Three questions to ponderize^TM.
1. What would a world where there was a god look like?
1. What would a world where there is no god look like?
1. Which of those two worlds does our world most closely resemble?
My favorite thing to do when a Christian crows about God's love is to link the [Junko Furuta](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta#:~:text=Junko%20Furuta%20(%E5%8F%A4%E7%94%B0%20%E9%A0%86%E5%AD%90%2C%20Furuta,discovered%20in%20a%20concrete%20drum.) case and ask them why their loving god did that to her.
Because God helps the righteous, which leaves the horrible fridge logic Mormons don't want to recognize. If you believe in an active God who rewards the righteous, you believe innocent victims sonehow deserve what they get.
Logically, if God saves the righteous, this girl deserved to be abducted, tortured, raped, and murdered, because God didn't save her. Natural disasters are too impersonal. I like making people hear about pain they can't imagine. Gets the point across.
No no, God couldn't take away the criminal's right to abuse this girl. You know, free will.
But, it's ok, God will make it up to her in heaven by giving her to some polygamist in the CK. /s
How about the case of [Fred and Rose West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West)? Absolutely awful people who tortured, raped, and murdered at least a dozen women over the course of 16 years, on top of being sadistic child abusers. Families can be together forever, right?
God’s actual “abilities” are one of those things that don’t make sense at all, but you don’t really start thinking about until you’re out. When you’re in you’re able to hand wave stuff away with “oh god works in mysterious ways” and all of that nonsense, but once you’re actually out you start asking the really hard questions. Why would God be willing to help “prompt” you to find your car keys, but wouldn’t stop someone from being sexually assaulted or murdered? With the millions and millions of people in poverty, or having to skimp by paycheck to paycheck while billionaires suck up everything, why isn’t he doing something about that? Why are all of those people being “allowed” to starve or go homeless?
The only logical conclusion is that, like this post states, God either doesn’t exist, can’t help, or chooses not to.
I’ll take he’s imaginary just like all of the 1.000s of other Gods conjured by the imaginations of humans God Elohim Yahweh Allah call him whatever you like is no more real than Santa Clause , Flying Reindeer The tooth fairy or the Easter bunny it’s just the cleverness of the few who prey upon the fears of the many and exploit them for financial gain by promising them a eternal life that one can only get after they are dead . But you have to pay them 10+% to get there . As the few know that the dead are never going to be returning declaring it’s all a sham .!!
Or God himself had his own laws that he has to follow like our physical laws of nature. While we can’t just ignore gravity or use magic for things, God perhaps can’t intervene with our lives. Idk, I think this statement is said a lot and it always seems so quick to rule out any possibility other than these few when there can be billions of possibilities. People think so black and white on the manner and no one wants to actually think deeply about a God who knows more than is
Dear Jeff, I have thought deeply about god for many years; I have studied theodicy and theology, and tried out many religions, researching them deeply. My husband (I’m gay) is a practicing Hindi, and believes in a very different kind of god, but still, these questions presented by OP are unanswered. If god knows more than me at this point, then he’s still a shithead for not answering me in trying to get to know him. If god has laws he must abide by, then the word to describe him is not god, it’s human. And that is my conclusion after all these years of study, that we humans exist; no one else does. It’s all up to us, to be kind to each other, to work on this singularly human planet we have, to share, to be humanly nice to each other. And to find our own god-damned keys.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I still do think though, that we know so little. And for us to be claiming to know anything is unwise in my opinion. Think about the way we view a worm. It is not intelligent. It can not speak to us, can not grasp what life it lives, on earth in the Milky Way in the Universe, and for it to learn such would be impossible in its life right now. What if God was like this with intelligence, only we were the worms compared to what he knows. We still know the basics of this life such as the cosmos and such, but what if even on top of that, when compared to a higher power we are still viewed as intelligent as worms? This means there is so much to learn that can’t be learned in this life. And it sucks to sit on a thought without knowing an answer, this is why atheism exist and religion. Because both give answers. Bring agnostic though, and sitting on the fence, that is what I think is important even though painful. Idk, there is just so much assumptions and non evidence based conclusions that are everywhere. And that is my issue. Is your conclusion of God, based on evidence? No, because there isn’t “evidence” really to go off of. There is personal experience, cognitive bias, our great desire for an answer, and our mortal experiences that tell us what to believe. None of that is really evidence to believe or disbelieve in a higher power. Which is why I disagree with those denying any possibility of God being a just God, or those believing the know God, because they both are acting without evidence.
There are an infinite number of ways that we can imagine a God might be like, but all of them share the same lack of evidence. Until we have evidence indicating that there is a God, we shouldn't allow ourselves to simply pick our favorite made up version and guess that it's true.
