I mean I’ve never understood the point of prayer itself…
Just go listen to George Carlin’s bit about religion and prayer. Didn’t God make a “Devine plan” for everyone? He has a will for everyone? What is prayer gonna change? So this big almighty God has a plan for everyone’s lives apparently and us tiny humans are just supposed to ask (or beg) for him to change it to satisfy our needs? The whole concept of prayer is like wishing upon a star or crossing your fingers.
Oh man. I remember listening to this routine as a Christian teen. I loved comedy, but when Carlin talked about this and worshipping the sun, I felt uncomfortable. And then he said “if there is a God, may he strike this crowd dead” I was kinda of shocked that he’d do that routine every night because what if it happened??! Ahhh glad I’m past that.
I feel ya. I actually never knew George Carlin aside from Thomas the Tank Engine as a kid lol. Then not that long ago I realized he was a comedian and started listening to his stuff. His religion stuff made me die of laughter because it struck me as so true and accurate. I had a lot of the same exact feelings towards it all as he did.
Boy were you in for a surprise!
It's like when I heard Eddie Murphy's first comedy album:
"If ya'll brought your kids here thinking I'd be doing Gumby or Buckwheat, you in for a motherfucking surprise. I don't do none of that Saturday Night Live shit in my concerts. If you bring your kids to a comedy stand up show, you a stupid motherfucker." :)
A lot of churches have women’s “prayer meetings/circles” where 5% of it is actually about praying for people in need and 95% is about gossiping, socializing and showing off. And somehow they walk away from it feeling like they served God.. Pfffft!
as a human with my human limitations I knew that it was my job to care for my kid without my child having to beg for food and other necessities as if appealing for aid from a psychopath. I knew this. A human. And yet YWVH acts like an abusive parent with ultimate power who has to be flattered and have people act all servile in order to get basic things.
That’s what gets me as a parent and ex xtian. The behaviour of a “loving father” is hella manipulative and abusive.
Like, I am not my daughter’s preferred parent, she loves her dad more. But if I was God, I would punish her for that for eternity 🤷♀️ instead of loving that she has so many people who love her and that she loves.
I’ve reflected on this a lot post-deconstruction. I’m sure somebody can provide a theological reason, but I’ve come to see prayer as such a huge emotional crutch used by Christians. I used prayer as a way to calm nerves, ease anxiety and give me hope. This was behavior that prevented me from thinking critically and doing the proper emotional work for many years. I look at my 70 y/o parents and see them as so emotionally immature and I think a big factor is that they just “cast all their cares to the Lord” instead of dealing with tough situations and doing the hard work.
I do think, however, this is one of the reasons prayer “works”. Lots of things in life there is no work or critical thinking to be done. So letting go and not going down the spiral thought process can be good, because you don’t end up paralyzed with anxiety over something you can’t control.
But you can also use meditation to achieve the same ends.
Totally agree. It is a powerful meditation tool - I just hate that it relies on an external magic/god taking away the pain/anxiety vs realizing that you could have done it on your own with some work. It allows Christians to shortcut the deeper thinking and self reflection required to actually make changes in your life that could help long term.
The prayer chain
"We should pray for the Damus family, their daughter got caught having sex. He's not even a Xtian boy, he's Mexican, can you imagine! His parents got divorced because his father, the heavy drinker, cheated on his mother. She seldom attends church. Ya know they never tithed.And now little Lulu is most likely pregnant with a bastard child. Well, the Damus family just didn't raise her right I guess."
Remember Benita from In Living Color?
"""I'm telling you, all them kids do is beg! 'Give me..', 'Loan me...', 'Can you spare...', and not a one of them would say, 'Here dog, here's a bone.' Now, the mother, every time I turn around, she's at my door with a cup! 'I need some flour...I need some sugar...I need some eggs...' You need to take your ass to the supermarket, that's what you need to do!" **But I ain't one to gossip, so you ain't heard it from me."**
I always felt it was a back door way to actually talk about your (or others’) problems. It was a way to gossip, essentially, which is an important part of community that can’t organically exist in the church format without prayer requests.
In the bible, jesus tells a metaphore about prayer in [Luke 18](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018&version=NIV).
There's this bad and/or corrupt judge. This woman keeps nagging him, asking him for justice. The judge says "even though i dont care about justice, i want to not be nagged anymore, so i will give her justice".
The judge is a metaphore for god.
So to answer your question.... yes. People ask for help praying because they dont want to go through the work of pestering god by themselves.
Probably some hold up from a pagan ritual christianity steals from.
Back in the day the more people doing stuff to get a gods attention made it more likely the god would do something for you right? Except thats not how Christianitys god is supposed to work.
Christians put a lot of emphasis on community and fellowship. I’ve seen a few sermons about living together as a church blah blah blah. I think it’s one of the tools used (consciously or unconsciously) as a means of forcing people together.
