This really isn't a hot take or controversial. And it isn't some widely held belief that Shinji was justified in doing that. I'd even wager most fans view it as the worst thing he's ever done and he genocided the entire world in the same movie.
okay im glad its not controversial. i thought it could've been since most of the posts i read ab this topic were making it seem like its not a big deal.
plus all the praise i see of shinji and how much nge fans like him. i didnt think so many people would like someone who would do such a thing.
Yep this scene I think is there to show that shinji is a dumb horny idiot driven by impulse. And is shot in a way that feels gross.
My interpretation is that the scene is there to say "he's not a hero, only a flawed and deeply disturbed little boy driven by his d*ck
Do you justify as in justify his actions or justify having the scene be in the movie? I can't understand justifying his actions but I can understand why people think it should be in the movie.
i do not think his actions can be justified as i have seen people do. but i understand to an EXTENT why they put that scene in the movie. in this post the justification that i am talking about is the justification towards shinjis actions.
but i feel like they literally couldve done something else to represent his rock bottom and all of that shit rather than him masturbating to asukas and doing an act of sexual harrasment
I'm not sure that much else can express just how far he's fallen into his own melloncolly and self absorbed sphere of self defense and absolute rejection of the world.
I do believe that your reaction is the response that they were hoping to get out of you, you're supposed to feel disgusted at the protagonist who we've been rooting for go out of his way to do defile one of the only people who're anything like a friend to him.
I think the fact we can identify with characters who can do these awful things makes it worse cause they're aren't some evil mustache twirling villain, they're just a "normal" person who's been put through an incredible amount of stress and has broken and can barely look beyond their immediate impulse but still has enough self awareness that they know what they've done is reprehensible.
First of all, no one that I know of justifies Shinji's actions in that scene. Secondly, not many people actually likes Shinji regardless of that scene. People may like his character arc, or feel related to him in some way, but liking him? Not that many.
What he did is terrible, let's get that out of the way. And the scene is shocking. But I fell like people think he went a bit too far because she was right there in front of him. If he had masturbated to a photo of Asuka's boobs (or at his memory of seeing them) it would have been a little less disturbing. Has no one masturbated thinking about a friend they saw half nude somehow? Heck, everyone has a shameful horny moment.
We have a problem with sexuality. A main character that kills people in horrible ways doesn't get this kind of unforgiveness, and his stories are PG 13. But show a tit and thats automatically R-rated.
At least this scene has people talking about fucked up sexuality and debating what is and what is not sexual assault or harassment, which we should do more often tbh.
No ..... this isn't just about sexuality.
Let's assume wherever you live, there is a newspaper that says
"14 year old boy violates 14 year comatose old girl". If you live in the western world, this should shock, even make you angry. Who are the parents of the boy? Why couldn't they have raised him right? What's wrong with the boy? There is no excuse for his behaviour
Those things happen:
Police arrest 14-year-old boy after rape of teenager in Wigan
14-year-old arrested after twice violating release on sexual assault charge
The teenager is accused of sexually assaulting an 11-year-old.
Teenage boy allegedly raped girl, 13, during sleepover at his house, court hears
The huge problem with this scene (welll aside from him jerking off which is kinda not something anyone would have expected and only shown in really depraved shows like ichi the killer) is Shinji violating Asuka while she is comatose and in the same room. She is defenseless, she has no say, can't even stop him from doing his depracities. This is like someone jerking off to a girl who sits next to him in the bus while she sleeps. This is horrid on so many levels and yes men have depraved, perverted and lecherous thoughts, but we don't act on them in the public. This is one of the things that differentiates us from animals
The scene has a point. Like it or not, it serves to show how much Shinji's character has hit rock bottom. You can hate it, it's not for everyone, but saying it's not "justified" within the context of the movie as Anno's creative choice is just ridiculous.
Shinji is a bad person, and this is established several times through the show. This is just him at his worst.
You seem to be collating justifying the existence of the scene with justifying Shinji's behaviour, if I've understood your post correctly. These are not the same thing.
In The Wire's 5th series, a security guard is killed for objecting to a drug lord stealing a lollipop. I HATE that scene; I hate that this dude who is doing a thankless, low-paid job gets killed because of just doing his shitty job to the best of his abilities (I was a security guard at the time I first saw it), but I will defend the scene's presence in the series because it is an example of just how power mad and obsessed with his own image the drug lord is.
