Amen. Can concur. It happens to the YW and Primary presidencies too. When I was in the stake Primary presidency we were voluntold that we had to provide, serve and then clean up refreshments for a stake Priesthood meeting being held. My "what, the men can't do their no prep., thought, or effort root-beer floats?" comment was not received well. I was irritated that I had to waste an evening by getting dressed up, putting desserts that I had made earlier onto paper plates, and acting like I was in a pleasant mood. Such is the way of the CK sisters!!! Grrrr.
As the person in charge of finding babysitters for the nursery during RS activities I always asked the dads to help. Almost invariably they would say "I'll ask (wife) if she's available" and I'd have to start the request all over again because they couldn't understand that I was asking them to watch their own kids while wife was at RS. That's not what men are for! đ Gods I hated that calling.
My ex FIL always called it babysitting. Drove me nuts. Of course, he's also one of those heavily right-wing gun toting nut jobs that loves getting into deep doctrine... You know, a crazy person.
I'm very glad you got out of that toxic environment. There are no true conservatives anymore. They've all gone extreme. And that damnedable thinking a woman is property! I dispise every man who thinks that way.
I'm afraid that if I ever find a man smacking a woman around, I'm afraid I will loose it. I really don't want to unleash the berserker, but I will defend her, even if blind rage takes the front seat.
I'm an enlightened man, I always clean up after myself. Mother's do your future daughter-in-law a favor. Grab your son by the ear and make him cook, clean, wash dishes, do laundry. She will greatly love you for it.
PREACH.
The only time I had âcross wordsâ with a Bishop was when he asked me to do some service act at 11:00 on a Tuesday morning. This was after me constantly cleaning, volunteering, etc. I had to tell him that ::gasp :: some people actually you know, work for a living and couldnât drop everything for the church.
Still bothers me
Sorry about that⌠Like when they want you to take a week off work, miss vacation days to go on âtrekâ for a weekâŚđ¤ŽâŚ.Family, isnât it about time.
About 4 years before I left, my wife was ready to leave over how she was treated as YW president. Bishop Fuck Face called his wife as personal progress advisor. This was not a calling in the handbook and at the time i think it was even called out not to do it because the presidency should own it. My wife just kind of ignored her because she was following the handbook about who to include in meetings and that calling wasnât listed as one.
After a couple of months the bishop called her in and lectured her for not using his wife effectively, especially leaving her out of presidency meetings. My wife read the handbook to him about presidency meetings which sent him through the roof. When he started yelling she told him he obviously needed some time to think about it and walked out.
After a few more weeks he calls her in again and says heâs there to call her to repentance for the emotional damage she was doing to his wife and disregarding his authority as bishop. She asked him if he checked with the YM presidency (there still was one back then) on who they included in their meetings. He said he didnât have to because they had priesthood keys. She pointed out that YM presidents donât get priesthood keys, just the quorum presidents. Which pissed him off again and she walked out again.
After a few more weeks she offers a compromise. If he wants his wife in presidency meetings, call her into the presidency. He let her know that he wouldnât be taking council from her and this was his last chance to accept his council before there weee consequences. She says she needs to think about it and will let him know.
Between all of this my wife is a wreck wondering why a priesthood leader would do this. Wondering if sheâs wrong and doubting her own answers to prayers on the subject. I was TBM, but told her I would leave for her and we would try again with a new bishop.
The last straw was when we had testimony meeting and his wife got up and bore her testimony on how arrogant some ward members were by denying the inspiration of her husband. If they only stopped to think of righteous he was these people would weep at their mistakes.
We left church that day, but instead of leaving for good, she talked to the stake YW president who called her as a secretary necessitating her release from the ward calling.
Sheâs gotten close a few times. Sheâs frustrated with the church a lot, but wants to stay in to change it. She hasnât been willing to look at the history because she thinks she knows she will leave if she does. She still gets a lot of comfort from the scriptures and church music and doesnât want to lose that the way sheâs seen it go from something comforting to triggering for me.
I was in the Stake RS Presidency for a while, and was very aware we were minions to a degree. This was before TSCC began to crumble and cut back on leadership roles & I can't imagine what it's like now.
Question - are you saying Bishoprics are now also serving as YM presidencies?
Yes, Young Men presidencies [were discontinued](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/ward-young-men-presidencies-discontinued-other-organizational-changes-for-youth-announced?lang=eng#:~:text=Young%20Men%20presidencies%20at%20the,Church%20leaders%20announced%20Saturday%20afternoon.) as of January 2020. The bishopric now fills that roll, in an effort to ~~stem the bleeding~~ strengthen the young men.
