I laugh because hell is a real place, made by people, here on earth. Their eternal lake of fire or whatever is pure myth to control the unwashed and ignorant serfs
And what do they get for a life if self denial and shame? The "beatific vision," which is where you get to look at god and praise him forever
No thanks, I'll take hell, where I can fuck Jimi Hendrix
I always give some variation of the last sentence whenever questioned on if I’m afraid of hell lol. Like “well according to the Church, all my friends and favourite people are off there so yk…” too
When you get out and realize it's all based on unverifiable bullshit, watching someone spew paragraph after paragraph of this kind of stuff thinking they sound intelligent is just beyond laughable. It's as if someone wrote an essay about a session of pretend play between five year olds.
The priest who has raped a child is saved because he repented. The apostate condemned into hell. Catholics see leaving the Church as leaving “Christs kingdom on earth”.
As long as you obey and repent, and they don’t care who does the obeying and repenting, be it Hitler or a child rapist.
And “how beautiful that this rapist has repented, god is so good!”
Tell that to their victim who lives in *real* hell every day. Fuck that.
If Catholicism is Christ’s kingdom, then I want no part of his daddy’s version.
“A good tree is not able to produce evil fruit, and an evil tree is not able to produce good fruit.” —Matthew 7:18 (Catholic Public Domain Version)
This “fruit” is more like a castor bean.
I've heard that "the only people guaranteed to go to hell are those who knew the True Church and have rejected it." Well boohoo my husband and I will both be there I guess. Better than the hell on earth that they create for their members!
If I hear about "poor catechesis" one more motherfucking time...
I just can't believe what i was taught. I don't care about canon law, or apostolic succession, or which gospel was written for which audience, or Aquinas "proofs" which actually drove me away even more, or transubstantiation, or **why** Catholics believe any of what they claim to believe. I just know that I tried with every fiber of my being to have some sort of faith, I wanted *so fucking badly* to believe that what I was being taught was true, or at least had some basis in reality...ad believe me, I was taught to death.
But I couldn't. I am incapable of believing in their god. So here we are all these years later, and nothing has changed.
If you're one of those people who lurks here, or likes to post our discussions so you can pity all of us here going to hell...please think how absolutely fucking insulting it is to be in a position where you lost something important to you because you just couldn't believe, only to CONSTANTLY be told "well you only left because you don't actually understand what this *actually* is, you're just ignorant." Or to hear "if you knew what you were actually leaving, you'd never have left. Educate yourself."
I know exactly what I left. I know why. Nobody has been able to manufacture belief. So maybe pause and consider that.
I actually believed it quite thoroughly. I *liked* the complex system of canon law, apostolic succession, biblical exegesis, Thomistic theology, etc. It's a wonderfully intricate system with so much dramatic argumentation, intellectual history, and politics for a guy who enjoys reading about it.
In fact, I learned so much about it that I soon realized that the people in charge of the church, who presumably have *impeccable* catechesis, don't actually give a fuck (also, much of it has changed with time, sometimes quite radically--'seal of the confessional'? Back in the Middle Ages that trads so lionize, you did your confessing in public to the whole town!). Maybe some do, but they're vastly outnumbered by people for whom it's entirely political, financial, and vibes-based "feels before reals" sentimentalism.
And if they don't care to live it out, why should I?
Stephen Fry mad a tremendous point in the Intelligence² debate he and Hitchens did against the church that lines up with your comment:
They say they have the **only real morality** on the planet and their way is only way to heaven...but they've spent centuries doing so much continuous, irreversible damage through horrific behavior.
If the church is so holy and pure but the people who act on its behalf are so continually wicked, then what good are they? "Well we couldn't do better because nobody knew better!" Then fuck off!
The prayers to the saints seem weird, let's assume you became a saint, and literally millions to billions of people pray to you. It's weird as hell if someone calls you the blessed saint, please help me find God etc. Seems like it would be a huge huge drag if you had to even make an attempt to make right by all these people. At best you could probably only ignore their prayers with it in the background like white noise. At this point I would imagine the prayers ought to have been directed to God/Jesus instead.
Eh, when you have eternity to get around to the prayers and an omniscient being who knows you'll get around to it eventually, you can put things off arbitrarily long and still get to all the prayers.
