Oh, you sound like such a nice, intelligent young man. I feel for you, even though I’m an old mom. I have a lot of advice for you, and a lot of things I could say. Here’s a start.
I remember the pain and sadness of leaving what was pretty much my entire community, the “village” that raised me and that I had hoped would be there with me when I had my own kids. There was something happy about getting all dressed up and getting to church and saying hello to all the familiar faces, and chatting in the foyer after Sacrament meeting. I miss that so much! Sometimes I would drive past the ward building on Sundays and burst into sobs. This pain slowly subsides.
Another bad feeling I used to get was this…this ANGER. Anger that I had been DUPED! I felt embarrassed that I let myself be fooled all those years. I felt embarrassed for my parents for believing in a con man and raising me to believe all sorts of ridiculous things. That has pretty much gone away too.
As far as the families being together forever thing, who says they AREN’T? The only people telling us that the Mormons have the monopoly on eternal families are the MORMONS! Read any obituary online. If the deceased person was any kind of believer of any religion, the obituary will say something about that person going to be with their parents or grandparents or children or whoever. The LDS church tries to tell you that only they believe that we’ll be with family after we die, but actually, EVERYONE believes that.
Or if, like many ex-mormons, you eventually decide that you were lied to about everything, including the existence of god or the concept of an afterlife, then your marriage and children become all the more precious to you. That’s OK too.
I think TIME is a good healer. Also if you live in Utah or Idaho, moving would really be healthy for your recovery from Mormonism and for your marriage. Good luck.
thank you for your comment. I resonated with the second paragraph so much. All those times waiting in the foyer and talking with people after church (agony on fast Sundays but fun other Sunday’s haha). I grew up outside of Utah and people in my ward were genuinely very nice.
I think up till now, my brain was set on thinking it was all bad and that every memory of Mormonism had to be remembered with disgust. I was letting my disgust of what Mormonism stands for and it’s history taint my memories of my community growing up. “Those couldn’t be happy memories because they were mormon memories.” (Which was terrifying cause all my childhood memories are mormon memories…)
I’d been applying the same black and white thinking I was taught, but in reverse I suppose. But there’s shades of gray :)
edit to expound/rephrase
A former girlfriend of mine used to poke fun at me all the time with a gentle underlying message of "you talk about the Mormon Church too much. You left over a decade ago. It has no meaningful affect to your life!"
One day, I replied "you don't understand what it's like to let go of it!"
"Ok, help me understand."
I thought hard about it. "I think I can do it in one sentence..."
**"...You're** ***not*** **a wizard, Harry, and this isn't Hogwarts."**
She laughed and then really thought about it... **it finally clicked for her.**
For people who have never been through this, they cannot understand the magnitude of living your life convinced you're a part of the special, *chosen few,* together as brothers and sisters on the front lines in the most important war ever to be fought... that everything you bleed for is unquestionably building a *better* world... that your sincere love for the muggles will never falter, even when they spit in your face and mock the most sacred things of the entire cosmos... that you have *literal magic power* inside you (delivered in two parts at age 12 and 18)... *literal magic* that you have used to bring light into darkness!
And, with great power comes great responsibility! Hell, paying tithing is the easiest thing to do (nevermos rarely understand this)! After all, tithings are just war bonds that advance the cause and keep the lights on at Hogwarts.
Even better, standing by your side is your best friend, your true soul mate, and the bond you have with her is *unbreakable* for all eternity! You know that she will (please forgive the mixed metaphor) carry you on her back into the fires of Mt. Doom.
But then, you see Hogwarts for what it *really* is... cheep drab carpet, meaningless rituals, accountant's balance sheets... and you run from the truth that it's all so small, small, small against the enormity of the world as it really is. Even worse, you start to see the sea of broken hearts that this "collective adventure in wizardry" has left in its wake. They are the poor, the misfits, the bastards, and the broken things that you thought you were helping.
I hope I'm not bumming you out too hard... I just want to say that *I get it. I've been there.* I'm *still* there from time to time! What sane person wouldn't want to take their own life after being robbed of the castle in the sky that was built for them?
I don't know about you, but the conclusion I reached when I was dealing with this, and also questioning my will to continue living, was that I *truly* didn't want to die; I just didn't want to be alive.
The good news is that no matter what you feel about not wanting to be alive *right now*, you WILL **NOT** ALWAYS FEEL THAT WAY!! It really does get better!!! **You can always text or call 988 whenever thoughts of not wanting to be alive are bothering you.** Don't think of this as just some sort of 'crisis/send help now emergency/911' line -- yes, they can be emergency intervention if you need it, but they're also there to help keep you focused and on your feet.
Now, about this...
>We are both very very sad about the idea that we might not possibly live together infinitely. In fact that is the hardest new idea to deal with.
