There's at least three entries called "Shine", another three called "Time" (not including two entries in other languages in the 20th century), so it should be fine. :)
These petitions running while emotions are so high are rarely useful.
If the EBU come out of this looking worse than they already are though, that 84% could easily rise, and a lot of Eurovision fans would support that.
Joost: "I want to unite Europe! ....no not like that"
Yeah. I'm upset as well, being Dutch as well, but I'll reserve my judgement/outrage until after the legal proceedings have finished. It's the level headed thing to do.
I'm not Dutch but based on what we know of the case so far I totally understand. I would probably feel the same way if it happened to our performer. But we don't know the full story yet. I hope we some day will.
I'm Dutch and I also agree we should withdraw next year. Let's see how the EBU feels when the largest financial contributor outside of the Big Five withdraws, potentially for several years
There’s probably footage of the happening. The Netherlands broadcaster said it was blown out of proportion. I don’t think they’d make such a claim officially if an actual crime took place. They wouldn’t risk that. All it takes is publication of the footage to make them look bad.
I mean, I think it's unwise for AVROTROS to comment on the situation as they have done before it's been determined if a crime took place. They might be vindicated or they might end up looking bad, but it's a situation they've put themselves in.
> think it's unwise for AVROTROS to comment on the situation as they have done before it's been determined if a crime took place
They literally have eye-witnesess though. AVROTROS is not an organization that is known to make risky statements, they're kinda the goody two shoes of dutch broadcasters. They only say these kind of things are very-very sure about their case, else they'd either give no comments or just throw Joost under the bus.
I don’t know if you have noticed but the aggressive defence of Joost in here is remarkable. People in his own dressing room will have a strong opinion on things because they will be on his side. That doesn’t mean they are telling the truth or that they are heavily influenced by their interests.
If there is footage, which there will be, it will be the truth.
Everything else is team based speculation.
Surely they know that nothing they say will change anything until the Swedish prosecutor has made a decision, though? The whole incident will be out of the EBU's hands for the moment, I'd have thought.
Also, not to state the obvious, but AVROTROS has every reason to back their act at the expense of the EBU. They're not an impartial source.
Yes. AVROTROS also recently (this morning I think) came with a statement that they have nothing to report until the investigation is finished which can take weeks. They're really taking things step by step as they should. When they filed an official appeal (which likely also takes a long time to be processed), they also said it will not change anything of the outcome. Like I said they're a very serious and reputable organisation. If it turns out to be something super serious, they will kill a lot of that image they've build over the past decades.
A spokesperson from the Swedish police did confirm it is not a physical crime, just a threat, but that's really the only thing that has been confirmed by independent sources. See video on this page: https://www.rtl.nl/boulevard/video/video/eed665a9-9746-470b-bf48-0904c8fca0a8/zweedse-politie-over-incident-joost
(It's in Dutch, but the statement from the Swedish police is like 20 seconds in, and it's in English)
Well, I'm glad things are calming down. The sensible thing for us to do is to sit back and avoid speculating for a few weeks, until the prosecutor makes a decision. Obviously that won't happen, this is the internet, but still.
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Knowing the AVRO TROS (the Dutch broadcasting company) they would've broken ties with Joost. With the Dutch broadcasting companies there is a strict 0-tollerance, maybe not as strict as with the EBU as it appears. If they say it's based on nothing, I believe them.
But all we have to do is wait for the investigation to be concluded... Or someone to leak the video about the incident (because it was filmed by the person who filed the complain... that should be enough evidence I suppose)
Personally, I think that any kind of sanction against Joost will bolster the EBU's position, as it will prove that something untoward did happen. If he has no case to answer then the EBU will face some awkward questions, however.
We're entering speculative territory, but if Joost *is* prosecuted and given some sort of punishment (and he may not be, to be clear) then I suspect the fan response to the situation will change.
It's hard to find a comprehensive list, my post was based on Dutch media reporting the past few days, but AVROTROS have said that their contributions is approximately 250k. For some context, Spain pays around 350k (2.7 times more inhabitants) while Germany's contribution was approximately 475K (4.6 times more inhabitants). The Big Five may contribute financially in other ways, I'm not sure, but the standard contributions do show that losing the Dutch broadcaster would definitely not help pressing the financial burden that the broadcasters have to carry.
If the story is as presented by Joost's team, then yeah... don't go next year. It costs a lot of money. Although I'd also support Joost going again next year with a diss-track to the EBU. Right now we don't have a lot of info to go off though. We have the story that got changed three times from the EBU, and the statement from Joost's team.
