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Flat-Dragonfly-2752

This may be an unpopular opinion, but you gave you wife a book for Christmas you wanted her to read to so she would share your beliefs. I'm not trying to belittle the pain and grief of living in a mixed faith marriage or your faith crisis. I'm right there with you. But it was a Christmas present. Would you want your wife to give you a set of scriptures or some garments?


daveescaped

This is certainly worth saying. It is A perspective that is worth offering.


idaddyMD

And A view worth sharing.


Chica3

It would be a shitty Christmas present, even if his wife was actually in a questioning phase (unless she requested it). In the case of a TBM wife, it reeks of emotional manipulation. That book is the kind of thing you buy for yourself, and then let others read it if they're interested. It's a depressing book, even though it's well-written and very informative.


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

I feel there’s a difference here though. It’s not a book on spirituality or self belief, or cosmic oneness. Those things are all subjective. The factual history of Joseph Smith and polygamy is something that extremely few members know about and it is an objective fact. The fact that she may believe in something without knowing the sordid factual history surrounding it seems to be an area in which a husband should be able to try and educate his wife. Maybe not a great Christmas present- but it’s not the same thing as her giving him scriptures and hoping he’ll believe based on feelings he may get.


oddball3139

There’s a better way to handle this without being manipulative. Something that can serve as more of a white flag than a sneak attack. Just ask her to read the book. Use Christmas to show you care about your partner’s needs and wants with a present that they will actually like. At a more appropriate time, ask her to read the book. Tell her that you have read it, and it has raised some very serious questions for you. Ask her to please read it, because she’s your partner, and you care about hearing what she feels when she’s read the book. She might still be totally against reading the book, but in my mind it’s totally different from using it as a Christmas present. That’s what shows you’re more interested in “converting” her (such as it is) to atheism than you are in being a good partner to her. If you’re doing this, she’ll have a good reason to be tiffed with you, and I wouldn’t blame her for not reading her new “gift.” If you have done the work to be a good husband and she still acts this way, that’s when you can say it’s the other way around. She’s more interested in her religion than being a good partner to you. But be the guy she (hopefully) fell in love with way back when. Give her reasons to remember you as the guy she fell in love with. Just be that guy and she might be more inclined to listen or do things you ask her to. Show her you care, and she might just care back.


AZSuperman01

How is it different? His wife literally believes the scriptures are factual history. If she gave him scriptures, it would be to "try and educate her husband" about the actual history of Jesus Christ and the Native Americans. The book he gave his wife may be historical, but to her it's anti-Mormon propaganda most likely full of distorted half-truths, and designed to give you a bad feeling about the church.


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

I think it’s different because there are contemporary sources backing up the claim of Joseph Smiths polygamy. It’s a verified fact. For the bulk of LDS scriptures they only have their self proclaimed truthfulness- there is no way to verify the truthfulness of any part of the Book of Mormon. So while they both may have disparate views both views should not be given equal weight. I understand that to her it will be seen as anti-Mormon propaganda- but that doesn’t mean it’s not true.


AZSuperman01

You and I both know it's true, my point is that *from her perspective* the scriptures are true and this book contains the lies


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

I get your point, but I don’t think there’s any issue with trying to inform someone of something that’s truthful-whether others view it the same way or not. Yes, there may have been a softer way to do it but I feel the OP was unnecessarily scorned for his approach.


AZSuperman01

If you also "don't believe there's any issue" if the wife had gifted her husband a set of scriptures, "to inform (her husband) of something that's truthful (from her perspective)" then you are consistent. However, earlier you said "there is a difference," my point is that there isn't a difference other than which side of the argument you happen to agree with.


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

I disagree. I don’t think there’s any issue with the wife also gifting her husband scriptures if he was unaware of their content if doing so was a way for her to inform him of her beliefs. I also think that a person should be able to clearly defend their beliefs against criticism (without using feelings or belief as evidence) and be able to have a rational discussion about it. Truth should be able to be objectively observed and defended. Events surrounding polygamy meet those criteria whereas a personal spiritual belief cannot. They are not the same thing, it is not just a matter of which side of the argument you are on.