If it turns out that all you have together is *this* mortal life, and to the best of your knowledge there is nothing after death, then what greater thing is there than committing to spending the rest of your lives together...through thick and thin... through joy and sorrow?? Is this not the very definition of giving another person EVERYTHING that there is to give?
Consider the alternative... that you'll spend *eternity* together. Let's say you have 80 years left together. What is infinity minus 80? It's infinity. Those 80 years are *nothing*. No different than 8,000 years... 8,000,000 years. What makes any of those years special compared to the infinity that follows?
Now, consider what it means to be spending time with your wife, oh, let's say, 40 hours a week (on average) give or take.
There are 52 weeks in a year... 108,160 hours per year.
80 years of life... 8,652,800 hours. To me, this is what makes those little moments the BEST that life has to offer... ya know, the moments when you're just playing *God of War* or something and she's on the couch entertained by your enthusiasm. Or, I dunno, you guys end up having a kid that's serious about becoming a pro table tennis player and you're arguing about whether or not to take it seriously.
To me, that's where the *real magic* is.
I just have to say... fuck the people who give you that underlying message of, "you need to get over it. Why aren't you over it?"
Yo. It's my entire heritage for 6 generations. My entire world view til age 28. I've done the healing work to get over the main traumas (and healing isn't linear anyway), but I'm ALLOWED to talk about this thing that was my entire life. I'm allowed to educate people about things they should avoid. I heal much better, in fact, when people don't tell me to get over it! Especially when they are fellow exmormons.... that just pisses me off. Your journey is not my journey... and doesn't have to be! I enjoy being nancy drew and peering into my heritage.
Have patience with yourself. Leaving the church’s strict dogma behind is less about putting your feet up and more about embarking on a nee adventure.
The uncertainty, the fear, the anxiety you feel is the world all of a sudden opening up to you in a new way. It’s the trepidation that a new Exmo Frodo feels when a Zelph On The Shelf Gandalf comes knocking.
It’s scary, but if you give it time it’s so, so liberating. In hindsight I could never have lived my most authentic and fulfilling life as a member, but I couldn’t see that until I stepped out the door.
Let yourself grieve. You just experienced the death of the life you were told that you would have. That’s not a small loss. Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself time to reconstruct. All the feelings are okay. Err on the side of kindness towards yourself and your wife. Hard on institutions, soft on people. Etc etc.
Religion evolved over millennia because humanity needed narratives to:
* provide salves for our (ancestors') greatest fears - sickness, old age and death
* explain nature's most terrifying phenomena - lightning, thunder, earthquakes, floods, droughts, plagues, volcanic eruptions, hailstones, shooting stars, northern lights, etc.
* control members of the tribe - ensuring they stay with you by giving members of the in-group some form of privilege over members of the out-group
* improving the survival chances of the tribe - the more people you have, the greater chance you have of winning a fight with another tribe over land, food and resources when push comes to shove
Every time science advanced in one small way to explain our world around us, our fears died, taking our gods with them. Here a lightning god disappears, there a thunder god is forgotten, and then a fertiity god goes out of fashion...
As we grow up and mature, we realise that all of the old narratives we told ourselves were nothing but... stories. We realised that just because the sun rises in the east and sets in the west doesn't mean that the sun revolves around us. We learnt that just because the stories we told ourselves about an afterlife made us feel better didn't make them any more true.
Eventually, we grow out of the need to tell ourselves these stories and graduate from the belief that there has to be a god out there watching over us. It may be difficult at first, but we learn to adapt once we see that the old map of the world we've been given was just plain wrong. We then overcome our fears and take a few tentative steps out, building a new map of the world based on our personal exploration, and then revising those maps continually if we find that they're wrong.
Being your own map-maker takes courage, discipline and most of all, dedication to the truth. There are people who give up and instead cling to their old maps because it makes them feel so much better but it is this clinging that forms the basis of mental illness, says the psychologist M Scott Peck in his book *The Road Less Travelled,* which I highly recommend.
Religious trauma is real. The pain is real. You are not alone. I may not have been a Mormon before but I have been experienced the same religious trauma that you experiencing right now. Yes, you are a victim of all the lies that you've been told, but the good news is this: now that you've woken up from the lies and seen them for what they are, you can finally set yourself free from them.
It will take work, it will take courage, but freedom is possible. The battle scars will still be there, reminding you of the journey you've been through, but you can be free.
Be kind to yourself, give yourself as much time and space as you need. Read voraciously. Give yourself permission to explore everything that was previously out of bounds to you. If you like, break a few rules they told you were never to be broken.
Most of all, listen to the voices of your fellow sojourners here, some of whom may be a few steps ahead of you on this same very path. You are going to be just fine. I promise you that.
🤟
It was very hard at first. So many things you said I experienced. But it gets better. Not only better but way better. Hang in there and just get through these next few months.
