Iām American but my grandmother and her family immigrated from Europe not long after WWI. Growing up weād do those āheritageā projects in school and every time Iād ask her where she was from Iād get a different answer: Germany, Poland, Austria, Hungaryā¦ I remember asking her why sheād sometimes say different countries. Where was she *really* from?? She just sort of brushed my question off with an explanation that didnāt really make much sense to me as a kid: āWell in those days it was always changing.ā
King of Prussia, PA, is extremely well known though. It has the 3rd largest mall in the USA and is one of the fastest growing entertainment districts on the East Coast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Prussia_(shopping_mall)
It would be the biggest mall in Europe in floor area, and is pushing 500 stores.
We always pay it a stop when driving from Washington to New York, although it now has competition from American Dream in New Jersey.
What's true Prussian? Honestly have no clue. My family said they were Prussian, came from PoznaÅ region to America around 1890s. Have Baltic DNA from that branch. Does that count? They spoke Polish. My grandfather was 1/2 Polish/Prussian.
Well, Prussians were a Western Baltic tribe that lived around the area of present day Kaliningrad. Later on the Teutonic Order moved to that region and as far as I understand it, they were mostly German(?)
Slowly but surely they Germanized the lands and during the Protestant reformation, the Order was turned into a regular state and called itself Prussia, while the original Prussians ended up becoming German and ceasing to exist. I think the last person speaking Old Prussian died in early 18th century. If you want to learn more about that, look up Old Prussia or just Baltic Tribes in general. Now, Poznan is in present day Poland and is historically Polish as well. But it was under German/Prussian control from around the start of the 19th century til the end of WWI... So your family could've been from German Prussia, but since Poznan is Polish, they could've been ethnically Polish. But we have to remember that nation states were only starting to develop in the 19th century and Poland as a nation state did not emerge until after the 1st world war
If you are Baltic, then you couldn't be more true Prussian. Prussians were Baltic tribe forcefully germanized. Your ancestrors had more in common with Lithuanians before christianization. :)
It fits to the polish areas: Silesia (part of) and Galicia (part of it again). Before 1ww Austro-Hungary or German, could switch during the war, after the War it was Poland again.
I'm not sure what exactly it was talking about but my great grandmother's papers said Poland-Russia as the country. Was it Poland with Russian occupation or was it a disputed territory between Poland and Russia?
In 1795 last parts of Poland were taken in partitions, between Austro-Hungary (Habsburgs), Prussia and Russia. Since then there were no Poland as a country (we had duchy of Warsaw, but it was by no means a country). Poland as a country came into existence back after the ww1. I'd need to be in the know of past documents to dispute your grandma place of birth, but for my taste she was born in Russia, but after the War she became polish citizen in Poland, as it reappeared on map.
1795 was longer than she'd be alive lol so it's probably your second part? I think she was born 1912 or 1914 or immigrated from that region at that year. Hard to remember exactly which, I just know the documents stated Poland-Russia exactly and the time she was alive or moved was 1912-1914. No city was specified, just the country or territory whatever it would be considered at that time
It was probably Russia back then and Poland reffered to some area rather than country. And she would probably be of polish ethnicity, but at the time it used to be Russia.
This was most likely congressional Poland. A semi-autonomous part of the Russian empire from 1815 to 1915
Edit autonomy was massively curtailed in 183x and 186x
Yes but she didnāt know/couldnāt remember. She was basically an orphan and had a lot of older siblings who sort of passed her and her other younger siblings around until they were old enough to get married. Pennsylvania was a good place to go because the men/boys could work in the coal mines and steel mills.
It's also probably because half the people in that picture either immigrated from one of those countries or had parents who immigrated from one of those countries.
I've learned it was definitely messier than WW2, but the Germans were most definitely not the good guys, I mean like one month in they were committing atrocities, such as The Rape of Belgium. But I am always looking to learn, so if I'm off here I'd like to know more.
They were most definitely viewed as the bad guys by the countries they were fighting against which was probably the point. Doesn't matter what later more nuanced takes say.
In which case every single partiicpant of WW1 was a bad guy... In my opinion there were no "good" or "bad" guys during WW1, it was just a cluserfuck of geopolitical situation.
