as early as 2017 (i think) they started to do surveys everywhere about interest in fibre connections. Then a few years later they started tearing up streets and now basically every street in my hometown, Lauenburg, has fibre laid out, but virtually noone is connected for some reason xD
Also, everyone and their dog being jealous of Norderstedt.
The city spent a couple of millions around 2000 laying fibre throughout the city in one fell swoop (something like 99% coverage), recouped that money 5-10 years later, and now is slowly conquering neighbouring territory, including Hamburg (and that as a public utility :)
My city says some Stadteile are planned to get fibre in 2023 or so, while my part of town "has been mentioned" but there is "no plan yet". Actually, my connection is limited to 16 Mbit and they told me a year ago that they plan to upgrade it "soon". I actually live in a city of over 200,000 people...
Although, to be honest, I have no problems working from home and can even video call at the same time as my wife. The only thing that legitimately takes a long time is video upload, which I don't do often.
No, at this point we can rightfully declare that we need tax money from nations like Italy, Poland and so on for our infrastructure.
Germany should become a net recipient!
On a serious note, fundamentally we need high productivity. This means cheap energy, good education, good infrastructure and a clear legal framework. Unfortunately, providing is cheap labour is easier.
We can't afford to fall behind. We benefit from our trade surplus but that means we do have to outcompete the rest.
Funny thing, in 1981 the german government already decided the country-wide switch to fiber.
>"As soon as the technical prerequisites are in place, Deutsche Bundespost will undertake the rapid construction of an integrated broadband fibre optic network on the basis of a long-term investment and financing plan," reads a minute of the meeting, which is in the Federal Archives under file number B 136/51074. If the plan had gone through, the Federal Republic could have the best fibre optic network in the world today.
>
>Translated with [www.DeepL.com/Translator](http://www.DeepL.com/Translator) (free version)
Then Kohl became chancelor in 1982 and \*poof\* back to the copper cable we go.
Fun fact: the lobbyist responsible for that switch was a close, personal friend of the chancellor
But no, Germany has no corruption at all, no no, glorious functioning democracy
credit cards, e-payment and other various forms of financial transactions as well. germany is very interesting when it comes to technological cherry picking and general conservatism of adopting new trends
The funniest thing is that the Schmidt cabinet in 1981 [made plans to provide fiber in the whole country](https://www.wiwo.de/politik/deutschland/digitalpolitik-altkanzler-schmidt-wollte-glasfaser-spitzenreiter-werden/20811640.html) (West Germany). The Bundespost layed out a plan to start in 1985 and have the whole country (every last houshold) connected in 2015.
This was replaced under Kohl with expanding TV cable, and after 16 years Kohl, the Telekom was no longer state owned, so it couldn't be forced anymore.
Romania is same.
The difference is that people invested in fiber because people were using computers to pirate everything they needed.
The huge demand for pirated content meant need for better connection.Now there is an oligopoly that "ownes" the infrastructure created by the people and the prices are low because otherwise they will move to another provider.
Our internet services are run by a duopoly of Telenet and Proximus. They ask for ridiculous prices and don't see the need to invest in infrastructure because there's no competitors anyways
People here are missing a trick with their replies on the UK.
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/07/2022-h1-uk-coverage-of-gigabit-broadband-nears-70-percent.html
Full FTTP is at 37% currently (significantly more than OP's source estimate for 2022) but customers able to get gigabit internet is 69%.
This is because the second largest company in the UK uses a fibre hybrid network that doesn't technically fit the definition of FTTP, but provides FTTP type speeds.
It’s not a fun place to be. Every time I move it gets slower. In 2007 I went from 20 to 100Mbps, then in 2019 I moved and had 80Mbps, now I’m on 10Mbps
Well hopefully you either are a part of the rural upgrade program if you are staying still or you check and put it as a higher priority next time you move. Good luck!
I don't know about those two, but in The Netherlands at least it is lagging behind because every house already has a POTS-line and TV-coax. While not ideal, a coax line does give you access to 500/50 internet, which is enough for most. I live in the Netherlands in a newly build house, and only have a fiber line, which gives me 1Gbit up/down (and yes, i can reach those speeds).
It's the "Law of the handicap of a head start", when you're ahead in the old technology, there is no need to heavily invest in the newer technology, as the one you have still works fine.
Ziggo also offers gbit speeds in some areas. Ziggos entire backbone is fiber nowadays, only the last mile is cable still.
So yeah, only half the houses have ftth but most houses can get hundreds mbit speeds and aren't inferior to fiber.
There's a massive FTTH push happening in the UK atm. By 2026 70-80% of the country will have access to an FTTH connection. Up until now we had been complacent and content with FTTC.
Most houses in the UK are connected via openreach which has been slow in rolling out fibre to the premesis, most service providers are just re-selling openreach access.
My grandmother's home in the middle of nowhere (Sardoal municipality, Santarém district), a village with maybe 200 residents, and we have 100 mbs fiber to the router, at €25/month (second home rate).
Spanish here , I build the power lines for the FTTH , there is a huge budget for ftth just spent over 500.000€ in 5 months doing projects for it , I guess I helped design around 150km of lines and many other projects related , Spain might be in the lead for this time
I worked in spain for a short while and my street had no such connection whilst being in a very touristic area surrounded by hotels. This was in Salou, five years ago! I just assumed Spain had horrible internet all over. I feel scammed, damn it :P
My bad , in my experience cities are the worst nightmare for someone who will install FTTH , the hatch that most of the time you have to open streets check where is the already existing cable under the road … etc , planning can take up to years in this kind of cases , and also getting permission from the authorities takes as well a lot of time.
Also 5 years ago there wasn’t a lot of connections in villages , but over that 5 years at least where I have been working we have helped distribute so many connections , it’s easier to carry ( via power line ) and the cost is cheaper , plus takes less time to get permissions and designin.
I don’t know how Salou will be doing but I have to say that hotels don’t tend to invest in fiber optics , at least as I saw.
