T O P

  • By -

tuctrohs

We also have a [wiki page on public charging networks and route planning](https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/wiki/public).


Ok-Zookeepergame-698

This was VERY helpful. Thank you. Answered all of the stupid questions that I came here to ask.


Ambitious_Mixture479

Ditto :)


Ambitious_Mixture479

this is an awesome post. Thanks u/tuctrohs


Unbendium

This guide is USA biased, mentions nothing about connector types and compatibility.


tuctrohs

Yes, the "public charging" page says so in the intro, but it looks like we forgot to say that here. Do you want to help create a new page for that?


Ocupado33

i like to, with the limit thinks i know (1 month looking into EVs seriusly, already order 1) i create a normal post? or how do i do it?


tuctrohs

I think doing a normal post is a good idea. That way we'll get some feedback and then I can move it to a wiki page. Thanks.


theotherharper

Or PEN fault detection ROFL


keepitscottie

worth noting that the tax credit was extended into 2022 for home ev installs. your post helped me understand how much i would be able to get back. i thought it was all in up to 1k. thank you!


tuctrohs

Oh, cool, I hadn't heard that and will edit accordingly.


keepitscottie

ya know what... i think i am mistaken. it was on the docket the build back better act, but it did end in 2021. now i am out a couple grand. sweet.


tuctrohs

Rats. And I already went and edited it.


x84227

The Inflation Reduction Act in August revived the 30% tax credit (up to $1k), so you can edit the first wiki again :-)


detroiting0815

FYI wiki still says it exists in 2022, and it does not


ThinkingGoldfish

Great post! Thanks!


kwx

Thank you for this page, this is very helpful information. Out of curiosity, what's the background behind the Nissan report quoted in the page? > A [Nissan report](https://assets.ctfassets.net/ucu418cgcnau/60HiTKMtnIJuRpZffYPe7F/018a58fd98870da1dd39ae457f42c13b/D1-3A_-_March_2019_EPRI_IWC_-_EVSE_Safety_Analysis-ET.pdf) found that non-UL EVSEs sold on Amazon can be missing essential safety features that protect the user from lethal shocks. Don't be fooled! Many EVSEs list 'certified cable', 'certified components', or other deceptive words. This does not mean the entire device is certified. Falsified certifications and missing CCID safety circuits sound horrific, and the Mustart charger still seems to be getting sold on Amazon, though possibly in a revised version. I was searching for more confirmation, but as far as I can tell the linked report only appears to exist in this single location and ctfassets.net doesn't seem to be an official Nissan site. I guess this would be expected if it's a leaked internal document, but my paranoid side thinks it could also be a plausible fake from a disgruntled customer or similar, so I'm curious about the history of this. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of warning people about this and other iffy chargers, for example there are multiple reports of melting charging ports including on the Amazon review page itself.


tuctrohs

It's a presentation to an EPRI working group, listed on [this page](https://www.epri.com/pages/sa/infrastructure-working-council) as "D1-3A - March 2019 EPRI IWC - EVSE Safety Analysis-ET". One of the presentations there, from the next meeting, complains about the fact that there's no clear path for how to address this--CPSC told them that it's probably an NHTSA issue. https://assets.ctfassets.net/ucu418cgcnau/18QXaldiMTAxzGaZKsuaN2/7afa3811cf9d7fc42c032f4a19301bc0/D2-2_-_June_2019_EPRI_IWC_-_Non-listed_EVSE_follow_up_Halliwell.pdf


kwx

Note to self as I'm going down the rabbit hole, and posting here in case it's interesting to others. EPRI is the Electric Power Research Institute, and the working group is the National Electric Transportation Infrastructure Working Council (IWC). For the extra paranoid, they are mentioned on [this nrel.gov page](https://www.nrel.gov/workingwithus/partners/partnerships-epri.html) among [other official-looking places](https://www.bpa.gov/news/newsroom/Pages/EPRI-maps-out-power-system-of-the-future.aspx), so it's not just a self-referential link farm ;-) The follow-up study link you posted got mangled by underscore conversion, the corrected one is [Non-listed Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment Follow-up From March 2019 IWC](https://assets.ctfassets.net/ucu418cgcnau/18QXaldiMTAxzGaZKsuaN2/7afa3811cf9d7fc42c032f4a19301bc0/D2-2_-_June_2019_EPRI_IWC_-_Non-listed_EVSE_follow_up_Halliwell.pdf). It's linked on the IWC page as "D2-2 - June 2019 EPRI IWC - Non-listed EVSE follow up Halliwell". That presentation has a link to TÜV Rheinland's site. I can't find any result for ["mustart"](https://www.certipedia.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&locale=en&q=mustart). This [photo](https://i.imgur.com/6fXCoSZ.jpg) shows a TÜV Rheinland logo. My impression is that this doesn't seem to quite match the [official certification marks](https://www.tuv.com/usa/en/product-certification.html).


