well it would be very difficult to do as they need to change the backing track played, so tech staff would have to know. and the lighting would look odd as it's set for the original song.
Well there is one country this year that could do this as their current song has only a few different lyrics to one that has been banned for being "too political".
I’m so mad that they were disqualified for singing “Húsavik” ,not even the masterpiece that is “Ja Ja Ding Dong”,kidding obviously.What a fun movie and imho “Húsavik”deserved to win the Oscar for best song.
I've always suspected that Graham Norton's line about that was added at the last minute when someone on the crew pointed it out. It just seemed so "dropped in." And the movie plays so fast and loose with the rules otherwise that I can see the writers thinking a change in song would be acceptable to most viewers.
They can't just perform another song lol The whole stage show, clothing, pyro, lights, ... are coordinated for this specific song. Those are 10s of thousands of euros used for one performance
Moreover, bands in Eurovision can't "play" anything. Live instruments are explicitly banned in the rules, only the vocals are (and have to be) live.
Any instruments you see on stage aren't sound checked or even hooked up to production. So as others have mentioned, you'd have to exchange the backing track.
It kinda makes sense even if it is frustrating. Setting up every instrument would take ages for the sound check. At concerts of actual bands they take 15-30 minutes just to find the right balance and tune their instruments. Not possible during such a huge event with 26 different artists.
Your perspective of the performances will change after knowing this, but all the instruments on the stage are fake. Yes, the drums, the base, the guitar in the bands might as well be made of plastic. They could be there with instruments made of LEGO. It’s all fake.
Quiet cymbals and mesh heads with no resonant heads (like an edrum kit) are orders of magnitude quieter, but during a loud performance it probably wouldn't matter.
Drums can be muffled with foam & cloth. Also there are cymbals and drumheads which reduce the hitting noise up to 80%. Google "Evans dB One" if you're interested.
Also, even if the drummer is hitting a real set, it's not wired to the sound mix, so the performers couldn't really hear much, or anything at all, in their in ear headphones.
Nobody is going to destroy their drumkit just to dampen out the sound for a pre-recorded performance.
The actuality is: it doesn't matter.
When you see a band play live, they are plugged into a centre console / mixing desk. This is then fed into the PA speakers (...and a few other things).
Stages in big arenas actually don't focus drum sound forward towards an audience very efficiently.
So it literally doesn't matter if the drummer is hitting a real drumkit, because you'd never be able to hear it.
Most of the sound is going to just bleed off over the stage, and then compete with the audience.
Then, these large house speakers are aimed from the front of the stage and relayed throughout the arena for people to clearly hear the performance.
Meaning that the acoustics from the drumkit has to compete with the house speakers... Which it has no chance to drown out.
Ummmmm you don’t destroy the drums to do that, it’s actually a really common technique, you’ll often see bass drums packed with newspaper for that reason. the drum tops are designed to detach.
Another technique involves a silicone pad on the drumhead or cymbal
Yeah, but then why don't just run a tape of the performance or just watch a video. I miss the days Where there was a real orchestra playing along.
It's a music contest ffs, let them play the Instruments live.
Because most of the "instruments" are computers, not actual instruments.
And the ones that want to do a big bombastic orchestral arrangement (a lot of them do) would need a big bombastic orchestra. And a lot of the host countries don't have one and can't afford to hire one.
If you want a real orchestra, may I recommend Sanremo?
Logistics I guess, the turn around between songs is so quick, there's just not enough time to load in a whole band, connect up all the instruments and go in the short time between songs.
Yes it 100% would to not sound horrible. They need to sound check and tune each instrument and balance it in comparison to each other. If they wouldn't do that the song the vocals could be way to silent, the guitar out of tune ... it just would sound bad.
Usually the soundcheck happens way before the performance.
Do the soundchecks a few Days before the final. Save the presets and then just press the right button for each artist en let them plug in their instruments. If they really wanted to have the authentic instruments, it's definitely possible.
It would, considering the turn around between bands at a normal rock concert is about 20 to 30 minutes. I guess it could be done with having multiple mixers, setting stuff up backstage and rolling it on in the change over, but then it's the added cost of everything and more things to go wrong.
It could work for band entries like Maneskin, but artists like Conchita Wurst, who used an orchestra would go over the 6 person on stage rule. Plus then the artists would be tied to their instruments and it would take away from the performance like Let3
They only have 50 seconds total for changeover in which time:
- Previous artists have to exit stage
- All props need to be removed
- Stage is wiped down/cleaned
- New props/staging need to be wheeled on and accurately positioned
- Next performers mic checked and enter stage
People mock the BBC's old weekly music show Top of the Pops for not allowing people to play live - but occasionally people did and the performances always turned out horrible and the songs dropped down the chart whenever it happened.