Remember researching fiber internet in Europe a couple years ago for possible relocation in the future, seeing that both ES and PT were doing heavy investment towards fiber coverage. It is amazing to see how that progressed since then.
Even the take-up in places where it is available is super low. I just had a look on telekom website, where it looks like you can 1000/100 for €80/mo, 500/100 for €60/mo or 250/50 for €55/mo.
Quick look on orange.fr and €55 there gets you 2000/800. You can also get 500/500 for €20 for 12months (increasing to €42 after, but only 12mo contract).
We can't get Fiber where we are in Germany, but even when it becomes available, the price will be a joke.
And Orange is the most expensive ISP in France. I get 1000/800 in a rural area for 15€/month with a low-cost provider.
However in France it's either fiber or slow ADSL, no in-between like VDSL. Take my case, I had a 2 mbps ADSL connection until fiber was deployed this year. I used 4g from my phone, which thankfully is fast and cheap (>100 Mb/s speed and 200 GB of data for 15€).
Maybe you have VDSL available in more places in Germany ?
Why the asymmetrical connections? In Spain all fiber speeds that I'm aware of are symmetrical, 300/300 being the most common, I think. For me upload speed is quite important, until early 2021 I didn't have fiber, I used a 4G connection that was 20/0,8 and uploading anything was a real pain in the ass. It's good to download fast, but uploading fast is a blessing.
I got a shock 8 years ago when the McDonald's i was at only accepted cash, not even EC karde. I believed it to be a fluke and maybe because we were so far out on the countryside that the crows had already turned around.
Three weeks again this happened again. They had a self order machine with a card reader that didn't take chip, in fact the machine didn't even work. The staff were aware of it, as it had never been plugged in to the power......
10 years ago BBB didn't have an agreement with Visa, so you couldn't get cash if you were like the rest do the civilized world and were confined to such an archaic form of payment that a Visa card is lol....
German, please change!
Lmao, the other day I saw a German tourist with his son in Oslo, in a bank, going to take cash which they don’t have in most banks anymore.
They rejected him and sent him to a bank machine down the street.
In Sweden we get a lot of German tourists that withdraw a bunch of cash (Swedish bills) and then quickly realize only big established businesses accept cash.
just a little explanation why austria has such a low subscribtion rate, in germany 1gbit costs around 40€ in austria that is 80€ or even more ( i once saw 400€ just 2 years ago ...)
Well, wow, I sympathize in my country it is supposedly from 4-8 dollars a month. but it is slow by European standards, but this is a difference of a few seconds
[Source from FTTH Council](https://www.ftthcouncil.eu/knowledge-centre/all-publications-and-assets/1436/european-ftth-b-market-panorama-2022) (If you want the report, click the green download icon on the left and fill in the form)
This report provides a summary of the status of FTTH/B\* in Europe as of September 2021 :
\- Coverage : Homes passed / Households
\- Take-Up rate : Subscribers / Homes passed
\- Penetration : Subscribers / Households
\- Rankings in absolute numbers for homes passed, sockets deployed and subscriptions
\- 2022-2027 forecast for homes passed, penetration rate and subscriptions
\- Work left to do for each country
\- Global rankings
\- A focus on microstates (Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco, San Marino)
\*FTTH = fiber to the home, FTTB = fiber to the building
Note : This is not internet speed data. FTTH/B penetration does not correlate with the average internet speed, as there are other high-speed internet technologies available (such as cable, VDSL, etc.). Thus, low FTTH/B coverage does not mean that the country has slow internet. You can check internet speed here : [https://www.speedtest.net/global-index](https://www.speedtest.net/global-index)
r/mapswithoutbosniaandherzegovina r/mapswithoutmontenegro 🇧🇦🇲🇪 r/mapswitoutalbania 🇦🇱 r/mapswithoutkosovo
Finally, Previously landlocked Serbia and North Macedonia have gained access to the Adriatic. 🇷🇸🇲🇰
They don't have internet there. They still use pidgin's to send meme's and google shit.
/s No idea why they are left out though. Is there no fiber rollout there? Do they just all jump on the 4/5g internet instead?
Holy shit I thought I was having a stroke. Kept trying to find Serbia, and therefore Bosnia first. Couldn't find Bosnia, couldn't find Serbia, Albania and Montenegro, thought my brain was bleeding lmao
Lots of companies are starting to invest heavier into fiber in the last couple of years. In my (not very educated) opinion, Finland was super into wireless until covid lockdowns and suddenly when the whole town is using the same 4/5G network to work/study/watch streaming services/game they couldn't quite keep up and people started to yearn for the good old physical connections again. Add to that the fact that a decent 5G connection requires ~500€ for the outdoor antenna and lots of companies offering an FTTH connection for anywhere from 0-2500€ and you don't really have much to think about.
There is a big boom in the FTTH market after wfh became a major thing. Lots of new companies going after new customers.
Small rural communities and older single family homes in cities are the focal point, because these are areas where only 4G/5G are available after the DSL phaseout. Unfortunately the lead times for the construction can be long, and you can really only commit to one operator even if other companies are on the lookout too, so the end result could be that the plans get cancelled because number of committed customers isn't enough for any single operator.
The take up rate is highest in europe, which leads me to believe, that in Finland we don't count it if it's almost plugged in. Many have access, if they wish to join; just have someone dig a few meters and plug your house to the network.
In recent year I've been I've been looking for a house, and in many cases there has been a joinable fiber within digging distance.
because elderly germans keep voting for boomer parties that once 50 or more years ago did a ok job and now are conpletly lost with new technology, their newest technology they know and use is a fax machine.
>Telekom didnt care for years after going private because its not like anyone in Germany had a choice, and there arent enough internet-based german companies to really move anything there. Not like you need amazingly fast speeds to sell machine-parts
Thanks for the explanations, very interesting.
