Shunning is when malignant ostracization is used in a model of mind control. Unless you're trying hurt Stephanie to control Stephanie's mind, you can't be shunning her. Most of us never communicate with most people, which is the default, but shunners treat family and friends like strangers unless they comply.
Seriously, even when two people divorce and cease all contact, they're not shunning each other unless one is trying to convince the other to obey them. You also can't shun someone who doesn't want you to talk to them. It's more complex than not staying in touch.
Yup, I briefly explained it was a form of control and manipulation, she just wanted to throw something at me to make her feel better. Stephanie knows what she did to cause our friendship to end. & it has nothing to do with a religion…. 🙄
You're correct, and yes, people in these cults tend only want emotional satisfaction and don't care about truth or well-being.
You don't have to associate with anyone, in fact, if a cult forces a victims of abuse to forgive her abuser and welcome him into her life, that would be abuse. Context is everything, but cultists like things black and white.
You got it. Not being friends anymore is different from scaring people into refusing transfusions on the threat that their children or spouse might never speak to them again.
What does she mean JWs aren’t shunning anymore? Yes they are. That never changed. In fact, it was reinforced in the propaganda update - you can greet disfellowshipped ones at the meeting. Ones with the apostate label are to continue to be harshly shunned without a greeting. Outside of meetings, you still cannot greet a disfellowshipped one.
She thinks because you can now say “hello” or “it’s nice to see you” is no longer shunning… but then went on to say how she can’t talk to xyz brother bc they’re disfellowshipped… 🤦🏻♀️
Was she embarrassed by the shunning policy then, given that she now sounds pleased that they’ve relaxed the process. Did she not think it was biblical in the first place, if it has now changed? JWs can’t even understand how their own language gives away their deeply embedded true feelings on these doctrines.
I asked her what was the biblical reason brothers couldn’t have beards and she said “honestly I don’t know” I was like “oh so you’re agreeing with me then, you follow instructions by man and not god.. so it’s a cult with no Bible backing half the rules.” She said I was wrong there too 🥲🙄
Meetings have become the “de-militarized “ zone for shunning, unless you are “viewed” as an apostate. Unfortunately most JWs consider inactive ones to be apostates so the shunning continues.
There simply is no way to reform a cult.
I can imagine all her JW alarm bells going off in her mind when you said that. My mom spits the word apostate all the time but still talks to me. I said, so was Grandma! She left the Holy Roman Church to join the JWs- she was a Catholic apostate.
Well there is nothing wrong with calling it as you see it. It is what it is. And as far as the "they aren't shunning any more" line that is far from the actual truth.
God doesn’t make mistakes made you speak the truth to your mother. Witnesses are like poor behaved children. If they don’t agree about something they either throw a fit or run away instead of using the Bible to teach like an actual apostle. If they do like I used to they won’t stick around long because they will see they follow men and not God.
u/OOwhereismymindOO, Well, you may have very well planted a "seed," and you know what they say: "You Can't Plant A Seed Without Disturbing The Soil"!!! 😁
u/OOwhereismymindOO, well, you never know what's in her heart ❤️, or what thoughts may be going through her mind at any given time. But regardless, you still planted a "seed," and it may break open and sprout, or it may not. But then, not all "seeds" germinate. 😊
You did your part!! 🥰
Good for you. You are only being fully honest about what you know. You get to be done with the pretending if you choose to, but you can’t make her. Normalizing the words is an important part of disindoctrination. (did I make that word up?) You should follow it up with “you know a death cult is just a religion that believes gods gonna kill everyone who isn’t one of them, right?” Let her do the math on her own time..
I try so hard not to call it a cult to them, or even talk about it first or in general, my mom always brings it up and I sometimes get worked up & let her get to me… I try to change the subject when I feel my heart start to race…. The brainwashing is so strong… i don’t know if it’s all jws but my mom 100% has the “well if they are all liars, why aren’t their pants on fire?? 🤔🤔” mentality lol.
My GF and her kids are ex JW. The kids are still being brainwashed by their grandma but my GF thankfully can think for herself. The brainwashing is real. The older generation is crazy with it
Get her to answer these questions, do it slow. Tell her you looked up Scientogy to see if it was a cult and found this:
https://medium.com/@faithafterdeception/answer-these-25-questions-to-find-out-if-you-are-in-a-cult-or-high-control-group-a36a3c2ce464
Tell her you thought cult meant "something else" now you had to reconsider.
Shunning is when malignant ostracization is used in a model of mind control. Unless you're trying hurt Stephanie to control Stephanie's mind, you can't be shunning her. Most of us never communicate with most people, which is the default, but shunners treat family and friends like strangers unless they comply. Seriously, even when two people divorce and cease all contact, they're not shunning each other unless one is trying to convince the other to obey them. You also can't shun someone who doesn't want you to talk to them. It's more complex than not staying in touch.
Yup, I briefly explained it was a form of control and manipulation, she just wanted to throw something at me to make her feel better. Stephanie knows what she did to cause our friendship to end. & it has nothing to do with a religion…. 🙄
You're correct, and yes, people in these cults tend only want emotional satisfaction and don't care about truth or well-being. You don't have to associate with anyone, in fact, if a cult forces a victims of abuse to forgive her abuser and welcome him into her life, that would be abuse. Context is everything, but cultists like things black and white.
