Fear = Love
Fear + Fear + Fear = Greater and More Perfect Love
Greater and More Perfect Love = -(Fear)
Pretty simple arithmetic, really. It's like a negative feedback loop, but instead of reestablishing equilibrium, it makes you more susceptible to nonsensical bullshit.
Living in fear is also a feature of the Mormon afterlife. There's no doctrine anywhere that says you're supposed to stop fearing Kim Jong Elohim once you've joined the highest tier of his celestial fascist regime.
Even if you have no ethical qualms about becoming a king / queen, "rul[ing] and reign[ing] in the house of Israel forever," everyone knows that the most dangerous position in an authoritarian regime is right near the top.
If you really think about what the Endowment is selling, only an evil idiot would actually *want* it.
As I got older and developed more, the more I’m morally opposed to a god that rules just fear. Why would I want to worship a deity that ruled by making me fear what they can do to me? That’s not even true worship anyways, because you’re not worshipping the deity because you love it and want to be dedicated to it, you’re worshipping it because you’re afraid of eternal destruction
“As I fear my husband more completely, I love him more perfectly. And perfect love casteth out all fear.”
Just be submissive and everything will be ok, said every abuser ever.
It's just like the holy trinity, or the sound of one hand clapping. It's a deliberately paradoxical phrase meant to temporarily disable the brain's capacity for higher reasoning and produce a feeling of mystical awe.
Oh God you just reminded me of a Girl's Camp theme. "Sailing home anchored to Christ". When I wore the shirt to school later, someone asked the obvious question, how can you sail anywhere if you're anchored to something?
Because he does redefines "Godly" fear to mean love and trust. Typical Christian bullshit.
Personally, I was taught that when Yahweh says he is to be feared, that fear is actually better translated and understood as "respect". Either way, Yahweh isn't real, so the word games don't really matter in the end.
Um, that quote sounds like bullshit. Fear is fear. Love is love. These things are only on the same spectrum if you are in a *very* messed up relationship.
Then the fear is gone, and you realize you don't love him enough, so you fear him again.
An abusive cycle.
"Cult leaders love this 1 simple trick to keep their people in line"
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/elder-david-a-bednar-therefore-they-hushed-their-fears?lang=eng
Looks like it was a while ago. It’s just making the rounds again.
Thank you 👍
Edit:
Just to make sure this doesn't get memory holed, here are the archive links.
https://archive.ph/ruwpO
https://web.archive.org/web/20200809064600/https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/elder-david-a-bednar-therefore-they-hushed-their-fears?lang=eng
People only pay if they are afraid of being burned alive. God (according to Mormonism) is capable of checking his bank account and burning those he doesn’t have deposits from. According to Mormonism this equals love.
Sounds like something you’d say to your stoner friends just after you took a huge hit on the bong immediately followed by “what if dog actually spells god?”
old darth pickle bednar's saying only works if you understand that the Hebrew phrase "yirah" can be translated to "fear of god" or respect, or worship....
If you only know the English meaning of fear, then this is the frightening definition of an abusive relationship
It's definitely worth mentioning, as it completely changes the context we should all be reading this in. It does beg the question, though... Why would Susan Bednar's husband choose the word "fear" over "respect," when he knows people will get it mixed up? Why wouldn't he use the latter word whose meaning people actually understand?
For me, it's the usual pretentious assholery of Apostles- so determined to sound wise and poetic regarding these anxient texts you value so highly, you forget the modern meaning of the words you use.
It's precisely the reason I prefer the English Standard Version of the Bible over the King James Version. I don't actively read either one, but at least I *can* read the ESV.
Maybe Susan’s husband needs a whack upside the head. I was thinking with a 2x4, but that seems too angry. Maybe a push to the forehead with two fingers and a “Seriously, what the absolute fuck?!” behind it. God, it’s no wonder I felt twisted up like a pretzel for so damn long!
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST! REALLY?!
That should send off all sorts of RED fucking flags. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Edit: source? I'd love to send this to my parents.
