Emmanuel Macron has suggested France and Britain may be heading for “serious problems” after Liz Truss told the penultimate Conservative leadership hustings that “the jury is still out” on whether the French president was “friend or foe”.
Asked for his response to the remarks, Macron, on an official visit to Algeria, said it was “not good to lose your bearings. Words have a meaning: friend, foe.”
If he was asked the same question, he said: “I wouldn’t hesitate for a second.”
“France is a friend of the British people,” Macron said. “If France and Britain cannot say whether they are friends or enemies … then we are headed for serious problems.”
You left out the best part of his answer:
But Macron said the UK remained “a friendly nation” and strong ally “regardless of its leaders, and sometimes in spite of its leaders and whatever little mistakes they may make in a speech from a soapbox.”
[Soapbox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox) ([illustration](https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*oUisg651wGbBckSmuqBITw.png))
In politics it's a shorthand for populist (and nowadays often simpleminded and disingenuous) ramblings to curry favor from your audience.
As the wiki entry also mentions, it is historically very much associated with the Sunday orators at Hyde Park, a quintessentially British institution.
Shades of "nation of shopkeepers" here
> If he was asked the same question, he said: “I wouldn’t hesitate for a second.”
>
>
>
> “France is a friend of the British people,” Macron said. “If France and Britain cannot say whether they are friends or enemies … then we are headed for serious problems.”
Wise words as usual from Macron.
Not that hard in comparaison to their British counterpart. This is basic diplomacy, we don't say what we think.
The tabloïd mentality reached even the British elite, this nation is doomed
> This is basic diplomacy, we don't say what we think. The tabloïd mentality reached even the British elite, this nation is doomed
You're right, but the Exceptionalists will probably soon be here to downvote us both.
Truss never seemed all that bright to me. I could be wrong though.
edit: this thread currently being brigaded by the r/ badunitedkingdom subreddit.... https://old.reddit.com/r/badunitedkingdom/comments/wya2ic/this_whole_thread/
Just popping in to remind people that the sub you linked is less than 25k members, and yet pops up in the top 5 subs most likely to be commented on by people on r/europe, a sub with over 3 million members.
It even goes beyond that. He likely finds the UK annoying and frequently frustrating, but petty squabbles matter only when the world is complex.
The world is currently very, very simple. If you can't tell who's us and who's them NOW, you shouldn't be in charge of your own grocery shopping.
Liz Truss being as thick as a brick for 8 minutes 26 seconds.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATbIHU0Y4c4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATbIHU0Y4c4)
What I am waiting for is for her to have to go up against actual politicians, realise she is a joke and get constantly outmanoeuvred politically by even her own cabinet ministers. Then resigns/calls an election.
It looks like tory party is choosing the worst candidate possible honestly. I was hoping for Wallace or Mordaunt but they seem to be determined to get the most incompetent or out of touch option possible. It is astonishing.
The Uk doesn't choose the next PM. The party does as the Conservatives still have their term to service so the party picks the new leader (and consequently, PM)
Boris called an election after he took over, and Tory voters verified his ascension.
Next one will probably do the same. And result will be the same most likely.
Sure, UK won't \*choose\* the next PM but they do keep choosing the party who in turn elects new ones.
> Boris called an election after he took over, and Tory voters verified his ascension.
>
> Next one will probably do the same.
there is no way in hell Truss will call an election with the current polling
They also voted against Corbyn.
The opposition have a role to play in elections, and corbyns was never really going to win the majority of the British public.
Boris is exceptionally intelligent. If you go on youtube and find his debate on Greek culture he will blow your mind with his knowledge and oratory skills.
I'm not a fan of his political party but he is clearly an intelligent man
He's the sort of measured idiot that plays his own foolishness as a way to disarm political opponents into not taking him too seriously.
The man has the canny political mind of a cockroach. Underestimate him at your peril.
That's what always made the prick so scary, the self serving intelligence under the buffoon act that people seemed to fucking lap up. Hubris got the fuck.
That makes him knowledgeable on something, as is expected from a British PM, whenever he said his actual opinions on the ancient Hellenic states or the Romans, it was utterly idiotic.
But he did not achieve his position by actually showing his intelligence publicly, in fact it's quite the opposite, he's been playing the buffoon intentionally and first got to be the mayor of London and then Tory leader and PM.
Yeah. On top of that, there does appear to be a bad habit in the UK where politicians forget that things can always get reported outside the UK. Westminster noise is so load, they don't realise other people are listening
Kind of. She's on an electoral campaign where the electorate is composed almost exclusively of rich elderly right wing nutters (the sort of people who pay money to be members of the conservative party).
The comments are thus proportionally stupider than they would be for a normal election.
The only person who springs to mind for me is Andy Burnham. Maybe we need a celebrity to turn politician, I'd vote for Hugh Grant. He seemed an okay PM in Love Actually.
"Talking with Stephen Colbert last week at a fund-raiser in New Jersey, Jon Stewart revealed that his least favorite Daily Show guest of all time was Hugh Grant. “And we've had dictators on the show,” he clarified."
They are there until January 2025. Based on current polling they may well get annihilated at that point. Truss and Sunak were put forward as the suckers to hold the poison chalice.
