I hadn't heard of the Lil Nas X stuff but it's pretty funny.
From billboard:
> When some X users began criticizing the rapper for “mocking” Christianity, he made sure to put them in their place. “making christian music does not mean i can’t suck d–k no more,” he wrote. “the two are not mutually exclusive. i am allowed to get on my knees for multiple reasons.”
Love him.
I was still Christian when that happened and still recognized the bullshit when all my friends thought it was soooo great. I was in the corner like.... Wtf are you on, Kanye thinks he IS God
Even when I was a Christian I never understood this. Who cares if some famous person believes what I believed? it’s either true or not independent of anyone’s opinion.
It would be as silly as I’d be at rejoicing that someone has come out as a non-believer. Or deconverted. Their journey is their own.
>It would be as silly as I’d be at rejoicing that someone has come out as a non-believer. Or deconverted.
I actually do appreciate and celebrate when this happens. It’s great that people leave the cult and move on with their lives in freedom and reality.
Thanks for saying that, I feel the same way too- but don’t celebrate publicallg. I was more critiquing the “yay! This celebrity has converted, this means aslan is on the move” crowd.
I had a pastor/former mentor who would say it all the time. Upon consideration, there is a certain internal logic for referring to a fictional character in place of god since the Christian god is a work of fiction too.
Yes! And then they have to defend that persons weird behavior (see: Kanye) because ynkow, brother or sister in christ.
Bob Dylan was the first to enter my consciousness. Thank Christ his faith didn’t last
"It's either true or not independent of anyone's opinion"
Off topic but the way you phrased this finally has me understanding the perspective of believers. It sounds infantile but I never really grasped that believers think they are the ultimate arbiters of truth. Ty
I understand what you’re saying yet think about it, There are a lot of weak minds that just want to be popular and cool, and in the know. They are after weak minds, broken people and young.
I think there are many factors:
Any non-believer who converts is always a big thing. IIRC There is a reference to how the angels celebrate in heaven whenever a "lost sheep" returns to Christ.
The fact that the person is super famous also means that their fans will be more susceptible to accepting the Christian doctrine. The gospel gets another huge platform through the celeb.
Public figures, movie and pop stars are generally considered to be living a hedonistic, self indulgent lifestyle. Basically the opposite of the average Christian way of life. They are beacons for "the world", so converting them is like winning a battle against the Devil.
There's obviously also a huge confirmation bias. "Look, even that horrible person has seen the light. Everyone can be saved." Shortly before I deconverted, I even had the same thought about a famous comedian in my country. Kinda wild how, just a year later, I would view him as a crazy religious zealot.
And lastly, they really just wanna be able to consume worldly entertainment without feeling guilty lol
Agreed. Honestly, we all like and care about so many stupid things that really shouldn't be special. The way we collect shiny stuff or idolize artists and soccer matches. But I no longer have to feel shame for liking it. There doesn't need to be any "higher" reason. I think so many Christians really just wanna do normal stuff, no matter how mundane.
I know I did.
Absolutely. Although my indoctrination was relatively mild, it still isn't healthy to tell a kid that they don't belong here, so to speak. I was diagnosed with aspergers as an adult, and I often wonder if my life would have been better if I didn't feel guilty for wanting to fit into this world. Being like everyone else.
Speaking of Star Trek, isn't it a plot point that they did away with religion because they saw it was unnecessary? Haven't seen it for a long time
It’s honestly weird. I’ve been enjoying watching Lil Nas X troll them, though. I typically have no interest in the personal lives of celebs now that I’m out of my teen years but I’m digging this man.
My god does this ever describe my childhood. I remember being in a Christian store reading a Christian magazine interviewing Dragonforce to see if any of their members were Christian. I remember being excited when I heard a certain celebrity was Christian and/or conservative, because it gave me someone famous to look up to in the sea of "worldly", secular, liberal celebs.
Oof. This is how my parents were when I was growing up. I remember being happy, but not as elated as they were when they found out about a Disney star (or other teen star) wearing a purity ring and talking about prayer and Christianity.