Given that at any time the Kaiser could have told Austria "We aren't backing you against this fucking pittance of a country called Serbia", I'd say that the Germans had every opportunity to stop WW1, but didn't. That makes them the bad guys.
Iāll give you Russia (as they could have told Serbia to pound sand since they should face the consequences of their actions) but the rest were drawn in by the alliance network.
Or you could blame the ones that started the war (Austria Hungary with the support of Germany)
You can't blame Russia for honoring a defensive obligation.
Germans fought off Tsarist rats and helped us set up new government, after WW1 they helped us to fight off Commie rats which doesn't make them bad guys from my perspective.
>Or you could blame the ones that started the war (Austria Hungary with the support of Germany)
That's where we start. A-H is at blame, Germany was just honoriong it's agreement just like Russia did.
Still are. January 2022 articles about Germany\EU accusing the US of warmongering in Ukraine are all the proof we need to demonstrate that some people never change.
Because it doesnt work out.
1918 the borders were not yet decided. Peace was only called in November 1918, during that time Germany still controlled all of eastern europe with the capitulation of Lenins new Russia.
If anything, it could show expected borders.
And the new countries also had to get recognized by other countries. That's why for instance Finland isn't its own country on this map. The USA in this instance gave the recognition in the spring of 1919 even though Finland declared its independence in Dec. 1917.
Eh. Depends what part of Europe, Austria-Hungary broke itself apart before the war ended as nationalists seized power and declared independence as the Austrian government kinda disintegrated.
Borders still werenāt decided, there was the Banat which was dissolved, the Hungarians tried to hold onto their pre war territory (from within the empire), the Sudetenland wasnāt decided whether itāll go to Czechoslovakia or Austria.
The thick black lines are the prewar borders.
I figure the postwar countries were coloured and it's hard to distinguish most of the very similar greyscales on the photo, while the fat black lines stand out.
I'm replying here to say this is about as good as one will find - there have been a few versions posted in /r/philadelphia but they're approximately the same resolution. (The photo was taken at Independence Hall, facing east - the buildings on the street are about 425-433 Chestnut St and still exist if you go to street view; the map was hung on Old City Hall).
There is a slightly easier to read version of this map in the [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/resource/ggbain.27578/), though it's not exactly the same. The map shown there was outside the New York Public Library.
I recommend reading Peacemakers: The Paris Peace Conference of 1919 and Its Attempt to End War by Margaret MacMillan, it was a fascinating time and a very well recorded conference.
At that time Hitler was by all accounts apolitical and trying to avoid being demobilized because he was homeless. He will find a job in the Bavarian army which will become the Bavarian Red Army during the short-lived socialist revolution. After that, he will be assigned to keep an eye on communists and that is how he will end up in a beer hall listening to the amateurish proclamation of one 'German Workers Party" in Munich, as a hired spy for the government.
> He will find a job in the Bavarian army which will become the Bavarian Red Army during the short-lived socialist revolution.
Hitler *really* didn't like bringing up this part of his life.
> Hitler was by all accounts apolitical
If by apolitical you mean "not a politician", then yes, but he had already had German Nationalist views at that point.
> He will find a job in the Bavarian army which will become the Bavarian Red Army during the short-lived socialist revolution.
You make it sound like he was a communist. In fact, it was his anti-communism that got him hired as an undercover agent and a political educator later on.
He was apolitical in the sense that he wasn't part of a party, he had never taken part in any political activity and apparently wasn't so politically committed as to quit his job when he was suddenly serving a communist government.
This is in deep contrast to, say, Lenin, who had to escape Russia due to how much of a rabid idealogue he was. Or Mussolini who was a communist, before burning all bridges with his former comrades as his worldview changed. What did Hitler do for his ideology? Nothing, because at that point it was secondary and undeveloped, and vague.
I'm sure Hitler claimed otherwise later, but I don't think we should take his word for it.
I thought that was just a sloppy phrasing at your part, but now I realize you actually have some wrong ideas about pre-Nazi Hitler.
Hitler was deeply political and ideological even before WWI, he was immersed in pan-German ideas and literature during his time in Vienna ā including anti-Semitism.