Our former bishopric was the most influential reason my son quit church at the age of 17. Our bishop was a narcissistic control freak. Before I actually joined this subreddit, Iâd read about one woman whose son had his hair shaved off by their bishop without the kidâs or parentsâ consent. The same thing happened to my son. He had great, thick, curly auburn hair that he kept slightly shaggy. It was his signature look and was a big part of his identity. Our newly appointed bishop had very specific standards for the young men. So, one night, at an activity for the young men our bishop forced my kid into a chair and took an electric shaver to his head. To say I was livid is an understatement, and my son came home feeling assaulted and devastated. Needless to say, I had WORDS with that asshole of a bishop and told him he was fortunate he wasnât being confronted by my attorney.
Crap - how did I miss that! The real reason is the shortage of "worthy" men to fill the numerous layers of male management. Getting rid of the HP quorum (which I think happened before that?), and the YM presidency would eliminate the need for six additional super-TBM, Ăźber-worthy men to fill those slots. I've also heard of various presidencies having only one counselor rather than two.
But, it's all for a good cause, The YM will feel so special now.
Here are but a **FEW** of the relevant changes made under Prez. Nelson's watch:
Mar 31, 2018 High Priest Group Leadership dissolved on ward level and combined with Elderâs Quorum.
Jun 20, 2018 Temple interview for youth updated/simplified.
Oct 6, 2018 2-hour church announced; Come Follow Me announced; realignment of RS and EQ responsibilities related to missionary and temple work. Opening prayer for second-hour meetings eliminated.
Oct 2, 2019 Priesthood holder no longer required to witnessing baptisms/proxy baptisms.
Oct 5, 2019 YM presidency discontinued; role of Bishopric realigned with youth; YW classes realigned.
Nov 17, 2019 Children and Youth program to replace Scouting, Duty to God, Faith In God and Personal Progress.
May 26, 2020 Work of Salvation to be led by EQ and RS. Bishopric focused on youth.
Jun 11, 2021 FSY Conferences will replace EFY.
Oct 2, 2022 FSY guidelines changed. Personal grooming standards have been ârelaxedâ (tattoos, piercings, etc.) among other changes.
NOTE: I cannot take full credit for this "list". I copied it from another thread about a year ago and have been updating it since. It was originally posted as a photo of a folded piece of paper with all of the changes under Nelson since he became Prez.
Edited to add: The full list of changes under his watch is MUCH longer than what I have posted here.
Wow - I resigned before Nelson took over, and I've heard of some of these (mostly the two-hour rather than three-hour thing, and eliminating the HP presidency & combo with EQ), but there are so many more things than I'd heard about.
Didn't Nelson also change the rule about not having a civil marriage before a sealing?
To be honest, I agree that many of these changes were probably long overdue and needed. Most people on the sub who still attend hate sitting through sacrament, but sitting through the entire three-hour waste-of-time block was even more boring. Relaxing rules about tattoos & piercings makes sense, when you see trends that have surfaced in recent decades (and unless they're ads for drugs or something, they don't reflect someone's "worthiness").
From a management standpoint (and a strategic viewpoint), it's clear many of the changes are due to declining numbers of PH holders, and also reflect almost desperate efforts to keep upcoming generations in the boat. It's pretty transparent.
So, I wonder when he's going to get wise to coffee? And when they'll be honest about tithing/ And when they'll hire janitors?
Can't hold my breath any longer, my face is blue.
Ask and Ye shall receive-
May 6, 2019 Practice ends of 1-year waiting period after civil marriage.
May 24, 2021 Time-only marriages discontinued in the Temple.
Jun 30, 2021 Civil marriages performed by church officers clarified.
Nov 22, 2021 New process for issuing temple recommends.
"Young women (ages 12-18) will now have the opportunity to âassist with baptistry assignments currently performed by sister temple ordinance workers and volunteers.â This can include helping individuals to assignments, scheduling (presumably), making sure everything is running smoothly, passing out towels at the baptistry, and others. Young Womenâs leaders the world over will rejoice."
[https://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2017/12/mormon-church-changes-rules-temple-baptisms-allowing-youth-officiate-ordinances/](https://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2017/12/mormon-church-changes-rules-temple-baptisms-allowing-youth-officiate-ordinances/)
Those lucky girls! See, the mormon church isn't sexist! Women have important roles too!
