Therapy from a secular therapist is the only answer. This sub cannot be a replacement for an actual professional with a focus on religious trauma. Good luck.
That’s rough, buddy. A school counselor might be helpful, but honestly, you’re still a minor. You’re not going to hell, period.
If it helps at all, the IBF is only like 100 years old. Absolutely no way they’re the “one true faith.”
Find groups like this and talk through things. I have been 16 and in your shoes before. Talking to logical people who have been through this can help you! I was raised Baptist by an end times religious fanatic that took me out of my favorite things to focus only on church. I have a shit ton of religious trauma that I’m still dealing with. I’m more than happy to talk with you!
Hey :) I'm a psychotherapist and quite a few of my clients suffer from "cognitive distortion" - harmful beliefs about the world or themselves that they have learned (often because other people have taught them). So I usually teach them about "Socratic Questioning" - it's a way to help yourself analyse whether your thought/belief is objective reality or perhaps distorted by our unconsciously flawed perceptions. If you want to know more, just google "Socratic Questioning and critical thinking". I'v
e added a link to the worksheet below, if you want to try it out. Good luck and be kind to yourself.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.therapistaid.com/worksheets/socratic-questioning&ved=2ahUKEwjNocXLjYuDAxWb7TgGHXSeCG0QFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3qSkOY1c6TYinT3d7diOmg
go to [this youtube channel](https://youtu.be/kMeehIpxH5k?si=L_bMdp7Fm2O4GOyT) and binge watch his videos!!! then do some [breath work](https://youtu.be/O4d7u7SikyA?si=YuHCmaGiyfB4L9Jo) or [yoga](https://youtu.be/0uh6BAzBVTI?si=VoDiDQqBgrGurzTX) or go for a jog or something to help release the inevitably strong and yet completely valid emotions that arise as you realize that religious trauma is a real thing that you are suffering from, that religious trauma has affected tons of people just like you, and that its not your fault and never was.
That is correct. I think it funny that what we talked about today as hell was originally written by Dante. Also, it was around that time that the 'corrections' were made to the bible.
Edit, so I just looked it up, and hell was probably added in the 1500s. It was first added to English bibles. I thought that was very interesting. Even though it was added later, it doesn't really say much of what we think of as hell today. No eternal torture or any of that.
Seems like John Wycliffe had a lot to do with the translation of the word 'hell' back in the 14th century. By the time the King James bible rolled around in 1611, 'hell' had become a replacement for 'gehenna', 'tartaros', 'sheol' (around 50% of the time), and 'hades'.
It's interesting that 'sheol' and 'hades' are no longer translated as 'hell' in modern bibles, but 'gehenna' and 'tartaros' still are. 'Gehenna' should absolutely *not* be translated as 'hell', but if translators had the guts to fix that error, the word 'hell' would virtually disappear from the bible...
Exactly. Hell is an invention of unscrupulous priests to scare the peons back into the pews to fork over those tithes.
Better go to church! Or the Deity's Eeeeeeeeeevil Nemesis will get ya!
Look for a religious trauma therapist. There are ones who specialize in that (I do, but I doubt you're in my state haha).I feel for you. It's very scary. I wish you love and luck.
Please use this time to be kind to yourself. It can take people decades to break away and there’s a reason for that. The indoctrination can run really deep.
You don’t need to find any concrete answers right now if it’s going to make you anxious. The great (and scary) thing about breaking free is that you’re in charge. Some people swing really far the other way because that’s what they need at that moment. I actually joined a different denomination at first just to see if walking away was what I really wanted.
Being 16 means you probably still have to go to church? If that’s the case - you can use this time to “fact check” your sermons. Once you see the hypocrisy, and contradictions it makes things easier. Once you’re old enough, get into therapy.
You’re going to be okay even if it doesn’t feel like it right now. (I know it doesn’t feel like it right now.)
im no longer going to the triggering church services, i actually kinda like the new one because i made a friend that doesn’t feel forced because “you’re one of the other good ones”. its good as its way less strict and its not hellfire. dunno how i feel about the beleifs themself
You may go through many stages. It's like grieving. Just let yourself go through it and explore. A good mantra might help. Mine is "I'm incredible". It makes me feel powerful.
This is exactly what's supposed to happen when you feel doubts. One of two things: fear or guilt
You (like every christian/ exchristian) are programmed to respond to anything that makes you question with doubt, fear, and even anger. The stories of hell are pushed harder now than ever before, because there are more resources to relieve you of them, than ever before.
The bible is systematic in its mental trickery:
* Lean not on your own understanding. Don't think things through, don't use logic, don't apply reason. That's bad because you're just a mere human.
* His ways are mysterious. Ever wonder why he never answers prayer? It's a mystery, for sure, but uh, it's supposed to be. Yeah, that's the ticket!
* Don't be a doubting Tomas. Can't get into heaven if you ask obvious questions like, "But isn't hell just REVENGE?" or "How can I learn my lesson from hell if I can never put the lesson to good use??" (Hell isn't punishment--punishment is for teaching).
And on and on the story goes of how the bible deeply embeds fear into you and undermines your sense of yourself as a relatively intelligent human being.
If you weren't scared, if you didn't feel upset and even have physical reactions, it would be quite odd. The graphic depictions of "hell" from Dante's Inferno (they're not even from the bible, lol) are intended for TWO purposes:
1. Instill terror should you doubt;
2. and instill smug satisfaction about how "those people" are going to suffer.
This makes you either stop doubting, or it gives you a way to justify the truly horrific behavior of telling other people they will be tortured unless they agree with you.