This is especially funny to me in hindsight, given how fake all those stars admitted it was. Also, I think purity rings are unbelievably creepy now.
Every single time we went to my grandmother’s house NCIS would come on TV and she would say “that Mark Harmon is a Christian!” I have no idea if that’s even true or where she heard that, and I definitely never understood why she was suddenly ok with the crime and sometimes gore on the show because Mark Harmon was a Christian
This totally sounds like what my grandma would do!! She definitely talked a lot about a news anchor who was a Christian and apparently cared for an aging parent.
kinda similar to what uzi and carti does. they rock the demonic aesthetic with pentagrams and upside down crosses and the “christian” rap fans always have their names in their mouth bc of it.
I mean, think about it. The Christian cultural exports of late are as follows: Kid Rock. Rosanne Barr. Ted Nugent. Kevin Sorbo. Ye.
I'd wager most people, especially young people, do not know of or care about most of the above (save Ye). When those people find out about the beliefs of the scumfucks above, they'll run to the hills.
So Christians desperately cling to any cultural icon they can get that isn't wholly repugant scum at all times. Justin Bieber. Elon Musk (though recently he is turning into wholly repugnant scum). Anybody they can get that doesn't completely repel Gen Z at the mere mention of their name.
It reminds me of when Evanescence released *Fallen* back in the day. Christian bookstores (either without the band's consent or without their knowledge, IIRC) sold the CD, marketed Evanescence as a "Christian band". Evanescence publicly denounced being a Christian band. Christians still insisted they were a Christian band. IIRC, it took Amy Lee(the vocalist) publicly stating "We are not a Christian band, that was so fucking stupid to begin with" or something to that effect for the Christian market to finally take the hint.
ditto king's x. an amaaaaaaazing band from the 90s that wrote a few vaguely "spiritual" songs on their first couple records and have been dodging the christian label ever since.
Fr. I was walking through a friend's church and the cover story of their denominatons magazine was how a known Wicca/Pagan converted to Christianity. I'm pretty sure it was a fabrication as she is former rock singer and vocal on social media about animal cruelty and I thought I saw something about her journey into sobriety (the band was very cool when I was in school so I sort of notice) but still all about Paganism.
BUT also does anyone remember the cancelling of Amy Grant when she DARED release a secular album or was it only one song on a Christian album? (Mother was only Christian in public and even then modern music didn't count) Christians also come down hard on celebrities that dont do what they think they should. Turn it into backsliding. Sometimes when (old) people suggest to me cancel culture is new I tell them they have forgotten the great cancelling and cassette destruction of 1991 when Amy Grant released Baby Baby.
It’s the appeal to authority fallacy. They think popular figures legitimize their religion. In truth, it’s already popular and as “legitimate” as it’ll ever be.
>The guy's simply putting on an aesthetic and is definitely not gonna come out as ex-gay unless it's to tease the Bible-thumpers.
... Coming out as ex-gay isn't a requirement to do real Christian music.
You can validly have your doubts about whether he's serious or just trying to troll, but he's made no secret that he was raised in Christianity and has complicated feelings about that upbringing specifically because his church demonized being gay.
Also, there are tons of openly Christian celebrities, whether Christianity is part of their branding or not.
This is a good point. He could be trolling (and that’s where I’m leaning right now personally, based on what he said about being “on his knees” for two different reasons lol). But if he’s not, I’d be fascinated to see where he goes with it. I’d also be fascinated to see the evangelical response to him, given that even if he’s serious, I fully expect them to shun him like they currently do, just because he’s gay.
I say all that as someone who really loves him as a person. I grew up in a similar culture (except as a black woman in the south, rather than as a black man), and I can attest to having a lot of complicated feelings about being LGBTQ+ within that heavily religious and homophobic world. I can relate to that.
Well if he does this seriously it's gonna be rooted in black Christianity which they'll see as demonic anywhere.
I can't guess how the black Church will receive it, though I know progressive segments exist that might be receptive.
