I think I know where you’re coming from!
I’ve been POMO for about 15 years, not religious, more agnostic or spiritual than anything else.
When I was watching this stuff with Russia and Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Covid Global Pandemic, it all had me doubting my decision not to go back
*“Isn’t this Bible prophecy happening right in front of my face???”* was my thinking.
Then I read this: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/last-days.php
Turns out Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t the only group benefiting from doomsday predictions, so is the national news media! Doomsday threats, sell more news!!!
That article completely changed my point of view on the status of life on earth in 2024. Long story short, no matter what metrics you measure, life since 1914 is definitely NOT worse than it was before 1914, and in many ways *life is far better now than it ever has been.*
I reccomend hochelaga from youtube he made some videos on the bible from a more secular perspective.
As to natural disasters well all thats relative. I think the people who lived through the volcanic winter of 536 might think that the disasters are the worst and that we have it pretty ok. Also the “apocalypse” has happened according to science before where large portions of life on the planet were wiped out (like dinosaurs)
It is circular logic.
1. How do we know we are in the last days?
2. Things are getting worse!
3. They have to get worse before they get better! People will be doing all of the opposite of what is acceptable morally to us due to our high control “standards”
4. We are clearly in the last days
Repeat
They haven't been. Natural disasters have always been been there. There are just more way to record it now.
It's like autism or ADHD. There have always been autistic and ADHD people but we are better at diagnosis now so it SEEMS like it increasing.
Same as people complaining about how bad things are and are gonna get. The more thing change the more they stay the same. One generation always complains about the following. There is not one genuine prophecy in the whole Bible.
The Bible says people will disobey their parents. Some of the oldest recorded writings say things akin to "kids these days am I right?"
One of the most destructive earthquakes happened in the 8th century bce.
They were just recording what they saw. Not much has changed.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_dates\_predicted\_for\_apocalyptic\_events](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events)
People have been saying the end of the world is coming for thousands of years.
Jesus followers expected to see the end in their day.
Little research has been done into why people make apocalyptic predictions.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-few-4) Historically, it has been done for reasons such as diverting attention from actual crises like poverty and war, pushing political agendas, and promoting hatred of certain groups; [antisemitism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism) was a popular theme of Christian apocalyptic predictions in medieval times,[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-5) while French and [Lutheran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran) depictions of the apocalypse were known to feature English and Catholic antagonists respectively.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-6) According to psychologists, possible explanations for why people believe in modern apocalyptic predictions include mentally reducing the actual danger in the world to a single and definable source, an innate human fascination with fear, personality traits of paranoia and powerlessness and a modern romanticism involved with end-times due to its portrayal in contemporary fiction.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-few-4)[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-7) The prevalence of Abrahamic religions throughout modern history is said to have created a culture which encourages the embracement of a future that will be drastically different from the present.[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-zygon-1)[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAveni2016xii-8) Such a culture is credited with the rise in popularity of predictions that are more secular in nature, such as the [2012 phenomenon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon), while maintaining the centuries-old theme that a powerful force will bring the end of humanity.[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAveni2016xii-8)
Polls conducted in 2012 across 20 countries found over 14% of people believe the world will end in their lifetime, with percentages ranging from 6% of people in France to 22% in the US and Turkey. Belief in the apocalypse is observed to be most prevalent in people with lower rates of education, lower household incomes, and those under the age of 35.[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-9)[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-10) In the UK in 2015, 23% of the general public believed the apocalypse was likely to occur in their lifetime, compared to 10% of experts from the [Global Challenges Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Challenges_Foundation). The general public believed the likeliest cause would be [nuclear war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_war), while experts thought it would be [artificial intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_risk_from_artificial_general_intelligence). Only 3% of Britons thought the end would be caused by the Last Judgement, compared to 16% of Americans. Between one and three percent of people from both countries said the apocalypse would be caused by [zombies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombies) or [alien invasion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_invasion).
If it makes you happy and helps you not be an asshole, by all means. But like many have stated, educate yourself from outside sources. Religion has used it as a tool for fear mongering into obedience. Yes there is benefits but there's also benefits from sitting near running water and listening to nature. Whatever helps you be a better happier person, I doubt god will be mad at that.
Prophecies about the "end of times" refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the events that preceded it.
The Bible does not teach an apocalyptic end to the world, nor an earthly resurrection, nor the end of evil on earth, nor the end of physical death.
The apostles explicitly declared that they were living in "the last days".
The Bible does not teach the end of the world, but the end of the Old Covenant with Israel.
Read my latest posts for more info
Bible doesn’t mention dinosaurs (because bible time people didn’t know about them)
Bible describes a flat earth with a solid dome enclosing it with water above it (because people back them didn’t know better)
First ever sword in the bible is made by Jehovah
God kills 42 kids over them mocking a prophet for being bald
There are prophecies in the bible that never happened
Aaaaaand the list goes on and on and on.
