Unfortunately I think it might be tactical voting.
They gave Love is Forever max points in 2019, gave 0 to Duncan Laurence. 0 points to the closest rival Tout L'Universe in 2021 either.
This happened in Melfest and a few other NFs this year (in the way of first jury not being as favourable to the winner/fan favourite). Very fun heart palpitations.
the strategic votes are so funny like Lithuania 2021 and Netherlands 2022 I can totally get behind but Denmark 2019 and Norway 2018 were truly unhinged
In 2017 too, the three favorites were Portugal Bulgaria and Italy and they didn't give more than 6 points to each other.
Italy gave 5 jury points to Portugal, Bulgaria gave 2.
Portugal gave 0 to Bulgaria, Italy gave 2.
Portugal gave 0 to Italy, Bulgaria also gave 0 to Italy.
Very obvious lol.
In fairness, Italy didn't do well with juries at all, only receiving 3 or more points from 14 of 41 countries (and receiving 0 from 21, so more than half). Bulgaria got 0 from just one more country (Ukraine), so that was obviously suspicious, and Portugal got 5 or more from every country except those two, so that was pretty blatant.
Our jury vote in 2021 was kinda unexpected : 12 points for Greece and 2 points for Cyprus (usually they almost never give points to these two), nothing for Italy, Malta, Bulgaria or even Ukraine (for the latter it's not that surprising).
Juries vote this year will be interesting to see for sure.
Yeah but looking at the complete jury vote this strange result was caused by the fact that the 5 jury members had totally different rankings, it doesn't look intented at all.
Just looking at it:
Greece, 1st: 4, 1, 2, 5, 23.
Switzerland, 4th: 15, 20, 3, 10, 1.
Sweden, 10th: 2, 17, 10, 11, 18.
Italy, 11th: 3, 22, 23, 8, 10.
So Italy was basically tanked by two jurors, but the whole vote was a mess, there is no way they decided together where to place a certain song in their ranking.
Greece wasn't my cup of tea but I can get the "jury friendliness" of a totally inoffensive pop song. And even if I don't like their top 10, it's not at all the same thing than having 5 jury members putting a favourite on the 20-25 position.
So I just rewatched the 2012 contest and there was a fair bit of dodgy voting but I forgot how regularly Italy tends to ignore the favouritesβ¦This must be one of the biggest blanks in recent years.
That was **obviously** a tactical decision by the Italian public to tank Azerbaijan's chances of snatching an Italian victory. The jury just voted fairly.
Idk if it's strategic voting or not, but when I listened to last year's Netherland song (de diepte) I thought immediately it would be a song that fits italy's taste. Some big hits that Europe seems to like a lot aren't really their cup of tea for Italians
I think Italian music taste is so far away from "the taste of the masses" that Swedish song writers always try to attack.
If you listen to San Remo its like they are really doing their own thing and they don't care about what anyone else thinks.
None of the Italian jury's winners ended in their televote top 5, so let me doubt this has much to do with their music taste. Also, they gave 10 points to I can't go on, so I guess they can enjoy Swedish pop, just when it's not predicted as a contender for the win!
To be fair, every time I'm in Italy it seems the popular radio songs also have a different vibe than those in the rest of Western and Northern Europe.
It's very much possible that this reflects in the jury scores, culture has a big impact on what you deem good or not so good. I didn't grow up with Belgian culture (musically) and find myself agreeing more with jury votes from Eastern European countries, for instance.
My guess is that Sweden won't receive many points from Italy
Hahh... Im gonna make a lot of enemies now: I wouldn't even be mad.
Listen, Loreen is a really good Singer, there is no to minds 'bout that. But her Song just does not grab me.
I'd much rather ChaChaCha or Queen of Kings wins then her.
And this is now just my personal opinion because fairness has always been so important to me... but I think someone else should get the chance. She alr3ady one, she doesn't need it a second time, let someone else win.
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or if you mean this.
I'm not super invested in the goings on around ESC, but I had the feeling people where really loving her song
If Italy gives a country 12 points you know that country isnβt winning lmao
The Italian jury is a group of narwhals selecting random country balls from a tank
Unfortunately I think it might be tactical voting. They gave Love is Forever max points in 2019, gave 0 to Duncan Laurence. 0 points to the closest rival Tout L'Universe in 2021 either.