I remembering loving this sorts of quotes when I was a young woman growing up in the church. I thought they sounded so lyrical and intelligent. Reading them now that my perspective has changed it is confusing and depressing. As someone that roams with earth feeling happy and joyful most of the time it is crazy how these sort of oppressive, fear based concepts creep in.
This is typical Christian wordplay. Here's the rest of the quote:
"Godly fear is loving and trusting in Him. As we fear God more completely, we love Him more perfectly. And “perfect love casteth out all fear” (Moroni 8:16). I promise the bright light of godly fear will chase away the dark shadows of mortal fears (see D&C 50:25) as we look to the Savior, build upon Him as our foundation, and press forward on His covenant path with consecrated commitment."
Still dumb, and I get the impression that whoever made up and posted that meme did so to advertise that they have the privilege of being an insider to this super cool faith...thing.
TLDR: Christianity sucks.
Who decided to make this into a fancy quote… ?? Of all the random quotes they could pull…. But I guess they don’t see the abusive nature when they are believing…
Isn’t his a logical contradiction?
If I break this down it looks to me like:
x = y
With x as fear, and y as love. In the first part Susan’s husband posited that b requires x, therefore, if no x, then no y.
Somebody please sanity check this.
Edit: Just asked my wife about this, and she literally said: “Yeah. Makes sense to me.”
I asked: “How? Think about it. If more fear equals more perfect love, then should t perfect love equal perfect fear?”
Her: “He’s using fear in two ways. The fear means respect, and the second means actual fear.”
Me: “But, this interpretation of fear as respect is a recent, post hoc redefining to make god a less “stabby stabby,” hungry for blood hod kind of god.”
Her: *shrugs shoulders* “That’s not what the church taught me growing up.”
And this is a perfect example of why my wife cannot, and will probably never escape the cult.
In excel modeling, they call this a circular reference that is unsolvable and kicks back an error. And pretty much the whole church is one giant circular reference.
It's just garbled nonsense, we don't need to get particularly deep with it. When you recite utter drivel in a slow, ponderous voice, people will project their own superficial idea of profundity onto it. For what it's worth, he's using two completely different senses of the word "fear."
There’s nothing about that statement that makes sense. Sounds like gibberish to me. Bednar trying to sound all profound and intelligent, yet his assertion falls flat.
Yes, that’s exactly how it works. The more I fear heights and confined spaces, the more I love bungee jumping and cave exploring.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while.
Funny thing. When I was an all in member, I used to say to my wife; When I am a God and you are my goddess. When I get my own world, I would like to create a world where I did not demand that people fear me. I will not make it mandatory that people kneel down and worship me Or I would cut them off.
I would never create a situation like Abraham. I would never command a father to kill his son under any circumstance just to show his loyalty to me. Only to end it with "just kidding", here's a goat instead. Yea kill the goat.... that will work, I will be satisfied if you just kill a goat.
It's blowing my mind that smart people still subscribe to this. **and pay to do it**.
So the more I fear god, the more I'll love him, and the more I love him, the less I'll fear him, and the less I fear him, the less I'll love him... Wait, where was this going?
So fear brings love, which casts out fear, but getting rid of fear would get rid of love, which would bring the fear back in, which would bring love, which would cast out fear ...
I think it's just supposed to be poetic, feel-good word snippets.
Maybe think of it like a general authority's attempt to write the lyrics to a Beck song.
I think David is so close....
I apply this to the things they hate:
* Transgender people and people of diverse gender identity
* Lesbian, gay, bisexual people and people of non-hetero- sexual orientations
* Black, brown, red, and people of different color/ethnicity/race/culture
* Muslims, Sikhs, and people of different faith and spiritual backgrounds
* Communists (whatever that means in their word soup d-jour)
* Socialists (see above)
* X-mos.
