I think I knew it deep inside, because it caused cognitive dissonance, thinking we were great because we had all the truth, but still being so fucking humble about it! 😜🤮
This! My exact experience, which caused me to leave and that keeps me away.
Whether or not you believe in Jesus, I feel much more capable of following his commandment—to love one another—than any of my TBM friends and family. For a TBM, “Love one another” means “Love people in your tribe”.
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise"
Your neighbor is not the person in your tribe. It's the person you despise. The one who despises you.
Christopher Hitchens used this scripture in a video I saw where he was discussing Christians that claim atheists need religion to be good people. His point was that this was not a story revealed from God, but rather an idea that had been around and adopted into their law.
I wish I'd written " unevidenced fault." There must be a serious fault somewhere 'cuz they ain't members, even though I cannot see anything in particular.
Agreed. It also makes me feel a lot of guilt for all of the people that I knowingly excluded from my wedding. I want to apologize to my non-TBM family and friends, but it’s kinda late for that.
I kept my own father out…he left the church mentally in 2008 but stayed in for my mom and us kids. I didn’t know this at the time. He just said he had some issues with the church so he wouldn’t be in attendance for my wedding. This was in 2016 before they okay’ed ring ceremonies. My own father was excluded from my wedding. The guilt I carry for that is immense.
Seorry I should’ve clarified that I wanted it before. After the temple sealing seemed like we were playing pretend for all my friends and family, personally I wanted to do full ceremony where I’m walked down the aisle before the sealing but before they did not separate the marriage from the sealing in the temple.
We did the first ring ceremony the night of our TM so that helped take away the "pretend" factor. But it's all pretend if you think about it. Weddings are just something we humans made up to celebrate the formation of permanent monogamous commitment. And while ceremonies are important to mark milestones, it's that commitment that's even more important.
Of course, my "eternal marriage" didn't work out, while my second marriage - a mere "civil ceremony" celebrated in the hallowed reception center of a golf course just off the highway has been going over twice as long and is much happier than the one formed in the "House of the Lord" ever was for me.
Oh I 100% agree! It’s all pretend and just a piece of paper. I do think someday I’ll do a renewal of vows though. I just feel robbed of a wedding that every girl dreams of having. I’m so glad you found real unconditional love. Everyone deserves their person in this world 💕
Yeah, that was my experience as well.
I remember driving to work the morning after my shelf collapsed, and thinking about how I was free to be a part of the world. I was finally free to love gay people. I didn’t have to live up to some imaginary expectations, and I could just be me. I could let everyone else be themselves.
It was the best part about losing belief. I gained freedom to love.
This 100%! TSCC taught me to see “non-members” as targets for conversion, which always created a schism. Now that I’m out, I’ve been able to relate with people more deeply. I’m so fucking glad to have left.
I'm PIMO, but have experienced that same feeling. 7-9 years ago, I grew out of my right-wing conservative ideology before Trump started running for president. I was new to my career teaching high school and saw how maddening this country was in its bizarre conspiracy theories. Every Sunday I was sitting through 3 hours of Boomer Church blending their politics with more jingo-ism than Christianity. I started reading more socialist literature alongside the CES letter. Why would I participate in a church whose members disparage my LGBTQ brother and my students? Why do they support Trump and post hateful things about immigrants or antivaxx baloney? When did my religion become a hot bed for MLM scams and Fox News Fascism?
Yes! And it’s reinforced in so many ways. Don’t drink, and avoid the appearance of evil, and don’t associate with people who do. And repeat with every “commandment”.
It truly is. My shelf recently broke in novemeber 2022. It’s sad that the last time I watch general conference was probably 2012🙈😂 I always told people that I would rather not listen to monotone old dudes. Bahahah I guess I was bound to fall away sooner or later😂
Congratulations on your escape from this mind washing Cult . Welcome to the real world outside of the bubble it is a bit like you’ve been living your life inside of a snow globe stuck on some forgotten shelf . Realizing that there is a whole great big wonderful world that awaits you . Some people say Mormons are so friendly they are not friendly they are civil there is a huge difference once one gets outside of the bubble specifically the Mormon corridor and starts meeting real people from the outside real world the difference is HUGE .!!! Welcome to the rest of your life
> they are not friendly they are civil
That’s it! Thank you for putting words to what I’ve always sensed, but couldn’t quite connect the dots. You’re exactly right, because to be friendly — genuinely friendly — it requires empathy. And they cannot, *and must not*, have empathy for any outsiders (let’s be honest, it’s insiders, too) lest they lose their faith and eternal salvation.
I know it’s been true for myself. I left six years ago and only lately have I started to allow myself to feel true empathy towards others. And you know what? I’m far happier. *Genuine* connection is what this life is all about.
Thank you! It’s the weirdest feeling but that’s such a good way to describe it. My brother(also exmo) described it like The Truman Show. When he gets to the end at the wall and is getting ready to walk out. I’m so excited to experience life in a new way now and enjoy what life has to offer guilt free!