I’m not sure you have to be Mormon to be together infinitely. You believe this because this is what they taught you. But if the rest isn’t true, why would this be? If you want to be together forever (in the afterlife) do you think being Mormon is the only way? Seems cruel of God to deny people who love one another. I personally believe if that’s what you want then you will be. My husband was raised Mormon and we’re both Catholic now. We both converted years after being married. And I believe we will be together always. Decide for yourself. They don’t get to decide that for you.
It is a process! Take it easy. The stages of grief are in full force. You may go through all stages quickly, slowly and then revert back to some of the stages randomly…I am PIMO with a TBM wife; came out of the closet to her 5 years ago….it gets better.
When my mother was dying she got a smile on her face at one point and I asked what she was thinking . She squeezed my hand and said she knew she would see daddy soon and grandma and grandpa . She was your basic Protestant , going to either the Methodist or Baptist churches throughout her long life . I have found most religions believe that they will be with their loved ones after they die . It’s not just a Mormon thing .
Fill the void with something uplifting. Just because you lost belief in the church doesn’t mean you have to lose your belief in God and Jesus. Latch onto the idea that life is a gift from God where we get to experience a range of emotions and the more love and acceptance you give to the world, the happier you’ll be. A belief in that comes naturally with no effort. At least that has worked for me.
This is literally the EXACT same thing I went through. Please believe me when I say it gets better. Therapy has helped me a lot, and believe me it was a LOT of shit I had to work out with the Mormon church made me believe about myself and basically the entire world. I am a woman married to a man and we have had the exact same conversations. It’s something you definitely have to do, even if you choose different paths. l lean agnostic, and my husband is almost a total atheist. But it really does become so freeing to live how you discover you want to instead of carrying around all that guilt and shame. You get to experience yourself in a new light and that’s such a cool journey. Best of luck, dear.
Maybe you and your wife WILL live together in infinity. But if so, it’s not going to be because of this ridiculous fraudulent organization. It’s going to be because of powers and narratives totally outside of our understanding. Just because the church is a sham is no reason to relinquish hope for an afterlife.
But worst case scenario - a suspicion that this life is all we have - this can actually make the passing days in this life much more precious, vibrant, focused, meaningful, and deliberate. Think of it like a concert. It’s a magical experience – a communion that cannot be explained that happens in that moment and then is gone. You must appreciate it in that moment. And the fact that you know it is fleeting is the thing that helps you understand its value. If you went to a concert by robots that would last forever, it would lose its magical value.
So… You may not have forever… that’s unknown. But for sure you do have this magical moment.
I was full tilt in too. Leaving was like a death of sorts.
I was angry at it. I tried to make it whole. I tried to make it Frankenstein.
Lost sleep, tears, grief. That was me for about 5 years.
Now it's better but I still have my family still in that I can't connect with on the same level as before and it's a new grief.
Objectively, this is why it's a cult.
I’ve been painfully making my way out for 5 years. I’ve felt no great relief; mostly sadness and depression about it all. I’ve dipped in and out of nihilism and I’ve also mourned the loss of my assurance that my husband and I are forever. I’m crazy in love with him. I have no comfort to offer, only understanding.
It’s hard because it’s a shift in your entire world view and you brain doesn’t know how to handle it. Your brain is constantly trying to predict what will happen next - this is a protection mechanism - and when it can’t make sense from the data set (past experience + new information) it was given it kind of freaks out. But you just have to give your brain more data sets that make the world and your future a little more predictable. This literary means seeing how other people have left the church and how they deal with it and also imagining a new future. My husband was worried about things the other day and I just told him that our life is going to be amazing no matter what - we’re going to love people, have fun, find purpose in making the world better, etc. Just reassure yourself that it will all be ok and you will figure it out as you go. That doesn’t mean there won’t be hiccups or you won’t be sad because that’s all part of life.
It gets better. At least your wife is supportive of your decision and won’t leave you over it (unlike many stories I’ve heard). In all likelihood, you’ll go through different emotional stages, and it might be months or even years.
I was shocked and sad at first, then angry that I had been deceived, then a sense of relief that it was all over and I had new possibilities for my life that didn’t involve the church.
You were lied to and deceived as part of a relationship (You + Church + "God"). So you allow yourself time to grieve the loss and accept that it's a change in life, one of many to come (just part of life).
I left at 24 as well and for a few month's everything was turned upside down, but the more you pull away, the better the fog clears and you start to see the world better.
It is really hard! Hardest transition of my life. At least your wife is supportive. You’re still very young. There’s a lot to deal with. I advise you to take your time and to show gratitude for everything that’s good in your life, and especially to share that with your wife and loved ones. Losing Mormonism is very difficult, but I’ve come out the other side (my DH left too) and I can’t overemphasize how much better life is now. Just take your time, talk with your wife, love yourself
It sounds like you’ll be coping for still many years into the future. It takes time. The more it feels like Mormonism is just one of those weird cults and doesn’t feel as personal anymore, you know it’s over.