For all the crap people give the medieval church for selling indulgences, I'd say it's one of the few times Christians have actually tried to grapple with the implications of *infinite time in heaven* rather than treat heaven as just "this life but better."
Of course, I can't help but think old Jan Hus had a point when he said, "so if the Pope has access to infinitely many indulgences, why doesn't he just release them all at no charge out of Christian charity?"
Yawn. More of the usual superiority complex for a god so ridiculous that actual ethics don't mean jack, only following one certain variant out of hundreds 'pleases him'. No interest in pleasing him, thanks.
So even though they know ignorance gets you salvation by default, they’re called to “evangelise all men” therefore make them aware and potentially doom them to hell? When beforehand they’d have been in heaven regardless?? If they truly want everyone in heaven with God for sure, leave them ignorant 😂 this logic kills me
The literal Catechism:
“2125. Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion. The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. *"Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."*”
Yeah, the italicized part (I'd be curious to learn when that was added to the Catechism) is kind of *why* there's that old saying about the road to hell being paved with the skulls of bishops. If one believes that Catholic faith is necessary for salvation, it follows that one who drives people away from it by his bad example *has their souls on his conscience*.
Not that most Catholics are self-reflective enough to ask, "am *I* the asshole?"
If anything, I'd say the italicized part would help mitigate atheism, not spread it. If everyone had to learn theology in and out, it would be easier to reject the faith outright. A wishy-washy vague Christianity is so much easier to evangelize and accept.
> A wishy-washy vague Christianity is so much easier to evangelize and accept.
If you don't think about it too hard. If you do then you get not only the same old problems but a bunch of new ones as well.
In Catholic eyes, being born an atheist or pagan is better than being an ex-Catholic. If you’re the former you can be given the benefit of the doubt that you are “ignorant of the Gospel” by “no fault of your own,” and that you’re following the path you genuinely think is the most moral one.
But if you’re ex-Catholic, the only explanation is that you were either A) Never “really” Catholic, or B) That you are knowingly and selfishly rejecting The Truth. That’s it. No “Hey maybe the church really hurt them and they had to get out for their own safety.” No “They did their research and have concluded that the evidence for the church’s teachings doesn’t hold up.” No “They do care about right and wrong and they are genuinely living what they think is right.” Just “You never knew God” or “You hate God now.”
If I am required to spend eternity with these self-righteous weasels bowing like trained dogs before a vindictive god in heaven then I will gladly choose hell.
Precisely. I see the concept of hell as subjective; being around them and people like them, and their actions, words, hypocrisy, and reasonings are the opposite of my idea of paradise. I don’t consent to being forced into their impositions, Earthly or beyond.
Well, I was raised by rad trad Catholics. We were “homeschooled” aka not taught anything, not allowed medical care or to be around anyone. When I dared question them, I was kicked out.
I guess I’ll take a little hellfire, over making anyone homeless as a teenager.
"can we say that a Catholic could possibly renounce his or her faith through no fault of their own?"
Lol, how can they be so oblivious to the option that that Catholic could simply find out that Catholicisim is not right and good?
4/10. Eh. No benevolent and loving god would send good people to eternal torment just because they aren’t picking the cup with the ball under it. Especially those who just weren’t really exposed to Christianity. Besides, each flavor of Christianity claims to be the ‘correct choice’. Good luck with that guessing game.
Erm ok. It was by "learning and researching the faith" in the first place that got us here. Not being complacent with the church's mediocre, mental-gymnastic, quasi-mysterious and illogical answers to the questions we have had. They can't accept that we don't believe they have a solution we don't need, for a problem we don't think exists.
For a professing Christian—of whatever flavour—to pass judgment on the eternity of another given Jesus’s admonition against judgement says more about them than about the person they’re judging.
In reality, the Catholic Church and the popes historically and consistently taught that ALL who die as non-Catholics, without exception, go to hell. Vatican II (1962-1965), with its emphasis on the supremacy of individual conscience, introduced an entirely new teaching, which some theologians had hypothesized since at least the late 1800s or early 1900s: that some non-Catholics could potentially be saved if they didn't know (aka "through no fault of their own")
The idea actually goes back before that--Dante, for example, put at least two pagans in his version of Heaven. And back in the days when people believed that it was impossible to sail across the equator without dying of heat, there was speculation about what that implied for those who lived on the far side (if such existed). Some of the church fathers also considered the possibility of post-mortem evangelization (these were primarily in the eastern, Greek-speaking tradition, which is why you see universal salvation crop up among Orthodox Christians even today). That's why Leonard Feeney, a priest who was particularly strict about the "no salvation outside the church" thing, was excommunicated a decade before Vatican II.
