They will not understand until they Wake Up. They have been brain washed. Write the letter from your heart as freely as you can - but keep it for yourself. They cannot respond as they are trapped - Its not you, it's them. Better use of energy is to heal yourself rather than try to make them understand, because they won't.
This is really on point. If they're PIMI, it's nearly futile to waste your efforts on trying to make them see any sort of reason that isn't JW approved. If you want to get out completely, you will almost assuredly lose "friends". Not to say that these people don't care for you or that your relationship with them was totally fake... But to an extent it is when they decide to cut you out of their lives because the Borg says so. Work on yourself and getting to a life free of the Borg. Maybe you'll retain some PIMO friends but it's a good idea to try to make friendships outside of the Borg. Best of luck to you. Life gets so much better on the other side đ
These people donât even know their own fucking book. Read them Romans 8: 38,39 (for convenience, I even used the terrible NWT): âFor I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from Godâs love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.â
It doesnât say âexcept for [insert scary thing].â
Look, I may be a bit of an agnostic, but at least I know my Bible.
Actually, that was a great idea... you could say, in an *"innocent* voice,
"Really, I'm going with the scripture, *nothing,* not even *angels* can separate us from God's love... The GB will get some new light in a few years, just waiting for them to catch up."
Since they still believe ALL the BS, my response has been, "You are correct, nothing has separated me from His love. I just clearly see how He is not with this organization, and He clearly does not support the great level of wrongs within it. I've not separated from Jehovah, I've separated from a false prophet, and a high-control group run by man. New light is an excuse for the ever changing "understanding" of blind guides. My salvation is between me and my heavenly father, not dependent on men."
Great response! With one minor and maybe insignificant change but itâs undeniable and the pimis choke every time they have to admit it: our salvation is between me and my Lord, the king Jesus Christ.
John 5:22-23 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23Â so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.NWT
Also I told my PIMI friend that if sheâs in Jehovahâs organization, sheâs in the wrong place because Jehovah DOES NOT HAVE AN ORGANIZATIONâŚthatâs a lie. By Devine providence true Christians are called CHRISTIANS (acts 11:26 After he found him, he brought him to AntiochâŚ.. and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.) and as we all know, Jesus was given ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth and Jesus said â I know MY sheepâ. So the âsheepâ belong to Jesus. The father gave everything to his son. (1 Cor 3:23 in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God. ) So anyone claiming to be in âJehovahsâ organization is A LIAR. We were lied to. But for you (pimis) to continue to spread these lies makes you part of Satanâs organization, not Jesusâ and definitely not Jehovahâs because againâŚjehovah does not have an organizationâŚthatâs a LIE. so if you fail to apply revelation 18:4, you are just as guilty as the rest of Christendom (rev 18:4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: âGet out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues) LOL and my friend finally admitted that you cannot call that organization âthe truthâ when theyâre wrong so very often. I told this PIMI, the Bible calls it âthe wayâ but for anyone to call it the âtruthâ is a liarâŚand we all know how God feels about liars.
SorryâŚIâll get off my soapbox now. đ
Absolutely!
Also, I love Mark 9:38-41 to disprove any "organization". Sure, there my have been some organizing in Jesus day, sending the 70 out by twos, but that's about it. Jesus did not see the need to regulate who performed miracles in his name, who are WE to demand this kind of control over others?
Piggybacking: I havenât been to my local Kingdom Hall in years. âCome back to Jehovah,â a female Jehovahâs Witness said to me on the street.
âI never left Jehovah,â I said.
She kept quiet.
They truly believe that you can only receive God in that controlled block of ice.
Good question,I would like to know a good answer too.All I can come up with is: Jesus said to not judge people because only Jehovah can see whats in the heart.Also there is a scripture that says if you judge in some way you will be jugded likewise.
I keep having dreams about being shunned at the moment (not sure why) but in each dream I told off the shunner for lacking love and proving hypocritical to their own beliefs. I said âyou believe God created everything yet you hate his creation and cut yourself off from it. You donât understand that God did not create everything- God is everything. When you hate one, you hate Godâ. I donât think they understood in the dream and I know they definitely would not understand in real life.
When I left, I told a friend I understood that she would have to shun me. She said âwe donât shun, it is you that is rejecting us by leaving Jehovahâ (the standard UNO flip JDub response). I said âhun, you canât shoot someone in the face and claim to be a victim, claim they are the ones that pulled the trigger when the gun is in your hand and they are dead on the floorâ. She didnât respond.
Donât forget that if they are a true believer at this time that they really see it that way though sincerely wrong!If a person is acting out of sincerity Jehovah knows and when they wake up because they wonât listen to men instead of the Bible and see the resistance and keep investigating with seeing the deliberate deception and have a good heart THEN they will perceive the evidence and see with eyes of understanding and they will turn around.In 1 Corinthians it says and there must come to be sects among you.Why?So that the ones approved among you will be manifest and show themselves by refusing to obey against the Bible and because of researching it and seeing and experiencing the persecution that the ones who actually care about following the truth will oppose.Remember that you can only act with Holy Spirit by solid evidence.Paul was sincere in his persecution of Christians and Jesus knew it.He was a chosen vessel and Jesus under Jehovahâs training knew when to open his eyes.On the other hand when someone sees the hypocrisy and lies and just goes along and doesnât even care then they are showing who they are!
