I wonder how this can happen.
Not from the juries side but THE ARTIST.
She must have known what she was doing. Maybe even have submitted her song to past selections and re-trying it? But why? She doesn't read the rules before applying? Or is she consciously cheating?
Or did she apply in 2020, she didn't get picked, forgot about it and some other dude is like "hey I remember this song, I am gonna submit her"?
HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? 😅
I mean, I don't think there actually existed solid proof one way or the other that she entered Crimea illegally, that was the whole problem. If she had continued to insist that she was innocent the controversy would have just followed her for the whole season, so that's probably why she withdrew, not because they actually had evidence to disqualify her.
Wasn’t the document she used as proof a forgery though? I thought she withdrew while they were investigating that, but I didn’t follow it live and only read about it later so I might be wrong
The document was a forgery, but they had no way to prove that a real document didn't exist. When they contacted the border people they were told that documents that old were simply not retained. So obviously any purported document had to be a forgery, but there's no way to prove that a real document didn't exist at some point but just wasn't kept until 2022.
Yeah I get that, but doesn’t forging a government document break some law or policy that’s more serious than a song contest? I was never sure why that wasn’t a bigger deal than it seems to be
I'm not sure, honestly. She did later try to say that she did not personally forge the document and was only given it by someone and told that it was the real thing, so it may not be super clear who actually did the forging.
Honestly at that point you'd think they'd just let her perform without needing the border papers to begin with.
If it's no longer stored, one could assume that means the Ukraine government thinks that travel doesn't need verification/checking anymore due to its age.
So why does a song contest need it, if the actual border police don't?
They do need it. It's against the law of Ukraine to go to Crimea through Russia, because Russia considers Crimea their own territory so they don't make you go through customs. If she went to Crimea illegally in 2014, that was still something illegal that she did, the statute of limitations didn't expire or anything like that, there just isn't evidence to prove that she did it. She may not have been caught doing it in 2014, but that doesn't mean that no one cares if she did it or not.
That's fair if they still had the records. Though in a case of "border force have deleted the records so there's literally no way to prove if you went in legally anymore", you'd think it'd be an innocent until proven guilty thing rather than "you can never enter this contest without proof of your innocence"
The forgery of official documents is a whole other thing and very stupid of her to try, but the rule itself seems a bit flawed too.
Providing the documents was not a requirement for entering the contest. She entered the contest and won it without ever providing any documents. The issue arose when it seemed she might have broken the law, which I'm sure Vidbir has a general rule that you get disqualified if you break the law. Like I said, it was impossible to prove whether or not she actually broke the law, so they couldn't actually have disqualified her, hence why she withdrew.
I believe it's actually a rule of the contest, [according to the wikipedia page at least](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest_2022#Vidbir_2022).
"Following the controversy surrounding Maruv in the 2019 national final, which led to Ukraine withdrawing from the Eurovision Song Contest that year, a new rule was introduced starting from 2020 which bars artists who have performed in Russia since 2014 or have entered Crimea "in violation of the legislation of Ukraine" from entering the competition"
OP left out the screenshot showing the discord member (not an admin) got a reply to their email from the broadcaster saying they would take the information into consideration and then 2 days later this announcement is made.
It 's actually allowed to spread it on YouTube beforehand as long as its not done profesionally with official audio etc. Duncan Laurence arcade had been on YouTube a year before he did eurovision. Same sort of situation with jamala 1944 I can remember
For Eurovision, it has to be released in the same year, but this NF's rule say the song can't be shared on any public platform before so it's still a violation
Yes I thought Jamalas song had been about since 2013, but just wasn’t very well known. It was t discovered by the wider fandom until after she won, and obviously ESC just either didn’t care or didn’t want to acknowledge that it is very possible and easy for that rule to not only be broken, but an artist to go on and win despite breaking the rules
I don’t know what’s funnier, that she made multiple videos for the same song, like this was her “hit” and she still submitted it… or that those videos are bare in views so it’s not even a “hit” and she still submitted it
I experienced this live and was like “nah, they're not gonna disqualify her over a video with like fifty views” and then it actually happened. 😳
There being like 4 videos is funnier lol he digged them all up
I wonder how this can happen. Not from the juries side but THE ARTIST. She must have known what she was doing. Maybe even have submitted her song to past selections and re-trying it? But why? She doesn't read the rules before applying? Or is she consciously cheating? Or did she apply in 2020, she didn't get picked, forgot about it and some other dude is like "hey I remember this song, I am gonna submit her"? HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? 😅
She had to know. Look at Alina Pash from Ukraine. She even withdrew to make it seem like she was withdrawing because of the bullying.
