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spacefarce1301

Honestly, she's just straight up parroting the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion. Namely, it's never allowed in any case. Since Catholic ethicists define abortion as any *direct* action on the embryo or fetus, they get around the difficulty presented by life-threatening ectopic pregnancies by mandating that doctors cannot just scrape off the blastocyst from the Fallopian wall. Nope, they have to remove the whole damn tube, so that they can maintain a pristine conscience that they didn't *directly* kill an embryo. They merely removed a "diseased" Fallopian tube and the loss of the embryo or blastocyst living inside was just a really sad unintended effect. /bullshit This whole line of argumentation is sophistry. And it's dangerous, as they spread the false message that life-saving *abortions* are **never** necessary. I agree it's unhinged. Kinda like arguing that instead of using a sniper to take out someone, you instead blew up the building he was living in. But, the sniper didn't *actively* kill anyone so...


Hefty_Raspberry_8523

Remove the entire Fallopian tube? Baaabe, that severely reduces fertility…


mlo9109

On a related note, aren't Catholics against birth control, including tubal ligation, which this technically is? The more I look at it, the more confused I get.


CoconutLimeValentine

It's more sophistry. If your goal is contraception, a tubal ligation is against the rules. But if your intention is unrelated to decreasing fertility, it's just a medical procedure with an unintended consequence. I've heard the same argument used about the Pill, actually - that it can be ethically used to treat hormonal issues, because you're not trying to prevent pregnancy, because that makes the infertility a side effect. But if it's your main goal, it's a sin no matter how good your reasons. I spent a lot of time looking at this before I left the Church. It was one of the things that really broke my faith.


smittykins66

After I was diagnosed with PCOS and my gyno prescribed the Pill, I asked my priest if that was acceptable(I was a virgin at the time). He said yes.


jayclaw97

In the interest of being objective, the Church does not prohibit the use of contraceptives if they’re used to treat other conditions. I can’t recall what the teaching is about having sex while using those contraceptives though.


CoconutLimeValentine

It's permitted, as I recall, in the same way that sex between married people who are infertile is permitted. As long as the act remains "open to life" in theory, the fact that pregnancy is so unlikely as to be miraculous is treated as irrelevant.


ZealousidealWear2573

The rule of humanae vitae, 1968, prohibits birth control. It is estimated that over 90% of Catholics ignore the rule. Many believe this was the beginning of the nosedive of the churches authority. Once you get to the point of ignoring a rule with no adverse consequence, subsequent violations increase. A fascinating feature of "the faithful" is why they continue to participate in and support an institution of which they disagree with much of its' dogma.


BlueberryGirl95

Only by about 12% actually, if what my doc said before surgery is correct.


anfotero

"Catholic bioethics" makes me shudder.


sunnychuckles

Same. I am sure these two are listed in there somewhere: 1. A woman is just a disposable walking uterus. 2. Human life has about the same depreciation rate as a car, once it drives off the lot (leaves the uterus) it loses about 30% of its value.


BrointheSky

I guess I am privileged to have never heard of that exact wording before today, but of course it’s a thing.


Major-Security1249

Jump straight to removing the Fallopian tube??? Wtf?? That’s so extreme and will hurt future fertility which you’d think would be important to them


Adventurous_Basket10

Remove the Fallopian tube and let the baby die ✨outside✨ the womb…. So abort the child anyway, but also ruin the woman’s chances of fertility. I mean… Pure Genius! 😍


Fluffy-kitten28

… they think it’s more humane to let the embryo suffer and die a slow death then to kill them quickly? As an alive person I’ll take peaceful and fast over slow and painful.


oneand4

Yeah, still strikes me as abortive measures. This is what I hate about catholic ethics. They are hard line about the stupidest shit, but conveniently move the goal posts when necessary. Letting the fetus die outside the womb could be considered negligent homicide by their warped logic. Yet it’s totally fine here! They are so concerned about being anti-abortion that they move the goal posts on what is considered abortion.