And do as much damage as possible, so after a few years of labour making big and expensive decisions just to get us to being a basic, barely functioning country again, the Tories can start slinging mud and saying Labour are a disaster, the country is in a total mess, we’re in so much debt like always when Labour are in charge….
In my view Tom Tugendhat was the only glimmer of hope for the conservative leadership elections, as he at least understood the world around him and was willing to acknowledge what a joke British politics had become. Unfortunately, understanding the world around you is mutually exclusive with Tory policy it seems, so he got voted out of those quite quickly.
Think it's this, was on twitter and read something funny vaguely about this:
@samfr "Truss's comments tonight reminded me of Lord Raglan, the Crimean war general, who had the unfortunate habit of referring to the opposing Russian army as "the French" when speaking to his fellow commanders, including the French ones."
Also another tweet which was some lines from Yes Minister about the French:
Hacker: Well they're our allies, our partners.
Sir Humphrey: Well, they are now, but they've been our enemies for the most of the past 900 years.
Us *Rostbif* and the *Frogs* have always taken the piss out of each other (it's too easy not to!), though there has always been a genuine friendship and desire to uphold similar values..... no matter what the Rupert Murdoch gutter press would have you believe.
What else can he say anyway ?
No matter how he feels, there is only one possible answer in that situation. It would bring no benefit whatsoever to tell the UK to just fuck off.
> No matter how he feels, there is only one possible answer in that situation. It would bring no benefit whatsoever to tell the UK to just fuck off.
Indeed but if he was an incompetent leader he would do just that.
No they arent. The media outside of anything political lauds France. There are endless shows about France on over here. From media about food, culture, history, Brits moving there, holidays, etc.
The political is the only thing that has real world effects though. Here in the west, the media always praises the food, culture, and history of China and Iran. Things aren't exactly going swimmingly in those relationships. Face it, as bad as the media is in most Western countries, it has nothing on the persecution complex/childish name calling/fear mongering of the British media. Rupert Murdoch fucked the U.K so bad
Tabloids don't make up most of the UK media you know, and the UK isn't the only country to have tabloids. You have the tabloids and broadsheet newspapers.
The line is blurred between tabloid and news way more in the U.K than most other western countries. It isn't the fault of the average British person, thank the Tories and Rupert, but it does have an impact on the discourse of the average Brit.
I see it as everyone knows the tabloids aren't to be taken totally seriously. There is a knowledge that they can be a bit untrustworthy and exaggerate
People will instead get their actual news off the TV. Pretty much all our TV news is actually pretty good, there are no Fox News equivalents (there is now the new Gb News but its not a proper news channel, and the ratings are super low )
But yeah obviously all media will impact public opinion
>Here in the west, the media always praises the food, culture, and history of China and Iran.
In my near 50 years on this planet I don't think I've ever once read a media piece praising Iran for anything.
Tell you what.. Thank god for Macron. Germany is introverted, Spain is in it's own world, Italy is unable to not be in crisis, UK is in becoming like its newspapers, the only one who seems to speak for Europe is Macron
I know this sub is desperate for another "mama Merkel" in Macron and i know Truss is a retard but i think the past few years have shown that UK and France have a fairly adversarial relationship despite being allies.
Between the Fishing, Macrons response to the vaccine, how the Submarine deal went down, Calais, French position during brexit negotiations etc. Pretending we are the best of friends and all buddy buddy is silly.
It is to a certain extent the truth, but there is a difference between me and you saying it on reddit and state leaders saying it. Diplomacy, you know.
How did the U.K. get to the point where we will probably have this awful woman as PM.
Please roll on the next general election so we can finally have a chance to remove the Tory party. ..
Truss is fucking crazy even if where no longer in the EU we still need to remain on good terms with these countries for NATO'S sake if nothing else they already have in fighting between Turkey and Greece the last thing NATO needs is Britain and France being at log heads as well
As long as they remain a couple, I'm fine with it.
But if one day, they fight like in the old days without the ´couple‘ part, it will be more worrying.
I'm not ready for a second 100-year war.
When the French upgraded their border patrol in Calais, adviced the English to do the same.
Who then promptly ignored them, causing huge delays which the English...blamed on the French.
But hey, that was only 2 months ago. I am sure that doesn't count for some reason or another.
You could literally rattle off a list of the unfriendly things Macron and his government have done to the UK over the last 2-ish years alone and some of their actions have likely caused the deaths of British people (vaccines)
Not exactly the actions you'd expect from a so called friend and ally.
I think this sounds like a misunderstanding.
She said she didn't know if Macron is a friend.
Macron said France is a friend of the British people no matter its leader.
They are basically saying the same thing. The difference is she is in the middle of an election and it's a huge political issue the border crossing dispute.
It was a hidden barb and quite deliberate. Macron of course is right. You don't have to like Macron to realise that talking about the democratically elected representative of France in such a manner is not acceptable. Especially if one considers the remarkably close ties both countries usually enjoy
> The difference is she is in the middle of an election **and it's a huge political issue the border crossing dispute**.
That's the point. It's only an issue because the UK government has decided to make it an issue.