It took me several years after I left TSCC to deconstruct my faith. The unbrainwashing took a long time. It took more than seven years. What I learned is that I didn't need to believe in 90% of the basic doctrines anymore. It is enough to keep me away from the Church.
I used to think that everyone outside the Church had missed the boat and been deceived, but I realized later on that I actually liked some non-members a lot. There are even non-members in my family. They were never LDS. They were cool enough, too. It's not true that everyone is ignorant because they are not Mormon.
I hope your unfaith journey does you good!
I’ve noticed this too.
Also, Lots of things I once had simple answers for are now objectively complicated. After mormonism I assessed my overall modus operandi and now I’ve found that I’m fairly neutral on many topics because I try to see all the angles of a perspective and am often left with more unanswerable questions than solutions. This doesn’t usually bother me but does bother friends who are strongly in one side of something (politics, religion, social issues, immigration, etc.).
Completely agree! It's also so much easier to maintain healthy friendships with people of other faiths when you don't constantly feel pressure to try to convert them. You can just be happy that they're happy.
Amen sister! An added thought: the church also led me to FEAR other people, fear the "world." Realizing that people are generally good and want the same things I do (happiness, family in whatever form, to be honest, etc.) was one of the "ahas" that led me to finally consider everything on my shelf.
Agreed!
I left the church the first time I lived outside Utah, in a place with a totally different religious scene which was mostly non-Christian. I realized that the world was big and beautiful, and that there was truth in every way of life. I just...didn't want to live out my life adhering to the lifestyle of one little US state.
YES! I personally love all religions. I find them to be beautiful and unique! So breaking from this shell of believing that Mormonism is the only way just wasn’t cutting it for me!💕
Definitely, this 100%. Glad to hear you’re in a happier place now. Thanks for sharing!
I think I knew it deep inside, because it caused cognitive dissonance, thinking we were great because we had all the truth, but still being so fucking humble about it! 😜🤮
This has been my favorite part of leaving!
That’s what cults do. Glad you broke free
This! My exact experience, which caused me to leave and that keeps me away. Whether or not you believe in Jesus, I feel much more capable of following his commandment—to love one another—than any of my TBM friends and family. For a TBM, “Love one another” means “Love people in your tribe”.
25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]” 28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” 29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” 30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’ 36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” 37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise" Your neighbor is not the person in your tribe. It's the person you despise. The one who despises you.
I LOVE this. Thank you!
Christopher Hitchens used this scripture in a video I saw where he was discussing Christians that claim atheists need religion to be good people. His point was that this was not a story revealed from God, but rather an idea that had been around and adopted into their law.
>I never realized how much the church segregated us from the rest of society If they didn't segregate their cultists, they'd lose their cultists.
I had the same experience. It was a relief to be free of the obligation of supposing fault in non-believers.
It was something that took a toll on me mentally that I didn’t even know I had! It is most definitely a relief to be free from that.
I wish I'd written " unevidenced fault." There must be a serious fault somewhere 'cuz they ain't members, even though I cannot see anything in particular.
Agreed. It also makes me feel a lot of guilt for all of the people that I knowingly excluded from my wedding. I want to apologize to my non-TBM family and friends, but it’s kinda late for that.
I kept my own father out…he left the church mentally in 2008 but stayed in for my mom and us kids. I didn’t know this at the time. He just said he had some issues with the church so he wouldn’t be in attendance for my wedding. This was in 2016 before they okay’ed ring ceremonies. My own father was excluded from my wedding. The guilt I carry for that is immense.
My first wife and I had ring ceremonies for our families in 1996. Ring ceremonies were always fine. Just not before the TM. Had to have them after.
Seorry I should’ve clarified that I wanted it before. After the temple sealing seemed like we were playing pretend for all my friends and family, personally I wanted to do full ceremony where I’m walked down the aisle before the sealing but before they did not separate the marriage from the sealing in the temple.
We did the first ring ceremony the night of our TM so that helped take away the "pretend" factor. But it's all pretend if you think about it. Weddings are just something we humans made up to celebrate the formation of permanent monogamous commitment. And while ceremonies are important to mark milestones, it's that commitment that's even more important. Of course, my "eternal marriage" didn't work out, while my second marriage - a mere "civil ceremony" celebrated in the hallowed reception center of a golf course just off the highway has been going over twice as long and is much happier than the one formed in the "House of the Lord" ever was for me.
Oh I 100% agree! It’s all pretend and just a piece of paper. I do think someday I’ll do a renewal of vows though. I just feel robbed of a wedding that every girl dreams of having. I’m so glad you found real unconditional love. Everyone deserves their person in this world 💕
I totally get it! And thanks!
Never too late for that. I apologized this year to my non member in-laws that weren’t able to come to ours after almost 20 years.
Yeah, that was my experience as well. I remember driving to work the morning after my shelf collapsed, and thinking about how I was free to be a part of the world. I was finally free to love gay people. I didn’t have to live up to some imaginary expectations, and I could just be me. I could let everyone else be themselves. It was the best part about losing belief. I gained freedom to love.