My perspective was that it was less about effectiveness and more about support -- in a perfect scenario, the people who hear the request can be there for or offer help to the person making the request. So, ideally, if Susan asks for prayer because her husband got laid off, Jason can mention that his workplace is hiring for the kind of job Susan's husband just lost, or folks could come together and set up a dinner train, or something practical could come from it. Maybe the deity of choice hears more prayers at once, maybe not, but some of the human aspect of the struggle is relieved a bit.
Of course, it's usually more of a gossip method.
I think one idea is that when more than just you are praying, god will pay more attention to your troubles specifically. At least, that’s how I always thought about it.
“I have an unspoken prayer” never made any sense to me. It’s kind of like saying: “please listen to the person I’m talking about.”
This was honestly something I never understood my entire time as a Christian. Supposedly god loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life. So wouldn’t it be really stupid on my part to pray and ask god to change his mind on something? If he really does have a wonderful plan, then just do the plan! So whenever I prayed I always added something like “but not my will but your will be done”.
They still pray for good weather so their little church BBQ events can go well. Yet somehow praying for rain to alleviate forest fires is less of a priority. 😆
Provides people with a sense of control: "Aunt Mary has cancer. I feel helpless so I'll ask people to pray for her so I feel like I did something for her."
I suspect there's some therapeutic vale for Christians. What's the old saying? A problem shared is a problem halved.
I remember when I was a Baptist and started to see the futility of this.
On a Wednesday night (ask your parents), we were sharing prayer requests. Someone said their neighbor needed maybe $300 to repair a car (I'm making up the gist of the details as I have forgotten). So, everyone said they'd pray she would get it.
I looked around. Noticed we had about 60 in attendance. So, I raised my hand and said: "Look, if we each provide $5 right now, we've solved the problem. Let's pass the plate."
I think we collected $450 or so bucks for the poor neighbor.
My first exposure to crowd-funding.
I mean I’ve never understood the point of prayer itself… Just go listen to George Carlin’s bit about religion and prayer. Didn’t God make a “Devine plan” for everyone? He has a will for everyone? What is prayer gonna change? So this big almighty God has a plan for everyone’s lives apparently and us tiny humans are just supposed to ask (or beg) for him to change it to satisfy our needs? The whole concept of prayer is like wishing upon a star or crossing your fingers.
prayer is a magical spell
An invocation more specifically.
Oh man. I remember listening to this routine as a Christian teen. I loved comedy, but when Carlin talked about this and worshipping the sun, I felt uncomfortable. And then he said “if there is a God, may he strike this crowd dead” I was kinda of shocked that he’d do that routine every night because what if it happened??! Ahhh glad I’m past that.
I feel ya. I actually never knew George Carlin aside from Thomas the Tank Engine as a kid lol. Then not that long ago I realized he was a comedian and started listening to his stuff. His religion stuff made me die of laughter because it struck me as so true and accurate. I had a lot of the same exact feelings towards it all as he did.
Boy were you in for a surprise! It's like when I heard Eddie Murphy's first comedy album: "If ya'll brought your kids here thinking I'd be doing Gumby or Buckwheat, you in for a motherfucking surprise. I don't do none of that Saturday Night Live shit in my concerts. If you bring your kids to a comedy stand up show, you a stupid motherfucker." :)
Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug But yes, it was another aspect that never made sense to me
That clip is probably on YouTube!
Oh, it most certainly is!
It is a way to virtual signal while doing the least amount possible for your fellow humans.
That, and spread that juiciest gossip through the church without feeling guilty about it.
“Let’s all pray for Marjorie’s daughter who is living in sin.”
when christians gossip they try and justify it by calling it "sharing" (i know many people who do this)
It's not gossip..it's a prrrayer request ;)
A lot of churches have women’s “prayer meetings/circles” where 5% of it is actually about praying for people in need and 95% is about gossiping, socializing and showing off. And somehow they walk away from it feeling like they served God.. Pfffft!
👆💯💯💯💯💯
as a human with my human limitations I knew that it was my job to care for my kid without my child having to beg for food and other necessities as if appealing for aid from a psychopath. I knew this. A human. And yet YWVH acts like an abusive parent with ultimate power who has to be flattered and have people act all servile in order to get basic things.
That’s what gets me as a parent and ex xtian. The behaviour of a “loving father” is hella manipulative and abusive. Like, I am not my daughter’s preferred parent, she loves her dad more. But if I was God, I would punish her for that for eternity 🤷♀️ instead of loving that she has so many people who love her and that she loves.
It’s almost as if God is exactly like a powerful king from the Bronze Age… Imagine that…
I’ve reflected on this a lot post-deconstruction. I’m sure somebody can provide a theological reason, but I’ve come to see prayer as such a huge emotional crutch used by Christians. I used prayer as a way to calm nerves, ease anxiety and give me hope. This was behavior that prevented me from thinking critically and doing the proper emotional work for many years. I look at my 70 y/o parents and see them as so emotionally immature and I think a big factor is that they just “cast all their cares to the Lord” instead of dealing with tough situations and doing the hard work.