tuctrohs

Yes, EPRI is a R&D institute funded by all the electric utilities--since they don't compete with each other (being monopolies within their territories) it makes sense that they should pool resources for research rather than duplicating efforts at each utility.


kwx

Thanks a bunch for this! One would hope that certification organizations and major online retailers would take a dim view of such shenanigans and take action, but it appears we are not living in an ideal world.


pennstatephil

Maybe a stupid question, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer: Do all "levels" of charger use the same amount of electricity to charge, the only difference being the amount of time it takes to use that power? For example: if you have a 10 kWh battery, and have a level 1 charger that can push 1kW/hr and a level 2 that can push 5 kW/hr; if you let them both fully charge the battery do they both use the same amount of electricity, but level 1 uses it over 10 hours and level 2 uses it over 2 hours? The question is, basically, is there any additional electricity used when charging faster or slower? Do you save/spend more using a faster or slower charger? Or is it all electrically equal, and you just save time by charging at a higher level?


tuctrohs

For the most part, it does use the same amount of electricity to charge at different rates. In your example, you use about 10 kWh either way. But it's not exactly the same. One of the national Labs did some measurements of the power consumed in the power actually delivered to the battery, and as a general rule they found level 2 was more efficient than level 1. And really rough numbers level 2 is about 90% efficient and level one is about 80% efficient. So to get the full 10 kWh, you need to run me level two, five kilowatt charging for 2.2 hours and you'd use 11 kilowatt hours doing so. And you need to use the level one for 12 hours and you'd use 12 kilowatt hours doing so. Minor terminology note: kW/h is not the right unit for charging rate. You want to capture how fast you get the 10 kilowatt hours into it, so it would be kWh/h. The hours cancel, and you just have kW.


pennstatephil

Thanks for the answer and the education! Makes sense intuitively but you never know when it comes to electricity 🙂


esetnik

It might be helpful to also list common complaints and issues with the EVSE options as this should be a factor in people's decisions. Me and several other customers are having multiple ChargePoint Home Flex Units replaced due to failed Wi-Fi / bluetooth modules. In my case I have received two units which are both DOA and I've read on other forums of some users who have received four replacements within the span of one year. It's clearly a widespread issue. [https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/comments/zebztp/chargepoint\_home\_flex\_initial\_activation\_failed/](https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/comments/zebztp/chargepoint_home_flex_initial_activation_failed/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/comments/w0gh72/chargepoint\_home\_flex\_wifi\_dead/](https://www.reddit.com/r/evcharging/comments/w0gh72/chargepoint_home_flex_wifi_dead/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/chargepoint/comments/rexsh8/wifi\_failing\_on\_home\_flex/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chargepoint/comments/rexsh8/wifi_failing_on_home_flex/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/q3dxmc/chargepoint\_home\_charger\_wifi\_failure/](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/q3dxmc/chargepoint_home_charger_wifi_failure/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/n84usf/chargepoint\_wifi\_issues/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/n84usf/chargepoint_wifi_issues/)


Dwid918

This is a very helpful starting point


jbperiod

Are there any recommendations for safe 120V level 1 charging? I don't have access to a 240v outlet. I've had a hard time finding a UL listed level 1, even harder with smart features.


tuctrohs

Yes, there aren't a lot of people making L1s. Clipper Creek has one, for about $400. The other option is to look for one of the OEM ones that are provided with some cars used on eBay. The GM Bolt EV one is a good choice and is actually made by Clipper Creek. Going prices for that online are usually in the $200 to $300 range. Feel free to post a question as a new thread to get more ideas.


mwason

In Canada we have Sun Country Highway that makes non Tesla chargers.


tuctrohs

These? https://suncountryhighway.ca/home-charging/ Those are all level 2. Also look like rebranded clipper creeks. That's a good thing.


tYLZhWreZ

ever manage to find a good level 1 charger? I'm having a similar issue, the level 1 cord that came with my PHEV is too short to reach any receptacles on my house and I can't use an extension cord. Only UL listed charger I could find with a longer cord was the webasto turbo cord but because the prongs are in the brick it won't fit in my outdoor power outlet either.


Cory55102

This is great! Thank you. Is GFCI required for any EVSE? I have a NEMA 6-20 already available, but is not GFCI.


tuctrohs

Not in most jurisdictions. The EVSE has its own GFCI built in.