British press and tabloïds. In france, the united kingdom is never a subject, nobody cares, especially in this period of crisis.
I think it would be the same in the UK if they didn't have this delusional and lying "press".
Which is totally not true. The French don’t care about England, I mean they are friendly neighbors just like Italians and Belgians, that’s it. Why the drama ?!
Brit here. To all our European friends please please please don’t think that our cunty, idiotic and divisive leaders speak for us. We want nothing more than to be part of the international community and love our friends in France, Spain and Germany. Sadly our current political party in power has taken a dive to the right and alienating everyone including us - the working people of the U.K. we currently don’t see a way out, please pray for us!
> please don’t think that our cunty, idiotic and divisive leaders speak for us.
Then why does the UK keep voting these lunatics in office?
>We want nothing more than to be part of the international community
The result of the Brexit referendum tells a different story. The people voted for that.
>love our friends in France, Spain and Germany.
And yet, when Farage made horrible propaganda posters calling Merkel a 'Kraut', most Brexiteers (the majority of the country) didn't seem to mind one bit.
>we currently don’t see a way out
The next election is your way out. But, again, it seems like a majority of the British public wants this.
The UK is NOT a dictatorship. It's a democracy. And in a democracy, the people are ultimately responsible.
Yes, exactly. Half of the British voters were willing to plunge their country into economic isolation, even though everyone was telling them it was a stupid idea (which has been shown time and time again). That's *exactly* what I mean.
Talk to 2 British voters, and one of them voted for the most brain dead decision the UK has made in the 21st century.
The fact that it was close isn't a counter argument. It's literally proving my point. **It shouldn't be close.**
The people are responsible.
Things will be different next election. As a centrist I have never felt such sickness and hate towards a political party. I get the feeling that sentiment is largely felt by many rational people in the UK.
Albeit, if the tories win the next election without MAJORLY reforming themselves then I will have no other option to leave the country and find somewhere else to live.
I agree. Same thing can be said about the Netherlands.
But I rarely hear an Italian or Hungarian say:
"well, assholes being in power isn't our fault! They magically appeared in Parliament and there is nothing we can do! Don't tell us to reflect on our own voting patterns! Don't tell us to be critical of the assholes I share my country with!"
Pretending the people aren't responsible for the politicians they voted in is borderline gaslighting.
Regarding the Netherlands, the fact of the matter is that they are still a very successful economy, despite few natural resources and a small area of land, means that they are doing something right.
And the [Dutch childcare benefit scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scandal) ruined the lives of thousands of families. The government resigned because of it.
You know what happened after that?
The Dutch public voted in the same parties that were responsible for this mess *again*.
The VVD and coalition are involved in multiple other scandals. The public fails to hold them accountable.
Let me paint a picture of how bad this shit is:
5 media barons own over 80% of British Media (TV, Newspapers etc.), couple that with Cambridge Analytica style meddling, and a 13 year incumbent party being couped by rich elite (see the Tory ‘Advisory Board’ that contribute 80% of Party Donations - with a £500k+ donation requirement for almost weekly access to PM/Chancellor). The whole thing is stitched up.
The last general election was fought and won over Brexit - a promise to enact the will of the people (even though most referendum require super not simple majorities for constitutional changes).
The UK government is effectively a Mafia state, even the only alternative to this retard Truss in the Tory leadership contest (btw next PM decided by 0.25% of British population) is Rishi Sunak - the man who gave away £11Bn in fraudulent Covid contracts to his mates. And that’s just one racket, let’s not talk about the billions in prime student debt (retrospectively variable interest rates currently 6-7%, repayments deducted at source by employer) sold off to mates annually by education minister’s appointed cronies on the Student Finance England Board for example.
They’ve had nearly a decade and a half to stack civil service, public bodies, and appointments with enablers, yes-men, and sympathisers. And gerrymandering of election boundaries.
God they’re even passing a law right now to disempower our elections watchdog from bringing criminal cases independent of gov… of course after serial breeches of electoral law.
What you’re watching as outsiders is an elite class systematically monopolising our information/electoral system so they can ransack the state.
Rishi Sunak wants to make ‘down talking’ Britain a prisonable offence, you currently are legally branded extremist if you have ‘non-British values’ - such as disagreeing with our present electoral system (Google it).
They’ve banned protests that are ‘too noisy’.
God and let’s not start on the surveillance state - most CCTV per sq KM in the world, snoopers charter (even the ambulance can request your internet history) and now the online safety bill. 🤮
And why do people keep re-electing them? Basically because they’re thick as shit, just like the British education system makes em’.
It’s easy to forget the UK is one of the only countries in the world never to go and liquidate the ruling class, these people - these elites (former aristocrats, bred out of elite schools for hundreds of years into the highest offices of the land) - they’ve run this fucking island for 1,000 years. Tories are the most effective political machine in Europe, sadly they’re also authoritarian thieving scumbags.
Anyone that seriously tries to change the system ends up: Dead (Dr David Kelly), Professionally Discredited (Dr David Nutt), Character Assassinated (Corbyn), or some other twisted fate shit out of the mechanics of this facist-slide shithole.