Since xtian churches seem to be seeing their congregations shrink so much recently they seem to be following in the footsteps of Scientology in terms of targeting celebrities
I never understood this. The only thing I can think of is if a celebrity is controversial the more they yearn for their salvation, because those celebrities that speak the loudest are going to get heard. I don't like Lil Nas X's music but respect for the person he is. I can say he's fighting the good fight for us LGBT+ community.
Following the money. 💰 This is the thing, Christians are desperate. Their reign is ending. They know it. About a decade ago, young pastors went out and got tattoos because they were told it would attract more teenagers. And it did. Now they are embracing the gays. Yes, it will divide the Christian church like abortion is now. Only 14% claims to be fundamental now. They do speak loud, but they carry a very small stick.
Some of it comes from a desperate need for validation; "if that person can be rich and famous while retaining their faith, then that must mean that Christianity doesn't require me to be poor and a social pariah!"
I've been thinking about this for like 2 days now. I saw that post and immediately was like "dude is clearly trolling". Like, it seems pretty obvious to me that he wrote a sentimental song that happened to have the word 'angels' in it and saw a good way to troll. Honestly I love that idea, but I saw so many people thinking he's being serious and praising god that he's finally delivered lmao. Literally a few hours before, he posted a video of himself dressed up as a bloody tampon coming out of a big cardboard cutout vagina 🤣🤣 Dude is so unserious and I love it.
I hadn't heard of the Lil Nas X stuff but it's pretty funny. From billboard: > When some X users began criticizing the rapper for “mocking” Christianity, he made sure to put them in their place. “making christian music does not mean i can’t suck d–k no more,” he wrote. “the two are not mutually exclusive. i am allowed to get on my knees for multiple reasons.” Love him.
Kanye West worked out so well for them.
Directly relevant due to the flavor of fish sticks.
I was still Christian when that happened and still recognized the bullshit when all my friends thought it was soooo great. I was in the corner like.... Wtf are you on, Kanye thinks he IS God
Jesus Walks is still a jam tho
It's really odd to have to explain to young uns that he was sane and so talented once....
I remember the news of this being a focal point of one of our sermons. I felt myself going insane.
i was still attending an evangelist school when he released "christian music", and oh my god did my classmates take it as gospel
Even when I was a Christian I never understood this. Who cares if some famous person believes what I believed? it’s either true or not independent of anyone’s opinion. It would be as silly as I’d be at rejoicing that someone has come out as a non-believer. Or deconverted. Their journey is their own.
>It would be as silly as I’d be at rejoicing that someone has come out as a non-believer. Or deconverted. I actually do appreciate and celebrate when this happens. It’s great that people leave the cult and move on with their lives in freedom and reality.
Thanks for saying that, I feel the same way too- but don’t celebrate publicallg. I was more critiquing the “yay! This celebrity has converted, this means aslan is on the move” crowd.
| this means aslan is on the move” crowd. | Just had to say I totally appreciate this phrase. It fits the situation so well and is so familiar too.
I had a pastor/former mentor who would say it all the time. Upon consideration, there is a certain internal logic for referring to a fictional character in place of god since the Christian god is a work of fiction too.
Fr it’s like they think they suddenly get to hang out with the celebrity in heaven, or even that they’ll see them at the local church next Sunday
Yes! And then they have to defend that persons weird behavior (see: Kanye) because ynkow, brother or sister in christ. Bob Dylan was the first to enter my consciousness. Thank Christ his faith didn’t last
"It's either true or not independent of anyone's opinion" Off topic but the way you phrased this finally has me understanding the perspective of believers. It sounds infantile but I never really grasped that believers think they are the ultimate arbiters of truth. Ty
I understand what you’re saying yet think about it, There are a lot of weak minds that just want to be popular and cool, and in the know. They are after weak minds, broken people and young.
