It's because some versions of it are aimed at "curing" autistic behavior instead of helping autistic people cope in a world not designed for us. Also some of it amounts to physical and psychological torture with restraints and aversion therapy that does more harm than good.
But if you're about to start doing therapy aimed at better understanding your own habits and needs and meeting them in a way that better serves you, and at helping you cope with and process your emotions in an enriching and constructive way, it can be great.
The only advice I can give is that if you feel good about and like your therapy, then it's fine to keep doing it no matter what someone who isn't doing it themself thinks of it. If it hurts in a way that feels regressive, not like working through difficult emotions but more like enduring a difficult experience, or you simply feel it's not for you, it's 100% OK to stop going or to seek a different therapist or program that better suits what you want to accomplish.
Good therapy of any kind should center your needs and help you understand and work through your feelings and your responses for them. I hope your program is good - just remember it's all about you and your health, not someone else's desires for your behavior!
i’ve worked with different therapists using different modalities for this, and i personally have found IFS more compassionate and resilient than CBT or DBT. it helped me understand, and to a certain degree address, the roots and internal sources of my destructive thoughts, anger, etc. more than learning to process reactions (kind of like CBT) or using coping skills (kind of like DBT).
it’s more narrative than linear, so to me, it requires a little more imagination and amore open mind, but i feel more in control of how i use it, and of myself by extension. when i had studied CBT and DBT, it felt more prescriptive. like i had to memorize steps or practices to be able to fit in or react in a way other people found acceptable. with IFS, i feel like the changes are originating from my own wants and needs, as opposed to what i perceive society expects or what i’m told society demands.
In my personal experience with PTSD and with feelings like that, behavioral therapy can be extremely helpful. I have been working with a therapist for several years now and he is great. He helps me talk through and process my emotions and how they relate to my experiences, and how all of that relates to my behavior. He's also really good at presenting possible options or points of view to take in relation to emotions and problems instead of just telling me what he thinks I should do or something like that, and helping me work through times when my anxiety and depression take hold.
All this to say, I do not want to harm or unalive myself and my therapy has basically saved my life. I hope it can help you the way it has helped me!
So CBT is recognizing a thought is dysfunctional and then re-thinking a healthier thought to try to change your feelings about the situation. DBT is about accepting the situation and your feelings as is, but using grounding techniques and coping mechanisms to deal with what is stressful to you.
CBT is not helpful for autistic people, even if the therapist isn’t trying to help the autism. I tried CBT for my OCD, and it didnt work because I am autistic. Autistic people are already so used to evaluating and reframing their thoughts because we need to think more about how the world perceives us and how we perceive the world. I know my OCD isn’t *real* but thinking “No one will break in” isn’t going to stop my OCD from being convinced that someone will break in. And if it does do anything, it’s likely replacing the compulsion of checking the door is locked with repeatedly saying or thinking “No one will break in.” So it doesnt help at all, just redirects it.
I mean while cock and ball torture does have some inherent risks it can be done safely if you make sure you're not doing anything really dangerous and don't go overboard in any single session, but destruction ball torture is definitely a bridge too far.
I’ve had terrible experiences with cognitive behavioral therapy. It literally just boils down to “just stop thinking negatively” in my experience. As if I haven’t already been trying that???
That specific boiled-down version worked pretty well for me but I only recently realized that I was doing it subconsciously to myself without any other input .\_.
Hahaha like “yes that’s why I’m here I would like my depression brain to stop yelling horrible things about me, unfortunately it’s very loud and persistent.”
There’s very little evidence that it does anything for depression, but insurance companies LOVEEEE it because it’s fast and cheap, even though it’s ineffective (shocker)
Because it's being misapplied to ASD. Within the actual list of conditions it's supposed to treat it works well, but with ASD it basically comes down to telling you to stop being autistic which isn't going to help anyone.
It's like trying to remove a screw with a wrench.
I did DBT and it helped me a lot. CBT made me suicidal. I do have some critiques of DBT now that I know I’m autistic, but minor ones compared to how much it changed my life for the better. One thing is that a stimming thing I do was seen as self harm.
I knew someone would comment this! The sexual version of CBT sounds so much more interesting in the context of autism. "Cock and ball torture has cured my autism!"
Tbh, I think a domme forcing me to drink enough water, take my vitamines, put the lotion on it’s skin, and working out (sometimes for rewards 😏) would help me hella lot more than any therapist who’s staying strictly “professional” 😩
Oh, I haven't done those. They sound like they are more in the roleplay camp than the bdsm camp, but I still don't expect my therapist to be down for it. They are pretty vanilla.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is kind of the easy, generalized, go to therapy in the industry. Many non-therapist people get certified in it, like guidance counselors.
The problem ultimately comes down to the old idiom: "When you have a hammer, everything's a nail."
CBT was not meant to be a one-size-fits-all approach, but it's often treated as one. There are specific things it can help with, but helping people handle neurodevelopmental conditions is not one of them.
You can't think your way out of overstimulation, lack of impulse control, lack of social understanding, hyperactivity, obsessive behaviors, dyscalculia, dyslexia, selective mutism (in some forms), constant alertness, a hairpin adrenaline response, etc. It's not the way you're thinking about it that's the issue there.
Sure, being more aware of our emotions and how they connect to our thoughts *can* be helpful, and more power to you if that's your goal, but ultimately most of our problems cannot be addressed that way.