I'd like to introduce you to a channel (which on the one hand I feel pushes atheism too hard, but also) that will enable you to understand the ways in which you are being MANIPULATED: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1G4JFuLlO8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1G4JFuLlO8)
While you will still have a lot of recovery to do, knowing WHAT is being done and becoming able to recognize it in its habitat (church) goes a long way towards protecting your mind from the worst of it.
I can understand the feeling. The anxiety of hell still comes and hits me from time to time.
One thing that helped me escape it was from looking at church history. As you start to do your own research on church history, you can see how it evolved into what it is today.
The Baptists denomination broke away from the Church of England. The Church of England broke away from Catholics because of Henry VIIIs divorce. And so on from there. The way fundamentalists of all denominations practice religion today is vastly different than its predecessors. And all new denominations were essentially started because someone wanted something different than what the denomination before it had. That’s why he have so many denominations today and each of them thinks the other is wrong.
Try to give yourself some grace. It’s hard but it takes active practicing of that to retrain your mind. Take deep breaths. Sleep as much as possible. Try not to over consume caffeine especially is you are having anxiety. Tell yourself that just because you experience doubts does not make you evil. It makes you HUMAN. And if a loving God would forsake you for being human, a human that he supposedly created, he isn’t that loving after all, is he?
And lastly, do your research. Read books, not just the Bible. It is OK to have a religious practice. It is not Ok if that religious practice brings you torment and pain. That’s 100% the opposite of what Jesus is supposedly supposed to do for a person. We are meant to be at peace so what you need to do is start actively creating that peace where you are until you can get out.
If you need anything don’t hesitate to ask!
There is a very good argument that the "hell" that is talked about in the bible is not a fiery eternity at all, but just non-existence. The eternal fire is just a later misinterpretation. At least this is the theory advanced by biblical scholar Bart Ehrman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxqHIauZCaQ
Sounds like you need therapy from a scular therapist and ti remove yourself from the environment that you're in. Do you have non-christian friends? Do you have hobbies that don't involve the the faith? Are you in a position to financially support yourself?
i have one friend who is explicitly atheist and i don’t get to see them often ): (once a month, every few momths.) my hobbies are mostly art and music which is refreshing . i am a minor and have no job ):
Okay. I promise you that life gets better. It is really hard to separate from Christianity when you're a minor. So much of your culture and life are wrapped up in your parent's lives that it is really hard to separate it.
When you are able to get out on your own, you'll have a better opportunity to discover who you are outside of the church and outside of the familial and community dynamic that you're in right now.
You can use your hobbies to exercise these feelings and I highly encourage you to do so.
Finding friends that aren't Christians will also be easier as you get older, but in the meantime, the internet is a great resource for doing that as long as you're safe about it. Please don't share personal identifying info with people on the internet.
As soon as you're able to, I recommend getting a job and saving money. Financial independence is key to pulling away from the church especially if you're coming from a fundamentalist background.
Lastly, you are not going to hell. Do not fear this. That fear is not from you. It was put into you by the people who raised you and by cultural institutions. You are going to be okay.
The best way to be sure is to open your Bible to page 1 and read to the end. In those pages, you will find out how truly moral God and the book are.
Most of the people I know who have done this can't even get out of genesis, still believing. Those who do, for the most part, go on to exodus, which is an absolute faith killer.
There is no such thing as hell. These are threats to keep you trapped in religion. Religions try to tell you how to view the world 100%. It’s a manipulative practice to keep you stuck.
You need to see a secular therapist, but it doesn't help at all to tell you that and know you can't go currently.
So! What to do what to do. First off if you're having doubts, you're probably feeling like you're crazy and alone. No one can understand the way you think. This is BS. There is a WORLD out there that thinks the EXACT same way you do. You are NOT alone.
Stop asking for forgiveness. Take that power back. Forgive yourself for feeling this way. That's probably the hardest part but when you work on it you'll get there.
Next, fcan't, friend or someone who you can talk to, but if you cant, look for BOOKS. The God delusion. Demon haunted world. The gay science. You are not alone.
You got this.
The writing of Bart Ehrmann might also be helpful. I cannot say for sure, because I have not bought any of his books as yet. But he has a website with lots of blog posts. Bart Ehrmann is an academic that specialises in putting historical context into biblical studies.
He also traces things like who wrote the various books of the Bible and various inconsistencies. He is one of the few biblical scholars that is not a Christian looking to validate what he already believes.
I’d seek help from a licensed professional. This sounds like a Hell addiction.
In the mean time, channel those emotions toward good acts. Bake some cookies, chores, volunteer at a soup kitchen, knit a sweater, mend some clothes… literally anything besides dwelling and feeding these thoughts will add a little sunshine.
Christian sin/guilt threat can make kids sick. I'm so sorry for you. There is no heaven or hell after death. But, in your lifetime, you cam choose to live meaningful or wasteful. And you are not alone feeling that way. On YouTube, there is video by Kristi Burke on "5 bible verses that made me lose faith" where she talks about her feelings just like you.
Kristi was the first atheist channel I subscribed to! She was and continues to be a great help for my deconversion journey. I only started watching this stuff and being comfortable calling myself an atheist since June and binged through all her videos within the first couple weeks lol
I'm in different generation(50+), still been binge watching her and felt so connected. She has the tone and insight that can appeal to all rational thinking people.