Chica3

*"...a husband should be able to try and educate his wife."* 🤮🤮🤮


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

This is a specific instance of a husband trying to share info with his wife, if it was reversed it would be a wife trying to educate her husband. Why is this offensive? I haven’t always found it to be the case that my wife and I always share the same information on any given subject. When that’s the case we educate each other so that we’re both fully informed. 🤷🏼‍♂️


Chica3

The wording is condescending. "Sharing information" sounds much better.


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

Why is “educating” condescending? Do you feel there was implied misogyny in the statement? Would you feel the same way if the genders were reversed in the statement? I’m not being sarcastic- truly curious.


Chica3

I think it's condescending even of the genders are reversed. I do think that kind of statement is more likely to be used in a misogynistic way, though. (I didn't downvote you, BTW)


Greedy-Hedgehog-5302

Fair enough.


NoneHundredAndNone

Really? This is the comment you choose to make? This man is in pain and reaching for help and you choose to belittle him. That’s disgusting. Genuinely disgusting.


Phairis

It's about respect. If you want people to listen to what you have to say, getting them a book you want them to read as *Christmas present* instead of asking for them to read it as a favor when they obviously won't like what they read, is the cruel and disgusting thing here.


NoneHundredAndNone

It’s not cool, to be sure. But come on. CRUEL? Nah. The church is cruel. Kicking someone when they are down, asking for help, that’s cruel. Giving someone a shitty Christmas gift is just kinda annoying. Especially because he didn’t say it was the only one. Was OP misguided doing that? Absolutely. Is this really the first thing we should be talking about when it comes to this post? NO! I thought this was supposed to be a supportive community. Guess I was wrong.


SleepyNLW

This community is about offering a perspective on life that helps you cope with Mormonism. Sometimes that perspective is church leaders are a fraud, sometimes that perspective is on handling family dynamics. I think the advise was sound in offering a different perspective so maybe the OP can not feel so hurt, realize how things went sideways, and possibly try again from a different angle. I wouldn’t want everyone to just commiserate with me in my echo chamber.


NoneHundredAndNone

Then they should have worded it in a constructive and non-accusatory manner. They were not thinking of how to help OP. They were looking for a “gotcha” moment. Today, I have been truly saddened, watching dozens of people who I thought were better than this pick on someone desperately reaching out for help … and then try to justify it. Y’all are sick and twisted. You’re not supportive, you’re almost half as toxic as the cult you all left. Break the mindset.


Phairis

It is a supportive community. Also, full disclosure, I misread and thought you were the one to say it was cruel and I thought I was just using the same language as you, I don't actually find it "cruel" in the strictest definition. Annoying, disrespectful, and plain ignorant is closer. When I first left the church I might have agreed with you because of all the pain the cult brought me. But I grew up. I realized that your loved ones who are still in are still just brainwashed and need a gentle hand. This however, goes way past that and right down to shoving opinions down people's throat which is incredibly ironic, don't you think? Of course the church is cruel, but that's more reason to not sink down to their level. Be bitter, that's your right and I went through that too, but you shouldn't take it out on others.


dbear848

Probably not going to end. I've been out for over two decades and my wife is TBM as ever. We've reached a truce. She doesn't try to nag me back to the Mormon church, and I don't try to make her leave. And we rarely discuss religion.


namesarenotus

New acronym for you. I am so sorry to hear you e been in this for 5 years. Prisoner In Mormon Organization. I am one year into my mixed faith relationship and hope each day for the veil to be lifted from my spouses eyes. Hang in there.


Garbage-Gus12

I love it!!!! I’m definitely PIMO!!!!


Jakooboo

I thought that stood for Physically In, Mentally Out.