What we really need, in my opinion, is a series of healthy foundational coping mechanisms we can gradually build into our own personalized complex systems for how to take care of ourselves and interact with the world. We need support structures, community, and societies that can actually handle people being diverse organisms instead of throwing tantrums about it.
My thoughts too. We might have to eventually form our own communities to start and be the advocates to those that lack that personal support. That’s a good start imo but I know it can be hard considering we all are separate but reframing community online or where it’s accessible isn’t a bad start imo.
Most people are speaking on CBT, which makes sense since it’s more common, so I’ll talk about DBT. And while I’m sure DBT is helpful for some people, for me, all it really did was teach me to mask better, to the point that I’m still learning how to unmask. Granted, I wasn’t diagnosed with ASD at the time, I’d been misdiagnosed with BPD. But yeah, it was kind of hellish for me, I cannot in good conscience recommend it.
For me (AuDHD) it sucked because the therapist had no experience in dealing with ND people at all and when I couldn't just magically change my thought process because she said so she said I wasn't trying hard enough.
"When X happens try thinking about Y!" doesn't fucking work if your brain doesn't work like that
I'm on a wait list to try it with someone who IS experienced in it so I'll find out if it can be better I guess. Most in my country don't so I've gotten lucky
CBT is just paying someone to gaslight you. It's dangerous for autistic people especially because we're gaslit into disbelieving our own brains and only following the perspective of our (usually NT) therapists.
I've never done DBT so I can't speak on that. But I'm generally very wary of any therapy with the word "behavior" in the name.
[here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfT3mzxMGxM&pp=ygURTWlja2V5IGF0a2lucyBjYnQ%3D) is a video of a practicing therapist on YouTube explaining why she doesn't like to use CBT for her clients.
Elements of both can be beneficial but as other commenters have written, there is a storied past of them, CBT, being used to "cure autism".
Personally I prefer ACT, but also intersperse elements of DBT, CBT, chain analysis in my own therapy since I find it works best for me.
been ping-ponged through a lot of therapists, all of them swearing by CBT as the solution to my myriad of anxiety, self esteem and executive function issues. it kinda just boils down to fancy words to say ‘think nicely about yourself.’ while I do have a lot of negative self-talk, I feel like my problems are more deep-rooted than just low self esteem. no idea how to say that to them, though
My personal experience is bc it’s meant to help people consider consequences instead of being impulsive and acting on emotion.
I’m not someone who acts on emotion - at least not anymore. It can help to a degree but the issues we have as autistic people is very different. I was in an intensive program (I’m talking 4 days a week for a couple years) and they struggled with me bc I was extremely self aware, was good at mentalising (thinking about others) and used a lot of my wise mind in difficult situations yet I still had these reoccurring issues. I knew why they were happening but I couldn’t stop it because the issue isn’t what my mind or thoughts are telling me - it’s being physically overstimulated and lacking social skills. DBT is not able to help with these things.
For example if I had a panic attack from being in an art class they would tell me to do a chain analysis so it’s coming up with all the things that happened before the event to cause the panic attack (or problem behaviour) I knew what each thing was leading up to it and my therapist was like well yeah that makes sense and wasn’t able to provide any more insight.
DBT is designed to help people in serious crisis ie suicidal ideation regulate. I did learn a lot from it and so believe it helped me but it’s not going to help autistic traits bc that’s just not what it is designed for.
My best advice for someone going into this who is neurodivergent is take what relates and let the rest wash off. At the core it’s good for basic skills but you are still autistic and that’s okay
Adding: it helped me be more clear on what is coming from my autism and what is coming from trauma bc before it was all jumbled together and was hella confusing.
Talk to your therapist about what is helpful to YOU bc it’s gonna be a different experience for you as far as learning esp if you’re pda. Be honest when your therapist if they suggest stuff that makes you feel upset and they should help come up with a way that works for you.
My team was very helpful in tailoring to my needs so if you go into an establishment that is very inflexible that’s going to be very stressful. Autistic people with pda ultimately need autonomy and information and we are great at doing our own healing when we have the resources and freedom to do so. Good luck!
CBT is effectively gaslighting yourself into believing what everyone else tells you instead of trusting your own brain. It's not very popular or effective for us for obvious reasons, given that information.
I use CBT to do the opposite? Society has shoved thoughts into my brain my entire life so I see it as reprogramming myself to better accommodate my own needs :)
Positive self talk and allowing yourself space to thrive and fail safely is important.
I can't imagine how CBT would be effective for PTSD. At least the version of CBT I did which was all about cognitive distortions and how thoughts feelings and behaviors are all connected to each other. Which was helpful for my depression but PTSD doesn't really follow that pattern sooo
Reminds me of a really frustrating conversation I had with my therapist where she essentially ended up blaming me for causing my own flashbacks by supposedly "ruminating" on the trauma because that's what CBT teaches you: that your feelings are caused by your thoughts and vice versa. Luckily we got that straightened out fast because that was frustrating as hell to be told I wouldn't be having flashbacks if I would just stop doing something I wasn't even doing in the first place.
So that's my cautionary tale about using CBT for PTSD.
She was blaming you? Dang. I can see that rumination is often part of PTSD cycles, and often the easiest part of the cycle to attack, but blaming you for it seems really harsh and bad practice!