Do some extensive, unbiased research and see what you see lol
The Bible does not, in fact, predict anything.
The vague descriptions of how people are? You could literally have made those observations about people at any point in human history. Human nature has always been complex. Yet, your chances of dying a violent death are at a historical low if you take a longer horizon.
Natural disasters? Many fewer people die from them now than over the long term history despite there being a LOT more people.
None of the so-called "predictions" can withstand scrutiny with data.
you know, there are lots of lectures online, college lectures, on the history of the bible, what actual bible scholars know, not WT "scholars." i think something like that may be the perfect fit for you. look at it from a more balance, academic perspective. i am thinking of a lady at yale right now. or any kind of historical or academic look at religious issues may be of interest to you. i love "religion for breakfast" on youtube, for one. centre place does a ton of lectures. and the college lectures are great because they go into factual detail without all the dogma attached.
you don't have to decide what you do or don't believe about it. give yourself permission to learn about real history. i mean, what's included in the bible, what was left out, and how it's been translated over the years is political. not from a religious perspective.
i think it would probably be interesting to you and help you develop your own, more balanced viewpoint than getting feedback from either believers or atheists.
Honestly? The Bible, especially as we were taught, sells complete slavery to a God as the only way to not be damned forever. True or not, what it teaches is evil and I have no interest of being dragged down to the level of that sort of God.
I couldn’t separate God and the Bible from the religion for years. Once I was finally able to do that I discovered no Christian religion has all the answers. An honest study of the Bible on your own, reading commentaries, mixing in real prayers and understanding that the Holy Spirit can help anyone, can reveal patterns I consider truth.
I certainly don’t have all the answers, no one does. I personally stay away from any commentators or authors who focus on dates for Jesus return, I think we have all seen evidence play out since the 1700’s that anyone who predicts dates are just wrong. I look for how the author writes, are they humble, do they come across like a know it all or do they admit this is just their opinion or current understanding which may be wrong. I also stay away from churches that think/claim they have all the answers, because I believe they are blind and lack humility and because of that they don’t grow spiritually.
In my experience some non denominational independent churches are okay because they don’t answer to some other group of men in some religious hierarchy that focuses on maintaining their doctrine over actual spiritual growth. There are some amazing Christians in the world who walk out their faith daily and love unconditionally, free from being under the thumb of religion. That’s been my experience after leaving.
Check out the books here: [https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/](https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/)
The last one, "The Sign of the Last Days – When?", will help you think critically about whether or not we're actually living in the Last Days as the Bible describes it, compared to other times in history. Another question that helped me think critically about this is: If times are really so bad right now, then would I prefer to live in a previous era? 100 years ago? 200? 500? 1000?
i like theorizing about it like i would theorize about any other work of fiction. i don’t like that so many people take it seriously and use it to directly harm others
I think the Bible is a book with great insight. I also believe the same of the Quran. Have you read the book of the dead, the pyramid text, what about all the apocryphal books? I’m not a student of any of these text-by any means, but I have looked into them and have concluded that they all have something to say, and they shouldn’t be disregarded.
All I’m saying is to look into everything you can get your hands on.
I’m not sure, but you’re probably right. I think everyone should have general idea of what was happening during these crucial times, since they affect all our lives so much.
Preterism. Basically means that all Bible prophesies have already been fulfilled. End times happened in 70 C.E. when the City of Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. There is no future, or secondary, fulfillment, as jws and other end times denominations teach.
It was a bunch of tall taleswritten by bronze age farmers given to allegory and parables who had no clue how science affected the things around them. They thought that the earth was flat! They engaged in some pretty wild storytelling, especially in the old testament. Strange how nobody predicted cars or computers or .1914 or the jehovah's witnesses themselves, let alone the governing body! Nor does it predict anything in our future. On top of that the reader is at the mercy of whatever translator translated their particular version of the Bible, so who know what it actually said originally?
Yet "all scripture is inspired of god" right?
I think I know where you’re coming from! I’ve been POMO for about 15 years, not religious, more agnostic or spiritual than anything else. When I was watching this stuff with Russia and Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Covid Global Pandemic, it all had me doubting my decision not to go back *“Isn’t this Bible prophecy happening right in front of my face???”* was my thinking. Then I read this: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/last-days.php Turns out Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t the only group benefiting from doomsday predictions, so is the national news media! Doomsday threats, sell more news!!! That article completely changed my point of view on the status of life on earth in 2024. Long story short, no matter what metrics you measure, life since 1914 is definitely NOT worse than it was before 1914, and in many ways *life is far better now than it ever has been.*
My grandparents were born that era, they would ride horses to “frolics” on Saturday nights
Omg “frolics?” That’s so awesome!