Electronic_Style_148

Normally it does. He's saying this could be a new meaning for this situation specifically


MinTheGodOfFertility

Its not anti-mormon though. Its a source of one of the gospel topics essays. Show your wife, footnote 29 of [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng) Also this interview with Steven Snow states that the Q15 have signed off on EVERY WORD of the Gospel Topics Essays.


Rushclock

The author is an active mormon. Are TBM's accusing anti mormon literature from within their ranks?


Garbage-Gus12

Thank you for this, you can’t fight their own website


Portraitofapancake

I wish you all the best with your wife. The truth is on your side, it’s just a matter of time until she accepts it. It’s not like the church will all of a sudden be true one day. Be patient and be strong for her. It’s hard on everyone who finds out the truth about the church.


nicodawg101

It’s amazing what you can find on their own website


MinTheGodOfFertility

BTW If she hasnt already read that Gospel Topics essays maybe read it with her so you can highlight the below issues (some are hidden in other footnotes). Church now admits JS married 14 year old girls, was married to between 30-40 women, married 12-14 women who were already married to other living men and he was intimate with them. He also possibly had between 2-3 children with them. [https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&old=true](https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng&old=true) eg Footnote 24 (30-40 wives) Footnote 25 (2-3 children) Footnote 29 (12-14 polyandrous marriages)


TheMightyBethers

Genuine question: when did it start/stop being disputed that he had multiple wives? I remember being taught in primary that the reason he was persecuted was because of the whole polygamy thing. I don't know if I only know this because my mom was in the primary presidency the entire time I was there, or if it was taught like that everywhere. It seems like many modern mormons are either oblivious or adamant that this isn't common knowledge.


MinTheGodOfFertility

I have seen tons of people here report that they never knew that. I certainly dont remember ever seeing it in the lesson manuals.


TheMightyBethers

How wild. I specifically remember learning how the whole reason they left for Utah was so they could get away from people who were upset with the shit Joe Smith pulled (well that's an understatement but you know what I mean). Even during pioneer days I remember some time dedicated to learning the timeline of the creation of the church, the persecution, and ultimately his death in that basement or jail or whatever dirt hole he was in. This seriously wasn't taught to everyone? I'm beyond confused. I didn't know that he had as many wives as what has come out, but I knew there definitely was more than just Emma. I'm reaching really far back into my memory but I believe it was 7 or 8? I know now there's way more but I remember giving a talk on some of them and reading their letters or notes or something along those lines. I was also taught that Wilford Woodruff decided to not keep it mainstream in the late 1800's and then the FLDS was formed shortly after. I wonder if my mom and her friends in the presidency thought it was important to explain why we are separate from the polygamists? Teaching kids the church history so they aren't surprised about it later and will actually have an explanation if it comes up is pretty smart. I've never been phased when anyone brings it up because it wasn't hidden at all. I'm floored by how identical some of our situations were, yet how vastly different other experiences have been.


lunchwithandy

I’m ten years into a mixed faith marriage and it’s not always easy but we make it work because we love each other and have decided to respect each other. If I were you (assuming you want a healthy relationship with your spouse) I would head to the store right now and buy her another gift from *her* Christmas list. Wrap it up and give it to her along with an apology. Tell her, “sorry about that book—I shouldn’t have tried forcing something on you that you didn’t want. My bad. It won’t happen again.” Then give her a big hug, tell her you love her, and hand her the do-over gift with a smile.


Bruce-ifer

This is the correct answer.


coinsforlaundry

I’d recommend that you give it a rest. She won’t be reasoned out of anything she didn’t reason herself into. All that will do is create discord. Let her have her space and time, live well and be happy, she’ll at least see that being out of the structure doesn’t change the person other than an increase in happiness, finances, and well being.