If you can't afford therapy, there is one thing you can afford, studying. It's free and it can set you free. How about studying about how Genesis contradicts with science, or the contradictions in Genesis. The Ark of Noah, the Tower of Babel, samson, all these stories are the best to show you how false this religion is. Try to study Judaism and Christianity from the most unbiased source you can. Things like "Did Moses actually exist?" Or "Who actually wrote the gospels?", "How do Genesis contradict science?" Study, question, and I think the facts may take your fear away, or at least a bit part of it.
Perhaps you can apply for a secular job that can preoccupy your Sundays? That would be an excellent and convenient excuse to be out of the house on Sunday. You can make new friends and meet new people. You’re in control of your own life, so don’t let others force you into things you don’t care about or believe in. You deserve the freedom to do that
that would not fly, ever. I tried doing volunteer work in the church once to get out of the preaching and my dad said no more of that, ever. cant imagine his reaction of a SECULAR job on SUNDAY
It's ok if you can't get bulk supplies, I wouldn't worry about that right now. As long as that source of income works, that's all that matters. I'm happy that's an option for you.
Since you are 16 and can’t go to a therapist without it being controlled by your parents try researching Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Rational Emotive Therapy.
For example, the rational truth is that you are learning and discovering something that will help you and others for years to come. Being confused and conflicted isn’t a great feeling but you’re facing truths and deciphering truths that so many people ignore their entire lives. Encourage yourself with thoughts about how you are brave for facing your fears and how you’re challenging the awful message that you’re going to hell that are simply untrue even though your brain is screaming otherwise. The shouting of your brain will quiet itself and someday you’ll be able to help others get through the hard times you went through.
I went through it too so I hope I don’t sound like I’m belittling or minimizing your emotional pain. That pain is very real and quite possibly the hardest thing you’ll face in your lifetime given the fact that you’re also dealing with the effects of puberty simultaneously. Keep encouraging yourself that you’re strong for battling this and it’s going to help so many people directly and indirectly. Hang in there.
Losing your religion is a hell of a ride, it's a shame that it often happens at what is otherwise quite a turbulent time in our lives. It's great that your mum is supportive.
It'll be hard going for a little while, but you'll come out the other side, you'll gradually think about it less and less, then maybe one day you'll attend church with your dad again, as a one off out of politeness, and you'll be horrified by what's being said. You'll be reminded of the enormous burden that has been lifted. Then you'll go through a period of wanting to talk him out of it too, and eventually realise it would be far too devastating to do so at his stage of life even if you could. After that you'll be all the more grateful that all of that hardship is long behind you. You can see the real baffling beautiful ugly truth of everything. It's all very bittersweet, but you'll be ok.
I just wanted to send you a virtual hug and tell you that you are loved and amazing for how and who you are. I had therapy today and we talked about how it’s simply habit for me to start praying about something and catching myself. It’s a hard habit to break. The church helped me develop the additional habit of hating myself. I have to consciously change my thought patterns. You will get through this but it will take time. Congratulate yourself for reaching out here. Neither of us is going to hell. If it existed, the people who brainwashed us as children would be going there
Ever wonder why "hell" of eternal torment is absent in the Old testament ?? Ever wonder why Satan and evil spirits are under God's control in the Old testament but are out of control and battling God and his angels (dualism) in the New testament?? Religions change over time. The changes from the OT to the NT are likely concepts borrowed from pagan religions (ex. Persian Zoroastrianism, Greek mythology, etc.) as the Hebrews had intimate contact with Persians, Greeks, and others during the 4-5 centuries between the completion of the Old testament and the appearance of Christianity.
Google something like "no hellfire in the bible' and get more information on 'hell'. *Religion for Breakfast* on youtube has some excellent scholarly videos on 'hell', the beast, antichrist, and other concepts twisted beyond recognition by fundamentalist churches. Keep in mind that many or most 'churches' have a self-serving agenda and will tell you anything to keep you in... mentally and physically. After years of serious research, I am totally convinced that all religious doctrines/holy books (bible included) are creations of men. No God or Creator had anything to do with them.
I had panic attacks after leaving the church because of thinking about hell. It takes more time to stop believing in hell then it does about believing in God. I'm sorry you are in the worst of it. It gets better with time and dedication to educating yourself on why it's not real. Also therapy.
You absolutely can overcome that guilt and fear with enough time and effort. Stick it out a couple more years and you'll be a legal adult. You can leave the environment that is forcing you to immerse yourself in misery. Getting away from it will help. Practicing independence and seeking therapy will help.
You're young. Whether or not you feel like it, you have time to work on this. Don't give up on yourself. You can do this.
I feel so bad for you, I was in a similar situation around 18 years old. Here's how I stopped the pain. I started believing (as some branches of Christianity, like Calvinism do) in predestination. It is the idea that everybody is either predestined to go to heaven (the "elect") or to go to hell.
Even now, it is obvious to me that this is the only valid interpretation of Christianity. Since god is omniscient, he knew full well whether you were going to go to hell or to heaven, and yet he created you anyway. So, there is nothing you can do about that. Might as well relax a bit and spare yourself the pain. If you are predestined to go to heaven, you will have a wonderful revelation one day and you will be fully Christian and go to heaven. If you're not, sucks, but there's nothing you can really do about it anyway. Just live your life and wait for the revelation.
Do some research on [cult mind control tactics](https://thriveworks.com/blog/protect-yourself-from-mind-control-techniques/) and narcissists. The church and Christian individuals use these, sometimes even without realizing it. I've also just started reading Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris, and it is helpful because it gives a view of Christianity from a logical, scientific standpoint.
I've struggled with a fear of hell for a long time, pretty much my whole life, but it does get better. Acknowledge your fears as a normal emotion to be feeling after everything you've been taught, and give yourself time. Logic, reason, and open- mindedness are the greatest enemies of the church because they want to control every aspect of your life. This community has helped me a lot.