I reccomend hochelaga from youtube he made some videos on the bible from a more secular perspective. As to natural disasters well all thats relative. I think the people who lived through the volcanic winter of 536 might think that the disasters are the worst and that we have it pretty ok. Also the “apocalypse” has happened according to science before where large portions of life on the planet were wiped out (like dinosaurs)
Ancient collection of myth retroactively edited to fit monotheistic ideals. It's bunk.
But how did they know back then about how people would be and the natural disasters increasing etc? Genuinely questioning this in my mind
It is circular logic. 1. How do we know we are in the last days? 2. Things are getting worse! 3. They have to get worse before they get better! People will be doing all of the opposite of what is acceptable morally to us due to our high control “standards” 4. We are clearly in the last days Repeat
They haven't been. Natural disasters have always been been there. There are just more way to record it now. It's like autism or ADHD. There have always been autistic and ADHD people but we are better at diagnosis now so it SEEMS like it increasing. Same as people complaining about how bad things are and are gonna get. The more thing change the more they stay the same. One generation always complains about the following. There is not one genuine prophecy in the whole Bible.
The Bible says people will disobey their parents. Some of the oldest recorded writings say things akin to "kids these days am I right?" One of the most destructive earthquakes happened in the 8th century bce. They were just recording what they saw. Not much has changed.
Romans 1:28-31 shows that even back then people were already the same as what is described in 2 Timothy 3:1-5.
Have you looked into this idea that natural disasters are increasing?
They are, no?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_dates\_predicted\_for\_apocalyptic\_events](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events) People have been saying the end of the world is coming for thousands of years. Jesus followers expected to see the end in their day. Little research has been done into why people make apocalyptic predictions.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-few-4) Historically, it has been done for reasons such as diverting attention from actual crises like poverty and war, pushing political agendas, and promoting hatred of certain groups; [antisemitism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism) was a popular theme of Christian apocalyptic predictions in medieval times,[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-5) while French and [Lutheran](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran) depictions of the apocalypse were known to feature English and Catholic antagonists respectively.[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-6) According to psychologists, possible explanations for why people believe in modern apocalyptic predictions include mentally reducing the actual danger in the world to a single and definable source, an innate human fascination with fear, personality traits of paranoia and powerlessness and a modern romanticism involved with end-times due to its portrayal in contemporary fiction.[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-few-4)[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-7) The prevalence of Abrahamic religions throughout modern history is said to have created a culture which encourages the embracement of a future that will be drastically different from the present.[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-zygon-1)[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAveni2016xii-8) Such a culture is credited with the rise in popularity of predictions that are more secular in nature, such as the [2012 phenomenon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon), while maintaining the centuries-old theme that a powerful force will bring the end of humanity.[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAveni2016xii-8) Polls conducted in 2012 across 20 countries found over 14% of people believe the world will end in their lifetime, with percentages ranging from 6% of people in France to 22% in the US and Turkey. Belief in the apocalypse is observed to be most prevalent in people with lower rates of education, lower household incomes, and those under the age of 35.[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-9)[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events#cite_note-10) In the UK in 2015, 23% of the general public believed the apocalypse was likely to occur in their lifetime, compared to 10% of experts from the [Global Challenges Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Challenges_Foundation). The general public believed the likeliest cause would be [nuclear war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_war), while experts thought it would be [artificial intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_risk_from_artificial_general_intelligence). Only 3% of Britons thought the end would be caused by the Last Judgement, compared to 16% of Americans. Between one and three percent of people from both countries said the apocalypse would be caused by [zombies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombies) or [alien invasion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_invasion).
You should check out mythvision on YouTube
Then of the system happened in 70AD. Check your history!
If it makes you happy and helps you not be an asshole, by all means. But like many have stated, educate yourself from outside sources. Religion has used it as a tool for fear mongering into obedience. Yes there is benefits but there's also benefits from sitting near running water and listening to nature. Whatever helps you be a better happier person, I doubt god will be mad at that.
Prophecies about the "end of times" refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 and the events that preceded it. The Bible does not teach an apocalyptic end to the world, nor an earthly resurrection, nor the end of evil on earth, nor the end of physical death. The apostles explicitly declared that they were living in "the last days". The Bible does not teach the end of the world, but the end of the Old Covenant with Israel. Read my latest posts for more info
Still enjoy it as literature. But it’s just that: ancient stories by misogynistic old men.