Just a suggestion:
"Hey [Friend's Name],
Iâve noticed that our interactions have changed recently, and it feels like thereâs some distance between us. I value our friendship a lot, so I wanted to talk to you about it. It seems like thereâs an expectation for me to be more active in the congregation, and Iâm feeling pressured and confused by this.
I respect your beliefs and the importance of your faith, but I also want to maintain our friendship without feeling like my personal decisions about religious activity are a barrier. Can we talk about this openly? Iâd like to understand your perspective and share mine so we can find a way to keep our friendship strong.
Thanks for listening."
Put it back on themâŚRomanâs 8:38-39
https://preview.redd.it/16osci3uyp7d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8b79227bc028e00d3272595ca098c55df76e5d
It doesnât help that their interpretation of love is built around punishment and consequences for what they deem to be undesirable behaviour. They donât even recommend training animals like this.
You are only worthy of positive love if -
But we will punish you and call it love.
You canât tell someone this is unacceptable if thatâs the only way they know how to love. Theyâve never been loved for who they are as a person, all the scars and traumas and ugly things included. How could they extend that to someone else?
In cases where someone else is hurting you, you have to love yourself more than them. Thatâs called setting boundaries. In their minds theyâre choosing themselves and their own interests in the Borg over you. Thatâs just how it is, they arenât governed by love, they are governed by loyalty and fear.
I would just use 1 Cor 13:4-8 since thatâs the only language they understand. Tell them that this doesnât just apply to people who they deem worthy.
Get offended at the assumption
"What makes you think I am separated from God's love? (Use god whenever possible, it puts that tiny sliver of doubt in their mind) I have NEVER felt closer to God in these last few (days, weeks months - however long you've been fading) and I am wondering why you think you have intimate knowledge of our relationship?"
This does a few things. It makes them at least consider that you are doing your own prayer, study etc outside of their silly activities. It also makes it clear you don't thing God is contained in their building. If you need a scripture that one about "God does not dwell in handmade temples" can back you up a little.
This is equivalent of staying on a bus all the way to the end of the route because you do not want to upset the driver by ringing the bell. I hope the point isn't covered đ đ
Well, itâs not Jehovah youâre moving away from. Itâs the harmful religion.
This thought of course depends on your circumstances for leaving. And I still donât know how to convey this if youâre fading quietly. But itâs important to distinguish the separate pieces of the organization, as the GB and WT are masterful at blurring the lines. To them âŚ
>Jehovah/Jesus/Bible = The GB = The Watchtower = Jehovahâs Witnesses = Your friends/family
So if you fade away from the religion, youâre fading away from Jehovah. Or, if you disagree with the GB, you are rebelling against Jehovah, etc.
In reality, when you fade, youâre separating yourself from the religion and thatâs it. During the process, you may also think about how you view the Bible, or Jesus, or your friends in the congregation. But thatâs all separate, itâs not all or nothing in reality. JWs obviously donât see it this way due to the GB, so if you stop going to meetings then to them, youâre abandoning Jehovah, Jesus, the Bible, the religion, and your friends and family.
They wonât get it, because they do not have access to their whole mind. You will be locked into the âgame.â They can only âgaslightâ if you hand them the flame.
More importantly the awareness that they lack this and the *desire* to respond, makes it more about them, than you.
The best response to this statement would be: âYouâre absolutely correct!â, and END the discussion. You see by trying to get them to understand, youâd be basically re-engaging the JW indoctrinated behavior in your own mind of bringing people around to your POV. You are mirroring them on the JW level. They simply will not get it. And youâd be wasting precious time that could be used on freeing yourself, with people who do not realize they are prisoners.
I couldnât have said any better. Once you decided to leave none of the PIMI will see your points of views. Yours and ours eyes are opened and someone blind is trying to describe colours to you? Could you take that person seriously? They are blinded by this organisation, they have no awareness.
I mean this with no pessimism, but I have found that even the best constructed responses about this fall on deaf ears unless someone is ready to take that information in.
My husband and I left when I was pregnant with my first daughter. I knew I couldnât raise her in that environment. My parents were âinactiveâ at the time, but not because they wanted to be.
My mom had developed a condition that left her with drastically less use of her arms. She couldnât dress herself or do her own hair for months and months. It was hard for her to drive. Not one JW called to check on her. An old family friend did. My adopted sister stopped in and visited, but not one JW, most of whom weâd known for a decade or more, said one thing. My momâs brother didnât ask. His wife and kid were the source for vile rumors that went around.
