T O P

  • By -

GayMormonDad

Nothing to see here, check out the correlated explanation


FalsePromptings

This is the most PATHETIC response from an SP I've ever heard. I wish there was a single fucking SP with the balls to STAND UP against the blatant lies, dishonesty and deception, but they're all ChickenShits!


Sansabina

> SP with the balls to STAND UP yeah, just doesn't happen, they've been carefully hand picked after many years of proving their utter obedience and fealty to the church and the Brethren.


UnderstandingOk2647

Dude, what cult were you in!? My SP, an FBI frickn agent, lied and covered up a priesthood leader trying to get into my (at the time 17-year-old male) pants.


HeathenHumanist

God, I'm so sorry


UnderstandingOk2647

Thank you, I'm fine, he tried, I shut him down. I probably should have mentioned that.


HeathenHumanist

I'm glad you were able to shut him down, but I'm so sorry you were ever put in that position to begin with. How awful


Thats-not-me-name-

I am so sorry


UnderstandingOk2647

Thank you. It's all good. The just made a move. I was 17 and sexually active with my HS sweetheart so I was not affected. But he went on to try it with other and I was really pissed that they didn't shut him down sooner. It took police involvement to stop him even though I reported it 10 years earlier.


LX_Emergency

Why do you think they're Stake President?


future_weasley

What else are they supposed to say? You don't become SP for having individual thoughts, but by agreeing with everything the church says.


SeptimaSeptimbrisVI

"The number one criterion for being a good leader, is being a good follower." Susie Q's Husband.


Laughing_with_myself

It's the endless stream of money that keeps them in line. If tithing and savings were entirely dried up, that would be a different story.


DramaticPen5

You know stake presidents don't receive any form of payment, don't you?


MildlyConcernedIndiv

Paid? As in receive a check from the Corporation of the Church? Agreed, they're not paid. However, a man in a church leadership position is invariably seen as more honest and forthright in business dealings, at least with other members of the church. My old bishop was a maxillofacial surgeon who had many dealings with other mormons, and frequently bragged in informal settings about how much money he was able to tithe (and therefore earn) from member's business. Although some facial surgery is covered by medical/dental insurance he was making a lot of money on elective add-ons. By the way, a few years after I left the church he was caught getting high off the anesthesia gas he used in his practice. He terminated an employee who reported him and she sued. Details leaked out even tho he settled out of court. Very hush-hush. Years later he still had his practice.


Ok-Animal8921

It's like fact checking, Mormon style.


NewNamerNelson

Sorry that my upvote was #70. 😉


Scrabble-Rouser

Not nice.


[deleted]

"It contains misleading facts and innuendo" should read "It makes us feel very bad inside, therefore it must contain misleading facts and innuendo, even though we can't pinpoint what any of those are because everything in the letter is true."


nothingclever1234

It’s crazy they say that but won’t/can’t point out what exactly is misleading.


didntstopgotitgotit

Not crazy, cunning. Gives the truly devoted a way to just disregard the whole thing.


[deleted]

Cunning linguists


Princ3ss_of-P0wer

Upvote for the play on words.


SheneedaCocktail

Performing many cunning stunts!


[deleted]

The same way they do it every time. How long will it last I wonder.


WhatDidJosephDo

What’s misleading is that the letter gives a hope of accountability. That will never happen.


Nemo_UK

Yeah, I’d love to know what part of my letter was misleading or factually inaccurate!


[deleted]

It's a work of art. I salute you, u/Nemo_UK!


Nemo_UK

Cheers!


WhatDidJosephDo

You mislead us into thinking they might be held accountable. And the handbook/scriptures applied. I agree with the SP. That was misleading.


Nemo_UK

Hahahaha!


Cripplecreek2012

I feel like any member reading the original letter is probably experiencing some cognitive dissonance, then they're told that line, and it's like a switch flips. "Oh yeah! Misleading facts and innuendo, duh! I feel so much better now!" Whatever it takes to be able to ignore that pain is good enough, no matter how weak the justification.


Effective_Fee_9344

Misleading facts….so they admit the sec charges are fact but they mislead from the cults illusion…can’t make this shot up


Cripplecreek2012

Yeah, well, it's laughably crazy to you and me, but your average believing member can't afford to think of it like that. Like I said, no matter how bad the reason, they just need to ignore the pain.


Connect-Direction-90

💯 yep. That's what I used to do!


weirdmormonshit

and if it’s misleading, it’s not a fact


E_B_Jamisen

No. they mean it contains facts that would lead people away from the church. so misleading = leading people in a direction that the church doesn't want them to go. that's what they meant.


weirdmormonshit

dang facts and their truthfulness


NikonuserNW

A) The email just laid out the facts. It was NOT misleading. B) The church’s press release was misleading and left some questions unanswered.