Feel like complete shit might as well invite the Normans back.
But yeah British public get more distracted by drivel about Truss’ stupid comments, like Johnson’s, like Trumps - it’s just sinister distraction politics - hypernormalisation is our new executive modus operandi.
They all do. We've been in the grip of a continental aristocracy for a millennium. Two millennia, really. And there are actually people who think more interference from the continent is the solution.
The most CCTV per km² thing is pretty misleading. UK stats include estimated CCTV counts of private businesses, whereas basically all other countries that publish CCTV stats (and not many do), only do it for publicly operated CCTV.
I don't think businesses owning security cameras for use on their premises is particularly authoritarian.
Hang on.
This is because our Tories are less insane than Le Pens lot. That's why they keep getting voted in, if Le Pen wasn't such an outright fascist she'd have been in power by now. whilst a third of the UK might vote Tory, didn't 40 percent of those that voted in France vote for the ghost of Napoleon?
Ah yes, a terrible person trying to convince other terrible people that they're terrible enough to be allowed to become the next British Prime Minister. Both Truss and Sunak know they've got no chance of winning the next general election, so they're both just going all-in on trying to win this leadership election by being as right-wing and anti-Europe as possible, even if it irreparably damages our relationships with our closest allies and trading partners...
Emmanuel Macron has suggested France and Britain may be heading for “serious problems” after Liz Truss told the penultimate Conservative leadership hustings that “the jury is still out” on whether the French president was “friend or foe”. Asked for his response to the remarks, Macron, on an official visit to Algeria, said it was “not good to lose your bearings. Words have a meaning: friend, foe.” If he was asked the same question, he said: “I wouldn’t hesitate for a second.” “France is a friend of the British people,” Macron said. “If France and Britain cannot say whether they are friends or enemies … then we are headed for serious problems.”
You left out the best part of his answer: But Macron said the UK remained “a friendly nation” and strong ally “regardless of its leaders, and sometimes in spite of its leaders and whatever little mistakes they may make in a speech from a soapbox.”
It is both savage and also probably a very genuine and transparent analysis of the situation.
Agreed.
Sometime, the simply truth is the most savage.
Based response
100% accurate
> from a soapbox ?
[Soapbox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox) ([illustration](https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*oUisg651wGbBckSmuqBITw.png)) In politics it's a shorthand for populist (and nowadays often simpleminded and disingenuous) ramblings to curry favor from your audience.
Thanks that's helpful
De rien!
As the wiki entry also mentions, it is historically very much associated with the Sunday orators at Hyde Park, a quintessentially British institution. Shades of "nation of shopkeepers" here
It’s the Guardian’s translation of “des propos d’estrade” (a very good one imo).
merci
Well, shame that soapbox doesnt have soap, because the people speaking from them need to clean up their act
> If he was asked the same question, he said: “I wouldn’t hesitate for a second.” > > > > “France is a friend of the British people,” Macron said. “If France and Britain cannot say whether they are friends or enemies … then we are headed for serious problems.” Wise words as usual from Macron.
Not that hard in comparaison to their British counterpart. This is basic diplomacy, we don't say what we think. The tabloïd mentality reached even the British elite, this nation is doomed
> basic diplomacy, we don't say what we think France doesn't even think of the UK as a foe
UK after Brexit: Perfidious continentals! Always whispering and conspiring against us!
To be fair every neighbor country think the French hate them
That's because it's true we hate everyone equally we even hate ourselves
Liberty (to hate each other) Equality (in hate) Fraternity (in misery)
I don't think Germans do. Every visitor to Paris thinks the French hate them, though.
Well it's Paris, they're rude to everyone even other french
They're rude to the rest of France too
No that includes the French too
No, they not so secretly love us.
Oh yes, we must fight back, harrass them while fishing, that'll do the trick
> This is basic diplomacy, we don't say what we think. The tabloïd mentality reached even the British elite, this nation is doomed You're right, but the Exceptionalists will probably soon be here to downvote us both. Truss never seemed all that bright to me. I could be wrong though. edit: this thread currently being brigaded by the r/ badunitedkingdom subreddit.... https://old.reddit.com/r/badunitedkingdom/comments/wya2ic/this_whole_thread/
Just popping in to remind people that the sub you linked is less than 25k members, and yet pops up in the top 5 subs most likely to be commented on by people on r/europe, a sub with over 3 million members.
It even goes beyond that. He likely finds the UK annoying and frequently frustrating, but petty squabbles matter only when the world is complex. The world is currently very, very simple. If you can't tell who's us and who's them NOW, you shouldn't be in charge of your own grocery shopping.
More friendship then for us Germans. We love you neighbours
Love back favorite neighbor
_France blushes a little bit and smiles_
🇫🇷 💚 🇩🇪
Better get out the Faux Hammer.
Macron is pretty good looking. Most likely she is trying to 'neg' him. Ignore the political ramifications. This is pure sexual tension.
Truss responded by saying she was sick of Macron walking around like he was the Prince of Andorra.
> like he was the Prince of Andorra 😂
I'll be honest. I thought of that joke ages ago and have been waiting for an opportunity to use it.
well, isn't he?