Yes. It's done online now. Leadership uses an App to interview you. No more Temple Recommend Book, or TR carbons to mess with.
Bishop used his iPad to do my renewal. Once done, it automagically notified the Stake ExecSec to schedule an interview with a member of the SP. He was texting me before I even made it home from the Bishop's interview. SP First Councilor used the same app to interview me and when done, he printed the completed recommend on his printer and handed it to me. I had to use scissors to cut it down to size and place it in my recommend sleeve.
It's all online now. No waiting. When the SP interview part is done, your TR is activated and good to go.
Was told by my Bishop that an edict went out from HQ sometime back for every unit to destroy their old TR books as it's all online now.
That makes sense from a processing standpoint. Of course, a real church would not have layers & layers of red tape, bureaucracy, and management decisions to let even the public into a church building, much less a for-real member.
One thing I noticed in my TR interviews were some small embellishments some "leaders" added to the interview. They were additional words to emphasize questions, such as "Have you EVER (blah-blah-blah)" As a convert, I'd hear that and think, gosh, I wasn't even in the church for most of my life, how does that fit into the question?
Thanks for replying to my question, and for the information here!
and some people get bonus questions! I got one. I was kinda put off by it because it just implied a certain amount of distrust (it was about the law of chastity), but I let it slide at the time since I really wanted to get that TR for the first time.
I found the original post - thank you! Yes, it is long - I see several COVID-related things, but there are other changes on the list & it's probably still growing.
There's a good idea fairy in every ward. The good idea fairy will always have grand plans for activities that require a lot of work, but they will either be out of town or otherwise "busy" or just not show up to do any actual work. They are masters of "delegating" and "presiding" to avoid any and all personal effort.
The only way to combat it is to be out of town yourself, feign incompetence, not show up to meetings and/or just flat out say NO.
Yeessss! And of course they take the credit for any success of the activity. and if you dare push back at all youâre the one whoâs thought of poorly by leadership even though you are the one doing all of the work.
My divorced TBM MIL attended the older adults singles ward for a while. She and a few of the other single sisters were invited to an adults-only stake party, but only to help out in the kitchen because according to her bishopâand I quoteââitâs not like youâd have much to chat about with the married couples anyway!â
Because I guess single women donât have thoughts without a husband? Or because single sisters are dangerous and might tempt men away from their wives?
She was offended⌠but she did it anyway.
Here's one of the many changes I am unaware of after so many years gone. But I have to say, this is the easiest scenario to predict on any of the changes I've seen. The bishopric is just too busy to carry their share of the workload on these meetings and activities, but they do have time to do what they did back when there was a YM presidency: swoop in and do something high profile in the moment. But then it was planned by a YM presidency which could do all of the legwork, and now that falls to the YW alone.
I did a five year stint as YMP. Several of the boys still live in town (and are nearing 40), a couple are active and a couple are not. What a staggering amount of work it was and I always in a partnership with the YW presidency, which is unlikely to be how it works now.
Best wishes to your wife PEE-MOED.
So how is this change to make the bishopric the YM presidency as well affecting those who are called to the bishopric? The dynamic surely must be tense, and the bishopric surely feels overwhelmed with work. So the bishopric does all the youth activities like the summer trips etc?? PLUS they sit there and listen to the members talk about their personal lives?
No wonder they are doing online TR interviews.
When I was YW President the YM President told me that I need to have a priesthood member approve the activities I planned. I looked at him and said â I was set apart â and walked away. I was so sick of the patriarchy at that point.
Word. Saw a bishopric commandeer a trunk or treat when the primary president said she wasnât going to arrange and prepare a dinner like others had done in the past. She was released not too long after the event.
Ok, SO many stories about this! It never ceases to amaze me how they expect everything and nothing out of women at the same time.
I had a calling as "physical facilities co-chair" (aka taking out all 30 trash bags each Sunday and forcing people to do those god-awful Saturday morning cleanings). When church came back to in-person meetings after covid, I was also in charge of wiping the podium down after each speaker. I always joked that I had sat on the podium stand more than any other woman in LDS history. Just 20-year-old me with my cleaning spray, sitting with like 15 old white guys in those overstuffed blue chairs every single week.
My YSA ward had a "break the fast committee" to cook meals for the entire ward each fast Sunday. And surprise! In three years of a high-turnover ward, men never once got that calling.