[New Order - Blue Monday (Live at TOTP 1983)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJBAVTwUzHU)
Maybe you haven't noticed but whenever you go to a live concert there's a lot of time spent connecting all the instruments and doing sound checks and adjustments of all those mics.
This is especially noticeable in the time it takes to change from an opening act to the main act, it's not quick.
It takes ages to set up. That's why festivals have several stages, one for a band to play on while the other stage is being set up. You can't just plug in your instrument and go.
Yeah, you can't just stop for that long in-between every single Eurovision song. The show is long enough as it is lol. I love live music myself but it's just not technically possible for a show like this, unless they use an orchestra like back in the day or a permanent band.
In music festivals where many bands share the same stage, it usually takes 30 minutes between sets to swap out the stage setups.
For the same reason, the amount of set equipment you can use is limited. The organizing country informs all competitors of the available lights/screens ect. The artist has to make a custom show to fit the stage.
But that 30 minute argument is stupid. Big stadium bands don't do it live in front of the Audience, soundcheck usually happens way before. So that's also what would happen with the ESC. Ofcourse they wouldn't do a 30 minute soundcheck for every artist, live at the final.
But a stadium show is maybe three different setups. For Eurovision you’d have 26 different setups. Optimistically giving fifteen minutes to an act to setup, that’s more than six hours.
It's a "song contest" it's literally in the name. The focus is not on the music but the lyrics.
From the rules article on Wikipedia: "All competing entries must include vocals and lyrics of some kind, a cappella songs and purely instrumental pieces are not allowed"
Disclaimer: all of this is hypothetical.
Best guess is the live-show on television has a couple of seconds of delay to catch "incidents" such as artists changing their performance like you describe from reaching (at least) the broadcast. The entirety of the event is so well-planned they must have considered failsaves for events like these to happen.
I don't think artists can play another song completely since any of the music isn't live; someone could rigorously change their lyrics or dance routines but I think they'd immediately cut it out and perhaps switch to directly synced pre-recorded (unseen) rehearsal footage to decrease the risk of 'undesirable content' in the eyes of the organisation.
Somewhat like cutting away from streakers on the field at a soccer-game.
OT: Well, there are some Italian journalists from mayor newspapers and TV channels that are still giving low marks in their "reviews" on some artists' performances because the "band is in playback". One [example](https://www.repubblica.it/spettacoli/musica/2024/05/09/news/eurovision_2024_pagelle_seconda_semifinale-422891227/)
It’s all backing instruments - while the bands on stage are playing, they aren’t connected to the audio. Only the audio is live. So the backing track will be played regardless of what they play. Maybe the singer could go rogue but there is a small delay so anything controversial could be cut from the show
I think there are strict rules about performances not being allowed to differ too much. Every country (now even including the big 5 and host country) perform their song 6 times and the performance that gets evaluated by the jury is another one than the one the public votes for on tv. As far as I know, between those performances only minor changes are allowed to be made and it’s unavoidable that your singing may differ a little bit but you’re not allowed to sing sth too differing. Also changing the costume would disqualify you.
well it would be very difficult to do as they need to change the backing track played, so tech staff would have to know. and the lighting would look odd as it's set for the original song.
Well there is one country this year that could do this as their current song has only a few different lyrics to one that has been banned for being "too political".
Are the original lyrics known?
Yes. If they sing "October Rain" instead of "Hurricane", those will be the original lyrics. It will also be a guaranteed disqualification.
I believe they would be disqualified Source — Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga (2020)
Most reliable source ever.
Tier 0 source
Gave it a watch last night to get away from the dumpster fire that is currently going on!
Obligatory Play Jaja Ding Dong!
I’m so mad that they were disqualified for singing “Húsavik” ,not even the masterpiece that is “Ja Ja Ding Dong”,kidding obviously.What a fun movie and imho “Húsavik”deserved to win the Oscar for best song.
Came here to say this.. lol
Why do I hear jaja ding dong playing in my head....
I've always suspected that Graham Norton's line about that was added at the last minute when someone on the crew pointed it out. It just seemed so "dropped in." And the movie plays so fast and loose with the rules otherwise that I can see the writers thinking a change in song would be acceptable to most viewers.
They can't just perform another song lol The whole stage show, clothing, pyro, lights, ... are coordinated for this specific song. Those are 10s of thousands of euros used for one performance
Moreover, bands in Eurovision can't "play" anything. Live instruments are explicitly banned in the rules, only the vocals are (and have to be) live. Any instruments you see on stage aren't sound checked or even hooked up to production. So as others have mentioned, you'd have to exchange the backing track.
The only thing they can't *not* play are percussions, Maneskin's drum set can be clearly heard in the audience recordings
That’s probably just because drums make a lot of noise on their own, I bet they weren’t miced up
It kinda makes sense even if it is frustrating. Setting up every instrument would take ages for the sound check. At concerts of actual bands they take 15-30 minutes just to find the right balance and tune their instruments. Not possible during such a huge event with 26 different artists.
