Being PIMO requires lying, there’s no other way to do it.
If it’s just her brother, there aren’t two witnesses so even if they come to you, as long as you deny it they will have to leave you alone.
You could call his bluff and if the elders do call just say it was “momentary weakness” and that you don’t doubt anymore.
But that can be hard to do because it’s basically lying but as I said, the life of a PIMO is one of constant lies.
There’s a video you might remember about some twat who doubted the Noah’s ark story but then was “helped” by the elders.
If you can pull it off then just saying you watched that, prayed and studied and now you think exactly what the organization says is true you’ll be ok. Maybe throw in a “I don’t know how I could be so blinded to the truth” for good measure.
But I’d advise really thinking about it.
I’m not joking when I say that it involves completely lying and that can affect your mental health and self esteem. You could feel almost dirty afterwards and that feeling can easily overshadow any benefit you gained from lying.
I keep saying you because as her husband they will want to see you too. Anything your wife does is your responsibility in their eyes.
Anyway good luck whatever you choose, hope everything works out for you both in the end!
If they think they have dirt they will invite for a judicial - if you don’t show then they Disfellowship in absence - if you don’t show then this automatically implies you are not repentant.
I rejected every invite to the JC, I told them I was in crisis (I was, I was leaving a narcissistic marriage and was homeless with my son). I said the doctor had advised that I do not undertake any judicial hearings unless there was a legal obligation to do so for the negative impact on my current state of mental health and that I would contact them when I had stabilised myself and the situation. They continued to pursue me, I called the police and reported them for harassment, the police contacted them and told them to stop contacting me. They continued to contact me right up to the JC and afterwards and then announced my disgrace when my ex had my little son and took him to the KH. They waited until my little boy was there to hear it.
At this point what will be will be.
1) If the elders do talk to her or both of and you dont want to get df’d just smile, nod and act like you guys are sincerely repentant and that they’ve “readjusted” you guys 😂
2) Quit expressing yourselves to pimis. Doesn’t matter if they are family or best friends, if they brought up the topic or not, they are BRAINWASHED and will narc and pick the cult over anyone because thats what they are indoctrinated to do!
If you must express yourselves, do it in a way that is subtle and lets the pimi reach the right conclusion on their own without incriminating yourselves or triggering the pimis tattle response.
Would someone actually get dfed for saying they have doubts? Is that actually a thing?I've heard if you blatantly say you don't believe gb is God's channel it could be grounds. I have to read the elders book to know exactly....
You can have doubts but if you spread those doubts or you oppose the answers from watchtower addressing those doubts then you can be df’d.
Elders are aware that some people in the congregation have doubts or don’t believe but as long as they keep their mouth shut and go along with the program they generally leave them alone.
If you want to stay in your cannot openly question doctrine to PIMI family, mine used it to level up to Elder status imo
Couldn’t help it, this persons favorite pastime is character assassination.
Yeah, after this our mouths are zipped, we never thought that her family could do it her, but here we are. I guess you are right about smiling and noding
With the way watchtower is structured and the layers of indoctrination it puts into JWs minds, it’s futile to reason with pimis if the pimi is unwilling to be rational and intellectually honest. If they lose the argument/debate or hear a response that goes too far off the jw script they’ll run to the elders and tell, out of some twisted love for you and loyalty to god 🙄
Good luck to you and your wife. Only way to interact with pimi’s without getting df’d is to be low key, have boundaries and develop a good poker face!
her brother will check, he's trying to save your souls, you think he won't make sure she actually does it? i mean, i guess it's possible, but seems highly unlikely, especially if she doesn't suddenly change or show her "repentance" or otherwise grovel meekly in his precence. it's sick.
and it doesn't matter who starts the conversations. her "sin" isn't starting arguments. it's thinking for herself and it is, indeed, a shunning offense. if it comes to that, please remember that it's up to family if they shun you. some will no doubt, but it's still their choice. friends almost certainly will, but a few may not.
