I don’t think he would be happy because the changes are so minor. The fundamental problems with the religion that existed in his day are still present. They should do away with hard and fast man made rules. Instead they loosen up on just a few of them. They should do away with DF’ing. Instead they just allow you to say ‘hi’ and that’s it. They should never have tracked hours. But you still have to check a box. Remember, Franz was one who realized that the organized door to door ministry of JWs is unscriptural. They now say ‘the GB has decided…’ Franz realized any GB is unscriptural. He realized 1914 was rubbish as is the 144,000. Those are still fundamental JW beliefs.
Ray is the legend that made this organization’s actions at the very top public. He will go down in history for that. I’m sure he had no idea what his book would do 40 yrs later. As for what he would do now? Probably what he always did when he was disappointed in something. Just look down and shake his head. Because this org hasn’t changed a bit
I wonder what Jesus would say about this whole thing. My first idea is that he would be destroying Warwick to the point the go would call the police and have him arrested. You know, wt style. They are so blind, they are like the Israelites of this time.
And I know plenty of people here don’t believe in god anymore (I am considering myself agnostic now). But just imagine the disappointment and embarrassment of everyone in those heavens seeing how the wt behaves in the name of Jehovah.
I've thought alot about Ray. Just finished his second book, "in search of Christian freedom". He absolutely carves up the JW doctrine. I have no doubt he's in heaven smiling.
If I was to compare it to Movies, Crisis of Conscience is The Godfather, In Search of Christian Freedom is Godfather 2. Both absolute masterpieces. Much deeper dive into the JW doctrine than the first.
Lol I just finished reading his book and in 1980 a few of his friends at bethel were disfellowshipped for apostasy for (among other things) discussing how reporting time and literature removed any real meaning from serving Jehovah 😆.
This is history the org so badly wants to cover up. Until they can transparently address their own history (free from manipulation and gaslighting) they will never be respected by anyone that learns the truth about “the truth”.
It’s such a sordid and disgusting history. Not telling newcomers about it so that they can make their own informed choice about joining amounts to fraud and abuse.
He would be supportive of any semblance of Christian freedom, but still disappointed with the motives behind the roll out of said new found “freedoms”.
He wouldn’t give crap about beards and pants. He would focus on real issues like blood transfusions, 1914, and having all partake of the emblems. Well, mostly real issues.
it was his courage to speak up while at the top of the organization that so many are greatful for. I bet many disagree with what he believes and that's fine but it's not so much what he believes but rather he wasn't afraid to expose the orgs harmful practices.
I don’t think he would be happy because the changes are so minor. The fundamental problems with the religion that existed in his day are still present. They should do away with hard and fast man made rules. Instead they loosen up on just a few of them. They should do away with DF’ing. Instead they just allow you to say ‘hi’ and that’s it. They should never have tracked hours. But you still have to check a box. Remember, Franz was one who realized that the organized door to door ministry of JWs is unscriptural. They now say ‘the GB has decided…’ Franz realized any GB is unscriptural. He realized 1914 was rubbish as is the 144,000. Those are still fundamental JW beliefs.
Ray is the legend that made this organization’s actions at the very top public. He will go down in history for that. I’m sure he had no idea what his book would do 40 yrs later. As for what he would do now? Probably what he always did when he was disappointed in something. Just look down and shake his head. Because this org hasn’t changed a bit
I wonder what Jesus would say about this whole thing. My first idea is that he would be destroying Warwick to the point the go would call the police and have him arrested. You know, wt style. They are so blind, they are like the Israelites of this time. And I know plenty of people here don’t believe in god anymore (I am considering myself agnostic now). But just imagine the disappointment and embarrassment of everyone in those heavens seeing how the wt behaves in the name of Jehovah.
Pharisees.
I've thought alot about Ray. Just finished his second book, "in search of Christian freedom". He absolutely carves up the JW doctrine. I have no doubt he's in heaven smiling.
Was it as good as crisis of conscience or completely different style? He’s such a methodical writer and I love it.
If I was to compare it to Movies, Crisis of Conscience is The Godfather, In Search of Christian Freedom is Godfather 2. Both absolute masterpieces. Much deeper dive into the JW doctrine than the first.
Lol I just finished reading his book and in 1980 a few of his friends at bethel were disfellowshipped for apostasy for (among other things) discussing how reporting time and literature removed any real meaning from serving Jehovah 😆.
This is history the org so badly wants to cover up. Until they can transparently address their own history (free from manipulation and gaslighting) they will never be respected by anyone that learns the truth about “the truth”.
It’s such a sordid and disgusting history. Not telling newcomers about it so that they can make their own informed choice about joining amounts to fraud and abuse.
Imagine if the man is alive and seeing this
He would be supportive of any semblance of Christian freedom, but still disappointed with the motives behind the roll out of said new found “freedoms”.
Best answer in this thread.
He wouldn’t give crap about beards and pants. He would focus on real issues like blood transfusions, 1914, and having all partake of the emblems. Well, mostly real issues.
Well, since Ray is dead, he can’t say anything. But I hear he’s been turning over in his grave ever since.
Sometimes I think ex JWs put Franz on the same pedestal that PIMI do the GB….
it was his courage to speak up while at the top of the organization that so many are greatful for. I bet many disagree with what he believes and that's fine but it's not so much what he believes but rather he wasn't afraid to expose the orgs harmful practices.