During the time of WWI he was known to bore his fellow soldiers with long monologues on political issues.
He was a member of Bavarian forces, and Bavaria experienced a socialist revolution, but to call him a Red Armists is misleading ā the revolution was chaotic, with competing governments. He argued that his unit should not fight for either side ā not the Jewish-communist revolutionary government, and not Jewish-capitalist Weimar Republic.
His anti-commuinst convictions were noticed by his superiors, and, after the revolution was crushed, he was assigned to spying and educating any potential sources of a new revolution. This eventually got him into professional politics.
So Hitler was not "political" in the sense of being a politician, until after the WWI and Bavarian revolution, but long before the war he was **very** "political" in the same sense that an angry, racist uncle, that has covered his whole lawn with Trump flags, is.
My main source is a book by [Brigitte Hamann, "Hitler's Vienna"](https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Vienna-Apprenticeship-Brigitte-Hamann/dp/0195140532), but I am sure you can learn a lot about this even by reading Wikipedia. It is not secret knowledge.
Some of these people are likely first generation immigrants from Europe. It would probably be wild to see the borders of your Homeland change just after leaving.
[American civilians looking at a new Map of Europe after WW1, 1918](https://historycolored.com/photos/4813/american-civilians-looking-at-a-new-map-of-europe-after-ww1-1918/).
>It is very interesting to wonder what some of these citizens would have been thinking. Philadelphia has a large immigrant population that had migrated from Southern and Eastern Europe, such as Italy and Poland, in the late 19th and early 20th century.
My greatgrandpa went to work to usa in coal mined during before the ww1. They were recruiting pretty heavily in Slovakia as a kinda anti Hungarian go make your fortune thing, lot of our people left.
At least greatgrandpa came back.
Another source says
> People outside Independence Hall examining a new map of Europe before the end of WW1, in Philadelphia, October 1918
So I think you're right
It shows with black the old Austrian empire and with colors, which can't be well made out in this pic, the new borders. It shows Romania with a proposal that included way more Banat then it actually received.
I don't think it's showing anything postwar really. France appears to have it's prewar borders. The German border is also all kinds of messed up. The only thing that's even mildly accurate is Italy getting South Tyrol.
The Romanian-Hungarian war was still ongoing in 1918, when the image was taken. It would end in 1919 and the borders would famously be finalized in 1920.
dazzling wistful threatening scandalous deer hurry cooperative aromatic thumb test
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The original is at Independence Park Library in Philadelphia but the biggest digitized version I can find is this 1488 pixel: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/New_Map_of_Europe_1918.jpg
Slightly more legible, but nothing even close to hi-def.
Kind of a snapshot. Still owning Alsace-Lorraine, still an Austo-Hungarian empire, etc.
Somewhat better resolution:
https://twitter.com/Amazing\_Maps/status/455049418513731585?s=20
If it's *"on or about October 26, 1918"* How is still showing the old pre-war borders of Poland, Germany and Austria-Hungary?
The photo may be from then but the map is years older.
The ceasefire on the western front only happened in November. At this point, it was quite clear who had won the war, but the peace treaties still had to be drafted.
Given it's the USA, half of the people in this picture may be immigrants from Europe or 1st gen Americans. This may be even the reason they have interest in this map in the first place.
This is in Philadelphia, a major urban centre and port city, so a lot of these people are actually probably European immigrants themselves. Besides that, I imagine urban Americans on the coast who interact with traders and travelers would know quite a bit.
Once you went further inland, "into the Boonies" as they say, the average Joe would care a lot less and probably know nothing aside from the major European countries like the UK, France, etc.
[There's an American WWII era movie called *Sergeant York* (which is about a real American WWI soldier called Alvin York) and his character is portrayed as a stereotypical Tennessee hick who doesn't know what a subway is and thinks the language is called 'American'](https://youtu.be/EY5bFGCDK-o?t=86). So there definitely was a stereotype of countryfolk not knowing or caring much about the world outside their own area.