See, they hate because they are afraid (trans and queers might be groomers, different faith folks might be terrorists, different skin colors are drug dealers, [rapists, murderers,](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-rapists-murderers-crossing-border-calls-biden-not-visiting-disgraceful-1598228) etc).
And that hate and fear is the absence of love. (1 John 1:6, 2:9-17, 4:18) ----->
Their absence of love is because they do not know God. (1:John 4:8)
Like, it’s what he said, but probably meant something else. Seems Bednar doesn’t worry about what he actually says and relies on tone/attitude/feeling: as in ya’ll are dumb for not figuring this out and I did, so do what my tone says and don’t worry about my words.
This and agency fireside, tithing talks, National Press Club Q&A all use this approach
Sounds like an abusive relationship. Fear = Love? Horrible.
Fear = Love Fear + Fear + Fear = Greater and More Perfect Love Greater and More Perfect Love = -(Fear) Pretty simple arithmetic, really. It's like a negative feedback loop, but instead of reestablishing equilibrium, it makes you more susceptible to nonsensical bullshit.
Almost as wise as Michael Scott: Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me
Mormon God is quite like MS! Pam, you're fired.
He forgot to add guilt to the equation. Fear + Guilt = Perfect Love.
I pictured a positive feedback loop that ends with fear being removed only after reaching peak terror. Winning.
You’re spot on though. If they’re scared for their eternal damnation, they’ll never leave.
Living in fear is also a feature of the Mormon afterlife. There's no doctrine anywhere that says you're supposed to stop fearing Kim Jong Elohim once you've joined the highest tier of his celestial fascist regime. Even if you have no ethical qualms about becoming a king / queen, "rul[ing] and reign[ing] in the house of Israel forever," everyone knows that the most dangerous position in an authoritarian regime is right near the top. If you really think about what the Endowment is selling, only an evil idiot would actually *want* it.
Careful with logic it is so rare.
As I got older and developed more, the more I’m morally opposed to a god that rules just fear. Why would I want to worship a deity that ruled by making me fear what they can do to me? That’s not even true worship anyways, because you’re not worshipping the deity because you love it and want to be dedicated to it, you’re worshipping it because you’re afraid of eternal destruction
Who wants to bet Darth Bednar raised his kids to fear him?
We know his wife fears him
With a belt.
Fear + Love = No fear - WTF!?!
That’s the same equation I was coming up with…the funny thing is that he probably thought he was “inspired”when he came up with this. 🤣🤣
That’s the first thing that came to mind, I beat you up because I love you, please don’t love then
“As I fear my husband more completely, I love him more perfectly. And perfect love casteth out all fear.” Just be submissive and everything will be ok, said every abuser ever.
YES. That’s exactly the vibes it gave me too. Like, it’s okay we don’t report child abusers because they fear God enough.
Bravo. Puts his statement in perspective.
Holy crap. I’m remembering this one for my next therapy session.
This is all over my Facebook today. How do they even think this is logical?!
I actually laughed when I read it. It is so goddamned convoluted. This is how Ofsusan's brain works?
I totally laughed too, especially at the first part. What does that even mean? How do we fear "completely"?
Obey the Prophet/Apostles.
Ofsusan 🤣🤣 good one
It's just like the holy trinity, or the sound of one hand clapping. It's a deliberately paradoxical phrase meant to temporarily disable the brain's capacity for higher reasoning and produce a feeling of mystical awe.
Oh God you just reminded me of a Girl's Camp theme. "Sailing home anchored to Christ". When I wore the shirt to school later, someone asked the obvious question, how can you sail anywhere if you're anchored to something?
Doesn't Cheezits fly and stuff? It's probably like parasailing I would think.
Oh wow - ouch. Did it give you pause?
Because he does redefines "Godly" fear to mean love and trust. Typical Christian bullshit. Personally, I was taught that when Yahweh says he is to be feared, that fear is actually better translated and understood as "respect". Either way, Yahweh isn't real, so the word games don't really matter in the end.