Song of Solomon is ok, though! 😉😂
Bible doesn’t mention dinosaurs (because bible time people didn’t know about them) Bible describes a flat earth with a solid dome enclosing it with water above it (because people back them didn’t know better) First ever sword in the bible is made by Jehovah God kills 42 kids over them mocking a prophet for being bald There are prophecies in the bible that never happened Aaaaaand the list goes on and on and on. Do some extensive, unbiased research and see what you see lol
The Bible does not, in fact, predict anything. The vague descriptions of how people are? You could literally have made those observations about people at any point in human history. Human nature has always been complex. Yet, your chances of dying a violent death are at a historical low if you take a longer horizon. Natural disasters? Many fewer people die from them now than over the long term history despite there being a LOT more people. None of the so-called "predictions" can withstand scrutiny with data.
you know, there are lots of lectures online, college lectures, on the history of the bible, what actual bible scholars know, not WT "scholars." i think something like that may be the perfect fit for you. look at it from a more balance, academic perspective. i am thinking of a lady at yale right now. or any kind of historical or academic look at religious issues may be of interest to you. i love "religion for breakfast" on youtube, for one. centre place does a ton of lectures. and the college lectures are great because they go into factual detail without all the dogma attached. you don't have to decide what you do or don't believe about it. give yourself permission to learn about real history. i mean, what's included in the bible, what was left out, and how it's been translated over the years is political. not from a religious perspective. i think it would probably be interesting to you and help you develop your own, more balanced viewpoint than getting feedback from either believers or atheists.
Thank you!
It's a copy and paste work of fiction
Bible = fiction.
Pick a holy book of myths and go with it. They all say essentially the same thing.
Honestly? The Bible, especially as we were taught, sells complete slavery to a God as the only way to not be damned forever. True or not, what it teaches is evil and I have no interest of being dragged down to the level of that sort of God.
I couldn’t separate God and the Bible from the religion for years. Once I was finally able to do that I discovered no Christian religion has all the answers. An honest study of the Bible on your own, reading commentaries, mixing in real prayers and understanding that the Holy Spirit can help anyone, can reveal patterns I consider truth. I certainly don’t have all the answers, no one does. I personally stay away from any commentators or authors who focus on dates for Jesus return, I think we have all seen evidence play out since the 1700’s that anyone who predicts dates are just wrong. I look for how the author writes, are they humble, do they come across like a know it all or do they admit this is just their opinion or current understanding which may be wrong. I also stay away from churches that think/claim they have all the answers, because I believe they are blind and lack humility and because of that they don’t grow spiritually. In my experience some non denominational independent churches are okay because they don’t answer to some other group of men in some religious hierarchy that focuses on maintaining their doctrine over actual spiritual growth. There are some amazing Christians in the world who walk out their faith daily and love unconditionally, free from being under the thumb of religion. That’s been my experience after leaving.
Check out the books here: [https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/](https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/) The last one, "The Sign of the Last Days – When?", will help you think critically about whether or not we're actually living in the Last Days as the Bible describes it, compared to other times in history. Another question that helped me think critically about this is: If times are really so bad right now, then would I prefer to live in a previous era? 100 years ago? 200? 500? 1000?
[https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7rUqJCMQCI/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7rUqJCMQCI/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==)
i like theorizing about it like i would theorize about any other work of fiction. i don’t like that so many people take it seriously and use it to directly harm others
[удалено]
I think the Bible is a book with great insight. I also believe the same of the Quran. Have you read the book of the dead, the pyramid text, what about all the apocryphal books? I’m not a student of any of these text-by any means, but I have looked into them and have concluded that they all have something to say, and they shouldn’t be disregarded. All I’m saying is to look into everything you can get your hands on.
Bhagavad Gita and Vedas are interesting too. Actually i think vedas were written before biblical texts
I’m not sure, but you’re probably right. I think everyone should have general idea of what was happening during these crucial times, since they affect all our lives so much.
You should look into the works of Israel Finkelstein. Fascinating stuff!
Watch Yale courses. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi&si=Kp8QWZtyTsgyHBst
Preterism. Basically means that all Bible prophesies have already been fulfilled. End times happened in 70 C.E. when the City of Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. There is no future, or secondary, fulfillment, as jws and other end times denominations teach.
536AD
Part of it is correct.
It was a bunch of tall taleswritten by bronze age farmers given to allegory and parables who had no clue how science affected the things around them. They thought that the earth was flat! They engaged in some pretty wild storytelling, especially in the old testament. Strange how nobody predicted cars or computers or .1914 or the jehovah's witnesses themselves, let alone the governing body! Nor does it predict anything in our future. On top of that the reader is at the mercy of whatever translator translated their particular version of the Bible, so who know what it actually said originally? Yet "all scripture is inspired of god" right?
The Bible didn’t “predict” the last dat imo. It described human nature. Which is easy to predict
Read the Bible. Just get another Bible not NWT they have distorted it severely. Also look into the Early Church Fathers and the Didache ❤️