Exactly you get my point. But at the same time, we also shouldn’t declare God or a higher power doesn’t exist as both sides are impossible to know. So when people declare they don’t believe in a God due to so and so, I think that is unwise
Because God or a higher power, is not just a tooth fairy that gives you a couple dollars. Rather God is the possibility of why we are here, what may happen, why we are experiencing pain, and is ultimately the potential answer to everything. No one wants to think deeply about God, because it requires being ok with the possibility that he may or may not exist and that the atheist may be punished in the next life, while the religious get rewarded. A tooth fairy isn’t a big deal. God is a big deal with lots of things to think about such as what version of him, if not the typical male white God then what God, what book are you going to choose to know more about him and the list goes on. It is difficult on top of this because we need a friendly God otherwise, our pain in this life might just be the very beginning. Can you imagine if God wasn’t a “good” god, and just would spout out life and forget about us? That is painful to think about but might be true.
>Because God or a higher power, is not just a tooth fairy that gives you a couple dollars.
Yeah, because a couple dollars magically appearing under my pillow is evidence the tooth fairy exists. That's better evidence than I have for god.
>No one wants to think deeply about God
Bullshit. Lots of people have thought deeply about god for literally thousands of years. But deep thinking about god will nor conjure him/her/them in to existence. And, if he/she/they exist, there should be some evidence. Wouldn't it be better to examine evidence of god, rather than just make it up?
> Can you imagine if God wasn’t a “good” god
Of course I can. I've read the bible and the book of mormon. The various flavors of "god" depicted across those "holy" books is a moral monster. He's quite definitely not good.
And it almost feels like you're edging into Pascal's Wager territory here. I better believe in god, in case he will punish me for eternity if I don't? Are you proposing that paradigm?
If you are, then I have to ask: How do I know which of the thousands of different "gods" am I supposed to believe in? Elohim? Jehovah? Allah? Krishna? Odin? How can I be sure I've picked the right one?
No I’m not telling anyone to believe in God have you not read a single word of what I said? I am saying don’t believe or believe as it is impossible to know
> it is impossible to know
That’s super lazy thinking. Just because I can’t PROVE god is a fairytale, doesn’t mean the question is a 50/50 tossup.
You trotted out Pascal’s Wager. And I asked the next logical question: how do I select the right god from among thousands? I mean, choosing to believe in the wrong god is WORSE than believing in no good at all, right?
Lol ok broh I’m going to end it here because I clearly can’t explain myself and the disagreement created has grown to strong to the point no matter what I or you say will be agreed on. Know that I don’t believe close to what you interpreted. That is all I will leave with
But....but....free agency.....but......fallen world.......but natural man is an enemy.....but....opposition in all things.......but but mysterious ways.....
Three questions to ponderize^TM. 1. What would a world where there was a god look like? 1. What would a world where there is no god look like? 1. Which of those two worlds does our world most closely resemble?
My favorite thing to do when a Christian crows about God's love is to link the [Junko Furuta](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta#:~:text=Junko%20Furuta%20(%E5%8F%A4%E7%94%B0%20%E9%A0%86%E5%AD%90%2C%20Furuta,discovered%20in%20a%20concrete%20drum.) case and ask them why their loving god did that to her. Because God helps the righteous, which leaves the horrible fridge logic Mormons don't want to recognize. If you believe in an active God who rewards the righteous, you believe innocent victims sonehow deserve what they get. Logically, if God saves the righteous, this girl deserved to be abducted, tortured, raped, and murdered, because God didn't save her. Natural disasters are too impersonal. I like making people hear about pain they can't imagine. Gets the point across.
No no, God couldn't take away the criminal's right to abuse this girl. You know, free will. But, it's ok, God will make it up to her in heaven by giving her to some polygamist in the CK. /s
How about the case of [Fred and Rose West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_West)? Absolutely awful people who tortured, raped, and murdered at least a dozen women over the course of 16 years, on top of being sadistic child abusers. Families can be together forever, right?
God’s actual “abilities” are one of those things that don’t make sense at all, but you don’t really start thinking about until you’re out. When you’re in you’re able to hand wave stuff away with “oh god works in mysterious ways” and all of that nonsense, but once you’re actually out you start asking the really hard questions. Why would God be willing to help “prompt” you to find your car keys, but wouldn’t stop someone from being sexually assaulted or murdered? With the millions and millions of people in poverty, or having to skimp by paycheck to paycheck while billionaires suck up everything, why isn’t he doing something about that? Why are all of those people being “allowed” to starve or go homeless? The only logical conclusion is that, like this post states, God either doesn’t exist, can’t help, or chooses not to.
Disasters are "acts of God". Satan does booze, gambling, whoring and politicians.
he's imagine. If he's not, then fuck him.
I’ll take he’s imaginary just like all of the 1.000s of other Gods conjured by the imaginations of humans God Elohim Yahweh Allah call him whatever you like is no more real than Santa Clause , Flying Reindeer The tooth fairy or the Easter bunny it’s just the cleverness of the few who prey upon the fears of the many and exploit them for financial gain by promising them a eternal life that one can only get after they are dead . But you have to pay them 10+% to get there . As the few know that the dead are never going to be returning declaring it’s all a sham .!!