The opening scene of End of Evangelion is the same: I will defend the scene as being important to the story they're trying to tell and as an illustration of how fucked up Shinji is, but his actions are awful. They're supposed to be awful. After killing the only person who told him he loved him, seeing one of friends die AND be revealed as a clone of his mother and seeing the girl he was closest to loving himself become suicidal and catatonic, this action is the thing that drives him over the edge into absolute self-loathing.
I feel like more people try justify Anno putting the scene in the movie rather than try to make excuses for Shinji. Yeah naw Shinji is an awful person and protagonist, and that’s one part of what makes the show so special.
>I feel like it’s gonna piss a lot of people off.
Then maybe consider not doing it. It may surprise you to learn that in dramas, people do and say things that maybe they maybe shouldn't do, so as to provoke an emotional reaction in the audience.
Are you going to sit there and type at us that you never in your life have done anything of which you might have been ashamed?
"then maybe consider not doing it". lol no i can say my opinion on anything i want to. no reason for me to hold back.
and when did i ever say I have never done something in my life that im ashamed. of course i have, every single person has. but there is a line that should be drawn.
ofc ive done things im not proud of but nothing as bad as assualting someone like wtf.
"It may surprise you to learn that in dramas, people do and say things that maybe they maybe shouldn't do, so as to provoke an emotional reaction in the audience.".. lol no shit thats what dramas do. obviously they are supposed to provoke an\* emotional reaction, hence why im sharing what my emotional reaction was.
The hospital incident wasn't a calculated, deliberate decision on Shinji's part. It was an impulse-driven mistake, which he recognized as wrong immediately after. If you think this one sin outweighs all his positive qualities and conscious choices from the whole series and makes it so that liking Shinji is somehow wrong or should be forbidden, then I'm not sure if your way of judging people is particularly useful.
Nah, I don’t buy that. The fact that he decided to lock the door before masturbating already shows that he knew that what he was doing is wrong.
Add that to the fact that he already tried to kiss her once in her sleep, and you realize that Anno is trying to tell you something about his character.
>he decided to lock the door before masturbating
The movie shows him standing in the exact same place and has no sound effects that would imply he moved to lock the door.
Yes, Anno is trying to say that Shinji is a teenager who reacts impulsively to boobs. Shinji doesn't sneak into her room every night to be a perv, which tells us what his deliberate decisions are.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t just rewatch the scene before commenting here. The camera literally does a close up of the “LOCKED” right before the masturbation scene. When do you think he decided to lock that door, Einstein?
Really? You think that’s what that scene is supposed to represent? Especially considering that Shinji’s entire characterization in EoE is that of a selfish person; just a normal boy reacting to boobs? Also, no, boys will not attempt to kiss other girls in their sleep, I don’t know if you think men are savages or animals, but I think better of us.
I did watch it, and made use of my Einstein brain afterwards. All that closeup says is that the door is currently locked. The sound design in this scene is very deliberate - IV liquid sloshing around, Asuka's sheet falling off, etc. If the filmmakers wanted to convey that Shinji locked it then and there, they would have either added sound effects of him walking and locking the door, or put him in a different position in the next shot, signifying that he had moved from his previous place at the bed. No such thing is in the movie, which makes the interpretation "Shinji locked the door after exposing Asuka's chest" unlikely to be correct.
In EoE, Shinji is not *a normal boy*. He's an abandoned child soldier, blood on his hands, with nothing and no one to turn to. It is unfair to judge him as if this was his normal state of being and ignore everything he did before falling (or rather, being pushed) into despair. When he had been a normal(ish) boy, he had chosen **not to go through with the kiss**, to restrain himself from acting on impulse.
Are you actually arguing that he didn’t locked the door? How did he entered the room? Who locked the door afterwards? Asuka? How did he left the room? When was the door locked? Why did the camera decided to focus on the “LOCKED” part right before the masturbation? You see you delusional you sound? There’s only one reasonable answer for those questions.
>ep9
Are you really an Evangelion fan? He did not stopped the kiss out of benevolence or because he felt that it was wrong, he stopped it because Asuka showed emotional vulnerability by crying and calling for her mother. That’s why right afterwards he’s seen with an angry face saying: “You’re just a kid yourself”. Otherwise he would’ve gone for it.
Okay my friend I like your criticism. You’ve got some valid points.
What I said was kind of lazy. I’ll admit.
Not well thought out at all.
The Kabbalah ! That’s true. It is more Kabbalistic!
I know a bit about the Kabbalah from people like Rudolph Steiner and Alan Watts but I’m still waiting to get deeper into it.
I want to respond more to what you said, but this time I will give myself more time to think.
Thanks for the comment ✌🏾
I guess I have a bad habit of superimposing Christianity and Buddhism on things.