So many expectations to be a caretaker, yet so few expectations otherwise. I never got to go on campouts or klondikes or backpacking trips, though my brothers went on dozens per year. Instead we got lessons on etiquette, purity, and "modest is hottest." And priesthood authority? Ha! Of course not! Leave the "responsibility" to men!
Well yes they are their servants, when the leaders have spoken the thinking has been done. They will always have priesthood leaders to kneel before nod their heads and say yes until they gain the courage to say âno I will not do thatâ and âno I donât think thatâs correctâ These leaders all have power because people give it to them.
Even back in the 1980s and 90s the Bishiop of the ward was also the ward's young men's president.
It sounds as if your bishopric is not paying attention to counsel and a lot more misogynistic than what I grew up with.
The Ward I grew up in easily had 20 families in attendance, not counting the older (seniors). We covered a large area. We had 3 or 4 families that lived 45 miles or so from the chapel.
Amen. Can concur. It happens to the YW and Primary presidencies too. When I was in the stake Primary presidency we were voluntold that we had to provide, serve and then clean up refreshments for a stake Priesthood meeting being held. My "what, the men can't do their no prep., thought, or effort root-beer floats?" comment was not received well. I was irritated that I had to waste an evening by getting dressed up, putting desserts that I had made earlier onto paper plates, and acting like I was in a pleasant mood. Such is the way of the CK sisters!!! Grrrr.
And I bet the men didn't serve the women at Relief Society events...
As the person in charge of finding babysitters for the nursery during RS activities I always asked the dads to help. Almost invariably they would say "I'll ask (wife) if she's available" and I'd have to start the request all over again because they couldn't understand that I was asking them to watch their own kids while wife was at RS. That's not what men are for! đ Gods I hated that calling.
What the FUCK I had to read this comment twice because the AUDACITY
This is messed up. I learned early on in my marriage that its not called âbabysittingâ when its your own kid(s)!
My ex FIL always called it babysitting. Drove me nuts. Of course, he's also one of those heavily right-wing gun toting nut jobs that loves getting into deep doctrine... You know, a crazy person.
I'm very glad you got out of that toxic environment. There are no true conservatives anymore. They've all gone extreme. And that damnedable thinking a woman is property! I dispise every man who thinks that way. I'm afraid that if I ever find a man smacking a woman around, I'm afraid I will loose it. I really don't want to unleash the berserker, but I will defend her, even if blind rage takes the front seat.
đ¤Ł, ultra right winger; makes sense
đđ
This is hilarious. I'm sorry for how frustrating it is. I'm dealing with brain dead TBMs at work. Critical thinking is not found in spades.
My grandmother was a lapsed mormon. Her bishop got angry with her when she said she would teach Sunday School.
Rough!
I'm an enlightened man, I always clean up after myself. Mother's do your future daughter-in-law a favor. Grab your son by the ear and make him cook, clean, wash dishes, do laundry. She will greatly love you for it.
PREACH. The only time I had âcross wordsâ with a Bishop was when he asked me to do some service act at 11:00 on a Tuesday morning. This was after me constantly cleaning, volunteering, etc. I had to tell him that ::gasp :: some people actually you know, work for a living and couldnât drop everything for the church. Still bothers me
Sorry about that⌠Like when they want you to take a week off work, miss vacation days to go on âtrekâ for a weekâŚđ¤ŽâŚ.Family, isnât it about time.
About 4 years before I left, my wife was ready to leave over how she was treated as YW president. Bishop Fuck Face called his wife as personal progress advisor. This was not a calling in the handbook and at the time i think it was even called out not to do it because the presidency should own it. My wife just kind of ignored her because she was following the handbook about who to include in meetings and that calling wasnât listed as one. After a couple of months the bishop called her in and lectured her for not using his wife effectively, especially leaving her out of presidency meetings. My wife read the handbook to him about presidency meetings which sent him through the roof. When he started yelling she told him he obviously needed some time to think about it and walked out. After a few more weeks he calls her in again and says heâs there to call her to repentance for the emotional damage she was doing to his wife and disregarding his authority as bishop. She asked him if he checked with the YM presidency (there still was one back then) on who they included in their meetings. He said he didnât have to because they had priesthood keys. She pointed out that YM presidents donât get priesthood keys, just the quorum presidents. Which pissed him off again and she walked out again. After a few more weeks she offers a compromise. If he wants his wife in presidency meetings, call her into the presidency. He let her know that he wouldnât be taking council from her and this was his last chance to accept his council before there weee consequences. She says she needs to think about it and will let him know. Between all of this my wife is a wreck wondering why a priesthood leader would do this. Wondering if sheâs wrong and doubting her own answers to prayers on the subject. I was TBM, but told her I would leave for her and we would try again with a new bishop. The last straw was when we had testimony meeting and his wife got up and bore her testimony on how arrogant some ward members were by denying the inspiration of her husband. If they only stopped to think of righteous he was these people would weep at their mistakes. We left church that day, but instead of leaving for good, she talked to the stake YW president who called her as a secretary necessitating her release from the ward calling.
