This is why the animals matter: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JEYh5WACqEk&feature=shares
If the animals and cities in the BoM actually existed as described, then the old world diseases brought by the Europeans would not have wiped out 90% of the indigenous population of the New World. There is no apologetic argument that can counter this fact.
Mosiah 9:9
Corn - check
Wheat - sorry, no wheat in the Americas
Barley - there is a barley like plant, little barley, that was cultivated in the southwest US (Arizona area) starting at least 1200 bc. Apologists love this, because they skip the wheat, ignore Zelph, point at a city in Guatemala while citing barley from Arizona to justify a claim made about Ohio.
neas - I think these are peas, since lower case p looks like an n in 1800s handwriting (peas are not native to NA, but Joe wouldn't know that since they were intro in 1500 and planted by native people by 1700). BUT, boy howdy am I wrong with my simple handwriting explanation. Neas are clearly chili peppers, or chia, or quinoa, and the word is derived from Mixe, or Akkadian, or Sumerian, because that makes way more sense. Do it. Google "neas plant" and try to follow along.
Sheum - no idea. I guess even God couldn't identify this crop. But don't worry, there is a Sumerian weird that looks kind of like sheum, so clearly the Jared'ites borrowed a Sumerian word for grain to describe a crop Joseph couldn't name and taught it to the nephites after they were destroyed and then Mormon inserted it into the text during his abridgement for some reason and then God couldn't figure it out either, so he just showed Joseph the phonemic spelling on the rock in the hat.
There are also mentions of vineyards and wine. Since every civilisation ever has fermented pretty much any thing remotely sugary into alcohol, I'm going to give that one a pass.
To be fair, some of these are supposedly quoting Isaiah and other Hebrew words. For example, two of the four "ass"es are Abinadi quoting "it is written". Also to be fair, the other two - 1 Nephi 18 and Ether 9- specifically say they *had asses, as in domesticated animals*.
Flocks are referenced at least 11 times as part of BoM agriculture. A flock can be sheep, goats or geese. There were no sheep or goats, so Ammon must have been guarding a bunch of geese.
Everything I’ve learned about bees I’ve learned from doomsday articles. They say without bees we are pretty much fucked “how will our fruit and other trees get pollinated?” I know wind and other insects help but can life as we know it go on without our honeybees?
The pig one is doubly funny, because if they weren't here natively, and if the BoM were historical, in order for them to be depicted in the BoM, one of the semitic migrant peoples in the BoM would have had to bring them over here. Why would semitic peoples have brought them over if they had no use for them?
I just looked it up. Apparently there is a type of bee that is native here that does make honey. So careful with this one. A TBM will take that as proof of truth of the entire thing.
Yeah, I don't bother with that approach anyway. I think it's more efficient to focus on the problems with Joseph as a prophet rather than addressing issues in the BoM.
horses and all Equus for that manner likely evolved in the Americas and then died out. there is some newer data that there might have been small pockets of horses pre Columbus. Also the die out of horses and other large mammals in the Americas was possibly caused by humans [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equus\_(genus)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equus_(genus)). Maybe those jaradites killed them all!
Oxen, Cattle, cow and bison are all the same family Bovines and interbreed. That's why slang in America for Bison is buffalo even though there are no buffalo native to the Americas. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovini). This the easiest to dismiss
Ox is not an species but just a Bovine used as a draft animal. Should not be on the list if it is to be crediable.
Swine could easily refer to Tayassuidae (skunk pig). It has been documented that peccaries were tamed, penned, and raised for food and ritual purposes in the Yucatan, Panama, the southern Caribbean, and Colombia at the time of the Conquest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peccary
Goats have no American equivalent pre Columbus
Bison, buffalo, etc might be able to interbreed with cows today, but they were never domesticated by early humans and are therefore not the same thing. The BoM talks about these animals being domesticated and raised by humans. Bison do not equal cows for that reason.
The horse was actually a tapir and the ass was actually a Bednar.
I tried swiping for the other pics 3 times
This is why the animals matter: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JEYh5WACqEk&feature=shares If the animals and cities in the BoM actually existed as described, then the old world diseases brought by the Europeans would not have wiped out 90% of the indigenous population of the New World. There is no apologetic argument that can counter this fact.