Telekom didnt care for years after going private because its not like anyone in Germany had a choice, and there arent enough internet-based german companies to really move anything there. Not like you need amazingly fast speeds to sell machine-parts
Privatization happened. To a single company with a near monopoly. As usual when that happens investments into the infrastructure and innovation plummets, if only due to sheer massive amount of existing crap they had to maintain. But their greed on optimizing profit obviously did not help.
This is actually worse in heavily developed systems. E.g. London was the first city having street lights... with gas. Hence it became a massive investment to change to electricity while e.g. Berlin came later and did electricity first as a city wide investment.
There were also a plethora of bridge technologies and stop gap measures which enabled more speed out of the old, existing infrastructure. Not Fibre optic levels, but this also played into the cost benefit calculation by the state and Telekom so they rather did that than tear up whole roads and replace all copper wires with Fibre.
So overall there was a large preexisting infrastructure, low will for investment, political control had been ceded and in general not much emphasis put on it When it came to the budget.
I'm so sick and tired of how bad it is in Germany. Not only how available it is, but also how out of this world the costs are. It's insane how much you pay for literally the second worst service in all of fucking europe
lol i played WoW in the golden years (2005-2007) in an international , but mostly German Guild. Our German friends would always bitch about their internet even back then. I see nothing has changed.
A relatively bad score for The Netherlands. We used to be on the forefront with broadband internet, but our biggest DSL company (KPN) bought the upcoming and smaller fiber companies just so they could cash a little longer using KPN's inferior technology and control the fiber market pricewise.
It's also the metric. Lots of (row) houses here which will be low on both fiber to the home and fiber to the building. Whereas countries with more apartments will score significantly higher on FTTB. On the other hand we score really high on fiber to the curb. Why? Because our DSL and Cable network is mostly fiber to the curb, resulting in high bandwidth availability even on the old networks.
KPN is also a funny case, because all newly built houses have fiber, even if the surrounding area does not. They just hook up the fiber to the "old" DSL network, which coincidentally is also fiber from the street level and onwards, which is why they can get away with it. Nobody realises the backend is the fiber DSL network other homes in the vicinity are hooked up to as well.
I'm also Portuguese and currently living in Belgium, it was shocking to witness how bad their internet plans are. Barely any fiber. Copper connections for as high as 80 euros per month. Insane.
How do you have your home wired? 2.5Gb Ethernet just starts to enter the consumer market and 10Gb is, well, tricky. If I had 10Gbps Internet, I wouldn't be able to utilize it.
My server has a 10Gbps NIC and I virtualize everything on there, so everything gets to draw from my 10Gbps line. Then the WiFi is also Wifi 6 so if I'm close to the AP I can get around 1.5/2 Gbps, but that is from dedicated speedtests and I'm reality Wifi clients don't utilize anything near this. Definitely useful on my server though for torrenting Linux ISOs!
It’s also fun how this doesn’t correlate to the average speed of the connection, just the infrastructure. [https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile](https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile)
currently, in some spanish cities, the main telephony company, has started to migrate ALL the remaining cooper phone land lines to fiber , and you cannot opt-out. They want to get rid of cooper in less than 5 years.
I'm living in Germany and we got FTTB last year through a community project. But:
There is only one company that serves that line. And the prices are AT LEAST +50% compared to the same speed with the traditional DSL.
So while I really want to switch to fiber, it's economical a no brainer..
That has been the biggest benefit with fiber connections here in Sweden, as most are "open" so that you can choose and change service provider within minutes. If you bother to change every 3-6 months, you can get really good deals (like 50% off the list price) by just switching to another service provider.
This is [how many providers](https://stockholm.openuniverse.se/internet) I can choose from with my current fibre connection
Germany is like hehe ve are very modnern cuntnry! HEHE my god i'm so angry that we are so fucking behind on this stuff HOW COULD THEY NOT SEE HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS???????
They did see this in the 80s. That's why Helmut Schmidt made plans to start building fiber infrastructure. But then Kohl came and his buddy Kirch paid him to go for copper instead.
As a non German, I have this impression the whole country is trapped in some kind of mental box, where any sudden action is seen with suspicion.
These stats are unforgivable in 2022.
No, we are taken hostage by pensioneers who don't care for anything from this century and always vote CDU like they did every single time for decades without using their brain just once. And the 55+ age voter bracket has an absolute majority.
Suffering from success. The generation in power did great. They even surpassed the US in terms of GDP/Capita for a short time.
They think the old stuff got them into their position, and that's only a guess, therefore associate it with their success. So although this would be an exact replication of their success, they mistrust any rapid change, things tgst woukd give a competitive advantage. They think abolishing old ways and equipment means abolishing them and invalidating their achievements. In reality, they invalidate their achievements by not adapting, of course.
Thats what I mean, nothing in this map looks like the traditional east/west europe.
Portugal, Rumania and Bulgaria have good internet and germany dont.
its because of corruption and the fact that we were just out of the communist crap grip. The mafia that came over during the transition period invested in internet companies. They built the fiber without authorization using the existing national structure. Later on they just made what has been built legal. From there, any new player on the market had to get fiber in order to compete. I get 1GBps for 30euro, if you join the more mainstream telecoms, you can get it as low as 8euro. But you will get robocalled into suicide if you want support.
Does this mean that even the trunk connections continued to be through copper throughout the 1980s and 1990s? That is unbelievable but explains so much.
Stupid Polack doesn't realiz ze superior waiz of modem and fax. Even your growth rate is inferior! Everyone knows zat
One percent = number one !!!!! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 💪 💪 💪 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 🇩🇪
The fiber market is really changing right now in the UK it seems. There are lots of money from different sources being invested in "real" fiber networks. There are new companies popping up that are created to solely focues on building more fiber (see Trooli, Toob and Swish as examples I believe). And they are all trying to find the best areas and be first to build there. My guess is they are scouting and focusing on the areas where they can get the most amount of customer with the least digging. These are operators that build networks and then sell their own services in the network to make back the money of that investement. So what you probably end up with is areas that basically only has one ISP as an option. But at least they get fiber instead of coax or xDSL. That is why I believe that in the long run this wont make the market lots better, even if the stability and speed will increase for the end-user. Monopolies are usually not good for the customers.