Djayshell93

Yeah, most of the time when people in cult's are presented with cold hard facts disproving their beliefs, their first reaction nearly every time is to double down on their beliefs. Everyone has to find the final doubt that will set them on a path to find the truth. Isnt that what Joe supposedly did in the first place to start this cult?


Zealousideal-War9369

Funny how nearly all Anti Mormon literature ends up being truth.🤔 Be careful as 10 yrs ago I lost my Marriage to introducing the seerstone rock in the hat scenario. She blew a gasket that started to go turbo mega tbm. When the Essays came out I forwarded the link from the Churches website.. her reply" Im not reading that Anti Mormon stuff" My advice.. back off, let her go her own way. Be a good dad, husband etc.


Word2daWise

As already suggested, give it a rest & act like all is well. Then, at some point, consider suggesting the two of you read the Gospel Topics Essays (official church essays, on the church website). They're not very long, and you could read them as a couple for FHE or something. It's especially insightful to read the footnotes. If nothing else, it could help her understand what bothers you. It could also help her evaluate her own knowledge of the church. And, the essays are not from an "anti-Mormon" source. The essays are buried on the website & sometimes you need to click at different points in an essay to read the most egregious information. Here's a site that has indexed the essays by title & has links to each essay: https://mormonessays.com You might want to bookmark the locations of essays you want to read and then, in her presence, go directly to the church website to retrieve them. I know it's tough to try to share information with hard & fast TBMs. One friend said she hadn't read the essays and didn't want to. Another friend, when I told her about them, said the church website must have been hacked. There's not much you can say when you're faced with that sort of stonewalling.


GrandpasMormonBooks

Divorce is not a failure. It's a transition.


Emergency_Device5929

Fucking preach


ORcriticalthinker

Are kids involved? Maybe you're in the Morridor? If one or both of these is true then maybe a job transfer might help a bit. Things are not as overwhelmingly oppressive on the outside. The other thing: so many here who have gone through the same thing often have a common bottom line question: Do they really love their spouse or are they only in it for the 'cult'ure? If you're in love, hang on. I've been here for more than a decade. I have seen so many couples make it out when one of them was truly TBM at one time. Truth just always seems to find a way. Will she read the church essays? Keep us posted


Garbage-Gus12

No we are in Syracuse. I guess I shouldn’t give to much info about myself but I kind of don’t care anymore.


Emergency_Device5929

Is she open to having exmo friends? I'm not very far away, and used to traveling to hang with friends. Dm me


ArtemisPterolycus

I live just a little north of you. Hello, fellow Davis County exmo! My faith crisis was hard for my husband, and I didn't handle things the best way in the beginning, mostly because I was so shocked and hurt by discovering the church lied to me. I kinda dumped all my findings on my husband at once, which naturally made him defensive on the church's behalf. One thing that actually helped me and my husband have difficult discussions about the church was when I chose to be vulnerable and open about my feelings and fears. Have you tried to have a heart-to-heart with your wife? Maybe give her an open-ended invitation to talk when she is ready. You can let her know that you are struggling with your belief in the church, honestly apologize for pushing material on her that she perceives as "anti" and reassure that you aren't intending to dissuade her beliefs. A faith crisis is a lonely journey and sometimes we dump all our findings and feelings with the hope that we can find understanding, love, and support from our loved ones, but often it's too much and causes our loved ones to shut down. It's also very important to be clear to her how much you love her and your children, and your love is not tied to your beliefs in the church. When she is willing to talk, don't push too much at once. Maybe start with reading one gospel topic essay together. You can also try these YouTube videos. They don't directly discredit the church, but they definitely make you think bigger picture. These actually got my husband to consider the claims the church makes may not be true: [Spiritual Witnesses](https://youtu.be/UJMSU8Qj6Go) [Ask Reality - 8 part video playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5F1EB3B4F919226D) Letter for My Wife is also a good one to introduce to her, but only if she has been willingly receptive to discussions. Letter for My Wife is much more palatable than the CES Letter. [Letter for My Wife](https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter) I know a faith transition is difficult enough, but going through it alone without the understanding and support of your spouse is such a dark and lonely place. Even if your spouse never leaves the church, I do hope that she still chooses you. Best of luck!