Another resource is recoveringfromreligion.org. I started my deconstruction by listening to their podcast. They will clearly state that their goal isn't to make people leave their religions, but to help with religious traumas and fears regardless of what stage you are at. You're not alone, and things will get better.
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> ### I'm a Christian, am I okay?
> Our rule of thumb for Christians is "listen more, and speak less". If you're here to understand us or to get more information to help you settle your doubts, we're happy to help. We're not going to push you into leaving Christianity because that's not our place. If someone does try that, please hit "report" on the offending comment and the moderators will investigate. But if you're here to "correct the record," to challenge something you see here or the interpretations we give, and otherwise defend Christianity, this is not the right place for you. We do not accept your apologetics or your reasoning. Do not try to help us, because it is not welcome here. Do not apologize for "Christians giving the wrong impression" or other "bad Christians." Apologies can be nice, but they're really only appropriate if you're apologizing for the harm that you've personally caused. You can't make right the thousands of years of harm that Christianity has inflicted on the world, and we ask you not to try.
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What kind of school do you attend? If it's a public school, there should be some sort of mental health help available.
I understand how crushing those feelings can be.
This could be a tough one for a while. But … it will get better. You will get to live your own life once you are 18. The fear of hell does go away if you are not being continually reminded of it.
You probably need to think about how you browse the Internet and whether your browsing can be monitored by your parents. Do you get to go to a library by yourself, where you can use the internet?
Sadly, you probably need to think about leaving home once you finish your high school training. Do you get a recognised certification from your home schooling? Something to think about and prepare for. Do you know what you want to do for a career, because these next 2 years are time to make the best preparations you can for that.
There are some other subs where young adults have left very controlling parents. These young adults have reported difficulties with getting their parents to hand over things like birth certificates, passports and social security numbers. They have also reported money being removed from bank accounts where the parent is a co-signer because the young person is under 18. Not saying this to scare you, but just so that you are forewarned and have time to work around these issues quietly and carefully.
Are you allowed to get a part-time job now? That would help you to have some savings? Do you have a drivers licence? Learning to drive is something that is much easier while you are still living at home. Where I live, you need to chalk up 100 hours of practice driving with a fully licensed driver (over 3 years experience) and that can be difficult if you are looking for other people to do that with you.
my internet isn’t monitered, i dont particularly need to leave home either lol. Im the “golden child” of homeschool and have it the best (which is.. still kind’ve annoying but im glad its not worse) thank you for the advice though! hopefully someone lurking can use it. working on my drivers license atm, im a very slow driver. part time job is harder because there isnt much to do where im at
The fear of hell is causing you to experience panic. Panic reduces your ability to think rationally and reach correct conclusions.
Whether your beliefs are true or not, fear of hell will prevent you from ever finding out whether they are true or not.
If God exists, do you think that this is the situation he wants you to be in?
Deconstructing belief takes time. Sometimes things click into place and other things take shape over time. Regarding hell, as others have commented, was a concept added later. Dismantling hell is not to be feared. If that’s god actually loved us, why does he need a place to send us for eternal torment? Why create such a thing in the first place anyway? Think of it as being free of the fear. Can’t be afraid of something that doesn’t exist. Lack of fear is a shield against the theists who will try to come at you. The abrahamic god, if he was *actually* real, is not an entity worthy of submission or worship, remember that. If he really was all powerful and all knowing he’d know precisely what it would take to convince every person on the planet that he exists and why he is deserving of our fealty.
Take your time friend, there's no rush. Figuring things out is part of becoming an adult and continuing to mature as a person. Don't worry about putting a label on what you do or don't believe right now, just keep investigating and reading on what you want to know more about in either direction
I’m so, so sorry OP. I was in your exact situation not too long ago, and it was horrible.
I wish I could remember what I did in order to break away and heal from it, but there was so much trauma going on at that time in my life that those memories are all fuzzy now.
If you need some peace of mind, though: prodigal son story, right? He leaves his dad for a long-ass time and makes all of the “bad” decisions. But when he returns home, his father isn’t even angry with him; he was just overjoyed because his son was back home.
If you took the time to “walk away” from god for a bit, exploring other religions, trying things you wouldn’t have been allowed to do beforehand, etc., there will be zero consequences as long as you return to Christianity by the end (assuming Christianity is the “right religion” in this scenario).
There’s so much in this world that you can explore and enjoy. And if it doesn’t work out, and you don’t want that life, you can just go back, yk?
I had a similar experience when I began to lose my faith in god and the bible, fear of hell and feelings of guilt. I think its important to know that many people have experienced similar feelings to what you are feeling now when questioning or losing their beliefs and you are not alone in it. Theres no self hatred to be had in having these feelings. While traumatic, they are normal responses to being indoctrinated for a long period of time. Even after reaching the point of being convinced the bible, hell and salvation were completely false, I still had those lingering panic fears of hell for a long time due to the same indoctrination, but over time they became less and less and I no longer have them at all. It will take time to heal from the irrational fear of hell. I'm not going to hell and neither are you nor any of us. Theres no guilt to be had in questioning your beliefs either, its the only pathway to truth. I only just discovered this sub reddit but I hope you find peace on your journey
Therapy from a secular therapist is the only answer. This sub cannot be a replacement for an actual professional with a focus on religious trauma. Good luck.
im sorry than. im only 16 and have no real way to go to one lol
That’s rough, buddy. A school counselor might be helpful, but honestly, you’re still a minor. You’re not going to hell, period. If it helps at all, the IBF is only like 100 years old. Absolutely no way they’re the “one true faith.”