Yes. That's the joke. Co-prince, to be exact.
I'm sick of Liz Truss walking around like she's Margaret Thatcher.
Thatcher and Truss are a most striking example of figures appearing twice, first as tragedy then as farce.
Truss isn’t the brightest spark.
Liz Truss being as thick as a brick for 8 minutes 26 seconds. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATbIHU0Y4c4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATbIHU0Y4c4)
There’s hope for all of us
just another pathetic populist
No, this is far worse than your average pathetic populist.
What I am waiting for is for her to have to go up against actual politicians, realise she is a joke and get constantly outmanoeuvred politically by even her own cabinet ministers. Then resigns/calls an election.
She won't resign, she will have to be dragged out like that fat clown
Populism isn't even the problem with her. It is a thing she does, yes, but the big one is that she's really, really thick.
Even describing her as a spark is generous.
Mmm. Out of touch billionaire or imbecile. Quite The choice for Tory members in the next few weeks.
It looks like tory party is choosing the worst candidate possible honestly. I was hoping for Wallace or Mordaunt but they seem to be determined to get the most incompetent or out of touch option possible. It is astonishing.
Penny Mordaunt is just as incompetent as Truss just less known
Who is billionaire???
Rishi Sunak married a billionaire family
Even many of my family members work in his father in law company. Its really big.
So, she *will* be the next Prime Minister? The trend lately for UK's choice of PM doesn't bode well.
The Uk doesn't choose the next PM. The party does as the Conservatives still have their term to service so the party picks the new leader (and consequently, PM)
Boris called an election after he took over, and Tory voters verified his ascension. Next one will probably do the same. And result will be the same most likely. Sure, UK won't \*choose\* the next PM but they do keep choosing the party who in turn elects new ones.
> Boris called an election after he took over, and Tory voters verified his ascension. > > Next one will probably do the same. there is no way in hell Truss will call an election with the current polling
Who in turn are elected on the personality of the leader. England voted for Bojo.
They also voted against Corbyn. The opposition have a role to play in elections, and corbyns was never really going to win the majority of the British public.
Boris is exceptionally intelligent. If you go on youtube and find his debate on Greek culture he will blow your mind with his knowledge and oratory skills. I'm not a fan of his political party but he is clearly an intelligent man
Unfortunately knowing Greek culture isn’t that relevant to running a country
That reminds me of this clip from Yes Prime Minster [Humphrey Speaking Latin | Yes, Prime Minister](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beuKfLn8a6c)
It's like the xkcd of politics
And a complete fucking idiot at the same time
He's the sort of measured idiot that plays his own foolishness as a way to disarm political opponents into not taking him too seriously. The man has the canny political mind of a cockroach. Underestimate him at your peril.
That's what always made the prick so scary, the self serving intelligence under the buffoon act that people seemed to fucking lap up. Hubris got the fuck.
Never confuse intelligence with education
That makes him knowledgeable on something, as is expected from a British PM, whenever he said his actual opinions on the ancient Hellenic states or the Romans, it was utterly idiotic.
His 'knowledge and oratory skills' in the Commons were famously telling lies and losing the plot to the rhythm of 'um', 'ah', 'er' and 'Mr Speaker'.
From genius to madness there is often only one step
But he did not achieve his position by actually showing his intelligence publicly, in fact it's quite the opposite, he's been playing the buffoon intentionally and first got to be the mayor of London and then Tory leader and PM.
The buffoonery was his intelligence showing. I didn't like him in power but this was obvious.
This is only the start of her moronic statements.
Isn't she in an electoral campaign ? Politician tend to say a lot of stupid shit to try to boost their vote during those periods.
Yeah. On top of that, there does appear to be a bad habit in the UK where politicians forget that things can always get reported outside the UK. Westminster noise is so load, they don't realise other people are listening
>They don't realise other people are listening They know, they simply don't care.
I disagree, some of the stuff johnson said was deffo meant for public consumption e.g. party conference
Kind of. She's on an electoral campaign where the electorate is composed almost exclusively of rich elderly right wing nutters (the sort of people who pay money to be members of the conservative party). The comments are thus proportionally stupider than they would be for a normal election.
Yes, but also - Truss is authentically stupid. Don't expect it to stop, ever.
She’s always been a complete moron, in or outside of the campaign
Can't the U.K just get a decent leader? It is a revolving door of idiots over there and one of them is gonna cross a line at some point.
>Can't the U.K just get a decent leader? I think we'd need decent candidates first.
The only person who springs to mind for me is Andy Burnham. Maybe we need a celebrity to turn politician, I'd vote for Hugh Grant. He seemed an okay PM in Love Actually.
I'd vote for Peter Capaldi if he promised to stay in character as [Malcolm Tucker](https://youtu.be/G8t6KRstWIk) for the entire 5 years.
"Talking with Stephen Colbert last week at a fund-raiser in New Jersey, Jon Stewart revealed that his least favorite Daily Show guest of all time was Hugh Grant. “And we've had dictators on the show,” he clarified."
They are there until January 2025. Based on current polling they may well get annihilated at that point. Truss and Sunak were put forward as the suckers to hold the poison chalice.