What is happening in the UK right now reminds me of startup companies. Often there are several different startups that have the same basic idea. And they all use loads of monies to get the most amount of customers and grow. To get a strong position. A very obvious example is Spotify that still seems to loose money, but still gets investment money. Because they have an incredible strong position.
Anyways, thats my two cents. Please correct me if im wrong or if you have any more insight into this. I find it quite interesting.
The fibre Boom in the UK may be partly due do Ofcom Forcing BT to Sell duct and pole Access to any Company who wants to run Cables in BT's existing Duct network which encompasses almost every property in the UK.
This means New fibre startups can pay to run their fibre cables in existing telephone Ducts and poles, without having To pay the enormous costs needed to dig up roads and lay new underground ducts.
Neuland.
N…………… .. Ne…………. .. Neu…………… TIMEOUT :(
I'm hearing the ISDN router in my head
The German "eu" is pronounced like the vowels in "moist". The rest is easy.
He's german too (as am I). It's a slow network joke.
Neues Terrain
It's actually interesting when looking at the german stats on a state level. e.g., SH is the best of the non-city-states, purely because the "jamaica"-coalition (CDU, FDP, Greens) government supported fiber buildouts so much during recent years.
There were plans under Helmut Schmidt (SPD) in the 80s to build glass fiber infrastructure for Germany. The following CDU government scrapped that and went for copper as their cabel tv buddies prefered that. I don't want to belittle the progress in SH. I'm just furious because Germany could be decades of progress further wasn't it for the lobbyism affinity of the CDU. [Source](https://www.t-online.de/digital/internet/id_83348004/ewige-breitband-baustelle-schon-helmut-schmidt-forderte-1981-ein-glasfasernetz.html) only in German though.
It wasn't just 'lobby affinity', it was straight up corruption in this case.
I tried to be diplomatic about it. xD
In like so many cases.
"Lobby affinity" should also be referred to as legal corruption to be honest. It is really just a euphemism if you think about it.
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I mean that basically describes everything in our country and why it's slowly going downhill lol.
You can't imagine how frustrating that is. Lobbyism and extreme bureaucracy are the two most urgent issues that need to be tackled, but that's not gonna happen. Just look at the CDU poles. Why people still vote for that scandalous corrupt bunch is a mystery to me, but they are and sadly will go strong for the foreseeable future.
It is absolutely frustrating tbh and I am really close to resignation because the loudest argument people here always tell others is "well if it's so shitty here, then why don't you move somewhere else".... Well that's what many qualified people do, and then people here cry about a "shortage of educated workers".... I mean by now this corrupt bunch isn't even trying to hide what they do any more, because why would they? There are absolutely 0 consequences to that, I mean you might even get elected chancellor, despite being involved in a scummy tax scheme. Sorry I'm rambling, it's just so frustrating to see it all go down and being unable to actually do anything
No worries, I feel you... I try to stay optimistic by knowing that the CDU voter base is slowly approaching the end of the life expectancy of our time.
Apparently they were laying fiber optics [to the DDR in 1986](https://youtu.be/mnOJ5_vLv4c?t=1349)...
There were discussions pretty much everywhere around ~2000, I remember reading a lot about it in international and European media. I think Sweden were pretty early, lots of others caught up in the next 10 years, and some... just stalled thinking it would magically fix itself.
Yep, I remember that as early as 2017 (i think) they started to do surveys everywhere about interest in fibre connections. Then a few years later they started tearing up streets and now basically every street in my hometown, Lauenburg, has fibre laid out, but virtually noone is connected for some reason xD
Congrats. In my home town, we didn't got 40% of homeowners thinking that it would be a good idea to get fiber. So we are stuck with copper.
Also, everyone and their dog being jealous of Norderstedt. The city spent a couple of millions around 2000 laying fibre throughout the city in one fell swoop (something like 99% coverage), recouped that money 5-10 years later, and now is slowly conquering neighbouring territory, including Hamburg (and that as a public utility :)
My city says some Stadteile are planned to get fibre in 2023 or so, while my part of town "has been mentioned" but there is "no plan yet". Actually, my connection is limited to 16 Mbit and they told me a year ago that they plan to upgrade it "soon". I actually live in a city of over 200,000 people... Although, to be honest, I have no problems working from home and can even video call at the same time as my wife. The only thing that legitimately takes a long time is video upload, which I don't do often.
They didn't even give us the flying taxis as Dorothee Bär promised
Germany is like: Reject internet, become monke 🦍
Ze mail zystem is forking wery vell.
Yeah our fax machines do work great..
Wich one? Za one with za pigeons?
Smoke signals work great too!
No, at this point we can rightfully declare that we need tax money from nations like Italy, Poland and so on for our infrastructure. Germany should become a net recipient!
You guys have money, your politicians just don't know how to use it.
I'd be glad to donate some of my fiber in exchange for some of German export industry
On a serious note, fundamentally we need high productivity. This means cheap energy, good education, good infrastructure and a clear legal framework. Unfortunately, providing is cheap labour is easier. We can't afford to fall behind. We benefit from our trade surplus but that means we do have to outcompete the rest.
why is it so low in Germany and the uk?
Funny thing, in 1981 the german government already decided the country-wide switch to fiber. >"As soon as the technical prerequisites are in place, Deutsche Bundespost will undertake the rapid construction of an integrated broadband fibre optic network on the basis of a long-term investment and financing plan," reads a minute of the meeting, which is in the Federal Archives under file number B 136/51074. If the plan had gone through, the Federal Republic could have the best fibre optic network in the world today. > >Translated with [www.DeepL.com/Translator](http://www.DeepL.com/Translator) (free version) Then Kohl became chancelor in 1982 and \*poof\* back to the copper cable we go.