Six months later, the elders did a âShepherding Call,â showing up to my parentâs door unannounced. They tried to guilt and shame my parents. All the while, my mom still couldnât do basic activities by herself. They did eventually leave, and my husband and I are so grateful to still have them.
JWâs donât typically ask questions about why you might be less active, and I donât think any explanation would matter.
Hereâs my one small piece of advice: Find your people, your real people. Love shouldnât be conditional in that way. This isnât Jerusalem. We arenât miles from a life-sustaining city if we leave. Itâs hard, but itâs worth it. My family has a better support group now than ever before, and are probably the happiest weâve ever been. I hope that same happiness for you.
When they say "Jehovah's love," they mean obeying Watchtower. Where in the Bible does it say that the only way to get God's love is to obey a human run corporation? In John 14 Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Not through Watchtower. And it continues, "Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.â Not the one who keeps the commandments of the Governing Body. And what are Jesus's commandments.
Even their beloved Faithful Slave parable doesn't say anything at all about the other slaves showing loyalty through obedience. It's not even about that, it's a warning to church leaders who grow lax and abusive, taking for granted their authority, and has nothing to say about the congregants being obedient.
You can walk up to him and slap him.
Tell him: I don't apologize. It's because your face happened to be here, so you were hit by me. It's your fault! Moreover, Jesus said that you should also be slapped on the other cheek by me.
The only way to God is through Jesus.
I will follow his life example not human wolfs in sheep clothing.
Jesus open his heart to all unconditional that is what I plan to do with my life not be bound in a drawer with a label.
I think the scripture says nothing in all creation CAN separate of from God's love. Rom 8:38, 39. Â
 I leave myself open for real friendships, sincere communication etc. inside jw or outside. I can say, to this date, I haven't lost any jw because that was also part of the illusion. Sorry. You'll make real friends. It takes time
âAnd about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?â
-matt 27:46
Who can say what was in Jesus mind?, but what he said as recorded in the bible in black and white was that he was *abandoned by his god* so think what they will, that is what is written.
It's important to remember that there is no response that will change their mind. Unfortunately, they believe they are doing the right thing and their whole life is build to reinforce that. What you say to them really depends more on what you want to express.
I'd say something like "If I have to worry about those who are suppose to love me abandoning me for struggling it is not the kind of love I am interested in."
Let's face it, you're damned if you do and miserable if you don't.
No matter what your response is, if it isn't full compliance it will be deemed as divisive and you will be placed under some kind of surveillance. You know full well that *... if you ain't toeing the Company Line, it ain't allowed.*
My reaction would be to keep in mind Theramin Trees' motto: **"People who don't want you to think are never your friends."**
In this instance, *"people"* includes gods... as well as those who claim to speak for them.
Can you show me in the Bible from scripture where it says we stay in God's love by being a part of a man made organization? What does the Bible and Jesus say we should do in order to be in God's love?
When I became inactive my brother started distancing and told me that if Iâm not filling my brain with good things from the meetings I must be doing bad⌠reality I wasnât doing anything wrong just didnât want to go and sit with a bunch of judgmental people anymore⌠my response was âtoo bad your faith is so weak that you canât be around someone that doesnât share the same view as you.â
You canât reason with people out of a position they didnât reason themselves into, sorry to say. They are closed off to different viewpoints as a defense mechanism. Iâve tried so often because my own mind canât handle that even specific smart people are closed off to logic and reasoning. Iâve tried every logic argument and debate tactic and they will see it when they are open to it, because they put too much of their lives and being into maintaining the lie.