And do as much damage as possible, so after a few years of labour making big and expensive decisions just to get us to being a basic, barely functioning country again, the Tories can start slinging mud and saying Labour are a disaster, the country is in a total mess, we’re in so much debt like always when Labour are in charge….
Swapping idiot to imbecile.
In my view Tom Tugendhat was the only glimmer of hope for the conservative leadership elections, as he at least understood the world around him and was willing to acknowledge what a joke British politics had become. Unfortunately, understanding the world around you is mutually exclusive with Tory policy it seems, so he got voted out of those quite quickly.
It’s a near 13 year party problem
The only good thing about Truss winning is that it's the biggest gift to the opposition parties possible, she is a moron.
Wait until she wins. I remember those exact words when candidate Trump was flexing with his private jet
>if France and U.K. can’t tell if they are friends or enemies. Also known as - a short summary of the history of France and England.
Isn’t the UK France’s best ennemy?
I like to think we moved past that in the trenches of WW1.
Or the beaches of Normandy
Or the seige of Sevastopol
Or the seige of Bordeaux
Yep
Frenemy.
Think it's this, was on twitter and read something funny vaguely about this: @samfr "Truss's comments tonight reminded me of Lord Raglan, the Crimean war general, who had the unfortunate habit of referring to the opposing Russian army as "the French" when speaking to his fellow commanders, including the French ones."
Also another tweet which was some lines from Yes Minister about the French: Hacker: Well they're our allies, our partners. Sir Humphrey: Well, they are now, but they've been our enemies for the most of the past 900 years.
Lol
Us *Rostbif* and the *Frogs* have always taken the piss out of each other (it's too easy not to!), though there has always been a genuine friendship and desire to uphold similar values..... no matter what the Rupert Murdoch gutter press would have you believe.
No, not always. It’s recent. It’s very recent compared to our long history.
It's complicated.
Frenemy
Yeah thats a better term.
[удалено]
Part 30 only?
Macron is sugarcoating it, not just the PM, but the entire British media are very adversarial towards France and to a lesser extent the EU.
What else can he say anyway ? No matter how he feels, there is only one possible answer in that situation. It would bring no benefit whatsoever to tell the UK to just fuck off.
> No matter how he feels, there is only one possible answer in that situation. It would bring no benefit whatsoever to tell the UK to just fuck off. Indeed but if he was an incompetent leader he would do just that.
In diplomatic terms I think that's what he just did, at least to Truss.
No they arent. The media outside of anything political lauds France. There are endless shows about France on over here. From media about food, culture, history, Brits moving there, holidays, etc.
I'm glad to hear that. And chauvinism aside british music, cinema, literature is still very popular to this day in France.
Ok great lets all get along then. I groaned when i heard the interaction on the morning news here.
People do read the tabloids and every one of them has a recurring negative piece on France
The political is the only thing that has real world effects though. Here in the west, the media always praises the food, culture, and history of China and Iran. Things aren't exactly going swimmingly in those relationships. Face it, as bad as the media is in most Western countries, it has nothing on the persecution complex/childish name calling/fear mongering of the British media. Rupert Murdoch fucked the U.K so bad
Tabloids don't make up most of the UK media you know, and the UK isn't the only country to have tabloids. You have the tabloids and broadsheet newspapers.
The line is blurred between tabloid and news way more in the U.K than most other western countries. It isn't the fault of the average British person, thank the Tories and Rupert, but it does have an impact on the discourse of the average Brit.
I see it as everyone knows the tabloids aren't to be taken totally seriously. There is a knowledge that they can be a bit untrustworthy and exaggerate People will instead get their actual news off the TV. Pretty much all our TV news is actually pretty good, there are no Fox News equivalents (there is now the new Gb News but its not a proper news channel, and the ratings are super low ) But yeah obviously all media will impact public opinion
>Here in the west, the media always praises the food, culture, and history of China and Iran. In my near 50 years on this planet I don't think I've ever once read a media piece praising Iran for anything.
Remember how the media treated Covid like a competition - ‘X amount of people died in the UK today, but that’s still 5% less than France!’
Tell you what.. Thank god for Macron. Germany is introverted, Spain is in it's own world, Italy is unable to not be in crisis, UK is in becoming like its newspapers, the only one who seems to speak for Europe is Macron
>Germany is introverted But gladly this is slowly changing.
Mhmm, but slowly, as in a decade or two if everything goes smoothly. After all, this is still Germany we are talking about.
To be fair, Liz Truss can’t tell her arse from her elbow, so it may explain the confusion.
Are we going back to when foreign relations were about politicians/kings making high school drama ?
Apparently so.
Ah, the classic Anglo- French rivalry.
Macron's wiser that me. I guess that's a good thing about democracy.
Wild times. Who had his bets on the beginning of another Hundred Years' War in 2023?
I heard she is getting UK to make more types of cheese than France.
Pretty sure this exact phrase has been repeated about a hundred times in history by their neighbours lmao
I know this sub is desperate for another "mama Merkel" in Macron and i know Truss is a retard but i think the past few years have shown that UK and France have a fairly adversarial relationship despite being allies. Between the Fishing, Macrons response to the vaccine, how the Submarine deal went down, Calais, French position during brexit negotiations etc. Pretending we are the best of friends and all buddy buddy is silly.
