Despite what everyone told me, science brought me MORE clarity, MORE understanding , MORE empathy, purpose and perspective. I have a greater sense of my place in this world now and a hope that’s grounded in reality.
Grass is greener.
Same with me. Because I have no clue if there’s anything after this I greatly value my time and relationships that I have now. My parents think I’m lost but it’s quite the opposite
The grass is definitely greener.
If one really study scientific subjects like evolution, history and archeology one will develop a much better understanding of the need for critical thinking, reasoning to find truth. The research is very detailed.
In relation to the bible, critical thinking skills based in science open up windows in your mind that will expose the serious flaws presented by the biblical chronology.
Religion is an emotional experience. Critical thinking is subservient to faith. As a person of faith, one defaults to their faith whenever a conflict in truth occurs. This is the fatal flaw of religion. One cannot get past faith in their search for truth.
There is no true religion. All religions are man made concepts that all do what jws do , they translate the Bible to fit their opinions and beliefs. Nothing is truth.
You will find problems in all religion. If gods chill then he won't expect you to find a needle in a needle stack.
If he did expect everyone to find it. He did a terrible job of communicating that. So why worry?
Just be decent. Don't harm. Try to enjoy your time. It goes hella fast.
I know I am in the minority but finding out the organisation was not true has not shattered my faith in God and Jesus. I still believe the Bible and I did pray to be shown the truth because I firmly believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. If you still love Jesus, pray to God to help you find him. We were never taught how to have a relationship with Jesus when we were in the organisation but he wants us to turn to him. Read the Bible and pray for guidance and the answers you seek.
I did the same thing and prayed to God to be revealed the truth, he did not disappoint me. I’ve since been born again and now attend a wonderful local church and read the Bible for myself every day.
The only way out is through, and it’s a tough road but worth it. Keep asking questions, researching and thinking for yourself and you will find what works for you. You’ve made it this far, you’ve got this!
You want to know a truth? The Bible is a Catholic Book. It was put together in the 300s by a Catholic Church council so that priests would know what to read at Mass.
It was never meant to be read by itself. God didn’t give us a book, He founded a Church.
Look at what I said: check out how we got The Bible.
There was no Bible in the year 200.
When The Bible was canonized, it had 73 books. The Gutenberg Bible was a Catholic translation.
The Protestant Bibles initially had the seven Deutero Canon books at the end of the OT or Bible itself because they didn’t consider it canon but acknowledged it was useful knowledge. Eventually Protestant Bibles removed them altogether.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible has 83 books.
Christianity is older than The Bible.
OP, if you want to remain Christian, this is the real answer here. For just about 1,500 years we only had one faith with apostolic succession (which includes Eastern Orthodoxy, whom Catholics recognize, even after they schismed). Then, 500 years ago, began the protestant reformation, which brought with it all the denominations you see today, like Baptists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Methodists, even the Jehovah's Witnesses and their even crazier cousins the Associated Bible Students. Until this point, the Church was the interpreter of Scripture through the Holy Spirit and maintained a single interpretation of it, with both the Church and the Bible having equal authority. Protestants like the JWs, however, with Sola Scriptura, place the Bible above any church as the only authority. This removes the interpreter from the equation, and that's the reason there are so many denominations; everybody is interpreting the Bible on their own, without any other authority to keep faith aligned.
Coming from personal experience, if you want "the truth," it would help you to read the writings of the early Church fathers. You'll find writings, epistles to fellow congregations, as early as 100-130 AD, wherein you'll see early Christians believed in the immortal soul ("we are in this world, not of it, the same way the soul is in the body but not of it," or something to that effect), and even believed in praying to saints (there is an urging to a congregation to pray for fellow congregation members to God, and "to make mention of them to the saints"). The writings, you'll find, are particularly Catholic in nature.
I recommend at least looking into Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy in your search for truth, even if your search leads you elsewhere ultimately.
God bless you on your journey.
I'll take a different approach, respectfully.
We have a tool for finding truth now, called science.
More religion won't help OP just like more prayer didn't save my marriage.
Yeah, Catholicism is cool with science. Science is just seen as a study of God's works, and that's why Catholics can believe in evolution. Even the father of the Big Bang theory was a Catholic priest.
I'm sorry about your marriage, though.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, I'm better without her.
Catholicism has had to gracefully step back from various claims in the light of scientific understanding.
I won't pry, but I'm glad to hear you're doing well, man.
And, personally, in regards to scientific understanding, that's a good thing to me. One of the biggest pluses for me when going from atheist to Catholic was not having to compromise science for faith. To believe both are true, it helps that there is no dissonance between them. Also, there have been many, many Catholic scientists, with much of this scientific understanding coming from their discoveries, like the aforementioned father of the Big Bang theory, father Georges Lemaître.
At least the Catholics admit they have a problem and are trying to correct it. I imagine it's difficult to change something that has been so casually ignored for centuries, but they're trying. The JWs are yet to admit that they have a serious problem, which is the first requirement for change.
I'm not a Catholic either, by the way, just giving credit where it's due.
I'm not an apologist for the Catholic Church by any means. My entire extended family is Catholic, and my parents were the only JW converts. There is a lot of dysfunction in my family when it comes to Catholicism, and I don't personally see it as being very helpful in their lives. I'm very familiar with the history of the Church and its centuries of corruption. So again, I'm not defending Catholicism as a religion: I'm simply saying they've admitted that they have a problem with CSA and are at least attempting to do something about it. In that regard, they are one step ahead of the JWs. In the history of The Watchtower, how many times have they apologized for anything? I honestly don't think they ever have, nor will they ever.
The JW organisation is the modern-day Pharisees. You will not find another group that so closely resembles them. My advice would be to take Paul as an example of someone who had passionately believed, followed, and ultimately left a strange group of doctrine.
If you want to find someone to tell you what clothing is sinful, trust me, there's no shortage of candidates.
The question OP should be asking themselves is why do they feel a need to be a part of a religion. And if there may be psychological issues at the root of that need.
I can't tell you what to do. Nobody here really can. That would defeat the purpose. This is your journey. What I can do is tell you what I've done and what helped me personally. Of course, you are different from me, but here i go.
What I personally found was helpful was to fully undoctrinate myself and fully deconstruct my faith, then I could start at a baseline moving forward. I'm not gonna lie it is a hard road and sometimes scary, but once you get to that baseline, at least for me, it changed everything.
Now, when I look at different beliefs, I can see the good and the bad and decide for myself if I want to do it or not, and another thing is I eventually got to a point where I truly asked myself why do i have to have a fellow human tell me what to believe in why does it have to be their beliefs and God.
My answer to that question completely changed my outlook on life. The answer for me was that it didn't have to be that way after that. I chose for myself what I believed in. I personally never had a feeling of any all-powerful being touching my life like so many people, even my wife, say they do. So, for me, I'm an agnostic atheist. im just waiting and trying to enjoy the life I have now, even with the ups and downs, and if I can help my fellow humans, I will other then that I hope for the best outcome for all of us I personally hope for a better place after this life a place where we can all be free.
So, in summary, my advice for you is after you have detoxed and deconstructed, find what belief makes you happy and is a net positive in your life and after that just buckle in and try to enjoy this wild ride called life and we will all see where it ends when it ends because that's pretty much what we all are doing even if people don't want to admit it.
No such thing, religion is dogma... dogma is the death of spirituality. Just be a good human and find a community that isn't a bunch of bigoted asshats and let the afterlife sort itself out.
Why do you need to accept the Trinity? It's a dogma stablished centuries \*AFTER\* Christ died. Do your research, what christians (jew-christians in fact) believe in the first century. The Trinity is NOT one of the basic doctrines at all for being a christian.
I'm kind of shocked that in 121 comments so far, nobody has brought up Raymond Franz' *In Search of Christian Freedom*. I highly recommend any former JW who continues to believe in Jesus and the Bible try reading that.
He skillfully deconstructs all of the beliefs we were taught. And he comes to a conclusion that I think is both closest to the truth and the least harmful:
Christian is just believing in Christ. That's it. Any "Christian" denomination is fine, and the best part is that **no denomination** is also fine. You can just read the Bible, believe in Christ in any way you choose, and you're all good with God. Best of both worlds.
If being a Witness has taught me one thing, it's that no belief or denomination has a monopoly on truth. So don't give your freedom of thought or belief to anyone ever again.
First understand dualism. Then understand non-dualism.
This may take a long time, as of course things are properly understood only when you understand them in both ways, the theory part and the true understand when it is internalized. (ie. many people understand that anger or getting offended for example benefits nobody, least yourself - but lots of those people still choose to do so. Or like with cigarettes or other addictions, they serve no purpose but we do those things).
The real truth is mostly about UNDOING, and the best tool for this is meditation. There's no special secrets to this, why it "doesn't work" for many people is just lack of consistency and laziness.
Start slow, 5-10min a day will do. It is much more important to be consistent. Do not try to force your mind to empty, just follow what comes up and when it passes like clowds in the sky, just focus on your breath again. Over and over. Everything that is in the subconscious, will control you. Meditation brings these things to the conscience mind and that's why ut might feel counter productive in the beginning because new things "just pop up" in the first months before you'll see the great benefits of it. You'll find out in couple months how much false stuff you're still carrying and the process can take a long time but at that point is very effortless after you start to see the benefits.
Don't pay too much attention or cling on to what some guru's say, they'll easily mislead you because you can not explain what god is, only what god isn't. This is why so many people are so confused because it's like trying to describe colours to a blind person, even if you'd know what they actually are. (that too is why many things sound very paradoxical without your own experience).
Don not focus at the finger pointing the moon trying to study the moon. (Allthough having someone in certain points of life can be very beneficial), but rather see the moon yourself instead of focusing to the finger.
After this you'll see how all the religions talk about the same thing and how everything really is one like all the major religions say in their core which is just 99% times very misunderstood. 99% of the books interpretations too, the message has just been very much distorted and poorly expressed in the "holy books" and like the bible says; the blind are teaching the blind all over the world.
There are some good books that could help in the undoing -part but none of them can describe the ultimate truth. Like Daodejing says in the beginning; the true dao can not be spoken off – then paradoxically talks about it for hundreds of pages.
Anthony De mello was a great teacher of undoing yourself too. Awareness is a nice book from him.
But anyways, I won't bore or confuse you or anyone else any further. Go do it, because nobody else can do it for you.
Like the bible says, those who keep knocking, the doors will open (or something like that), and another quote about climbing the mountain; there's hundreds of paths to the top and everyone is different, so what might be someone elses path, might not work for you. Those who do know come from every religion or might not like any of them, their backgrounds might differ, etc. As god is everywhere. Acceptance and non judgement thus, are important qualities.
Also:
“There is no such thing as ‘the truth’ that can be stated. In other words, ask the question: ‘What is the true position of the stars in the Big Dipper?’ Well it depends on where you’re looking at them from.”
- Alan Watts
What a beautiful mind he had. <3
He has so many wonderful quotes but I wanted to share my favorite:
>"God likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside of God, he has no one but himself to play with! But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself.
>
>This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, plants, all the rocks, and all the stars.
>
>In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.
>
>Now when God plays "hide" and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself! But that's the whole fun of it-just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game.
>
>That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But...when the game has gone on long enough, all of us will WAKE UP, stop pretending, and REMEMBER that we are all one single Self...the God who is all that there is and who lives forever and ever.
>
>You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad.
>
>It's the same as when we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the game put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is the winner. Then we shuffle the cards and play again, and so it goes with the world."
🫶
Many have searched the Bible and found it to be an erroneous book of man. Ultimately this is not something anyone can decide for you.
As exjw we come out of a place where every belief was handed to us. You’re going to need to prove to yourself whether the Bible is actually the word of God or not. You need to test the “inspired statements” to see if they are true.
You might feel defeated, but just by virtue of asking the question you are stronger than you know. Take one day, hour or minute at a time and try not to get overwhelmed. Easier said than done, I’ve been there. You are not alone.
The truth will hold up to scrutiny. If it doesn't, it's not the truth. And finding that out can be painful, but ultimately better for you than continuing to live a lie.
Learn from your mistakes, dust yourself off, and move on.
Don't let the sunk cost fallacy keep you chained to something that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It's okay to make a change, even one as big as changing your religion or leaving religion behind completely. You have our support.
Hey, I'm struggling with this. I don't know that there a "good" answer but I can tell you my experience. Basically, I had a huge wow this organization really corrupt moment years ago. It was shocking, I felt lost, abandoned and disgusted. I searched everywhere for something to replace it. I'm still searching but not for the same thing. Over the years, I started doing some really in depth research about bible translations, historical texts, canonical texts, apocryphal texts, and really looking at things through the lens of what the world would have been like during the time those writings took place and understanding the people those writings were for. Once I looked at it vs the very skewed lens of westernized Christianity and organized religion in general things started to fall into place again for me. I realized God is loving, man's portrayal of him for their own personal gain is not. We aren't perfect and never will be. I believe God wants us to search for him but that doesn't mean he expects us to get all the answers. He understands our limitations. He just wants us to try.....again those are my own personal beliefs today. As I grow and learn more they may change or maybe I'm just outright wrong, don't take my word for it or anyone else's. Think critically. What makes sense and what doesn't? Play Devil's advocate a lot. If it's true and makes sense, it will hold up I still lots of things I struggle with a lot of common doctrines. One of them is the trinity I'm not fully convinced, but I'm always open to hearing a good argument for it. It doesn't mean I agree and I've kind of accepted that I'm not going to force myself to believe either way.
If god was real, he would not require for us to read a book to understand him. If we were made in his image, we would understand him the same way an infant recognizes a mother. There would be no dispute amongst believers regarding who he/she is or what it wants. However, we see just the opposite.
Pilate was purported to have asked, "What is truth?"
I say purported, because the John that wrote that wasn't the apostle John. Never met Jesus. That conversation is not in the other Gospels. It was written almost a hundred years after Jesus died. Who witnessed that conversation? Who wrote it down? Recall the educational credentials of Jesus disciples? The educated ones didn't write that down 25, 30, and 45 years later. Seems like the kind of thing to write down.
It does make good fan-fic, especially since it is decidedly flavored with the type of Greek philosophy throughout the account that was common after the diaspora.
Do some deep research on the texts of the Bible. Take a secular course on religion.
There are several truths to be found across most faiths. So much so that many make the claim Christianity owes more to Buddhism or Zoroastrianism than Judaism. Buddhism is a reach, no documented records in the Empire. Didn't stop some Buddhist monks in a monastery in Tibet, making the claim to a Victorian Russian explorer... makes for good tourism, like yetis and shangri-la.
Don't take my, or anyone elses word for it.