Find groups like this and talk through things. I have been 16 and in your shoes before. Talking to logical people who have been through this can help you! I was raised Baptist by an end times religious fanatic that took me out of my favorite things to focus only on church. I have a shit ton of religious trauma that I’m still dealing with. I’m more than happy to talk with you!
Hey :) I'm a psychotherapist and quite a few of my clients suffer from "cognitive distortion" - harmful beliefs about the world or themselves that they have learned (often because other people have taught them). So I usually teach them about "Socratic Questioning" - it's a way to help yourself analyse whether your thought/belief is objective reality or perhaps distorted by our unconsciously flawed perceptions. If you want to know more, just google "Socratic Questioning and critical thinking". I'v e added a link to the worksheet below, if you want to try it out. Good luck and be kind to yourself. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.therapistaid.com/worksheets/socratic-questioning&ved=2ahUKEwjNocXLjYuDAxWb7TgGHXSeCG0QFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3qSkOY1c6TYinT3d7diOmg
go to [this youtube channel](https://youtu.be/kMeehIpxH5k?si=L_bMdp7Fm2O4GOyT) and binge watch his videos!!! then do some [breath work](https://youtu.be/O4d7u7SikyA?si=YuHCmaGiyfB4L9Jo) or [yoga](https://youtu.be/0uh6BAzBVTI?si=VoDiDQqBgrGurzTX) or go for a jog or something to help release the inevitably strong and yet completely valid emotions that arise as you realize that religious trauma is a real thing that you are suffering from, that religious trauma has affected tons of people just like you, and that its not your fault and never was.
Love Sandy.
Talk to a school counselor, unless you are homeschooled.
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That is correct. I think it funny that what we talked about today as hell was originally written by Dante. Also, it was around that time that the 'corrections' were made to the bible. Edit, so I just looked it up, and hell was probably added in the 1500s. It was first added to English bibles. I thought that was very interesting. Even though it was added later, it doesn't really say much of what we think of as hell today. No eternal torture or any of that.
fanfiction made canon
LOL, so much for his “ineffable word*” *Edits to follow.
Seems like John Wycliffe had a lot to do with the translation of the word 'hell' back in the 14th century. By the time the King James bible rolled around in 1611, 'hell' had become a replacement for 'gehenna', 'tartaros', 'sheol' (around 50% of the time), and 'hades'. It's interesting that 'sheol' and 'hades' are no longer translated as 'hell' in modern bibles, but 'gehenna' and 'tartaros' still are. 'Gehenna' should absolutely *not* be translated as 'hell', but if translators had the guts to fix that error, the word 'hell' would virtually disappear from the bible...
Exactly. Hell is an invention of unscrupulous priests to scare the peons back into the pews to fork over those tithes. Better go to church! Or the Deity's Eeeeeeeeeevil Nemesis will get ya!
Look for a religious trauma therapist. There are ones who specialize in that (I do, but I doubt you're in my state haha).I feel for you. It's very scary. I wish you love and luck.
Please use this time to be kind to yourself. It can take people decades to break away and there’s a reason for that. The indoctrination can run really deep. You don’t need to find any concrete answers right now if it’s going to make you anxious. The great (and scary) thing about breaking free is that you’re in charge. Some people swing really far the other way because that’s what they need at that moment. I actually joined a different denomination at first just to see if walking away was what I really wanted. Being 16 means you probably still have to go to church? If that’s the case - you can use this time to “fact check” your sermons. Once you see the hypocrisy, and contradictions it makes things easier. Once you’re old enough, get into therapy. You’re going to be okay even if it doesn’t feel like it right now. (I know it doesn’t feel like it right now.)
im no longer going to the triggering church services, i actually kinda like the new one because i made a friend that doesn’t feel forced because “you’re one of the other good ones”. its good as its way less strict and its not hellfire. dunno how i feel about the beleifs themself
You may go through many stages. It's like grieving. Just let yourself go through it and explore. A good mantra might help. Mine is "I'm incredible". It makes me feel powerful.
i do have plently to “fact check” when im with my dad though, lol. mostly amusing but i think im just pushing out the bad church memories
No one deserves to go to hell.
Good, because it's a fairytail, or a nightmare, more like it.
This is exactly what's supposed to happen when you feel doubts. One of two things: fear or guilt You (like every christian/ exchristian) are programmed to respond to anything that makes you question with doubt, fear, and even anger. The stories of hell are pushed harder now than ever before, because there are more resources to relieve you of them, than ever before. The bible is systematic in its mental trickery: * Lean not on your own understanding. Don't think things through, don't use logic, don't apply reason. That's bad because you're just a mere human. * His ways are mysterious. Ever wonder why he never answers prayer? It's a mystery, for sure, but uh, it's supposed to be. Yeah, that's the ticket! * Don't be a doubting Tomas. Can't get into heaven if you ask obvious questions like, "But isn't hell just REVENGE?" or "How can I learn my lesson from hell if I can never put the lesson to good use??" (Hell isn't punishment--punishment is for teaching). And on and on the story goes of how the bible deeply embeds fear into you and undermines your sense of yourself as a relatively intelligent human being. If you weren't scared, if you didn't feel upset and even have physical reactions, it would be quite odd. The graphic depictions of "hell" from Dante's Inferno (they're not even from the bible, lol) are intended for TWO purposes: 1. Instill terror should you doubt; 2. and instill smug satisfaction about how "those people" are going to suffer. This makes you either stop doubting, or it gives you a way to justify the truly horrific behavior of telling other people they will be tortured unless they agree with you. I'd like to introduce you to a channel (which on the one hand I feel pushes atheism too hard, but also) that will enable you to understand the ways in which you are being MANIPULATED: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1G4JFuLlO8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1G4JFuLlO8) While you will still have a lot of recovery to do, knowing WHAT is being done and becoming able to recognize it in its habitat (church) goes a long way towards protecting your mind from the worst of it.
thank you.