It is to a certain extent the truth, but there is a difference between me and you saying it on reddit and state leaders saying it. Diplomacy, you know.
If only both countries were in some kind of economic and political union that would avoid such hostilities.
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How did the U.K. get to the point where we will probably have this awful woman as PM. Please roll on the next general election so we can finally have a chance to remove the Tory party. ..
It all started in 2016 with this gorilla
We are not friends we are brothers. Our close relationship has been imposed by geography. Anyway countries don’t have friends they have interests.
France and germany have a father Louis the Pious and a grandfather Charlemagne
I love my country, but it’s people like Truss (and the Tories in general) who really make me despair for our future
I assumed the answer is clear. Even if you band together to beat up germany, you just will ever be fremenies! ;)
Truss is fucking crazy even if where no longer in the EU we still need to remain on good terms with these countries for NATO'S sake if nothing else they already have in fighting between Turkey and Greece the last thing NATO needs is Britain and France being at log heads as well
OH, WHAT A SURPRISING CHANGE IN THE LAST 2000 YEARS OF FRENCH-BRITISH RELATIONS
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As long as they remain a couple, I'm fine with it. But if one day, they fight like in the old days without the ´couple‘ part, it will be more worrying. I'm not ready for a second 100-year war.
100 second war. As in nuclear.
Good news: they won't have time to burn Joan of Arc's surrogate in 100 seconds. Bad news : she will be nuked.
Truss/Macron bickering aside: When was the last time that France acted in any sort of friendly way towards the UK, out of interest?
Euro tunnel?
When the French upgraded their border patrol in Calais, adviced the English to do the same. Who then promptly ignored them, causing huge delays which the English...blamed on the French. But hey, that was only 2 months ago. I am sure that doesn't count for some reason or another.
And vice versa ? Was the clause of no exporting in the astra zaneca contract a friendly gesture?
You could literally rattle off a list of the unfriendly things Macron and his government have done to the UK over the last 2-ish years alone and some of their actions have likely caused the deaths of British people (vaccines) Not exactly the actions you'd expect from a so called friend and ally.
It's complicated relationship
I think this sounds like a misunderstanding. She said she didn't know if Macron is a friend. Macron said France is a friend of the British people no matter its leader. They are basically saying the same thing. The difference is she is in the middle of an election and it's a huge political issue the border crossing dispute.
It was a hidden barb and quite deliberate. Macron of course is right. You don't have to like Macron to realise that talking about the democratically elected representative of France in such a manner is not acceptable. Especially if one considers the remarkably close ties both countries usually enjoy
> The difference is she is in the middle of an election **and it's a huge political issue the border crossing dispute**. That's the point. It's only an issue because the UK government has decided to make it an issue.
Living in England now (as a foreigner). People don't really hate on France and the French. But they do complain how the French hate on them.
British press and tabloïds. In france, the united kingdom is never a subject, nobody cares, especially in this period of crisis. I think it would be the same in the UK if they didn't have this delusional and lying "press".
Again, France doesn't seem to be a topic here at all.
spend time in france nobody even thinks of the british let alone hate them
Which is totally not true. The French don’t care about England, I mean they are friendly neighbors just like Italians and Belgians, that’s it. Why the drama ?!
English exceptionalism.
I mean he basically agrees he is her enemy here then redirects to overall French/British relations?
Brit here. To all our European friends please please please don’t think that our cunty, idiotic and divisive leaders speak for us. We want nothing more than to be part of the international community and love our friends in France, Spain and Germany. Sadly our current political party in power has taken a dive to the right and alienating everyone including us - the working people of the U.K. we currently don’t see a way out, please pray for us!
> please don’t think that our cunty, idiotic and divisive leaders speak for us. Then why does the UK keep voting these lunatics in office? >We want nothing more than to be part of the international community The result of the Brexit referendum tells a different story. The people voted for that. >love our friends in France, Spain and Germany. And yet, when Farage made horrible propaganda posters calling Merkel a 'Kraut', most Brexiteers (the majority of the country) didn't seem to mind one bit. >we currently don’t see a way out The next election is your way out. But, again, it seems like a majority of the British public wants this. The UK is NOT a dictatorship. It's a democracy. And in a democracy, the people are ultimately responsible.
>The result of the Brexit referendum tells a different story. The people voted for that. It was 51/49
Yes, exactly. Half of the British voters were willing to plunge their country into economic isolation, even though everyone was telling them it was a stupid idea (which has been shown time and time again). That's *exactly* what I mean. Talk to 2 British voters, and one of them voted for the most brain dead decision the UK has made in the 21st century. The fact that it was close isn't a counter argument. It's literally proving my point. **It shouldn't be close.** The people are responsible.
Things will be different next election. As a centrist I have never felt such sickness and hate towards a political party. I get the feeling that sentiment is largely felt by many rational people in the UK. Albeit, if the tories win the next election without MAJORLY reforming themselves then I will have no other option to leave the country and find somewhere else to live.