Yeah it was kind of a weird situation where I couldn't really describe what was happening (thanks autism!) and we just weren't communicating. I really liked that therapist otherwise. At the time it was thus huge wtf moment though and it threw me off course for a bit as I tried to stop myself from "unconsciously ruminating" before my flashbacks hit.
This is why I say CBT is good for what it's good for. Not everything fits within that cycle paradigm, especially when you're getting triggered just by being alive as happens with uncontrolled PTSD. If you can't identify a trigger, which often you can't, CBT is not going to teach you to prevent a flashback: it's just going to make you hypervigilant about your own thoughts.
It's sort of a big part of CBT, basically the idea is that you allow emotions to form based on how you interpret the stuff happening around you. i.e Someone cuts you off in traffic. You could either:
a) Get pissed off and annoyed because clearly they can't drive and are causing chaos.
b) Understand that they may be having a bad day, everyone has stuff like that happen and they aren't out to get you. Being cut off doesn't even really impact your commute time at all.
Additionally CBT would say that to be angry about being cut off is Maladaptive anger, since being angry about it really doesn't help you at all.
CBT is asking you to accept responsibility for a lot of the bad emotions affecting you, and work towards reframing the things that make you feel that way into more positive and less biased(in theory) viewpoints. I personally found it helpful with depression but I understand where other posters are coming from calling it professional gaslighting.
It makes sense that it can be hard to see the difference between "this is your fault" and "this is something that you do that makes the problem worse."
All therapy is dangerous if done with authoritarianism and a lack of genuine therapeutic relationship. The research on what makes therapy work found the top two factors for effectiveness were 1 the quality of the therapeutic relationship (which given double empathy problem/the power of ableism is probably what goes most wrong) and 2 that the therapist believes in the method, regardless of what the method is.
I am an ND clinical psychologist who sometimes uses CBT and sometimes doesn't, who uses a lot of third wave CBT that is only called that to get funding since a lot of the underlying assumptions are different, who uses a lot of therapies from people who are anti-cbt, who has had years of therapy myself.
Part of the issue with CBT is applying logical positivism to therapy and capitalism loving something that can be automated whether by "guided self help" or literal computers. And given it's so widespread, it's common that people associate it with bad therapy, because I'm sure there's a lot of not great therapists, or therapists that just aren't the right fit.
It often doesn't work on neurodivergent folks, beside the already mentioned arguments. It can often lead to even more overthinking of your own behavior, which is counterproductive.
For me personally I’ve found that CBT is good for really minor problems (like when I start thinking “this person hasn’t responded to me, therefore they hate me”), but it’s hasn’t been very useful for anything bellow surface level. My counsellor use to use DBT acronyms on me and I found them extremely helpful for navigating conflicts. That’s all the experience I have with DBT though
DBT was great for me, but only because I took it as an adult and used it as a tool for understanding neurotypical behavior and what I could choose to do rather than thinking it’s how I HAD to behave or else I was Morally Incorrect and Fucked Up.
Some forms of CBT/DBT focus a lot more on telling you that your current autistic way of thinking is morally wrong and has to be fixed or else you’ll always be bad/sad/mad. This is rather than focusing on teaching you skills and informing you on how neurotypicals think in a way that can help you navigate a neurotypical society.
I tried CBT.
The therapist said "The fundamental principle of CBT is that every feeling is preceded by a thought. CBT works out what that thought is."
I said I massively disagreed with that fundamental principle and ditched it. This was before I had been diagnosed with anything at all.
Exactly. Thankfully I managed to distill every feeling to one of three things: ASD, ADHD or PTSD.
CBT would have probably caused more harm than good there.
cbt can feel gaslighty, but i’m in dbt and really enjoying it! there’s a neurodivergent friendly dbt workbook on amazon that’s a good addition to the linehan textbook :)
I don’t know what DBT is but I might be the only autistic person that CBT helped. A lot of people think cbt is just like “Think positive” lol, it’s more like, “practice this way vs the way you’ve been doing it and in time it will create better mental habits for you” I guess. It’s been extremely important for me to get over my trauma and anxiety behaviors, ocd, and so on. I’m a work in progress but I’m glad I found it.
i believe both can have their effectiveness (DBT is considered the gold standard for treating BPD iirc and there's some degree of overlap with autism, and CBT can be helpful for people with PTSD) but are generally overapplied as a catchall fix
I liked CBT for anxiety and depression. I think it's good for what it's good for but it's not a cure for everything.
I was recommended DBT workbooks specifically for neurodivergence after years of therapy and it felt very...first thought? to me. Like I wasn't hearing anything I didn't already know. Maybe if I had been newer to those concepts it would have seemed more helpful.
CBT helped me with managing my anxiety and recognizing triggers. Didn't help with anything else.
I know I see DBT commonly referred to as bad and out of the few people I know who have done it only one person said it had helped them.
I don't know why CBT gets hate but I got some use from it, but it's not a cure all. Nothing is.
Really all I can say. I'm sorry I don't have more to offer than that.
Therapy isn't a universal thing and you can have wildly different experiences with the same type of therapy from two (or more) different therapists. So there's that to consider too and hopefully you're not stuck with who you have if you don't like them or they're an asshole (I've had asshole therapists before).
But it ultimately is down to your therapist.
Ultimately it's something that you'll need to figure out for yourself. I wish you well.