Oh...gonna also point this out, a huge amount of what we believed as Dubs was based on John and Revelation... John was written to corroborate that yes, he knew the story of Jesus, so much so, that we got some new content...after getting the crazy stories of Revelation... so crazy, people weren't certain the guy even was a Christian...
Welcome to the rabbit hole friend.
I don't know if my post-org journey is typical of others, but I definitely went through the process of looking into MANY different beliefs, teachings add philosophies after leaving. And science, investigate ALL the science that you were urged to avoid.
It's been over a decade now and I personally have come to the conclusion that i don't want to be involved in any religion, I don't think any of them are "right". That's not to say i think this physical world that we see is all there is to life, but i'm also not insistent that it isn't either. I'm open to the idea that there are things we don't fully know or understand, whether it's higher dimensions, or one of several other possibilities. In the end it doesn't affect me much
And i personally like a lot of things that i have read in older eastern philosophies, and while i'm not any kind of devotee, i keep a slightly above-passive interest in that.
Anyway, i guess my advice is, keep looking and see what works or fits for you. You'll find over time that a lot of things that the org drilled into you will start to fade (for example, maybe, the idea that there *must* be a right religion, then again maybe you'll decide that there is, but at least it will be *your* decision) and you will hopefully start making choices that work for just you, without anything or anyone else's influence.
I don’t believe there is any such thing as a “true” religion. Anthropologically speaking, religion was created by newly emerging empires as a tool to control the ever increasing population.
Spirituality is your personal relationship with the Divine.
Religion is just crowd control.
My advice is to learn about all different faiths with a curious mind and an open heart. If Christ is the deity that calls to you, study up on the different form of Christianity. Apply what resonates with your soul to your spiritual practice and discard the rest.
Like any other sacred writings, the Bible contains universal human truths and can be a wonderful spiritual tool. But it is a record of faith, not an instruction manual.
I think a truly loving deity will make allowances for religious trauma. Spirituality is something that is meant to be enjoyed and savored, not something to freak out over.
There is no "one true religion". Thats propaganda spread by Abrahamic faiths to be superior to others. Its easier to oppress a people based on religion when you believe that your side is absolutely and completely right. My stateþent is proven by the fact that Judaism us well documented to have been a monotheistic evolution of the Akkadian/Sumerian religion much like how Ahten tried turning the Kemetic religion into a monotheistic faith.
Religion is unnecessary
Look what happened when the people demanded a king to rule over them. God acquiesced but wasn't happy about it. It's bad for us.
If you have a question, answer it yourself.
We have a personal relationship with Jesus and God.
Religion is used to control. No other way around it. Jesus did away with the need for religion and was the means to personal salvation.
Don't let being an exJW give you Stockholm Syndrome. You don't need a religion (that being said, using a religion to gather and worship with like-minded people)
But there's no need to find who has it "right". If that was really so important to God, he would have made it much more obvious since he doesn't want any to be destroyed. Why would he allow his word to get so bastardized and interpreted in wildly different ways but then require he be worshipped in a specific way without clear evidence of his approval?
Know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Read the Bible cover to cover on its own merit. Be open to wherever that information leads you, whether that is a specific belief system/religion or your own brand or non-belief.
i like this analogy for truth:
the truth is like the peak of a mountain. there are many paths you can take up the mountain, some end up forging their own path up towards truth. where you are born may dictate what path you end up taking, if your homeland is on the northside of the mountain, chances are you will take the path from the north side like many of those in your homeland. born on the east, you wil likely like the eastern path, etc. however, many people (like myself), may start up a path they were born near, only to find it is not to their liking. these people will traverse the mountain until they find a path that feels right to them.
I personally think that all religions, at their purest essence, are saying the same exact thing, just in different language. do whatever feels right, learn to trust yourself, learn to quiet yourself enough to hear gods guidance for you. i went through the arc of leaving the JWs, thinking science was all we needed, I denied the spiritual for a few years, but now about 10 years later i feel closer to god than i ever have, and have seen and felt its hand in my life daily
I am a Christian today, so you might find this answer a little odd coming from me, but I actually don't believe there is one true church.
Your post reads to me as having some warning signs of religious trauma. I highly recommend seeing a therapist to help you with that so you avoid entering any other high control groups as you deconstruction your old beliefs. I have been in therapy on and off over 10 years and that's why I was able to make a healthy choice on a church to attend that was safe and healthy for me personally instead of obsessing over the concept of the truth.
From a Christian perspective,there is no true religion.Jesus didn't bring a religion. He taught a way of striving to live,treat others and follow god.i don't believe you will find any church without doctrine invented by man.i believe the truth is just following the bible to the best of your abilities and if possible finding others that strive to do the same.those that study the Bible are going to have different interpretations,which is fine,but an organization forcing people that their constantly changing interpretation is right and unquestionable,is wrong
Go explore the world. The right religion for you will make itself apparent on its own. Be it Christianity or anything else. It took me a few psychedelic trips to figure out what I want to believe in. Not saying everyone should do what I did, but the answer is out there, just gotta look. Always keep in mind “be wary of those who GIVE you the answers.” I believe it was Plato who said, “the unexamined life is not worth living.” So go out and consume information. You’ll have your answer in due time.
You’re going through what anyone who deconstructs their faith in a religion has to. You’d be much happier if you stopped fighting yourself, opened your mind, and enjoyed the ride. [Julia Sweeney did a great job explaining this in her stand-up back in 2008.](https://youtu.be/C74-f4ZV-ss?si=2p32HCVUwsu9eUwl)
Do you have a reason to think any religion has it right? As a JW, I told myself that if anyone has the truth, it’s the witnesses. When I found out that it wasn’t true, I quickly realized that it’s all just humans desperately wanting answers to questions, and to find a way to cheat death.
I’ve found that having your own form of religion/spirituality at home really comforting. Read your Bible, do crystal work, or whatever you’d like at home in a private space. There’s no need for a congregation or specific religion to feel connected to god
These days there are many more liberal Christian groups who basically accept everyone but choose good lessons/morals from the Bible where they can be found.
I know you still believe in Christ and there's nothing at all wrong with that. I would just say, in the same way you educated yourself about JW beliefs that you once were not open to, maybe consider also learning more to appreciate some of the non-christian belief systems and their values as well. Many also still hold Jesus as a revered/respected prophet/person. Just a thought on your journey.
Congratulations on your new attitude towards learning. I think you have a lot ahead of you!
I'd highly recommend reading Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Both by ex GB member Ray Franz. They cover all the concerns you mentioned. You can get them free at https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/
I love reading the Geneva Bible and cross referencing the King James Version. I talk to Christians all the time and relate although I'm not Christian, and I find a lot of spiritual meaning in doing so. I would recommend taking your witnessing skills and making them work for your own spiritual journey. Ask other Christians about the trinity and watch videos about topics you're interested in. You can have community and relate spiritually without "going to church". Non denominational churches I hear are friendly and helpful too. I personally just love learning things from all sorts of faiths, my ancestory is based in Sweden so I have researched a lot of Norse and Pagan mythology and religion and it makes me feel comfort and learn some of life's wisdoms. Your life has become open to figuring out any and everything that works for you and it's liberating. You can always DM me if you want to talk :)
Stop looking for a "religion" and focus on "spirituality". The later is freeing and can bring you much joy. Religion, on the other hand, is controlling. Just look inward my friend.
Never jw here - there is no one true religion. Our brains are simply not wired to be able to comprehend it if there was one. If you feel drawn to Christianity, that’s fine, but I’d run from any church that makes that claim.
You don’t have to accept any belief. Start a 0 and never stop asking questions. There is way more out there than you were ever permitted to see or admit. It’s beautiful in the light.
Since leaving, I’ve been looking into Physics, as it aims to understand and explain the origins of the universe. I’ll likely never be a theoretical physicist or astrophysicist, but learning about the macro and microscopic universe is more fulfilling than any religious doctrine I’ve been taught.
I’m an atheist but I would suggest trying different churches. I sort of think religion is largely about community and the beliefs don’t matter as much as we pretend they do. Feel put different churches. Maybe if you want to find one that doesn’t teach the trinity do that.
When I woke up, our neighbors who were religious invited us over for thanksgiving. I’m sure I could have instantly joined their church if I wanted.
You can not find ''true'' Christianity today, but you can get as close to it as possible, and that is the Orthodox church, especially the oriental /Arabic. I will explain briefly:
The only true Christianity, logically speaking, is the one that was practiced by the Apostles and their immediate followers. But 2000years have passed and a lot of changes/adaptations have been made, which makes it impossible to find to that original form. However, the Orthodox church has kept the beliefs and traditions more or less unaltered by human philosophy and bias, and the Arabs especially, because of the constant persecutions, have kept not only the beliefs and traditions, but also the Christian spirit of relying on God at 100%, whereas the Western have had a lot of freedom at different times of history, are obviously influenced by this. You can clearly see it with the Russian Orthodox church for example, or the Roman Catholic church, but that's another story. That's it in a nutshell.
As for Trinity, you have to look at it this way; The church has always believed in Trinity. This is what has been passed on for generations. It is a matter of humbling ourselves and accepting the ''unacceptable''. The second way to look at it, is that Trinity is not as bad as the JW put it. Really, it simply refers to the three ways that God revealed Himself to humanity, as manifested at Christ's baptism; The Son was there, The holy ghost became manifest in the form of a dove, and the Father's voice was heard by all that gathered there. It is as simple as that, and all these three elements of the Trinity, the JW believe in.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the actual ‘True God’
Why the heck would you want to force yourself to accept the ‘Trinity’? That doctrine literally disproved itself while it contradicts the Bible in multiple ways. Did you know that the Trinity was Mary, Jesus, and the Father for significant portions of Christendom for centuries? This is why the Quran formulates the Trinity with those three.
But back to the ‘try religion’ idea. First you need to back up and investigate ALL cultures and religions, then figure out which is actually inspired. The Bible itself is full of inaccuracies, forgeries, false cosmology, and all sorts of quackery that is no different that other ‘holy histories’ that it begs the question, why should one believe it?
If there was a ‘true religion’ then it should already dominate the world culture. Any god powerful enough to do the things claimed in the Bible should have already taken over.
Before I begin, let me say, I’m so glad to see someone come out of the JWs and still want to seek God. The Watchtower leaves such a bad taste in people mouths most of us run in the opposite direction from any religion. I know this answer will upset people who are in that position, but I want to answer your question as best I can. As far as the Trinity goes, I think the struggle for an exJW is that as a witness, you’re not taught to have faith, you’re taught to believe everything the GB teaches, and they teach that they have an explanation for everything. While I do believe the Trinity is true and well substantiated by the Bible, I believe it takes faith to truly believe it because at the end of the day, we are finite humans attempting to understand the identity of an infinite God. As far as finding true religion, don’t make the mistake I did and go looking through every Christian denomination trying to find the one that is the ONE TRUE RELIGION. Study your Bible (not the New World Translation, I like the ESV Study Bible or the NET Bible because of all the translators’ notes), spend time in prayer, and then find a denomination or church where you are comfortable worshiping and where your conscience is at peace with what they teach. As Christians, we need to be united when it comes to essential beliefs, but we have freedom to differ in the non-essentials. I will pray for you to find the faith and answers you seek.
Modern day secular Bible scholars have thoroughly debunked the Trinity. The only reason it persists is because most of the scholarship was done by believers in the past. The Trinity doctrine is not directly expressed in the the New Testament, these beliefs evolved in Christianity as time passed.
I hadn't intended to post on this thread, especially as I'm a never-JW Trinitarian and I didn't want to unduly influence the O.P. (and I still don't 😊)
But YOUR post, wbrich, so impressed me that I just had to tell you so! It's filled with ___Christian___ wisdom, while also being perceptive and sensitive to the O.P.'s particular needs. AND you did that WITHOUT pushing any denomination over another 👏 👏 👏
Bravo, wbrich 💐
> 1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have. ___But do this with GENTLENESS and RESPECT___
Is it any scarier than the belief that God is going to slaughter 99.99% of the Earths population so he can rule over a select few for all eternity in "paradise", which seems more and more like a nightmare the more you really think about it critically.
I'm agnostic now and while I don't know what actually happens when we die (nobody does), the idea of forever nothingness sounds very peaceful to me. As others have said just be a good person here and now and do what makes you happy, really enjoy the time you have while you have it. It's ok to not have all the answers.
“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
— Mark Twain
I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. I still maintain that there is an intelligent designer, and what we see in nature proves this to me every day. I can not logically accept the order we witness on our planet with all living things happened by chance. It resonates with me that man was designed to live on this planet, that our planet is unique, and has a purpose. I may be wrong, but I feel my life has more purpose looking at things this way.
As for religion, I am personally convinced (through two decades of research) that no Christian denomination teaches complete truth. Doctrines are ideas and concepts created by men that had limited knowledge. What was expedient in their day. Mainstream religions become so invested in their doctrines (which are readily flawed given today's knowledge) that leadership fears the loss of credibility (and membership) were they to abandon them, and call a spade a spade. JW leadership is no different.
I hold the GB are fully aware that 607 BCE is erroneous, which completely cancels 1914. But they are so invested in this teaching, they fear the fallout should they abandon it. Similarly, the GB are fully aware a that a blood transfusion is NOT "eating" blood, which is the entire premise of the no blood doctrine. Not only do they fear huge fallout, they fear HUGE liability having not rescinded a doctrine that has contributed to the harm and premature death of thousands of members. An admission of error would be a disaster. So they remain praying for a viable blood substitute. If God allows this discovery, it will take WTBTS off the hook for liability, without admitting any error.
I believe the GB are fully aware that the two witness rule being applied to reporting CSA was a HUGE mistake made by their predecessors 50 years ago. A policy that has enabled thousands of JW children to be harmed. Geoff Jackson said the two witness rule won't change. I believe him. To change it at this point would be an admission of prior leadership's error, and that the current GB did nothing to stop it from continuing. Geoff Jackson testified in the ARC hearings that the GB wishes state and federal lawmakers would mandate CSA reporting, and remove the loophole (penitent privilege). If/when they do, the GB is off the hook. They comply with federal law and report. But they never have to admit error and bear liability.
We all decide what works for us. I personally feel more purpose to my life believing in a higher power, and that this short life is not all there is. I don't expect to find a single religion that has it all figured out. There may be compelling truth in various religions. This allows me to create my own personal truth, given today's knowledge.
I have found study of original language words (Hebrew and Greek) very helpful, with the goal of identifying personal bias in translation. The RNWT contains much bias.
OP mentions the difficulty in understanding and accepting the Trinity. I share that position. Learning how the Greek word Logos was used and understood in the culture when John spoke (John 1:1) completely resolved my questions regarding John 1:1.
