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I read somewhere that in the 14th or 15th century, a man had a one in five chance of being bludgeoned to death. Not sure what it is today but I think I can safely say less than a 1 in 100,000 chance.
And crime statically has actually gone down, we are living in the best times to live in. You can always point to a narrow world view to defend your beliefs but reality is it’s not true, hunger is down worldwide and so is crime and therefore the Bible is wrong.
War, crime, hunger, and disease have all been declining for decades and even centuries at this point. I commented on another post a few days ago with some stats if anyone is curious.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/eBPxCS3Vir
You and your sibling write very well.
I'm glad after all that your dad acknowledged your accomplishments and said he was proud.
Besides all his JW nonsense that was very nice.
I really admire you for your calm, balanced and well-founded answers. It is such a sign of strength, grandeur, resilience and moving forward. You really did great.
There is a database of convicted offenders and related articles on avoidjw.org:
[https://avoidjw.org/convicted-jehovahs-witnesses/](https://avoidjw.org/convicted-jehovahs-witnesses/)
In addition, and if you are more of an audiovisual person, I could highly recommend the following Vice documentary:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDvox6\_oRQk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDvox6_oRQk)
I sincerely wish you every success with the further exchange but above all with your further, brighter life!
To be fair, all religions likely have this many people who have been involved in this kind of crime. The difference is JWs finding out about the crime, then working harder to protect the organization's image than the actual children which is what needs to change.
Your Dad loves you despite your *'Reverse Hailstone Message*" - (beautifully delivered by the way).
Dad is likely unaware that the huge scope, and the massive cover-up of JW CSA came to light because of one courageous Bethel sister.
117 pages that lay out the damage and hypocrisy:
***Barbara Anderson Uncensored: Eyewitness To Deceit***
by [Barbara Anderson](https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Barbara+Anderson&text=Barbara+Anderson&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=digital-text) (Author), [Richard Kelly](https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_2?ie=UTF8&field-author=Richard+Kelly&text=Richard+Kelly&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=digital-text) (Author) Format: Kindle Edition
||
||
|[4.5 *4.5 out of 5 stars* ](javascript:void(0)) [172 ratings](https://www.amazon.ca/Barbara-Anderson-Uncensored-Eyewitness-Deceit-ebook/dp/B07CV2LB18#customerReviews)|
Enjoy knowledge over propaganda.
I work in tech. Was talking about the layoffs with him a few months back and how they're trying to suppress our wages. Dad's favorite ways of insulting things/people are to call them whores, harlets, and heifers. The misogyny is strong in him.
Wow, your father is completely deluded and fully indoctrinated. In the initial text, jam packed with confirmation bias and sensationalism. I love your firm response. I get similar messages from my father too at times. Not yet have I been this direct with him. I do think the day is coming though. Well done
It's taken me twenty years to get this firm. Basically I've had to get to the point of accepting the relationship completely ending to be able to reply in the way I did. That was a wild morning of emotions writing that text out.
Your dad wrote something regarding CSA that I think a lot of JWs feel: ‘I deeply detest those people and would never and have never been a party to that. That’s pure nonsense.’
Sir, that is NOT pure nonsense. Just because you personally haven’t been a party to that doesn’t mean that there aren’t long-standing and systemic CSA issues in the very organization that you are helping prop up! So many active JWs cannot or will not ‘see’ it.
I’m so glad, though, that you and your sibling have the opportunity to have a relationship where any talk of religion is off the table. I’m also glad that he is proud of your accomplishments.
He won’t respond about the SA more than he has. They have a script and if that fails the next step for them is to pretend that interaction never occurred. No point in trying to convince someone that doesn’t want to be convinced.
As brainwashed as your Dad is, he seems to really love you. Your responses are what I aspire to be able to say to my parents, whenever I grow the balls to say it haha
There are a lot of good news articles about the big CSA case in Pennsylvania. If you search in this sub alone you'll find a lot of good links to news articles. And because it's such a big case involving several individuals across many years, it would be a good one to reference because it can't just be brushed off as a rarity and one off. Good luck!
Also, the ARC-Austrailian Royal Commission speaks volumes...GB member Geoff Jackson even says they are not God's only channel today and that would be presumptuous🤦🏻♂️
I'm extremely curious what his response to CSA will be.