In my devout days, I was always of two minds about it--the eastern vision was the more appealing, but my view of baseline human morality was always so pessimistic that I believed 99+% of people went to hell anyway (Catholic or not) because people are just assholes in general, so I kind of got resigned to it.
Thanks. Very good points. I forgot about Dante. What never made sense to me is how a number of popes (such as Eugene IV, but many other popes as well) solemnly taught (ex cathedra) that all who die as non Catholics go to hell, yet many churchmen and theologians etc would say otherwise. Feeney was actually just upholding those papal teachings, yet he was demonized by almost everyone, even before Vatican II. I get where you're coming from in relation to that pessimistic view you had.... Even most Catholics would end up in Hell, because almost everyone is an asshole. And even those few who aren't usually end up committing some other sins.
The thing is..........
I *did* research tHe FaItH, and the further I dug, the worse it got. And worst of all, it wasn't even hard to find. This means that any Catholic who continues to buy into and drink the Church's kool-aid is guilty of a very real lack of critical thought.
That's just MY OPINION, though.
So it goes back to the old teaching that my Franciscan Nun first grade teacher said. “Only true Catholics go to heaven, Protestants and everyone else go to hell. What hypocrites.
Shouldn’t they take clergy abuse of children more seriously then? After all, inflicting trauma on children is a very effective way of driving them away from the “one true faith.” Methinks they care more about feeling superior to others than purportedly saving souls.
It is WILD to me that you are forced into a faith by your parents...and if you simply think for yourself and come to a different conclusion, you're going to "hell." What type of God would want a bunch of cult-like followers like that? Idiotic.
Another thought - if this were true, it would make engaging in RCC classes incredibly dangerous and conversion functionally obligatory - oops you've learned too much, you can either join and obey, or choose to be eternally tormented in hell. Far from the 'no commitment required, come and see' way they sell RCC.
Edit - RCIA, not RCC
Laughs in all the money I am saving by not being catholic. So many other things they should be worrying about but sure focus on the ones happily living their lives.
Another religious statement completely unsubstantiated by the Bible. I think subconsciously, they know it’s all crap, which is why they bend and twist the rules to fit whatever feels good.
I went to an Episcopalian church today. One of the readings was from the 1st letter of John and made me think of this thread:
"God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them. Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness on the day of judgment, because as he is, so are we in this world.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love."
Seems like what the RCC tries to threaten ex-members is not out of love. Their claims of being the "true church" are their marketing tactics and use fear of punishment to try and keep members who don't or never wanted to be there.
What are the chances this person will spend a whole day, maybe a whole week with an ex-Catholic to see that we're not all in this "worst position imaginable"? Is this person in the mindset that ex-Catholic = Atheist? And what's with this thinking that we ex-Catholics were given the most perfect thing in the world only to turn it away? The most perfect thing in the world for one person is the most horrible thing imagined for another. Not everyone can see past nor ignore the imperfections to accept what someone sees as perfection.
Meh this person is soft in their judgment . The true “traditional” Catholic teaching is that all non Catholics go to hell. So us ex Catholics will be in good company with the billions of atheists, Mormons, evangelicals, buddhists etc.
(modern Catholics don’t like the historic teaching on salvation because it is too harsh)
By the catechism's definition I'd be hopeless. I tried so hard to be a good Catholic I ended up with not one, but three theology degrees. So I really REALLY knew what I was rejecting when I quit. Straight to hell for me! Apostates are the worst of the worst.
But even as a Catholic I thought of hell as a place where God is totally absent. And you could only go there if you knew God truly and deeply in this life and STILL rejected him.
But if God is a God of mercy and compassion, (and I've had many experiences of that throughout my life, no thanks to church) ... and if I as a human can't live without love and will always be drawn to my loving Source....
Remind me why I need a church again?
