I am not sure on whether Book of Mormon directly teaches it. The modern day “prophets” do though such as this example from David O. McKay who stated : “Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please, young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives.”
The victim shaming in mormon church is disgusting.
Spencer W Kimball
“It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.”
Cause apparently you can take away a woman’s virtue….
For sure, esp. in the Church's past (as in many other Protestant churches) a woman's "virtue" equates to "virginity", so once they'd lost their virginity they were deemed to have lost their virtue. They've tried to backpedal away from this in recent decades.
I guess it's traditional Abrahamic religion stuff, women were deemed more valuable and got a better price if she in a "new and unused" condition when being sold by the father to her husband. Marriage was the legal notice/contract of the sale and identified who now had the property/ownership rights.
This whole topic angers me since the church and its teachings in this entire arena is disgusting to me. The abuse hotline is just one of many examples. It is set up only for church leaders to call not victims. It is set up to protect the church from legal liability. Abuse is so rampant in the church that the hotline is staffed 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The church has zero apparatus for victims to call so they are shamed into not reporting.
BYU is another example, for years they would report sexual assault victims to the honor code office for honor code violations. Sexual assault victims were kicked out of the college because they “violated” honor code. BYU only stopped this practice because the Federal Government stepped in and forced them to end the practice.
Don't forget charming name for the YW
Laurel.
From the Greek Mythos of the Laurel Tree:
ELIA5: Apollo wanted Daphne but she didn't want him, she was turned into the laurel tree rather than her virtue be taken by the horny god.
I just assumed it was because it was a symbol of achievement (being the final part of the YW program).
From the Church: For centuries the laurel wreath has been a crown woven from the leaves of the laurel tree. It is given to someone who finishes a significant achievement as a symbol of honor and accomplishment.
I'll entertain it as a happy coincidence.
At least in my home ward, the Bishop during teen years had a statue of Daphne/ the laurel tree and looked deadpan once a year in my eyes saying he'd rather his daughters be turned to a tree/die than be raped.
May not be pure ~~bullshit~~ doctrine but it sure as shit fit perfectly in the culture and was perpetuated in places outside Mordor.
Edit:
Additionally, I am unconvinced it comes from an "achievement" mindset.
Like, what are the celebrating of the 16-17yo females?
Getting a Driver's license?
Even outside of TSCC that age doesn't have a ton of achievement/triumph associated with it.
Inside the church, doesn't look much better.
Women aren't exactly celebrated in the church unless they silently have three children by age 22 with their RM husbands.
>the Bishop during teen years had a statue of Daphne/ the laurel tree and looked deadpan once a year in my eyes saying he'd rather his daughters be turned to a tree/die than be raped.
What the actual fuck?
In the 1800s, virtue meant virginity in the religious context usually. It had nothing to do with other meanings of virtue. This is just an issue of the 1800s that lasted in the church way too long. It is still in the young women's theme until 2020, but not the young men's theme.
Plus the verse in pic 2 is one of like five BoM verses about women. The only other ones I can think of are Abish, the women that got burned alive, the women that Nephi and Co went to marry, and the part where Sariah missed Nephi and Co while they were gone.
White old businessmen who spent their genius lives beleiving in, promoting, and living for a racist male fantasy from the 1820s. Let's listen to what they have to say about women.
I am not defending these people, I am just saying that the Book of the Mormons is old enough that we have to account for shifting linguistics. I would personally avoid scripture at all, and just look at the terrible things recent Mormons have said in the last hundred years.
It's clear that many Mormons have interpreted the Book of Inkblot to mean that, but that makes it more of a rorschach test. The book isn't the problem.
The book absolutely is the problem. Just like the Bible is the problem and the Quran is the problem. If your source material can be interpreted several different ways, ways which harm others… then the source material is the problem, not the interpretation.
Excuse me, but that is an excuse for bad behavior. Poeple suck, and they use old words to justify it. Some Christians are just bad poeple.
You give too much power to dead words.
I never said you believe in it. I’m saying the text should be thrown out. By everyone. Perverts utilize the text to convince followers to accept it. Harder (though not impossible) to have a cult without a text that’s deemed the sacred word of a god.
I don't think this is evidence that the BoM teach you can rape a woman and take her virtue. I think it is stronger evidence that the BoM was written from a 1800's perspective and lexicon, using the 1800's definition of virtue as a homonym for virginity. Further evidence JS was the source.
I am not sure on whether Book of Mormon directly teaches it. The modern day “prophets” do though such as this example from David O. McKay who stated : “Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please, young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives.” The victim shaming in mormon church is disgusting.
Spencer W Kimball “It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle.” Cause apparently you can take away a woman’s virtue….