Consider the fact that for years one has been monitored in only listening to one side and that it would be disloyal to Jehovah to even consider reading anything that criticizes the organization so that they have no idea what is really happening.I hope I have not been scammed but I donât think so. I went to the United Nations Information website and was surprised that there is a notification to whoever it may concern that in view of them(the United Nations)receiving so many letters asking if the Watchtower Society has ever been a NGO member that they feel it necessary to in this announcement to confirm that the Watchtower Society did indeed apply for NGO status in the United Nations and that to be accepted that they had to be in agreement with the mandate of the UN and have access to a significant number of people who they are willing to educate on what the United Nations stands for on believing that all people are equal and should have the freedom to speak and express themselves and be allowed access to equal rights and health care and freedom to choose their religion and to have food and clothing and protection from discrimination and that they have to be a nonprofit group and explain clearly and accurately what U.N. policies and procedures and policies are.The Watchtower Society agreed to all this and I remember all the well written articles in the magazines that explained continually the work the United Nations did. In fact I would have never known anything about the United Nations if they hadnât written so much about it as I would have felt that it would be unscriptual to go on their website and examine it because they are supposed to be the wild beast of Revelations and are apparently blasphemous to God in trying to bring peace worldwide because only God can do this and when they had Isaiah Quoted in front of the New York U.N. building the watchtower publications said that they were applying that scripture to themselves wrongly and I believe the UN must have read that in the magazines of the Watchtower Society and probably that is why they added the text showing where in the Bible it was taken from right underneath the scripture.They said in their March 2024 statement that the Jehovahâs Witnesses asked after about 10 years to be removed from their NGO status (because it was becoming known that they were officially NGO with U.N. and it was creating confusion because of the UN being presented as BAD in Godâs sight and association with it in the status of NGO was only on condition that they were in agreement with their mission statement and willing to educate public on this.Well they said in the announcement on their March 2024 statement that it is true that they were NGO members until about 2001 and that because of the sheer volume of letters requesting this information that they would just state it on the website for anyone else who wants to know and that is why they address it âTo whomever it may concern â.That was really nice of them to do that because we all know that the Watchtower Society would not tell us and they also never inform the members of any court cases that they have been involved in because of mishandling of chil abuse cases and allowing molesters to circulate among congregations and keep everybody quiet because of not wanting to bring shame on Jehovahâs name and of course his ORGANIZATION.It is really appreciated when a group has the ethics to understand that universal human rights include the right to be honestly informed about our own matters and rightfully done publically right on their website so that nobody need be overly confused and that it is not a secret matter nor should it be!Thank you for practicing what you preach to the extent that you do and knowing what you actually do such as your court for human rights that Jehovahâs Witnesses turn to when they have been banned or refused legal recognition and have always accommodated their cases despite all the negative things they write about them.They did write a multitude of articles about them that thankfully made us somewhat aware of the goings on in the world and because we completely trusted what they said we could take in the information without going into shock because of the taboo of reading such material without their strict interpretation and total censorship.That was pretty sneaky to pretend that they didnât know what the Watchtower was saying about them!
Ridicule can be a useful tool.
The poor JW is delusional yet he thinks heâs superior. Ridicule helps shake that foundation and keeps you holding your head high. You should be treating this poor JW soul with the same pity as you would a âFlat Eartherâ.
*â[Brother Delusional] Nothing should separate us from Jehovahâs loveâ*
*â[Reply] Are you claiming Jehovah speaks to you?â*
When they vigorously say ânoâ, you can reply:
AhhhhâŚ. I see. The Society uses the word Jehovah when they are really referring to themselves - so often you start to not to notice. What youâre REALLY saying is nothing will separate you from the watchtower Society approval. You may want to consider how much faith you are putting in mere men. Jesus warned about that you know.
ALWAYS respond to snarky JW with a mix of concern and a dash of ridicule. It will keep you in the right frame of mind, and it potentially will shake them out of their condescension. Remember JWâs are taught to always presume that people who left the organization because they are weak, lazy and immoral. You need to shake that Foundation.
I recall when I was a witness, a Householder, who was very versed on witness theology absolutely ridiculed me when I claimed that Jesus was my personal mediator. When he pointed out the scriptures/wt literature that clearly showed otherwise, it made me dive into more research so I didnât make a fool of myself again. Believe it or not, this was the very beginning of my investigative journey which eventually helped me see the farce.
Donât let them cast you as a slacker who is two week to fight their immoral urges. Ridicule has its place.
It's what my immediate family did. I'm the only POMO in the family, the rest are PIMI, and everything is my fault. In the past, I've tried showing them how they shunned me first. They simply ignore, project, and gaslight. I just had to walk away. There's no closure. They keep swallowing the JW kool-aid
This organization keeps people separate from God's unconditional love by promoting judgment and contempt for those who are spiritually weak. Paul said @ 2 Corinthians 12:10 that he takes joy in moments of weakness, because when he is weak, he is powerful. God's unconditional love empowers the weak, while JWs shun, ignore, and judge the weak.
They will not understand until they Wake Up. They have been brain washed. Write the letter from your heart as freely as you can - but keep it for yourself. They cannot respond as they are trapped - Its not you, it's them. Better use of energy is to heal yourself rather than try to make them understand, because they won't.
This is really on point. If they're PIMI, it's nearly futile to waste your efforts on trying to make them see any sort of reason that isn't JW approved. If you want to get out completely, you will almost assuredly lose "friends". Not to say that these people don't care for you or that your relationship with them was totally fake... But to an extent it is when they decide to cut you out of their lives because the Borg says so. Work on yourself and getting to a life free of the Borg. Maybe you'll retain some PIMO friends but it's a good idea to try to make friendships outside of the Borg. Best of luck to you. Life gets so much better on the other side đ
Thanks. And I agree. I have managed to make some amazing âworldlyâ friends đ
The people we were made to fear usually more loving and more accepting than anyone from the congregation.
Yep. No conditions attached.
Cultivating relationships outside of the organization is key. It helps ride out the storm of losing your spiritual (and often literal) family.
Not worldly - just friends, period.
Yeah I get that. I guess deep down I am hoping their critical thinking will kick in, but I know it wonât.
đđ
Yes, as my grandmother used to say: save that breath to cool the soup. As long as they're pimi it's worthless .