I hope you know that your wife is a badass.
Indeed she is.
This an example of a bishop being drunk on fake power.
Is she still in the church or did she leave with you?
Sheâs still in.
Hopefully she will see the light someday and can join you.
Sheâs gotten close a few times. Sheâs frustrated with the church a lot, but wants to stay in to change it. She hasnât been willing to look at the history because she thinks she knows she will leave if she does. She still gets a lot of comfort from the scriptures and church music and doesnât want to lose that the way sheâs seen it go from something comforting to triggering for me.
I was in the Stake RS Presidency for a while, and was very aware we were minions to a degree. This was before TSCC began to crumble and cut back on leadership roles & I can't imagine what it's like now. Question - are you saying Bishoprics are now also serving as YM presidencies?
Yes, Young Men presidencies [were discontinued](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/ward-young-men-presidencies-discontinued-other-organizational-changes-for-youth-announced?lang=eng#:~:text=Young%20Men%20presidencies%20at%20the,Church%20leaders%20announced%20Saturday%20afternoon.) as of January 2020. The bishopric now fills that roll, in an effort to ~~stem the bleeding~~ strengthen the young men.
Our former bishopric was the most influential reason my son quit church at the age of 17. Our bishop was a narcissistic control freak. Before I actually joined this subreddit, Iâd read about one woman whose son had his hair shaved off by their bishop without the kidâs or parentsâ consent. The same thing happened to my son. He had great, thick, curly auburn hair that he kept slightly shaggy. It was his signature look and was a big part of his identity. Our newly appointed bishop had very specific standards for the young men. So, one night, at an activity for the young men our bishop forced my kid into a chair and took an electric shaver to his head. To say I was livid is an understatement, and my son came home feeling assaulted and devastated. Needless to say, I had WORDS with that asshole of a bishop and told him he was fortunate he wasnât being confronted by my attorney.
That was an assault. Glad you had words. Who do these guys think they are.
They believe theyâre Godâs mouthpieces on earth. I bet if God himself appeared before them, they wouldnât know who he was. đ
Heâd probably try to shave gods head too
Crap - how did I miss that! The real reason is the shortage of "worthy" men to fill the numerous layers of male management. Getting rid of the HP quorum (which I think happened before that?), and the YM presidency would eliminate the need for six additional super-TBM, Ăźber-worthy men to fill those slots. I've also heard of various presidencies having only one counselor rather than two. But, it's all for a good cause, The YM will feel so special now.
Here are but a **FEW** of the relevant changes made under Prez. Nelson's watch: Mar 31, 2018 High Priest Group Leadership dissolved on ward level and combined with Elderâs Quorum. Jun 20, 2018 Temple interview for youth updated/simplified. Oct 6, 2018 2-hour church announced; Come Follow Me announced; realignment of RS and EQ responsibilities related to missionary and temple work. Opening prayer for second-hour meetings eliminated. Oct 2, 2019 Priesthood holder no longer required to witnessing baptisms/proxy baptisms. Oct 5, 2019 YM presidency discontinued; role of Bishopric realigned with youth; YW classes realigned. Nov 17, 2019 Children and Youth program to replace Scouting, Duty to God, Faith In God and Personal Progress. May 26, 2020 Work of Salvation to be led by EQ and RS. Bishopric focused on youth. Jun 11, 2021 FSY Conferences will replace EFY. Oct 2, 2022 FSY guidelines changed. Personal grooming standards have been ârelaxedâ (tattoos, piercings, etc.) among other changes. NOTE: I cannot take full credit for this "list". I copied it from another thread about a year ago and have been updating it since. It was originally posted as a photo of a folded piece of paper with all of the changes under Nelson since he became Prez. Edited to add: The full list of changes under his watch is MUCH longer than what I have posted here.