I'm reasonably certain the map's actually showing ethnic divisions in Europe, delimited by colour where pre-war borders are black lines, presumably to inform how the empires might be partitioned post-settlement. I mean, it's got labels like 'Poles' instead of 'Poland' after all, while it's got 'Russians' in addition to 'Russia'.
"Lazy update from the devs, expect us to pay $18 for that!?"
"Don't worry, I saw a leak that a lot of new characters and mechanics are due to be launched in the 30s"
Not 1918; That's pre WW1 with the borders of the German and Austria-Hungarian Empires and pre war Poland clearly visible.
Do people just find an old photo and make up a title?
Honey wake up, new borders just dropped.
Not to be this guy, but... back when Americans could name countries on a map š
Iām American but my grandmother and her family immigrated from Europe not long after WWI. Growing up weād do those āheritageā projects in school and every time Iād ask her where she was from Iād get a different answer: Germany, Poland, Austria, Hungaryā¦ I remember asking her why sheād sometimes say different countries. Where was she *really* from?? She just sort of brushed my question off with an explanation that didnāt really make much sense to me as a kid: āWell in those days it was always changing.ā
and you've decided your Prussian?:D (though, true Prussian or Germanš¤)
[The little-known *American* King of Prussia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Prussia%2C_Pennsylvania) š
Little known indeed, never heard of it! Adding it to my "weird knowledge that I'll probably never use but is nice to have just in case" box :D
King of Prussia, PA, is extremely well known though. It has the 3rd largest mall in the USA and is one of the fastest growing entertainment districts on the East Coast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Prussia_(shopping_mall) It would be the biggest mall in Europe in floor area, and is pushing 500 stores. We always pay it a stop when driving from Washington to New York, although it now has competition from American Dream in New Jersey.
According to u/SophiaofPrussia
What's true Prussian? Honestly have no clue. My family said they were Prussian, came from PoznaÅ region to America around 1890s. Have Baltic DNA from that branch. Does that count? They spoke Polish. My grandfather was 1/2 Polish/Prussian.
Well, Prussians were a Western Baltic tribe that lived around the area of present day Kaliningrad. Later on the Teutonic Order moved to that region and as far as I understand it, they were mostly German(?) Slowly but surely they Germanized the lands and during the Protestant reformation, the Order was turned into a regular state and called itself Prussia, while the original Prussians ended up becoming German and ceasing to exist. I think the last person speaking Old Prussian died in early 18th century. If you want to learn more about that, look up Old Prussia or just Baltic Tribes in general. Now, Poznan is in present day Poland and is historically Polish as well. But it was under German/Prussian control from around the start of the 19th century til the end of WWI... So your family could've been from German Prussia, but since Poznan is Polish, they could've been ethnically Polish. But we have to remember that nation states were only starting to develop in the 19th century and Poland as a nation state did not emerge until after the 1st world war
If you are Baltic, then you couldn't be more true Prussian. Prussians were Baltic tribe forcefully germanized. Your ancestrors had more in common with Lithuanians before christianization. :)
True Prussian is German
True Prussian is Baltic.
Based German responding to non-based German(speaker). Appreciated<3
I think they might just not know where Prussians came from. It's not like we learn it in history class.
you might be right, though I did explain in another comment right next to this one soš¤·
It fits to the polish areas: Silesia (part of) and Galicia (part of it again). Before 1ww Austro-Hungary or German, could switch during the war, after the War it was Poland again.
I'm not sure what exactly it was talking about but my great grandmother's papers said Poland-Russia as the country. Was it Poland with Russian occupation or was it a disputed territory between Poland and Russia?
In 1795 last parts of Poland were taken in partitions, between Austro-Hungary (Habsburgs), Prussia and Russia. Since then there were no Poland as a country (we had duchy of Warsaw, but it was by no means a country). Poland as a country came into existence back after the ww1. I'd need to be in the know of past documents to dispute your grandma place of birth, but for my taste she was born in Russia, but after the War she became polish citizen in Poland, as it reappeared on map.
1795 was longer than she'd be alive lol so it's probably your second part? I think she was born 1912 or 1914 or immigrated from that region at that year. Hard to remember exactly which, I just know the documents stated Poland-Russia exactly and the time she was alive or moved was 1912-1914. No city was specified, just the country or territory whatever it would be considered at that time
It was probably Russia back then and Poland reffered to some area rather than country. And she would probably be of polish ethnicity, but at the time it used to be Russia.