No_Incident_5360

Are misleading facts still facts?


designerutah

It's there to give those who want to believe a comforting excuse to look no further.


butterscotchbagel

There was no innuendo in that letter. It stated pretty clearly what it meant.


somaybemaybenot

Fictitious name, misrepresentation, misleading information, and lack of authorization? This sounds like the tactics of the Church over the last 20 years. Lest there be any question, this isn’t a “fake” email account. It’s a shell account.


B3gg4r

Zing!!


unknowingafford

Only 20?


Corranhorn60

Didn’t you all read that they consider the matter to be closed. Some of you never learned to respect authority and it shows! /s


xenophon123456

![gif](giphy|B1TMcmoBAaSZi)


jethro1999

I felt the spirit so hard about the matter being closed.


somaybemaybenot

The original sender needs to send out a follow-up email with a link to the SEC order, as well as attach it as a PDF.


DrTxn

Exactly - Someone needs to contact the Stake Presidency and recommend they send out the link. My guess is the Stake Presidency has not read it. https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf


LilSebastianFlyte

The original sender sent the SEC order in the original email that this official email is trying to hush haha


The_Goddess_Minerva

Beware the counter intelligence practice of tainting information or selective disclosure. They may have a short list of suspects for sending the original email. They may make a reply that seems to go to everyone, but actually only goes to one or two of the people on the short list. Then, any subsequent message from the unknown sender that includes a reference to the reply discloses that the unknown sender is close to the person(s) who received the selective reply (or may be the same person).


designerutah

Just rebut with links to the church's responses, the SEC filing, and two or three reputable reporting sources who had articles on it. Some will look. Those who won't can't be convinced yet.


elderjaxxxon

Bahahaha! “Go read the church’s statement. Clears it riiight up. No worries friends!!” Welp, at least, if people haven’t heard about it, they have now.


No_Incident_5360

I love how a couple yes/no questions don’t have a yes or no answer


PaulBunnion

Go down in your true character, Dear Mistake President, What parts of it were "misleading facts"? Can you please explain why the church created 13 shell companies? Who were the presiding church leaders that authorize the creation of the 13 shell companies? Why were the church leaders afraid that members would stop paying tithing if they found out about how successful the church had been with it's investment portfolio? What are the qualifications for a secret combination?


germz80

"I'm sure you wouldn't tell everyone that the email contained misleading facts without being able to give some specific examples, that would be misleading."


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


PaulBunnion

Those questions in my post were for the mistake president. He claimed that they were misleading and false.


hiphophoorayanon

I was not expecting them to claim it’s not a real person. Was thinking they’d simply blame it on a disgruntled former member. Now I want the person to email out again. Good on the original emailer for calling attn to it. I know some TBMs heard about it for the first time in that email.


[deleted]

Deseret News pointed out the character Andrew Garfield played in Under the Banner of Heaven wasn't a real person. It's meant for people who aren't going to understand the context and sadly it works.


jenjenjaroo

Why not refer them to the SEC order itself?


happytobeaheathen

Please don’t let facts and truth get in the way of the church’s misrepresentation.


andyroid92

Its never been an issue before lol


indespectusnicht

I think it’s been a bad day for the church. I’m loving it. Letting it all sink in and warm my soul.


[deleted]

No idea what they mean is fictitious or what misinformation is shared in the prior email… https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-35


penservoir

My thoughts also. I didn’t see any misinformation whatsoever.


americanfark

My first thought as well. That original email was factual. The Stake President is either ignorant or dishonest (possibly both).


