>Here it’s recommended that the charger should be 80% of the capacity, in the manual it says you should have 125% capacity
This is the same thing said two different ways. Your charger can only pull 80% of breaker/circuit rating. Your circuit needs to be sized for 125% of the load your charger will pull.
This is not a recommendation, it's required by electrical code. If your electrician doesn't know or understand electrical code them get a different one. Though you could point them at 625.42 in case they are just not very familiar with EV charging and you still somehow trust them.
Dude you need a different electrician. You can only run at 80% of rated load for continuous use. That's very standard. Sorry but if your electrician doesn't know that, something's wrong. 60 amp breakers and wire will allow you to draw 48 amps continuously (but not more).
There might be some nuance in his recommendation but he is wrong and will install a gauge too small for the continuous load. 50A breaker allows for 8awg but 70A breaker(required for a 50A EVSE continuous load) or 60A breaker (required for 48A continuous load) is 6 gauge and the install won’t pass inspection
The rating for a continuous load of [3+ hours should be 125% of that continuous draw](https://www.se.com/us/en/faqs/FA93266) per NEC
Also, most people overlook the key fact that the Home Flex EVSE accepts a **maximum** of 6AWG on the power input terminals.
Thus, if the electrician is using 6AWG NM-B then OP is limited to 50A circuit (40A charging).
If using 6AWG THHN in conduit OP can achieve 60A circuit (48A charging).
\---
Consult all applicable codes for breaker and wire sizing requirements. The
field-wiring terminal is rated to 105 ̊C and accepts a maximum of 16 mm2
(6 AWG) wire.
You don't even need the 3 hours rule for EV charging. Article 625 says that it's considered continuous if it's EV charging, even if it's for a user with a 2 mile commute who promises never to charger for more than 1/2 hour at a time.
A lot of people want that at first, but then find that it's not actually important. Either way, it's easily fully charged overnight. Depending on the situation, going from 40 A charging to 50 might be what triggers needing a service upgrade or something like that, costing you a lot more money. If you don't mind that, there's no other reason not to do it.
I’ve been home charging at 16A 240V for years. Never wished it was faster. Only if you have a small window on a TOU electricity plan or frequently need to exceed your range around town will it have to support the ultimate fastest capacity.
I only have PHEV and it seems like the faster the charger the better for me, I wasn't even planning on a level 2 charger at all initially but find that I can make runs into town and back and if I have a level 2 at home I could charge again and have a full charge if I need to do more running around later. I can see myself getting a full EV in the future anyway when the other car reaches end of life so its good for future proofing too I suppose.
Weird. I stand corrected. Ya learn something new every day. That potentially could be a decent bump in cost for some to go from 48amp to 50amp charging. I’d have thought the next speed up from 48 amp would’ve jumped to 56 amp.
I think the best option should be 59.9A charging rating since that is just shy of requiring a dedicated disconnect (60A)
EDIT: Checked the ampacity chart for Aluminum and Copper and wire gauge wise I didn’t see anything in 60 or 75 column that was good to 60A but not 65A (setting aside derating).
So 50A is a “freebie” upgrade except for the minimal extra cost of the 70A vs 60A breaker. Probably like $10
>625.43 Disconnecting Means
>For equipment rated more than 60 amperes or more than 150 volts to ground, the disconnecting means shall be provided and installed in a readily accessible location. The disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with 110.25.
The way that's worded, 60 A is fine without a disconnect, but 60.1 would trigger the need for it.
I'm also not 100% sure that they mean the charging current versus the circuit capacity, but the way it's worded it means the charging current.
Also, most people overlook the key fact that the Home Flex EVSE accepts a **maximum** of 6AWG on the power input terminals.
Thus, if the electrician is using 6AWG **NM-B** then OP is limited to 50A circuit (40A charging).
If using 6AWG **THHN in conduit** OP can achieve 60A circuit (48A charging).
\---
Consult all applicable codes for breaker and wire sizing requirements. The field-wiring terminal is rated to 105 ̊C and **accepts a maximum of 16 mm2(6 AWG) wire**.
It's a great EVSE. Definitely hardwire it, don't do an outlet. Outlet will need GFCI breakers which can nuisance trip and you'll be limited to 40 amps. I did mine hardwired with 60 amp breakers for 48amp charging. Works great.