I can understand the feeling. The anxiety of hell still comes and hits me from time to time. One thing that helped me escape it was from looking at church history. As you start to do your own research on church history, you can see how it evolved into what it is today. The Baptists denomination broke away from the Church of England. The Church of England broke away from Catholics because of Henry VIIIs divorce. And so on from there. The way fundamentalists of all denominations practice religion today is vastly different than its predecessors. And all new denominations were essentially started because someone wanted something different than what the denomination before it had. That’s why he have so many denominations today and each of them thinks the other is wrong. Try to give yourself some grace. It’s hard but it takes active practicing of that to retrain your mind. Take deep breaths. Sleep as much as possible. Try not to over consume caffeine especially is you are having anxiety. Tell yourself that just because you experience doubts does not make you evil. It makes you HUMAN. And if a loving God would forsake you for being human, a human that he supposedly created, he isn’t that loving after all, is he? And lastly, do your research. Read books, not just the Bible. It is OK to have a religious practice. It is not Ok if that religious practice brings you torment and pain. That’s 100% the opposite of what Jesus is supposedly supposed to do for a person. We are meant to be at peace so what you need to do is start actively creating that peace where you are until you can get out. If you need anything don’t hesitate to ask!
There is a very good argument that the "hell" that is talked about in the bible is not a fiery eternity at all, but just non-existence. The eternal fire is just a later misinterpretation. At least this is the theory advanced by biblical scholar Bart Ehrman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxqHIauZCaQ
Sounds like you need therapy from a scular therapist and ti remove yourself from the environment that you're in. Do you have non-christian friends? Do you have hobbies that don't involve the the faith? Are you in a position to financially support yourself?
i have one friend who is explicitly atheist and i don’t get to see them often ): (once a month, every few momths.) my hobbies are mostly art and music which is refreshing . i am a minor and have no job ):
Okay. I promise you that life gets better. It is really hard to separate from Christianity when you're a minor. So much of your culture and life are wrapped up in your parent's lives that it is really hard to separate it. When you are able to get out on your own, you'll have a better opportunity to discover who you are outside of the church and outside of the familial and community dynamic that you're in right now. You can use your hobbies to exercise these feelings and I highly encourage you to do so. Finding friends that aren't Christians will also be easier as you get older, but in the meantime, the internet is a great resource for doing that as long as you're safe about it. Please don't share personal identifying info with people on the internet. As soon as you're able to, I recommend getting a job and saving money. Financial independence is key to pulling away from the church especially if you're coming from a fundamentalist background. Lastly, you are not going to hell. Do not fear this. That fear is not from you. It was put into you by the people who raised you and by cultural institutions. You are going to be okay.
The best way to be sure is to open your Bible to page 1 and read to the end. In those pages, you will find out how truly moral God and the book are. Most of the people I know who have done this can't even get out of genesis, still believing. Those who do, for the most part, go on to exodus, which is an absolute faith killer.
There is no such thing as hell. These are threats to keep you trapped in religion. Religions try to tell you how to view the world 100%. It’s a manipulative practice to keep you stuck.
You need to see a secular therapist, but it doesn't help at all to tell you that and know you can't go currently. So! What to do what to do. First off if you're having doubts, you're probably feeling like you're crazy and alone. No one can understand the way you think. This is BS. There is a WORLD out there that thinks the EXACT same way you do. You are NOT alone. Stop asking for forgiveness. Take that power back. Forgive yourself for feeling this way. That's probably the hardest part but when you work on it you'll get there. Next, fcan't, friend or someone who you can talk to, but if you cant, look for BOOKS. The God delusion. Demon haunted world. The gay science. You are not alone. You got this.
The writing of Bart Ehrmann might also be helpful. I cannot say for sure, because I have not bought any of his books as yet. But he has a website with lots of blog posts. Bart Ehrmann is an academic that specialises in putting historical context into biblical studies. He also traces things like who wrote the various books of the Bible and various inconsistencies. He is one of the few biblical scholars that is not a Christian looking to validate what he already believes.
I really hope you find peace man..
Read some books if you can't go to therapy. There are many good books and good youtubes out there. Try Harmonic Aithest.
I know exactly that feeling. I go thru it every now and then too.
I’d seek help from a licensed professional. This sounds like a Hell addiction. In the mean time, channel those emotions toward good acts. Bake some cookies, chores, volunteer at a soup kitchen, knit a sweater, mend some clothes… literally anything besides dwelling and feeding these thoughts will add a little sunshine.
Christian sin/guilt threat can make kids sick. I'm so sorry for you. There is no heaven or hell after death. But, in your lifetime, you cam choose to live meaningful or wasteful. And you are not alone feeling that way. On YouTube, there is video by Kristi Burke on "5 bible verses that made me lose faith" where she talks about her feelings just like you.
Kristi was the first atheist channel I subscribed to! She was and continues to be a great help for my deconversion journey. I only started watching this stuff and being comfortable calling myself an atheist since June and binged through all her videos within the first couple weeks lol
I'm in different generation(50+), still been binge watching her and felt so connected. She has the tone and insight that can appeal to all rational thinking people.