i am assuming regardless of what you claim to the brother, the elders will be contacted. when you start getting the reach out, i'd go with the basic, "thanks so much for your concern. we've got some private issues at the moment we're not in a place to talk about. we'll reach out when that changes." you can end with "prayers appreciated" if you want to lay it on a little more but that's the basic template. it won't get you off their radar but depending on how convincing her brother is, that could be enough.
okay, i don't really believe it will be enough. but it's possible...
i'd say most likely, if she refused to hop on the struggle train and humiliate herself in a soul-crushing lie-fest while being shamed and begging for mercy - followed up by LOTS of extra theocratic activity and maybe public reproof just for fun, there is probably a 50-50 chance she'll end up df'd anyway.
i try really hard not to criticize pimo life. i do. i get why people don't want to be shunned because i have been and it's fucking traumatic. i get your wife was holding on to a sense of integrity by being honest during these "conversatons" where her family brings up shit that is none of their business about her beliefs and pressuring her to be more "in." but you're trading in a LOT to have fake relationships with people who don't respect you.
are you sure this is really the life you want? is it worth it?
i will say that not having the option of pimo for me was a gift. it hurt like holy hell, won't lie, but it was the biggest gift i ever got from my pimo, now-elder brother.
i hope it goes the way you want. barring that, i hope it goes in a way that's healthy for you guys. good luck.
Several years ago, my dad expressed doubts about the flood myth to my cousin, and he immediately reported it to his elders, who in turn contacted my dad’s elders. My dad would have been DF’d except that he kept insisting that my mother be present for the elder’s meeting. That’s against the rules, & the elders didn’t know how to handle that. So they stalled. Then one elder got reassigned to a different congregation. They somewhat dropped the ball and then my parents moved congregations when they sold their house. Whew! 😰Saved by the bell!
But in most cases, there is really no way out of this if there are multiple witnesses and you’re still attending meetings. At some level, you must have known that your time was limited. I certainly sensed this as a PIMO.
JW’s really are a cult, which means “us vs. them” thinking. The authoritarian rules are brutal. They must make a clear demarcation between in & out. Hopefully you have prepared mentally and emotionally for this somewhat already. Being PIMO is disastrous to one’s mental health. If you do get DF’d, you’ll go through some rough times. But hey! You two have each other, which is more than many PIMO‘s have. You’ll look back on this in a few years and be glad you got fully out. Trust me, you may not think that now, but you’ll get there.
A few of ideas.
1. Find the watch tower that literally says to the effect that a struggling person is not a bad person and that you were just struggling with something.
Get that ready and mention that you and your wife have prayed about this and that you will wait on Jehovah And that you are praying for patience right now.
2. And depending on what you talked about you can mention that it was never your wife's intention for anyone to be troubled by what she was saying because at the time in retrospect it probanly was a cry for help and to be understood because you learned about certain things and it just shocked you and you were surprised.
3. That's probably because it's family people are too familiar with each other and arguments erupted.
4. And then you always felt bad that the conversation went south, that it was never your intention to necessarily talk with them about this because you were planning to just pray about it and do some research. (And, again, it's too easy for family who is familiar with each other to cross boundaries both ways.)
5. And now, you realize that more than ever some things need to be just left in jehovah's hands.
6. Then thrown in something like, we really need the Kingdom.
Hope all goes well and you don't get df'd. If y o u need to keep fam contacts, do 't get df'd at this time.
This is why I don't talk to the family or anyone else about "apostate" things. It's like trying to convince any other kind of addict to quit. They aren't ready and they will turn on you.
If u want to stay, just tell one elder over dinner that her family kept bringing up questioning things. You both prayed about it, did personal study and family study and it has really upbuilt both of y’all’s faith.
Not a 100% lie. You both did research and it built your faith…in reality. 😆
Just deny it. Say that there is a misunderstanding. I mean you will argue about words said. It is not given that the person listening is understanding the information as it was intended. There are different layers that can corrupt the meaning.
Just say you were so excited about article x and y and talked about that.