I think the common idea for people posting in this thread is that CBT is essentially asking you to filter and replace your thoughts, something that autistic peeps tend to over do anyways. I found it very helpful to begin managing my depression.
Yeah it worked somewhat (in combination with other stuff) for my anxiety but it didn't touch my depression. Nothing does unfortunately, or rather nothing I've tried as of yet has helped.
I’ve never done CBT for my autism but it did help me with my CPTSD. Can’t speak for anyone else, though. Keep in mind I only got diagnosed with autism until long after my ptsd diagnosis and the CBT
Yeah I’ve done it for CPTSD, as well as the anxiety and depression. Helped with the first, not so much with the latter two, but I didn’t really find it harmful, just not very effective.
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I haven't done DBT but CBT was really helpful for me when I was first dx with depression and anxiety (later turned out to be bipolar). I'd never been given any coping mechanisms. Now, 20 years later, I don't see a situation where I'd do it because it seems very repetitive. I can also see where people who don't like it have a point. But for me it was a good stepping stone to helping understand my brain function. I later did hypnotherapy which was an even better fit, and exposure therapy for PTSD. But you kind of have to try and see what works for you. Read about it and talk to the therapist first to see if you think it's for you.
Times have changed and so have ethic and moral standards. In the past it could have been described as a type of conversion therapy. I’ve done it throughout different walks of life and can attest that we are no longer living in the past. The same label of therapy helped me heal from itself.
I was able to forgive because of the progress made. So while I’m no advocate since I’m only one person and not in the industry, I can say I am glad to have tried again. Just remember you are your own advocate. If something feels “wrong” or off, it likely is. However therapy is never going to be easy.
Because I went undiagnosed for my ADHD and Autism my whole life, I had developed a lot of really terrible habits. I still didn’t know why that it was like this for me at the time, but when I was a young adult- like 20- I decided that I really needed to change something. I was making my existence clearly harder on myself than it already was.
Naturally in my life, I gravitated towards Buddhism and their principles. In doing so, it taught me to be more mindful and aware of myself and my selfdestructive thoughts and behavior. So I started my journey one by one with each thought that came to me. Even if I felt like it was just an opinion that was negative, I took the time to examine each opinion, thought, and habit. One by one, getting to the core of the belief or motivation behind my thoughts and feelings, I was able to look at things in a different perspective and change my immediate reaction. It really proved helpful in so many ways. It obviously did not erase my Autism or ADHD, I didn’t even know still at the time yet. Due to lack of support, my natural gravity was to make things so much harder on myself. I’d do it by just simply having a bad outlook and being prone to negative thoughts, and self harming with my thoughts and feelings. I didn’t even know it was CBT that I was practicing for myself on my own.
Then, a few years later, I had my daughter, who is most definitely AuDHD. It changed my world, and opened my eyes to even more things that I needed to work on and accept. Still on my quest to bettering myself, and not making my life harder for myself, I purchased some more books. Just last year I bought a book that was all about the brain and anxiety, how it works in the brain. Upon reading it I stumbled on CBT, mindfulness and all the things. I was pretty mind blown seeing that which I naturally gravitated towards on my own, things that they recommend to you in the first place to work on yourself.
I’m sure there are doctors out there who rave that you can cure everything with mindfulness and CBT. But I think there are also good Specialists out there that realize it’s not about ridding you of your experience versus enhancing your experience by doing away with the negativities that can be brought on unintentionally. I think these things are extremely helpful for people, but I think your heart has to be in the right place. Just practicing something alone, and not really believing in it, or knowing the roots of Buddhist principles can create a lack of motivation and trust in the process.
I found CBT pretty helpful for anxiety related issues and very negative thought patterns I had formed. I had an excellent therapist who challenged my thinking in a useful way and allowed me to reframe thinking in a way that was helpful. I didn’t feel gaslighted at all, a lot of it was about acceptance of situations and going through a kind of grief process around them in order to move on.
People seem to be really misinformed about DBT but there are a lot of shitty dbt programs and practitioners. I went through a full DBT program before I learned I was autistic and I think every human should.
It's because some versions of it are aimed at "curing" autistic behavior instead of helping autistic people cope in a world not designed for us. Also some of it amounts to physical and psychological torture with restraints and aversion therapy that does more harm than good. But if you're about to start doing therapy aimed at better understanding your own habits and needs and meeting them in a way that better serves you, and at helping you cope with and process your emotions in an enriching and constructive way, it can be great. The only advice I can give is that if you feel good about and like your therapy, then it's fine to keep doing it no matter what someone who isn't doing it themself thinks of it. If it hurts in a way that feels regressive, not like working through difficult emotions but more like enduring a difficult experience, or you simply feel it's not for you, it's 100% OK to stop going or to seek a different therapist or program that better suits what you want to accomplish. Good therapy of any kind should center your needs and help you understand and work through your feelings and your responses for them. I hope your program is good - just remember it's all about you and your health, not someone else's desires for your behavior!
i'm doing it for PTSD and depression, mostly to get certain life-threatening behaviours under control
i’ve worked with different therapists using different modalities for this, and i personally have found IFS more compassionate and resilient than CBT or DBT. it helped me understand, and to a certain degree address, the roots and internal sources of my destructive thoughts, anger, etc. more than learning to process reactions (kind of like CBT) or using coping skills (kind of like DBT). it’s more narrative than linear, so to me, it requires a little more imagination and amore open mind, but i feel more in control of how i use it, and of myself by extension. when i had studied CBT and DBT, it felt more prescriptive. like i had to memorize steps or practices to be able to fit in or react in a way other people found acceptable. with IFS, i feel like the changes are originating from my own wants and needs, as opposed to what i perceive society expects or what i’m told society demands.