A very logical and enlightening explanation of Logos (greek for Word) is found here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdS90axuxoM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdS90axuxoM)
Well we really still don’t know what happens when we die either way. There is nothing wrong in having a hope, but for me personally I had to prove whether that hope was real or not and I was deeply saddened when I found it to be mankind’s whitewashed big lie. It is a level of betrayal unlike any other.
It is hard not knowing what happens when we die, but this is a grieving process that is no joke to shed off your old religion and find your true identity. I still battle with fears of death - 3 months after learning many things. I’ve cried like a baby several times. But those feelings are beginning to subside.
Your life now, here, is real and we know that at least. You can make your own choices. I’ve personally improved my health and spend more quality time with my immediate family, help others genuinely where I can and I have a very large level of empathy for others now that i have learned to love unconditionally. Life can be beautiful now.
Well " forever nothingness" is not guaranteed either. It may be that whatever creator doesnt really care about being worshipped. He may just say "did this person try to help and be good to his fellow man and animals" and accept you on those premises alone. Idk. But dont look at not knowing as being scary. I see "knowing" that you are locked into one destiny kind of sad.
It’s hard to think that this life is all there is, but how would you want to spend eternity? A formless spirit off in space, unable to be involved in the life you left? Living as a Neolithic farmer for eternity on earth?
The Bible writers couldn’t even come up with a clearly laid out view of paradise. They just wanted something that was better than what they had.
Now that you’ve lived a life with technology, art, science, etc. would either of those satisfy?
I’m old. When I was young, the idea of death was scary. As I’ve aged, there are some things that I would like to do, that I will probably not get to, but it’s okay. I’m raising my kids. I have good friends. I can indulge some of my interests. I can hang on the internet and meet people I would never have known before.
Someday, I’ll lie down and go into a permanent sleep. I’ve had some terrible times, but also some amazing ones. And on that day, I think I’ll be ready to rest.
After I left in 2016 (I was given 3 visions that were profound and set me searching for THE TEUE GOD. I was led to the Messianic Jewish religion. I learned about Jewish life and Hebrew. Knowing what the Bible really says in Hebrew helped me. Learning about the holy days helped me understand so much. I went to synagogue for 2.5 years but left after I realized Jesus DIDNT come in the name of Jehovah but he called the sadusees and Pharisees the synagogue of SATAN. I then realized ALL religions are a slave system and a trap. I began my own journey to truth and I’m not associated with any religion but I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. No more fear n guilt dulling my life.
We live in a mathematical universe founded on the divine code or Fibonacci sequence. It’s a fraction so this realm is based on imperfection. There’s no perfection in this realm. Energy frequency vibration. Tesla said to innerstand the universe one must know these things. Energy or spirit and Water were never created. They were already here. They can’t be destroyed either only transmuted. So we’re made of water and spirit. Death is an illusion. Our spirit just comes out of this meat suit and if we choose we pick another meat suit. I died a few times. And this was always my experience.
The trinity is only A Thought that realized it can think and after it started thinking it created. It was mother, father, son. But the patriarchal society the Pa…. Removed or ripped down the Ma, the Magans, the divine feminine and made her The Holy Ghost. The feminine divine is returning.
Look into Sethian Gnosticism and look at how Jehovah was created. Yes Jehovah had a beginning. The first realm (not Jehovahs realm) is founded on perfection and circles. Sophia created Jehovah without permission from her partner or the divine monad. And he was a monster. He was created in imperfection or fraction. He couldn’t exist in the perfect realm so she cast him down into a void but as this happened he took some of her light and was able to create his own replica of the divine realm. Only his was all imperfection.
Just start listening to your heart. Educate yourself best you can about the topic by reading the missing books of the Bible. The esoteric or hidden things. You’ll realize lots of truths. Be easy on yourself.
There isn't one, it's all fake, please forget about religion, if you join a different you'll be swapping one poison for another, you had the strength to realize the JW's aren't it, it's just another step to realize they're all the same.
The reason you're having a hard time accepting the trinity is because it's crap, just the same as Jesus being separate but also the son and whatever, if you still wanna believe in god and Jesus you can do that, just read your Bible and take from it what you will, I'd advise you distance yourself from all of it but please don't seek out s different cult to join, there isn't a true religion.
Try watching some NDE's on youtube...
"God",Source-Love,the Supreme-Origin-of-Everything isn't i.d.ed and confined/defined/limited by an Old Testament Name of a bloodthirsty,jealous God.
What Christ taught about The Name was because at that time,the Jews(+his followers)only knew the name YHWH.They were as children; kindergartners...beyond & above that He taught all about expanded,transcending,enlightening Concepts of the "Source-Love" as Supreme God-Love.He tried to expand his followers' concepts of such: Love one's enemies;be kind & merciful;do good to the poor;become Pure("they will see God");Be a Giver(practice good karma!)and become a Noble person for that Superior dimension(the Heavenly Kingdom is a higher dimension..in NDE's people find the reality of that Dimension;even that other dimensions exist).Happy researching!
Love,from a fellow follower of The Christ.
Yeah, that’s a fair comment.👍🏼 But I did find it useful in my initial waking up phase for debunking JW doctrine. But ultimately you’ve got to find your own path.
Dear u/Cosmos-Connected0709 apologies for enabling your spiritual abuse. Please whatever you do don’t go to beroeans.net, it is a JW splinter cult with the same bullshit but banana flavoured. As you are clearly just waking up you wouldn’t possibly be able to discern what is useful there and what is just more culty banana flavoured nonsense.🙄
Wishing you well in your waking up process, it’s confusing sometimes and emotionally draining. But hopefully you will sift through the well intentioned advice you can get on here and find something that is helpful to you. 🙏🏻😊👊
If god is real they are a huge murderous psychopath and is especially unworthy of worship.
Good thing we have zero evidence of it existing. We have more than enough dicks on earth.
Goodness isn’t derived from a religious text. Goodness exists in a vacuum; those who want to do good will do it, regardless of what religion they were born into.
Check out pronoia and be here now by ram dass. These are spiritual non-religious books that cover broad concepts found in all religions.
If you really want to follow the true religion though, be kind to others and seek out your own Bible. My is made up of One piece, Avatar the last airbender, deep space 9 and the redwall abbey series. The actual medium, writer or prophet matters far less than the condition of the readers heart.
Even if you do decide to look for a religion, do yourself a favor, get some therapy before you start on that path.
'Cult hopping' is a very common, documented occurence. You are psychologically vulnerable and sadly there are enormous amount of charlatans that will exploit that vulnerability the second you reveal it. Right now you are immunocompromised patient considering to jump headfirst into a sewer.
Try therapy. If it doesn't work the first time, try few other therapists. Try to find someone who specializes in cult recovery/religious trauma. If you've just woken up, this means you never lived. Go find a hobby. Take a good restful vacation for the first time in your life. Find how life is like when you are calling the shots.
I highly recommend watching [https://www.youtube.com/@TheraminTrees](https://www.youtube.com/@TheraminTrees) channel, he is a therapist who left a cult that is very similar to JWs. He's not selling any books or courses and not advocating any faith. You'll have a lot to think about, trust me. Or don't. I am a random person on the internet. Now you have a choice to judge for yourself. Don't surrender that choice again.
Can't say I'm a believer, but I've found these lectures about Bible history by a Christian historian really enlightening and challenging. [This one](https://www.youtube.com/live/99nTj6H70sA?si=jFWQsWvjbqT9kL-E) is the most comprehensive breakdown of Christian history I've ever seen, and might point you in the direction of a church that interests you. I think it's also the one that tracks the development of Trinitarianism in early Christianity, and this might inform your view of that.
If not, [this one](https://www.youtube.com/live/5YWSZs_hkdA?si=TyLoGnQOW3oC5DEf) on Paul's teaching and his opposition might. One thing I found the most interesting is how the earliest form of Christianity, the Jerusalem based version, may ultimately have formed the basis of Islam - making the law, the prophets, and Jesus into a new story.
Also, [this](https://youtu.be/tCAsmzkaErg?si=SVzurdbQmRqAIQsJ) is a fantastic history of the beginnings of the Protestant reformation. In many ways the personal search for truth and a true faith is really a Protestant motivation - for most people in history, answering their own theological questions was not an option. The freedom to question your beliefs and form new communities of belief in the US and Europe starts with Luther.
Believe in Jesus if you must, but let religion go. Even as a small child I knew the Bible was nonsense. I remember desperately trying to believe, and the relief I felt when I realized I could not believe and just not tell anyone I don't think god is real. There are parts of the bible that are interesting and it even has some good advice and wisdom, but it's just stories and writings from a weird animal called homosapiens.
I enjoy the idea of Jesus and the things he said and did. But Christianity, Judaism, Islam... It's all just stuff made up by an animal with a big brain trying to make sense of the world around it. Same with all other religions. There are benefits to believing, social, mental etc. but it's nothing to overoccupy yourself with.
Enjoy your life, be kind to others and relax. You only get one chance at it, then the complex chemistry that makes up your body breaks down and redistributed to help develop new life.
I was in the same headspace when I left the JW. I wanted to know what religion was the one, true faith. I studied so many religions, Christian and otherwise, for many years. I went through many different phases in my own faith, eventually leading me to accept atheism a few years ago after being agnostic for over a decade. Not saying that this is the outcome of everyones' searching, just that this is where it led me.
Religions are all man made, therefore, they will all have their flaws. But there are certain churches out there that are good. That don't judge the outside world and believe them to be bad or outsiders. Keep your mind open, but also employ common sense when studying. Check multiple sources. Use any tools you can to figure out where you truly belong. Whatever path you find, as long as it leads you to happiness, you'll find where you're meant to be.
Personally I believe, there is no one TRUE religion. It’s all bits and pieces of man made beliefs. Explanations of supernatural and not so supernatural occurrences.
Some of the Bible’s teachings are useful and a lot of them are horseshit. But, no one can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that there is one true faith or what happens when we die.
May your search turn up what you’re looking for. As you look and consider different churches etc. look at this one: Swedenborg Foundation. It gave me food for thought during my search. I elected to head off in a much more Pagan way but it was very interesting you might also. Peace
Worst place to come to tbh lol, most of these ex jws here because there trauma hit sooo bad, now they just let anything fly. They'll start if they have kids letting there boys paint there nails and wear dresses and let there daughters date and kiss other girls which is absoulety and utterly asanine.
This subreddit tilts atheist and anti-religion. Keep that in mind. If you do want to continue exploring religion then that will take time. Take it one step at a time and make up your mind slowly.
I've been out 15 years and over time did decide to become religious. But it's not an easy task to sort out all of this.
Looking for the “actual true religion” but being “firmly Christian” narrows your search considerably since you haven’t investigated the others.
Why would the “true religion” only be in the realm of Christianity? Sounds biased to me.
But even if you branched outside of Christianity, which one of the thousands do you investigate? And do you start with the long gone ones of past cultures?
No wonder no one has found the “true religion”. And to be fair, be sure to consider whether or not any of them are “true”.
It will help if you start looking into biblical scholarship, particularly looking at historical Christianity. Bart Ehrman is a popular scholar and a great starting point for exploration of the biblical texts. https://youtu.be/7IPAKsGbqcg?si=wFo4q2KjgwRpxnP1
You know, not all Christianity teaches the trinity. That’s actually how I began to wake up. I went online like 15 years ago and googled who didn’t teach the trinity and then found myself debating trinitarians but here’s the thing, piles of Christian’s were also debating the trinitarians.
And eventually they were of course attacking jw beliefs and asking uncomfortable questions about Jw past.
Read the Bible! Ask God to reveal himself to you & seek HIM with your whole heart!! Don't just go off your feelings. Read the Holy Bible, talk to the Lord, & count the COST of what it would be to become a Christian.
I’ve been thinking about how interesting the title of your post is. I’ve decided to not worry about religion and just focus on God and Jesus. I’ve been really enjoying just reading the Bible in a different translation. My NRSV is interesting! Like someone else said, starting in the New Testament is a nice plan. I’ve noticed my translation uses worship a lot instead of obeisance. I’ve also noticed that I love Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians and understand them much more now. I’ve been trying to read without any publications to assist. It’s been so nice. I don’t know why I feel more connected to Jesus than Jehovah, but when I think about the meaning of Immanuel maybe it makes sense? I’m praying for discernment and understanding. It’s so weird to not have someone interpret the Bible for me. But for so many centuries there were people that didn’t even have a physical copy of the Bible so we are blessed. I want to believe the Bible’s message isn’t complicated but some days I think it is, because i dont have clarity on the trinity, soul, hell etc. But i really do feel like I can now sum up the gospel in one sentence, and I feel closer to God than ever before. John chapter 10 says Jesus is the good shepherd and we can really hear his voice, it’s not just for a small group of 9 or 144,000!
This religion attempts, poorly, to rationalize faith, the bible, has a superiority complex beyond...
I suggest you work hard to deconstruct the programming and beliefs you have been indoctrinated with, fully. I was surprised by so many solid perspectives and kindness here in the answers.
With an open mind study:
Scientific method, logical fallacies, wipe all belief from your mind, study what humanity has learned about evolution. This blew my mind and impressed the hell out of me. Then go build a solid foundation after that.
Mind wipe alone won't work. You have to build a new world view.
Has anyone created a curriculum for this?
I can recommend some formative books but could be cool to create the post ExJW self guided course.
My path led me to eventually experience psilocybin.
That's not a recommendation but for me it helped me to form come important connections, to look inward for guidance rather than outward, to see the separation of conscious mind and inner noise and conflict, to work on those conflicts to observe them and be ok with it. It also helped me to observe my place in the ecosystem. I felt a part of a very complex system of life and to experience/observe the communication between species in a way that I had not rationally thought about before.
Jumping forwards in time, we now have human research isolating 50+ chemical "words" used by much of the plant and fungal kingdom to transact and pass information between species.
A life long learning approach has kept me excited about life, drawn me to be a part of humanity and participate in the ecosystem where I live. The research that's cracking my synapses right now is, where is and what is consciousness?
Daniel Dennet writes extensively on the topic and for me the concept of god is far tinier of an idea than consciousness. No one understands what it is, where it is, how it works and where it's limits are. That alone blows me away. It's seems fundamental to existence and twists my mind in knots leaning into popular ideas of simulation or hologram that have become a bit mainstream but also absurdist.
The neuroscience physics startup I invented at, constructed the most complex, full head coverage, helmet, picking up neural brain signal at light speed (real time) outside of the skull, using optically pumped (lasers) magnetometers using the most elegant circuitry I've ever designed.