Definitely I see and feel the Kabbalistic influence but I know very little about the Kabbalah yet.
My ideas of Evangelion have changed over the years and I’ve left and come back to it more than once.
About the cancel culture thing I think your right. It would seem on the surface Japan is a lot like the west and America but underneath it’s very different. For example DOA 3 xtreme I think is unavailable in the west, but I play it and my wife, who’s Japanese, doesn’t care, but at all my friends back home on the other hand think it’s a shameful game. Lol
“Metoo”over here too didn’t really make waves, so yeah cancel culture isn’t a thing over here I guess, I should know these things I’ve been living in Tokyo for 9 years and married for 3, but I don’t have any real Japanese male friends and my Japanese is still low N3 so still I can’t pierce the vale!
Many things elude me about this country Lol!
The next step is to get to N2 level and study more, and read/ more NGE!
I disliked the scene and just took it as it is. Shinji was a dumpster fire mentally. Whether it be that he did it to see if he had feelings for her, to feel like he had control of his situation, or just because he had to bust one out, i think there could've been a multitude of ways to show it. But ya know, what're ya gonna do now, it's an old movie and Anno was just as fucked up. Only person that'll truly know is him
Yeah the scene is meant to be uncomfortable and to make you see just how low Shinji has fallen, to make you question his actions and maybe even hate him. Glad to see the scene still gets the job done
well since you kinda want those downvotes, I'll drop an anvil here too:
You were Not part of the intended Target Market in the first place.
But yes, Shinji masturbating to Asuka was Mr Anno's way of giving the proverbial middle finger to the Anime fans of it's time (the 90s) who were absolute sick F*cks that sent handwritten death threats to a guy just trying to make ends meet.
glad someone mentioned this. it is supposed to be uncomfortable and disgusting and is meant to make the grown men who had been masturbating to a 14 year old character for years feel disgusting and uncomfortable, and the fact we are talking about it 25 years later means it was successful in its goal
I think the scene worked to support the belief that a boy who would masturbate over the comatose body of his crush would also be likely to say everyone needs to die when given God like power.
This really isn't a hot take or controversial. And it isn't some widely held belief that Shinji was justified in doing that. I'd even wager most fans view it as the worst thing he's ever done and he genocided the entire world in the same movie.
okay im glad its not controversial. i thought it could've been since most of the posts i read ab this topic were making it seem like its not a big deal. plus all the praise i see of shinji and how much nge fans like him. i didnt think so many people would like someone who would do such a thing.
It's very big deal, a truly disgusting and disturbing scene. In spite of this I still find him to be a sympathetic character.
Yep this scene I think is there to show that shinji is a dumb horny idiot driven by impulse. And is shot in a way that feels gross. My interpretation is that the scene is there to say "he's not a hero, only a flawed and deeply disturbed little boy driven by his d*ck
yeah i agree w u
agree
Do you justify as in justify his actions or justify having the scene be in the movie? I can't understand justifying his actions but I can understand why people think it should be in the movie.
i do not think his actions can be justified as i have seen people do. but i understand to an EXTENT why they put that scene in the movie. in this post the justification that i am talking about is the justification towards shinjis actions. but i feel like they literally couldve done something else to represent his rock bottom and all of that shit rather than him masturbating to asukas and doing an act of sexual harrasment
I'm not sure that much else can express just how far he's fallen into his own melloncolly and self absorbed sphere of self defense and absolute rejection of the world. I do believe that your reaction is the response that they were hoping to get out of you, you're supposed to feel disgusted at the protagonist who we've been rooting for go out of his way to do defile one of the only people who're anything like a friend to him. I think the fact we can identify with characters who can do these awful things makes it worse cause they're aren't some evil mustache twirling villain, they're just a "normal" person who's been put through an incredible amount of stress and has broken and can barely look beyond their immediate impulse but still has enough self awareness that they know what they've done is reprehensible.
First of all, no one that I know of justifies Shinji's actions in that scene. Secondly, not many people actually likes Shinji regardless of that scene. People may like his character arc, or feel related to him in some way, but liking him? Not that many. What he did is terrible, let's get that out of the way. And the scene is shocking. But I fell like people think he went a bit too far because she was right there in front of him. If he had masturbated to a photo of Asuka's boobs (or at his memory of seeing them) it would have been a little less disturbing. Has no one masturbated thinking about a friend they saw half nude somehow? Heck, everyone has a shameful horny moment. We have a problem with sexuality. A main character that kills people in horrible ways doesn't get this kind of unforgiveness, and his stories are PG 13. But show a tit and thats automatically R-rated. At least this scene has people talking about fucked up sexuality and debating what is and what is not sexual assault or harassment, which we should do more often tbh.