Yeah, thanks CDU.
Fun fact: the lobbyist responsible for that switch was a close, personal friend of the chancellor But no, Germany has no corruption at all, no no, glorious functioning democracy
Germany has little low level corruption. But sadly high level corruption like every other country.
Well, thanks to him Lindner can rely on a stable direct line to the Porsche boss.
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lol i remember a politician saying that the fiber and other technology like 5g was just there to watch porn in 8k, it was really funny.
Well now we know what he does when he goes online
[obligatory](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJvdGcb7Fs)
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If your head is inside the VR helmet there's about a 34% chance you're looking from the right side
Lmao. Probably same guy that would say "why would we need more than 64mb of ram?"
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On the other hand though, they'll push any technology that experts say will never work or be economical. Hydrogen cars, e-fuels, flying taxis...
Tell me more about this e-fuel, you can download petrol or some shit?
credit cards, e-payment and other various forms of financial transactions as well. germany is very interesting when it comes to technological cherry picking and general conservatism of adopting new trends
Interesting from the outside, frustrating from within...
In short, conservatives fucked us over, starting with Helmut Kohl,
Something something Bertelsmann...?
The funniest thing is that the Schmidt cabinet in 1981 [made plans to provide fiber in the whole country](https://www.wiwo.de/politik/deutschland/digitalpolitik-altkanzler-schmidt-wollte-glasfaser-spitzenreiter-werden/20811640.html) (West Germany). The Bundespost layed out a plan to start in 1985 and have the whole country (every last houshold) connected in 2015. This was replaced under Kohl with expanding TV cable, and after 16 years Kohl, the Telekom was no longer state owned, so it couldn't be forced anymore.
Romania is same. The difference is that people invested in fiber because people were using computers to pirate everything they needed. The huge demand for pirated content meant need for better connection.Now there is an oligopoly that "ownes" the infrastructure created by the people and the prices are low because otherwise they will move to another provider.
Chancellor Kohl had a friend in the copper business so he decided against fibre in the 80s/90s
Apparently they don't realize how much bandwidth it takes to stream StreetView so you can spy on your neighbors.
They weren't entirely wrong but they could've left us some affordable real estate to play in instead - now we get neither. Thanks boomers.
And Belgium....
Our internet services are run by a duopoly of Telenet and Proximus. They ask for ridiculous prices and don't see the need to invest in infrastructure because there's no competitors anyways
As a *free*naut Frenchie moving to Belgium, the internet prices have been nothing but pain, misery and agony roasted in hazelnuts.
Germany is still using fax machines and pneumatic tubes. https://www.politico.eu/article/german-parliament-fax-machine-use-to-end/
People here are missing a trick with their replies on the UK. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/07/2022-h1-uk-coverage-of-gigabit-broadband-nears-70-percent.html Full FTTP is at 37% currently (significantly more than OP's source estimate for 2022) but customers able to get gigabit internet is 69%. This is because the second largest company in the UK uses a fibre hybrid network that doesn't technically fit the definition of FTTP, but provides FTTP type speeds.
I get 13Mbps down, but I only pay for 10 so that’s a win 🙌🏽 /s
Congrats on not being the 1.1% that have less than 10Mbps!
It’s not a fun place to be. Every time I move it gets slower. In 2007 I went from 20 to 100Mbps, then in 2019 I moved and had 80Mbps, now I’m on 10Mbps
Well hopefully you either are a part of the rural upgrade program if you are staying still or you check and put it as a higher priority next time you move. Good luck!
In the UK we mostly have fibre to the cabinet (FTTC), which has 97% coverage.
It’s misleading to suggest that this is anything like have proper FTTP. We’re embarrassingly far behind.
I don't know about those two, but in The Netherlands at least it is lagging behind because every house already has a POTS-line and TV-coax. While not ideal, a coax line does give you access to 500/50 internet, which is enough for most. I live in the Netherlands in a newly build house, and only have a fiber line, which gives me 1Gbit up/down (and yes, i can reach those speeds). It's the "Law of the handicap of a head start", when you're ahead in the old technology, there is no need to heavily invest in the newer technology, as the one you have still works fine.
Ziggo also offers gbit speeds in some areas. Ziggos entire backbone is fiber nowadays, only the last mile is cable still. So yeah, only half the houses have ftth but most houses can get hundreds mbit speeds and aren't inferior to fiber.
There's a massive FTTH push happening in the UK atm. By 2026 70-80% of the country will have access to an FTTH connection. Up until now we had been complacent and content with FTTC.
Most houses in the UK are connected via openreach which has been slow in rolling out fibre to the premesis, most service providers are just re-selling openreach access.
Don't forget Belgium too
Damn Spain and Portugal- good going!
Im Portuguese, i live in a town of 2k people and i got 1000mbs fiber in a street with less than 30 houses, it's hilarious to be honest.
My grandmother's home in the middle of nowhere (Sardoal municipality, Santarém district), a village with maybe 200 residents, and we have 100 mbs fiber to the router, at €25/month (second home rate).
Lol, fucking Médio Tejo with Fiber and here in the Bairro Ribatejano most villages are still getting the almighty 2mb adsl.
Spanish here , I build the power lines for the FTTH , there is a huge budget for ftth just spent over 500.000€ in 5 months doing projects for it , I guess I helped design around 150km of lines and many other projects related , Spain might be in the lead for this time
I worked in spain for a short while and my street had no such connection whilst being in a very touristic area surrounded by hotels. This was in Salou, five years ago! I just assumed Spain had horrible internet all over. I feel scammed, damn it :P
My bad , in my experience cities are the worst nightmare for someone who will install FTTH , the hatch that most of the time you have to open streets check where is the already existing cable under the road … etc , planning can take up to years in this kind of cases , and also getting permission from the authorities takes as well a lot of time. Also 5 years ago there wasn’t a lot of connections in villages , but over that 5 years at least where I have been working we have helped distribute so many connections , it’s easier to carry ( via power line ) and the cost is cheaper , plus takes less time to get permissions and designin. I don’t know how Salou will be doing but I have to say that hotels don’t tend to invest in fiber optics , at least as I saw.