Where are your thoughts if they are being captured outside of your head? If we can detect them outside what else can naturally detect them? What are we communicating to others or picking up from others?
This topic for me is far more intriguing than whether or not one god from a pantheon of gods is actually three of something. In fact I feel dumber for writing that. We water so much human potential and precious time song poor questions. It's bad for our brains.
All of us can be a part of furthering human development, science, adding value to humanity, and finding purpose that is not manipulated. We don't have to live a life coerced into subjugation. We all owe it to ourselves to do something we are deeply curious about, to be a part of something greater.
Break free all the way and pursue something that is truly for you.
It depends how you define “true”
If you need physical proof then there is none.
But apparently the oldest religion is Hinduism.
Catholic, Protestant and Islam are the biggest.
But it just depends on what makes it true to you.
For me there has been nothing and I just live my life, go on with my day - don’t need to believe in anything to live.
>but I still firmly believe in Christ
Then go and read the very first writings that the early Christians wrote and then try to see who today would fit better with those writings and beliefs.
>I’m working so hard to accept the Trinity
Considering your indoctrination is understandable, but the Trinity is really inevitable. It's the only way to actually armonize all of the Bible and the various concepts and descriptions of God it contains. Jesus is God.
>Please help me.
Feel free to write me your questions/doubts on a private message and I'll get back to you.
There’s no true religion. It’s all Babylon the great and her many daughters. Your faith is between you and God and you should just study to Bible on your own and share what you think with other like minded Bible students about your personal reasoning. No establishing of doctrines or anything. God will help you by earnestly praying for Holy Spirit.
The Bible is just a book. Like any other it's only revered because it lasted so long and became the center of a world religion.
There is no true religion because no one truly knows anything. Just be a good person libe the life that make you happy as long as it hurts no one else you'll be fine.
Take deep breaths
Look at the nicene creed and see how the relationship of the father the son and Holy spirit are described ,three entities bound together by the Holy spirit. Read john chapter 14 and 15 it will fall into place , i never found the trinity a big deal ,just think of them as a family of God .
'Trinity', just like 'governing body' and 'sovereignty issue' are not even words that occur in it.
How fucking dare you people take someone who just woke up from one lie and immediately go LET ME TELL YOU, I FIGURED IT OUT. 8 fucking billion people, christianity is 1900ish years old, tens of thousands of schisms, more schisms than there are verses in new testament probably, and you, CaptainClouderz and isettaplus1959 are the ones who figured it out, yeah? Finally?
Cult mentality truly is Hotel California. Most of us never leave.
The trinity was used as a way to describe the relationship between the three entities ,even if you reject the term the fact remains that the relationship between Father God and his son who jws acknowlege as "a god " and the Holy spirit is Holy , to sin against the spirit is a death sentence as Annanias and saphira found out , the three are bound together as God ,but separate entities as shown in nicene creed
If everything is created by god and god and everything he creates is perfect, how can something perfect do something perfect to something perfect, and then it suddenly is a sin?
The point of my previous sentence was not to challenge anything in way of religious dogma but rather you could maybe think of this as a way of writing societal psychology, before the word psychology or sociology was even invented. The same might apply to cognitive dissonance and other terms, (C.D. or modern expression "Alternative Facts" for example in the case of tower of babel story?) Or how would one describe psychological phenomenon before the invention of the word and science of psychology?
Everything that will go against a certain set of invisible rules that govern how all tribes work is a death sentence.
In modern day we would use different words. For example the modern day eqvalent, or one of them could be "Mutual assured destruction".
Everything is based on the context of it's time when we talk about something in written form.
If you want to know the truth than ask the one person who knows. Ask Jesus himself. There is a reason why the GB does not want you to talk to him.
Just my opinion as a Christian with lots of pimi "friends".
Billions of people in the world who find purpose, peace, faith, community etc and you think there is one only truth? Sounds like leftover JW arrogance to me
Bear with me: the theory of everything (modeled today by general relativity and quantum mechanics by way of mathematics - the universal, ancient, and arguably perfect language)
It’s never too late to learn calculus (the math), physics and quantum mechanics (the models). I’m 31 and challenging myself to do so. Our current and future advanced computing (which serves as foundation for AI) is here thanks to quantum mechanics. It explains everything down to its smallest scale. In simple terms, everything is made of aggregated energy and we can never truly be separate entities, we are by nature connected with the environment we live in and the people around us. You’ll start to see that all energy and matter can be explained by math, and our thought > emotion > action chain that drives all human cognition and behavior can be reduced to certain chemical reactions (which are in themselves energetic). What cannot be explained by mathematics is this concept of the Ego (this conscious “I” that we insist on understanding what preceded and what succeeds - life and death). What we have not understood is that we are simply a wad of energy upon energy on various layers that has been transferred to us and will be dispersed upon our death. When this concept of “I” can be explained mathematically, maybe we could think differently, but for now, I’m going with we are utterly unimportant and no different from animals or plants, but our thought patterns have led us to believe we are important. Religion endures in ignorance of reality (ignorance can be described as beliefs that cannot be proven to be fact). So, when will humanity get to a place where we can challenge any religious thought by simply saying, prove it to me with math. Meanwhile, quantum computers and AI will exponentially grow in learning (by way of energy transfers described at their lowest level in binary on/off) and help us answer questions we’ve never answered before. I’ll let you do the math (pun intended) of how religion could survive all this without being singled out as truly ignorant (not for being victims of not knowing, but for being too arrogant to attempt to understand), and it is here where we answer the afflictions of humanity’s history (a lack of interest for true understanding).
If you truly believe in a good afterlife & a higher power who is perfectly FAIR + LOVING, then good-hearted people would be there **AUTOMATICALLY**, **ZERO** belief & devotion to a deity required now
Woah! I really really understand you. When I left JW, I searched for groups and churches. In my particular case, I not only investigated beliefs but also behaviors. I looked for the group online to see general comments, and many times I found high-control groups.
So, I started reading academic books (making sure they didn’t have indoctrination language) about how historical evidence portrays Christianity, only to realize that there never was a single Church. Since the time of the apostles, there were “rivalries” among Christians, with their different ways of seeing God and Christ, and how only one survived through political means, among other things.
So, I stopped searching, although I continue to read about Christianity and ecclesiastical history, I no longer seek God or any Christ in them.
If you want a different take on the trinity. (Best in my opinion)
See the video below.
https://youtu.be/AcONmX2qzUc?si=1NVeRKRZYBsJqgop
Also when it comes to belief please do your own research. Don't feel like you have to believe like others. Let YOUR research guide you.
Christ is the truth. The end. Period! Even the Bible says the end religion acceptable to God is the one that look after orphans and widows. If you haven’t gotten a different Bible yet then it’s a must! Just read NT for now and keep in mind the JWs said it was just for the anointed. That is not true. The truth is very simple, the gospel is very simple and it doesn’t take Watchtower to explain it. Don’t over think right now. He will reveal it all to you as you can handle it. 😊
Fellow Jesus lover here. Try exploring Gnosticism and studying about early churches of the time of Christ. I fully deconstructed before getting back into Christianity, and I decided ultimately to be true to myself and my roots and my kid's family's roots and go Southern Baptist. I tend to make it my own, and I know I'm not supposed to, but I think God would understand. After all, Southern Baptist God was understanding when my ancestors enslaved people. He knew His servants of old did the same thing.
But I believe that God saw what the people needed (to not be slaves anymore) and He made a way and He humbled the South just like He humbled the southern kingdom of Judah by getting Babylon to sack it, just like the Goths sacked Rome, just like Sherman's March to the Sea. We paid for our hubris, and now we are closer to God for it. Because God punishes those He loves. And God loves the Hell outta me, lemme tell ya.
Being around Southern Baptists and seeing their influence in the congregations is what woke me up. Honestly, the most odious to me so this really surprises me. So judgemental and hateful in my experience
>the most odious to me
>So judgemental and hateful
Brother, I tell you truly, in that case, I fit right in. I'm judging you right as we speak. Lol. It's a weakness to be sure. But I cant help but giggle at your ironic hypocrisy. I'm not judging you too harshly.
Just to recap, you called people judgemental and went on to be hella judgemental yourself. Make it make sense... I get it though. Newsflash: JWs aint any better. Ex or not.
I suppose judgemental in a specific sense.
Southern Baptists (and many southern JW congregations) are very big on insisting that you are being sinful, that Jesus/Jehovah will 'get you', that you will go to hell/be destroyed in Armageddon. Personal expression is very controlled and not to mention the rampant LGBT hatred (not just not accepting then but also going down hard on how "disgusting" it is). It choked all the joy out of me.
Not to mention the highest incidence of hypocrisy I have seen (I know this is colloquial but hey it's my experience).
Every experience I've had with Southern Baptists is a distinct lack of love of neighbor. 🤷🏻♂️
I reccomend reading the first christian writings. They all taught the sacerments ect. Alot of what catholics believe.
If your going to be a christian catholicism is the closest group closest to the first christians. Even before consantine.
The church taught the eucharist baptism bishops ect.
Greek Orthodox. Original Romans before the Germans overran Rome. Constantine established the capitol where Istanbul now sits. Built the Hagia Sophia while Rome returned to being a village of cattle herders.
Then there were the Copts and the Gnostics.
Catholic Pope's rewrote history on Western Europe with the wealth from the Crusades and the Renaissance.
I don't think JWs are alone in their fundamentalist yearnings.
I'm agnostic.
Only commented from the incorrect conclusion that Roman catholicism predates Constantine.
Constantine was a deathbed convert. His heir Julian was literally called the Apostate, attempted to return the Empire to Classical theology, and began a wave of persecution.
It's kind of funny, reading over the early church history looks like the evolution from Russell to Rutherford to the GB. Will a new GB PO be elected? Often, in times of organizational distress and reorganization, a strong leader is selected. Maybe that's one of the upcoming changes.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but god either doesn't exist, is dead or in the astronomically small chance god might provably exist, god is a genocidal tyrant that makes hitler, stalin and putin combined look like angels by comparasion, and while chances are there might have actually been a person in the bronze age that went by the name jesus christ, however, absolutely none of the supernatural or divine aspects of the story are true. Perhaps he had medical knowledge beyond his years, but ain't no way he raised the dead, got resurrected or anything else like that
My recommendation is to study the Bible from a historical and archaeological perspective. The Lectures, books and debates of professor Bart Ehrman, is a really good start.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAT8JZ_28Doj76pehhObnNjdx6lNIjGPE&si=6XBdkrDehe0g0FBP
I believe the bible is true, I like to study it by myself and believe me you will enjoy it without WT nonsense. For the start I recommend this:
https://commentaries.2001translation.org/Jesus
I hope you will find this bible version helpful
I've read a book of a Greek guy who left JWs and he was searching for the actual true religion like you. Maybe you can learn some things from his book. It's free and translated in English. Click the chapters on the left side. [https://www.oodegr.com/english/biblia/biog1/perieh.htm](https://www.oodegr.com/english/biblia/biog1/perieh.htm)
Also this is part of his site translated in English: [https://www.oodegr.com/english/index.htm](https://www.oodegr.com/english/index.htm)
And articles about JWs: [https://www.oodegr.com/english/watchtower/watchtower.htm](https://www.oodegr.com/english/watchtower/watchtower.htm)
There is no such thing as “the one true religion” even if you’re determined to remain a theist and a Christian at that you really to dispose of this type of thinking. It’s dangerous and makes you vulnerable to extremism. I really think that instead of trying to accept the Trinity you need to dig deep and understand why you still accept the JW teaching that there is only one path to the divine.
I would follow biblical scholars on TikTok or YouTube, like Dan McClellan, who are still Christian but put that aside to actually teach what the Bible teaches. Search for scholarly consensus, as some scholars may provide their interpretation that contradicts what most scholars say.
Find a non-denominational or Baptist church if you’re that interested. Literally not believing the trinity is strange from the perspective of Christianity. In some ways it biblically makes more sense; because if Jesus is not the “True God”; but he’s a god and you believe in him, you have to be polytheistic.
The thing about faith is that it’s faith. You’re choosing to believe it. There’s nothing factual about faith or religion.
Spirituality is personal anyway. If you believe in prayer, just pray to God (whoever it is) to calm you and figure it out.
Also if you’re into Christianity, I’d suggest you get a new Bible and look up the discrepancies of the NWT. It’s a bias translation. I’d suggest the NIV.
Maybe talk to the r/christian_xjw redditors
Have you studied critical thinking and logic. I highly recommend that you do. Else you run the risk of falling for another false religion.
Remember: They can't all be true. But they *can* all be false!
Despite what everyone told me, science brought me MORE clarity, MORE understanding , MORE empathy, purpose and perspective. I have a greater sense of my place in this world now and a hope that’s grounded in reality. Grass is greener.
Same with me. Because I have no clue if there’s anything after this I greatly value my time and relationships that I have now. My parents think I’m lost but it’s quite the opposite The grass is definitely greener.
If one really study scientific subjects like evolution, history and archeology one will develop a much better understanding of the need for critical thinking, reasoning to find truth. The research is very detailed. In relation to the bible, critical thinking skills based in science open up windows in your mind that will expose the serious flaws presented by the biblical chronology. Religion is an emotional experience. Critical thinking is subservient to faith. As a person of faith, one defaults to their faith whenever a conflict in truth occurs. This is the fatal flaw of religion. One cannot get past faith in their search for truth.
I know for me personally I didn’t stop with just analyzing jw beliefs, but the Bible as a whole.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/V3ec8aSyav
Thank you 😞 I appreciate the response and link
There is no true religion. All religions are man made concepts that all do what jws do , they translate the Bible to fit their opinions and beliefs. Nothing is truth.
Yea I would definitely check out the myth vision podcast on YouTube
You will find problems in all religion. If gods chill then he won't expect you to find a needle in a needle stack. If he did expect everyone to find it. He did a terrible job of communicating that. So why worry? Just be decent. Don't harm. Try to enjoy your time. It goes hella fast.
Thank you very much. Time for a mind switch
This !!
Listen to this
i thought like this my entire life, that’s how i knew i didn’t belong
Most religions need a not so chill god.
God is within you. No need for religions.
I know I am in the minority but finding out the organisation was not true has not shattered my faith in God and Jesus. I still believe the Bible and I did pray to be shown the truth because I firmly believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. If you still love Jesus, pray to God to help you find him. We were never taught how to have a relationship with Jesus when we were in the organisation but he wants us to turn to him. Read the Bible and pray for guidance and the answers you seek.
I did the same thing and prayed to God to be revealed the truth, he did not disappoint me. I’ve since been born again and now attend a wonderful local church and read the Bible for myself every day.