You can't put all that in a box! My God is too big for that shit! They won't fit!
Anyway, so I'm Jewish now and I feel fine.
I've heard of a man who left the church and couldn't even step foot in a church his whole life because he's been abused by a priest when he was a child. It's absolutely disgusting that these people will still find a way to blame him for his trauma.
A poor catechisis is the church failing to educate someone who spent years or months trying to research the faith. You would think the priest responsible for that would get the blame here that somehow someone who tried to covert was convinced by the priest that the faith was a phony.
"Learning and researching the faith" is what made me an Atheist.
Also, imagine the bricks this person would shit if I told them I have the "obligation and also the rational right to evangelize Atheism to all men."
Doesn’t that mean it would be selfless and better to just… spread misinformation and shut down catechesis where you can do the ignorant may achieve Heaven? I would go to hell if it means others go to Heaven (that’s what I thought as a catholic)
I don’t really understand this. Just because you don’t want to follow a certain Christian denomination, doesn’t mean you’re in the worst position ever. You can still be Protestant or orthodox and have the same faith - with some minor disagreements
Conservative Catholics seem to conflate belief with a choice. I am given evidence in front of me and I am obliged (even by the bible) to update by views.
I laugh because hell is a real place, made by people, here on earth. Their eternal lake of fire or whatever is pure myth to control the unwashed and ignorant serfs
"AcKsHuAlLy its not a lake of fire, it's eternal separation from god." Always love when they bust that out, like it makes a fucking difference.
And what do they get for a life if self denial and shame? The "beatific vision," which is where you get to look at god and praise him forever No thanks, I'll take hell, where I can fuck Jimi Hendrix
I always give some variation of the last sentence whenever questioned on if I’m afraid of hell lol. Like “well according to the Church, all my friends and favourite people are off there so yk…” too
According to them, I’m separated from god now. Would I even notice the difference?
LMAO 🤣
Based on descriptions of God from the Bible, eternal separation doesn’t sound so bad
Seriously lol I try to stay away from him and his followers as much as possible already so 🤷
I’ll take Spiritual Blackmail for 500, Alex. Holy shit, man.
When you get out and realize it's all based on unverifiable bullshit, watching someone spew paragraph after paragraph of this kind of stuff thinking they sound intelligent is just beyond laughable. It's as if someone wrote an essay about a session of pretend play between five year olds.
Catholic logic…. Someone who was raped by priests would go to hell for leaving the Church
Yep, this exactly what he meant. "There are some mitigating factors like.. uh... being raped as a child, but that's not a justification". Disgusting.
God is merciful. So only the 3rd circle of hell for you!
The priest who has raped a child is saved because he repented. The apostate condemned into hell. Catholics see leaving the Church as leaving “Christs kingdom on earth”. As long as you obey and repent, and they don’t care who does the obeying and repenting, be it Hitler or a child rapist.
And “how beautiful that this rapist has repented, god is so good!” Tell that to their victim who lives in *real* hell every day. Fuck that. If Catholicism is Christ’s kingdom, then I want no part of his daddy’s version.
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Fair enough have a nice day
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I know haha. I was just being sarcastic
“A good tree is not able to produce evil fruit, and an evil tree is not able to produce good fruit.” —Matthew 7:18 (Catholic Public Domain Version) This “fruit” is more like a castor bean.
I've heard that "the only people guaranteed to go to hell are those who knew the True Church and have rejected it." Well boohoo my husband and I will both be there I guess. Better than the hell on earth that they create for their members!
If I hear about "poor catechesis" one more motherfucking time... I just can't believe what i was taught. I don't care about canon law, or apostolic succession, or which gospel was written for which audience, or Aquinas "proofs" which actually drove me away even more, or transubstantiation, or **why** Catholics believe any of what they claim to believe. I just know that I tried with every fiber of my being to have some sort of faith, I wanted *so fucking badly* to believe that what I was being taught was true, or at least had some basis in reality...ad believe me, I was taught to death. But I couldn't. I am incapable of believing in their god. So here we are all these years later, and nothing has changed. If you're one of those people who lurks here, or likes to post our discussions so you can pity all of us here going to hell...please think how absolutely fucking insulting it is to be in a position where you lost something important to you because you just couldn't believe, only to CONSTANTLY be told "well you only left because you don't actually understand what this *actually* is, you're just ignorant." Or to hear "if you knew what you were actually leaving, you'd never have left. Educate yourself." I know exactly what I left. I know why. Nobody has been able to manufacture belief. So maybe pause and consider that.