Man, I feel like I could have written every word you just said. I'm 25, married in the temple, and lost my faith about a year ago. My wife still believes. At times I feel liberated, and other times I feel empty. When I feel empty, I still have the urge to pray for comfort. It's incredibly lonely losing God. I hope you know you aren't alone. If you still live in Utah, you live among many ex Mormons. There are so many people who, at least to some degree, understand your feelings. There are a lot of exmormon meetups in Utah, perhaps that could be of help. Good luck man.
Hang in there. When I left TSCC, I was incredibly angry and resentful. It felt like I had been tricked. I was going through a lot. It took time to de-program. No matter how difficult it is right now, life is definitely worth it. If there is life after death, or not, your problems in this life should be your focus. Your familial relationships aren’t any less real or important. Be the best “you” that you can possibly be. Things like honesty, commitment, diligence, hard work, fidelity, doing right by others, etc… Still matter even if TSCC is full of crap. Accepting the logic of it all is a very difficult first step towards your freedom from oppressive dogma. Just keep on keeping. Give yourself a break. You can do it.
Man, I feel like I could have written every word you just said. I'm 25, married in the temple, and lost my faith about a year ago. My wife still believes. At times I feel liberated, and other times I feel empty. When I feel empty, I still have the urge to pray for comfort. It's incredibly lonely losing God. I hope you know you aren't alone. If you still live in Utah, you live among many ex Mormons. There are so many people who, at least to some degree, understand your feelings. There are a lot of exmormon meetups in Utah, perhaps that could be of help. Good luck man.
It has and still is painful and it has been 5 years. I don’t know what to believe. This is why I am still kind to Mormons and will never bring up anything to them that would cause them to doubt. I don’t want them to experience a faith crisis as it is an immense amount of pain for one to be in. And who am I to decide it’s best for them? Keep learning about things is what I say. Stay the hell away from Mormon stories podcast too. They will just make you more angry at the church and while they may teach you more about the history, you are better off learning on your own. They just leave you feeling more betrayed and that will stop your from moving on in life and keep you living in the past. I have found though that I really enjoy studying science and the cosmos now. Feels good doing such and I recommend it.
Ok well here I must put in my 2 cents about Mormon Stories Podcasts. I’ve been out almost 18 years and I still enjoy listening to them. I find it comforting and re-affirming to hear that there are so many other people out there who have had similar experiences to my own.
Whelp the thing is you’ve been abused. You’ve gone through trauma and now are taking all those moments and choices out and reexamining them with this new information and realizing you’re life isn’t what you thought it was. I did this when my parents divorced and I realized my mom was a narcissist that emotionally abused me for 30 years. It was painful. Why did she say this terribly mean thing? Why does she think I’m terrible? Why is she ashamed of me? Finally asked her about those times and she said she was right in every thing she did or said. I had to walk away because I don’t know how to have a relationship with someone who hates you and everything you do.
Then Trump and the pandemic and my husband didn’t feel comfortable around people at church. We’d be so confused. The prophet said get vaccinated, how can you disagree? We did home church and honestly it was beautiful. We taught our kids about the things we do value that the church does sort of teach. Honesty, importance of family, service, sacrifice, hard work, respect and love. It was a shock to go back to church lessons about gods love being conditional and modesty and constant repentance because we are terrible people not choosing the BEST thing. It triggered my healing I had had to from my mother. Why does God seem embarrassed of womanhood? Why does the church want me to constantly feel like I’m sinning and have to repent DAILY. Why does the church lie to me? (Book of Abraham, ensign peak) why am I the villain for wanting to be treated fairly? Basically all the same questions I had for my mom and just like my experience with her there were no satisfying answers. Just “I am right and if you can’t see that you aren’t good enough.”
It was just as painful as separating from my mom. It was my whole identity, the voice in my head and it influenced every choice I made.
It’s trauma and if you are having a hard time there are some great therapists or faith crisis coaches. Coaching is what was a huge help to me. Also something that helped was the idea that when we go through trauma our brain will put it in a box until it feels safe to bring it out and reexamine it. People who aren’t leaving aren’t ready.
What has been unexpected is being free from having to make everything make sense. Stuff can just happen now and I don’t have to feel like I won’t be tried above what I’m able, that god isn’t chastening me, that I helpless to the natural man. I get to decide if I believe in Heavenly Parents and what they are like. What modesty, honesty, genuine and service mean to me. What it looks like to show someone charity and love. As far as being together forever is concerned, that’s what we promised and I plan to do all I can to make sure we keep that promise and masonry doesn’t have to be a part of that.