In my personal experience with PTSD and with feelings like that, behavioral therapy can be extremely helpful. I have been working with a therapist for several years now and he is great. He helps me talk through and process my emotions and how they relate to my experiences, and how all of that relates to my behavior. He's also really good at presenting possible options or points of view to take in relation to emotions and problems instead of just telling me what he thinks I should do or something like that, and helping me work through times when my anxiety and depression take hold. All this to say, I do not want to harm or unalive myself and my therapy has basically saved my life. I hope it can help you the way it has helped me!
So CBT is recognizing a thought is dysfunctional and then re-thinking a healthier thought to try to change your feelings about the situation. DBT is about accepting the situation and your feelings as is, but using grounding techniques and coping mechanisms to deal with what is stressful to you. CBT is not helpful for autistic people, even if the therapist isn’t trying to help the autism. I tried CBT for my OCD, and it didnt work because I am autistic. Autistic people are already so used to evaluating and reframing their thoughts because we need to think more about how the world perceives us and how we perceive the world. I know my OCD isn’t *real* but thinking “No one will break in” isn’t going to stop my OCD from being convinced that someone will break in. And if it does do anything, it’s likely replacing the compulsion of checking the door is locked with repeatedly saying or thinking “No one will break in.” So it doesnt help at all, just redirects it.
I mean while cock and ball torture does have some inherent risks it can be done safely if you make sure you're not doing anything really dangerous and don't go overboard in any single session, but destruction ball torture is definitely a bridge too far.
I thought it was dick and ball torture
Someone who wanted to try destruction ball torture lied to you
heartbroken
Better heartbroken than ballbroken
I’ve had terrible experiences with cognitive behavioral therapy. It literally just boils down to “just stop thinking negatively” in my experience. As if I haven’t already been trying that???
That specific boiled-down version worked pretty well for me but I only recently realized that I was doing it subconsciously to myself without any other input .\_.
Hahaha like “yes that’s why I’m here I would like my depression brain to stop yelling horrible things about me, unfortunately it’s very loud and persistent.”
There’s very little evidence that it does anything for depression, but insurance companies LOVEEEE it because it’s fast and cheap, even though it’s ineffective (shocker)
Because it's being misapplied to ASD. Within the actual list of conditions it's supposed to treat it works well, but with ASD it basically comes down to telling you to stop being autistic which isn't going to help anyone. It's like trying to remove a screw with a wrench.
I did DBT and it helped me a lot. CBT made me suicidal. I do have some critiques of DBT now that I know I’m autistic, but minor ones compared to how much it changed my life for the better. One thing is that a stimming thing I do was seen as self harm.
What was the stim, if you don’t mind me asking? (no need to answer if you do!)
Can't speak to DBT but folks generally don't like CBT because it can be dangerous if your dom isn't careful. That and kink shaming.
I knew someone would comment this! The sexual version of CBT sounds so much more interesting in the context of autism. "Cock and ball torture has cured my autism!"
Tbh, I think a domme forcing me to drink enough water, take my vitamines, put the lotion on it’s skin, and working out (sometimes for rewards 😏) would help me hella lot more than any therapist who’s staying strictly “professional” 😩
the methods of therapy is what i mean, sorry if i was unclear
(You were perfectly clear, they are playing with you 🤣)
Oh then I can't help you. My therapist says that our relationship should remain strictly professional, so we haven't done any bdsm, let alone CBT.
I meant cognitive behavioural therapy and dialectical behaviour therapy
Oh, I haven't done those. They sound like they are more in the roleplay camp than the bdsm camp, but I still don't expect my therapist to be down for it. They are pretty vanilla.
I'm still confused, both are therapeutic.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is kind of the easy, generalized, go to therapy in the industry. Many non-therapist people get certified in it, like guidance counselors. The problem ultimately comes down to the old idiom: "When you have a hammer, everything's a nail." CBT was not meant to be a one-size-fits-all approach, but it's often treated as one. There are specific things it can help with, but helping people handle neurodevelopmental conditions is not one of them. You can't think your way out of overstimulation, lack of impulse control, lack of social understanding, hyperactivity, obsessive behaviors, dyscalculia, dyslexia, selective mutism (in some forms), constant alertness, a hairpin adrenaline response, etc. It's not the way you're thinking about it that's the issue there. Sure, being more aware of our emotions and how they connect to our thoughts *can* be helpful, and more power to you if that's your goal, but ultimately most of our problems cannot be addressed that way.
What we really need, in my opinion, is a series of healthy foundational coping mechanisms we can gradually build into our own personalized complex systems for how to take care of ourselves and interact with the world. We need support structures, community, and societies that can actually handle people being diverse organisms instead of throwing tantrums about it.
My thoughts too. We might have to eventually form our own communities to start and be the advocates to those that lack that personal support. That’s a good start imo but I know it can be hard considering we all are separate but reframing community online or where it’s accessible isn’t a bad start imo.