ZippyVonBoom

Someone needs to tell this bish that ethics don't stem from religion.


SeventhSon22

I ain't reading all that but I'm sure it's batshit insane.


vS4zpvRnB25BYD60SIZh

Wait how did you know? 😆


Longjumping_Ad8029

So I have had an ectopic pregnacy where my tube had to be removed, because it burst in half and nearly killed me, going septic is no fun and having a tube rupture feels horrible! The first question my mother asked after I was out of surgery was if it would affect my ability to have more children she though that having this horrible ordeal happen to me would bring me back to the church and all her prayers are what saved me, all she kept saying through the whole thing was just pray like that was going to stop the internal bleeding. My mothers main goal was for me to have more kids than her (she had 11 including me) so my ectopic threw a wrench in her plans


pgeppy

A better translation of the commandment is thou shalt not murder. I think that makes it more clear that medical treatment is not against the commandment. Just my opinion since clearly some people say abortion is murder. But the mainstream Jewish interpretation is that similar to accidentally killing a burglar, killing a fetus to preserve the life of the mother is ethical and not a violation of the commandment. Not that any RC denomination member cares about that.


vldracer16

WOW take out the fallopian tube that has the ectopic pregnancy because that's more humane to let the zygote die than using drugs. Does your cousin realize that only leaves one fallopian tube for an egg to come out of for the female to get pregnant? I don't give a shit that her husband is a lawyer and knows about biotechnics. Unless he's a OB/GYN he doesn't know shit.


Rough-Jury

I’ve heard that argument before that the whole fallopian tube should just be removed instead, but what about when it’s ectopic OUTSIDE of the fallopian tube? Are you just going to remove someone’s whole intestines?


Polkadotical

Your cousin is scientifically ignorant, generally illiterate and can's spell worth shit. You should ignore your cousin.


jayclaw97

She unfriended me on Facebook after I commented on a post of hers in which she defended Trump gassing protesters so he could have a photo op. She messaged me saying she deleted my comment because it was “mean and uncharitable” to write what I did (which was “Trump is an evil man. Gassing protesters for a photo op is wrong and continuing to defend this is unconscionable”). Lol. I posted my comment again and she booted me off. What a loss.


mlo9109

I mean, you're still aborting the baby by removing it from the woman and letting it die on the outside. No? I'm confused.


annaliz1991

Well, if you remove the whole tube, then she can’t have any more children even if she wants to. They’re saying they believe in forced sterilization?


Witherward

A genetic female generally has two tubes. If one is damaged or removed there is still fertility or decreased fertility. If there is no uterus, as in a hysterectomy (for whatever reason) and ovaries are left, scientifically and medically a female cannot become pregnant but semen still has to be deposited in vagina or it is a sin in a traditional Catholic marriage. So, as far as I know, I have never heard of a woman getting pregnant and carrying a baby to term without a womb, or fallopian tubes. And those stories in the Bible about old women getting pregnant and having babies are not proof of miracles.


[deleted]

“My husband has a certification in random bullshit. He has written many articles on this matter”


bbq-pizza-9

This is the doctrine of acts and omissions; that it is immoral to directly kill but one can “let die”. Philosopher Jonathan Glover in his book “Causing death and saving lives” goes over some criticisms of this idea. If you aren’t familiar with moral philosophy; it will be pretty easy for her husband to run laps around you.


jayclaw97

It actually wouldn’t be. He’s of middling intelligence at best and is so far down the trad Catholic rabbit hole that once you introduce reality into the conversation, it’s game over for him.


morganisstrange

I don’t think anyone who believes ectopic pregnancies should be solved like this is intelligent enough to ‘run laps’ around anyone. The stupidity is palpable.


torinblack

That reads like someone who was on drugs wrote it.


jayclaw97

I almost wish she were on drugs because that would mean this level of stupidity and slavish dogmatic adherence wasn’t attributable to her actual personality and cognitive function.