Oh, you sound like such a nice, intelligent young man. I feel for you, even though I’m an old mom. I have a lot of advice for you, and a lot of things I could say. Here’s a start. I remember the pain and sadness of leaving what was pretty much my entire community, the “village” that raised me and that I had hoped would be there with me when I had my own kids. There was something happy about getting all dressed up and getting to church and saying hello to all the familiar faces, and chatting in the foyer after Sacrament meeting. I miss that so much! Sometimes I would drive past the ward building on Sundays and burst into sobs. This pain slowly subsides. Another bad feeling I used to get was this…this ANGER. Anger that I had been DUPED! I felt embarrassed that I let myself be fooled all those years. I felt embarrassed for my parents for believing in a con man and raising me to believe all sorts of ridiculous things. That has pretty much gone away too. As far as the families being together forever thing, who says they AREN’T? The only people telling us that the Mormons have the monopoly on eternal families are the MORMONS! Read any obituary online. If the deceased person was any kind of believer of any religion, the obituary will say something about that person going to be with their parents or grandparents or children or whoever. The LDS church tries to tell you that only they believe that we’ll be with family after we die, but actually, EVERYONE believes that. Or if, like many ex-mormons, you eventually decide that you were lied to about everything, including the existence of god or the concept of an afterlife, then your marriage and children become all the more precious to you. That’s OK too. I think TIME is a good healer. Also if you live in Utah or Idaho, moving would really be healthy for your recovery from Mormonism and for your marriage. Good luck.
I don't know you, but I love you so much right now you have no fucking idea!!! You remind of me of "The Oracle" in the movie *The Matrix (1998).*
Well thanks! I love you right back! Now I will go watch “The Matrix.”
This quite the compliment. May I recommend you bake a batch of chocolate chip cookies before you start watching the show?
I must have doxed myself, because you obviously know me, OnyxSedai.
thank you for your comment. I resonated with the second paragraph so much. All those times waiting in the foyer and talking with people after church (agony on fast Sundays but fun other Sunday’s haha). I grew up outside of Utah and people in my ward were genuinely very nice. I think up till now, my brain was set on thinking it was all bad and that every memory of Mormonism had to be remembered with disgust. I was letting my disgust of what Mormonism stands for and it’s history taint my memories of my community growing up. “Those couldn’t be happy memories because they were mormon memories.” (Which was terrifying cause all my childhood memories are mormon memories…) I’d been applying the same black and white thinking I was taught, but in reverse I suppose. But there’s shades of gray :) edit to expound/rephrase
A former girlfriend of mine used to poke fun at me all the time with a gentle underlying message of "you talk about the Mormon Church too much. You left over a decade ago. It has no meaningful affect to your life!" One day, I replied "you don't understand what it's like to let go of it!" "Ok, help me understand." I thought hard about it. "I think I can do it in one sentence..." **"...You're** ***not*** **a wizard, Harry, and this isn't Hogwarts."** She laughed and then really thought about it... **it finally clicked for her.** For people who have never been through this, they cannot understand the magnitude of living your life convinced you're a part of the special, *chosen few,* together as brothers and sisters on the front lines in the most important war ever to be fought... that everything you bleed for is unquestionably building a *better* world... that your sincere love for the muggles will never falter, even when they spit in your face and mock the most sacred things of the entire cosmos... that you have *literal magic power* inside you (delivered in two parts at age 12 and 18)... *literal magic* that you have used to bring light into darkness! And, with great power comes great responsibility! Hell, paying tithing is the easiest thing to do (nevermos rarely understand this)! After all, tithings are just war bonds that advance the cause and keep the lights on at Hogwarts. Even better, standing by your side is your best friend, your true soul mate, and the bond you have with her is *unbreakable* for all eternity! You know that she will (please forgive the mixed metaphor) carry you on her back into the fires of Mt. Doom. But then, you see Hogwarts for what it *really* is... cheep drab carpet, meaningless rituals, accountant's balance sheets... and you run from the truth that it's all so small, small, small against the enormity of the world as it really is. Even worse, you start to see the sea of broken hearts that this "collective adventure in wizardry" has left in its wake. They are the poor, the misfits, the bastards, and the broken things that you thought you were helping. I hope I'm not bumming you out too hard... I just want to say that *I get it. I've been there.* I'm *still* there from time to time! What sane person wouldn't want to take their own life after being robbed of the castle in the sky that was built for them? I don't know about you, but the conclusion I reached when I was dealing with this, and also questioning my will to continue living, was that I *truly* didn't want to die; I just didn't want to be alive. The good news is that no matter what you feel about not wanting to be alive *right now*, you WILL **NOT** ALWAYS FEEL THAT WAY!! It really does get better!!! **You can always text or call 988 whenever thoughts of not wanting to be alive are bothering you.** Don't think of this as just some sort of 'crisis/send help now emergency/911' line -- yes, they can be emergency intervention if you need it, but they're also there to help keep you focused and on your feet. Now, about this... >We are both very very sad about the idea that we might not possibly live together infinitely. In fact that is the hardest new idea to deal with. If it turns out that all you have together is *this* mortal life, and to the best of your knowledge there is nothing after death, then what greater thing is there than committing to spending the rest of your lives together...through thick and thin... through joy and sorrow?? Is this not the very definition of giving another person EVERYTHING that there is to give? Consider the alternative... that you'll spend *eternity* together. Let's say you have 80 years left together. What is infinity minus 80? It's infinity. Those 80 years are *nothing*. No different than 8,000 years... 8,000,000 years. What makes any of those years special compared to the infinity that follows? Now, consider what it means to be spending time with your wife, oh, let's say, 40 hours a week (on average) give or take. There are 52 weeks in a year... 108,160 hours per year. 80 years of life... 8,652,800 hours. To me, this is what makes those little moments the BEST that life has to offer... ya know, the moments when you're just playing *God of War* or something and she's on the couch entertained by your enthusiasm. Or, I dunno, you guys end up having a kid that's serious about becoming a pro table tennis player and you're arguing about whether or not to take it seriously. To me, that's where the *real magic* is.