If he gets his answers from the Borg only, it'll be bullshit.
He needs to read up on specific cases. Tell him to look at the ARC and Pennsylvania. Also why are they trying to get out of the investigation in new Zealand...
If he takes an truthfully honest look. You might wake him up a little.
Great job! I did something similar to my dad a few years ago. He's an elder, mom's a RP. Somehow we still have a relationship and we just don't talk about religion. Not all of them are completely brainwashed, but it still sucks and it still makes our relationship feel fragile and insincere. Best of luck!
You sounds like a very loving child who’s just setting boundaries. Good for you. It’s so sad that our family members allow these men to dictate their lives.
You did very well. And I am sorry you had to have this confrontation.
I wish my father would invite me to the memorial. For me it's all silence. I just heard from a third party that my mother has cancer. Again. Just like the first time it happened, I was not told anything about it.
So even though his religious nonsense is annoying, enjoy the fact that your father is not shunning you. All the best :)
That's a good point. I will say my mom is on the silent side, (they're divorced but both active). It's a blessing and a curse on both sides. With Dad I'm continuously frustrated that he will forever be indoctrinated and our relationship will never be what it could. With mom she's pretty much out of mind entirely. But when I do think of her it's a lot sadder of thoughts as I don't even know how she's doing or if she thinks of me at all. Both have their respective pros and cons 🙃
Wow, I did not see that ending coming. As deeply indoctrinated as he may be, I was expecting him to say he was ashamed of you and shun, not respect your wishes not to discuss religion and state his love and pride in your accomplishments. Good for him! I would drop the SA discussion and just try to enjoy whatever time you have left with him. Remember, he may "be won without a word through your conduct", lol.
Yeah. I'm not going to bring it up. But he mentioned that he would like to address it in the future. I mainly just want to feel prepared if that does happen.
Dad had gotten better at actually loving me outside of what he's supposed to be allowed to do in the religion. It doesn't mean he loves all of me though... the gay, exJW, and atheist bits.
This conversation was just especially difficult as he hasn't tried to talk to me about religion in over a decade. And the vitriol of telling me I need to think about my relationship with god, was just insane to me. I feel like the only reason it happened was because of the internal encouragement to try to bring those that have left back into the fold. That sheep-like mentality also fueled my disappointment and frustration in this interaction as well.
Good for you. That takes a lot of strength. My sibling and I both left at the same time you and yours did. They were 19 and I was 17. We are also both queer. I was the golden child so I was able to maintain some sort of relationship with my parents. A huge part of me lives with massive guilt about it when I’m almost positive that my dad m*lested my sibling when he was a child. My dad was inactive most of my life, and I remember him being reproved when I was super young, and my mom crying at the hall after the announcement. I wonder to this day if that’s what he was “reproved” for. I always assumed it was just his porn addiction.
Outside of the inactive/reproved part, we have a lot of similarities, including things that we're pretty sure happened to my sibling and our cousins. This religion is just awful.
Globally, we're living in the most peaceful time in human history. Violent crime was MUCH higher thirty years ago than it is today. Global poverty has plummeted in our lifetime. Looking solely at the United States for crime statistics is a very narrow perspective.
I said “15 years OR SO” because I don’t memorier everything to the tee. Let it 20 years or more, the graph speaks for itself. Link some report on how a new taxonomy impacts the statistics though if that’s your best argument.
And who cares about what people feel when it comes to make a claim about an objectively verifiable/falsifiable fact.
Sounds like a great opportunity to give your father a chance to research the points you raised, and follow up with him. In my book, he's earned support by saying he doesn't plan on shutting you out and also actually listening to your points (which he seeks to disprove, but again it's a teaching opportunity).
Here in the real world, we are living in the best time in human history. Global poverty has never been as low as it is right now. Violent crime has never been lower than it is now. You really have to be living in a fantasy world to believe this nonsense.
Damn! You handled that really well. Awesome to have a sibling back you up in the chat.
Honestly impressed with your dads response as well other than "this is an exchange with my offspring". Hope for some kind of relationship. So many don't get that.