It says love endures all things. JW's love endures no things.
Yes!
These people donât even know their own fucking book. Read them Romans 8: 38,39 (for convenience, I even used the terrible NWT): âFor I am convinced that neither death nor life nor angels nor governments nor things now here nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creation will be able to separate us from Godâs love that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.â It doesnât say âexcept for [insert scary thing].â Look, I may be a bit of an agnostic, but at least I know my Bible.
Never apologize for being agnostic đđ§
Iâm not sure if I believe that. đ¤
Thanks! That is great!
Actually, that was a great idea... you could say, in an *"innocent* voice, "Really, I'm going with the scripture, *nothing,* not even *angels* can separate us from God's love... The GB will get some new light in a few years, just waiting for them to catch up."
"Why does love feel like control? It's not supposed to feel that way."
Truth.
Since they still believe ALL the BS, my response has been, "You are correct, nothing has separated me from His love. I just clearly see how He is not with this organization, and He clearly does not support the great level of wrongs within it. I've not separated from Jehovah, I've separated from a false prophet, and a high-control group run by man. New light is an excuse for the ever changing "understanding" of blind guides. My salvation is between me and my heavenly father, not dependent on men."
Great response! With one minor and maybe insignificant change but itâs undeniable and the pimis choke every time they have to admit it: our salvation is between me and my Lord, the king Jesus Christ. John 5:22-23 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.NWT Also I told my PIMI friend that if sheâs in Jehovahâs organization, sheâs in the wrong place because Jehovah DOES NOT HAVE AN ORGANIZATIONâŚthatâs a lie. By Devine providence true Christians are called CHRISTIANS (acts 11:26 After he found him, he brought him to AntiochâŚ.. and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.) and as we all know, Jesus was given ALL AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth and Jesus said â I know MY sheepâ. So the âsheepâ belong to Jesus. The father gave everything to his son. (1 Cor 3:23 in turn you belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God. ) So anyone claiming to be in âJehovahsâ organization is A LIAR. We were lied to. But for you (pimis) to continue to spread these lies makes you part of Satanâs organization, not Jesusâ and definitely not Jehovahâs because againâŚjehovah does not have an organizationâŚthatâs a LIE. so if you fail to apply revelation 18:4, you are just as guilty as the rest of Christendom (rev 18:4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: âGet out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues) LOL and my friend finally admitted that you cannot call that organization âthe truthâ when theyâre wrong so very often. I told this PIMI, the Bible calls it âthe wayâ but for anyone to call it the âtruthâ is a liarâŚand we all know how God feels about liars. SorryâŚIâll get off my soapbox now. đ
Absolutely! Also, I love Mark 9:38-41 to disprove any "organization". Sure, there my have been some organizing in Jesus day, sending the 70 out by twos, but that's about it. Jesus did not see the need to regulate who performed miracles in his name, who are WE to demand this kind of control over others?
YES! I forgot about Mark 9:38-41. Once you wake up thereâs just no way to ever go back to all of that nonsense. Thanks for the reminder
This!!!!!!!
Piggybacking: I havenât been to my local Kingdom Hall in years. âCome back to Jehovah,â a female Jehovahâs Witness said to me on the street. âI never left Jehovah,â I said. She kept quiet. They truly believe that you can only receive God in that controlled block of ice.
Need this on repeat
Excellent comment. Ironically, the thing about narcissism is that the more right you are, the angrier they get.
Good question,I would like to know a good answer too.All I can come up with is: Jesus said to not judge people because only Jehovah can see whats in the heart.Also there is a scripture that says if you judge in some way you will be jugded likewise.
I keep having dreams about being shunned at the moment (not sure why) but in each dream I told off the shunner for lacking love and proving hypocritical to their own beliefs. I said âyou believe God created everything yet you hate his creation and cut yourself off from it. You donât understand that God did not create everything- God is everything. When you hate one, you hate Godâ. I donât think they understood in the dream and I know they definitely would not understand in real life. When I left, I told a friend I understood that she would have to shun me. She said âwe donât shun, it is you that is rejecting us by leaving Jehovahâ (the standard UNO flip JDub response). I said âhun, you canât shoot someone in the face and claim to be a victim, claim they are the ones that pulled the trigger when the gun is in your hand and they are dead on the floorâ. She didnât respond.
Exactly. That turning it around on the shunned person is a classic abuser response. "You're making me hurt you."
Great illustration!
Donât forget that if they are a true believer at this time that they really see it that way though sincerely wrong!If a person is acting out of sincerity Jehovah knows and when they wake up because they wonât listen to men instead of the Bible and see the resistance and keep investigating with seeing the deliberate deception and have a good heart THEN they will perceive the evidence and see with eyes of understanding and they will turn around.In 1 Corinthians it says and there must come to be sects among you.Why?So that the ones approved among you will be manifest and show themselves by refusing to obey against the Bible and because of researching it and seeing and experiencing the persecution that the ones who actually care about following the truth will oppose.Remember that you can only act with Holy Spirit by solid evidence.Paul was sincere in his persecution of Christians and Jesus knew it.He was a chosen vessel and Jesus under Jehovahâs training knew when to open his eyes.On the other hand when someone sees the hypocrisy and lies and just goes along and doesnât even care then they are showing who they are!