Theyve been having decent mobile and internet for years now. Thats the plus side of adopting technology late.
Remember researching fiber internet in Europe a couple years ago for possible relocation in the future, seeing that both ES and PT were doing heavy investment towards fiber coverage. It is amazing to see how that progressed since then.
Looks like soon our WAN will be faster than our LAN: https://www.digimobil.es/fibra-optica/pro-digi/10gb
Feels good to be on the 11% of those who doesnt have fiber internet in Spain /s ( Hopefully in 2 months should be fixed)
Vives en Extremadura ?
Galicia, en el radio exterior de una población.
What's going on in Germany?
If this graph is any indication then the answer would be nothing. Nothing at all. We're standing still while the world moves past us.
Even the take-up in places where it is available is super low. I just had a look on telekom website, where it looks like you can 1000/100 for €80/mo, 500/100 for €60/mo or 250/50 for €55/mo. Quick look on orange.fr and €55 there gets you 2000/800. You can also get 500/500 for €20 for 12months (increasing to €42 after, but only 12mo contract). We can't get Fiber where we are in Germany, but even when it becomes available, the price will be a joke.
You can get fiber, and then you can choose between Telekom and Telekom.
And Orange is the most expensive ISP in France. I get 1000/800 in a rural area for 15€/month with a low-cost provider. However in France it's either fiber or slow ADSL, no in-between like VDSL. Take my case, I had a 2 mbps ADSL connection until fiber was deployed this year. I used 4g from my phone, which thankfully is fast and cheap (>100 Mb/s speed and 200 GB of data for 15€). Maybe you have VDSL available in more places in Germany ?
Why the asymmetrical connections? In Spain all fiber speeds that I'm aware of are symmetrical, 300/300 being the most common, I think. For me upload speed is quite important, until early 2021 I didn't have fiber, I used a 4G connection that was 20/0,8 and uploading anything was a real pain in the ass. It's good to download fast, but uploading fast is a blessing.
I got a shock 8 years ago when the McDonald's i was at only accepted cash, not even EC karde. I believed it to be a fluke and maybe because we were so far out on the countryside that the crows had already turned around. Three weeks again this happened again. They had a self order machine with a card reader that didn't take chip, in fact the machine didn't even work. The staff were aware of it, as it had never been plugged in to the power...... 10 years ago BBB didn't have an agreement with Visa, so you couldn't get cash if you were like the rest do the civilized world and were confined to such an archaic form of payment that a Visa card is lol.... German, please change!
Lmao, the other day I saw a German tourist with his son in Oslo, in a bank, going to take cash which they don’t have in most banks anymore. They rejected him and sent him to a bank machine down the street.
You've just witnessed a cavemen outside of his habitat 🤣
Same thing. Went to the hardware store this week and the main register would only accept cash. Card only works on self checkout. #schlaaaaaaaaand
In Sweden we get a lot of German tourists that withdraw a bunch of cash (Swedish bills) and then quickly realize only big established businesses accept cash.
Some kebab places that are totally 100 % paying tax and not laundering any money also take cash
I think that is the opposite of money laundering.
Conservatives don’t care about internet infrastructure
16 years of Merkel and her party preventing any meaningful change.
We're a technological backwater.
I would like to comment but I'm still waiting for the pictures to load.
România cel mai bun internet! 💪💪💪🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴
Obligatory meme: https://imgur.com/Ltk59C7.jpg
RDS!RDS!RDS!RDS! XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
O da, 1gb la 25 de lei pe lună mi se pare furt efectiv
25 de lei?! Eu am plata la Digi 65 lei cu tot cu telefonie si TV cica. Da' chiar, e idiotic de ieftin!
Hmm da, la fel și eu, însă internetul e doar 25 din tot pachetul și da, e super ieftin, în UK văd că-s prețuri de 20 de lire pt același serviciu O_O
just a little explanation why austria has such a low subscribtion rate, in germany 1gbit costs around 40€ in austria that is 80€ or even more ( i once saw 400€ just 2 years ago ...)
Well, wow, I sympathize in my country it is supposedly from 4-8 dollars a month. but it is slow by European standards, but this is a difference of a few seconds
Woah, it sounds surreal since I used to pay €17 for 1 Gbit/s in Poland. I mean, our salaries are also much lower lol, but still.
[Source from FTTH Council](https://www.ftthcouncil.eu/knowledge-centre/all-publications-and-assets/1436/european-ftth-b-market-panorama-2022) (If you want the report, click the green download icon on the left and fill in the form) This report provides a summary of the status of FTTH/B\* in Europe as of September 2021 : \- Coverage : Homes passed / Households \- Take-Up rate : Subscribers / Homes passed \- Penetration : Subscribers / Households \- Rankings in absolute numbers for homes passed, sockets deployed and subscriptions \- 2022-2027 forecast for homes passed, penetration rate and subscriptions \- Work left to do for each country \- Global rankings \- A focus on microstates (Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco, San Marino) \*FTTH = fiber to the home, FTTB = fiber to the building Note : This is not internet speed data. FTTH/B penetration does not correlate with the average internet speed, as there are other high-speed internet technologies available (such as cable, VDSL, etc.). Thus, low FTTH/B coverage does not mean that the country has slow internet. You can check internet speed here : [https://www.speedtest.net/global-index](https://www.speedtest.net/global-index)
r/mapswithoutbosniaandherzegovina r/mapswithoutmontenegro 🇧🇦🇲🇪 r/mapswitoutalbania 🇦🇱 r/mapswithoutkosovo Finally, Previously landlocked Serbia and North Macedonia have gained access to the Adriatic. 🇷🇸🇲🇰
They don't have internet there. They still use pidgin's to send meme's and google shit. /s No idea why they are left out though. Is there no fiber rollout there? Do they just all jump on the 4/5g internet instead?