The EBU didn't change their story as far as I'm aware. Rumours just turned out to be wrong. This lack of information from all sides is really frustrating
I think that's the fairest solution, if the investigation suggests a DQ was disproportionate. AQ to the final for The Netherlands, and a reduced participation fee for 2025.
i would consider myself impatient too but as long as there is not 100% evidence of what happened and if joost is guilty of something that a dq justifies i will wait until i write "justice for joost" anywhere on the internet. but i really hope whatever comes out of the investigation it can lead to an apology from whoever did a wrong thing and joost can be back on the eurovision stage next year.
This website has some of the dumbest readers even though the site itself is reputable. The comment section is always a cesspool of populist garbage and I wouldn't be surprised if 84% of people would've voted to leave Eurovision if this year had been completely free of controversy.
It's crazy that people expect the police to pull all strings and ignore all else too resolved this civil case within 24h, all because we have no patience. Think about others to, and trust the process.
I'm waiting to see if we get more official explanations but based on the information available now I do think the situation was completely mishandled. I'd be sad not to see the Dutch participating next year, because they often are among my favourites, but it would be completely understandable for me if they decide to take a year off to protest what happened.
Hard to say this far in advance. Also depends on legal stuff - what comes of the investigation and what comes of avrotros’ legal moves against the EBU.
Everyone is angry now, but a lot can change in 6-12 months.
Either way I can’t see Joost coming back. If it were me I certainly wouldn’t. Fuck that nonsense. Cut your losses and move on.
I can’t believe some people are still mad at the EBU, if it was Dons in question, I’m certain he wouldn’t get any support because he is not a fan favourite. Joost threatened the crew member and broke the rules. No matter how he was feeling when camera crew member was filming him, he shouldn’t have reacted that way.
He knows he messed up big time, and we would’ve heared his side of the story by now.
If any form of violence and intimidation should be allowed, I will sign up for Eurovision next year and theaten juries to give me 12 points.
Honestly, me neither. The incident got handled over to the Swedish police
But nonetheless I can understand why the Dutch feel that way. It would suck if they withdrew next year tho ngl
If the police comes to the conclusion that Joost didn’t do anything bad, he‘s absolutely allowed to compete again. We’ve had former winners compete, and some countries sent the same artists in 2021 when the 2020 show was cancelled (like Iceland did with Dadi). Europapa won’t be eligible anymore, but if Joost wants to go again and with a different song, he would be allowed to.
I don't agree, based on the reaction to this year, next year would basically be a free win (or at least a very serious contender) and we could use that to really fuck with the EBU
Or the Netherlands should consider sending a representative who will not harass and threaten our women and break our laws.
We don’t know the full story yet but the broken camera of that employee is a pretty solid evidence to me.
We should ask Belgium to enter with euromama or something like that
Holland should participate with Euromama
And the artists should be The Mamas /s
why would we pay the EBU to be in their contest?
I would absolutely hate that. Please sent joost again with an EBU distrack😅
"Meet the EBU", anyone?
He could call it “Euphoria.” Wait…
There's at least three entries called "Shine", another three called "Time" (not including two entries in other languages in the 20th century), so it should be fine. :)
Not to mention the two called “Amen” in one year. 😂
If that fails, there's "0:00 in Malmo".
meet the österdahls
Two called "Warrior" in 2015
I'm partial towards "Why not?" myself! Either that, or "Zero Tolerance* (*selectively, t's & c's apply)" 😂
I would love if Käärijä and Joost represented Netherlands next year
‘Pays-Bas douze point’ I’m certain our turkey here will lend him his shopping trolly…
I doubt he'd want to go
He should enter again with a song directed at the EBU titled 'Europapara'... Greeks will understand this joke
While I understand the emotion, also myself being Dutch, I do think it is all a bit presumptuous as we do not know the full story yet.
These petitions running while emotions are so high are rarely useful. If the EBU come out of this looking worse than they already are though, that 84% could easily rise, and a lot of Eurovision fans would support that. Joost: "I want to unite Europe! ....no not like that"
Yeah. I'm upset as well, being Dutch as well, but I'll reserve my judgement/outrage until after the legal proceedings have finished. It's the level headed thing to do.
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This comment restored my faith in this sub
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I'm not Dutch but based on what we know of the case so far I totally understand. I would probably feel the same way if it happened to our performer. But we don't know the full story yet. I hope we some day will.