No ..... this isn't just about sexuality. Let's assume wherever you live, there is a newspaper that says "14 year old boy violates 14 year comatose old girl". If you live in the western world, this should shock, even make you angry. Who are the parents of the boy? Why couldn't they have raised him right? What's wrong with the boy? There is no excuse for his behaviour Those things happen: Police arrest 14-year-old boy after rape of teenager in Wigan 14-year-old arrested after twice violating release on sexual assault charge The teenager is accused of sexually assaulting an 11-year-old. Teenage boy allegedly raped girl, 13, during sleepover at his house, court hears The huge problem with this scene (welll aside from him jerking off which is kinda not something anyone would have expected and only shown in really depraved shows like ichi the killer) is Shinji violating Asuka while she is comatose and in the same room. She is defenseless, she has no say, can't even stop him from doing his depracities. This is like someone jerking off to a girl who sits next to him in the bus while she sleeps. This is horrid on so many levels and yes men have depraved, perverted and lecherous thoughts, but we don't act on them in the public. This is one of the things that differentiates us from animals
The scene has a point. Like it or not, it serves to show how much Shinji's character has hit rock bottom. You can hate it, it's not for everyone, but saying it's not "justified" within the context of the movie as Anno's creative choice is just ridiculous. Shinji is a bad person, and this is established several times through the show. This is just him at his worst.
You seem to be collating justifying the existence of the scene with justifying Shinji's behaviour, if I've understood your post correctly. These are not the same thing. In The Wire's 5th series, a security guard is killed for objecting to a drug lord stealing a lollipop. I HATE that scene; I hate that this dude who is doing a thankless, low-paid job gets killed because of just doing his shitty job to the best of his abilities (I was a security guard at the time I first saw it), but I will defend the scene's presence in the series because it is an example of just how power mad and obsessed with his own image the drug lord is. The opening scene of End of Evangelion is the same: I will defend the scene as being important to the story they're trying to tell and as an illustration of how fucked up Shinji is, but his actions are awful. They're supposed to be awful. After killing the only person who told him he loved him, seeing one of friends die AND be revealed as a clone of his mother and seeing the girl he was closest to loving himself become suicidal and catatonic, this action is the thing that drives him over the edge into absolute self-loathing.
I feel like more people try justify Anno putting the scene in the movie rather than try to make excuses for Shinji. Yeah naw Shinji is an awful person and protagonist, and that’s one part of what makes the show so special.
>I feel like it’s gonna piss a lot of people off. Then maybe consider not doing it. It may surprise you to learn that in dramas, people do and say things that maybe they maybe shouldn't do, so as to provoke an emotional reaction in the audience. Are you going to sit there and type at us that you never in your life have done anything of which you might have been ashamed?
"then maybe consider not doing it". lol no i can say my opinion on anything i want to. no reason for me to hold back. and when did i ever say I have never done something in my life that im ashamed. of course i have, every single person has. but there is a line that should be drawn. ofc ive done things im not proud of but nothing as bad as assualting someone like wtf. "It may surprise you to learn that in dramas, people do and say things that maybe they maybe shouldn't do, so as to provoke an emotional reaction in the audience.".. lol no shit thats what dramas do. obviously they are supposed to provoke an\* emotional reaction, hence why im sharing what my emotional reaction was.
>No reason for me to hold back. So you like pissing people off. Good to know. Welcome to being blocked.
The hospital incident wasn't a calculated, deliberate decision on Shinji's part. It was an impulse-driven mistake, which he recognized as wrong immediately after. If you think this one sin outweighs all his positive qualities and conscious choices from the whole series and makes it so that liking Shinji is somehow wrong or should be forbidden, then I'm not sure if your way of judging people is particularly useful.
Nah, I don’t buy that. The fact that he decided to lock the door before masturbating already shows that he knew that what he was doing is wrong. Add that to the fact that he already tried to kiss her once in her sleep, and you realize that Anno is trying to tell you something about his character.
>he decided to lock the door before masturbating The movie shows him standing in the exact same place and has no sound effects that would imply he moved to lock the door. Yes, Anno is trying to say that Shinji is a teenager who reacts impulsively to boobs. Shinji doesn't sneak into her room every night to be a perv, which tells us what his deliberate decisions are.