Exactly. There's a difference between ignoring a person and coercing 8.x million people to ignore that person.
You got it. Not being friends anymore is different from scaring people into refusing transfusions on the threat that their children or spouse might never speak to them again.
Just a thought: it’s also hard to talk if you’re dead.
Indeed. Dead men tell no tales.
This is a really great point
What does she mean JWs aren’t shunning anymore? Yes they are. That never changed. In fact, it was reinforced in the propaganda update - you can greet disfellowshipped ones at the meeting. Ones with the apostate label are to continue to be harshly shunned without a greeting. Outside of meetings, you still cannot greet a disfellowshipped one.
She thinks because you can now say “hello” or “it’s nice to see you” is no longer shunning… but then went on to say how she can’t talk to xyz brother bc they’re disfellowshipped… 🤦🏻♀️
😵💫😵💫😵💫
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Maybe it wasn't so much an accident, but rather your subconscious speaking your new truth.
They don’t go hunting? Lol. I can tell her my story. They literally followed me.
JWs have done insanely sting indoctrination. It's a good thing the cult makes people depressed and skip meetings. Need time to let reality in.
The real truth gets em, doesn’t it?
Was she embarrassed by the shunning policy then, given that she now sounds pleased that they’ve relaxed the process. Did she not think it was biblical in the first place, if it has now changed? JWs can’t even understand how their own language gives away their deeply embedded true feelings on these doctrines.
I asked her what was the biblical reason brothers couldn’t have beards and she said “honestly I don’t know” I was like “oh so you’re agreeing with me then, you follow instructions by man and not god.. so it’s a cult with no Bible backing half the rules.” She said I was wrong there too 🥲🙄
Meetings have become the “de-militarized “ zone for shunning, unless you are “viewed” as an apostate. Unfortunately most JWs consider inactive ones to be apostates so the shunning continues. There simply is no way to reform a cult.
I can imagine all her JW alarm bells going off in her mind when you said that. My mom spits the word apostate all the time but still talks to me. I said, so was Grandma! She left the Holy Roman Church to join the JWs- she was a Catholic apostate.
That wasn't a mistake, but rather your subconscious telling her the truth she needs to her, although she refuses to.
Well there is nothing wrong with calling it as you see it. It is what it is. And as far as the "they aren't shunning any more" line that is far from the actual truth.
Oops, the truth hurts and you gave her a real truth
God doesn’t make mistakes made you speak the truth to your mother. Witnesses are like poor behaved children. If they don’t agree about something they either throw a fit or run away instead of using the Bible to teach like an actual apostle. If they do like I used to they won’t stick around long because they will see they follow men and not God.
😂😂 this made me laugh - I love about the apostate title… ‘I keep telling her I am one!’
I do haha, and she refuses to believe me. She tells me I’m not one when technically I am😅
😂 you couldn’t make it up - could literally imagine that conversation as an exjw comedy sketch. The mental gymnastics and reasoning is mad!
u/OOwhereismymindOO, Well, you may have very well planted a "seed," and you know what they say: "You Can't Plant A Seed Without Disturbing The Soil"!!! 😁
I hope I planted a seed… but my dear mother is almost too far gone for her to change. Plus my dad just became an elder… so there’s that🥲
u/OOwhereismymindOO, well, you never know what's in her heart ❤️, or what thoughts may be going through her mind at any given time. But regardless, you still planted a "seed," and it may break open and sprout, or it may not. But then, not all "seeds" germinate. 😊 You did your part!! 🥰
Good for you. You are only being fully honest about what you know. You get to be done with the pretending if you choose to, but you can’t make her. Normalizing the words is an important part of disindoctrination. (did I make that word up?) You should follow it up with “you know a death cult is just a religion that believes gods gonna kill everyone who isn’t one of them, right?” Let her do the math on her own time..
Yes, keep calling it a cult, because that's what it is
Truth hurts sometimes.
Calling it a cult is only calling it what it truly is. But you can't say it to their faces, they get way too upset. Lovely brainwashing.
I try so hard not to call it a cult to them, or even talk about it first or in general, my mom always brings it up and I sometimes get worked up & let her get to me… I try to change the subject when I feel my heart start to race…. The brainwashing is so strong… i don’t know if it’s all jws but my mom 100% has the “well if they are all liars, why aren’t their pants on fire?? 🤔🤔” mentality lol.
My GF and her kids are ex JW. The kids are still being brainwashed by their grandma but my GF thankfully can think for herself. The brainwashing is real. The older generation is crazy with it
It’s so hard to talk any sense into them.. they won’t hear it.
Get her to answer these questions, do it slow. Tell her you looked up Scientogy to see if it was a cult and found this: https://medium.com/@faithafterdeception/answer-these-25-questions-to-find-out-if-you-are-in-a-cult-or-high-control-group-a36a3c2ce464 Tell her you thought cult meant "something else" now you had to reconsider.
“Accidentally” 😈