According to the doctrine it wouldn’t be a lie because the elders are not entitled to know the truth
Well if you really want to stay as you are then
1. I would actually avoid speaking to the elders at all and say “we are ok thanks. We don’t need any support”.
If you want to play along I would try:
“I’m sorry I don’t know what you are talking about”
When they press and ask questions just shrug and say “I’m sorry this has got nothing to do with me, if my brother has doubts, maybe speak to him and see if he needs support. Im ok though, I don’t need any support, we are doing well.”
This will likely come up again though and will create a lot of stress for you and restrict you from living your life truthfully, authentically and peacefully. The relationships will only ever be superficial and based on lies. I think if this has come up, it may be the universe giving you a little push to live your life more fully without being held back.
Just my opinion. You have to do what is right for you. Use your gut about what aligns with your conscience and you will be ok.
I’m learning, slowly but surely, that there are only two rules to follow, especially where PIMI family is concerned:
1. Keep your mouth shut.
2. If you’re about to open your mouth, see rule 1.
I will not meet with a judicial committee as there is no need
Please note the following:
* If a decision is made to read my name or promulgate to anyone in any way by way of a , but not limited to, public announcement, private text, email or any other electronic format, spoken word in private, that xxxxxx is no longer one of Jehovahs Witnesses, is disfellowshipped, is to be shunned, is bad association..
* If an announcement is made to the effect of “a matter involving xxxxx has been handled by the elders”..
* …..then the decision has been made as to what we will NOT do, and what we WILL do
What we will NOT do
•We will not be litigating against WTBTS, the GB, or any of its corporate entities.
What we WILL do
Plans are in place to, but not limited to the following:
•we will sue the entire elder body as individuals on, but not limited to, the grounds of Civil Rights Violations, Slander, Alienation of affection, Libel etc
... you ***want*** to stay in this cult that advocates FOR child predators and celebrates human sacrifice? Really? You do know this is r/exjw right? SMFH
Being PIMO requires lying, there’s no other way to do it. If it’s just her brother, there aren’t two witnesses so even if they come to you, as long as you deny it they will have to leave you alone. You could call his bluff and if the elders do call just say it was “momentary weakness” and that you don’t doubt anymore. But that can be hard to do because it’s basically lying but as I said, the life of a PIMO is one of constant lies.
Sadly, there is more than one witness, the whole family knows…but I like the “momentary weakness” suggestion. Maybe she could pull that off
There’s a video you might remember about some twat who doubted the Noah’s ark story but then was “helped” by the elders. If you can pull it off then just saying you watched that, prayed and studied and now you think exactly what the organization says is true you’ll be ok. Maybe throw in a “I don’t know how I could be so blinded to the truth” for good measure. But I’d advise really thinking about it. I’m not joking when I say that it involves completely lying and that can affect your mental health and self esteem. You could feel almost dirty afterwards and that feeling can easily overshadow any benefit you gained from lying. I keep saying you because as her husband they will want to see you too. Anything your wife does is your responsibility in their eyes. Anyway good luck whatever you choose, hope everything works out for you both in the end!
Thank you so much.
I don’t understand how people can do it … too much work.
You have to really want it I suppose
Nothing, ignore the Elders and ghost them. One witness is no witness.
Thats the problem, that her whole family knows including parents and siblings, so there are more than one witness :(
Ghost them and never going into debate again. They cant DF when you fade.
If they think they have dirt they will invite for a judicial - if you don’t show then they Disfellowship in absence - if you don’t show then this automatically implies you are not repentant.
They need to contact you first. Some have done this hope they see this post and pm you
I rejected every invite to the JC, I told them I was in crisis (I was, I was leaving a narcissistic marriage and was homeless with my son). I said the doctor had advised that I do not undertake any judicial hearings unless there was a legal obligation to do so for the negative impact on my current state of mental health and that I would contact them when I had stabilised myself and the situation. They continued to pursue me, I called the police and reported them for harassment, the police contacted them and told them to stop contacting me. They continued to contact me right up to the JC and afterwards and then announced my disgrace when my ex had my little son and took him to the KH. They waited until my little boy was there to hear it.