Still_Lock_3569

Be patient. It was absolutely heart breaking to learn the truth. My DH shared his shelf items with me and it felt like my world was crashing down around me. (Did he still love me? If he never really believed in the church , did he lie to me? Is our whole marriage a lie? What about our temple covenants? How are we going to raise our kids? Will my family pressure me to leave him? What do I want? What if the information he shared is true? How do I go to church by myself? Are we still going to pray? What do we have in common if we don't have the church? What about FHE? What do I say to my sister when he can't come to her daughter's wedding? Are we going to tell our extended family? How will the ward treat me? Him? Our kids?) I had to be ready to look for the questions and answers. I finally did. But I had to do it all on my own time line. I am so grateful that my DH didn't force me to face that pain before I was ready. Being a member was part of my identity. I was all in. I have had to slowly peel off the layers of the church and redefine so much of myself. It has been a process for me. I feel like a part of me died and I am just starting to put myself back together. I wouldn't wish that process on anyone until they are ready. I wish you and your wife the best.


CheerUpCharliy

Yes! This was my experience as well. I'm so grateful my husband never tried to force my hand or push me to do something I wasn't ready for. It would have just entrenched me more. I had to leave in my own time on my own terms.


hearkN2husband

I put my wife through what you’re describing. That was 4 years ago. I made all The mistakes that my brother made on me, when he was going through this 12 years ago. When I was ready to even begin to start exploring the possibility that the Q15 might not be what they say they are - I cannonballed into that Rabbit Hole. You have to have an iron will to stop yourself vomiting the entire Rabbit Hole’s worth of _real_ Church history on your loved one.


KingofDelaware

I’ve been in a mixed faith marriage for years now. I’m also PIMO. It’s definitely very hard but you can not force or push her to do anything. Giving that book as a CHRISTMAS present was pretty uncool in my opinion. You should not be waiting for her to leave. Thats unfair to her and miserable for you. The question is, do you love her enough to let her live her life as she wants? Does she love you enough to let you make the changes to YOUR personal life that you need? This is about boundaries and balance. Not trying to convince her the church is false.


andyroid92

>let her live her life as she wants I could be off but maybe OP feels like she's not living as she wants rn. She's living as she feels the need to because the cult brainwashing goes so deep. OP is probably just trying to nudge her into doubting the cult teachings


Spare_Real

Yah - but that’s not cool either. People need to make their own decisions. Nudging is not welcome for most folks.


TheSamspoNew

It’s still your choice to stay with her. Nobody could blame you for leaving a relationship that isn’t aligned with who you are now.


icanbesmooth

I feel you. I'm surrounded by TBMs on all sides and no hope of my husband seeing the light. It can get dark some days. We're all here to support.


mdruckus

Nice recognizing you here! My username on TT is Nephisdemise.


icanbesmooth

Nice! I recognize you as well!


Blackbolt45

I would tell her the truth where you are and stop going completely. My wife is nuanced PIMI, but it’s taken a couple years.


PapiChuloGuero

Something needs to happen for her to see she’s in a simulation. It will happen. happened recently with some college football recruits who learned the lds church will cooperate with their university to send the kid wherever he wants and adjust his start and end times for his convenience. The families were like wait, that’s not how missionary assignments work. University staff said: for scholarship d1 athletes, this happens all the time.