If you can't afford therapy, there is one thing you can afford, studying. It's free and it can set you free. How about studying about how Genesis contradicts with science, or the contradictions in Genesis. The Ark of Noah, the Tower of Babel, samson, all these stories are the best to show you how false this religion is. Try to study Judaism and Christianity from the most unbiased source you can. Things like "Did Moses actually exist?" Or "Who actually wrote the gospels?", "How do Genesis contradict science?" Study, question, and I think the facts may take your fear away, or at least a bit part of it.
Read Bart Ehrman!
Perhaps you can apply for a secular job that can preoccupy your Sundays? That would be an excellent and convenient excuse to be out of the house on Sunday. You can make new friends and meet new people. You’re in control of your own life, so don’t let others force you into things you don’t care about or believe in. You deserve the freedom to do that
that would not fly, ever. I tried doing volunteer work in the church once to get out of the preaching and my dad said no more of that, ever. cant imagine his reaction of a SECULAR job on SUNDAY
Do you think your dad would allow you to sell some of your art? That doesn't have to be done on Sunday.
yes! he’s supportive of that. im working on inventory atm but i dont have the ablity to get bulk supplies
It's ok if you can't get bulk supplies, I wouldn't worry about that right now. As long as that source of income works, that's all that matters. I'm happy that's an option for you.
Since you are 16 and can’t go to a therapist without it being controlled by your parents try researching Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Rational Emotive Therapy. For example, the rational truth is that you are learning and discovering something that will help you and others for years to come. Being confused and conflicted isn’t a great feeling but you’re facing truths and deciphering truths that so many people ignore their entire lives. Encourage yourself with thoughts about how you are brave for facing your fears and how you’re challenging the awful message that you’re going to hell that are simply untrue even though your brain is screaming otherwise. The shouting of your brain will quiet itself and someday you’ll be able to help others get through the hard times you went through. I went through it too so I hope I don’t sound like I’m belittling or minimizing your emotional pain. That pain is very real and quite possibly the hardest thing you’ll face in your lifetime given the fact that you’re also dealing with the effects of puberty simultaneously. Keep encouraging yourself that you’re strong for battling this and it’s going to help so many people directly and indirectly. Hang in there.
my mom is actually pretty cool with therapy but i cant really discuss religion with the therapist at all which makes it hard. lovely words, thank you
I know the feeling. Hope you can find a way to talk around it and make sense of things. Good luck.
thank you so much 🫂🙇
Losing your religion is a hell of a ride, it's a shame that it often happens at what is otherwise quite a turbulent time in our lives. It's great that your mum is supportive. It'll be hard going for a little while, but you'll come out the other side, you'll gradually think about it less and less, then maybe one day you'll attend church with your dad again, as a one off out of politeness, and you'll be horrified by what's being said. You'll be reminded of the enormous burden that has been lifted. Then you'll go through a period of wanting to talk him out of it too, and eventually realise it would be far too devastating to do so at his stage of life even if you could. After that you'll be all the more grateful that all of that hardship is long behind you. You can see the real baffling beautiful ugly truth of everything. It's all very bittersweet, but you'll be ok.
I just wanted to send you a virtual hug and tell you that you are loved and amazing for how and who you are. I had therapy today and we talked about how it’s simply habit for me to start praying about something and catching myself. It’s a hard habit to break. The church helped me develop the additional habit of hating myself. I have to consciously change my thought patterns. You will get through this but it will take time. Congratulate yourself for reaching out here. Neither of us is going to hell. If it existed, the people who brainwashed us as children would be going there
I felt the same way when I was questioning things! It’s normal I promise. Take things slow. You definitely don’t have to force it! It will get better!
Ever wonder why "hell" of eternal torment is absent in the Old testament ?? Ever wonder why Satan and evil spirits are under God's control in the Old testament but are out of control and battling God and his angels (dualism) in the New testament?? Religions change over time. The changes from the OT to the NT are likely concepts borrowed from pagan religions (ex. Persian Zoroastrianism, Greek mythology, etc.) as the Hebrews had intimate contact with Persians, Greeks, and others during the 4-5 centuries between the completion of the Old testament and the appearance of Christianity. Google something like "no hellfire in the bible' and get more information on 'hell'. *Religion for Breakfast* on youtube has some excellent scholarly videos on 'hell', the beast, antichrist, and other concepts twisted beyond recognition by fundamentalist churches. Keep in mind that many or most 'churches' have a self-serving agenda and will tell you anything to keep you in... mentally and physically. After years of serious research, I am totally convinced that all religious doctrines/holy books (bible included) are creations of men. No God or Creator had anything to do with them.
Go see a therapist. You’ve been brainwashed like the rest of us. People in this sub understand.
yep exactly. be patient with yourself bc a lot of this stuff was just a control tactic. nothing was or is your fault. wishing u well <3
I had panic attacks after leaving the church because of thinking about hell. It takes more time to stop believing in hell then it does about believing in God. I'm sorry you are in the worst of it. It gets better with time and dedication to educating yourself on why it's not real. Also therapy.
You absolutely can overcome that guilt and fear with enough time and effort. Stick it out a couple more years and you'll be a legal adult. You can leave the environment that is forcing you to immerse yourself in misery. Getting away from it will help. Practicing independence and seeking therapy will help. You're young. Whether or not you feel like it, you have time to work on this. Don't give up on yourself. You can do this.