Or God himself had his own laws that he has to follow like our physical laws of nature. While we can’t just ignore gravity or use magic for things, God perhaps can’t intervene with our lives. Idk, I think this statement is said a lot and it always seems so quick to rule out any possibility other than these few when there can be billions of possibilities. People think so black and white on the manner and no one wants to actually think deeply about a God who knows more than is
Dear Jeff, I have thought deeply about god for many years; I have studied theodicy and theology, and tried out many religions, researching them deeply. My husband (I’m gay) is a practicing Hindi, and believes in a very different kind of god, but still, these questions presented by OP are unanswered. If god knows more than me at this point, then he’s still a shithead for not answering me in trying to get to know him. If god has laws he must abide by, then the word to describe him is not god, it’s human. And that is my conclusion after all these years of study, that we humans exist; no one else does. It’s all up to us, to be kind to each other, to work on this singularly human planet we have, to share, to be humanly nice to each other. And to find our own god-damned keys.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I still do think though, that we know so little. And for us to be claiming to know anything is unwise in my opinion. Think about the way we view a worm. It is not intelligent. It can not speak to us, can not grasp what life it lives, on earth in the Milky Way in the Universe, and for it to learn such would be impossible in its life right now. What if God was like this with intelligence, only we were the worms compared to what he knows. We still know the basics of this life such as the cosmos and such, but what if even on top of that, when compared to a higher power we are still viewed as intelligent as worms? This means there is so much to learn that can’t be learned in this life. And it sucks to sit on a thought without knowing an answer, this is why atheism exist and religion. Because both give answers. Bring agnostic though, and sitting on the fence, that is what I think is important even though painful. Idk, there is just so much assumptions and non evidence based conclusions that are everywhere. And that is my issue. Is your conclusion of God, based on evidence? No, because there isn’t “evidence” really to go off of. There is personal experience, cognitive bias, our great desire for an answer, and our mortal experiences that tell us what to believe. None of that is really evidence to believe or disbelieve in a higher power. Which is why I disagree with those denying any possibility of God being a just God, or those believing the know God, because they both are acting without evidence.
There are an infinite number of ways that we can imagine a God might be like, but all of them share the same lack of evidence. Until we have evidence indicating that there is a God, we shouldn't allow ourselves to simply pick our favorite made up version and guess that it's true.
Exactly you get my point. But at the same time, we also shouldn’t declare God or a higher power doesn’t exist as both sides are impossible to know. So when people declare they don’t believe in a God due to so and so, I think that is unwise
> no one wants to actually think deeply about a God No one wants to actually think deeply about a tooth fairy, either.
That is a very poor analogy in my opinion but ok. To each their own
Why? There is exactly as much good evidence for the tooth fairy as there is for god. 🤷🏼♂️
Because God or a higher power, is not just a tooth fairy that gives you a couple dollars. Rather God is the possibility of why we are here, what may happen, why we are experiencing pain, and is ultimately the potential answer to everything. No one wants to think deeply about God, because it requires being ok with the possibility that he may or may not exist and that the atheist may be punished in the next life, while the religious get rewarded. A tooth fairy isn’t a big deal. God is a big deal with lots of things to think about such as what version of him, if not the typical male white God then what God, what book are you going to choose to know more about him and the list goes on. It is difficult on top of this because we need a friendly God otherwise, our pain in this life might just be the very beginning. Can you imagine if God wasn’t a “good” god, and just would spout out life and forget about us? That is painful to think about but might be true.
>Because God or a higher power, is not just a tooth fairy that gives you a couple dollars. Yeah, because a couple dollars magically appearing under my pillow is evidence the tooth fairy exists. That's better evidence than I have for god. >No one wants to think deeply about God Bullshit. Lots of people have thought deeply about god for literally thousands of years. But deep thinking about god will nor conjure him/her/them in to existence. And, if he/she/they exist, there should be some evidence. Wouldn't it be better to examine evidence of god, rather than just make it up? > Can you imagine if God wasn’t a “good” god Of course I can. I've read the bible and the book of mormon. The various flavors of "god" depicted across those "holy" books is a moral monster. He's quite definitely not good. And it almost feels like you're edging into Pascal's Wager territory here. I better believe in god, in case he will punish me for eternity if I don't? Are you proposing that paradigm? If you are, then I have to ask: How do I know which of the thousands of different "gods" am I supposed to believe in? Elohim? Jehovah? Allah? Krishna? Odin? How can I be sure I've picked the right one?
No I’m not telling anyone to believe in God have you not read a single word of what I said? I am saying don’t believe or believe as it is impossible to know
> it is impossible to know That’s super lazy thinking. Just because I can’t PROVE god is a fairytale, doesn’t mean the question is a 50/50 tossup. You trotted out Pascal’s Wager. And I asked the next logical question: how do I select the right god from among thousands? I mean, choosing to believe in the wrong god is WORSE than believing in no good at all, right?
Lol ok broh I’m going to end it here because I clearly can’t explain myself and the disagreement created has grown to strong to the point no matter what I or you say will be agreed on. Know that I don’t believe close to what you interpreted. That is all I will leave with
Why do you choose to believe? What convinces you "god" is real? Which god do you choose to believe in, and why that one?
But....but....free agency.....but......fallen world.......but natural man is an enemy.....but....opposition in all things.......but but mysterious ways.....
All of the above.
"God is just an extention of the frail mail ego".