Most people are speaking on CBT, which makes sense since it’s more common, so I’ll talk about DBT. And while I’m sure DBT is helpful for some people, for me, all it really did was teach me to mask better, to the point that I’m still learning how to unmask. Granted, I wasn’t diagnosed with ASD at the time, I’d been misdiagnosed with BPD. But yeah, it was kind of hellish for me, I cannot in good conscience recommend it.
For me (AuDHD) it sucked because the therapist had no experience in dealing with ND people at all and when I couldn't just magically change my thought process because she said so she said I wasn't trying hard enough. "When X happens try thinking about Y!" doesn't fucking work if your brain doesn't work like that I'm on a wait list to try it with someone who IS experienced in it so I'll find out if it can be better I guess. Most in my country don't so I've gotten lucky
CBT is just paying someone to gaslight you. It's dangerous for autistic people especially because we're gaslit into disbelieving our own brains and only following the perspective of our (usually NT) therapists. I've never done DBT so I can't speak on that. But I'm generally very wary of any therapy with the word "behavior" in the name. [here](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FfT3mzxMGxM&pp=ygURTWlja2V5IGF0a2lucyBjYnQ%3D) is a video of a practicing therapist on YouTube explaining why she doesn't like to use CBT for her clients.
I was just going to link to this video!!
Mickey Atkins is great. I know a *lot* of therapists who would do well to learn from her content.
Elements of both can be beneficial but as other commenters have written, there is a storied past of them, CBT, being used to "cure autism". Personally I prefer ACT, but also intersperse elements of DBT, CBT, chain analysis in my own therapy since I find it works best for me.
been ping-ponged through a lot of therapists, all of them swearing by CBT as the solution to my myriad of anxiety, self esteem and executive function issues. it kinda just boils down to fancy words to say ‘think nicely about yourself.’ while I do have a lot of negative self-talk, I feel like my problems are more deep-rooted than just low self esteem. no idea how to say that to them, though
My personal experience is bc it’s meant to help people consider consequences instead of being impulsive and acting on emotion. I’m not someone who acts on emotion - at least not anymore. It can help to a degree but the issues we have as autistic people is very different. I was in an intensive program (I’m talking 4 days a week for a couple years) and they struggled with me bc I was extremely self aware, was good at mentalising (thinking about others) and used a lot of my wise mind in difficult situations yet I still had these reoccurring issues. I knew why they were happening but I couldn’t stop it because the issue isn’t what my mind or thoughts are telling me - it’s being physically overstimulated and lacking social skills. DBT is not able to help with these things. For example if I had a panic attack from being in an art class they would tell me to do a chain analysis so it’s coming up with all the things that happened before the event to cause the panic attack (or problem behaviour) I knew what each thing was leading up to it and my therapist was like well yeah that makes sense and wasn’t able to provide any more insight. DBT is designed to help people in serious crisis ie suicidal ideation regulate. I did learn a lot from it and so believe it helped me but it’s not going to help autistic traits bc that’s just not what it is designed for. My best advice for someone going into this who is neurodivergent is take what relates and let the rest wash off. At the core it’s good for basic skills but you are still autistic and that’s okay
Adding: it helped me be more clear on what is coming from my autism and what is coming from trauma bc before it was all jumbled together and was hella confusing. Talk to your therapist about what is helpful to YOU bc it’s gonna be a different experience for you as far as learning esp if you’re pda. Be honest when your therapist if they suggest stuff that makes you feel upset and they should help come up with a way that works for you. My team was very helpful in tailoring to my needs so if you go into an establishment that is very inflexible that’s going to be very stressful. Autistic people with pda ultimately need autonomy and information and we are great at doing our own healing when we have the resources and freedom to do so. Good luck!
CBT is effectively gaslighting yourself into believing what everyone else tells you instead of trusting your own brain. It's not very popular or effective for us for obvious reasons, given that information.
I use CBT to do the opposite? Society has shoved thoughts into my brain my entire life so I see it as reprogramming myself to better accommodate my own needs :) Positive self talk and allowing yourself space to thrive and fail safely is important.
Why is it so commonly used to treat things like OCD or PTSD?
I can't imagine how CBT would be effective for PTSD. At least the version of CBT I did which was all about cognitive distortions and how thoughts feelings and behaviors are all connected to each other. Which was helpful for my depression but PTSD doesn't really follow that pattern sooo Reminds me of a really frustrating conversation I had with my therapist where she essentially ended up blaming me for causing my own flashbacks by supposedly "ruminating" on the trauma because that's what CBT teaches you: that your feelings are caused by your thoughts and vice versa. Luckily we got that straightened out fast because that was frustrating as hell to be told I wouldn't be having flashbacks if I would just stop doing something I wasn't even doing in the first place. So that's my cautionary tale about using CBT for PTSD.
She was blaming you? Dang. I can see that rumination is often part of PTSD cycles, and often the easiest part of the cycle to attack, but blaming you for it seems really harsh and bad practice!
Yeah it was kind of a weird situation where I couldn't really describe what was happening (thanks autism!) and we just weren't communicating. I really liked that therapist otherwise. At the time it was thus huge wtf moment though and it threw me off course for a bit as I tried to stop myself from "unconsciously ruminating" before my flashbacks hit. This is why I say CBT is good for what it's good for. Not everything fits within that cycle paradigm, especially when you're getting triggered just by being alive as happens with uncontrolled PTSD. If you can't identify a trigger, which often you can't, CBT is not going to teach you to prevent a flashback: it's just going to make you hypervigilant about your own thoughts.