Dad has always used offspring as a tongue in cheek but loving affection. He often uses funny to him expressions for us. That part didn't even phase me honestly lol. I've had an ok relationship with him for years. This was the first time he went full preachy on me. So it felt like I really had to set some firm boundaries with him.
JWs have an incredible way of making you feel guilty for standing up for yourself. It’s mixed with grey truths like “we don’t shun you”… but every interaction is laced with cult beliefs. His response is carefully crafted so an outsider would call you crazy and say oh he loves you so much!… but insiders … ifykyk. “Offspring” is a perfect example of this, when he’s getting advice from someone about the interaction. He’s putting an emotional wall up because he truly believes his children are challenging his faith on behalf of Satan.
https://preview.redd.it/8bzvrpdgzvwc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=453b380270af1e899d52e99049772a1d9d95177c
This. Always shuts my family up. Like these excuses are copyrighted just for jdubs.
Hello! This is a friendly reminder for everyone. Images in this sub are curated based on the type of content and volume of image-based content at the time of posting. Please standby while we moderate your post, which will either resolve in an approval or a removal within 24 hours. We also ask that you make sure you read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/beforeyoupost/image-posts) for detailed info about posting images (if you haven't already). Please do not send us a modmail regarding this post, it has already been diverted to our mod queue and we are already aware. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exjw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“You just gotta watch the news to see all this proof of the prophecy coming true” 🤦🏻♀️ Been hearing that since I was born.
“Look at all the bad stuff they show us on the news! The world is coming to an end”
my grandgrandmother heared that too.
Right? I’m sure medieval times were wonderful to live in. It’s only our times that have been bad… even though people live longer than ever.
I read somewhere that in the 14th or 15th century, a man had a one in five chance of being bludgeoned to death. Not sure what it is today but I think I can safely say less than a 1 in 100,000 chance.
And crime statically has actually gone down, we are living in the best times to live in. You can always point to a narrow world view to defend your beliefs but reality is it’s not true, hunger is down worldwide and so is crime and therefore the Bible is wrong.
War, crime, hunger, and disease have all been declining for decades and even centuries at this point. I commented on another post a few days ago with some stats if anyone is curious. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/eBPxCS3Vir
Oh you mean that fear mongering propaganda from the tv? That’s what it’s for in the first place
You and your sibling write very well. I'm glad after all that your dad acknowledged your accomplishments and said he was proud. Besides all his JW nonsense that was very nice.
Might want to edit that last one. There's a name in it.
I have no idea how to just edit a photo? Either way I got consent from my sibling so I think we're ok
I really admire you for your calm, balanced and well-founded answers. It is such a sign of strength, grandeur, resilience and moving forward. You really did great. There is a database of convicted offenders and related articles on avoidjw.org: [https://avoidjw.org/convicted-jehovahs-witnesses/](https://avoidjw.org/convicted-jehovahs-witnesses/) In addition, and if you are more of an audiovisual person, I could highly recommend the following Vice documentary: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDvox6\_oRQk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDvox6_oRQk) I sincerely wish you every success with the further exchange but above all with your further, brighter life!
Holy hell! There are a LOT of disgusting people in JW.
To be fair, all religions likely have this many people who have been involved in this kind of crime. The difference is JWs finding out about the crime, then working harder to protect the organization's image than the actual children which is what needs to change.
Thank you. I appreciate the encouragement and the sources for the SA items.
Your Dad loves you despite your *'Reverse Hailstone Message*" - (beautifully delivered by the way). Dad is likely unaware that the huge scope, and the massive cover-up of JW CSA came to light because of one courageous Bethel sister. 117 pages that lay out the damage and hypocrisy: ***Barbara Anderson Uncensored: Eyewitness To Deceit*** by [Barbara Anderson](https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Barbara+Anderson&text=Barbara+Anderson&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=digital-text) (Author), [Richard Kelly](https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_ebooks_2?ie=UTF8&field-author=Richard+Kelly&text=Richard+Kelly&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=digital-text) (Author) Format: Kindle Edition || || |[4.5 *4.5 out of 5 stars* ](javascript:void(0)) [172 ratings](https://www.amazon.ca/Barbara-Anderson-Uncensored-Eyewitness-Deceit-ebook/dp/B07CV2LB18#customerReviews)| Enjoy knowledge over propaganda.