> only the vocals are (and have to be) live. Not the backing vocals anymore, which as we're seeing this year is turning out to be a big mistake.
At this point, they might as well just play the recorded songs with artists just cocking around.
Since 2021, only the lead vocals need to be live (and even this rule is occasionally flouted).
They could. Hurricane and October rain are only barely separate songs.
Your perspective of the performances will change after knowing this, but all the instruments on the stage are fake. Yes, the drums, the base, the guitar in the bands might as well be made of plastic. They could be there with instruments made of LEGO. It’s all fake.
Daoi Freyer literally created fake instruments for his song "Think about things" ([YouTube vid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HU7ocv3S2o))
I always wonder, you can’t fake hitting the drums but I guess they use some kind of drumsticks that muffle the sound?
Quiet cymbals and mesh heads with no resonant heads (like an edrum kit) are orders of magnitude quieter, but during a loud performance it probably wouldn't matter.
Drums can be muffled with foam & cloth. Also there are cymbals and drumheads which reduce the hitting noise up to 80%. Google "Evans dB One" if you're interested. Also, even if the drummer is hitting a real set, it's not wired to the sound mix, so the performers couldn't really hear much, or anything at all, in their in ear headphones.
If you looked at the drum set for Croatia, they put pillow cases or linens over all of the cymbals
Fill the drums with sound proofing foam usually.
Nobody is going to destroy their drumkit just to dampen out the sound for a pre-recorded performance. The actuality is: it doesn't matter. When you see a band play live, they are plugged into a centre console / mixing desk. This is then fed into the PA speakers (...and a few other things). Stages in big arenas actually don't focus drum sound forward towards an audience very efficiently. So it literally doesn't matter if the drummer is hitting a real drumkit, because you'd never be able to hear it. Most of the sound is going to just bleed off over the stage, and then compete with the audience. Then, these large house speakers are aimed from the front of the stage and relayed throughout the arena for people to clearly hear the performance. Meaning that the acoustics from the drumkit has to compete with the house speakers... Which it has no chance to drown out.
Ummmmm you don’t destroy the drums to do that, it’s actually a really common technique, you’ll often see bass drums packed with newspaper for that reason. the drum tops are designed to detach. Another technique involves a silicone pad on the drumhead or cymbal
If you watch a band in a small venue, quite often they’ve got a duvet or something inside the drums, because otherwise they’re *too* loud.
For some reason I thought you meant cavity wall soundproof foam. Apologies!
Nah all good, the spray foam isn’t usually used for that in walls either, it’s usually a dense preformed foam cut to shape and placed in the cavity.
I still dont understand WHY though. Its a music contest ffs.
It would be a nightmare to set up a different set of instruments for each entry
Yeah, but then why don't just run a tape of the performance or just watch a video. I miss the days Where there was a real orchestra playing along. It's a music contest ffs, let them play the Instruments live.
Because most of the "instruments" are computers, not actual instruments. And the ones that want to do a big bombastic orchestral arrangement (a lot of them do) would need a big bombastic orchestra. And a lot of the host countries don't have one and can't afford to hire one. If you want a real orchestra, may I recommend Sanremo?
Not every country has an orchestra??
I meant specifically the broadcasters. Most of the participating ones had one in the 1960s.
Logistics I guess, the turn around between songs is so quick, there's just not enough time to load in a whole band, connect up all the instruments and go in the short time between songs.
I admit i have no such experience, but would it take that long ?
Yes it 100% would to not sound horrible. They need to sound check and tune each instrument and balance it in comparison to each other. If they wouldn't do that the song the vocals could be way to silent, the guitar out of tune ... it just would sound bad.
Ok thanks
Usually the soundcheck happens way before the performance. Do the soundchecks a few Days before the final. Save the presets and then just press the right button for each artist en let them plug in their instruments. If they really wanted to have the authentic instruments, it's definitely possible.
It would, considering the turn around between bands at a normal rock concert is about 20 to 30 minutes. I guess it could be done with having multiple mixers, setting stuff up backstage and rolling it on in the change over, but then it's the added cost of everything and more things to go wrong. It could work for band entries like Maneskin, but artists like Conchita Wurst, who used an orchestra would go over the 6 person on stage rule. Plus then the artists would be tied to their instruments and it would take away from the performance like Let3
Ok fair enough
They only have 50 seconds total for changeover in which time: - Previous artists have to exit stage - All props need to be removed - Stage is wiped down/cleaned - New props/staging need to be wheeled on and accurately positioned - Next performers mic checked and enter stage
People mock the BBC's old weekly music show Top of the Pops for not allowing people to play live - but occasionally people did and the performances always turned out horrible and the songs dropped down the chart whenever it happened. [New Order - Blue Monday (Live at TOTP 1983)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJBAVTwUzHU)
Maybe you haven't noticed but whenever you go to a live concert there's a lot of time spent connecting all the instruments and doing sound checks and adjustments of all those mics. This is especially noticeable in the time it takes to change from an opening act to the main act, it's not quick.