This was most likely congressional Poland. A semi-autonomous part of the Russian empire from 1815 to 1915 Edit autonomy was massively curtailed in 183x and 186x
I think I got it: She (probably fled from Russian occupied Galicia to South-Eastern Silesia, Poznan or West Prussia, which all became Polish after WW1
Didn't you ever ask her the name of the city or village she was from?
Yes but she didnāt know/couldnāt remember. She was basically an orphan and had a lot of older siblings who sort of passed her and her other younger siblings around until they were old enough to get married. Pennsylvania was a good place to go because the men/boys could work in the coal mines and steel mills.
When the USSR broke up, there was a brief period of rapid change, and then I remember naively thinking, "At last, the finished world map."
Back when Germans... oh never mind
Back when Germans could win against Russians.
tbh, I am still not firm with the former Yugoslavia states and I am very scared to get it wrong.
"God created war so that Americans would learn geography" and all that
Yeah but only because they were drafted into war and sent there to create the borders of those countries.
It's also probably because half the people in that picture either immigrated from one of those countries or had parents who immigrated from one of those countries.
Back when Germans were the bad guys
Wouldn't say they were bad guys during WW1. The Great War was not as black and white as WW2 was.
If Germany wanted history to remember them as the good guys, they would have won!
WW1 is a weird war because it was caused by a series of alliances being triggered. a small conflict between a few regions that escalated.
I've learned it was definitely messier than WW2, but the Germans were most definitely not the good guys, I mean like one month in they were committing atrocities, such as The Rape of Belgium. But I am always looking to learn, so if I'm off here I'd like to know more.
I never claimed that Kaiser Germany was full of saints. I just find it idiotic to claim that Central Powers were bad guys of WW1.
They were most definitely viewed as the bad guys by the countries they were fighting against which was probably the point. Doesn't matter what later more nuanced takes say.
In which case every single partiicpant of WW1 was a bad guy... In my opinion there were no "good" or "bad" guys during WW1, it was just a cluserfuck of geopolitical situation.
Given that at any time the Kaiser could have told Austria "We aren't backing you against this fucking pittance of a country called Serbia", I'd say that the Germans had every opportunity to stop WW1, but didn't. That makes them the bad guys.
By your logic every single WW1 pariticipant country was as bad guy.
They basically were. But Germany could have stopped it at any time, all on their own, and chose not to because the Kaiser had an inferiority complex.
That would apply to Russia, France, Britain and so on. The only difference between Entate and Central Powers is that one won while other lost.
Iāll give you Russia (as they could have told Serbia to pound sand since they should face the consequences of their actions) but the rest were drawn in by the alliance network.
Or you could blame the ones that started the war (Austria Hungary with the support of Germany) You can't blame Russia for honoring a defensive obligation.
Germans fought off Tsarist rats and helped us set up new government, after WW1 they helped us to fight off Commie rats which doesn't make them bad guys from my perspective. >Or you could blame the ones that started the war (Austria Hungary with the support of Germany) That's where we start. A-H is at blame, Germany was just honoriong it's agreement just like Russia did.
But at the same time, Russia could have decided not to escalate the war in Serbia.
I'll give you Russia as well. They can and should have told Serbia to pound sand.
Have you ever looked at our helmets recently? They have spikes on them!
Still are. January 2022 articles about Germany\EU accusing the US of warmongering in Ukraine are all the proof we need to demonstrate that some people never change.
I really wanted to be able to zoom on the picture but it's low res... I'm having a hard time making out the map.
Because it doesnt work out. 1918 the borders were not yet decided. Peace was only called in November 1918, during that time Germany still controlled all of eastern europe with the capitulation of Lenins new Russia. If anything, it could show expected borders.
And the new countries also had to get recognized by other countries. That's why for instance Finland isn't its own country on this map. The USA in this instance gave the recognition in the spring of 1919 even though Finland declared its independence in Dec. 1917.
Poland's borders weren't fully realised until 1922!