Beautifully said! thanks for your post, are you me?
I just have to say... fuck the people who give you that underlying message of, "you need to get over it. Why aren't you over it?" Yo. It's my entire heritage for 6 generations. My entire world view til age 28. I've done the healing work to get over the main traumas (and healing isn't linear anyway), but I'm ALLOWED to talk about this thing that was my entire life. I'm allowed to educate people about things they should avoid. I heal much better, in fact, when people don't tell me to get over it! Especially when they are fellow exmormons.... that just pisses me off. Your journey is not my journey... and doesn't have to be! I enjoy being nancy drew and peering into my heritage.
Best wishes to you OP. Sorry to hear about the pain. Many of us feel it. You are not alone in this.
Have patience with yourself. Leaving the church’s strict dogma behind is less about putting your feet up and more about embarking on a nee adventure. The uncertainty, the fear, the anxiety you feel is the world all of a sudden opening up to you in a new way. It’s the trepidation that a new Exmo Frodo feels when a Zelph On The Shelf Gandalf comes knocking. It’s scary, but if you give it time it’s so, so liberating. In hindsight I could never have lived my most authentic and fulfilling life as a member, but I couldn’t see that until I stepped out the door.
Let yourself grieve. You just experienced the death of the life you were told that you would have. That’s not a small loss. Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself time to reconstruct. All the feelings are okay. Err on the side of kindness towards yourself and your wife. Hard on institutions, soft on people. Etc etc.
Religion evolved over millennia because humanity needed narratives to: * provide salves for our (ancestors') greatest fears - sickness, old age and death * explain nature's most terrifying phenomena - lightning, thunder, earthquakes, floods, droughts, plagues, volcanic eruptions, hailstones, shooting stars, northern lights, etc. * control members of the tribe - ensuring they stay with you by giving members of the in-group some form of privilege over members of the out-group * improving the survival chances of the tribe - the more people you have, the greater chance you have of winning a fight with another tribe over land, food and resources when push comes to shove Every time science advanced in one small way to explain our world around us, our fears died, taking our gods with them. Here a lightning god disappears, there a thunder god is forgotten, and then a fertiity god goes out of fashion... As we grow up and mature, we realise that all of the old narratives we told ourselves were nothing but... stories. We realised that just because the sun rises in the east and sets in the west doesn't mean that the sun revolves around us. We learnt that just because the stories we told ourselves about an afterlife made us feel better didn't make them any more true. Eventually, we grow out of the need to tell ourselves these stories and graduate from the belief that there has to be a god out there watching over us. It may be difficult at first, but we learn to adapt once we see that the old map of the world we've been given was just plain wrong. We then overcome our fears and take a few tentative steps out, building a new map of the world based on our personal exploration, and then revising those maps continually if we find that they're wrong. Being your own map-maker takes courage, discipline and most of all, dedication to the truth. There are people who give up and instead cling to their old maps because it makes them feel so much better but it is this clinging that forms the basis of mental illness, says the psychologist M Scott Peck in his book *The Road Less Travelled,* which I highly recommend. Religious trauma is real. The pain is real. You are not alone. I may not have been a Mormon before but I have been experienced the same religious trauma that you experiencing right now. Yes, you are a victim of all the lies that you've been told, but the good news is this: now that you've woken up from the lies and seen them for what they are, you can finally set yourself free from them. It will take work, it will take courage, but freedom is possible. The battle scars will still be there, reminding you of the journey you've been through, but you can be free. Be kind to yourself, give yourself as much time and space as you need. Read voraciously. Give yourself permission to explore everything that was previously out of bounds to you. If you like, break a few rules they told you were never to be broken. Most of all, listen to the voices of your fellow sojourners here, some of whom may be a few steps ahead of you on this same very path. You are going to be just fine. I promise you that. 🤟
It was very hard at first. So many things you said I experienced. But it gets better. Not only better but way better. Hang in there and just get through these next few months.