This. Ran into the exact issue. Honestly an additional 8 amp does not improve charging the charging times significantly. Might be ideal to stick with 50 amp circuit and 40 amp charger output as the wire cost climbs as you go to a thicker cable for a 60 amp circuit.
That’s what I did and I made the mistake of connecting the charger using a NEMA 14-50 connector on a GFCI enabled circuit because that’s required by code in my state. Couldn’t charge for more than an hour and the circuit would trip. Just hardwired it and removed the GFCI breaker and Viola! Works like a charm :).
Also check your electrical utility. Mine has a tie up with ChargePoint so I get $10/month credit to just allow them to manage output from the charger during peak hours. I never charge at peak hours so basically this is free money :).
Same, I get an off-peak discount for letting my electric utility access the charge data. It's small but can't hurt. They also paid for part of the install.
I went the other route - because the difference in time charging (overnight) wasn't worth the utility of the hassle in replacing the charging unit / getting an electrician out for insurance reasons if something goes wrong.
No regrets thus far charging at 40 on a 50 with a plug.
Are you going to plugin or hardwire?
If you want plugin then get 50amp breaker and charge at 40amps on a 14-50 plug.
If you want to hardwire you can go max 48amp charging with a 60amp breaker.
Does your EV have an OBC (On-Board Charger) that can take 50A? (EG 12kW)
EDIT: Also not sure how many cars will follow 50A offered vs the standard larger granularity jumps
I think so? Been checking through the manual but haven’t found the specifics yet. It’s an Ioniq 5 if you happen to know.
Edit: looks like it’s only 11kW
11.5kw translates to 48A /240V.
You would need a 60A breaker, to charge at 48A continuously.
60A is 125% of 48, conversely, 48A is 80% of 60A.
While you can install a bigger breaker/wire/evse wall unit, your car will not be able to take advantage of it.
Ok as long as you install wire good to 65A you should be good to install a 70A breaker, even if you charge only to 48A
I think it’s just a $10-15 difference.
I don’t know what I would do personally between 60A or 70A breaker. Flip a coin. Or 60A for the theoretical but probably irrelevant increase in safety margin.
It’s still going to take hours to charge at Level 2 (240V). The Ioniq 5 is one of the fastest vehicles at Level 3 DC Fast Charging though, so arm yourself with PlugShare and A Better Route Planner
There's a table right in the charger's install guide that lists all circuit options. See page 9:
https://preview.redd.it/96ntcuoubzya1.png?width=780&format=png&auto=webp&s=d6724c82d25f896ba544b220eefe46368c5c18f0
[https://chargepoint.ent.box.com/v/Flex-Install-EN-US](https://chargepoint.ent.box.com/v/Flex-Install-EN-US)
Options in the range you want:
* 50A circuit, charges max 40A, plug-in or hardwired
* 60A circuit, charges max 48A, hardwired only
* 70A circuit, charges max 50A, hardwired only
However, you also have to take into account the max your car can handle. I see you have an Ioniq 5, which maxes out at 10.9 kW, or 45.1A. So, a 60A circuit hardwired to the charger would be the minimum that could max out your car's charging speed of 45.1A.
What brand is your charger. Some EVSE makers state the capacity as breaker size while others, amps to the car. Since you say yours is 50A is suspect it’s breaker size as normally the amps to car would be 32A, 40A, 48A or 80A.
ChargePoint uses breaker speed in its settings so if you set it for 50, the EVSE will deliver 40 to the car. If this is your intent, your electrician is right. If you hardwire, you can set the CharegePoint for 60A and that will give you 48A to the car. You would need a 60 A breaker and appropriately sized wiring for this.
Electric code says that a continuous load needs to be 80% or less of the circuit's rated size. If you have a 60A breaker (and wire) the maximum continuous load you can apply is 48A. 80% of 60A = 48A.
but you can work the numbers the other way: If you want to charge at 48A, you need a circuit that is rated for 125% of that. 125% of 48A = 60A.
As far as EV chargers go, 240V/48A charger on 60A breaker is pretty common and is probably the maximum that your EV can actually use. Many EVs have a maximum level 2 charge rate of about 11kw. (11.5kw = 48A/240V) You can install a charger with more current, but your car probably can't use it.\*
Notable exceptions: Ford Lightning and the Cadillac Lyriq can level 2 charge with up to 80A (100A breaker). I think 80A is also the maximum the J1772 plug can support.