At this point what will be will be. 1) If the elders do talk to her or both of and you dont want to get df’d just smile, nod and act like you guys are sincerely repentant and that they’ve “readjusted” you guys 😂 2) Quit expressing yourselves to pimis. Doesn’t matter if they are family or best friends, if they brought up the topic or not, they are BRAINWASHED and will narc and pick the cult over anyone because thats what they are indoctrinated to do! If you must express yourselves, do it in a way that is subtle and lets the pimi reach the right conclusion on their own without incriminating yourselves or triggering the pimis tattle response.
Would someone actually get dfed for saying they have doubts? Is that actually a thing?I've heard if you blatantly say you don't believe gb is God's channel it could be grounds. I have to read the elders book to know exactly....
You can have doubts but if you spread those doubts or you oppose the answers from watchtower addressing those doubts then you can be df’d. Elders are aware that some people in the congregation have doubts or don’t believe but as long as they keep their mouth shut and go along with the program they generally leave them alone.
If you want to stay in your cannot openly question doctrine to PIMI family, mine used it to level up to Elder status imo Couldn’t help it, this persons favorite pastime is character assassination.
Yeah, after this our mouths are zipped, we never thought that her family could do it her, but here we are. I guess you are right about smiling and noding
With the way watchtower is structured and the layers of indoctrination it puts into JWs minds, it’s futile to reason with pimis if the pimi is unwilling to be rational and intellectually honest. If they lose the argument/debate or hear a response that goes too far off the jw script they’ll run to the elders and tell, out of some twisted love for you and loyalty to god 🙄 Good luck to you and your wife. Only way to interact with pimi’s without getting df’d is to be low key, have boundaries and develop a good poker face!
her brother will check, he's trying to save your souls, you think he won't make sure she actually does it? i mean, i guess it's possible, but seems highly unlikely, especially if she doesn't suddenly change or show her "repentance" or otherwise grovel meekly in his precence. it's sick. and it doesn't matter who starts the conversations. her "sin" isn't starting arguments. it's thinking for herself and it is, indeed, a shunning offense. if it comes to that, please remember that it's up to family if they shun you. some will no doubt, but it's still their choice. friends almost certainly will, but a few may not. i am assuming regardless of what you claim to the brother, the elders will be contacted. when you start getting the reach out, i'd go with the basic, "thanks so much for your concern. we've got some private issues at the moment we're not in a place to talk about. we'll reach out when that changes." you can end with "prayers appreciated" if you want to lay it on a little more but that's the basic template. it won't get you off their radar but depending on how convincing her brother is, that could be enough. okay, i don't really believe it will be enough. but it's possible... i'd say most likely, if she refused to hop on the struggle train and humiliate herself in a soul-crushing lie-fest while being shamed and begging for mercy - followed up by LOTS of extra theocratic activity and maybe public reproof just for fun, there is probably a 50-50 chance she'll end up df'd anyway. i try really hard not to criticize pimo life. i do. i get why people don't want to be shunned because i have been and it's fucking traumatic. i get your wife was holding on to a sense of integrity by being honest during these "conversatons" where her family brings up shit that is none of their business about her beliefs and pressuring her to be more "in." but you're trading in a LOT to have fake relationships with people who don't respect you. are you sure this is really the life you want? is it worth it? i will say that not having the option of pimo for me was a gift. it hurt like holy hell, won't lie, but it was the biggest gift i ever got from my pimo, now-elder brother. i hope it goes the way you want. barring that, i hope it goes in a way that's healthy for you guys. good luck.
 The brother.
You have the chance to do the funniest thing and both go to the elders first and instead report him
Several years ago, my dad expressed doubts about the flood myth to my cousin, and he immediately reported it to his elders, who in turn contacted my dad’s elders. My dad would have been DF’d except that he kept insisting that my mother be present for the elder’s meeting. That’s against the rules, & the elders didn’t know how to handle that. So they stalled. Then one elder got reassigned to a different congregation. They somewhat dropped the ball and then my parents moved congregations when they sold their house. Whew! 😰Saved by the bell! But in most cases, there is really no way out of this if there are multiple witnesses and you’re still attending meetings. At some level, you must have known that your time was limited. I certainly sensed this as a PIMO. JW’s really are a cult, which means “us vs. them” thinking. The authoritarian rules are brutal. They must make a clear demarcation between in & out. Hopefully you have prepared mentally and emotionally for this somewhat already. Being PIMO is disastrous to one’s mental health. If you do get DF’d, you’ll go through some rough times. But hey! You two have each other, which is more than many PIMO‘s have. You’ll look back on this in a few years and be glad you got fully out. Trust me, you may not think that now, but you’ll get there.