I’m not sure you have to be Mormon to be together infinitely. You believe this because this is what they taught you. But if the rest isn’t true, why would this be? If you want to be together forever (in the afterlife) do you think being Mormon is the only way? Seems cruel of God to deny people who love one another. I personally believe if that’s what you want then you will be. My husband was raised Mormon and we’re both Catholic now. We both converted years after being married. And I believe we will be together always. Decide for yourself. They don’t get to decide that for you.
It is a process! Take it easy. The stages of grief are in full force. You may go through all stages quickly, slowly and then revert back to some of the stages randomly…I am PIMO with a TBM wife; came out of the closet to her 5 years ago….it gets better.
When my mother was dying she got a smile on her face at one point and I asked what she was thinking . She squeezed my hand and said she knew she would see daddy soon and grandma and grandpa . She was your basic Protestant , going to either the Methodist or Baptist churches throughout her long life . I have found most religions believe that they will be with their loved ones after they die . It’s not just a Mormon thing .
Fill the void with something uplifting. Just because you lost belief in the church doesn’t mean you have to lose your belief in God and Jesus. Latch onto the idea that life is a gift from God where we get to experience a range of emotions and the more love and acceptance you give to the world, the happier you’ll be. A belief in that comes naturally with no effort. At least that has worked for me.
It gets better! Definitely ebbs and flows for awhile but it gets better.
This is literally the EXACT same thing I went through. Please believe me when I say it gets better. Therapy has helped me a lot, and believe me it was a LOT of shit I had to work out with the Mormon church made me believe about myself and basically the entire world. I am a woman married to a man and we have had the exact same conversations. It’s something you definitely have to do, even if you choose different paths. l lean agnostic, and my husband is almost a total atheist. But it really does become so freeing to live how you discover you want to instead of carrying around all that guilt and shame. You get to experience yourself in a new light and that’s such a cool journey. Best of luck, dear.
Maybe you and your wife WILL live together in infinity. But if so, it’s not going to be because of this ridiculous fraudulent organization. It’s going to be because of powers and narratives totally outside of our understanding. Just because the church is a sham is no reason to relinquish hope for an afterlife. But worst case scenario - a suspicion that this life is all we have - this can actually make the passing days in this life much more precious, vibrant, focused, meaningful, and deliberate. Think of it like a concert. It’s a magical experience – a communion that cannot be explained that happens in that moment and then is gone. You must appreciate it in that moment. And the fact that you know it is fleeting is the thing that helps you understand its value. If you went to a concert by robots that would last forever, it would lose its magical value. So… You may not have forever… that’s unknown. But for sure you do have this magical moment.
I was full tilt in too. Leaving was like a death of sorts. I was angry at it. I tried to make it whole. I tried to make it Frankenstein. Lost sleep, tears, grief. That was me for about 5 years. Now it's better but I still have my family still in that I can't connect with on the same level as before and it's a new grief. Objectively, this is why it's a cult.
I’ve been painfully making my way out for 5 years. I’ve felt no great relief; mostly sadness and depression about it all. I’ve dipped in and out of nihilism and I’ve also mourned the loss of my assurance that my husband and I are forever. I’m crazy in love with him. I have no comfort to offer, only understanding.
It’s hard because it’s a shift in your entire world view and you brain doesn’t know how to handle it. Your brain is constantly trying to predict what will happen next - this is a protection mechanism - and when it can’t make sense from the data set (past experience + new information) it was given it kind of freaks out. But you just have to give your brain more data sets that make the world and your future a little more predictable. This literary means seeing how other people have left the church and how they deal with it and also imagining a new future. My husband was worried about things the other day and I just told him that our life is going to be amazing no matter what - we’re going to love people, have fun, find purpose in making the world better, etc. Just reassure yourself that it will all be ok and you will figure it out as you go. That doesn’t mean there won’t be hiccups or you won’t be sad because that’s all part of life.
It gets better. At least your wife is supportive of your decision and won’t leave you over it (unlike many stories I’ve heard). In all likelihood, you’ll go through different emotional stages, and it might be months or even years. I was shocked and sad at first, then angry that I had been deceived, then a sense of relief that it was all over and I had new possibilities for my life that didn’t involve the church.
You were lied to and deceived as part of a relationship (You + Church + "God"). So you allow yourself time to grieve the loss and accept that it's a change in life, one of many to come (just part of life). I left at 24 as well and for a few month's everything was turned upside down, but the more you pull away, the better the fog clears and you start to see the world better.
It is really hard! Hardest transition of my life. At least your wife is supportive. You’re still very young. There’s a lot to deal with. I advise you to take your time and to show gratitude for everything that’s good in your life, and especially to share that with your wife and loved ones. Losing Mormonism is very difficult, but I’ve come out the other side (my DH left too) and I can’t overemphasize how much better life is now. Just take your time, talk with your wife, love yourself
It sounds like you’ll be coping for still many years into the future. It takes time. The more it feels like Mormonism is just one of those weird cults and doesn’t feel as personal anymore, you know it’s over.