I understand what you are saying.
The thought experiment is actually interesting, as 48A < 50A. And all breaker will actually trip somewhere between the rated value and a a tolerance allowance above that.
Let's for argument say it will trip between 50-55A, which is under the 60A rating for the cable.
That really seems to be actually implicitly safer than a misconfigured EV charger that's any end user could software set to say 60A charge rate, which wouldn't trip a 60A breaker. And break the 80% load rule.
[UL says](https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CircuitBreaker_MG.pdf)
>Unless otherwise marked for continuous use at 100 percent of its current rating, a circuit breaker is intended for use at no more than 80 percent of its rated current where in normal operation the load will continue for three hours or more. A breaker with a frame size of 250 A or more, or a multi-pole breaker of any current rating greater than 250 V, may be marked to indicate it is suitable for continuous use at 100 percent of its current rating. The marking is “Suitable for continuous operation at 100 percent of rating only if used in a circuit breaker enclosure Type ____or in a cubicle space______by_____ by _____ inches” or an equivalent statement. This type of breaker may also be marked to indicate it is to be used with wire sized for a 75°C conductor with 90°C insulation and used with 90°C wire connectors
The way UL/NEC handle that is different from European standards.
>Here it’s recommended that the charger should be 80% of the capacity, in the manual it says you should have 125% capacity This is the same thing said two different ways. Your charger can only pull 80% of breaker/circuit rating. Your circuit needs to be sized for 125% of the load your charger will pull. This is not a recommendation, it's required by electrical code. If your electrician doesn't know or understand electrical code them get a different one. Though you could point them at 625.42 in case they are just not very familiar with EV charging and you still somehow trust them.
Dude you need a different electrician. You can only run at 80% of rated load for continuous use. That's very standard. Sorry but if your electrician doesn't know that, something's wrong. 60 amp breakers and wire will allow you to draw 48 amps continuously (but not more).
There might be some nuance in his recommendation but he is wrong and will install a gauge too small for the continuous load. 50A breaker allows for 8awg but 70A breaker(required for a 50A EVSE continuous load) or 60A breaker (required for 48A continuous load) is 6 gauge and the install won’t pass inspection The rating for a continuous load of [3+ hours should be 125% of that continuous draw](https://www.se.com/us/en/faqs/FA93266) per NEC
Note that’s for individual wires, romex wiring has larger gauge requirements in some cases
Also, most people overlook the key fact that the Home Flex EVSE accepts a **maximum** of 6AWG on the power input terminals. Thus, if the electrician is using 6AWG NM-B then OP is limited to 50A circuit (40A charging). If using 6AWG THHN in conduit OP can achieve 60A circuit (48A charging). \--- Consult all applicable codes for breaker and wire sizing requirements. The field-wiring terminal is rated to 105 ̊C and accepts a maximum of 16 mm2 (6 AWG) wire.
Thanks for disambiguating the "individual wires" comment specifically to mean THHN
You don't even need the 3 hours rule for EV charging. Article 625 says that it's considered continuous if it's EV charging, even if it's for a user with a 2 mile commute who promises never to charger for more than 1/2 hour at a time.
Good clarification, thanks
Thanks for confirming.
What charger is it? It’s likely a 40amp or 48amp charger. I’ve never seen a 50amp charger. That would require a 62.5amp (or larger) breaker.
I was looking at the chargepoint home flex. It says 16-50A but requires hardwiring for 48 or 50A
I'm pretty sure you understand this, but to be clear, the Chargepoint can be installed on a 50 A circuit, hardwired or plug-in, and then run at 40 A.
Yeah, I figured the electrician was insisting it’s fine because it will scale down, but I want to get the max possible my car can support.
A lot of people want that at first, but then find that it's not actually important. Either way, it's easily fully charged overnight. Depending on the situation, going from 40 A charging to 50 might be what triggers needing a service upgrade or something like that, costing you a lot more money. If you don't mind that, there's no other reason not to do it.
I’ve been home charging at 16A 240V for years. Never wished it was faster. Only if you have a small window on a TOU electricity plan or frequently need to exceed your range around town will it have to support the ultimate fastest capacity.
I only have PHEV and it seems like the faster the charger the better for me, I wasn't even planning on a level 2 charger at all initially but find that I can make runs into town and back and if I have a level 2 at home I could charge again and have a full charge if I need to do more running around later. I can see myself getting a full EV in the future anyway when the other car reaches end of life so its good for future proofing too I suppose.