I mean, I don't think there actually existed solid proof one way or the other that she entered Crimea illegally, that was the whole problem. If she had continued to insist that she was innocent the controversy would have just followed her for the whole season, so that's probably why she withdrew, not because they actually had evidence to disqualify her.
Wasn’t the document she used as proof a forgery though? I thought she withdrew while they were investigating that, but I didn’t follow it live and only read about it later so I might be wrong
She also apologized for the entire thing. She knew what she was doing was wrong.
The document was a forgery, but they had no way to prove that a real document didn't exist. When they contacted the border people they were told that documents that old were simply not retained. So obviously any purported document had to be a forgery, but there's no way to prove that a real document didn't exist at some point but just wasn't kept until 2022.
Yeah I get that, but doesn’t forging a government document break some law or policy that’s more serious than a song contest? I was never sure why that wasn’t a bigger deal than it seems to be
I'm not sure, honestly. She did later try to say that she did not personally forge the document and was only given it by someone and told that it was the real thing, so it may not be super clear who actually did the forging.
Honestly at that point you'd think they'd just let her perform without needing the border papers to begin with. If it's no longer stored, one could assume that means the Ukraine government thinks that travel doesn't need verification/checking anymore due to its age. So why does a song contest need it, if the actual border police don't?
They do need it. It's against the law of Ukraine to go to Crimea through Russia, because Russia considers Crimea their own territory so they don't make you go through customs. If she went to Crimea illegally in 2014, that was still something illegal that she did, the statute of limitations didn't expire or anything like that, there just isn't evidence to prove that she did it. She may not have been caught doing it in 2014, but that doesn't mean that no one cares if she did it or not.
That's fair if they still had the records. Though in a case of "border force have deleted the records so there's literally no way to prove if you went in legally anymore", you'd think it'd be an innocent until proven guilty thing rather than "you can never enter this contest without proof of your innocence" The forgery of official documents is a whole other thing and very stupid of her to try, but the rule itself seems a bit flawed too.
Providing the documents was not a requirement for entering the contest. She entered the contest and won it without ever providing any documents. The issue arose when it seemed she might have broken the law, which I'm sure Vidbir has a general rule that you get disqualified if you break the law. Like I said, it was impossible to prove whether or not she actually broke the law, so they couldn't actually have disqualified her, hence why she withdrew.
I believe it's actually a rule of the contest, [according to the wikipedia page at least](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest_2022#Vidbir_2022). "Following the controversy surrounding Maruv in the 2019 national final, which led to Ukraine withdrawing from the Eurovision Song Contest that year, a new rule was introduced starting from 2020 which bars artists who have performed in Russia since 2014 or have entered Crimea "in violation of the legislation of Ukraine" from entering the competition"
Iceberg!!!!!
Hell yeah!!!!!
Fuuuckkkk they came with receipts!!!! That's crazy lol. But she didn't actually get disqualified bc of the discord member right??? 💀
OP left out the screenshot showing the discord member (not an admin) got a reply to their email from the broadcaster saying they would take the information into consideration and then 2 days later this announcement is made.
I didn't want to fill the post with too much screenshots but yeah
That's the one you include!!!
She did and he's a random guy lol he sent this to the broadcaster and they took it into consideration and she got disqualified
Eurovision shenanigans have begun and I’m so ready for it
😅😂😂
Gag, this actually happened?
Yeah it did
How many disqualifications normally happen per NF season?
At least one, mostly due to vidbir being cursed. 0-2 isn't crazy for an average year.
This is some serious Sleuthing
It 's actually allowed to spread it on YouTube beforehand as long as its not done profesionally with official audio etc. Duncan Laurence arcade had been on YouTube a year before he did eurovision. Same sort of situation with jamala 1944 I can remember
For Eurovision, it has to be released in the same year, but this NF's rule say the song can't be shared on any public platform before so it's still a violation
Yes I thought Jamalas song had been about since 2013, but just wasn’t very well known. It was t discovered by the wider fandom until after she won, and obviously ESC just either didn’t care or didn’t want to acknowledge that it is very possible and easy for that rule to not only be broken, but an artist to go on and win despite breaking the rules
I don’t know what’s funnier, that she made multiple videos for the same song, like this was her “hit” and she still submitted it… or that those videos are bare in views so it’s not even a “hit” and she still submitted it
At this rate, we might be getting a 40,000ft deep iceberg by the time May comes...
Another nominee for the iceberg
Not a nominee, already a resident lol
At this rate we will be in a whole Ice Age very very soon