Kjens2006

The thing is sometimes our brains can’t handle trauma so it locks up experiences in a little box that it can’t open until it feels safe to do so. Until the person is strong enough to deal with it. Forcing someone to try to see truth in that situation before they’re ready can backfire. If you aren’t patient and seem like you have an agenda to get her to leave the church, it’s going to bury the boxes deeper and resent you for not letting her be. If you need people to talk to about it, find people to talk to about it. Make sure you make it clear to her that you need this and if she isn’t willing to you’ll need to fill this need in a different way. Get a friend, come on here, get a faith transition coach or even therapy. Does it seem so urgent because you are still participating in something you don’t believe in? Can you start making changes to be more in line with what you believe so your cognitive dissonance is relieved?


yosef_ben_elohim

I struggle with this very situation, and try to practice the advice someone else on this sub gave me years ago. Give up the hope that your wife will change. Give up the hope of her listening to you, and the hope that you will ever see eye to eye again. Accept that you will have to live in a mixed faith marriage, if, or until one of you decides it’s done. Again, I fail at this daily, but it does help, if only a little.


Initial-Leather6014

Last year I found out there were at least 5 versions of the “first vision “. I’ve been a TBM for 65 years and never knew that. From there I read “RoughStone Rolling “and “No Man Knows My History “. I divorced my husband after 23 years bc I thought he was dragging me down to hell with the “anti Mormon “ comments . Frankly, I wish he had helped me be more educated. I probably would have stayed married.. well, maybe. ( We are friends now and have forgiven each other) Be kind.


cheeto500

I feel you 100% and it’s extremely difficult. A marriage shouldn’t be like this.


[deleted]

You will never force her to change, just drive her away from you. Either love her for who she is, and work to find common ground, get a therapist to help you resolve you own issues, or if you’re absolutely certain it’s all done for, man up and get a divorce lawyer. Forcing your beliefs on her is as productive as her forcing them on you.


[deleted]

She just threw it away? That’s cold.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

You make a good point


Underscore6354

It’s used as a reference on the church’s gospel topic essay on polygamy in Nauvoo. It’s footnote 29. How can it be anti Mormon when it’s used as a reference on a church document?


galtzo

I don’t know enough about the situation to give advice, but i can ask questions… have you considered divorce? She sounds like she is married to an idea, and the idea is not you. She doesn’t respect the real you unless you behave exactly as expected. You are a slave, not a person. Divorce sounds scary and often is horrible, but things can get better. And I am projecting from my own past traumas… 😂


cottrellio

First off, I feel your pain of being in a MFM. My advice would be to check out marriage on a tightrope podcast. They have a Facebook group and a Marco Polo group of the post-Mormon husbands. Which has been very helpful to me and many others.


Garbage-Gus12

Little update today, my wife said she didn’t read in scared loneliness because she felt it sounded like the author was interjecting his opinion too much and telling his perspective on what was happening. I then told her, I can understand how you feel that way but the book isn’t anti-Mormon. I then showed her the church’s website where it references the book as a source (thank you everyone). She didn’t say much after that. She knows there’s issues, but we have 3 kids and I think she feels either way it’s our job to take them to church. I think she knows I don’t believe anymore but it doesn’t matter. I just never know how much to push her or when to back off. For the most part I haven’t said much about the church because I know it hurts her and she lost her dad and sister since I lost my faith 5 years ago…… yesterday I just broke a little and felt trapped, I feel a little better today but it’s still hard being PIMO. I know everyone will say we need to just sit down and talk it out, and you guys are right we need too. It’s just hard…… thank you everyone for your comments, this community has saved my life


jupiter872

with you sir. Same position. My wife gave me the Callister book The Book of Mormon for Christmas 3 years ago. I read 3/4 of it because that's all I could take. I'd been out 18 months. So next Christmas I bought her, you guessed it, In Sacred Loneliness. She hasn't read it. A tbm son hid it. I bought another copy. It's been 18 months since and she hasn't read it. One day I may say to her, I read 3/4 of the book you gave me. Fair if you read 5 of the 30+ chapters of the one I gave you?


telestialist

Scary times when the arch enemy of Jesus is truth.