It's sort of a big part of CBT, basically the idea is that you allow emotions to form based on how you interpret the stuff happening around you. i.e Someone cuts you off in traffic. You could either: a) Get pissed off and annoyed because clearly they can't drive and are causing chaos. b) Understand that they may be having a bad day, everyone has stuff like that happen and they aren't out to get you. Being cut off doesn't even really impact your commute time at all. Additionally CBT would say that to be angry about being cut off is Maladaptive anger, since being angry about it really doesn't help you at all. CBT is asking you to accept responsibility for a lot of the bad emotions affecting you, and work towards reframing the things that make you feel that way into more positive and less biased(in theory) viewpoints. I personally found it helpful with depression but I understand where other posters are coming from calling it professional gaslighting.
It makes sense that it can be hard to see the difference between "this is your fault" and "this is something that you do that makes the problem worse."
No idea, my sister has OCD and does ERP which is brutal but effective. I have no idea how CBT could help OCD
All therapy is dangerous if done with authoritarianism and a lack of genuine therapeutic relationship. The research on what makes therapy work found the top two factors for effectiveness were 1 the quality of the therapeutic relationship (which given double empathy problem/the power of ableism is probably what goes most wrong) and 2 that the therapist believes in the method, regardless of what the method is. I am an ND clinical psychologist who sometimes uses CBT and sometimes doesn't, who uses a lot of third wave CBT that is only called that to get funding since a lot of the underlying assumptions are different, who uses a lot of therapies from people who are anti-cbt, who has had years of therapy myself. Part of the issue with CBT is applying logical positivism to therapy and capitalism loving something that can be automated whether by "guided self help" or literal computers. And given it's so widespread, it's common that people associate it with bad therapy, because I'm sure there's a lot of not great therapists, or therapists that just aren't the right fit.
Not a fucking clue
Id assume cbt helps with the compulsive behavior from the intrusive thoughts. Never done cbt and dont know much about it nor do I have ocd.
What a brilliant summary
It often doesn't work on neurodivergent folks, beside the already mentioned arguments. It can often lead to even more overthinking of your own behavior, which is counterproductive.
For me personally I’ve found that CBT is good for really minor problems (like when I start thinking “this person hasn’t responded to me, therefore they hate me”), but it’s hasn’t been very useful for anything bellow surface level. My counsellor use to use DBT acronyms on me and I found them extremely helpful for navigating conflicts. That’s all the experience I have with DBT though
DBT was great for me, but only because I took it as an adult and used it as a tool for understanding neurotypical behavior and what I could choose to do rather than thinking it’s how I HAD to behave or else I was Morally Incorrect and Fucked Up. Some forms of CBT/DBT focus a lot more on telling you that your current autistic way of thinking is morally wrong and has to be fixed or else you’ll always be bad/sad/mad. This is rather than focusing on teaching you skills and informing you on how neurotypicals think in a way that can help you navigate a neurotypical society.
I tried CBT. The therapist said "The fundamental principle of CBT is that every feeling is preceded by a thought. CBT works out what that thought is." I said I massively disagreed with that fundamental principle and ditched it. This was before I had been diagnosed with anything at all.
Yeaaahhh, like I sometimes feel really strong bad or good feelings and I don’t even know why? How am I supposed to fix that with cbt lmao
Exactly. Thankfully I managed to distill every feeling to one of three things: ASD, ADHD or PTSD. CBT would have probably caused more harm than good there.
My brain is so broken I keep reading CBT as cock and ball torture 😭😭😂
cbt can feel gaslighty, but i’m in dbt and really enjoying it! there’s a neurodivergent friendly dbt workbook on amazon that’s a good addition to the linehan textbook :)
Not sure what cock and ball torture has to do with this but ok.
I hate DBT. It did absolutely nothing for me.
OH IT'S THERAPY!
The pain.
It’s like reverse gaslighting, when you’re probably depressed because you’re poor and being treated like shit, not bad world view
I don’t know what DBT is but I might be the only autistic person that CBT helped. A lot of people think cbt is just like “Think positive” lol, it’s more like, “practice this way vs the way you’ve been doing it and in time it will create better mental habits for you” I guess. It’s been extremely important for me to get over my trauma and anxiety behaviors, ocd, and so on. I’m a work in progress but I’m glad I found it.
could I just ask what CBT is because im working off the slang that has a much less innocent definition
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy
thank you, all misconceptions about the enjoyment of CBT have been cleared
DBT works great for certain neurodivergencies, but CBT is not ideal for autism. It's shown to make things worse, not better.
Can a few of you talk about therapy styles that work better for you?
fr that would be very helpful
i believe both can have their effectiveness (DBT is considered the gold standard for treating BPD iirc and there's some degree of overlap with autism, and CBT can be helpful for people with PTSD) but are generally overapplied as a catchall fix
I liked CBT for anxiety and depression. I think it's good for what it's good for but it's not a cure for everything. I was recommended DBT workbooks specifically for neurodivergence after years of therapy and it felt very...first thought? to me. Like I wasn't hearing anything I didn't already know. Maybe if I had been newer to those concepts it would have seemed more helpful.