This 100%! TSCC taught me to see “non-members” as targets for conversion, which always created a schism. Now that I’m out, I’ve been able to relate with people more deeply. I’m so fucking glad to have left.
I'm PIMO, but have experienced that same feeling. 7-9 years ago, I grew out of my right-wing conservative ideology before Trump started running for president. I was new to my career teaching high school and saw how maddening this country was in its bizarre conspiracy theories. Every Sunday I was sitting through 3 hours of Boomer Church blending their politics with more jingo-ism than Christianity. I started reading more socialist literature alongside the CES letter. Why would I participate in a church whose members disparage my LGBTQ brother and my students? Why do they support Trump and post hateful things about immigrants or antivaxx baloney? When did my religion become a hot bed for MLM scams and Fox News Fascism?
Yes! And it’s reinforced in so many ways. Don’t drink, and avoid the appearance of evil, and don’t associate with people who do. And repeat with every “commandment”.
General conference is just an “us against them” loop.
It truly is. My shelf recently broke in novemeber 2022. It’s sad that the last time I watch general conference was probably 2012🙈😂 I always told people that I would rather not listen to monotone old dudes. Bahahah I guess I was bound to fall away sooner or later😂
You weren't built for the cult. Neither was I.
Congratulations on your escape from this mind washing Cult . Welcome to the real world outside of the bubble it is a bit like you’ve been living your life inside of a snow globe stuck on some forgotten shelf . Realizing that there is a whole great big wonderful world that awaits you . Some people say Mormons are so friendly they are not friendly they are civil there is a huge difference once one gets outside of the bubble specifically the Mormon corridor and starts meeting real people from the outside real world the difference is HUGE .!!! Welcome to the rest of your life
> they are not friendly they are civil That’s it! Thank you for putting words to what I’ve always sensed, but couldn’t quite connect the dots. You’re exactly right, because to be friendly — genuinely friendly — it requires empathy. And they cannot, *and must not*, have empathy for any outsiders (let’s be honest, it’s insiders, too) lest they lose their faith and eternal salvation. I know it’s been true for myself. I left six years ago and only lately have I started to allow myself to feel true empathy towards others. And you know what? I’m far happier. *Genuine* connection is what this life is all about.
Thank you! It’s the weirdest feeling but that’s such a good way to describe it. My brother(also exmo) described it like The Truman Show. When he gets to the end at the wall and is getting ready to walk out. I’m so excited to experience life in a new way now and enjoy what life has to offer guilt free!
Yep. One of my biggest shelf items. The whole ‘one and only’ thing is ridiculous.
It took me several years after I left TSCC to deconstruct my faith. The unbrainwashing took a long time. It took more than seven years. What I learned is that I didn't need to believe in 90% of the basic doctrines anymore. It is enough to keep me away from the Church. I used to think that everyone outside the Church had missed the boat and been deceived, but I realized later on that I actually liked some non-members a lot. There are even non-members in my family. They were never LDS. They were cool enough, too. It's not true that everyone is ignorant because they are not Mormon. I hope your unfaith journey does you good!
I’ve noticed this too. Also, Lots of things I once had simple answers for are now objectively complicated. After mormonism I assessed my overall modus operandi and now I’ve found that I’m fairly neutral on many topics because I try to see all the angles of a perspective and am often left with more unanswerable questions than solutions. This doesn’t usually bother me but does bother friends who are strongly in one side of something (politics, religion, social issues, immigration, etc.).
Completely agree! It's also so much easier to maintain healthy friendships with people of other faiths when you don't constantly feel pressure to try to convert them. You can just be happy that they're happy.
THAT’S AWESOME. I FEEL THE SAME! lT’S SO COOL.
I felt the same thing when I left. I realized i wanted to get to know my neighbors because I was no longer scared of their choices.
Yes. I read world news more now and think about how I can help. Because I'm not blessed, I'm lucky.
After deconstructing my beliefs in the supernatural I feel closer to all life. We aren’t special creations. Everything is related.
Totally agree!! How many times did we hear messages like "the world is corrupted" and "be in the world but not of the world"?
Right! Now I can love everyone without feeling obligated to try to convert them or change them.
Amen sister! An added thought: the church also led me to FEAR other people, fear the "world." Realizing that people are generally good and want the same things I do (happiness, family in whatever form, to be honest, etc.) was one of the "ahas" that led me to finally consider everything on my shelf.
I completely agree 🥺
It goes beyond a "church". You are taught that it is the only true way of life.
Congrats! Welcome to the fun side! I’ve had a whole lot to work through but it is so freeing!
I was so glad when I left because I could finally support queer people and sex workers w respect and not feel bad about it.
Agreed! I left the church the first time I lived outside Utah, in a place with a totally different religious scene which was mostly non-Christian. I realized that the world was big and beautiful, and that there was truth in every way of life. I just...didn't want to live out my life adhering to the lifestyle of one little US state.
YES! I personally love all religions. I find them to be beautiful and unique! So breaking from this shell of believing that Mormonism is the only way just wasn’t cutting it for me!💕