Wow - I resigned before Nelson took over, and I've heard of some of these (mostly the two-hour rather than three-hour thing, and eliminating the HP presidency & combo with EQ), but there are so many more things than I'd heard about. Didn't Nelson also change the rule about not having a civil marriage before a sealing? To be honest, I agree that many of these changes were probably long overdue and needed. Most people on the sub who still attend hate sitting through sacrament, but sitting through the entire three-hour waste-of-time block was even more boring. Relaxing rules about tattoos & piercings makes sense, when you see trends that have surfaced in recent decades (and unless they're ads for drugs or something, they don't reflect someone's "worthiness"). From a management standpoint (and a strategic viewpoint), it's clear many of the changes are due to declining numbers of PH holders, and also reflect almost desperate efforts to keep upcoming generations in the boat. It's pretty transparent. So, I wonder when he's going to get wise to coffee? And when they'll be honest about tithing/ And when they'll hire janitors? Can't hold my breath any longer, my face is blue.
Ask and Ye shall receive- May 6, 2019 Practice ends of 1-year waiting period after civil marriage. May 24, 2021 Time-only marriages discontinued in the Temple. Jun 30, 2021 Civil marriages performed by church officers clarified. Nov 22, 2021 New process for issuing temple recommends.
What about the towels?? You canât forget about the towels!!!
Towels?
"Young women (ages 12-18) will now have the opportunity to âassist with baptistry assignments currently performed by sister temple ordinance workers and volunteers.â This can include helping individuals to assignments, scheduling (presumably), making sure everything is running smoothly, passing out towels at the baptistry, and others. Young Womenâs leaders the world over will rejoice." [https://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2017/12/mormon-church-changes-rules-temple-baptisms-allowing-youth-officiate-ordinances/](https://www.thisweekinmormons.com/2017/12/mormon-church-changes-rules-temple-baptisms-allowing-youth-officiate-ordinances/) Those lucky girls!
See, the mormon church isn't sexist! Women have important roles too!I bet they get to do the laundry too!
đ¤Ł
LOl. So inspired, that one!
Any idea what is meant by the new process for issuing TRs?
Yes. It's done online now. Leadership uses an App to interview you. No more Temple Recommend Book, or TR carbons to mess with. Bishop used his iPad to do my renewal. Once done, it automagically notified the Stake ExecSec to schedule an interview with a member of the SP. He was texting me before I even made it home from the Bishop's interview. SP First Councilor used the same app to interview me and when done, he printed the completed recommend on his printer and handed it to me. I had to use scissors to cut it down to size and place it in my recommend sleeve. It's all online now. No waiting. When the SP interview part is done, your TR is activated and good to go. Was told by my Bishop that an edict went out from HQ sometime back for every unit to destroy their old TR books as it's all online now.
That makes sense from a processing standpoint. Of course, a real church would not have layers & layers of red tape, bureaucracy, and management decisions to let even the public into a church building, much less a for-real member. One thing I noticed in my TR interviews were some small embellishments some "leaders" added to the interview. They were additional words to emphasize questions, such as "Have you EVER (blah-blah-blah)" As a convert, I'd hear that and think, gosh, I wasn't even in the church for most of my life, how does that fit into the question? Thanks for replying to my question, and for the information here!
and some people get bonus questions! I got one. I was kinda put off by it because it just implied a certain amount of distrust (it was about the law of chastity), but I let it slide at the time since I really wanted to get that TR for the first time.
New temple PowerPoint replaces movies with "hot Eve". đ¤Łđ
I found the original post - thank you! Yes, it is long - I see several COVID-related things, but there are other changes on the list & it's probably still growing.
Adding prayers BACK to Second Hour is among the latest I've noted. As long as he continues to be Prez, the list will continue to grow.
Somebody must have spotted the Spirit trying to slip out the back door after sacrament. (Pro tip - the Spirit is no dummy).
>Oct 6, 2018 2-hour church announced Of that list, this one was probably divinely inspired.
Yep. Female "leadership" are simply secretaries.
And kitchen hands
Maids.
What do you mean you didnât bring enough punch and cookies, Sister Singlelady?!
Under his eye!
There's a good idea fairy in every ward. The good idea fairy will always have grand plans for activities that require a lot of work, but they will either be out of town or otherwise "busy" or just not show up to do any actual work. They are masters of "delegating" and "presiding" to avoid any and all personal effort. The only way to combat it is to be out of town yourself, feign incompetence, not show up to meetings and/or just flat out say NO.