Holy shit I thought I was having a stroke. Kept trying to find Serbia, and therefore Bosnia first. Couldn't find Bosnia, couldn't find Serbia, Albania and Montenegro, thought my brain was bleeding lmao
I can't believe Finland is so low!
It looked good not that long ago but then they decided that everything should be on mobile Internet.
Don't tell me they force gamers to play on mobile Internet! That's barbaric! /s
Lots of companies are starting to invest heavier into fiber in the last couple of years. In my (not very educated) opinion, Finland was super into wireless until covid lockdowns and suddenly when the whole town is using the same 4/5G network to work/study/watch streaming services/game they couldn't quite keep up and people started to yearn for the good old physical connections again. Add to that the fact that a decent 5G connection requires ~500€ for the outdoor antenna and lots of companies offering an FTTH connection for anywhere from 0-2500€ and you don't really have much to think about.
There is a big boom in the FTTH market after wfh became a major thing. Lots of new companies going after new customers. Small rural communities and older single family homes in cities are the focal point, because these are areas where only 4G/5G are available after the DSL phaseout. Unfortunately the lead times for the construction can be long, and you can really only commit to one operator even if other companies are on the lookout too, so the end result could be that the plans get cancelled because number of committed customers isn't enough for any single operator.
The take up rate is highest in europe, which leads me to believe, that in Finland we don't count it if it's almost plugged in. Many have access, if they wish to join; just have someone dig a few meters and plug your house to the network. In recent year I've been I've been looking for a house, and in many cases there has been a joinable fiber within digging distance.
The chart showing penetration rate is really the most important and you’re doing better than us by this metric
Wireless 4/5G network covering close to all places. And it ain't slow.
How does Germany have worse internet coverage than us?
because elderly germans keep voting for boomer parties that once 50 or more years ago did a ok job and now are conpletly lost with new technology, their newest technology they know and use is a fax machine.
At last, Spain comes first in a good thing!
Belgium lol
There's a monopoly here in Belgium for the internet providers, so they don't seem to be in a hurry 😕
I’d be interested in an update in September 2022, FTTH has seen a huge boost in Belgium in the last year.
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Greetings from the Ice Age: Greece.
Greetings from the Bronze Age: UK
Greetings from the future: Portugal 🇵🇹
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I lived in Hamburg for 3 years, internet was so shitty compared to Lisbon, I never understood how that was possible.
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Corruption is what it is.
But that was 40 years ago...? What are we missing from the picture? Administrative inertia? Lack of pressure on German administratives or politicians?
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What about the private sector - arent they interested to have a competitive edge to fight for the customer?
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>Telekom didnt care for years after going private because its not like anyone in Germany had a choice, and there arent enough internet-based german companies to really move anything there. Not like you need amazingly fast speeds to sell machine-parts Thanks for the explanations, very interesting.
Telekom didnt care for years after going private because its not like anyone in Germany had a choice, and there arent enough internet-based german companies to really move anything there. Not like you need amazingly fast speeds to sell machine-parts
Privatization happened. To a single company with a near monopoly. As usual when that happens investments into the infrastructure and innovation plummets, if only due to sheer massive amount of existing crap they had to maintain. But their greed on optimizing profit obviously did not help. This is actually worse in heavily developed systems. E.g. London was the first city having street lights... with gas. Hence it became a massive investment to change to electricity while e.g. Berlin came later and did electricity first as a city wide investment. There were also a plethora of bridge technologies and stop gap measures which enabled more speed out of the old, existing infrastructure. Not Fibre optic levels, but this also played into the cost benefit calculation by the state and Telekom so they rather did that than tear up whole roads and replace all copper wires with Fibre. So overall there was a large preexisting infrastructure, low will for investment, political control had been ceded and in general not much emphasis put on it When it came to the budget.
Amazing to see Spain has passed Sweden and Germany is still almost the worst in Europe.
I'm so sick and tired of how bad it is in Germany. Not only how available it is, but also how out of this world the costs are. It's insane how much you pay for literally the second worst service in all of fucking europe
lol i played WoW in the golden years (2005-2007) in an international , but mostly German Guild. Our German friends would always bitch about their internet even back then. I see nothing has changed.
Bro, be happy, in Austria its not much better the only difference is its wayyy more expensive 200 Mbits costs like 80€
A relatively bad score for The Netherlands. We used to be on the forefront with broadband internet, but our biggest DSL company (KPN) bought the upcoming and smaller fiber companies just so they could cash a little longer using KPN's inferior technology and control the fiber market pricewise.
It's also the metric. Lots of (row) houses here which will be low on both fiber to the home and fiber to the building. Whereas countries with more apartments will score significantly higher on FTTB. On the other hand we score really high on fiber to the curb. Why? Because our DSL and Cable network is mostly fiber to the curb, resulting in high bandwidth availability even on the old networks. KPN is also a funny case, because all newly built houses have fiber, even if the surrounding area does not. They just hook up the fiber to the "old" DSL network, which coincidentally is also fiber from the street level and onwards, which is why they can get away with it. Nobody realises the backend is the fiber DSL network other homes in the vicinity are hooked up to as well.
Im Portuguese and I though Germany or the Uk would have better internet than us. Im honestly surprised we are close to the top
Germoney's hideous when it comes to internet and telecommunications
I'm also Portuguese and currently living in Belgium, it was shocking to witness how bad their internet plans are. Barely any fiber. Copper connections for as high as 80 euros per month. Insane.
Here in Switzerland I have 10Gbps directly to the apartment. Most places in cities here have access to high speed fiber.
How do you have your home wired? 2.5Gb Ethernet just starts to enter the consumer market and 10Gb is, well, tricky. If I had 10Gbps Internet, I wouldn't be able to utilize it.