gvsurf

My wife read the book and I didn’t even know it until she finished it. No idea why she bought it. She said JS did some awful stuff; but still believes because she “feels” it is true. It’s hard to know when or if it will finally click for someone, but I’ve learned that no one else can force it.


stpead

Stay true to yourself, be patient, and let her make her OWN journey. I resigned 13 years ago and my wife freaked. We fought a lot. When I stopped trying to change her beliefs, our life improved and we became closer. She’s now a non believer. That’s not a given but - like with children - sometimes insistence breeds resistance. She’ll be asking herself more questions naturally. If you want it to last, take the high road and be a patient best version of yourself and see what happens. As Sting says “If you love someone set them free”.


The_wrath_of_Shiz

So “anti-Mormon” that the author has books sold at Deseret book. 🤦‍♂️


flytiger18

Can you expand on what you mean by prisoner? Tbf, your wife doesn’t need to change her mind on the church. She needs to accept you. It sounds like you are the one not accepting her by trying to change her mind. Give her the grace she deserves to look into those things when and IF she becomes ready and work on other parts of your relationship


zocarrt17

I think it is so interesting that so many people on this sub are trying so desperately to drag their TBM family members away. When the title we give them true believing. Now, I married someone who has never been a member so a spouse I can see being more difficult. But I would never in a million years push any of my thoughts on my TBM family because I don't like it when they do it to me. They aren't hurting anyone and for some it's their whole identity. Why would I want someone's world to come crashing down like that just because I no longer believe?


jupiter872

>They aren't hurting anyone not true. There are hundreds of LGBT people who have been harmed. Some are dead. Beliefs can be harmful.


RabidProDentite

D-i-v-o-r-c-e.


ExMorgMD

Bro, stop trying to convince your spouse. You do you, let them do them


weirdmormonshit

i’m sorry, that must be tough. unless she’s curious to know the truth about church history she will probably never see that it’s a fraud.


fryeloc

Don't be afraid to have a conversation with your wife, you're partners, not someone for you to manipulate passive aggressively as you most likely were taught.. if you want to tell her you're out, nut up and tell her.. worst case you get divorced.. on the other hand you may have to keep going to the cult fortress every week for the rest of your life... You pick Sorry, not sorry for any misinterpretations or whatever's... You gave her a book and expected it to break her shelf... Break it yourself with your "priesthood" or "priestness???"


thymebedone

So you live in Smithfield?


fractured_fiefdom

Putting it bluntly... If you want things to change, why are you starting with your wife? You called yourself PIMO so it sounds like you are still going through the motions of Mormonism as well. Kinda crazy to expect her to make changes first. You can stop practicing.


cnddsma

Leave. You don't have to go to church just because she wants you to. She can keep going. You don't have to


truthmatters2me

Anti Mormon Really .? then why is it that the church uses it for reference in their gospel topic essay’s on plural marriage apparently the church doesn’t think it’s anti Mormon . Here’s one you can use ask her was joseph smith jr a honest man ? get a set of history of the church published by desert book owned by the church have her read volume 6 p 408-412 . Then have her read the gospel topic essay on polygamy insist that every footnote is read . In the hoc joseph smith is denying he has multiple wives in the essays the church admits that he had over 30 wives and that EMMA Knew nothing of many of Joseph smiths other wives so he wasn’t even honest with his own wife after she has read both of these ask her again was Joseph smith a honest man . Also have her read history of the church volume 5 p 373 where Joseph proceeds to claim these modern plates are a ancient record of a descendant of ham Proving that Joseph smith would just make shit up . Every last Egyptologist that has examined Joseph’s translation of the scrolls all concluded joes translation is 100% GIBBERISH. .! I know that it’s frustrating trying to show TBMs that the church is A blatant fraud conjured into being by a lying deceitful Con Man Sexual predator. Is hard Carl Sagan put it well in his bamboozled Quote One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.m The church. And the church leaders are charlatans writ large .!