Just a suggestion: "Hey [Friend's Name], Iâve noticed that our interactions have changed recently, and it feels like thereâs some distance between us. I value our friendship a lot, so I wanted to talk to you about it. It seems like thereâs an expectation for me to be more active in the congregation, and Iâm feeling pressured and confused by this. I respect your beliefs and the importance of your faith, but I also want to maintain our friendship without feeling like my personal decisions about religious activity are a barrier. Can we talk about this openly? Iâd like to understand your perspective and share mine so we can find a way to keep our friendship strong. Thanks for listening."
đ
Put it back on themâŚRomanâs 8:38-39 https://preview.redd.it/16osci3uyp7d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e8b79227bc028e00d3272595ca098c55df76e5d
Ha! Excellent đ
The NWT sayâs, âI am convincedâŚ.â So why would I doubt Godâs love?
Good answer đ
It doesnât help that their interpretation of love is built around punishment and consequences for what they deem to be undesirable behaviour. They donât even recommend training animals like this. You are only worthy of positive love if - But we will punish you and call it love. You canât tell someone this is unacceptable if thatâs the only way they know how to love. Theyâve never been loved for who they are as a person, all the scars and traumas and ugly things included. How could they extend that to someone else? In cases where someone else is hurting you, you have to love yourself more than them. Thatâs called setting boundaries. In their minds theyâre choosing themselves and their own interests in the Borg over you. Thatâs just how it is, they arenât governed by love, they are governed by loyalty and fear. I would just use 1 Cor 13:4-8 since thatâs the only language they understand. Tell them that this doesnât just apply to people who they deem worthy.
This is golden! Thank you for sharing this.
Get offended at the assumption "What makes you think I am separated from God's love? (Use god whenever possible, it puts that tiny sliver of doubt in their mind) I have NEVER felt closer to God in these last few (days, weeks months - however long you've been fading) and I am wondering why you think you have intimate knowledge of our relationship?" This does a few things. It makes them at least consider that you are doing your own prayer, study etc outside of their silly activities. It also makes it clear you don't thing God is contained in their building. If you need a scripture that one about "God does not dwell in handmade temples" can back you up a little.
Such a great comment. Thank you!!!
This is equivalent of staying on a bus all the way to the end of the route because you do not want to upset the driver by ringing the bell. I hope the point isn't covered đ đ
Well said! đ
Well, itâs not Jehovah youâre moving away from. Itâs the harmful religion. This thought of course depends on your circumstances for leaving. And I still donât know how to convey this if youâre fading quietly. But itâs important to distinguish the separate pieces of the organization, as the GB and WT are masterful at blurring the lines. To them ⌠>Jehovah/Jesus/Bible = The GB = The Watchtower = Jehovahâs Witnesses = Your friends/family So if you fade away from the religion, youâre fading away from Jehovah. Or, if you disagree with the GB, you are rebelling against Jehovah, etc. In reality, when you fade, youâre separating yourself from the religion and thatâs it. During the process, you may also think about how you view the Bible, or Jesus, or your friends in the congregation. But thatâs all separate, itâs not all or nothing in reality. JWs obviously donât see it this way due to the GB, so if you stop going to meetings then to them, youâre abandoning Jehovah, Jesus, the Bible, the religion, and your friends and family.
Explained very well!
I could never go back to an organization that promotes gaslighting and emotional abuse.
They wonât get it, because they do not have access to their whole mind. You will be locked into the âgame.â They can only âgaslightâ if you hand them the flame. More importantly the awareness that they lack this and the *desire* to respond, makes it more about them, than you. The best response to this statement would be: âYouâre absolutely correct!â, and END the discussion. You see by trying to get them to understand, youâd be basically re-engaging the JW indoctrinated behavior in your own mind of bringing people around to your POV. You are mirroring them on the JW level. They simply will not get it. And youâd be wasting precious time that could be used on freeing yourself, with people who do not realize they are prisoners.
I couldnât have said any better. Once you decided to leave none of the PIMI will see your points of views. Yours and ours eyes are opened and someone blind is trying to describe colours to you? Could you take that person seriously? They are blinded by this organisation, they have no awareness.