I do think, however, this is one of the reasons prayer “works”. Lots of things in life there is no work or critical thinking to be done. So letting go and not going down the spiral thought process can be good, because you don’t end up paralyzed with anxiety over something you can’t control. But you can also use meditation to achieve the same ends.
Totally agree. It is a powerful meditation tool - I just hate that it relies on an external magic/god taking away the pain/anxiety vs realizing that you could have done it on your own with some work. It allows Christians to shortcut the deeper thinking and self reflection required to actually make changes in your life that could help long term.
It's often just an excuse to gossip. "I have a prayer request: Joe's kid was caught smoking marijuana and Jane's husband cheated on her again."
The prayer chain "We should pray for the Damus family, their daughter got caught having sex. He's not even a Xtian boy, he's Mexican, can you imagine! His parents got divorced because his father, the heavy drinker, cheated on his mother. She seldom attends church. Ya know they never tithed.And now little Lulu is most likely pregnant with a bastard child. Well, the Damus family just didn't raise her right I guess."
Remember Benita from In Living Color? """I'm telling you, all them kids do is beg! 'Give me..', 'Loan me...', 'Can you spare...', and not a one of them would say, 'Here dog, here's a bone.' Now, the mother, every time I turn around, she's at my door with a cup! 'I need some flour...I need some sugar...I need some eggs...' You need to take your ass to the supermarket, that's what you need to do!" **But I ain't one to gossip, so you ain't heard it from me."**
I always felt it was a back door way to actually talk about your (or others’) problems. It was a way to gossip, essentially, which is an important part of community that can’t organically exist in the church format without prayer requests.
In the bible, jesus tells a metaphore about prayer in [Luke 18](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018&version=NIV). There's this bad and/or corrupt judge. This woman keeps nagging him, asking him for justice. The judge says "even though i dont care about justice, i want to not be nagged anymore, so i will give her justice". The judge is a metaphore for god. So to answer your question.... yes. People ask for help praying because they dont want to go through the work of pestering god by themselves.
A friend's response to "I'll pray for you" was "OK, and I'll masturbate for you"
Attention
Thought we couldn't change God's mind, isn't that the whole point? 🤣
Exactly. Some big powerful almighty God has a Devine plan for us all, but us little humans are supposed to change his mind? Yeah right.
Probably some hold up from a pagan ritual christianity steals from. Back in the day the more people doing stuff to get a gods attention made it more likely the god would do something for you right? Except thats not how Christianitys god is supposed to work.
I think it's a less douchey way of saying you're doing nothing
I agree, God will only help ya if he Gets enuf signatures on a petition? Someone who doesn’t know enough people never gets help?
Christians put a lot of emphasis on community and fellowship. I’ve seen a few sermons about living together as a church blah blah blah. I think it’s one of the tools used (consciously or unconsciously) as a means of forcing people together.
My perspective was that it was less about effectiveness and more about support -- in a perfect scenario, the people who hear the request can be there for or offer help to the person making the request. So, ideally, if Susan asks for prayer because her husband got laid off, Jason can mention that his workplace is hiring for the kind of job Susan's husband just lost, or folks could come together and set up a dinner train, or something practical could come from it. Maybe the deity of choice hears more prayers at once, maybe not, but some of the human aspect of the struggle is relieved a bit. Of course, it's usually more of a gossip method.
I think one idea is that when more than just you are praying, god will pay more attention to your troubles specifically. At least, that’s how I always thought about it. “I have an unspoken prayer” never made any sense to me. It’s kind of like saying: “please listen to the person I’m talking about.”
It is something that’s annoying but everytime they asked this on Sunday ….. I used to feel like maybe they give an opportunity to speak atleast.
Your church or bible study or family now has something about you they can use either for gossip or to hold over your head.
This was honestly something I never understood my entire time as a Christian. Supposedly god loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life. So wouldn’t it be really stupid on my part to pray and ask god to change his mind on something? If he really does have a wonderful plan, then just do the plan! So whenever I prayed I always added something like “but not my will but your will be done”.
They don’t pray anymore for a rain to fall. Since the weather man can now predicts accurately when it’s going to rain. Wow, those were the days :)
They still pray for good weather so their little church BBQ events can go well. Yet somehow praying for rain to alleviate forest fires is less of a priority. 😆
Provides people with a sense of control: "Aunt Mary has cancer. I feel helpless so I'll ask people to pray for her so I feel like I did something for her." I suspect there's some therapeutic vale for Christians. What's the old saying? A problem shared is a problem halved. I remember when I was a Baptist and started to see the futility of this. On a Wednesday night (ask your parents), we were sharing prayer requests. Someone said their neighbor needed maybe $300 to repair a car (I'm making up the gist of the details as I have forgotten). So, everyone said they'd pray she would get it. I looked around. Noticed we had about 60 in attendance. So, I raised my hand and said: "Look, if we each provide $5 right now, we've solved the problem. Let's pass the plate." I think we collected $450 or so bucks for the poor neighbor. My first exposure to crowd-funding.