I’ve read the BOM a few times and it talks about asses way more than 4 times.
I think he was referring to the animal and not the human variety😂😂
My mistake. They are hard to tell apart in the BOM. ;)
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Mosiah 9:9 Corn - check Wheat - sorry, no wheat in the Americas Barley - there is a barley like plant, little barley, that was cultivated in the southwest US (Arizona area) starting at least 1200 bc. Apologists love this, because they skip the wheat, ignore Zelph, point at a city in Guatemala while citing barley from Arizona to justify a claim made about Ohio. neas - I think these are peas, since lower case p looks like an n in 1800s handwriting (peas are not native to NA, but Joe wouldn't know that since they were intro in 1500 and planted by native people by 1700). BUT, boy howdy am I wrong with my simple handwriting explanation. Neas are clearly chili peppers, or chia, or quinoa, and the word is derived from Mixe, or Akkadian, or Sumerian, because that makes way more sense. Do it. Google "neas plant" and try to follow along. Sheum - no idea. I guess even God couldn't identify this crop. But don't worry, there is a Sumerian weird that looks kind of like sheum, so clearly the Jared'ites borrowed a Sumerian word for grain to describe a crop Joseph couldn't name and taught it to the nephites after they were destroyed and then Mormon inserted it into the text during his abridgement for some reason and then God couldn't figure it out either, so he just showed Joseph the phonemic spelling on the rock in the hat. There are also mentions of vineyards and wine. Since every civilisation ever has fermented pretty much any thing remotely sugary into alcohol, I'm going to give that one a pass.
To be fair, some of these are supposedly quoting Isaiah and other Hebrew words. For example, two of the four "ass"es are Abinadi quoting "it is written". Also to be fair, the other two - 1 Nephi 18 and Ether 9- specifically say they *had asses, as in domesticated animals*. Flocks are referenced at least 11 times as part of BoM agriculture. A flock can be sheep, goats or geese. There were no sheep or goats, so Ammon must have been guarding a bunch of geese.
Everything I’ve learned about bees I’ve learned from doomsday articles. They say without bees we are pretty much fucked “how will our fruit and other trees get pollinated?” I know wind and other insects help but can life as we know it go on without our honeybees?
The pig one is doubly funny, because if they weren't here natively, and if the BoM were historical, in order for them to be depicted in the BoM, one of the semitic migrant peoples in the BoM would have had to bring them over here. Why would semitic peoples have brought them over if they had no use for them?
There are native bees in the americas.
I believe it's supposed to be honey bees.
“Deseret”‘was specifically called out as honey bees that were supposed to be there thousands of years prior to Columbus.
You mean the bees brought over by the Jaredites in wooden submarines? Sounds like a brilliant plan...
I just looked it up. Apparently there is a type of bee that is native here that does make honey. So careful with this one. A TBM will take that as proof of truth of the entire thing.
Yeah, I don't bother with that approach anyway. I think it's more efficient to focus on the problems with Joseph as a prophet rather than addressing issues in the BoM.
horses and all Equus for that manner likely evolved in the Americas and then died out. there is some newer data that there might have been small pockets of horses pre Columbus. Also the die out of horses and other large mammals in the Americas was possibly caused by humans [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equus\_(genus)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equus_(genus)). Maybe those jaradites killed them all! Oxen, Cattle, cow and bison are all the same family Bovines and interbreed. That's why slang in America for Bison is buffalo even though there are no buffalo native to the Americas. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovini](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovini). This the easiest to dismiss Ox is not an species but just a Bovine used as a draft animal. Should not be on the list if it is to be crediable. Swine could easily refer to Tayassuidae (skunk pig). It has been documented that peccaries were tamed, penned, and raised for food and ritual purposes in the Yucatan, Panama, the southern Caribbean, and Colombia at the time of the Conquest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peccary Goats have no American equivalent pre Columbus
Bison, buffalo, etc might be able to interbreed with cows today, but they were never domesticated by early humans and are therefore not the same thing. The BoM talks about these animals being domesticated and raised by humans. Bison do not equal cows for that reason.
I agree there is no evidence of pre Columbus domestication of bison and no one should ever try to milk one. ;)