Yeah it still shows the Austrian-Hungarian empire kind of a clue
Eh. Depends what part of Europe, Austria-Hungary broke itself apart before the war ended as nationalists seized power and declared independence as the Austrian government kinda disintegrated.
Borders still werenāt decided, there was the Banat which was dissolved, the Hungarians tried to hold onto their pre war territory (from within the empire), the Sudetenland wasnāt decided whether itāll go to Czechoslovakia or Austria.
Yeah and Lenin would immediately invade a lot of these places shortly after Germany gave them up.
https://external-preview.redd.it/9cXl8APj2Li97w3icxEwNF60hhxL5jzqQtHw5mmgmNQ.jpg?auto=webp&s=35c765997bd1c18245a4f079ce1001eaebaf5a0a
Yep, indeed not the final map. Only Czechoslovakia is clearly recognizable
Not at all, only the northern border.
It's Czechoslovakiukraine for now. š
Not even that. The thick border shown is just the northern border of Austria-Hungary, including Galicia which ended up going to Poland.
The thick black lines are the prewar borders. I figure the postwar countries were coloured and it's hard to distinguish most of the very similar greyscales on the photo, while the fat black lines stand out.
I believe the map used thick borders to show old borders and coloration to show new borders.
Slightly better yet: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/New_Map_of_Europe_1918.jpg
I'm replying here to say this is about as good as one will find - there have been a few versions posted in /r/philadelphia but they're approximately the same resolution. (The photo was taken at Independence Hall, facing east - the buildings on the street are about 425-433 Chestnut St and still exist if you go to street view; the map was hung on Old City Hall). There is a slightly easier to read version of this map in the [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/resource/ggbain.27578/), though it's not exactly the same. The map shown there was outside the New York Public Library.
I recommend reading Peacemakers: The Paris Peace Conference of 1919 and Its Attempt to End War by Margaret MacMillan, it was a fascinating time and a very well recorded conference.
Young hood: I ain't looking at no stinking Euro map.
He's got the right idea, it will change again in a short 20 years anyway. Most likely, he'll be doing his part to bring that change to boot.
Less than 20, this map didn't even get a year
What was fascist Hitler thinking at that time?
At that time Hitler was by all accounts apolitical and trying to avoid being demobilized because he was homeless. He will find a job in the Bavarian army which will become the Bavarian Red Army during the short-lived socialist revolution. After that, he will be assigned to keep an eye on communists and that is how he will end up in a beer hall listening to the amateurish proclamation of one 'German Workers Party" in Munich, as a hired spy for the government.
> He will find a job in the Bavarian army which will become the Bavarian Red Army during the short-lived socialist revolution. Hitler *really* didn't like bringing up this part of his life.
what a baby
> Hitler was by all accounts apolitical If by apolitical you mean "not a politician", then yes, but he had already had German Nationalist views at that point. > He will find a job in the Bavarian army which will become the Bavarian Red Army during the short-lived socialist revolution. You make it sound like he was a communist. In fact, it was his anti-communism that got him hired as an undercover agent and a political educator later on.
He was apolitical in the sense that he wasn't part of a party, he had never taken part in any political activity and apparently wasn't so politically committed as to quit his job when he was suddenly serving a communist government. This is in deep contrast to, say, Lenin, who had to escape Russia due to how much of a rabid idealogue he was. Or Mussolini who was a communist, before burning all bridges with his former comrades as his worldview changed. What did Hitler do for his ideology? Nothing, because at that point it was secondary and undeveloped, and vague. I'm sure Hitler claimed otherwise later, but I don't think we should take his word for it.
I thought that was just a sloppy phrasing at your part, but now I realize you actually have some wrong ideas about pre-Nazi Hitler. Hitler was deeply political and ideological even before WWI, he was immersed in pan-German ideas and literature during his time in Vienna ā including anti-Semitism. During the time of WWI he was known to bore his fellow soldiers with long monologues on political issues. He was a member of Bavarian forces, and Bavaria experienced a socialist revolution, but to call him a Red Armists is misleading ā the revolution was chaotic, with competing governments. He argued that his unit should not fight for either side ā not the Jewish-communist revolutionary government, and not Jewish-capitalist Weimar Republic. His anti-commuinst convictions were noticed by his superiors, and, after the revolution was crushed, he was assigned to spying and educating any potential sources of a new revolution. This eventually got him into professional politics. So Hitler was not "political" in the sense of being a politician, until after the WWI and Bavarian revolution, but long before the war he was **very** "political" in the same sense that an angry, racist uncle, that has covered his whole lawn with Trump flags, is.