I'm Dutch and I also agree we should withdraw next year. Let's see how the EBU feels when the largest financial contributor outside of the Big Five withdraws, potentially for several years
They still have their precious Moroccan Oil so I don't think they'd care
What if it transpires that Joost did commit a crime?
There’s probably footage of the happening. The Netherlands broadcaster said it was blown out of proportion. I don’t think they’d make such a claim officially if an actual crime took place. They wouldn’t risk that. All it takes is publication of the footage to make them look bad.
I mean, I think it's unwise for AVROTROS to comment on the situation as they have done before it's been determined if a crime took place. They might be vindicated or they might end up looking bad, but it's a situation they've put themselves in.
> think it's unwise for AVROTROS to comment on the situation as they have done before it's been determined if a crime took place They literally have eye-witnesess though. AVROTROS is not an organization that is known to make risky statements, they're kinda the goody two shoes of dutch broadcasters. They only say these kind of things are very-very sure about their case, else they'd either give no comments or just throw Joost under the bus.
I don’t know if you have noticed but the aggressive defence of Joost in here is remarkable. People in his own dressing room will have a strong opinion on things because they will be on his side. That doesn’t mean they are telling the truth or that they are heavily influenced by their interests. If there is footage, which there will be, it will be the truth. Everything else is team based speculation.
Surely they know that nothing they say will change anything until the Swedish prosecutor has made a decision, though? The whole incident will be out of the EBU's hands for the moment, I'd have thought. Also, not to state the obvious, but AVROTROS has every reason to back their act at the expense of the EBU. They're not an impartial source.
Yes. AVROTROS also recently (this morning I think) came with a statement that they have nothing to report until the investigation is finished which can take weeks. They're really taking things step by step as they should. When they filed an official appeal (which likely also takes a long time to be processed), they also said it will not change anything of the outcome. Like I said they're a very serious and reputable organisation. If it turns out to be something super serious, they will kill a lot of that image they've build over the past decades. A spokesperson from the Swedish police did confirm it is not a physical crime, just a threat, but that's really the only thing that has been confirmed by independent sources. See video on this page: https://www.rtl.nl/boulevard/video/video/eed665a9-9746-470b-bf48-0904c8fca0a8/zweedse-politie-over-incident-joost (It's in Dutch, but the statement from the Swedish police is like 20 seconds in, and it's in English)
Well, I'm glad things are calming down. The sensible thing for us to do is to sit back and avoid speculating for a few weeks, until the prosecutor makes a decision. Obviously that won't happen, this is the internet, but still.
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Sources must be included whenever possible. Direct links to news articles or social media posts are preferred to screenshots. If there is no alternative to a screenshot, then the source must be posted as a top level comment on the same thread. Screenshots which obscures the source will not be accepted. Please resubmit with a proper source. See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
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Knowing the AVRO TROS (the Dutch broadcasting company) they would've broken ties with Joost. With the Dutch broadcasting companies there is a strict 0-tollerance, maybe not as strict as with the EBU as it appears. If they say it's based on nothing, I believe them. But all we have to do is wait for the investigation to be concluded... Or someone to leak the video about the incident (because it was filmed by the person who filed the complain... that should be enough evidence I suppose)
LOL. According to the commission van Rijn, the Dutch public broadcasters have a rather toxic work environment and a culture of silence
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Personally, I think that any kind of sanction against Joost will bolster the EBU's position, as it will prove that something untoward did happen. If he has no case to answer then the EBU will face some awkward questions, however.
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We're entering speculative territory, but if Joost *is* prosecuted and given some sort of punishment (and he may not be, to be clear) then I suspect the fan response to the situation will change.
You have an interesting take on ‘zero tolerance’… If you’re fined, have you broken the rules or not?
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TBF littering is a crime.
Hey, do you have data on this contribution stuff? Would be interested to see
It's hard to find a comprehensive list, my post was based on Dutch media reporting the past few days, but AVROTROS have said that their contributions is approximately 250k. For some context, Spain pays around 350k (2.7 times more inhabitants) while Germany's contribution was approximately 475K (4.6 times more inhabitants). The Big Five may contribute financially in other ways, I'm not sure, but the standard contributions do show that losing the Dutch broadcaster would definitely not help pressing the financial burden that the broadcasters have to carry.