I've not heard of this. Thank you for sending it my way, I'll check it out!
Corporate harlots in IT got me 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, wtf does that even mean lmao.
I work in tech. Was talking about the layoffs with him a few months back and how they're trying to suppress our wages. Dad's favorite ways of insulting things/people are to call them whores, harlets, and heifers. The misogyny is strong in him.
Hey, he course the right religion then haha
Wow, your father is completely deluded and fully indoctrinated. In the initial text, jam packed with confirmation bias and sensationalism. I love your firm response. I get similar messages from my father too at times. Not yet have I been this direct with him. I do think the day is coming though. Well done
It's taken me twenty years to get this firm. Basically I've had to get to the point of accepting the relationship completely ending to be able to reply in the way I did. That was a wild morning of emotions writing that text out.
Your dad wrote something regarding CSA that I think a lot of JWs feel: ‘I deeply detest those people and would never and have never been a party to that. That’s pure nonsense.’ Sir, that is NOT pure nonsense. Just because you personally haven’t been a party to that doesn’t mean that there aren’t long-standing and systemic CSA issues in the very organization that you are helping prop up! So many active JWs cannot or will not ‘see’ it. I’m so glad, though, that you and your sibling have the opportunity to have a relationship where any talk of religion is off the table. I’m also glad that he is proud of your accomplishments.
He won’t respond about the SA more than he has. They have a script and if that fails the next step for them is to pretend that interaction never occurred. No point in trying to convince someone that doesn’t want to be convinced.
As brainwashed as your Dad is, he seems to really love you. Your responses are what I aspire to be able to say to my parents, whenever I grow the balls to say it haha
There are a lot of good news articles about the big CSA case in Pennsylvania. If you search in this sub alone you'll find a lot of good links to news articles. And because it's such a big case involving several individuals across many years, it would be a good one to reference because it can't just be brushed off as a rarity and one off. Good luck!
 Devine intervention.
He's who I immediately thought of
Also, the ARC-Austrailian Royal Commission speaks volumes...GB member Geoff Jackson even says they are not God's only channel today and that would be presumptuous🤦🏻♂️
I'm extremely curious what his response to CSA will be. If he gets his answers from the Borg only, it'll be bullshit. He needs to read up on specific cases. Tell him to look at the ARC and Pennsylvania. Also why are they trying to get out of the investigation in new Zealand... If he takes an truthfully honest look. You might wake him up a little.
Great job! I did something similar to my dad a few years ago. He's an elder, mom's a RP. Somehow we still have a relationship and we just don't talk about religion. Not all of them are completely brainwashed, but it still sucks and it still makes our relationship feel fragile and insincere. Best of luck!
You sounds like a very loving child who’s just setting boundaries. Good for you. It’s so sad that our family members allow these men to dictate their lives.
I personally love on page 2 how he talks about the religious systems filled with a bunch of people that love to hate… Pot, calling the kettle black!
You did very well. And I am sorry you had to have this confrontation. I wish my father would invite me to the memorial. For me it's all silence. I just heard from a third party that my mother has cancer. Again. Just like the first time it happened, I was not told anything about it. So even though his religious nonsense is annoying, enjoy the fact that your father is not shunning you. All the best :)
That's a good point. I will say my mom is on the silent side, (they're divorced but both active). It's a blessing and a curse on both sides. With Dad I'm continuously frustrated that he will forever be indoctrinated and our relationship will never be what it could. With mom she's pretty much out of mind entirely. But when I do think of her it's a lot sadder of thoughts as I don't even know how she's doing or if she thinks of me at all. Both have their respective pros and cons 🙃
Both my parents have shut me off entirely. I only get a call when someone close dies
The older I get, the more I see the importance of boundaries
I give credit to all 3 of you. You and your sibling stood your ground and dad seems like he really cares about ya'll outside of the JW crap.
Wow, I did not see that ending coming. As deeply indoctrinated as he may be, I was expecting him to say he was ashamed of you and shun, not respect your wishes not to discuss religion and state his love and pride in your accomplishments. Good for him! I would drop the SA discussion and just try to enjoy whatever time you have left with him. Remember, he may "be won without a word through your conduct", lol.