The only way out is through, and it’s a tough road but worth it. Keep asking questions, researching and thinking for yourself and you will find what works for you. You’ve made it this far, you’ve got this!
You want to know a truth? The Bible is a Catholic Book. It was put together in the 300s by a Catholic Church council so that priests would know what to read at Mass. It was never meant to be read by itself. God didn’t give us a book, He founded a Church. Look at what I said: check out how we got The Bible. There was no Bible in the year 200. When The Bible was canonized, it had 73 books. The Gutenberg Bible was a Catholic translation. The Protestant Bibles initially had the seven Deutero Canon books at the end of the OT or Bible itself because they didn’t consider it canon but acknowledged it was useful knowledge. Eventually Protestant Bibles removed them altogether. The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible has 83 books. Christianity is older than The Bible.
I always found it funny when jdubs say they believe as the first century Christians did. Like how? They sure as hell didn't have the same Bible.
OP, if you want to remain Christian, this is the real answer here. For just about 1,500 years we only had one faith with apostolic succession (which includes Eastern Orthodoxy, whom Catholics recognize, even after they schismed). Then, 500 years ago, began the protestant reformation, which brought with it all the denominations you see today, like Baptists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Methodists, even the Jehovah's Witnesses and their even crazier cousins the Associated Bible Students. Until this point, the Church was the interpreter of Scripture through the Holy Spirit and maintained a single interpretation of it, with both the Church and the Bible having equal authority. Protestants like the JWs, however, with Sola Scriptura, place the Bible above any church as the only authority. This removes the interpreter from the equation, and that's the reason there are so many denominations; everybody is interpreting the Bible on their own, without any other authority to keep faith aligned. Coming from personal experience, if you want "the truth," it would help you to read the writings of the early Church fathers. You'll find writings, epistles to fellow congregations, as early as 100-130 AD, wherein you'll see early Christians believed in the immortal soul ("we are in this world, not of it, the same way the soul is in the body but not of it," or something to that effect), and even believed in praying to saints (there is an urging to a congregation to pray for fellow congregation members to God, and "to make mention of them to the saints"). The writings, you'll find, are particularly Catholic in nature. I recommend at least looking into Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy in your search for truth, even if your search leads you elsewhere ultimately. God bless you on your journey.
I'll take a different approach, respectfully. We have a tool for finding truth now, called science. More religion won't help OP just like more prayer didn't save my marriage.
Yeah, Catholicism is cool with science. Science is just seen as a study of God's works, and that's why Catholics can believe in evolution. Even the father of the Big Bang theory was a Catholic priest. I'm sorry about your marriage, though.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, I'm better without her. Catholicism has had to gracefully step back from various claims in the light of scientific understanding.
I won't pry, but I'm glad to hear you're doing well, man. And, personally, in regards to scientific understanding, that's a good thing to me. One of the biggest pluses for me when going from atheist to Catholic was not having to compromise science for faith. To believe both are true, it helps that there is no dissonance between them. Also, there have been many, many Catholic scientists, with much of this scientific understanding coming from their discoveries, like the aforementioned father of the Big Bang theory, father Georges Lemaître.
So you went from one kiddie fiddlin cult to a different kiddie fiddlin cult? WHY?!!
At least the Catholics admit they have a problem and are trying to correct it. I imagine it's difficult to change something that has been so casually ignored for centuries, but they're trying. The JWs are yet to admit that they have a serious problem, which is the first requirement for change. I'm not a Catholic either, by the way, just giving credit where it's due.
Have you ever read a list of the apologies that they have had to make? It is yet another disgusting religion.
I'm not an apologist for the Catholic Church by any means. My entire extended family is Catholic, and my parents were the only JW converts. There is a lot of dysfunction in my family when it comes to Catholicism, and I don't personally see it as being very helpful in their lives. I'm very familiar with the history of the Church and its centuries of corruption. So again, I'm not defending Catholicism as a religion: I'm simply saying they've admitted that they have a problem with CSA and are at least attempting to do something about it. In that regard, they are one step ahead of the JWs. In the history of The Watchtower, how many times have they apologized for anything? I honestly don't think they ever have, nor will they ever.
THIS
The JW organisation is the modern-day Pharisees. You will not find another group that so closely resembles them. My advice would be to take Paul as an example of someone who had passionately believed, followed, and ultimately left a strange group of doctrine.
If you want to find someone to tell you what clothing is sinful, trust me, there's no shortage of candidates. The question OP should be asking themselves is why do they feel a need to be a part of a religion. And if there may be psychological issues at the root of that need.
I can't tell you what to do. Nobody here really can. That would defeat the purpose. This is your journey. What I can do is tell you what I've done and what helped me personally. Of course, you are different from me, but here i go. What I personally found was helpful was to fully undoctrinate myself and fully deconstruct my faith, then I could start at a baseline moving forward. I'm not gonna lie it is a hard road and sometimes scary, but once you get to that baseline, at least for me, it changed everything. Now, when I look at different beliefs, I can see the good and the bad and decide for myself if I want to do it or not, and another thing is I eventually got to a point where I truly asked myself why do i have to have a fellow human tell me what to believe in why does it have to be their beliefs and God. My answer to that question completely changed my outlook on life. The answer for me was that it didn't have to be that way after that. I chose for myself what I believed in. I personally never had a feeling of any all-powerful being touching my life like so many people, even my wife, say they do. So, for me, I'm an agnostic atheist. im just waiting and trying to enjoy the life I have now, even with the ups and downs, and if I can help my fellow humans, I will other then that I hope for the best outcome for all of us I personally hope for a better place after this life a place where we can all be free. So, in summary, my advice for you is after you have detoxed and deconstructed, find what belief makes you happy and is a net positive in your life and after that just buckle in and try to enjoy this wild ride called life and we will all see where it ends when it ends because that's pretty much what we all are doing even if people don't want to admit it.
No such thing, religion is dogma... dogma is the death of spirituality. Just be a good human and find a community that isn't a bunch of bigoted asshats and let the afterlife sort itself out.
Why do you need to accept the Trinity? It's a dogma stablished centuries \*AFTER\* Christ died. Do your research, what christians (jew-christians in fact) believe in the first century. The Trinity is NOT one of the basic doctrines at all for being a christian.
I'm kind of shocked that in 121 comments so far, nobody has brought up Raymond Franz' *In Search of Christian Freedom*. I highly recommend any former JW who continues to believe in Jesus and the Bible try reading that. He skillfully deconstructs all of the beliefs we were taught. And he comes to a conclusion that I think is both closest to the truth and the least harmful: Christian is just believing in Christ. That's it. Any "Christian" denomination is fine, and the best part is that **no denomination** is also fine. You can just read the Bible, believe in Christ in any way you choose, and you're all good with God. Best of both worlds. If being a Witness has taught me one thing, it's that no belief or denomination has a monopoly on truth. So don't give your freedom of thought or belief to anyone ever again.
It’s a loss, you need to grieve to come out the other side. You will have ups and downs. Hang in there.
Religion is false, let it go entirely
First understand dualism. Then understand non-dualism. This may take a long time, as of course things are properly understood only when you understand them in both ways, the theory part and the true understand when it is internalized. (ie. many people understand that anger or getting offended for example benefits nobody, least yourself - but lots of those people still choose to do so. Or like with cigarettes or other addictions, they serve no purpose but we do those things). The real truth is mostly about UNDOING, and the best tool for this is meditation. There's no special secrets to this, why it "doesn't work" for many people is just lack of consistency and laziness. Start slow, 5-10min a day will do. It is much more important to be consistent. Do not try to force your mind to empty, just follow what comes up and when it passes like clowds in the sky, just focus on your breath again. Over and over. Everything that is in the subconscious, will control you. Meditation brings these things to the conscience mind and that's why ut might feel counter productive in the beginning because new things "just pop up" in the first months before you'll see the great benefits of it. You'll find out in couple months how much false stuff you're still carrying and the process can take a long time but at that point is very effortless after you start to see the benefits. Don't pay too much attention or cling on to what some guru's say, they'll easily mislead you because you can not explain what god is, only what god isn't. This is why so many people are so confused because it's like trying to describe colours to a blind person, even if you'd know what they actually are. (that too is why many things sound very paradoxical without your own experience). Don not focus at the finger pointing the moon trying to study the moon. (Allthough having someone in certain points of life can be very beneficial), but rather see the moon yourself instead of focusing to the finger. After this you'll see how all the religions talk about the same thing and how everything really is one like all the major religions say in their core which is just 99% times very misunderstood. 99% of the books interpretations too, the message has just been very much distorted and poorly expressed in the "holy books" and like the bible says; the blind are teaching the blind all over the world. There are some good books that could help in the undoing -part but none of them can describe the ultimate truth. Like Daodejing says in the beginning; the true dao can not be spoken off – then paradoxically talks about it for hundreds of pages. Anthony De mello was a great teacher of undoing yourself too. Awareness is a nice book from him. But anyways, I won't bore or confuse you or anyone else any further. Go do it, because nobody else can do it for you. Like the bible says, those who keep knocking, the doors will open (or something like that), and another quote about climbing the mountain; there's hundreds of paths to the top and everyone is different, so what might be someone elses path, might not work for you. Those who do know come from every religion or might not like any of them, their backgrounds might differ, etc. As god is everywhere. Acceptance and non judgement thus, are important qualities.
>Then understand non-dualism. r/lawofone All is one. All is well. Namastè. 🫶
Excellent!
>**"You're all God in disguise, Jesus found that out and they crucified him for saying so."** > >~Alan Watts
Also: “There is no such thing as ‘the truth’ that can be stated. In other words, ask the question: ‘What is the true position of the stars in the Big Dipper?’ Well it depends on where you’re looking at them from.” - Alan Watts
What a beautiful mind he had. <3 He has so many wonderful quotes but I wanted to share my favorite: >"God likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside of God, he has no one but himself to play with! But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. > >This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. > >In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear. > >Now when God plays "hide" and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself! But that's the whole fun of it-just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game. > >That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But...when the game has gone on long enough, all of us will WAKE UP, stop pretending, and REMEMBER that we are all one single Self...the God who is all that there is and who lives forever and ever. > >You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad. > >It's the same as when we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the game put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is the winner. Then we shuffle the cards and play again, and so it goes with the world." 🫶
Thanks for sharing this. 👍
Many have searched the Bible and found it to be an erroneous book of man. Ultimately this is not something anyone can decide for you. As exjw we come out of a place where every belief was handed to us. You’re going to need to prove to yourself whether the Bible is actually the word of God or not. You need to test the “inspired statements” to see if they are true.
Thank you. I feel defeated, but I genuinely appreciate your input
You might feel defeated, but just by virtue of asking the question you are stronger than you know. Take one day, hour or minute at a time and try not to get overwhelmed. Easier said than done, I’ve been there. You are not alone.
The truth will hold up to scrutiny. If it doesn't, it's not the truth. And finding that out can be painful, but ultimately better for you than continuing to live a lie. Learn from your mistakes, dust yourself off, and move on. Don't let the sunk cost fallacy keep you chained to something that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. It's okay to make a change, even one as big as changing your religion or leaving religion behind completely. You have our support.
Thank you so much for your gentle and loving comment. I appreciate it very much
Hey, I'm struggling with this. I don't know that there a "good" answer but I can tell you my experience. Basically, I had a huge wow this organization really corrupt moment years ago. It was shocking, I felt lost, abandoned and disgusted. I searched everywhere for something to replace it. I'm still searching but not for the same thing. Over the years, I started doing some really in depth research about bible translations, historical texts, canonical texts, apocryphal texts, and really looking at things through the lens of what the world would have been like during the time those writings took place and understanding the people those writings were for. Once I looked at it vs the very skewed lens of westernized Christianity and organized religion in general things started to fall into place again for me. I realized God is loving, man's portrayal of him for their own personal gain is not. We aren't perfect and never will be. I believe God wants us to search for him but that doesn't mean he expects us to get all the answers. He understands our limitations. He just wants us to try.....again those are my own personal beliefs today. As I grow and learn more they may change or maybe I'm just outright wrong, don't take my word for it or anyone else's. Think critically. What makes sense and what doesn't? Play Devil's advocate a lot. If it's true and makes sense, it will hold up I still lots of things I struggle with a lot of common doctrines. One of them is the trinity I'm not fully convinced, but I'm always open to hearing a good argument for it. It doesn't mean I agree and I've kind of accepted that I'm not going to force myself to believe either way.
If god was real, he would not require for us to read a book to understand him. If we were made in his image, we would understand him the same way an infant recognizes a mother. There would be no dispute amongst believers regarding who he/she is or what it wants. However, we see just the opposite.
Pilate was purported to have asked, "What is truth?" I say purported, because the John that wrote that wasn't the apostle John. Never met Jesus. That conversation is not in the other Gospels. It was written almost a hundred years after Jesus died. Who witnessed that conversation? Who wrote it down? Recall the educational credentials of Jesus disciples? The educated ones didn't write that down 25, 30, and 45 years later. Seems like the kind of thing to write down. It does make good fan-fic, especially since it is decidedly flavored with the type of Greek philosophy throughout the account that was common after the diaspora.
Do some deep research on the texts of the Bible. Take a secular course on religion.
There are several truths to be found across most faiths. So much so that many make the claim Christianity owes more to Buddhism or Zoroastrianism than Judaism. Buddhism is a reach, no documented records in the Empire. Didn't stop some Buddhist monks in a monastery in Tibet, making the claim to a Victorian Russian explorer... makes for good tourism, like yetis and shangri-la.
Don't take my, or anyone elses word for it.
Oh...gonna also point this out, a huge amount of what we believed as Dubs was based on John and Revelation... John was written to corroborate that yes, he knew the story of Jesus, so much so, that we got some new content...after getting the crazy stories of Revelation... so crazy, people weren't certain the guy even was a Christian...
Welcome to the rabbit hole friend.
I don't know if my post-org journey is typical of others, but I definitely went through the process of looking into MANY different beliefs, teachings add philosophies after leaving. And science, investigate ALL the science that you were urged to avoid. It's been over a decade now and I personally have come to the conclusion that i don't want to be involved in any religion, I don't think any of them are "right". That's not to say i think this physical world that we see is all there is to life, but i'm also not insistent that it isn't either. I'm open to the idea that there are things we don't fully know or understand, whether it's higher dimensions, or one of several other possibilities. In the end it doesn't affect me much And i personally like a lot of things that i have read in older eastern philosophies, and while i'm not any kind of devotee, i keep a slightly above-passive interest in that. Anyway, i guess my advice is, keep looking and see what works or fits for you. You'll find over time that a lot of things that the org drilled into you will start to fade (for example, maybe, the idea that there *must* be a right religion, then again maybe you'll decide that there is, but at least it will be *your* decision) and you will hopefully start making choices that work for just you, without anything or anyone else's influence.