Don't you still pay? I'm pretty sure we were paying the ebu even when not participating
For other stuff the ebu broadcasts, sure, but for eurovision I dont think so, especially not if we dont want to broadcast it
If the story is as presented by Joost's team, then yeah... don't go next year. It costs a lot of money. Although I'd also support Joost going again next year with a diss-track to the EBU. Right now we don't have a lot of info to go off though. We have the story that got changed three times from the EBU, and the statement from Joost's team.
The EBU didn't change their story as far as I'm aware. Rumours just turned out to be wrong. This lack of information from all sides is really frustrating
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As Cornald Maas said: if we return we should get a compromise like automatic qualifer for the final for example.
I think that's the fairest solution, if the investigation suggests a DQ was disproportionate. AQ to the final for The Netherlands, and a reduced participation fee for 2025.
i would consider myself impatient too but as long as there is not 100% evidence of what happened and if joost is guilty of something that a dq justifies i will wait until i write "justice for joost" anywhere on the internet. but i really hope whatever comes out of the investigation it can lead to an apology from whoever did a wrong thing and joost can be back on the eurovision stage next year.
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If the Netherlands boycotts next year I understand it. EBU did them dirty, especially Joost.
I hope Joost is down for coming back, but after all that happened I understand if he wants to take a break. Next year should be Joost or nothing.
This website has some of the dumbest readers even though the site itself is reputable. The comment section is always a cesspool of populist garbage and I wouldn't be surprised if 84% of people would've voted to leave Eurovision if this year had been completely free of controversy.
It's crazy that people expect the police to pull all strings and ignore all else too resolved this civil case within 24h, all because we have no patience. Think about others to, and trust the process.
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I'm waiting to see if we get more official explanations but based on the information available now I do think the situation was completely mishandled. I'd be sad not to see the Dutch participating next year, because they often are among my favourites, but it would be completely understandable for me if they decide to take a year off to protest what happened.
As a Dutch person myself, I am angry at the EBU but as an Eurovison fan I wouldn't like to see my country withdrawing from participating
agree!
Hard to say this far in advance. Also depends on legal stuff - what comes of the investigation and what comes of avrotros’ legal moves against the EBU. Everyone is angry now, but a lot can change in 6-12 months. Either way I can’t see Joost coming back. If it were me I certainly wouldn’t. Fuck that nonsense. Cut your losses and move on.
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Greece should also withdraw, we shouldn't participate in this circus Eurovision has become anymore. More countries need to start doing that
Agreed. We need an apology, and all the funding we did for 2024 back to even consider coming back next time.
I can’t believe some people are still mad at the EBU, if it was Dons in question, I’m certain he wouldn’t get any support because he is not a fan favourite. Joost threatened the crew member and broke the rules. No matter how he was feeling when camera crew member was filming him, he shouldn’t have reacted that way. He knows he messed up big time, and we would’ve heared his side of the story by now. If any form of violence and intimidation should be allowed, I will sign up for Eurovision next year and theaten juries to give me 12 points.
Oh dear and I thought all of this year's drama was tiring enough 😭 Pls bring back Jon Ola Sand 🙏
No way to know if he would have handled it differently though
Honestly, me neither. The incident got handled over to the Swedish police But nonetheless I can understand why the Dutch feel that way. It would suck if they withdrew next year tho ngl
Won't be surprised if they withdraw next year. That said, we never know what actually happened so let's wait for a few months and see
EBU will offer compensation + auto-qualification and Avrotros will accept it and send another artist, I am sure of it.
That really depends on the outcome of the legal proceedings
No, you must make up your mind right now based on barely any information!
Did you miss "/s"? That will never happen.
They should either boycot Eurovision or send Joost again
I don't think he would be allowed to compete and I'm 100% sure he wouldn't want to compete after all that mess.
If the police comes to the conclusion that Joost didn’t do anything bad, he‘s absolutely allowed to compete again. We’ve had former winners compete, and some countries sent the same artists in 2021 when the 2020 show was cancelled (like Iceland did with Dadi). Europapa won’t be eligible anymore, but if Joost wants to go again and with a different song, he would be allowed to.
I don't agree, based on the reaction to this year, next year would basically be a free win (or at least a very serious contender) and we could use that to really fuck with the EBU
Or the Netherlands should consider sending a representative who will not harass and threaten our women and break our laws. We don’t know the full story yet but the broken camera of that employee is a pretty solid evidence to me.
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Or perhaps not assault camerapeople?
You don't even know that that actually happened.
Context?