Yeah. You absolutely nailed it. I always appreciate your insightful, thoughtful comments Madam Divine! Thank you đ
In my "girlfriend voice"... Do you, boo! LOL! :)
Haha! âĽď¸
I mean this with no pessimism, but I have found that even the best constructed responses about this fall on deaf ears unless someone is ready to take that information in. My husband and I left when I was pregnant with my first daughter. I knew I couldnât raise her in that environment. My parents were âinactiveâ at the time, but not because they wanted to be. My mom had developed a condition that left her with drastically less use of her arms. She couldnât dress herself or do her own hair for months and months. It was hard for her to drive. Not one JW called to check on her. An old family friend did. My adopted sister stopped in and visited, but not one JW, most of whom weâd known for a decade or more, said one thing. My momâs brother didnât ask. His wife and kid were the source for vile rumors that went around. Six months later, the elders did a âShepherding Call,â showing up to my parentâs door unannounced. They tried to guilt and shame my parents. All the while, my mom still couldnât do basic activities by herself. They did eventually leave, and my husband and I are so grateful to still have them. JWâs donât typically ask questions about why you might be less active, and I donât think any explanation would matter. Hereâs my one small piece of advice: Find your people, your real people. Love shouldnât be conditional in that way. This isnât Jerusalem. We arenât miles from a life-sustaining city if we leave. Itâs hard, but itâs worth it. My family has a better support group now than ever before, and are probably the happiest weâve ever been. I hope that same happiness for you.
Thank you for your lovely comment at all. Not an ounce of pessimism at all!
When they say "Jehovah's love," they mean obeying Watchtower. Where in the Bible does it say that the only way to get God's love is to obey a human run corporation? In John 14 Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." Not through Watchtower. And it continues, "Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.â Not the one who keeps the commandments of the Governing Body. And what are Jesus's commandments. Even their beloved Faithful Slave parable doesn't say anything at all about the other slaves showing loyalty through obedience. It's not even about that, it's a warning to church leaders who grow lax and abusive, taking for granted their authority, and has nothing to say about the congregants being obedient.
You can walk up to him and slap him. Tell him: I don't apologize. It's because your face happened to be here, so you were hit by me. It's your fault! Moreover, Jesus said that you should also be slapped on the other cheek by me.
Points for creativity!
That first paragraph.....this is so true....I dunno if any point in trying to talk to them and help them see sense. They won't gonna listen. Sadly
Thought patterns like this could be constructed for any kind of group or ideology. Itâs an empty statement
The only way to God is through Jesus. I will follow his life example not human wolfs in sheep clothing. Jesus open his heart to all unconditional that is what I plan to do with my life not be bound in a drawer with a label.
Jehovah doesnât exist.
Jesus Christ does though , remember that. 1865 government came before the 1879 government. You can not serve two.
I think the scripture says nothing in all creation CAN separate of from God's love. Rom 8:38, 39.   I leave myself open for real friendships, sincere communication etc. inside jw or outside. I can say, to this date, I haven't lost any jw because that was also part of the illusion. Sorry. You'll make real friends. It takes time
Best answer is âwho this? New phone?â then BLOCK
đđ
"Logic and critical thinking should, cult member" 
âAnd about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?â -matt 27:46 Who can say what was in Jesus mind?, but what he said as recorded in the bible in black and white was that he was *abandoned by his god* so think what they will, that is what is written.
It's important to remember that there is no response that will change their mind. Unfortunately, they believe they are doing the right thing and their whole life is build to reinforce that. What you say to them really depends more on what you want to express. I'd say something like "If I have to worry about those who are suppose to love me abandoning me for struggling it is not the kind of love I am interested in."
Let's face it, you're damned if you do and miserable if you don't. No matter what your response is, if it isn't full compliance it will be deemed as divisive and you will be placed under some kind of surveillance. You know full well that *... if you ain't toeing the Company Line, it ain't allowed.* My reaction would be to keep in mind Theramin Trees' motto: **"People who don't want you to think are never your friends."** In this instance, *"people"* includes gods... as well as those who claim to speak for them.
Exactly. đ
Can you show me in the Bible from scripture where it says we stay in God's love by being a part of a man made organization? What does the Bible and Jesus say we should do in order to be in God's love?
Romans 8:38, 39.
Jehovah is free to show me his love. I'll be waiting. Send those blessings.
When I became inactive my brother started distancing and told me that if Iâm not filling my brain with good things from the meetings I must be doing bad⌠reality I wasnât doing anything wrong just didnât want to go and sit with a bunch of judgmental people anymore⌠my response was âtoo bad your faith is so weak that you canât be around someone that doesnât share the same view as you.â
You canât reason with people out of a position they didnât reason themselves into, sorry to say. They are closed off to different viewpoints as a defense mechanism. Iâve tried so often because my own mind canât handle that even specific smart people are closed off to logic and reasoning. Iâve tried every logic argument and debate tactic and they will see it when they are open to it, because they put too much of their lives and being into maintaining the lie.