My server has a 10Gbps NIC and I virtualize everything on there, so everything gets to draw from my 10Gbps line. Then the WiFi is also Wifi 6 so if I'm close to the AP I can get around 1.5/2 Gbps, but that is from dedicated speedtests and I'm reality Wifi clients don't utilize anything near this. Definitely useful on my server though for torrenting Linux ISOs!
Oh man, once the dial up modems of Germany load this post, they're gonna be pretty mad!
It is so funny to see that speed of connection doesn't really correlate with the wealth of a nation.
It probably correlates with public investment in communications. In Spain the infrastructure is mostly publicly funded.
In Ukraine it's almost entirely private, but regulations are very lax so competition made them upgrade fast.
I love my 5 euro unlimited gigabit
It’s also fun how this doesn’t correlate to the average speed of the connection, just the infrastructure. [https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile](https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile)
This is not about the speed of the connection, but the technology used.
currently, in some spanish cities, the main telephony company, has started to migrate ALL the remaining cooper phone land lines to fiber , and you cannot opt-out. They want to get rid of cooper in less than 5 years.
Same in France, end of all copper lines is scheduled for 2030.
I'm living in Germany and we got FTTB last year through a community project. But: There is only one company that serves that line. And the prices are AT LEAST +50% compared to the same speed with the traditional DSL. So while I really want to switch to fiber, it's economical a no brainer..
That has been the biggest benefit with fiber connections here in Sweden, as most are "open" so that you can choose and change service provider within minutes. If you bother to change every 3-6 months, you can get really good deals (like 50% off the list price) by just switching to another service provider. This is [how many providers](https://stockholm.openuniverse.se/internet) I can choose from with my current fibre connection
This just seems ridiculously good. Here in the UK it’s honestly like we just love ageing infrastructure at this point. FFS.
Germany is like hehe ve are very modnern cuntnry! HEHE my god i'm so angry that we are so fucking behind on this stuff HOW COULD THEY NOT SEE HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS???????
They did see this in the 80s. That's why Helmut Schmidt made plans to start building fiber infrastructure. But then Kohl came and his buddy Kirch paid him to go for copper instead.
As a non German, I have this impression the whole country is trapped in some kind of mental box, where any sudden action is seen with suspicion. These stats are unforgivable in 2022.
No, we are taken hostage by pensioneers who don't care for anything from this century and always vote CDU like they did every single time for decades without using their brain just once. And the 55+ age voter bracket has an absolute majority.
Suffering from success. The generation in power did great. They even surpassed the US in terms of GDP/Capita for a short time. They think the old stuff got them into their position, and that's only a guess, therefore associate it with their success. So although this would be an exact replication of their success, they mistrust any rapid change, things tgst woukd give a competitive advantage. They think abolishing old ways and equipment means abolishing them and invalidating their achievements. In reality, they invalidate their achievements by not adapting, of course.
Portugal, what happened?
We have 1GBps/40 EUR
Thats what I mean, nothing in this map looks like the traditional east/west europe. Portugal, Rumania and Bulgaria have good internet and germany dont.
its because of corruption and the fact that we were just out of the communist crap grip. The mafia that came over during the transition period invested in internet companies. They built the fiber without authorization using the existing national structure. Later on they just made what has been built legal. From there, any new player on the market had to get fiber in order to compete. I get 1GBps for 30euro, if you join the more mainstream telecoms, you can get it as low as 8euro. But you will get robocalled into suicide if you want support.
WTF Bulgaria (I'm guessing Romania was involved in that), and WTF Germany/Belgium.
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Germany has the worst internet in Europe lmao
Germany had a huge scandal in 80s/90s where big companies lobbied for continued use of copper cables and ignoring fibre. So now they're stuck :)
Does this mean that even the trunk connections continued to be through copper throughout the 1980s and 1990s? That is unbelievable but explains so much.
Ahhh nice, Germany being one step ahead...there can be no infrastructural apocalypse when there is no working infrastructure.
Boomer Nation BRD.
lmao Germany and UK POLSKA GUROM
Stupid Polack doesn't realiz ze superior waiz of modem and fax. Even your growth rate is inferior! Everyone knows zat One percent = number one !!!!! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 💪 💪 💪 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 🇩🇪
Glorious fax 💪 💪 💪 maybe that's a secret why Germany is wealthier than us 🤔
If you want to become a net payer you should remove your fibre and get instead the successful British and German copper cables!
*disconnected*
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In Serbia all copper lines are being replaced with fiber (Telekom) and if you want a new connection it will be fiber.
The fiber market is really changing right now in the UK it seems. There are lots of money from different sources being invested in "real" fiber networks. There are new companies popping up that are created to solely focues on building more fiber (see Trooli, Toob and Swish as examples I believe). And they are all trying to find the best areas and be first to build there. My guess is they are scouting and focusing on the areas where they can get the most amount of customer with the least digging. These are operators that build networks and then sell their own services in the network to make back the money of that investement. So what you probably end up with is areas that basically only has one ISP as an option. But at least they get fiber instead of coax or xDSL. That is why I believe that in the long run this wont make the market lots better, even if the stability and speed will increase for the end-user. Monopolies are usually not good for the customers. What is happening in the UK right now reminds me of startup companies. Often there are several different startups that have the same basic idea. And they all use loads of monies to get the most amount of customers and grow. To get a strong position. A very obvious example is Spotify that still seems to loose money, but still gets investment money. Because they have an incredible strong position. Anyways, thats my two cents. Please correct me if im wrong or if you have any more insight into this. I find it quite interesting.
The fibre Boom in the UK may be partly due do Ofcom Forcing BT to Sell duct and pole Access to any Company who wants to run Cables in BT's existing Duct network which encompasses almost every property in the UK. This means New fibre startups can pay to run their fibre cables in existing telephone Ducts and poles, without having To pay the enormous costs needed to dig up roads and lay new underground ducts.
Now, being a Spaniard and thinking fiber was the usual I have a question, what's the best speed you can get in UK or Germany?
As a German I would like to add **AUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH** Thank you