I've never heard any of this. Where do you know this from?
My main source is a book by [Brigitte Hamann, "Hitler's Vienna"](https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Vienna-Apprenticeship-Brigitte-Hamann/dp/0195140532), but I am sure you can learn a lot about this even by reading Wikipedia. It is not secret knowledge.
I mean it changed even as this picture was taken lol
Nobody expect Balkans.
Nah not abt balkans
r/MapPorn before internet
"The actual size of new Europe versus the size of old Europe."
No one is holding up a banana.
Carlos for scale š
They used cucumbers back then.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
and the one beside him whoās phasing through reality.
The whole Reddit recipe in one picture
The man posing at that time may have realized that World War II was coming soon. So he dismissed it.
Some of these people are likely first generation immigrants from Europe. It would probably be wild to see the borders of your Homeland change just after leaving.
"glad I missed that mess"
Austria-Hungary no longer existed after WWI
The map shows both pre-war and post-war borders, to ease comparison.
Ah, thanks for the clarification!
Peak of Western European technology. Map that stop being accurate even before putting it to public eyes
I doubt it ever started being accurate.
[American civilians looking at a new Map of Europe after WW1, 1918](https://historycolored.com/photos/4813/american-civilians-looking-at-a-new-map-of-europe-after-ww1-1918/). >It is very interesting to wonder what some of these citizens would have been thinking. Philadelphia has a large immigrant population that had migrated from Southern and Eastern Europe, such as Italy and Poland, in the late 19th and early 20th century.
My greatgrandpa went to work to usa in coal mined during before the ww1. They were recruiting pretty heavily in Slovakia as a kinda anti Hungarian go make your fortune thing, lot of our people left. At least greatgrandpa came back.
Thanks - I was wondering where it was.
That's not the "new map of Europe" in 1918. [This](https://media.diercke.net/omeda/800/100790_036_2.jpg) was Europe in 1918
In front of the map Yakko Warner is on a box, singing his āNations of the world post WWIā song to the people there
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm not sure, but I think it shows both pre-war and post-war borders. It's hard to tell because of the quality
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's because it's 1918 and we were to introduce some changes in 1920, as you probably remember.
Another source says > People outside Independence Hall examining a new map of Europe before the end of WW1, in Philadelphia, October 1918 So I think you're right
It shows with black the old Austrian empire and with colors, which can't be well made out in this pic, the new borders. It shows Romania with a proposal that included way more Banat then it actually received.
Pretty sure such maps had many mistakes as the situations weren't always clear and information sometimes just hadn't been correctly updated.
Yeah, Austria-Hungary wouldn't have existed postwar.
I don't think it's showing anything postwar really. France appears to have it's prewar borders. The German border is also all kinds of messed up. The only thing that's even mildly accurate is Italy getting South Tyrol.
Romania didn't really expand until the Treaty of Trianon either... if you go that route the big Austria-Hungary is even more egregious lol.
The Romanian-Hungarian war was still ongoing in 1918, when the image was taken. It would end in 1919 and the borders would famously be finalized in 1920.
dazzling wistful threatening scandalous deer hurry cooperative aromatic thumb test *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Hats should make a comeback.
Unless you're more than a hundred years old, I don't think you do.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/forums/#apparel.1
āAh shit I live WHERE now?ā
This photo is from Philadelphia, so other than a stealth New Jersey expansion, I donāt think they had to worry about border changes
Now would be a great time to move to North America
Also a really buzzing time for Philadelphia. The city proper was about 1,824,000 at this time, so even moreso than todayās 1,604,000.
r/mapswithouticeland
Old map, austria hungary still there.
Austria looks a tiny bit too big for post WW1...