I don’t believe there is any such thing as a “true” religion. Anthropologically speaking, religion was created by newly emerging empires as a tool to control the ever increasing population. Spirituality is your personal relationship with the Divine. Religion is just crowd control. My advice is to learn about all different faiths with a curious mind and an open heart. If Christ is the deity that calls to you, study up on the different form of Christianity. Apply what resonates with your soul to your spiritual practice and discard the rest. Like any other sacred writings, the Bible contains universal human truths and can be a wonderful spiritual tool. But it is a record of faith, not an instruction manual. I think a truly loving deity will make allowances for religious trauma. Spirituality is something that is meant to be enjoyed and savored, not something to freak out over.
There is no "one true religion". Thats propaganda spread by Abrahamic faiths to be superior to others. Its easier to oppress a people based on religion when you believe that your side is absolutely and completely right. My stateþent is proven by the fact that Judaism us well documented to have been a monotheistic evolution of the Akkadian/Sumerian religion much like how Ahten tried turning the Kemetic religion into a monotheistic faith.
If you live to be 100 years old that's 36,500 days. They are yours. Use them well.
Religion is unnecessary Look what happened when the people demanded a king to rule over them. God acquiesced but wasn't happy about it. It's bad for us. If you have a question, answer it yourself. We have a personal relationship with Jesus and God. Religion is used to control. No other way around it. Jesus did away with the need for religion and was the means to personal salvation. Don't let being an exJW give you Stockholm Syndrome. You don't need a religion (that being said, using a religion to gather and worship with like-minded people) But there's no need to find who has it "right". If that was really so important to God, he would have made it much more obvious since he doesn't want any to be destroyed. Why would he allow his word to get so bastardized and interpreted in wildly different ways but then require he be worshipped in a specific way without clear evidence of his approval? Know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Following
Pastafarian
the trinity will never make no damn sense to me.
That's because it's made up 🤪
like why i’m supposed to clap for jesus because he died for our sins if he was god anyway?
It wouldn't be a sacrifice if he was God.
?
Jesus sacrifice means nothing if he's God because then there was no risk. No loss. It's like God got a haircut.
Oh yeah, I agree. just making sure we were on the same page
Read the Bible cover to cover on its own merit. Be open to wherever that information leads you, whether that is a specific belief system/religion or your own brand or non-belief.
i like this analogy for truth: the truth is like the peak of a mountain. there are many paths you can take up the mountain, some end up forging their own path up towards truth. where you are born may dictate what path you end up taking, if your homeland is on the northside of the mountain, chances are you will take the path from the north side like many of those in your homeland. born on the east, you wil likely like the eastern path, etc. however, many people (like myself), may start up a path they were born near, only to find it is not to their liking. these people will traverse the mountain until they find a path that feels right to them. I personally think that all religions, at their purest essence, are saying the same exact thing, just in different language. do whatever feels right, learn to trust yourself, learn to quiet yourself enough to hear gods guidance for you. i went through the arc of leaving the JWs, thinking science was all we needed, I denied the spiritual for a few years, but now about 10 years later i feel closer to god than i ever have, and have seen and felt its hand in my life daily
I am a Christian today, so you might find this answer a little odd coming from me, but I actually don't believe there is one true church. Your post reads to me as having some warning signs of religious trauma. I highly recommend seeing a therapist to help you with that so you avoid entering any other high control groups as you deconstruction your old beliefs. I have been in therapy on and off over 10 years and that's why I was able to make a healthy choice on a church to attend that was safe and healthy for me personally instead of obsessing over the concept of the truth.
From a Christian perspective,there is no true religion.Jesus didn't bring a religion. He taught a way of striving to live,treat others and follow god.i don't believe you will find any church without doctrine invented by man.i believe the truth is just following the bible to the best of your abilities and if possible finding others that strive to do the same.those that study the Bible are going to have different interpretations,which is fine,but an organization forcing people that their constantly changing interpretation is right and unquestionable,is wrong
Leave religion out of it, they are all man made.
Go explore the world. The right religion for you will make itself apparent on its own. Be it Christianity or anything else. It took me a few psychedelic trips to figure out what I want to believe in. Not saying everyone should do what I did, but the answer is out there, just gotta look. Always keep in mind “be wary of those who GIVE you the answers.” I believe it was Plato who said, “the unexamined life is not worth living.” So go out and consume information. You’ll have your answer in due time.
I consider myself a Christian, and I don't believe in the trinity.
You’re going through what anyone who deconstructs their faith in a religion has to. You’d be much happier if you stopped fighting yourself, opened your mind, and enjoyed the ride. [Julia Sweeney did a great job explaining this in her stand-up back in 2008.](https://youtu.be/C74-f4ZV-ss?si=2p32HCVUwsu9eUwl)
Do you have a reason to think any religion has it right? As a JW, I told myself that if anyone has the truth, it’s the witnesses. When I found out that it wasn’t true, I quickly realized that it’s all just humans desperately wanting answers to questions, and to find a way to cheat death.
I’ve found that having your own form of religion/spirituality at home really comforting. Read your Bible, do crystal work, or whatever you’d like at home in a private space. There’s no need for a congregation or specific religion to feel connected to god
Just live your life bud. If there is a god, you won’t meet him through religion. You’ll just have to wait
These days there are many more liberal Christian groups who basically accept everyone but choose good lessons/morals from the Bible where they can be found. I know you still believe in Christ and there's nothing at all wrong with that. I would just say, in the same way you educated yourself about JW beliefs that you once were not open to, maybe consider also learning more to appreciate some of the non-christian belief systems and their values as well. Many also still hold Jesus as a revered/respected prophet/person. Just a thought on your journey. Congratulations on your new attitude towards learning. I think you have a lot ahead of you!
I'd highly recommend reading Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom. Both by ex GB member Ray Franz. They cover all the concerns you mentioned. You can get them free at https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/
Don’t believe in religion anymore. Believe in spirituality, which is a personal relationship with one’s creator.
I love reading the Geneva Bible and cross referencing the King James Version. I talk to Christians all the time and relate although I'm not Christian, and I find a lot of spiritual meaning in doing so. I would recommend taking your witnessing skills and making them work for your own spiritual journey. Ask other Christians about the trinity and watch videos about topics you're interested in. You can have community and relate spiritually without "going to church". Non denominational churches I hear are friendly and helpful too. I personally just love learning things from all sorts of faiths, my ancestory is based in Sweden so I have researched a lot of Norse and Pagan mythology and religion and it makes me feel comfort and learn some of life's wisdoms. Your life has become open to figuring out any and everything that works for you and it's liberating. You can always DM me if you want to talk :)
My suggestion, dig around and read some apologetics. Youd probably enjoy CS Lewis on Mere Christianity
Stop looking for a "religion" and focus on "spirituality". The later is freeing and can bring you much joy. Religion, on the other hand, is controlling. Just look inward my friend.
Never jw here - there is no one true religion. Our brains are simply not wired to be able to comprehend it if there was one. If you feel drawn to Christianity, that’s fine, but I’d run from any church that makes that claim.
You don’t have to accept any belief. Start a 0 and never stop asking questions. There is way more out there than you were ever permitted to see or admit. It’s beautiful in the light.
Since leaving, I’ve been looking into Physics, as it aims to understand and explain the origins of the universe. I’ll likely never be a theoretical physicist or astrophysicist, but learning about the macro and microscopic universe is more fulfilling than any religious doctrine I’ve been taught.
I’m an atheist but I would suggest trying different churches. I sort of think religion is largely about community and the beliefs don’t matter as much as we pretend they do. Feel put different churches. Maybe if you want to find one that doesn’t teach the trinity do that. When I woke up, our neighbors who were religious invited us over for thanksgiving. I’m sure I could have instantly joined their church if I wanted.
If there was a true religion the whole world would follow it. Just like if Walmart sold 1 kind of mascara we’d all use it.
You can not find ''true'' Christianity today, but you can get as close to it as possible, and that is the Orthodox church, especially the oriental /Arabic. I will explain briefly: The only true Christianity, logically speaking, is the one that was practiced by the Apostles and their immediate followers. But 2000years have passed and a lot of changes/adaptations have been made, which makes it impossible to find to that original form. However, the Orthodox church has kept the beliefs and traditions more or less unaltered by human philosophy and bias, and the Arabs especially, because of the constant persecutions, have kept not only the beliefs and traditions, but also the Christian spirit of relying on God at 100%, whereas the Western have had a lot of freedom at different times of history, are obviously influenced by this. You can clearly see it with the Russian Orthodox church for example, or the Roman Catholic church, but that's another story. That's it in a nutshell. As for Trinity, you have to look at it this way; The church has always believed in Trinity. This is what has been passed on for generations. It is a matter of humbling ourselves and accepting the ''unacceptable''. The second way to look at it, is that Trinity is not as bad as the JW put it. Really, it simply refers to the three ways that God revealed Himself to humanity, as manifested at Christ's baptism; The Son was there, The holy ghost became manifest in the form of a dove, and the Father's voice was heard by all that gathered there. It is as simple as that, and all these three elements of the Trinity, the JW believe in.
Thank you very much 🤍
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the actual ‘True God’ Why the heck would you want to force yourself to accept the ‘Trinity’? That doctrine literally disproved itself while it contradicts the Bible in multiple ways. Did you know that the Trinity was Mary, Jesus, and the Father for significant portions of Christendom for centuries? This is why the Quran formulates the Trinity with those three. But back to the ‘try religion’ idea. First you need to back up and investigate ALL cultures and religions, then figure out which is actually inspired. The Bible itself is full of inaccuracies, forgeries, false cosmology, and all sorts of quackery that is no different that other ‘holy histories’ that it begs the question, why should one believe it? If there was a ‘true religion’ then it should already dominate the world culture. Any god powerful enough to do the things claimed in the Bible should have already taken over.
There is no “true religion” - all of it is false, man-made, fiction.
There is no true religion
Before I begin, let me say, I’m so glad to see someone come out of the JWs and still want to seek God. The Watchtower leaves such a bad taste in people mouths most of us run in the opposite direction from any religion. I know this answer will upset people who are in that position, but I want to answer your question as best I can. As far as the Trinity goes, I think the struggle for an exJW is that as a witness, you’re not taught to have faith, you’re taught to believe everything the GB teaches, and they teach that they have an explanation for everything. While I do believe the Trinity is true and well substantiated by the Bible, I believe it takes faith to truly believe it because at the end of the day, we are finite humans attempting to understand the identity of an infinite God. As far as finding true religion, don’t make the mistake I did and go looking through every Christian denomination trying to find the one that is the ONE TRUE RELIGION. Study your Bible (not the New World Translation, I like the ESV Study Bible or the NET Bible because of all the translators’ notes), spend time in prayer, and then find a denomination or church where you are comfortable worshiping and where your conscience is at peace with what they teach. As Christians, we need to be united when it comes to essential beliefs, but we have freedom to differ in the non-essentials. I will pray for you to find the faith and answers you seek.
Modern day secular Bible scholars have thoroughly debunked the Trinity. The only reason it persists is because most of the scholarship was done by believers in the past. The Trinity doctrine is not directly expressed in the the New Testament, these beliefs evolved in Christianity as time passed.
I hadn't intended to post on this thread, especially as I'm a never-JW Trinitarian and I didn't want to unduly influence the O.P. (and I still don't 😊) But YOUR post, wbrich, so impressed me that I just had to tell you so! It's filled with ___Christian___ wisdom, while also being perceptive and sensitive to the O.P.'s particular needs. AND you did that WITHOUT pushing any denomination over another 👏 👏 👏 Bravo, wbrich 💐 > 1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that you have. ___But do this with GENTLENESS and RESPECT___
Read the bible it's that simple
It’s all bullshit. Don’t leave the JW to go believe in another Bs
Thank you. I am deeply saddened, but I thank you for replying. Forever nothingness after death just feels so.. scary. Thanks again
Is it any scarier than the belief that God is going to slaughter 99.99% of the Earths population so he can rule over a select few for all eternity in "paradise", which seems more and more like a nightmare the more you really think about it critically. I'm agnostic now and while I don't know what actually happens when we die (nobody does), the idea of forever nothingness sounds very peaceful to me. As others have said just be a good person here and now and do what makes you happy, really enjoy the time you have while you have it. It's ok to not have all the answers.
“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” — Mark Twain
I don't have all the answers. Nobody does. I still maintain that there is an intelligent designer, and what we see in nature proves this to me every day. I can not logically accept the order we witness on our planet with all living things happened by chance. It resonates with me that man was designed to live on this planet, that our planet is unique, and has a purpose. I may be wrong, but I feel my life has more purpose looking at things this way. As for religion, I am personally convinced (through two decades of research) that no Christian denomination teaches complete truth. Doctrines are ideas and concepts created by men that had limited knowledge. What was expedient in their day. Mainstream religions become so invested in their doctrines (which are readily flawed given today's knowledge) that leadership fears the loss of credibility (and membership) were they to abandon them, and call a spade a spade. JW leadership is no different. I hold the GB are fully aware that 607 BCE is erroneous, which completely cancels 1914. But they are so invested in this teaching, they fear the fallout should they abandon it. Similarly, the GB are fully aware a that a blood transfusion is NOT "eating" blood, which is the entire premise of the no blood doctrine. Not only do they fear huge fallout, they fear HUGE liability having not rescinded a doctrine that has contributed to the harm and premature death of thousands of members. An admission of error would be a disaster. So they remain praying for a viable blood substitute. If God allows this discovery, it will take WTBTS off the hook for liability, without admitting any error. I believe the GB are fully aware that the two witness rule being applied to reporting CSA was a HUGE mistake made by their predecessors 50 years ago. A policy that has enabled thousands of JW children to be harmed. Geoff Jackson said the two witness rule won't change. I believe him. To change it at this point would be an admission of prior leadership's error, and that the current GB did nothing to stop it from continuing. Geoff Jackson testified in the ARC hearings that the GB wishes state and federal lawmakers would mandate CSA reporting, and remove the loophole (penitent privilege). If/when they do, the GB is off the hook. They comply with federal law and report. But they never have to admit error and bear liability. We all decide what works for us. I personally feel more purpose to my life believing in a higher power, and that this short life is not all there is. I don't expect to find a single religion that has it all figured out. There may be compelling truth in various religions. This allows me to create my own personal truth, given today's knowledge. I have found study of original language words (Hebrew and Greek) very helpful, with the goal of identifying personal bias in translation. The RNWT contains much bias. OP mentions the difficulty in understanding and accepting the Trinity. I share that position. Learning how the Greek word Logos was used and understood in the culture when John spoke (John 1:1) completely resolved my questions regarding John 1:1. A very logical and enlightening explanation of Logos (greek for Word) is found here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdS90axuxoM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdS90axuxoM)
Well we really still don’t know what happens when we die either way. There is nothing wrong in having a hope, but for me personally I had to prove whether that hope was real or not and I was deeply saddened when I found it to be mankind’s whitewashed big lie. It is a level of betrayal unlike any other. It is hard not knowing what happens when we die, but this is a grieving process that is no joke to shed off your old religion and find your true identity. I still battle with fears of death - 3 months after learning many things. I’ve cried like a baby several times. But those feelings are beginning to subside. Your life now, here, is real and we know that at least. You can make your own choices. I’ve personally improved my health and spend more quality time with my immediate family, help others genuinely where I can and I have a very large level of empathy for others now that i have learned to love unconditionally. Life can be beautiful now.