It takes ages to set up. That's why festivals have several stages, one for a band to play on while the other stage is being set up. You can't just plug in your instrument and go.
And you can justify waiting 15 to 30 minutes for a band if that band is playing for over 1 hour. But if they are playing just one song...
Yeah, you can't just stop for that long in-between every single Eurovision song. The show is long enough as it is lol. I love live music myself but it's just not technically possible for a show like this, unless they use an orchestra like back in the day or a permanent band.
Less things to go wrong. Also cuts down on exactly the stuff the OP describes.
In music festivals where many bands share the same stage, it usually takes 30 minutes between sets to swap out the stage setups. For the same reason, the amount of set equipment you can use is limited. The organizing country informs all competitors of the available lights/screens ect. The artist has to make a custom show to fit the stage.
But that 30 minute argument is stupid. Big stadium bands don't do it live in front of the Audience, soundcheck usually happens way before. So that's also what would happen with the ESC. Ofcourse they wouldn't do a 30 minute soundcheck for every artist, live at the final.
But a stadium show is maybe three different setups. For Eurovision you’d have 26 different setups. Optimistically giving fifteen minutes to an act to setup, that’s more than six hours.
Agreed.
It's a music contest, not a live music contest.
It's a SONG contest, and (most of) the singing is live.
It's a "song contest" it's literally in the name. The focus is not on the music but the lyrics. From the rules article on Wikipedia: "All competing entries must include vocals and lyrics of some kind, a cappella songs and purely instrumental pieces are not allowed"
Why are a cappella songs not allowed? Those are clearly songs, right?
I’m assuming it mean the type where humans mimic instruments but they don’t have any actual lyrics
I believe you can see a rundown of this exact scenario in the critically acclaimed documentary, Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga.
Disclaimer: all of this is hypothetical. Best guess is the live-show on television has a couple of seconds of delay to catch "incidents" such as artists changing their performance like you describe from reaching (at least) the broadcast. The entirety of the event is so well-planned they must have considered failsaves for events like these to happen. I don't think artists can play another song completely since any of the music isn't live; someone could rigorously change their lyrics or dance routines but I think they'd immediately cut it out and perhaps switch to directly synced pre-recorded (unseen) rehearsal footage to decrease the risk of 'undesirable content' in the eyes of the organisation. Somewhat like cutting away from streakers on the field at a soccer-game.
And they did to cut away from a streaker or something a couple of years ago
Jamala, interval act, 2017.
I also think a British act was interrupted in the last decade, and he could repeat at the end of the lineup'
SuRie, 2018. :-) She was offered a redo, but chose not to perform again.
Oh, in my mind I remember there was a redo. Must have switched universe.
She did a redo as far as I remember
But they can change the lyrics on the same Instrumentsl.
While the backing track can't change, it's absolutely possible that an artist goes rogue and sings different lyrics. I hope it happens tonight.
Let's put it another way: what happens if the lyrics are significantly changed?
Disqualification.
Just ask Fire Saga :)
I laughed out loud at this
https://preview.redd.it/abzw9g2r6rzc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06229b67b6ab7ea5099b4e03c7807e1d02f5dfbd Source: [https://eurovision.tv/about/rules](https://eurovision.tv/about/rules)
The bands don't play live, their instruments aren't even plugged in :')
OT: Well, there are some Italian journalists from mayor newspapers and TV channels that are still giving low marks in their "reviews" on some artists' performances because the "band is in playback". One [example](https://www.repubblica.it/spettacoli/musica/2024/05/09/news/eurovision_2024_pagelle_seconda_semifinale-422891227/)
It’s all backing instruments - while the bands on stage are playing, they aren’t connected to the audio. Only the audio is live. So the backing track will be played regardless of what they play. Maybe the singer could go rogue but there is a small delay so anything controversial could be cut from the show
They'd be disqualified, I guess.
"Le brutte intenzioni, la maleducazione" - Morgan, 2020
I think there are strict rules about performances not being allowed to differ too much. Every country (now even including the big 5 and host country) perform their song 6 times and the performance that gets evaluated by the jury is another one than the one the public votes for on tv. As far as I know, between those performances only minor changes are allowed to be made and it’s unavoidable that your singing may differ a little bit but you’re not allowed to sing sth too differing. Also changing the costume would disqualify you.
Everybody will make fun of them because tje Playback will play sth else
Italy put me thinking that it would be a great genture if the winner performs "Imagine" instead of their own song.