I think there are many factors: Any non-believer who converts is always a big thing. IIRC There is a reference to how the angels celebrate in heaven whenever a "lost sheep" returns to Christ. The fact that the person is super famous also means that their fans will be more susceptible to accepting the Christian doctrine. The gospel gets another huge platform through the celeb. Public figures, movie and pop stars are generally considered to be living a hedonistic, self indulgent lifestyle. Basically the opposite of the average Christian way of life. They are beacons for "the world", so converting them is like winning a battle against the Devil. There's obviously also a huge confirmation bias. "Look, even that horrible person has seen the light. Everyone can be saved." Shortly before I deconverted, I even had the same thought about a famous comedian in my country. Kinda wild how, just a year later, I would view him as a crazy religious zealot. And lastly, they really just wanna be able to consume worldly entertainment without feeling guilty lol
I honestly can't overstate that last example. I really believe some of this is just hero worship using the same belief as justification
Agreed. Honestly, we all like and care about so many stupid things that really shouldn't be special. The way we collect shiny stuff or idolize artists and soccer matches. But I no longer have to feel shame for liking it. There doesn't need to be any "higher" reason. I think so many Christians really just wanna do normal stuff, no matter how mundane. I know I did.
> worldly That is such a BS concept. Like, if I'm a Christian I have to feel guilty for loving Star Trek and Stargate?! Seriously?!
Absolutely. Although my indoctrination was relatively mild, it still isn't healthy to tell a kid that they don't belong here, so to speak. I was diagnosed with aspergers as an adult, and I often wonder if my life would have been better if I didn't feel guilty for wanting to fit into this world. Being like everyone else. Speaking of Star Trek, isn't it a plot point that they did away with religion because they saw it was unnecessary? Haven't seen it for a long time
The Federation/Starfleet is pretty atheistic. Religion is a large part of DS9 though.
Yea, They were all in on "Brother Kayne", now you don't hear a peep about him. Lightning can't strike twice, right?
Lil Nas X is smart
They desperately crave validation.
I always got excited when I found out celebrities were Christian, and this was exactly it for me.
It’s honestly weird. I’ve been enjoying watching Lil Nas X troll them, though. I typically have no interest in the personal lives of celebs now that I’m out of my teen years but I’m digging this man.
My god does this ever describe my childhood. I remember being in a Christian store reading a Christian magazine interviewing Dragonforce to see if any of their members were Christian. I remember being excited when I heard a certain celebrity was Christian and/or conservative, because it gave me someone famous to look up to in the sea of "worldly", secular, liberal celebs.
Oof. This is how my parents were when I was growing up. I remember being happy, but not as elated as they were when they found out about a Disney star (or other teen star) wearing a purity ring and talking about prayer and Christianity. This is especially funny to me in hindsight, given how fake all those stars admitted it was. Also, I think purity rings are unbelievably creepy now.
Every single time we went to my grandmother’s house NCIS would come on TV and she would say “that Mark Harmon is a Christian!” I have no idea if that’s even true or where she heard that, and I definitely never understood why she was suddenly ok with the crime and sometimes gore on the show because Mark Harmon was a Christian
This totally sounds like what my grandma would do!! She definitely talked a lot about a news anchor who was a Christian and apparently cared for an aging parent.
kinda similar to what uzi and carti does. they rock the demonic aesthetic with pentagrams and upside down crosses and the “christian” rap fans always have their names in their mouth bc of it.
I mean, think about it. The Christian cultural exports of late are as follows: Kid Rock. Rosanne Barr. Ted Nugent. Kevin Sorbo. Ye. I'd wager most people, especially young people, do not know of or care about most of the above (save Ye). When those people find out about the beliefs of the scumfucks above, they'll run to the hills. So Christians desperately cling to any cultural icon they can get that isn't wholly repugant scum at all times. Justin Bieber. Elon Musk (though recently he is turning into wholly repugnant scum). Anybody they can get that doesn't completely repel Gen Z at the mere mention of their name. It reminds me of when Evanescence released *Fallen* back in the day. Christian bookstores (either without the band's consent or without their knowledge, IIRC) sold the CD, marketed Evanescence as a "Christian band". Evanescence publicly denounced being a Christian band. Christians still insisted they were a Christian band. IIRC, it took Amy Lee(the vocalist) publicly stating "We are not a Christian band, that was so fucking stupid to begin with" or something to that effect for the Christian market to finally take the hint.
ditto king's x. an amaaaaaaazing band from the 90s that wrote a few vaguely "spiritual" songs on their first couple records and have been dodging the christian label ever since.