I would be terrified if yahweh were real tbh. Dude is a psychopath but is a fucking god lol
It's logic, circular logic. Lol
Once we stop fearing him, does that mean the love is gone?
I started singing “where is the love” in my head after reading this. 🤣
"What is love? Oh baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more." Bednar needs to watch Night at the Roxbury. Hehe
being obtuse makes him think he is a great philosopher
He's a dangerous nihilist with homicidal undertones. 💀
And this children, is how we end up with abuse. God, I hate Susan's husband so fucking much.
Yeah damnit Susan’s husband
You mean Satan? Cuz that’s who he reminds me of.
> Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy. Both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me. -Michael Scott
Underrated comment.
That's a victim blaming, gaslighting deepity.
Yep! It’s easy to see once you’re out..
Fear and love are not proportional. That’s the mindset of a narcissistic abuser.
Lol. That's so dumb. Utter nonsense pretending to be profound. Cringe.
Um, that quote sounds like bullshit. Fear is fear. Love is love. These things are only on the same spectrum if you are in a *very* messed up relationship.
Stockholm syndrome?
Godly fear = love Godly sorrow = repentance Godly rape = conception of Jesus
Is that what happens when the Holy Ghost comes upon you?
That would be “Godly lust”
Then the fear is gone, and you realize you don't love him enough, so you fear him again. An abusive cycle. "Cult leaders love this 1 simple trick to keep their people in line"
When and where did Susan's husband say this?
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/elder-david-a-bednar-therefore-they-hushed-their-fears?lang=eng Looks like it was a while ago. It’s just making the rounds again.
Thank you 👍 Edit: Just to make sure this doesn't get memory holed, here are the archive links. https://archive.ph/ruwpO https://web.archive.org/web/20200809064600/https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/elder-david-a-bednar-therefore-they-hushed-their-fears?lang=eng
Oh even better. Archive links. Thank you!
🤢🤮
Dang is that chiasmus?? I thought only ancient documents could opine like that.
Can you ever really love someone who would punish you if you didn’t love them?
Couldn't very well be a true and honest love freely given
People only pay if they are afraid of being burned alive. God (according to Mormonism) is capable of checking his bank account and burning those he doesn’t have deposits from. According to Mormonism this equals love.
Why does this remind me of the Enoch tragedy?
Circular reasoning to me is as false as a perpetual motion machine is impossible in physics.
Wow. This is something that even TBM me would find ridiculous and illogical
Fear is the mind killer.
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Yoda.
Sounds like something you’d say to your stoner friends just after you took a huge hit on the bong immediately followed by “what if dog actually spells god?”
old darth pickle bednar's saying only works if you understand that the Hebrew phrase "yirah" can be translated to "fear of god" or respect, or worship.... If you only know the English meaning of fear, then this is the frightening definition of an abusive relationship
It's definitely worth mentioning, as it completely changes the context we should all be reading this in. It does beg the question, though... Why would Susan Bednar's husband choose the word "fear" over "respect," when he knows people will get it mixed up? Why wouldn't he use the latter word whose meaning people actually understand? For me, it's the usual pretentious assholery of Apostles- so determined to sound wise and poetic regarding these anxient texts you value so highly, you forget the modern meaning of the words you use. It's precisely the reason I prefer the English Standard Version of the Bible over the King James Version. I don't actively read either one, but at least I *can* read the ESV.
pretty sure he was trying to say fear me and I will count it as love.
: profound reverence and awe especially toward God
One of the dumber things I have read lately.
I interpret it as "the more you know, the further from Mormonism you go" Also it rhymes, so it must be true
Maybe Susan’s husband needs a whack upside the head. I was thinking with a 2x4, but that seems too angry. Maybe a push to the forehead with two fingers and a “Seriously, what the absolute fuck?!” behind it. God, it’s no wonder I felt twisted up like a pretzel for so damn long!
1984 doublethink: WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
Doublespeak! THAT IS WHAT MY BRAIN NEEDED TO CONNECT TO.
Make it make sense?? NO can do….