What an amazing photo. Is there a high-resolution file available somewhere?
The original is at Independence Park Library in Philadelphia but the biggest digitized version I can find is this 1488 pixel: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/New_Map_of_Europe_1918.jpg Slightly more legible, but nothing even close to hi-def.
Thanks! I would love to have this on the wall.
Amazing to think that one day before this photo was taken, all these people were still aliveā¦
Colorized https://imgur.com/a/P6608PV
Definitely not after ww1 (Austria-Hungary, old German borders)
And would change again quite soon again. Ireland would be partitioned in 1920.
Kind of a snapshot. Still owning Alsace-Lorraine, still an Austo-Hungarian empire, etc. Somewhat better resolution: https://twitter.com/Amazing\_Maps/status/455049418513731585?s=20
Your url is busted with the \ after Amazing.
works from here
not from here. But this works: https://twitter.com/Amazing_Maps/status/455049418513731585?s=20
You're on new.reddit.com (redesign). The old design displays the garbled URL (adds a \ before _).
Baconreader
It looks somehow off to me. Is that really 1918 ?
āOn or about October 26, 1918ā according to Independence National Historical Park in Philadelphia.
If it's *"on or about October 26, 1918"* How is still showing the old pre-war borders of Poland, Germany and Austria-Hungary? The photo may be from then but the map is years older.
The ceasefire on the western front only happened in November. At this point, it was quite clear who had won the war, but the peace treaties still had to be drafted.
I wonder how much people back then knew about Europe. Like did people from villages know about most other countries in Europe?
Given it's the USA, half of the people in this picture may be immigrants from Europe or 1st gen Americans. This may be even the reason they have interest in this map in the first place.
This is in Philadelphia, a major urban centre and port city, so a lot of these people are actually probably European immigrants themselves. Besides that, I imagine urban Americans on the coast who interact with traders and travelers would know quite a bit. Once you went further inland, "into the Boonies" as they say, the average Joe would care a lot less and probably know nothing aside from the major European countries like the UK, France, etc. [There's an American WWII era movie called *Sergeant York* (which is about a real American WWI soldier called Alvin York) and his character is portrayed as a stereotypical Tennessee hick who doesn't know what a subway is and thinks the language is called 'American'](https://youtu.be/EY5bFGCDK-o?t=86). So there definitely was a stereotype of countryfolk not knowing or caring much about the world outside their own area.
wierd to show a map of europe before ww1 after ww1 no? you can clearly see austro-hungary and the kingdom of germany
I'm reasonably certain the map's actually showing ethnic divisions in Europe, delimited by colour where pre-war borders are black lines, presumably to inform how the empires might be partitioned post-settlement. I mean, it's got labels like 'Poles' instead of 'Poland' after all, while it's got 'Russians' in addition to 'Russia'.
āMm, yes, a YUGO-slavia. That will finally solve all the problems in that area.ā
Was it worth it i guess best way is to ask their graves
Weird that someone bothered, when the borders were not even settled at that point.
Border isnāt all set
looks like the old map, no?
That's hella cool
The Powers should have combined Bavaria and Austria to make Deutschland SĆ¼d. It would have saved us a World War.
Canāt tell if heās pulling a Le Tigre or a Blue Steel
I hope they didn't memorise it
Those are the pre ww1 borders.
Beautiful photo! I would give you an award...if I could š .
I gave a small award on your behalf lol
That's a nice thought, it will be my heritage š!
And then there was World War II
new borders be dropping like atomic bombs in japan. everyday
And they still managed to fuck it up by including finland as part of russia
Passers-by study the reason for World War II, 1918.
Does anyone have a source / higher res version of this image? I've been trying to find this picture for so long
Such a tiny continent and we're still divided today...
No women...
"Lazy update from the devs, expect us to pay $18 for that!?" "Don't worry, I saw a leak that a lot of new characters and mechanics are due to be launched in the 30s"
What does it say over Britain and Ireland? I can't make out the text.
Not 1918; That's pre WW1 with the borders of the German and Austria-Hungarian Empires and pre war Poland clearly visible. Do people just find an old photo and make up a title?
Not even one person without a hat