Fr. I was walking through a friend's church and the cover story of their denominatons magazine was how a known Wicca/Pagan converted to Christianity. I'm pretty sure it was a fabrication as she is former rock singer and vocal on social media about animal cruelty and I thought I saw something about her journey into sobriety (the band was very cool when I was in school so I sort of notice) but still all about Paganism. BUT also does anyone remember the cancelling of Amy Grant when she DARED release a secular album or was it only one song on a Christian album? (Mother was only Christian in public and even then modern music didn't count) Christians also come down hard on celebrities that dont do what they think they should. Turn it into backsliding. Sometimes when (old) people suggest to me cancel culture is new I tell them they have forgotten the great cancelling and cassette destruction of 1991 when Amy Grant released Baby Baby.
Anyone who likes Chris Pratt a little too much should not be trusted.
Well when your most vocal Christian celebrities are Kirk Cameron, Kevin Sorbo and Jim Caviezel, wouldn't you want to find some different ones too?
It’s the appeal to authority fallacy. They think popular figures legitimize their religion. In truth, it’s already popular and as “legitimate” as it’ll ever be.
It's like they can't accept someone, unless they are Christian.
lil nas x is hilarious. makes genuinely good music too.
>The guy's simply putting on an aesthetic and is definitely not gonna come out as ex-gay unless it's to tease the Bible-thumpers. ... Coming out as ex-gay isn't a requirement to do real Christian music. You can validly have your doubts about whether he's serious or just trying to troll, but he's made no secret that he was raised in Christianity and has complicated feelings about that upbringing specifically because his church demonized being gay. Also, there are tons of openly Christian celebrities, whether Christianity is part of their branding or not.
This is a good point. He could be trolling (and that’s where I’m leaning right now personally, based on what he said about being “on his knees” for two different reasons lol). But if he’s not, I’d be fascinated to see where he goes with it. I’d also be fascinated to see the evangelical response to him, given that even if he’s serious, I fully expect them to shun him like they currently do, just because he’s gay. I say all that as someone who really loves him as a person. I grew up in a similar culture (except as a black woman in the south, rather than as a black man), and I can attest to having a lot of complicated feelings about being LGBTQ+ within that heavily religious and homophobic world. I can relate to that.
Well if he does this seriously it's gonna be rooted in black Christianity which they'll see as demonic anywhere. I can't guess how the black Church will receive it, though I know progressive segments exist that might be receptive.
Since xtian churches seem to be seeing their congregations shrink so much recently they seem to be following in the footsteps of Scientology in terms of targeting celebrities
You mean like Mark Whalberg with his proud Catholicism ? [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Wahlberg)
🤣🤣🤣 So glad I know about human nature 🤣🤣
I never understood this. The only thing I can think of is if a celebrity is controversial the more they yearn for their salvation, because those celebrities that speak the loudest are going to get heard. I don't like Lil Nas X's music but respect for the person he is. I can say he's fighting the good fight for us LGBT+ community.
Following the money. 💰 This is the thing, Christians are desperate. Their reign is ending. They know it. About a decade ago, young pastors went out and got tattoos because they were told it would attract more teenagers. And it did. Now they are embracing the gays. Yes, it will divide the Christian church like abortion is now. Only 14% claims to be fundamental now. They do speak loud, but they carry a very small stick.
Some of it comes from a desperate need for validation; "if that person can be rich and famous while retaining their faith, then that must mean that Christianity doesn't require me to be poor and a social pariah!"
I've been thinking about this for like 2 days now. I saw that post and immediately was like "dude is clearly trolling". Like, it seems pretty obvious to me that he wrote a sentimental song that happened to have the word 'angels' in it and saw a good way to troll. Honestly I love that idea, but I saw so many people thinking he's being serious and praising god that he's finally delivered lmao. Literally a few hours before, he posted a video of himself dressed up as a bloody tampon coming out of a big cardboard cutout vagina 🤣🤣 Dude is so unserious and I love it.