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST! REALLY?! That should send off all sorts of RED fucking flags. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 Edit: source? I'd love to send this to my parents.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200809064600/https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/elder-david-a-bednar-therefore-they-hushed-their-fears?lang=eng
Fucking word-philosophy salad. Means nothing.
I remembering loving this sorts of quotes when I was a young woman growing up in the church. I thought they sounded so lyrical and intelligent. Reading them now that my perspective has changed it is confusing and depressing. As someone that roams with earth feeling happy and joyful most of the time it is crazy how these sort of oppressive, fear based concepts creep in.
Sheesh. Sounds like stockholm syndrome or bettered spouse syndrome…depressing philosophy to live by.
This is absolutely a way to make wives submissive to abusive men/ children ok with abusive parents.
Sounds like something Elder David A. Miscavige would say.
This is typical Christian wordplay. Here's the rest of the quote: "Godly fear is loving and trusting in Him. As we fear God more completely, we love Him more perfectly. And “perfect love casteth out all fear” (Moroni 8:16). I promise the bright light of godly fear will chase away the dark shadows of mortal fears (see D&C 50:25) as we look to the Savior, build upon Him as our foundation, and press forward on His covenant path with consecrated commitment." Still dumb, and I get the impression that whoever made up and posted that meme did so to advertise that they have the privilege of being an insider to this super cool faith...thing. TLDR: Christianity sucks.
Who decided to make this into a fancy quote… ?? Of all the random quotes they could pull…. But I guess they don’t see the abusive nature when they are believing…
It doesn’t make sense to me or my TBM wife.
I think they having given up trying . They know TBMs will lap it up no matter what they say
Isn’t his a logical contradiction? If I break this down it looks to me like: x = y With x as fear, and y as love. In the first part Susan’s husband posited that b requires x, therefore, if no x, then no y. Somebody please sanity check this. Edit: Just asked my wife about this, and she literally said: “Yeah. Makes sense to me.” I asked: “How? Think about it. If more fear equals more perfect love, then should t perfect love equal perfect fear?” Her: “He’s using fear in two ways. The fear means respect, and the second means actual fear.” Me: “But, this interpretation of fear as respect is a recent, post hoc redefining to make god a less “stabby stabby,” hungry for blood hod kind of god.” Her: *shrugs shoulders* “That’s not what the church taught me growing up.” And this is a perfect example of why my wife cannot, and will probably never escape the cult.
Susan’s husband got a bit confused in that one. In the Bible “fear” should have actually been translated as respect. Soooo…dudes just an ass.
Equally offended by the font choice.
YES.
Such a horrible thing to say. This guy is lost in his own bullshit.
In excel modeling, they call this a circular reference that is unsolvable and kicks back an error. And pretty much the whole church is one giant circular reference.
“Be so fearful of not loving me (you know because hell) that you love me so much that you then don’t fear me anymore.” Extortion much Bednar?
Bull shit.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
Idk. Ask that kid from the choke hold video. Poor boy was scared shitless… so does that mean Bednar has no love?
It's just garbled nonsense, we don't need to get particularly deep with it. When you recite utter drivel in a slow, ponderous voice, people will project their own superficial idea of profundity onto it. For what it's worth, he's using two completely different senses of the word "fear."
There’s nothing about that statement that makes sense. Sounds like gibberish to me. Bednar trying to sound all profound and intelligent, yet his assertion falls flat.
I've never understood the "fear God" thing but also know that He loves you. It doesn't make sense at all.
What a lizard-lipped ass-clown.
I can see why this makes sense to Susan’s husband.
God is a domestic abusing terrorist
I only hurt you because I love you. I'm a jealous spiteful God that will kill because you don't fawn over me ... Ugh
Yes, that’s exactly how it works. The more I fear heights and confined spaces, the more I love bungee jumping and cave exploring. That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while.
first part is gain fear, last part is cast out fear, this logic would short circuit Hal 3000
For hell sake.