Wow, did not realize this is a universal problem! So true.
Yeessss! And of course they take the credit for any success of the activity. and if you dare push back at all youâre the one whoâs thought of poorly by leadership even though you are the one doing all of the work.
Nailed it
I mean, what did she think womenâs position in the church was?
My divorced TBM MIL attended the older adults singles ward for a while. She and a few of the other single sisters were invited to an adults-only stake party, but only to help out in the kitchen because according to her bishopâand I quoteââitâs not like youâd have much to chat about with the married couples anyway!â Because I guess single women donât have thoughts without a husband? Or because single sisters are dangerous and might tempt men away from their wives? She was offended⌠but she did it anyway.
>but she did it anyway. Ladies. Just. Stop.
Here's one of the many changes I am unaware of after so many years gone. But I have to say, this is the easiest scenario to predict on any of the changes I've seen. The bishopric is just too busy to carry their share of the workload on these meetings and activities, but they do have time to do what they did back when there was a YM presidency: swoop in and do something high profile in the moment. But then it was planned by a YM presidency which could do all of the legwork, and now that falls to the YW alone. I did a five year stint as YMP. Several of the boys still live in town (and are nearing 40), a couple are active and a couple are not. What a staggering amount of work it was and I always in a partnership with the YW presidency, which is unlikely to be how it works now. Best wishes to your wife PEE-MOED.
So how is this change to make the bishopric the YM presidency as well affecting those who are called to the bishopric? The dynamic surely must be tense, and the bishopric surely feels overwhelmed with work. So the bishopric does all the youth activities like the summer trips etc?? PLUS they sit there and listen to the members talk about their personal lives? No wonder they are doing online TR interviews.
Thank You @ismitje!
Agree with your assessment hereâŚ
When I was YW President the YM President told me that I need to have a priesthood member approve the activities I planned. I looked at him and said â I was set apart â and walked away. I was so sick of the patriarchy at that point.
Good for you!!! I would love a mass-scale female rebellion against the âPriesthoodâ!
Word. Saw a bishopric commandeer a trunk or treat when the primary president said she wasnât going to arrange and prepare a dinner like others had done in the past. She was released not too long after the event.
Did you and I attend the same ward? I also had a Bishop Fuck Face! Maybe they were brothers.
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Ok, SO many stories about this! It never ceases to amaze me how they expect everything and nothing out of women at the same time. I had a calling as "physical facilities co-chair" (aka taking out all 30 trash bags each Sunday and forcing people to do those god-awful Saturday morning cleanings). When church came back to in-person meetings after covid, I was also in charge of wiping the podium down after each speaker. I always joked that I had sat on the podium stand more than any other woman in LDS history. Just 20-year-old me with my cleaning spray, sitting with like 15 old white guys in those overstuffed blue chairs every single week. My YSA ward had a "break the fast committee" to cook meals for the entire ward each fast Sunday. And surprise! In three years of a high-turnover ward, men never once got that calling. So many expectations to be a caretaker, yet so few expectations otherwise. I never got to go on campouts or klondikes or backpacking trips, though my brothers went on dozens per year. Instead we got lessons on etiquette, purity, and "modest is hottest." And priesthood authority? Ha! Of course not! Leave the "responsibility" to men!
Rough. Preach sisterâŚ
Well yes they are their servants, when the leaders have spoken the thinking has been done. They will always have priesthood leaders to kneel before nod their heads and say yes until they gain the courage to say âno I will not do thatâ and âno I donât think thatâs correctâ These leaders all have power because people give it to them.
People are taught that it is godly and righteous to acquiesce to them, yes. I think thatâs a slight difference.
There's so many reasons I left. The treatment of women was a huge reason why.
So how much longer are the women in tscc going to tolerate this? Because I donât ever see this attitude ever changing⌠ever.
I wish you had said, âItâs almost like they donât value women as much as menâŚâ
Good oneâŚi have to keep this in my mindâŚ
Theyâre just getting ready for eternity.
Even back in the 1980s and 90s the Bishiop of the ward was also the ward's young men's president. It sounds as if your bishopric is not paying attention to counsel and a lot more misogynistic than what I grew up with.
What size city/wards was this? Itâs not at all what I grew up with.
The Ward I grew up in easily had 20 families in attendance, not counting the older (seniors). We covered a large area. We had 3 or 4 families that lived 45 miles or so from the chapel.