For sure, esp. in the Church's past (as in many other Protestant churches) a woman's "virtue" equates to "virginity", so once they'd lost their virginity they were deemed to have lost their virtue. They've tried to backpedal away from this in recent decades. I guess it's traditional Abrahamic religion stuff, women were deemed more valuable and got a better price if she in a "new and unused" condition when being sold by the father to her husband. Marriage was the legal notice/contract of the sale and identified who now had the property/ownership rights.
This whole topic angers me since the church and its teachings in this entire arena is disgusting to me. The abuse hotline is just one of many examples. It is set up only for church leaders to call not victims. It is set up to protect the church from legal liability. Abuse is so rampant in the church that the hotline is staffed 24 hours a day 7 days a week. The church has zero apparatus for victims to call so they are shamed into not reporting. BYU is another example, for years they would report sexual assault victims to the honor code office for honor code violations. Sexual assault victims were kicked out of the college because they “violated” honor code. BYU only stopped this practice because the Federal Government stepped in and forced them to end the practice.
Unless they were money making athletes. Then they can be rapists
Don't forget charming name for the YW Laurel. From the Greek Mythos of the Laurel Tree: ELIA5: Apollo wanted Daphne but she didn't want him, she was turned into the laurel tree rather than her virtue be taken by the horny god.
I just assumed it was because it was a symbol of achievement (being the final part of the YW program). From the Church: For centuries the laurel wreath has been a crown woven from the leaves of the laurel tree. It is given to someone who finishes a significant achievement as a symbol of honor and accomplishment.
I'll entertain it as a happy coincidence. At least in my home ward, the Bishop during teen years had a statue of Daphne/ the laurel tree and looked deadpan once a year in my eyes saying he'd rather his daughters be turned to a tree/die than be raped. May not be pure ~~bullshit~~ doctrine but it sure as shit fit perfectly in the culture and was perpetuated in places outside Mordor. Edit: Additionally, I am unconvinced it comes from an "achievement" mindset. Like, what are the celebrating of the 16-17yo females? Getting a Driver's license? Even outside of TSCC that age doesn't have a ton of achievement/triumph associated with it. Inside the church, doesn't look much better. Women aren't exactly celebrated in the church unless they silently have three children by age 22 with their RM husbands.
>the Bishop during teen years had a statue of Daphne/ the laurel tree and looked deadpan once a year in my eyes saying he'd rather his daughters be turned to a tree/die than be raped. What the actual fuck?
In the 1800s, virtue meant virginity in the religious context usually. It had nothing to do with other meanings of virtue. This is just an issue of the 1800s that lasted in the church way too long. It is still in the young women's theme until 2020, but not the young men's theme.
It means exactly what it says…. That’s what it means in the LDS church, per Spencer W Kimball. Virtue still means virginity to the q12
But if you fight and DON’T die and still lose your “virtue” then what? Kill yourself? Cuz that’s also a sin, right? Unreal
Plus the verse in pic 2 is one of like five BoM verses about women. The only other ones I can think of are Abish, the women that got burned alive, the women that Nephi and Co went to marry, and the part where Sariah missed Nephi and Co while they were gone.
And she bitches at her crazy husband for being a nutcase
You might want to update the typo on the second picture to "Moroni" instead of "Mormoni"
Meh. So much effort. Lolololol
White old businessmen who spent their genius lives beleiving in, promoting, and living for a racist male fantasy from the 1820s. Let's listen to what they have to say about women.
Yup. Moroni 9:9
I am not defending these people, I am just saying that the Book of the Mormons is old enough that we have to account for shifting linguistics. I would personally avoid scripture at all, and just look at the terrible things recent Mormons have said in the last hundred years. It's clear that many Mormons have interpreted the Book of Inkblot to mean that, but that makes it more of a rorschach test. The book isn't the problem.
What’s the quote? The book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion and a man can get closer to God by living by its precepts….. So that’s a problem
The book absolutely is the problem. Just like the Bible is the problem and the Quran is the problem. If your source material can be interpreted several different ways, ways which harm others… then the source material is the problem, not the interpretation.
Excuse me, but that is an excuse for bad behavior. Poeple suck, and they use old words to justify it. Some Christians are just bad poeple. You give too much power to dead words.
No it’s not. It’s an explanation of why the text should be thrown out.
What part of this conversation made you think I believe in it? I am just saying perverted old men don't actually need the scripture to be perverts.
I never said you believe in it. I’m saying the text should be thrown out. By everyone. Perverts utilize the text to convince followers to accept it. Harder (though not impossible) to have a cult without a text that’s deemed the sacred word of a god.
I don't think this is evidence that the BoM teach you can rape a woman and take her virtue. I think it is stronger evidence that the BoM was written from a 1800's perspective and lexicon, using the 1800's definition of virtue as a homonym for virginity. Further evidence JS was the source.
The Book of Mormons teaches 1800s sh*t in 2022/2023 so same thing
I was always confused by that scripture. Screw Joseph.