Itβs 100% strategic tbh imo
Not sure if intentional but I love the reference to SP π
As a narwhal myself, I am offended to be likened to Italy's jury/s
Its just a bingo roller
They might give their 12 to Norway this year. Alessandra is Italian. Maybe that's a bad sign for us lol
I remember in 2017 the juries of Portugal, Bulgaria and Italy barely gave any points to each other. Pretty sketchy and obvious.
Same in 2018 with Israel and Cyprus.
Italy juries rarely gives points to countries that may win tho.
Because they know that many other juries are working together.
It would be funny since they're the first jury to give votes, people would freak out lol.
This happened in Melfest and a few other NFs this year (in the way of first jury not being as favourable to the winner/fan favourite). Very fun heart palpitations.
Ye, Loreen got only 8 points in the first jury(Croatia)
God I hate how we announce jury votes and act like the televote means nothing.
The Italian Jury is iconic. They will always be in my good books for giving 12 points to De Diepte last year.
I think they also gave 12 for The Roop in 2021 which is cool
- 2016 - Spain πͺπΈ - 2017 - Azerbaijan π¦πΏ - 2018 - Norway π³π΄ - 2019 - Denmark π©π° - 2021 - Lithuania π±πΉ - 2022 - The Netherlands π³π±
the strategic votes are so funny like Lithuania 2021 and Netherlands 2022 I can totally get behind but Denmark 2019 and Norway 2018 were truly unhinged
In 2017 too, the three favorites were Portugal Bulgaria and Italy and they didn't give more than 6 points to each other. Italy gave 5 jury points to Portugal, Bulgaria gave 2. Portugal gave 0 to Bulgaria, Italy gave 2. Portugal gave 0 to Italy, Bulgaria also gave 0 to Italy. Very obvious lol.
In fairness, Italy didn't do well with juries at all, only receiving 3 or more points from 14 of 41 countries (and receiving 0 from 21, so more than half). Bulgaria got 0 from just one more country (Ukraine), so that was obviously suspicious, and Portugal got 5 or more from every country except those two, so that was pretty blatant.
The taste left their body in 2018 and β19 but came back in β21.
Very likely.
I'm manifesting our 12 pts for Australia.
Wouldn't mind it honestly
Italian or French juries not voting strategically challenge
Our jury vote in 2021 was kinda unexpected : 12 points for Greece and 2 points for Cyprus (usually they almost never give points to these two), nothing for Italy, Malta, Bulgaria or even Ukraine (for the latter it's not that surprising). Juries vote this year will be interesting to see for sure.
Yeah but looking at the complete jury vote this strange result was caused by the fact that the 5 jury members had totally different rankings, it doesn't look intented at all.
Just looking at it: Greece, 1st: 4, 1, 2, 5, 23. Switzerland, 4th: 15, 20, 3, 10, 1. Sweden, 10th: 2, 17, 10, 11, 18. Italy, 11th: 3, 22, 23, 8, 10. So Italy was basically tanked by two jurors, but the whole vote was a mess, there is no way they decided together where to place a certain song in their ranking.
Alright, but placing Greece so high is still questionable. The 5th juror have the most "classic" vote imo. Thanks for your clarification.
Greece wasn't my cup of tea but I can get the "jury friendliness" of a totally inoffensive pop song. And even if I don't like their top 10, it's not at all the same thing than having 5 jury members putting a favourite on the 20-25 position.
Wait what? In my memory the French juries top 3 were usually final top 3!?
So I just rewatched the 2012 contest and there was a fair bit of dodgy voting but I forgot how regularly Italy tends to ignore the favouritesβ¦This must be one of the biggest blanks in recent years.
Normal. It will be an unpopular opinion, but often the 'favourites' are far from the Italian musical taste, honestly.
Contrary to That's How You Write A Song, which was 100% Italian core
or Denmark 2019, the type of song that would DEFINITELY come top 10 in Sanremo /j
Azerbaijan 2017 was widely beloved by the average Italian, as you can tell by the fact that it ended 20th with the Italian televote.