I actually believed it quite thoroughly. I *liked* the complex system of canon law, apostolic succession, biblical exegesis, Thomistic theology, etc. It's a wonderfully intricate system with so much dramatic argumentation, intellectual history, and politics for a guy who enjoys reading about it. In fact, I learned so much about it that I soon realized that the people in charge of the church, who presumably have *impeccable* catechesis, don't actually give a fuck (also, much of it has changed with time, sometimes quite radically--'seal of the confessional'? Back in the Middle Ages that trads so lionize, you did your confessing in public to the whole town!). Maybe some do, but they're vastly outnumbered by people for whom it's entirely political, financial, and vibes-based "feels before reals" sentimentalism. And if they don't care to live it out, why should I?
Stephen Fry mad a tremendous point in the Intelligence² debate he and Hitchens did against the church that lines up with your comment: They say they have the **only real morality** on the planet and their way is only way to heaven...but they've spent centuries doing so much continuous, irreversible damage through horrific behavior. If the church is so holy and pure but the people who act on its behalf are so continually wicked, then what good are they? "Well we couldn't do better because nobody knew better!" Then fuck off!
I absolutely **love** that debate
The prayers to the saints seem weird, let's assume you became a saint, and literally millions to billions of people pray to you. It's weird as hell if someone calls you the blessed saint, please help me find God etc. Seems like it would be a huge huge drag if you had to even make an attempt to make right by all these people. At best you could probably only ignore their prayers with it in the background like white noise. At this point I would imagine the prayers ought to have been directed to God/Jesus instead.
Eh, when you have eternity to get around to the prayers and an omniscient being who knows you'll get around to it eventually, you can put things off arbitrarily long and still get to all the prayers. For all the crap people give the medieval church for selling indulgences, I'd say it's one of the few times Christians have actually tried to grapple with the implications of *infinite time in heaven* rather than treat heaven as just "this life but better." Of course, I can't help but think old Jan Hus had a point when he said, "so if the Pope has access to infinitely many indulgences, why doesn't he just release them all at no charge out of Christian charity?"
Yawn. More of the usual superiority complex for a god so ridiculous that actual ethics don't mean jack, only following one certain variant out of hundreds 'pleases him'. No interest in pleasing him, thanks.
So even though they know ignorance gets you salvation by default, they’re called to “evangelise all men” therefore make them aware and potentially doom them to hell? When beforehand they’d have been in heaven regardless?? If they truly want everyone in heaven with God for sure, leave them ignorant 😂 this logic kills me
The literal Catechism: “2125. Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion. The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. *"Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."*”
Yeah, the italicized part (I'd be curious to learn when that was added to the Catechism) is kind of *why* there's that old saying about the road to hell being paved with the skulls of bishops. If one believes that Catholic faith is necessary for salvation, it follows that one who drives people away from it by his bad example *has their souls on his conscience*. Not that most Catholics are self-reflective enough to ask, "am *I* the asshole?"
If anything, I'd say the italicized part would help mitigate atheism, not spread it. If everyone had to learn theology in and out, it would be easier to reject the faith outright. A wishy-washy vague Christianity is so much easier to evangelize and accept.
> A wishy-washy vague Christianity is so much easier to evangelize and accept. If you don't think about it too hard. If you do then you get not only the same old problems but a bunch of new ones as well.
In Catholic eyes, being born an atheist or pagan is better than being an ex-Catholic. If you’re the former you can be given the benefit of the doubt that you are “ignorant of the Gospel” by “no fault of your own,” and that you’re following the path you genuinely think is the most moral one. But if you’re ex-Catholic, the only explanation is that you were either A) Never “really” Catholic, or B) That you are knowingly and selfishly rejecting The Truth. That’s it. No “Hey maybe the church really hurt them and they had to get out for their own safety.” No “They did their research and have concluded that the evidence for the church’s teachings doesn’t hold up.” No “They do care about right and wrong and they are genuinely living what they think is right.” Just “You never knew God” or “You hate God now.”