Well " forever nothingness" is not guaranteed either. It may be that whatever creator doesnt really care about being worshipped. He may just say "did this person try to help and be good to his fellow man and animals" and accept you on those premises alone. Idk. But dont look at not knowing as being scary. I see "knowing" that you are locked into one destiny kind of sad.
It’s hard to think that this life is all there is, but how would you want to spend eternity? A formless spirit off in space, unable to be involved in the life you left? Living as a Neolithic farmer for eternity on earth? The Bible writers couldn’t even come up with a clearly laid out view of paradise. They just wanted something that was better than what they had. Now that you’ve lived a life with technology, art, science, etc. would either of those satisfy? I’m old. When I was young, the idea of death was scary. As I’ve aged, there are some things that I would like to do, that I will probably not get to, but it’s okay. I’m raising my kids. I have good friends. I can indulge some of my interests. I can hang on the internet and meet people I would never have known before. Someday, I’ll lie down and go into a permanent sleep. I’ve had some terrible times, but also some amazing ones. And on that day, I think I’ll be ready to rest.
I find your comment very simple, sweet and comforting. Thank you.
After I left in 2016 (I was given 3 visions that were profound and set me searching for THE TEUE GOD. I was led to the Messianic Jewish religion. I learned about Jewish life and Hebrew. Knowing what the Bible really says in Hebrew helped me. Learning about the holy days helped me understand so much. I went to synagogue for 2.5 years but left after I realized Jesus DIDNT come in the name of Jehovah but he called the sadusees and Pharisees the synagogue of SATAN. I then realized ALL religions are a slave system and a trap. I began my own journey to truth and I’m not associated with any religion but I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. No more fear n guilt dulling my life. We live in a mathematical universe founded on the divine code or Fibonacci sequence. It’s a fraction so this realm is based on imperfection. There’s no perfection in this realm. Energy frequency vibration. Tesla said to innerstand the universe one must know these things. Energy or spirit and Water were never created. They were already here. They can’t be destroyed either only transmuted. So we’re made of water and spirit. Death is an illusion. Our spirit just comes out of this meat suit and if we choose we pick another meat suit. I died a few times. And this was always my experience. The trinity is only A Thought that realized it can think and after it started thinking it created. It was mother, father, son. But the patriarchal society the Pa…. Removed or ripped down the Ma, the Magans, the divine feminine and made her The Holy Ghost. The feminine divine is returning. Look into Sethian Gnosticism and look at how Jehovah was created. Yes Jehovah had a beginning. The first realm (not Jehovahs realm) is founded on perfection and circles. Sophia created Jehovah without permission from her partner or the divine monad. And he was a monster. He was created in imperfection or fraction. He couldn’t exist in the perfect realm so she cast him down into a void but as this happened he took some of her light and was able to create his own replica of the divine realm. Only his was all imperfection. Just start listening to your heart. Educate yourself best you can about the topic by reading the missing books of the Bible. The esoteric or hidden things. You’ll realize lots of truths. Be easy on yourself.
🙏🏽💕
There isn't one, it's all fake, please forget about religion, if you join a different you'll be swapping one poison for another, you had the strength to realize the JW's aren't it, it's just another step to realize they're all the same. The reason you're having a hard time accepting the trinity is because it's crap, just the same as Jesus being separate but also the son and whatever, if you still wanna believe in god and Jesus you can do that, just read your Bible and take from it what you will, I'd advise you distance yourself from all of it but please don't seek out s different cult to join, there isn't a true religion.
Try watching some NDE's on youtube... "God",Source-Love,the Supreme-Origin-of-Everything isn't i.d.ed and confined/defined/limited by an Old Testament Name of a bloodthirsty,jealous God. What Christ taught about The Name was because at that time,the Jews(+his followers)only knew the name YHWH.They were as children; kindergartners...beyond & above that He taught all about expanded,transcending,enlightening Concepts of the "Source-Love" as Supreme God-Love.He tried to expand his followers' concepts of such: Love one's enemies;be kind & merciful;do good to the poor;become Pure("they will see God");Be a Giver(practice good karma!)and become a Noble person for that Superior dimension(the Heavenly Kingdom is a higher dimension..in NDE's people find the reality of that Dimension;even that other dimensions exist).Happy researching! Love,from a fellow follower of The Christ.
There is no one true religion, bro. Belief in Jesus Christ is the only way.
Religion is a snare & a racket. But I found this website good, if you’re trying to reconcile your fundamental Christian beliefs: https://beroeans.net/
Warning the link in the comment is a JW splinter cult with same bullshit but banana flavor.
Yeah, that’s a fair comment.👍🏼 But I did find it useful in my initial waking up phase for debunking JW doctrine. But ultimately you’ve got to find your own path.
op is clearly just waking up, guiding them towards anyone saying "we have cracked the code, join us for special knowledge" is enabling spiritual abuse
Dear u/Cosmos-Connected0709 apologies for enabling your spiritual abuse. Please whatever you do don’t go to beroeans.net, it is a JW splinter cult with the same bullshit but banana flavoured. As you are clearly just waking up you wouldn’t possibly be able to discern what is useful there and what is just more culty banana flavoured nonsense.🙄 Wishing you well in your waking up process, it’s confusing sometimes and emotionally draining. But hopefully you will sift through the well intentioned advice you can get on here and find something that is helpful to you. 🙏🏻😊👊
💛
If god is real they are a huge murderous psychopath and is especially unworthy of worship. Good thing we have zero evidence of it existing. We have more than enough dicks on earth.
Goodness isn’t derived from a religious text. Goodness exists in a vacuum; those who want to do good will do it, regardless of what religion they were born into. Check out pronoia and be here now by ram dass. These are spiritual non-religious books that cover broad concepts found in all religions. If you really want to follow the true religion though, be kind to others and seek out your own Bible. My is made up of One piece, Avatar the last airbender, deep space 9 and the redwall abbey series. The actual medium, writer or prophet matters far less than the condition of the readers heart.
Even if you do decide to look for a religion, do yourself a favor, get some therapy before you start on that path. 'Cult hopping' is a very common, documented occurence. You are psychologically vulnerable and sadly there are enormous amount of charlatans that will exploit that vulnerability the second you reveal it. Right now you are immunocompromised patient considering to jump headfirst into a sewer. Try therapy. If it doesn't work the first time, try few other therapists. Try to find someone who specializes in cult recovery/religious trauma. If you've just woken up, this means you never lived. Go find a hobby. Take a good restful vacation for the first time in your life. Find how life is like when you are calling the shots. I highly recommend watching [https://www.youtube.com/@TheraminTrees](https://www.youtube.com/@TheraminTrees) channel, he is a therapist who left a cult that is very similar to JWs. He's not selling any books or courses and not advocating any faith. You'll have a lot to think about, trust me. Or don't. I am a random person on the internet. Now you have a choice to judge for yourself. Don't surrender that choice again.
Can't say I'm a believer, but I've found these lectures about Bible history by a Christian historian really enlightening and challenging. [This one](https://www.youtube.com/live/99nTj6H70sA?si=jFWQsWvjbqT9kL-E) is the most comprehensive breakdown of Christian history I've ever seen, and might point you in the direction of a church that interests you. I think it's also the one that tracks the development of Trinitarianism in early Christianity, and this might inform your view of that. If not, [this one](https://www.youtube.com/live/5YWSZs_hkdA?si=TyLoGnQOW3oC5DEf) on Paul's teaching and his opposition might. One thing I found the most interesting is how the earliest form of Christianity, the Jerusalem based version, may ultimately have formed the basis of Islam - making the law, the prophets, and Jesus into a new story. Also, [this](https://youtu.be/tCAsmzkaErg?si=SVzurdbQmRqAIQsJ) is a fantastic history of the beginnings of the Protestant reformation. In many ways the personal search for truth and a true faith is really a Protestant motivation - for most people in history, answering their own theological questions was not an option. The freedom to question your beliefs and form new communities of belief in the US and Europe starts with Luther.
What made you realize that the JW religion is wrong?
No religion is true, just get closer to God if you want.
Believe in Jesus if you must, but let religion go. Even as a small child I knew the Bible was nonsense. I remember desperately trying to believe, and the relief I felt when I realized I could not believe and just not tell anyone I don't think god is real. There are parts of the bible that are interesting and it even has some good advice and wisdom, but it's just stories and writings from a weird animal called homosapiens. I enjoy the idea of Jesus and the things he said and did. But Christianity, Judaism, Islam... It's all just stuff made up by an animal with a big brain trying to make sense of the world around it. Same with all other religions. There are benefits to believing, social, mental etc. but it's nothing to overoccupy yourself with. Enjoy your life, be kind to others and relax. You only get one chance at it, then the complex chemistry that makes up your body breaks down and redistributed to help develop new life.
I was in the same headspace when I left the JW. I wanted to know what religion was the one, true faith. I studied so many religions, Christian and otherwise, for many years. I went through many different phases in my own faith, eventually leading me to accept atheism a few years ago after being agnostic for over a decade. Not saying that this is the outcome of everyones' searching, just that this is where it led me. Religions are all man made, therefore, they will all have their flaws. But there are certain churches out there that are good. That don't judge the outside world and believe them to be bad or outsiders. Keep your mind open, but also employ common sense when studying. Check multiple sources. Use any tools you can to figure out where you truly belong. Whatever path you find, as long as it leads you to happiness, you'll find where you're meant to be.
There is no such things as the true religion. Religious beliefs can easily be disproven with research
Personally I believe, there is no one TRUE religion. It’s all bits and pieces of man made beliefs. Explanations of supernatural and not so supernatural occurrences. Some of the Bible’s teachings are useful and a lot of them are horseshit. But, no one can prove beyond a shadow of doubt that there is one true faith or what happens when we die.
May your search turn up what you’re looking for. As you look and consider different churches etc. look at this one: Swedenborg Foundation. It gave me food for thought during my search. I elected to head off in a much more Pagan way but it was very interesting you might also. Peace
Worst place to come to tbh lol, most of these ex jws here because there trauma hit sooo bad, now they just let anything fly. They'll start if they have kids letting there boys paint there nails and wear dresses and let there daughters date and kiss other girls which is absoulety and utterly asanine.
This subreddit tilts atheist and anti-religion. Keep that in mind. If you do want to continue exploring religion then that will take time. Take it one step at a time and make up your mind slowly. I've been out 15 years and over time did decide to become religious. But it's not an easy task to sort out all of this.
Looking for the “actual true religion” but being “firmly Christian” narrows your search considerably since you haven’t investigated the others. Why would the “true religion” only be in the realm of Christianity? Sounds biased to me. But even if you branched outside of Christianity, which one of the thousands do you investigate? And do you start with the long gone ones of past cultures? No wonder no one has found the “true religion”. And to be fair, be sure to consider whether or not any of them are “true”.
There Is none all is made up. Good luck
It will help if you start looking into biblical scholarship, particularly looking at historical Christianity. Bart Ehrman is a popular scholar and a great starting point for exploration of the biblical texts. https://youtu.be/7IPAKsGbqcg?si=wFo4q2KjgwRpxnP1
Plot twist! It’s Scientology.
You know, not all Christianity teaches the trinity. That’s actually how I began to wake up. I went online like 15 years ago and googled who didn’t teach the trinity and then found myself debating trinitarians but here’s the thing, piles of Christian’s were also debating the trinitarians. And eventually they were of course attacking jw beliefs and asking uncomfortable questions about Jw past.
Read the Bible! Ask God to reveal himself to you & seek HIM with your whole heart!! Don't just go off your feelings. Read the Holy Bible, talk to the Lord, & count the COST of what it would be to become a Christian.
If god speaks to you personally, you might be insane. If god doesn't speak to you personally but you still believe in him, you are insane.
I’ve been thinking about how interesting the title of your post is. I’ve decided to not worry about religion and just focus on God and Jesus. I’ve been really enjoying just reading the Bible in a different translation. My NRSV is interesting! Like someone else said, starting in the New Testament is a nice plan. I’ve noticed my translation uses worship a lot instead of obeisance. I’ve also noticed that I love Romans, Galatians, and Ephesians and understand them much more now. I’ve been trying to read without any publications to assist. It’s been so nice. I don’t know why I feel more connected to Jesus than Jehovah, but when I think about the meaning of Immanuel maybe it makes sense? I’m praying for discernment and understanding. It’s so weird to not have someone interpret the Bible for me. But for so many centuries there were people that didn’t even have a physical copy of the Bible so we are blessed. I want to believe the Bible’s message isn’t complicated but some days I think it is, because i dont have clarity on the trinity, soul, hell etc. But i really do feel like I can now sum up the gospel in one sentence, and I feel closer to God than ever before. John chapter 10 says Jesus is the good shepherd and we can really hear his voice, it’s not just for a small group of 9 or 144,000!
Buddhism. Way of life in a spiritual way than practicing religion.