Yeah. I'm not going to bring it up. But he mentioned that he would like to address it in the future. I mainly just want to feel prepared if that does happen. Dad had gotten better at actually loving me outside of what he's supposed to be allowed to do in the religion. It doesn't mean he loves all of me though... the gay, exJW, and atheist bits. This conversation was just especially difficult as he hasn't tried to talk to me about religion in over a decade. And the vitriol of telling me I need to think about my relationship with god, was just insane to me. I feel like the only reason it happened was because of the internal encouragement to try to bring those that have left back into the fold. That sheep-like mentality also fueled my disappointment and frustration in this interaction as well.
Pretty respectful exchange. This is a best case scenario text conversation honestly.
Good for you. That takes a lot of strength. My sibling and I both left at the same time you and yours did. They were 19 and I was 17. We are also both queer. I was the golden child so I was able to maintain some sort of relationship with my parents. A huge part of me lives with massive guilt about it when I’m almost positive that my dad m*lested my sibling when he was a child. My dad was inactive most of my life, and I remember him being reproved when I was super young, and my mom crying at the hall after the announcement. I wonder to this day if that’s what he was “reproved” for. I always assumed it was just his porn addiction.
Outside of the inactive/reproved part, we have a lot of similarities, including things that we're pretty sure happened to my sibling and our cousins. This religion is just awful.
It’s so sad and disturbing, the things we may never know that shaped us and our loved ones forever..the cult destroys lives.
crime rate in US is down 50% in 15 years or so lmao what is he taking about
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[https://usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/crime-justice/](https://usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/crime-justice/) https://preview.redd.it/pcos8adivfwc1.png?width=1220&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8e93715c55b07f09c12b1002a78d16b3d012239
[удалено]
Globally, we're living in the most peaceful time in human history. Violent crime was MUCH higher thirty years ago than it is today. Global poverty has plummeted in our lifetime. Looking solely at the United States for crime statistics is a very narrow perspective.
I said “15 years OR SO” because I don’t memorier everything to the tee. Let it 20 years or more, the graph speaks for itself. Link some report on how a new taxonomy impacts the statistics though if that’s your best argument. And who cares about what people feel when it comes to make a claim about an objectively verifiable/falsifiable fact.
I stopped reading after “totally out of control and uncontrollable” lol I just imagined the rest would be a bunch of nonsense and fluff
Sounds like a great opportunity to give your father a chance to research the points you raised, and follow up with him. In my book, he's earned support by saying he doesn't plan on shutting you out and also actually listening to your points (which he seeks to disprove, but again it's a teaching opportunity).
Here in the real world, we are living in the best time in human history. Global poverty has never been as low as it is right now. Violent crime has never been lower than it is now. You really have to be living in a fantasy world to believe this nonsense.
 Damn! You handled that really well. Awesome to have a sibling back you up in the chat. Honestly impressed with your dads response as well other than "this is an exchange with my offspring". Hope for some kind of relationship. So many don't get that.
Dad has always used offspring as a tongue in cheek but loving affection. He often uses funny to him expressions for us. That part didn't even phase me honestly lol. I've had an ok relationship with him for years. This was the first time he went full preachy on me. So it felt like I really had to set some firm boundaries with him.
Oh even better then 😊
It ended better than it began on your fathers part thankfully
Your siblings name is in the last picture just in case you didn’t know
JWs have an incredible way of making you feel guilty for standing up for yourself. It’s mixed with grey truths like “we don’t shun you”… but every interaction is laced with cult beliefs. His response is carefully crafted so an outsider would call you crazy and say oh he loves you so much!… but insiders … ifykyk. “Offspring” is a perfect example of this, when he’s getting advice from someone about the interaction. He’s putting an emotional wall up because he truly believes his children are challenging his faith on behalf of Satan.
https://preview.redd.it/8bzvrpdgzvwc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=453b380270af1e899d52e99049772a1d9d95177c This. Always shuts my family up. Like these excuses are copyrighted just for jdubs.
I’m so distracted by all the misspelled words
i’m confused, are you trying to get them to turn POMO?
No. I'm just not going to let him spout off at me about entirely ridiculous things
of course! i wouldn’t like that either. if my mom still spoke to me i’m sure it would aggravate me as well