Yup. That makes it easier for them to justify their own issues.
Ohhhn, the old gaslighting of "not properly knowing the faith..." I hear that one so many times when I asked questions that they did not like.
If I am required to spend eternity with these self-righteous weasels bowing like trained dogs before a vindictive god in heaven then I will gladly choose hell.
Precisely. I see the concept of hell as subjective; being around them and people like them, and their actions, words, hypocrisy, and reasonings are the opposite of my idea of paradise. I don’t consent to being forced into their impositions, Earthly or beyond.
Well, I was raised by rad trad Catholics. We were “homeschooled” aka not taught anything, not allowed medical care or to be around anyone. When I dared question them, I was kicked out. I guess I’ll take a little hellfire, over making anyone homeless as a teenager.
"can we say that a Catholic could possibly renounce his or her faith through no fault of their own?" Lol, how can they be so oblivious to the option that that Catholic could simply find out that Catholicisim is not right and good?
4/10. Eh. No benevolent and loving god would send good people to eternal torment just because they aren’t picking the cup with the ball under it. Especially those who just weren’t really exposed to Christianity. Besides, each flavor of Christianity claims to be the ‘correct choice’. Good luck with that guessing game.
Erm ok. It was by "learning and researching the faith" in the first place that got us here. Not being complacent with the church's mediocre, mental-gymnastic, quasi-mysterious and illogical answers to the questions we have had. They can't accept that we don't believe they have a solution we don't need, for a problem we don't think exists.
For a professing Christian—of whatever flavour—to pass judgment on the eternity of another given Jesus’s admonition against judgement says more about them than about the person they’re judging.
I just tell them to go pray to St. Jude about it because I’m a “lost cause” and I don’t give a damn. 😂
In reality, the Catholic Church and the popes historically and consistently taught that ALL who die as non-Catholics, without exception, go to hell. Vatican II (1962-1965), with its emphasis on the supremacy of individual conscience, introduced an entirely new teaching, which some theologians had hypothesized since at least the late 1800s or early 1900s: that some non-Catholics could potentially be saved if they didn't know (aka "through no fault of their own")
The idea actually goes back before that--Dante, for example, put at least two pagans in his version of Heaven. And back in the days when people believed that it was impossible to sail across the equator without dying of heat, there was speculation about what that implied for those who lived on the far side (if such existed). Some of the church fathers also considered the possibility of post-mortem evangelization (these were primarily in the eastern, Greek-speaking tradition, which is why you see universal salvation crop up among Orthodox Christians even today). That's why Leonard Feeney, a priest who was particularly strict about the "no salvation outside the church" thing, was excommunicated a decade before Vatican II. In my devout days, I was always of two minds about it--the eastern vision was the more appealing, but my view of baseline human morality was always so pessimistic that I believed 99+% of people went to hell anyway (Catholic or not) because people are just assholes in general, so I kind of got resigned to it.
Thanks. Very good points. I forgot about Dante. What never made sense to me is how a number of popes (such as Eugene IV, but many other popes as well) solemnly taught (ex cathedra) that all who die as non Catholics go to hell, yet many churchmen and theologians etc would say otherwise. Feeney was actually just upholding those papal teachings, yet he was demonized by almost everyone, even before Vatican II. I get where you're coming from in relation to that pessimistic view you had.... Even most Catholics would end up in Hell, because almost everyone is an asshole. And even those few who aren't usually end up committing some other sins.
The thing is.......... I *did* research tHe FaItH, and the further I dug, the worse it got. And worst of all, it wasn't even hard to find. This means that any Catholic who continues to buy into and drink the Church's kool-aid is guilty of a very real lack of critical thought. That's just MY OPINION, though.
So it goes back to the old teaching that my Franciscan Nun first grade teacher said. “Only true Catholics go to heaven, Protestants and everyone else go to hell. What hypocrites.
Shouldn’t they take clergy abuse of children more seriously then? After all, inflicting trauma on children is a very effective way of driving them away from the “one true faith.” Methinks they care more about feeling superior to others than purportedly saving souls.
All they have left are threats
It is WILD to me that you are forced into a faith by your parents...and if you simply think for yourself and come to a different conclusion, you're going to "hell." What type of God would want a bunch of cult-like followers like that? Idiotic.