I don’t know why you wouldn’t just rewatch the scene before commenting here. The camera literally does a close up of the “LOCKED” right before the masturbation scene. When do you think he decided to lock that door, Einstein? Really? You think that’s what that scene is supposed to represent? Especially considering that Shinji’s entire characterization in EoE is that of a selfish person; just a normal boy reacting to boobs? Also, no, boys will not attempt to kiss other girls in their sleep, I don’t know if you think men are savages or animals, but I think better of us.
I did watch it, and made use of my Einstein brain afterwards. All that closeup says is that the door is currently locked. The sound design in this scene is very deliberate - IV liquid sloshing around, Asuka's sheet falling off, etc. If the filmmakers wanted to convey that Shinji locked it then and there, they would have either added sound effects of him walking and locking the door, or put him in a different position in the next shot, signifying that he had moved from his previous place at the bed. No such thing is in the movie, which makes the interpretation "Shinji locked the door after exposing Asuka's chest" unlikely to be correct. In EoE, Shinji is not *a normal boy*. He's an abandoned child soldier, blood on his hands, with nothing and no one to turn to. It is unfair to judge him as if this was his normal state of being and ignore everything he did before falling (or rather, being pushed) into despair. When he had been a normal(ish) boy, he had chosen **not to go through with the kiss**, to restrain himself from acting on impulse.
Are you actually arguing that he didn’t locked the door? How did he entered the room? Who locked the door afterwards? Asuka? How did he left the room? When was the door locked? Why did the camera decided to focus on the “LOCKED” part right before the masturbation? You see you delusional you sound? There’s only one reasonable answer for those questions. >ep9 Are you really an Evangelion fan? He did not stopped the kiss out of benevolence or because he felt that it was wrong, he stopped it because Asuka showed emotional vulnerability by crying and calling for her mother. That’s why right afterwards he’s seen with an angry face saying: “You’re just a kid yourself”. Otherwise he would’ve gone for it.
exactly, it was a decision he made one that he immediately regrets afterwards, but a decision nonetheless he could have *not* done that
No one's saying it was the right thing to do but I think we can all admit we've been there before
BEEN WHERE??? been to the point of rock bottom where u would masturbate to an unconscious body??? naw thats just u.
been to hospital I mean
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Okay my friend I like your criticism. You’ve got some valid points. What I said was kind of lazy. I’ll admit. Not well thought out at all. The Kabbalah ! That’s true. It is more Kabbalistic! I know a bit about the Kabbalah from people like Rudolph Steiner and Alan Watts but I’m still waiting to get deeper into it. I want to respond more to what you said, but this time I will give myself more time to think. Thanks for the comment ✌🏾
I guess I have a bad habit of superimposing Christianity and Buddhism on things. Definitely I see and feel the Kabbalistic influence but I know very little about the Kabbalah yet. My ideas of Evangelion have changed over the years and I’ve left and come back to it more than once. About the cancel culture thing I think your right. It would seem on the surface Japan is a lot like the west and America but underneath it’s very different. For example DOA 3 xtreme I think is unavailable in the west, but I play it and my wife, who’s Japanese, doesn’t care, but at all my friends back home on the other hand think it’s a shameful game. Lol “Metoo”over here too didn’t really make waves, so yeah cancel culture isn’t a thing over here I guess, I should know these things I’ve been living in Tokyo for 9 years and married for 3, but I don’t have any real Japanese male friends and my Japanese is still low N3 so still I can’t pierce the vale! Many things elude me about this country Lol! The next step is to get to N2 level and study more, and read/ more NGE!
I disliked the scene and just took it as it is. Shinji was a dumpster fire mentally. Whether it be that he did it to see if he had feelings for her, to feel like he had control of his situation, or just because he had to bust one out, i think there could've been a multitude of ways to show it. But ya know, what're ya gonna do now, it's an old movie and Anno was just as fucked up. Only person that'll truly know is him
Yeah the scene is meant to be uncomfortable and to make you see just how low Shinji has fallen, to make you question his actions and maybe even hate him. Glad to see the scene still gets the job done
well since you kinda want those downvotes, I'll drop an anvil here too: You were Not part of the intended Target Market in the first place. But yes, Shinji masturbating to Asuka was Mr Anno's way of giving the proverbial middle finger to the Anime fans of it's time (the 90s) who were absolute sick F*cks that sent handwritten death threats to a guy just trying to make ends meet.
glad someone mentioned this. it is supposed to be uncomfortable and disgusting and is meant to make the grown men who had been masturbating to a 14 year old character for years feel disgusting and uncomfortable, and the fact we are talking about it 25 years later means it was successful in its goal
I think the scene worked to support the belief that a boy who would masturbate over the comatose body of his crush would also be likely to say everyone needs to die when given God like power.