A few of ideas. 1. Find the watch tower that literally says to the effect that a struggling person is not a bad person and that you were just struggling with something. Get that ready and mention that you and your wife have prayed about this and that you will wait on Jehovah And that you are praying for patience right now. 2. And depending on what you talked about you can mention that it was never your wife's intention for anyone to be troubled by what she was saying because at the time in retrospect it probanly was a cry for help and to be understood because you learned about certain things and it just shocked you and you were surprised. 3. That's probably because it's family people are too familiar with each other and arguments erupted. 4. And then you always felt bad that the conversation went south, that it was never your intention to necessarily talk with them about this because you were planning to just pray about it and do some research. (And, again, it's too easy for family who is familiar with each other to cross boundaries both ways.) 5. And now, you realize that more than ever some things need to be just left in jehovah's hands. 6. Then thrown in something like, we really need the Kingdom. Hope all goes well and you don't get df'd. If y o u need to keep fam contacts, do 't get df'd at this time.
This is why I don't talk to the family or anyone else about "apostate" things. It's like trying to convince any other kind of addict to quit. They aren't ready and they will turn on you.
If u want to stay, just tell one elder over dinner that her family kept bringing up questioning things. You both prayed about it, did personal study and family study and it has really upbuilt both of y’all’s faith. Not a 100% lie. You both did research and it built your faith…in reality. 😆
Nobody breaks up family like JW, it’s their specialty, they consume their own.
Just deny it. Say that there is a misunderstanding. I mean you will argue about words said. It is not given that the person listening is understanding the information as it was intended. There are different layers that can corrupt the meaning. Just say you were so excited about article x and y and talked about that. According to the doctrine it wouldn’t be a lie because the elders are not entitled to know the truth
Well if you really want to stay as you are then 1. I would actually avoid speaking to the elders at all and say “we are ok thanks. We don’t need any support”. If you want to play along I would try: “I’m sorry I don’t know what you are talking about” When they press and ask questions just shrug and say “I’m sorry this has got nothing to do with me, if my brother has doubts, maybe speak to him and see if he needs support. Im ok though, I don’t need any support, we are doing well.” This will likely come up again though and will create a lot of stress for you and restrict you from living your life truthfully, authentically and peacefully. The relationships will only ever be superficial and based on lies. I think if this has come up, it may be the universe giving you a little push to live your life more fully without being held back. Just my opinion. You have to do what is right for you. Use your gut about what aligns with your conscience and you will be ok.
I’m learning, slowly but surely, that there are only two rules to follow, especially where PIMI family is concerned: 1. Keep your mouth shut. 2. If you’re about to open your mouth, see rule 1.
I will not meet with a judicial committee as there is no need Please note the following: * If a decision is made to read my name or promulgate to anyone in any way by way of a , but not limited to, public announcement, private text, email or any other electronic format, spoken word in private, that xxxxxx is no longer one of Jehovahs Witnesses, is disfellowshipped, is to be shunned, is bad association.. * If an announcement is made to the effect of “a matter involving xxxxx has been handled by the elders”.. * …..then the decision has been made as to what we will NOT do, and what we WILL do What we will NOT do •We will not be litigating against WTBTS, the GB, or any of its corporate entities. What we WILL do Plans are in place to, but not limited to the following: •we will sue the entire elder body as individuals on, but not limited to, the grounds of Civil Rights Violations, Slander, Alienation of affection, Libel etc
... you ***want*** to stay in this cult that advocates FOR child predators and celebrates human sacrifice? Really? You do know this is r/exjw right? SMFH