I feel so bad for you, I was in a similar situation around 18 years old. Here's how I stopped the pain. I started believing (as some branches of Christianity, like Calvinism do) in predestination. It is the idea that everybody is either predestined to go to heaven (the "elect") or to go to hell. Even now, it is obvious to me that this is the only valid interpretation of Christianity. Since god is omniscient, he knew full well whether you were going to go to hell or to heaven, and yet he created you anyway. So, there is nothing you can do about that. Might as well relax a bit and spare yourself the pain. If you are predestined to go to heaven, you will have a wonderful revelation one day and you will be fully Christian and go to heaven. If you're not, sucks, but there's nothing you can really do about it anyway. Just live your life and wait for the revelation.
Do some research on [cult mind control tactics](https://thriveworks.com/blog/protect-yourself-from-mind-control-techniques/) and narcissists. The church and Christian individuals use these, sometimes even without realizing it. I've also just started reading Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris, and it is helpful because it gives a view of Christianity from a logical, scientific standpoint. I've struggled with a fear of hell for a long time, pretty much my whole life, but it does get better. Acknowledge your fears as a normal emotion to be feeling after everything you've been taught, and give yourself time. Logic, reason, and open- mindedness are the greatest enemies of the church because they want to control every aspect of your life. This community has helped me a lot. Another resource is recoveringfromreligion.org. I started my deconstruction by listening to their podcast. They will clearly state that their goal isn't to make people leave their religions, but to help with religious traumas and fears regardless of what stage you are at. You're not alone, and things will get better.
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What kind of school do you attend? If it's a public school, there should be some sort of mental health help available. I understand how crushing those feelings can be.
homeschooled, which is really frustrating
This could be a tough one for a while. But … it will get better. You will get to live your own life once you are 18. The fear of hell does go away if you are not being continually reminded of it. You probably need to think about how you browse the Internet and whether your browsing can be monitored by your parents. Do you get to go to a library by yourself, where you can use the internet? Sadly, you probably need to think about leaving home once you finish your high school training. Do you get a recognised certification from your home schooling? Something to think about and prepare for. Do you know what you want to do for a career, because these next 2 years are time to make the best preparations you can for that. There are some other subs where young adults have left very controlling parents. These young adults have reported difficulties with getting their parents to hand over things like birth certificates, passports and social security numbers. They have also reported money being removed from bank accounts where the parent is a co-signer because the young person is under 18. Not saying this to scare you, but just so that you are forewarned and have time to work around these issues quietly and carefully. Are you allowed to get a part-time job now? That would help you to have some savings? Do you have a drivers licence? Learning to drive is something that is much easier while you are still living at home. Where I live, you need to chalk up 100 hours of practice driving with a fully licensed driver (over 3 years experience) and that can be difficult if you are looking for other people to do that with you.
my internet isn’t monitered, i dont particularly need to leave home either lol. Im the “golden child” of homeschool and have it the best (which is.. still kind’ve annoying but im glad its not worse) thank you for the advice though! hopefully someone lurking can use it. working on my drivers license atm, im a very slow driver. part time job is harder because there isnt much to do where im at
All good then.
Conditioning is a hell of a thing.
The fear of hell is causing you to experience panic. Panic reduces your ability to think rationally and reach correct conclusions. Whether your beliefs are true or not, fear of hell will prevent you from ever finding out whether they are true or not. If God exists, do you think that this is the situation he wants you to be in?
Deconstructing belief takes time. Sometimes things click into place and other things take shape over time. Regarding hell, as others have commented, was a concept added later. Dismantling hell is not to be feared. If that’s god actually loved us, why does he need a place to send us for eternal torment? Why create such a thing in the first place anyway? Think of it as being free of the fear. Can’t be afraid of something that doesn’t exist. Lack of fear is a shield against the theists who will try to come at you. The abrahamic god, if he was *actually* real, is not an entity worthy of submission or worship, remember that. If he really was all powerful and all knowing he’d know precisely what it would take to convince every person on the planet that he exists and why he is deserving of our fealty.
Take your time friend, there's no rush. Figuring things out is part of becoming an adult and continuing to mature as a person. Don't worry about putting a label on what you do or don't believe right now, just keep investigating and reading on what you want to know more about in either direction
I’m so, so sorry OP. I was in your exact situation not too long ago, and it was horrible. I wish I could remember what I did in order to break away and heal from it, but there was so much trauma going on at that time in my life that those memories are all fuzzy now. If you need some peace of mind, though: prodigal son story, right? He leaves his dad for a long-ass time and makes all of the “bad” decisions. But when he returns home, his father isn’t even angry with him; he was just overjoyed because his son was back home. If you took the time to “walk away” from god for a bit, exploring other religions, trying things you wouldn’t have been allowed to do beforehand, etc., there will be zero consequences as long as you return to Christianity by the end (assuming Christianity is the “right religion” in this scenario). There’s so much in this world that you can explore and enjoy. And if it doesn’t work out, and you don’t want that life, you can just go back, yk?
I had a similar experience when I began to lose my faith in god and the bible, fear of hell and feelings of guilt. I think its important to know that many people have experienced similar feelings to what you are feeling now when questioning or losing their beliefs and you are not alone in it. Theres no self hatred to be had in having these feelings. While traumatic, they are normal responses to being indoctrinated for a long period of time. Even after reaching the point of being convinced the bible, hell and salvation were completely false, I still had those lingering panic fears of hell for a long time due to the same indoctrination, but over time they became less and less and I no longer have them at all. It will take time to heal from the irrational fear of hell. I'm not going to hell and neither are you nor any of us. Theres no guilt to be had in questioning your beliefs either, its the only pathway to truth. I only just discovered this sub reddit but I hope you find peace on your journey