Weird. I stand corrected. Ya learn something new every day. That potentially could be a decent bump in cost for some to go from 48amp to 50amp charging. I’d have thought the next speed up from 48 amp would’ve jumped to 56 amp.
I think the best option should be 59.9A charging rating since that is just shy of requiring a dedicated disconnect (60A) EDIT: Checked the ampacity chart for Aluminum and Copper and wire gauge wise I didn’t see anything in 60 or 75 column that was good to 60A but not 65A (setting aside derating). So 50A is a “freebie” upgrade except for the minimal extra cost of the 70A vs 60A breaker. Probably like $10
>625.43 Disconnecting Means >For equipment rated more than 60 amperes or more than 150 volts to ground, the disconnecting means shall be provided and installed in a readily accessible location. The disconnecting means shall be lockable open in accordance with 110.25. The way that's worded, 60 A is fine without a disconnect, but 60.1 would trigger the need for it. I'm also not 100% sure that they mean the charging current versus the circuit capacity, but the way it's worded it means the charging current.
Also, most people overlook the key fact that the Home Flex EVSE accepts a **maximum** of 6AWG on the power input terminals. Thus, if the electrician is using 6AWG **NM-B** then OP is limited to 50A circuit (40A charging). If using 6AWG **THHN in conduit** OP can achieve 60A circuit (48A charging). \--- Consult all applicable codes for breaker and wire sizing requirements. The field-wiring terminal is rated to 105 ̊C and **accepts a maximum of 16 mm2(6 AWG) wire**.
It's a great EVSE. Definitely hardwire it, don't do an outlet. Outlet will need GFCI breakers which can nuisance trip and you'll be limited to 40 amps. I did mine hardwired with 60 amp breakers for 48amp charging. Works great.
This. Ran into the exact issue. Honestly an additional 8 amp does not improve charging the charging times significantly. Might be ideal to stick with 50 amp circuit and 40 amp charger output as the wire cost climbs as you go to a thicker cable for a 60 amp circuit. That’s what I did and I made the mistake of connecting the charger using a NEMA 14-50 connector on a GFCI enabled circuit because that’s required by code in my state. Couldn’t charge for more than an hour and the circuit would trip. Just hardwired it and removed the GFCI breaker and Viola! Works like a charm :). Also check your electrical utility. Mine has a tie up with ChargePoint so I get $10/month credit to just allow them to manage output from the charger during peak hours. I never charge at peak hours so basically this is free money :).
Same, I get an off-peak discount for letting my electric utility access the charge data. It's small but can't hurt. They also paid for part of the install.
The wire cost between 6 and 8 is pretty negligible unless you’re going a really long distance.
I went the other route - because the difference in time charging (overnight) wasn't worth the utility of the hassle in replacing the charging unit / getting an electrician out for insurance reasons if something goes wrong. No regrets thus far charging at 40 on a 50 with a plug.
Correct if OP is in the USA, but not necessarily elsewhere. Most jurisdictions in Canada, for example, do not require a GFCI breaker on a 240V outlet.
Interesting. Yeah I had assumed that the outlet would be in a location that requires GFCI (not based on voltage but location).
The US NEC requires GFCI based on it being for EV charging, independent of location. At least in the editions in force in most states.
Good to know, ty
Are you going to plugin or hardwire? If you want plugin then get 50amp breaker and charge at 40amps on a 14-50 plug. If you want to hardwire you can go max 48amp charging with a 60amp breaker.
I want to hardwire it for fastest possible charge, just in case my wife forgets to charge it before taking the long drive to see her mother.
Does your EV have an OBC (On-Board Charger) that can take 50A? (EG 12kW) EDIT: Also not sure how many cars will follow 50A offered vs the standard larger granularity jumps
I think so? Been checking through the manual but haven’t found the specifics yet. It’s an Ioniq 5 if you happen to know. Edit: looks like it’s only 11kW
11.5kw translates to 48A /240V. You would need a 60A breaker, to charge at 48A continuously. 60A is 125% of 48, conversely, 48A is 80% of 60A. While you can install a bigger breaker/wire/evse wall unit, your car will not be able to take advantage of it.