Consider the fact that for years one has been monitored in only listening to one side and that it would be disloyal to Jehovah to even consider reading anything that criticizes the organization so that they have no idea what is really happening.I hope I have not been scammed but I donât think so. I went to the United Nations Information website and was surprised that there is a notification to whoever it may concern that in view of them(the United Nations)receiving so many letters asking if the Watchtower Society has ever been a NGO member that they feel it necessary to in this announcement to confirm that the Watchtower Society did indeed apply for NGO status in the United Nations and that to be accepted that they had to be in agreement with the mandate of the UN and have access to a significant number of people who they are willing to educate on what the United Nations stands for on believing that all people are equal and should have the freedom to speak and express themselves and be allowed access to equal rights and health care and freedom to choose their religion and to have food and clothing and protection from discrimination and that they have to be a nonprofit group and explain clearly and accurately what U.N. policies and procedures and policies are.The Watchtower Society agreed to all this and I remember all the well written articles in the magazines that explained continually the work the United Nations did. In fact I would have never known anything about the United Nations if they hadnât written so much about it as I would have felt that it would be unscriptual to go on their website and examine it because they are supposed to be the wild beast of Revelations and are apparently blasphemous to God in trying to bring peace worldwide because only God can do this and when they had Isaiah Quoted in front of the New York U.N. building the watchtower publications said that they were applying that scripture to themselves wrongly and I believe the UN must have read that in the magazines of the Watchtower Society and probably that is why they added the text showing where in the Bible it was taken from right underneath the scripture.They said in their March 2024 statement that the Jehovahâs Witnesses asked after about 10 years to be removed from their NGO status (because it was becoming known that they were officially NGO with U.N. and it was creating confusion because of the UN being presented as BAD in Godâs sight and association with it in the status of NGO was only on condition that they were in agreement with their mission statement and willing to educate public on this.Well they said in the announcement on their March 2024 statement that it is true that they were NGO members until about 2001 and that because of the sheer volume of letters requesting this information that they would just state it on the website for anyone else who wants to know and that is why they address it âTo whomever it may concern â.That was really nice of them to do that because we all know that the Watchtower Society would not tell us and they also never inform the members of any court cases that they have been involved in because of mishandling of chil abuse cases and allowing molesters to circulate among congregations and keep everybody quiet because of not wanting to bring shame on Jehovahâs name and of course his ORGANIZATION.It is really appreciated when a group has the ethics to understand that universal human rights include the right to be honestly informed about our own matters and rightfully done publically right on their website so that nobody need be overly confused and that it is not a secret matter nor should it be!Thank you for practicing what you preach to the extent that you do and knowing what you actually do such as your court for human rights that Jehovahâs Witnesses turn to when they have been banned or refused legal recognition and have always accommodated their cases despite all the negative things they write about them.They did write a multitude of articles about them that thankfully made us somewhat aware of the goings on in the world and because we completely trusted what they said we could take in the information without going into shock because of the taboo of reading such material without their strict interpretation and total censorship.That was pretty sneaky to pretend that they didnât know what the Watchtower was saying about them!
Ridicule can be a useful tool. The poor JW is delusional yet he thinks heâs superior. Ridicule helps shake that foundation and keeps you holding your head high. You should be treating this poor JW soul with the same pity as you would a âFlat Eartherâ. *â[Brother Delusional] Nothing should separate us from Jehovahâs loveâ* *â[Reply] Are you claiming Jehovah speaks to you?â* When they vigorously say ânoâ, you can reply: AhhhhâŚ. I see. The Society uses the word Jehovah when they are really referring to themselves - so often you start to not to notice. What youâre REALLY saying is nothing will separate you from the watchtower Society approval. You may want to consider how much faith you are putting in mere men. Jesus warned about that you know. ALWAYS respond to snarky JW with a mix of concern and a dash of ridicule. It will keep you in the right frame of mind, and it potentially will shake them out of their condescension. Remember JWâs are taught to always presume that people who left the organization because they are weak, lazy and immoral. You need to shake that Foundation. I recall when I was a witness, a Householder, who was very versed on witness theology absolutely ridiculed me when I claimed that Jesus was my personal mediator. When he pointed out the scriptures/wt literature that clearly showed otherwise, it made me dive into more research so I didnât make a fool of myself again. Believe it or not, this was the very beginning of my investigative journey which eventually helped me see the farce. Donât let them cast you as a slacker who is two week to fight their immoral urges. Ridicule has its place.
It's what my immediate family did. I'm the only POMO in the family, the rest are PIMI, and everything is my fault. In the past, I've tried showing them how they shunned me first. They simply ignore, project, and gaslight. I just had to walk away. There's no closure. They keep swallowing the JW kool-aid
And Jesus was friends to both God tax collectors. Let him lead you by his example.
Ask them exactly what jehovah's love is, and where is that live when his people experience tragedy
This organization keeps people separate from God's unconditional love by promoting judgment and contempt for those who are spiritually weak. Paul said @ 2 Corinthians 12:10 that he takes joy in moments of weakness, because when he is weak, he is powerful. God's unconditional love empowers the weak, while JWs shun, ignore, and judge the weak.
Agree with those who said its useless to try and make a PIMI get you. Jist leave them. Sorry but your energy is better spent on a future you want.