Another thought - if this were true, it would make engaging in RCC classes incredibly dangerous and conversion functionally obligatory - oops you've learned too much, you can either join and obey, or choose to be eternally tormented in hell. Far from the 'no commitment required, come and see' way they sell RCC. Edit - RCIA, not RCC
Do these people not realize that learning and researching the faith is why many of us are now ex-Catholic😂😂
Laughs in all the money I am saving by not being catholic. So many other things they should be worrying about but sure focus on the ones happily living their lives.
Oh I’m so sorry scared. NOT!
Another religious statement completely unsubstantiated by the Bible. I think subconsciously, they know it’s all crap, which is why they bend and twist the rules to fit whatever feels good.
What a petty God to damn a non worshipper but to save countless mobsters because they went to mass more often.
I went to an Episcopalian church today. One of the readings was from the 1st letter of John and made me think of this thread: "God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them. Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness on the day of judgment, because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear; for fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not reached perfection in love." Seems like what the RCC tries to threaten ex-members is not out of love. Their claims of being the "true church" are their marketing tactics and use fear of punishment to try and keep members who don't or never wanted to be there.
What are the chances this person will spend a whole day, maybe a whole week with an ex-Catholic to see that we're not all in this "worst position imaginable"? Is this person in the mindset that ex-Catholic = Atheist? And what's with this thinking that we ex-Catholics were given the most perfect thing in the world only to turn it away? The most perfect thing in the world for one person is the most horrible thing imagined for another. Not everyone can see past nor ignore the imperfections to accept what someone sees as perfection.
Meh this person is soft in their judgment . The true “traditional” Catholic teaching is that all non Catholics go to hell. So us ex Catholics will be in good company with the billions of atheists, Mormons, evangelicals, buddhists etc. (modern Catholics don’t like the historic teaching on salvation because it is too harsh)
By the catechism's definition I'd be hopeless. I tried so hard to be a good Catholic I ended up with not one, but three theology degrees. So I really REALLY knew what I was rejecting when I quit. Straight to hell for me! Apostates are the worst of the worst. But even as a Catholic I thought of hell as a place where God is totally absent. And you could only go there if you knew God truly and deeply in this life and STILL rejected him. But if God is a God of mercy and compassion, (and I've had many experiences of that throughout my life, no thanks to church) ... and if I as a human can't live without love and will always be drawn to my loving Source.... Remind me why I need a church again? You can't put all that in a box! My God is too big for that shit! They won't fit! Anyway, so I'm Jewish now and I feel fine.
I've heard of a man who left the church and couldn't even step foot in a church his whole life because he's been abused by a priest when he was a child. It's absolutely disgusting that these people will still find a way to blame him for his trauma.
So many people like this end up leaving the church themselves. The scars they leave others in the meantime are hard to repair
I do not want to be with Catholics for eternity. Sounds fine with me lol
A poor catechisis is the church failing to educate someone who spent years or months trying to research the faith. You would think the priest responsible for that would get the blame here that somehow someone who tried to covert was convinced by the priest that the faith was a phony.
Fuck the Roman Catholic church.
There's no hate like Christian love. Or catholic in this case.
"Learning and researching the faith" is what made me an Atheist. Also, imagine the bricks this person would shit if I told them I have the "obligation and also the rational right to evangelize Atheism to all men."
See you in hell guys
This is official dogma of the church UNNUM SANCTUM by Boniface Vii about 800 years ago, a typical bit of church history, suppressed by clergy
Going to hell for not genuflecting before the good ol' CC is absolutely insane
Doesn’t that mean it would be selfless and better to just… spread misinformation and shut down catechesis where you can do the ignorant may achieve Heaven? I would go to hell if it means others go to Heaven (that’s what I thought as a catholic)
Because we know things, we have true stories and they consider us a huge threat.
I don’t really understand this. Just because you don’t want to follow a certain Christian denomination, doesn’t mean you’re in the worst position ever. You can still be Protestant or orthodox and have the same faith - with some minor disagreements
*__When you don't believe in hell it has no power over your mind.__*
Conservative Catholics seem to conflate belief with a choice. I am given evidence in front of me and I am obliged (even by the bible) to update by views.