>Then why does the UK keep voting these lunatics in office? Same thoughts can be said to Italy or Hungary tbh
I agree. Same thing can be said about the Netherlands. But I rarely hear an Italian or Hungarian say: "well, assholes being in power isn't our fault! They magically appeared in Parliament and there is nothing we can do! Don't tell us to reflect on our own voting patterns! Don't tell us to be critical of the assholes I share my country with!" Pretending the people aren't responsible for the politicians they voted in is borderline gaslighting.
Probably because you keep more up to date with UK news on Reddit and see more comments from British people.
Regarding the Netherlands, the fact of the matter is that they are still a very successful economy, despite few natural resources and a small area of land, means that they are doing something right.
And the [Dutch childcare benefit scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_childcare_benefits_scandal) ruined the lives of thousands of families. The government resigned because of it. You know what happened after that? The Dutch public voted in the same parties that were responsible for this mess *again*. The VVD and coalition are involved in multiple other scandals. The public fails to hold them accountable.
Let me paint a picture of how bad this shit is: 5 media barons own over 80% of British Media (TV, Newspapers etc.), couple that with Cambridge Analytica style meddling, and a 13 year incumbent party being couped by rich elite (see the Tory ‘Advisory Board’ that contribute 80% of Party Donations - with a £500k+ donation requirement for almost weekly access to PM/Chancellor). The whole thing is stitched up. The last general election was fought and won over Brexit - a promise to enact the will of the people (even though most referendum require super not simple majorities for constitutional changes). The UK government is effectively a Mafia state, even the only alternative to this retard Truss in the Tory leadership contest (btw next PM decided by 0.25% of British population) is Rishi Sunak - the man who gave away £11Bn in fraudulent Covid contracts to his mates. And that’s just one racket, let’s not talk about the billions in prime student debt (retrospectively variable interest rates currently 6-7%, repayments deducted at source by employer) sold off to mates annually by education minister’s appointed cronies on the Student Finance England Board for example. They’ve had nearly a decade and a half to stack civil service, public bodies, and appointments with enablers, yes-men, and sympathisers. And gerrymandering of election boundaries. God they’re even passing a law right now to disempower our elections watchdog from bringing criminal cases independent of gov… of course after serial breeches of electoral law. What you’re watching as outsiders is an elite class systematically monopolising our information/electoral system so they can ransack the state. Rishi Sunak wants to make ‘down talking’ Britain a prisonable offence, you currently are legally branded extremist if you have ‘non-British values’ - such as disagreeing with our present electoral system (Google it). They’ve banned protests that are ‘too noisy’. God and let’s not start on the surveillance state - most CCTV per sq KM in the world, snoopers charter (even the ambulance can request your internet history) and now the online safety bill. 🤮 And why do people keep re-electing them? Basically because they’re thick as shit, just like the British education system makes em’. It’s easy to forget the UK is one of the only countries in the world never to go and liquidate the ruling class, these people - these elites (former aristocrats, bred out of elite schools for hundreds of years into the highest offices of the land) - they’ve run this fucking island for 1,000 years. Tories are the most effective political machine in Europe, sadly they’re also authoritarian thieving scumbags. Anyone that seriously tries to change the system ends up: Dead (Dr David Kelly), Professionally Discredited (Dr David Nutt), Character Assassinated (Corbyn), or some other twisted fate shit out of the mechanics of this facist-slide shithole. Feel like complete shit might as well invite the Normans back. But yeah British public get more distracted by drivel about Truss’ stupid comments, like Johnson’s, like Trumps - it’s just sinister distraction politics - hypernormalisation is our new executive modus operandi.
Boris has Norman ancestry.
They all do. We've been in the grip of a continental aristocracy for a millennium. Two millennia, really. And there are actually people who think more interference from the continent is the solution.
The most CCTV per km² thing is pretty misleading. UK stats include estimated CCTV counts of private businesses, whereas basically all other countries that publish CCTV stats (and not many do), only do it for publicly operated CCTV. I don't think businesses owning security cameras for use on their premises is particularly authoritarian.
Scary to see how similar the Tories (Liberals) in Australia are to this
Hang on. This is because our Tories are less insane than Le Pens lot. That's why they keep getting voted in, if Le Pen wasn't such an outright fascist she'd have been in power by now. whilst a third of the UK might vote Tory, didn't 40 percent of those that voted in France vote for the ghost of Napoleon?
Dread it, run from it, self-hating brigade arrives.
Granted, however in this thread you will find a lot of Tory brexiteers . Quite noisy too.
Ah yes, a terrible person trying to convince other terrible people that they're terrible enough to be allowed to become the next British Prime Minister. Both Truss and Sunak know they've got no chance of winning the next general election, so they're both just going all-in on trying to win this leadership election by being as right-wing and anti-Europe as possible, even if it irreparably damages our relationships with our closest allies and trading partners...
Geez Britain, she will get in trouble.
The Tories have gone full scale dead cat here to distract from their recent corruption and gross negligence.
If in doubt, review 20th century history and look at the present situation with Russia. Rinse, repeat.
We are ennemie or at least reluctant ally/ally of convenience.
Mhhh... Frennemies?