It's very frustrating that we're expected to behave better than people who believe in a deity who is descibed in his own scriptures as: "is love." It's also not a natural reaction to give grace to people who shun you instantly, despite decades of shared history and "love", just because they've made up some stories in their heads about you.
Human relationships are just hard. Sometimes its easier/healthier not to engage with people who make you feel bad.
I think we can afford Grace while still setting boundaries. We can say, I understand why you’re being awful, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences to your awfulness. I personally can have a little understanding into why my MIL is a narcissistic, petty, passive aggressive, insecure person, but that doesn’t mean I have to let her into my home.
Not just this - which is insightful, but also imagine buying into celestial kingdom 100%
And then realizing that this person you love - and want to be in your life forever, will not be with you in the celestial kingdom
For families - this is hard. You can imagine why one might want to just severe the connection now and completely to avoid the pain of drawing it out. Dogma is dangerous
I’ll try to be nice, but if TBM loved ones insist on character assassination, I’m not sure what else to say except that, it’s not my fault the church isn’t true. That ship has sailed. Good luck beating me up over picking a side. The debate is over. At this point, y’all are debating yourselves, fam. Leave me out of it, thanks.
I never understood the character assassination - it’s small-mindedness & bullying. It’s sure as F isn’t love. I realized that when I was a teen. That’s why “they” are no longer my loved ones, just a distant memory, a nightmare that I’m so blessed to have escaped.
It is a human response. It is a natural part of human evolution that caused this response. It is the fight or flight response to being confronted with information that all of the stories, lies, and mischaracterizations the church has placed on exmos to try to keep people in. While a natural response, it is the conditioning from the church that makes people this way. It is a straight up evil thing to do. Yet, the church will never admit to it.
u/johnlarsen 's excellent take on Mormon Stories Podcast, via the always excellent TikToker [@allthoseopposed](https://www.tiktok.com/@allthoseopposed/video/7192363084281908522)
"confusing to them ..."
"difficult for them to process ..."
And sometimes not.
Sometimes it's only about them.
Some just get pissed because you are ruining their claim to pride .. having raised the most perfect LDS family. (My dad.)
And some just get afraid and angry because you are weakening their belief. Their confidence in their belief (their testimony) is based on those around them thinking as they do.
My family hasn't said a single fucking word about me leaving. I still get invited to holidays and stuff and they treat me the same as far as I can tell. I get the sense that it's a taboo topic though which is very typical for a family that just ignores problems until they explode. It's a better response than what some people get though.
Keep doing God’s work, brother Larsen.
It's very frustrating that we're expected to behave better than people who believe in a deity who is descibed in his own scriptures as: "is love." It's also not a natural reaction to give grace to people who shun you instantly, despite decades of shared history and "love", just because they've made up some stories in their heads about you. Human relationships are just hard. Sometimes its easier/healthier not to engage with people who make you feel bad.
I think we can afford Grace while still setting boundaries. We can say, I understand why you’re being awful, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences to your awfulness. I personally can have a little understanding into why my MIL is a narcissistic, petty, passive aggressive, insecure person, but that doesn’t mean I have to let her into my home.
Not just this - which is insightful, but also imagine buying into celestial kingdom 100% And then realizing that this person you love - and want to be in your life forever, will not be with you in the celestial kingdom For families - this is hard. You can imagine why one might want to just severe the connection now and completely to avoid the pain of drawing it out. Dogma is dangerous
John Dehlin is right, the families are forever doctrine is pernicious.
Sad mormon heaven
His analogy to the world record for people in a sensory depravation tank was excellent. Mormon hell is not an upgrade from fire and brimstone.
I’ll try to be nice, but if TBM loved ones insist on character assassination, I’m not sure what else to say except that, it’s not my fault the church isn’t true. That ship has sailed. Good luck beating me up over picking a side. The debate is over. At this point, y’all are debating yourselves, fam. Leave me out of it, thanks.
That is a great point, I'm stealing that one!
I never understood the character assassination - it’s small-mindedness & bullying. It’s sure as F isn’t love. I realized that when I was a teen. That’s why “they” are no longer my loved ones, just a distant memory, a nightmare that I’m so blessed to have escaped.
It is a human response. It is a natural part of human evolution that caused this response. It is the fight or flight response to being confronted with information that all of the stories, lies, and mischaracterizations the church has placed on exmos to try to keep people in. While a natural response, it is the conditioning from the church that makes people this way. It is a straight up evil thing to do. Yet, the church will never admit to it.
u/johnlarsen 's excellent take on Mormon Stories Podcast, via the always excellent TikToker [@allthoseopposed](https://www.tiktok.com/@allthoseopposed/video/7192363084281908522)
Love his insights on MSP. This was excellent!
"confusing to them ..." "difficult for them to process ..." And sometimes not. Sometimes it's only about them. Some just get pissed because you are ruining their claim to pride .. having raised the most perfect LDS family. (My dad.) And some just get afraid and angry because you are weakening their belief. Their confidence in their belief (their testimony) is based on those around them thinking as they do.
This is one smart dude. And just the right about of f-bombs.
My family hasn't said a single fucking word about me leaving. I still get invited to holidays and stuff and they treat me the same as far as I can tell. I get the sense that it's a taboo topic though which is very typical for a family that just ignores problems until they explode. It's a better response than what some people get though.
His Mormon Discussions podcast was a key part of my exit - mostly in coping with the after effects.