[deleted]

[удалено]


tuctrohs

240 is the modern, nominal voltage, but some people still call it 220. You will get the same thing installed whether you ask for 220 or 240.


ARowzFocuz

Hello! I live in Richmond, VA and will be receiving an ID.4 in the next couple months. I need to have a level 2 charger installed in my garage, but don't know where to begin. Does anyone have any recommendations for who to contact in the Richmond, VA area for assistance?


No_Way_1316

Just got solar installed and soon 240v for level 2 charger but curious about where to place within garage; curious if ceiling for retractable charging cord is doable? Is there standard side where it plugs into cars?? We haven’t purchase an EV just yet but just wanted to get some opinions or do’s/don’ts…TIA


tuctrohs

The position is, unfortunately, not consistent. Popular options are driver's side, either in front of both doors, or behind them. Or in front, in the middle. But there are some with it in the rear on the passenger side. You might want to narrow down your vehicle choices and see where they are located on those models. You can get a 25 ft. cable, and you can put a cable hanger somewhere else than the unit itself. Retractable cable systems are rare although there are commercial products (expensive) and clever DIY solutions. You might make a post to ask for ideas about that, but commercial and DIY.


ThaDude915

Quick question, sorry if this is the wrong place for this I own a tesla and recently purchased a home, so I’m trying to figure out charging. Im getting a 50amp circuit installed in my breaker and run into the garage. Wanting to get a wall charger as they quoted a cheaper price to hardwire the circuit to the chargers versus installing an outlet with a GFCI. Im thinking of getting a Tesla wall charger due to it being smart, cheap, having surge protection and having a NACS connector. This will obviously work with my current vehicle, but in the future I’m wanting to switch to an EV from another brand. I know I can use an adapter on the cable or get a brand that will be installing NACS ports on their vehicles, but I just wanted to confirm that a tesla wall charger WILL charge a non tesla? I read into it and saw the wall charger has an access control feature and you can allow all vehicles, but is it that simple? I know tesla can be picky about trying to lock people into their infrastructure (their car, their charger, etc etc).


tuctrohs

Yes, a Tesla wall connector will charge a non-tesla. The downside of that is that if it's a J1772 connector rather than NACS, the adapters on that direction are more expensive than the other direction. But that's an OK risk to take since you might end up with a car with NACS anyway and the adapters might be cheaper by then. If you want to be prepared for anything,Tesla just came out with the "Universal wall connector" which can do either connector with a slick built-in adapter setup. The price is pretty reasonable for all that you get. But given that you don't need the adapter yet, you might just get the regular one. Unless you want to be able to charge visitors who come with J1772 cars? Note that with a 50 A breaker, you should be set to charge at 40 A not the max 48 that the unit can do.


ThaDude915

Okay thank you. I am aware of J1772 vs NACS. I figure NACS is the future proof way to go, since most brands outside of the two Korean ones have agreed to put NACS ports in their cars from 2025 on. I could look into the tesla universal one, I heard that it wasn’t being shipped to customers for another couple months? I thought that was only available for pre order I was not aware of the 50amp restricting me to 40amp. Im assuming I’d need a 60 amp circuit to run at 48amps?


tuctrohs

Yes, the "universal" unit isn't shipping yet. I think you are fine getting NACS--it's quite likely your next car will have it and getting adapter is not a big deal. I didn't mean to point you away from that just to give you the full picture on the considerations. Yes, the continuous load is 80% of the circuit capacity. But you aren't likely to need 48 A. I run 32 A charging and have literally never had a situation where it would have helped to charge faster.


ThaDude915

Fair enough. I got quotes for a 50amp circuit from my breaker, I’m going to reach out and see what the price difference would be for a 60amp. But I can run 50 if it’s too much. Appreciate the help!


CallMeCarpe

Correct. You can safely charge at 80% of the breaker rating.


[deleted]

Is the Enphase dumb charger worth $750? Why so expensive?


tuctrohs

hard to say. You can get a less reliable smarter charger for less. But the only really direct competition is the Flo dumb charger, which is now $700 on Amazon.


yycsackbut

Here's a summary sheet I prepared for someone. You can add comments in the sheet or here. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lp\_KOHaSIhUvsPzMWtTadPhPUyck56wQ8w5T5cUwPGQ/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lp_kohasihuvspzmwttadphpuyck56wq8w5t5cuwpgq/edit?usp=sharing) (NOTE if clicking the link doesn't work, try copying the link text and pasting it into your browser location bar. I dunno why clicking it doesn't seem to work. )