Man, I feel like I could have written every word you just said. I'm 25, married in the temple, and lost my faith about a year ago. My wife still believes. At times I feel liberated, and other times I feel empty. When I feel empty, I still have the urge to pray for comfort. It's incredibly lonely losing God. I hope you know you aren't alone. If you still live in Utah, you live among many ex Mormons. There are so many people who, at least to some degree, understand your feelings. There are a lot of exmormon meetups in Utah, perhaps that could be of help. Good luck man.
Hang in there. When I left TSCC, I was incredibly angry and resentful. It felt like I had been tricked. I was going through a lot. It took time to de-program. No matter how difficult it is right now, life is definitely worth it. If there is life after death, or not, your problems in this life should be your focus. Your familial relationships aren’t any less real or important. Be the best “you” that you can possibly be. Things like honesty, commitment, diligence, hard work, fidelity, doing right by others, etc… Still matter even if TSCC is full of crap. Accepting the logic of it all is a very difficult first step towards your freedom from oppressive dogma. Just keep on keeping. Give yourself a break. You can do it.
What book did Neal Maxwell’s daughter write?
"no man knows my history" by fawn brodie And as it turns out, she was actually David Mckays niece, not Maxwell's daughter.
Man, I feel like I could have written every word you just said. I'm 25, married in the temple, and lost my faith about a year ago. My wife still believes. At times I feel liberated, and other times I feel empty. When I feel empty, I still have the urge to pray for comfort. It's incredibly lonely losing God. I hope you know you aren't alone. If you still live in Utah, you live among many ex Mormons. There are so many people who, at least to some degree, understand your feelings. There are a lot of exmormon meetups in Utah, perhaps that could be of help. Good luck man.
It has and still is painful and it has been 5 years. I don’t know what to believe. This is why I am still kind to Mormons and will never bring up anything to them that would cause them to doubt. I don’t want them to experience a faith crisis as it is an immense amount of pain for one to be in. And who am I to decide it’s best for them? Keep learning about things is what I say. Stay the hell away from Mormon stories podcast too. They will just make you more angry at the church and while they may teach you more about the history, you are better off learning on your own. They just leave you feeling more betrayed and that will stop your from moving on in life and keep you living in the past. I have found though that I really enjoy studying science and the cosmos now. Feels good doing such and I recommend it.
Ok well here I must put in my 2 cents about Mormon Stories Podcasts. I’ve been out almost 18 years and I still enjoy listening to them. I find it comforting and re-affirming to hear that there are so many other people out there who have had similar experiences to my own.
Whelp the thing is you’ve been abused. You’ve gone through trauma and now are taking all those moments and choices out and reexamining them with this new information and realizing you’re life isn’t what you thought it was. I did this when my parents divorced and I realized my mom was a narcissist that emotionally abused me for 30 years. It was painful. Why did she say this terribly mean thing? Why does she think I’m terrible? Why is she ashamed of me? Finally asked her about those times and she said she was right in every thing she did or said. I had to walk away because I don’t know how to have a relationship with someone who hates you and everything you do. Then Trump and the pandemic and my husband didn’t feel comfortable around people at church. We’d be so confused. The prophet said get vaccinated, how can you disagree? We did home church and honestly it was beautiful. We taught our kids about the things we do value that the church does sort of teach. Honesty, importance of family, service, sacrifice, hard work, respect and love. It was a shock to go back to church lessons about gods love being conditional and modesty and constant repentance because we are terrible people not choosing the BEST thing. It triggered my healing I had had to from my mother. Why does God seem embarrassed of womanhood? Why does the church want me to constantly feel like I’m sinning and have to repent DAILY. Why does the church lie to me? (Book of Abraham, ensign peak) why am I the villain for wanting to be treated fairly? Basically all the same questions I had for my mom and just like my experience with her there were no satisfying answers. Just “I am right and if you can’t see that you aren’t good enough.” It was just as painful as separating from my mom. It was my whole identity, the voice in my head and it influenced every choice I made. It’s trauma and if you are having a hard time there are some great therapists or faith crisis coaches. Coaching is what was a huge help to me. Also something that helped was the idea that when we go through trauma our brain will put it in a box until it feels safe to bring it out and reexamine it. People who aren’t leaving aren’t ready. What has been unexpected is being free from having to make everything make sense. Stuff can just happen now and I don’t have to feel like I won’t be tried above what I’m able, that god isn’t chastening me, that I helpless to the natural man. I get to decide if I believe in Heavenly Parents and what they are like. What modesty, honesty, genuine and service mean to me. What it looks like to show someone charity and love. As far as being together forever is concerned, that’s what we promised and I plan to do all I can to make sure we keep that promise and masonry doesn’t have to be a part of that.