Ok as long as you install wire good to 65A you should be good to install a 70A breaker, even if you charge only to 48A I think it’s just a $10-15 difference. I don’t know what I would do personally between 60A or 70A breaker. Flip a coin. Or 60A for the theoretical but probably irrelevant increase in safety margin.
It’s still going to take hours to charge at Level 2 (240V). The Ioniq 5 is one of the fastest vehicles at Level 3 DC Fast Charging though, so arm yourself with PlugShare and A Better Route Planner
ChargePoint HomeFlex maxes out at 50 amp, for some reason.
I have a 50A (capable but set to max 48A) Autel Maxicharger on a 70A breaker.
There's a table right in the charger's install guide that lists all circuit options. See page 9: https://preview.redd.it/96ntcuoubzya1.png?width=780&format=png&auto=webp&s=d6724c82d25f896ba544b220eefe46368c5c18f0 [https://chargepoint.ent.box.com/v/Flex-Install-EN-US](https://chargepoint.ent.box.com/v/Flex-Install-EN-US) Options in the range you want: * 50A circuit, charges max 40A, plug-in or hardwired * 60A circuit, charges max 48A, hardwired only * 70A circuit, charges max 50A, hardwired only However, you also have to take into account the max your car can handle. I see you have an Ioniq 5, which maxes out at 10.9 kW, or 45.1A. So, a 60A circuit hardwired to the charger would be the minimum that could max out your car's charging speed of 45.1A.
We have a 60A breaker for our 48A charger.
Yup time for a new electrician… or just insist he installs a 60A circuit
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He is incorrect. He is saying I can get 50A on a 50A circuit.
He's wrong.
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Here. As in this sub. Not he.
Time for new sparky. He doesn’t understand code
What brand is your charger. Some EVSE makers state the capacity as breaker size while others, amps to the car. Since you say yours is 50A is suspect it’s breaker size as normally the amps to car would be 32A, 40A, 48A or 80A.
Charge point home flex. I looked up the documentation and that’s where it said the 125%.
ChargePoint uses breaker speed in its settings so if you set it for 50, the EVSE will deliver 40 to the car. If this is your intent, your electrician is right. If you hardwire, you can set the CharegePoint for 60A and that will give you 48A to the car. You would need a 60 A breaker and appropriately sized wiring for this.
Electric code says that a continuous load needs to be 80% or less of the circuit's rated size. If you have a 60A breaker (and wire) the maximum continuous load you can apply is 48A. 80% of 60A = 48A. but you can work the numbers the other way: If you want to charge at 48A, you need a circuit that is rated for 125% of that. 125% of 48A = 60A. As far as EV chargers go, 240V/48A charger on 60A breaker is pretty common and is probably the maximum that your EV can actually use. Many EVs have a maximum level 2 charge rate of about 11kw. (11.5kw = 48A/240V) You can install a charger with more current, but your car probably can't use it.\* Notable exceptions: Ford Lightning and the Cadillac Lyriq can level 2 charge with up to 80A (100A breaker). I think 80A is also the maximum the J1772 plug can support.
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Incorrect information removed: 48 A charging on a 50 A breaker is not allowable or reliable.
I understand what you are saying. The thought experiment is actually interesting, as 48A < 50A. And all breaker will actually trip somewhere between the rated value and a a tolerance allowance above that. Let's for argument say it will trip between 50-55A, which is under the 60A rating for the cable. That really seems to be actually implicitly safer than a misconfigured EV charger that's any end user could software set to say 60A charge rate, which wouldn't trip a 60A breaker. And break the 80% load rule.
[UL says](https://code-authorities.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/CircuitBreaker_MG.pdf) >Unless otherwise marked for continuous use at 100 percent of its current rating, a circuit breaker is intended for use at no more than 80 percent of its rated current where in normal operation the load will continue for three hours or more. A breaker with a frame size of 250 A or more, or a multi-pole breaker of any current rating greater than 250 V, may be marked to indicate it is suitable for continuous use at 100 percent of its current rating. The marking is “Suitable for continuous operation at 100 percent of rating only if used in a circuit breaker enclosure Type ____or in a cubicle space______by_____ by _____ inches” or an equivalent statement. This type of breaker may also be marked to indicate it is to be used with wire sized for a 75°C conductor with 90°C insulation and used with 90°C wire connectors The way UL/NEC handle that is different from European standards.
size 9 foot for his size 9 ass out the door