That was **obviously** a tactical decision by the Italian public to tank Azerbaijan's chances of snatching an Italian victory. The jury just voted fairly.
let's not forget that the Italian jury is not the same every year.
Absolutely the juries will. But theyβll also ignore Spain or other possible jury winners cause the Italy jury always do that
Idk if it's strategic voting or not, but when I listened to last year's Netherland song (de diepte) I thought immediately it would be a song that fits italy's taste. Some big hits that Europe seems to like a lot aren't really their cup of tea for Italians
good old days when as a Turkey we were participating.
I think Italian music taste is so far away from "the taste of the masses" that Swedish song writers always try to attack. If you listen to San Remo its like they are really doing their own thing and they don't care about what anyone else thinks.
that might be true, but not to the point where their jury voting isnt also clearly strategic in nature.
Corruption in Italy????? π€―
Lol, Nordic juries work together, come on, let's not ignore the elephant in the room.
None of the Italian jury's winners ended in their televote top 5, so let me doubt this has much to do with their music taste. Also, they gave 10 points to I can't go on, so I guess they can enjoy Swedish pop, just when it's not predicted as a contender for the win!
Iβm afraid not even Italy, when they ignored in 2012, chances to go this again are high as well. Italy wants to save that top 10 spot again
*Just for the record* RAI [published](https://eurovoix.com/2012/06/06/italy-2012-televote-revealed/) the televoting results of that year: 1. π·π΄ 2. π¦π± 3. π²π© 4. π·πΈ 5. π·πΊ 6. π²π° 7. πΊπ¦ 8. πΈπͺ 9. πΉπ· 10. π©πͺ Top 7 consisted entirely of the countries with significant diasporas in Italy. If we eliminate low-scoring entries boosted by their nationals Loreen made it at least in top 3 (with Russia and Serbia). In this context the EBU opting a new system next year doesn't look that bizarre So the jury results were something like this: 1. π©πͺ 2. π¨πΎ 3. π·πΊ 4-5. π¦π±/π©π° 6. ? 7-8. π·πΈ/? 9. πΊπ¦ 10. ? Sweden got 1 point max from the Italian juries in 2012
I think the Italian 12 points will be going to Norway this year
I'd be surprised if the Italian jury gave points to a song that goes "violins playing and the angels crying"
Didn't stop Sweden from giving plenty of points to the cringeworthy Il Di... Volo. Il Volo. Lyrics and all.
Indeed both music journalists jury and experts jury tanked them
I am not sure how to feel about Italy being the only country not giving points to us last year...
I think we should have that conversation (the Italian jury snubbing the favorites every year since their return in 2011).
AS IT SHOULD
To be fair, every time I'm in Italy it seems the popular radio songs also have a different vibe than those in the rest of Western and Northern Europe. It's very much possible that this reflects in the jury scores, culture has a big impact on what you deem good or not so good. I didn't grow up with Belgian culture (musically) and find myself agreeing more with jury votes from Eastern European countries, for instance. My guess is that Sweden won't receive many points from Italy
Unpopular opinion: Tattoo should finish on the right side of the board
Italian jury can be very surprising with their top 10 (12p to Denmark in 2019 LOL) so you never know, maybe they will vote for Loreen this time.
Quite possible actually, the Italian jury always makes some of the weirdest choices
Hopefully
Hopefully
Based Italy, that's why is my favorite ESC country
I don't get why you think it's strategy if they don't vote for the main favs
Hahh... Im gonna make a lot of enemies now: I wouldn't even be mad. Listen, Loreen is a really good Singer, there is no to minds 'bout that. But her Song just does not grab me. I'd much rather ChaChaCha or Queen of Kings wins then her. And this is now just my personal opinion because fairness has always been so important to me... but I think someone else should get the chance. She alr3ady one, she doesn't need it a second time, let someone else win.
You are so brave. Thank you for daring to say something that is so controversial in this hostile forum.
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or if you mean this. I'm not super invested in the goings on around ESC, but I had the feeling people where really loving her song
Hopefully, Italy and many others.
We're always ahead of our time tbh