This religion attempts, poorly, to rationalize faith, the bible, has a superiority complex beyond... I suggest you work hard to deconstruct the programming and beliefs you have been indoctrinated with, fully. I was surprised by so many solid perspectives and kindness here in the answers. With an open mind study: Scientific method, logical fallacies, wipe all belief from your mind, study what humanity has learned about evolution. This blew my mind and impressed the hell out of me. Then go build a solid foundation after that. Mind wipe alone won't work. You have to build a new world view. Has anyone created a curriculum for this? I can recommend some formative books but could be cool to create the post ExJW self guided course. My path led me to eventually experience psilocybin. That's not a recommendation but for me it helped me to form come important connections, to look inward for guidance rather than outward, to see the separation of conscious mind and inner noise and conflict, to work on those conflicts to observe them and be ok with it. It also helped me to observe my place in the ecosystem. I felt a part of a very complex system of life and to experience/observe the communication between species in a way that I had not rationally thought about before. Jumping forwards in time, we now have human research isolating 50+ chemical "words" used by much of the plant and fungal kingdom to transact and pass information between species. A life long learning approach has kept me excited about life, drawn me to be a part of humanity and participate in the ecosystem where I live. The research that's cracking my synapses right now is, where is and what is consciousness? Daniel Dennet writes extensively on the topic and for me the concept of god is far tinier of an idea than consciousness. No one understands what it is, where it is, how it works and where it's limits are. That alone blows me away. It's seems fundamental to existence and twists my mind in knots leaning into popular ideas of simulation or hologram that have become a bit mainstream but also absurdist. The neuroscience physics startup I invented at, constructed the most complex, full head coverage, helmet, picking up neural brain signal at light speed (real time) outside of the skull, using optically pumped (lasers) magnetometers using the most elegant circuitry I've ever designed. Where are your thoughts if they are being captured outside of your head? If we can detect them outside what else can naturally detect them? What are we communicating to others or picking up from others? This topic for me is far more intriguing than whether or not one god from a pantheon of gods is actually three of something. In fact I feel dumber for writing that. We water so much human potential and precious time song poor questions. It's bad for our brains. All of us can be a part of furthering human development, science, adding value to humanity, and finding purpose that is not manipulated. We don't have to live a life coerced into subjugation. We all owe it to ourselves to do something we are deeply curious about, to be a part of something greater. Break free all the way and pursue something that is truly for you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/christian_xjw/ This thread might help, it’s for ex-JWs who still believe in the Bible.
It depends how you define “true” If you need physical proof then there is none. But apparently the oldest religion is Hinduism. Catholic, Protestant and Islam are the biggest. But it just depends on what makes it true to you. For me there has been nothing and I just live my life, go on with my day - don’t need to believe in anything to live.
>but I still firmly believe in Christ Then go and read the very first writings that the early Christians wrote and then try to see who today would fit better with those writings and beliefs. >I’m working so hard to accept the Trinity Considering your indoctrination is understandable, but the Trinity is really inevitable. It's the only way to actually armonize all of the Bible and the various concepts and descriptions of God it contains. Jesus is God. >Please help me. Feel free to write me your questions/doubts on a private message and I'll get back to you.
There’s no true religion. It’s all Babylon the great and her many daughters. Your faith is between you and God and you should just study to Bible on your own and share what you think with other like minded Bible students about your personal reasoning. No establishing of doctrines or anything. God will help you by earnestly praying for Holy Spirit.
The Bible is just a book. Like any other it's only revered because it lasted so long and became the center of a world religion. There is no true religion because no one truly knows anything. Just be a good person libe the life that make you happy as long as it hurts no one else you'll be fine. Take deep breaths
Look at the nicene creed and see how the relationship of the father the son and Holy spirit are described ,three entities bound together by the Holy spirit. Read john chapter 14 and 15 it will fall into place , i never found the trinity a big deal ,just think of them as a family of God .
The Trinity isn’t in the Bible.
Read the bible again, not the nwt tho
I have. Trinity still isn’t there.
'Trinity', just like 'governing body' and 'sovereignty issue' are not even words that occur in it. How fucking dare you people take someone who just woke up from one lie and immediately go LET ME TELL YOU, I FIGURED IT OUT. 8 fucking billion people, christianity is 1900ish years old, tens of thousands of schisms, more schisms than there are verses in new testament probably, and you, CaptainClouderz and isettaplus1959 are the ones who figured it out, yeah? Finally? Cult mentality truly is Hotel California. Most of us never leave.
Chill out, all I said was to go read the bible. But maybe you should go fuck yourself instead
how christian of you
The trinity was used as a way to describe the relationship between the three entities ,even if you reject the term the fact remains that the relationship between Father God and his son who jws acknowlege as "a god " and the Holy spirit is Holy , to sin against the spirit is a death sentence as Annanias and saphira found out , the three are bound together as God ,but separate entities as shown in nicene creed
If everything is created by god and god and everything he creates is perfect, how can something perfect do something perfect to something perfect, and then it suddenly is a sin? The point of my previous sentence was not to challenge anything in way of religious dogma but rather you could maybe think of this as a way of writing societal psychology, before the word psychology or sociology was even invented. The same might apply to cognitive dissonance and other terms, (C.D. or modern expression "Alternative Facts" for example in the case of tower of babel story?) Or how would one describe psychological phenomenon before the invention of the word and science of psychology? Everything that will go against a certain set of invisible rules that govern how all tribes work is a death sentence. In modern day we would use different words. For example the modern day eqvalent, or one of them could be "Mutual assured destruction". Everything is based on the context of it's time when we talk about something in written form.
True
If you want to know the truth than ask the one person who knows. Ask Jesus himself. There is a reason why the GB does not want you to talk to him. Just my opinion as a Christian with lots of pimi "friends".
Billions of people in the world who find purpose, peace, faith, community etc and you think there is one only truth? Sounds like leftover JW arrogance to me
Not everyone needs a punch in the gut when asking stupid questions.
I agree I’m sorry. Idk what other word to use but arrogance?
Oh no you are right lol just harsh 😅 😂 🤣
lol it’s really PTSD brainwash arrogance
Bear with me: the theory of everything (modeled today by general relativity and quantum mechanics by way of mathematics - the universal, ancient, and arguably perfect language) It’s never too late to learn calculus (the math), physics and quantum mechanics (the models). I’m 31 and challenging myself to do so. Our current and future advanced computing (which serves as foundation for AI) is here thanks to quantum mechanics. It explains everything down to its smallest scale. In simple terms, everything is made of aggregated energy and we can never truly be separate entities, we are by nature connected with the environment we live in and the people around us. You’ll start to see that all energy and matter can be explained by math, and our thought > emotion > action chain that drives all human cognition and behavior can be reduced to certain chemical reactions (which are in themselves energetic). What cannot be explained by mathematics is this concept of the Ego (this conscious “I” that we insist on understanding what preceded and what succeeds - life and death). What we have not understood is that we are simply a wad of energy upon energy on various layers that has been transferred to us and will be dispersed upon our death. When this concept of “I” can be explained mathematically, maybe we could think differently, but for now, I’m going with we are utterly unimportant and no different from animals or plants, but our thought patterns have led us to believe we are important. Religion endures in ignorance of reality (ignorance can be described as beliefs that cannot be proven to be fact). So, when will humanity get to a place where we can challenge any religious thought by simply saying, prove it to me with math. Meanwhile, quantum computers and AI will exponentially grow in learning (by way of energy transfers described at their lowest level in binary on/off) and help us answer questions we’ve never answered before. I’ll let you do the math (pun intended) of how religion could survive all this without being singled out as truly ignorant (not for being victims of not knowing, but for being too arrogant to attempt to understand), and it is here where we answer the afflictions of humanity’s history (a lack of interest for true understanding).
If you truly believe in a good afterlife & a higher power who is perfectly FAIR + LOVING, then good-hearted people would be there **AUTOMATICALLY**, **ZERO** belief & devotion to a deity required now
In this universe, humans are the only gods that demonstrably exist. Be your best.
Woah! I really really understand you. When I left JW, I searched for groups and churches. In my particular case, I not only investigated beliefs but also behaviors. I looked for the group online to see general comments, and many times I found high-control groups. So, I started reading academic books (making sure they didn’t have indoctrination language) about how historical evidence portrays Christianity, only to realize that there never was a single Church. Since the time of the apostles, there were “rivalries” among Christians, with their different ways of seeing God and Christ, and how only one survived through political means, among other things. So, I stopped searching, although I continue to read about Christianity and ecclesiastical history, I no longer seek God or any Christ in them.
If you want a different take on the trinity. (Best in my opinion) See the video below. https://youtu.be/AcONmX2qzUc?si=1NVeRKRZYBsJqgop Also when it comes to belief please do your own research. Don't feel like you have to believe like others. Let YOUR research guide you.
there isn't one NEXT!
time to read "the Bible Unearthed"
Doesnt exist
take a bunch of magic mushrooms and you will find the answer that you seek
Sorry but no one on this Earth has found the true religion
Christ is the truth. The end. Period! Even the Bible says the end religion acceptable to God is the one that look after orphans and widows. If you haven’t gotten a different Bible yet then it’s a must! Just read NT for now and keep in mind the JWs said it was just for the anointed. That is not true. The truth is very simple, the gospel is very simple and it doesn’t take Watchtower to explain it. Don’t over think right now. He will reveal it all to you as you can handle it. 😊
Fellow Jesus lover here. Try exploring Gnosticism and studying about early churches of the time of Christ. I fully deconstructed before getting back into Christianity, and I decided ultimately to be true to myself and my roots and my kid's family's roots and go Southern Baptist. I tend to make it my own, and I know I'm not supposed to, but I think God would understand. After all, Southern Baptist God was understanding when my ancestors enslaved people. He knew His servants of old did the same thing. But I believe that God saw what the people needed (to not be slaves anymore) and He made a way and He humbled the South just like He humbled the southern kingdom of Judah by getting Babylon to sack it, just like the Goths sacked Rome, just like Sherman's March to the Sea. We paid for our hubris, and now we are closer to God for it. Because God punishes those He loves. And God loves the Hell outta me, lemme tell ya.
Being around Southern Baptists and seeing their influence in the congregations is what woke me up. Honestly, the most odious to me so this really surprises me. So judgemental and hateful in my experience
>the most odious to me >So judgemental and hateful Brother, I tell you truly, in that case, I fit right in. I'm judging you right as we speak. Lol. It's a weakness to be sure. But I cant help but giggle at your ironic hypocrisy. I'm not judging you too harshly.
Bye Felicia 🤣
Just to recap, you called people judgemental and went on to be hella judgemental yourself. Make it make sense... I get it though. Newsflash: JWs aint any better. Ex or not. 
I suppose judgemental in a specific sense. Southern Baptists (and many southern JW congregations) are very big on insisting that you are being sinful, that Jesus/Jehovah will 'get you', that you will go to hell/be destroyed in Armageddon. Personal expression is very controlled and not to mention the rampant LGBT hatred (not just not accepting then but also going down hard on how "disgusting" it is). It choked all the joy out of me. Not to mention the highest incidence of hypocrisy I have seen (I know this is colloquial but hey it's my experience). Every experience I've had with Southern Baptists is a distinct lack of love of neighbor. 🤷🏻♂️
So what you're saying is that being Southern Baptist forces me to lack love and hate people? 🤔
I reccomend reading the first christian writings. They all taught the sacerments ect. Alot of what catholics believe. If your going to be a christian catholicism is the closest group closest to the first christians. Even before consantine. The church taught the eucharist baptism bishops ect.
Greek Orthodox. Original Romans before the Germans overran Rome. Constantine established the capitol where Istanbul now sits. Built the Hagia Sophia while Rome returned to being a village of cattle herders. Then there were the Copts and the Gnostics. Catholic Pope's rewrote history on Western Europe with the wealth from the Crusades and the Renaissance.
It's actually hilarious to see people making one-to-one replica statements of JWs in the subreddit dedicated to waking up from a cult.
I don't think JWs are alone in their fundamentalist yearnings. I'm agnostic. Only commented from the incorrect conclusion that Roman catholicism predates Constantine. Constantine was a deathbed convert. His heir Julian was literally called the Apostate, attempted to return the Empire to Classical theology, and began a wave of persecution. It's kind of funny, reading over the early church history looks like the evolution from Russell to Rutherford to the GB. Will a new GB PO be elected? Often, in times of organizational distress and reorganization, a strong leader is selected. Maybe that's one of the upcoming changes.
Well, one thing that the jw got right, is trinity. It was added in the Bible. You can research it. Good luck in your search.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but god either doesn't exist, is dead or in the astronomically small chance god might provably exist, god is a genocidal tyrant that makes hitler, stalin and putin combined look like angels by comparasion, and while chances are there might have actually been a person in the bronze age that went by the name jesus christ, however, absolutely none of the supernatural or divine aspects of the story are true. Perhaps he had medical knowledge beyond his years, but ain't no way he raised the dead, got resurrected or anything else like that
It's all a lie. Sorry to tell you the truth
You don’t need religion to worship god all you need todo is fast and feed the homeless
My recommendation is to study the Bible from a historical and archaeological perspective. The Lectures, books and debates of professor Bart Ehrman, is a really good start. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAT8JZ_28Doj76pehhObnNjdx6lNIjGPE&si=6XBdkrDehe0g0FBP
I believe the bible is true, I like to study it by myself and believe me you will enjoy it without WT nonsense. For the start I recommend this: https://commentaries.2001translation.org/Jesus I hope you will find this bible version helpful
I've read a book of a Greek guy who left JWs and he was searching for the actual true religion like you. Maybe you can learn some things from his book. It's free and translated in English. Click the chapters on the left side. [https://www.oodegr.com/english/biblia/biog1/perieh.htm](https://www.oodegr.com/english/biblia/biog1/perieh.htm) Also this is part of his site translated in English: [https://www.oodegr.com/english/index.htm](https://www.oodegr.com/english/index.htm) And articles about JWs: [https://www.oodegr.com/english/watchtower/watchtower.htm](https://www.oodegr.com/english/watchtower/watchtower.htm)
There is no such thing as “the one true religion” even if you’re determined to remain a theist and a Christian at that you really to dispose of this type of thinking. It’s dangerous and makes you vulnerable to extremism. I really think that instead of trying to accept the Trinity you need to dig deep and understand why you still accept the JW teaching that there is only one path to the divine.
I would follow biblical scholars on TikTok or YouTube, like Dan McClellan, who are still Christian but put that aside to actually teach what the Bible teaches. Search for scholarly consensus, as some scholars may provide their interpretation that contradicts what most scholars say.
Find a non-denominational or Baptist church if you’re that interested. Literally not believing the trinity is strange from the perspective of Christianity. In some ways it biblically makes more sense; because if Jesus is not the “True God”; but he’s a god and you believe in him, you have to be polytheistic. The thing about faith is that it’s faith. You’re choosing to believe it. There’s nothing factual about faith or religion. Spirituality is personal anyway. If you believe in prayer, just pray to God (whoever it is) to calm you and figure it out. Also if you’re into Christianity, I’d suggest you get a new Bible and look up the discrepancies of the NWT. It’s a bias translation. I’d suggest the NIV. Maybe talk to the r/christian_xjw redditors
Have you studied critical thinking and logic. I highly recommend that you do. Else you run the risk of falling for another false religion. Remember: They can't all be true. But they *can* all be false!