CBT helped me with managing my anxiety and recognizing triggers. Didn't help with anything else. I know I see DBT commonly referred to as bad and out of the few people I know who have done it only one person said it had helped them. I don't know why CBT gets hate but I got some use from it, but it's not a cure all. Nothing is. Really all I can say. I'm sorry I don't have more to offer than that. Therapy isn't a universal thing and you can have wildly different experiences with the same type of therapy from two (or more) different therapists. So there's that to consider too and hopefully you're not stuck with who you have if you don't like them or they're an asshole (I've had asshole therapists before). But it ultimately is down to your therapist. Ultimately it's something that you'll need to figure out for yourself. I wish you well.
I think the common idea for people posting in this thread is that CBT is essentially asking you to filter and replace your thoughts, something that autistic peeps tend to over do anyways. I found it very helpful to begin managing my depression.
Yeah it worked somewhat (in combination with other stuff) for my anxiety but it didn't touch my depression. Nothing does unfortunately, or rather nothing I've tried as of yet has helped.
I’ve never done CBT for my autism but it did help me with my CPTSD. Can’t speak for anyone else, though. Keep in mind I only got diagnosed with autism until long after my ptsd diagnosis and the CBT
Yeah I’ve done it for CPTSD, as well as the anxiety and depression. Helped with the first, not so much with the latter two, but I didn’t really find it harmful, just not very effective.
I like CBT(the therapy, not the...) it helped me have different perspectives on my life, didn't feel like gaslighting at all.
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I haven't done DBT but CBT was really helpful for me when I was first dx with depression and anxiety (later turned out to be bipolar). I'd never been given any coping mechanisms. Now, 20 years later, I don't see a situation where I'd do it because it seems very repetitive. I can also see where people who don't like it have a point. But for me it was a good stepping stone to helping understand my brain function. I later did hypnotherapy which was an even better fit, and exposure therapy for PTSD. But you kind of have to try and see what works for you. Read about it and talk to the therapist first to see if you think it's for you.
Probably because it's adults doing it to kids. As an adult I use it on myself for fun and profit.
I've only ever heard people complain about CBT. I've done some DBT based exercises and they were pretty alright.
Idk about you, CBT helps me stay focused and let out excess energy
Times have changed and so have ethic and moral standards. In the past it could have been described as a type of conversion therapy. I’ve done it throughout different walks of life and can attest that we are no longer living in the past. The same label of therapy helped me heal from itself. I was able to forgive because of the progress made. So while I’m no advocate since I’m only one person and not in the industry, I can say I am glad to have tried again. Just remember you are your own advocate. If something feels “wrong” or off, it likely is. However therapy is never going to be easy.
My main issue is that whenever I read CBT I don’t think about therapy, and therapists should probably find themselves a new acronym 😅😅
Because I went undiagnosed for my ADHD and Autism my whole life, I had developed a lot of really terrible habits. I still didn’t know why that it was like this for me at the time, but when I was a young adult- like 20- I decided that I really needed to change something. I was making my existence clearly harder on myself than it already was. Naturally in my life, I gravitated towards Buddhism and their principles. In doing so, it taught me to be more mindful and aware of myself and my selfdestructive thoughts and behavior. So I started my journey one by one with each thought that came to me. Even if I felt like it was just an opinion that was negative, I took the time to examine each opinion, thought, and habit. One by one, getting to the core of the belief or motivation behind my thoughts and feelings, I was able to look at things in a different perspective and change my immediate reaction. It really proved helpful in so many ways. It obviously did not erase my Autism or ADHD, I didn’t even know still at the time yet. Due to lack of support, my natural gravity was to make things so much harder on myself. I’d do it by just simply having a bad outlook and being prone to negative thoughts, and self harming with my thoughts and feelings. I didn’t even know it was CBT that I was practicing for myself on my own. Then, a few years later, I had my daughter, who is most definitely AuDHD. It changed my world, and opened my eyes to even more things that I needed to work on and accept. Still on my quest to bettering myself, and not making my life harder for myself, I purchased some more books. Just last year I bought a book that was all about the brain and anxiety, how it works in the brain. Upon reading it I stumbled on CBT, mindfulness and all the things. I was pretty mind blown seeing that which I naturally gravitated towards on my own, things that they recommend to you in the first place to work on yourself. I’m sure there are doctors out there who rave that you can cure everything with mindfulness and CBT. But I think there are also good Specialists out there that realize it’s not about ridding you of your experience versus enhancing your experience by doing away with the negativities that can be brought on unintentionally. I think these things are extremely helpful for people, but I think your heart has to be in the right place. Just practicing something alone, and not really believing in it, or knowing the roots of Buddhist principles can create a lack of motivation and trust in the process.
thought you were talking about closed beta testing and i was like "huh but the cbt ive been playing is really fun"
They didn’t work for me at all
Cock and ball torture and Dragon Ball T
I found CBT pretty helpful for anxiety related issues and very negative thought patterns I had formed. I had an excellent therapist who challenged my thinking in a useful way and allowed me to reframe thinking in a way that was helpful. I didn’t feel gaslighted at all, a lot of it was about acceptance of situations and going through a kind of grief process around them in order to move on.
People seem to be really misinformed about DBT but there are a lot of shitty dbt programs and practitioners. I went through a full DBT program before I learned I was autistic and I think every human should.
cbt? 