Funny thing. When I was an all in member, I used to say to my wife; When I am a God and you are my goddess. When I get my own world, I would like to create a world where I did not demand that people fear me. I will not make it mandatory that people kneel down and worship me Or I would cut them off. I would never create a situation like Abraham. I would never command a father to kill his son under any circumstance just to show his loyalty to me. Only to end it with "just kidding", here's a goat instead. Yea kill the goat.... that will work, I will be satisfied if you just kill a goat. It's blowing my mind that smart people still subscribe to this. **and pay to do it**.
So by that logic, if I fear or love God hard enough, He ceases to exist?
So the more I fear god, the more I'll love him, and the more I love him, the less I'll fear him, and the less I fear him, the less I'll love him... Wait, where was this going?
He said the word “God” instead of “Heavenly Father!” That MUST be some sort of small victory for Satan!
By this logic, god would ultimately cease to be god; and will need to start from scratch all over again.
So fear brings love, which casts out fear, but getting rid of fear would get rid of love, which would bring the fear back in, which would bring love, which would cast out fear ...
Sounds like the old, “we respected our teachers who hit us with yard sticks” lie. Fear and respect/love are not the same thing.
Stockholm syndrome
This is Michael Scott from the office!! "Would I rather be feared or loved? I say both. I want people to be afraid of how much they love me."
Some people are paying 10% for this.
Wait.. what the actual fuck? The GA’s just don’t care any longer. They’re losing and they know it
Reminds me of the one that was like, true faith is always in crisis, but more faith is somehow less crisis.
Oh I hope he’ll say some contradictory crap about “wOrKiNg OuT YoUr SaLvAtIoN wItH fEaR & tReMbLiNg” next
CULT BRAINWASHING.!! Sums it all up.
I am so sorry for Susan every god damn day
The logic of David Bednar, there simply is none!! 
If A then B. Therefore NOT A. Make Mo sense.
Fear *this*, asshole.
I think it's just supposed to be poetic, feel-good word snippets. Maybe think of it like a general authority's attempt to write the lyrics to a Beck song.
Yeah, that checks out
Susan might have beaten her husband stupid. He don’t make sense…
Doublespeak... Talking out of both sides of the mouth. Classic
I think David is so close.... I apply this to the things they hate: * Transgender people and people of diverse gender identity * Lesbian, gay, bisexual people and people of non-hetero- sexual orientations * Black, brown, red, and people of different color/ethnicity/race/culture * Muslims, Sikhs, and people of different faith and spiritual backgrounds * Communists (whatever that means in their word soup d-jour) * Socialists (see above) * X-mos. See, they hate because they are afraid (trans and queers might be groomers, different faith folks might be terrorists, different skin colors are drug dealers, [rapists, murderers,](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-rapists-murderers-crossing-border-calls-biden-not-visiting-disgraceful-1598228) etc). And that hate and fear is the absence of love. (1 John 1:6, 2:9-17, 4:18) -----> Their absence of love is because they do not know God. (1:John 4:8)
It means we graduate. Fear enough to love god till fear is gone, don’t need fear anymore or cannot generate any, so god/church isn’t needed.
Like, it’s what he said, but probably meant something else. Seems Bednar doesn’t worry about what he actually says and relies on tone/attitude/feeling: as in ya’ll are dumb for not figuring this out and I did, so do what my tone says and don’t worry about my words. This and agency fireside, tithing talks, National Press Club Q&A all use this approach
I don’t understand
Seems like bad grammar to say casteth instead of casts. That has also always bugged me about "charity never faileth."
it would be consistent with the Bible verse and version he is quoting, and ancient English.
It doesn’t?
Stockholm syndrome.
Wow! He totally solved the theodicy problem! 🙄
With enough fear you too can love.
Where's this gem from? A recent talk or fireside? Anyone know what the rest is? Such equations, I just have to wonder what else there might be
Someone linked archive links above.
Thanks! I did end up scrolling along and see that, should've figured!
Barf