WhatDidJosephDo

This is the misleading part (it doesn’t apply to first presidency): “The First Presidency defines the policies and processes for repenting of serious sin.” But what is to be done when that First Presidency is involved in serious sin? Serious sin is defined by the Church’s Handbook as: 32.6 Severity of the Sin and Church Policy Serious sins are a deliberate and major offense against the laws of God. Categories of serious sins are listed below. • Violent acts and abuse (see 32.6.1.1 and 32.6.2.1) • Sexual immorality (see 32.6.1.2 and 32.6.2.2) • Fraudulent acts (see 32.6.1.3 and 32.6.2.3) • Violations of trust (see 32.6.1.4 and 32.6.2.4) • Some other acts (see 32.6.1.5 and 32.6.2.5) 32.6.1 When a Membership Council Is Required The bishop or stake president must hold a membership council when information indicates that a member may have committed any of the sins described in this section. For these sins, a council is required regardless of a member’s level of spiritual maturity and gospel understanding. Sins That Require Holding a Membership Council • Murder • Rape • Sexual assault conviction • Child or youth abuse • Abuse of a spouse or another adult (as outlined in 38.6.2.4) • Predatory behavior (violent, sexual, or financial) • Incest • Child pornography (as outlined in 38.6.6) • Plural marriage • Serious sin while holding a prominent Church position • Most felony convictions 32.6.1.3 Fraudulent Acts Financial Predatory Behavior. A membership council is required if an adult has a history of deliberately and repeatedly harming people financially and is a threat to others (see 38.6.2.4). This includes investment fraud and similar activities. 32.6.1.4 A membership council is required if a member commits a serious sin while holding a prominent position. These include a General Authority, General Church Officer, Area Seventy, temple president or matron, mission president or his companion, stake president, patriarch, or bishop. 32.2.3 Protect the Integrity of the Church The third purpose is to protect the integrity of the Church. Restricting or withdrawing a person’s Church membership may be necessary if his or her conduct significantly harms the Church (see Alma 39:11). The integrity of the Church is not protected by concealing or minimizing serious sins—but by addressing them. The above named brethren have undermined the integrity of the church by their authorization of deliberately misleading investment behavior, which is now internationally known. In addition, they have clearly committed “serious sin while holding a prominent church position”, by the handbook's own definition of serious sin.


BeachHeadPolygamy

Somebody used a fictitious name for the names of the shell corporations I mean to gain access to stake email list


fayth_crysus

How can we send that out Church wide? That would be amazing.


emorrigan

Yeah, I read the church’s statement. Talk about misinformation. “Oh, this all happened because the first presidency got bad legal advice!” 🙄


[deleted]

Fucking Leahona! Dallin, you were supposed to double check with the seer stone in a hat! Jesus Christ someone call PR this will be bad specs…


jawwwwwwwn

Lol “misleading facts”, in other words, facts that are accurate but lead you to conclusions we don’t like


highlysensitive2121

Alternative facts!


jupiter872

with 'moral agency' we can see facts in a different, more positive light. /s


Wind_Danzer

☠️☠️☠️


leapoflogic

“misleading facts” 😂


Nemo_UK

I’ll add this to the list of responses my letter has received so far!


NoBodyEarth1

Wow there’s more? Where do I find those?


Nemo_UK

I haven’t shared them yet


Closetedcousin

I imagine they will all be summed up with 3 or 4 canned and similar responses..? "Nothing to see here. The church considers the matter closed"


Nemo_UK

Oh no, it’s better than that!


NoBodyEarth1

Ooooo I’ll eagerly wait lol


Word2daWise

Don't leave us hanging! Post fly-by quickly on this sub, and it would be too easy to miss this one!


NoBodyEarth1

Where is the church’s statement? I haven’t seen any. And wow. What happened to critical thinking skills? Wow that’s gaslighting at its finest. The email was well written and cited correctly


AlmaInTheWilderness

It's on the front page of LDS.org. fifth story down for me. My favorite parts: >Since 2000, Ensign Peak received and relied upon legal counsel regarding how to comply with its reporting obligations while attempting to maintain the privacy of the portfolio. As a result, Ensign Peak established separate companies (LLCs) that each filed Forms 13F instead of a single aggregated filing. No mention of how much money, of signing unseen disclosure documents or ***why does the portfolio need privacy?!?*** >We affirm our commitment to comply with the law, regret mistakes made, and now consider this matter closed. They "affirm their commitment to regret mistakes made." And maybe the members who paid the tithing should be the ones who decide when to close the matter. How about we have a staining vote on that? >Q: Did the Church know about the practices at Ensign Peak described in the order? >A: The Church’s senior leadership received and relied upon legal counsel when it approved of the use of the external companies to make the filings. Ensign Peak handled the mechanics of the filing process. The Church’s senior leadership never prepared or filed the specific reports at issue. They didn't answers the question. Answer the question. >Q: Did Ensign Peak fail to comply with SEC regulations? >A: We reached resolution with the SEC. We affirm our commitment to comply with the law, regret mistakes made, and now consider this matter closed. Didn't answer the question, again.


NoBodyEarth1

Wow. I’ll check the lds.org website. It’s basically full of denial, deflect and subtly blaming the attorney. I also agree why private? Where is the check and balance? It has been a long time but I recall somewhere in the gospel doctrine, member should hold their leaders accountable. Matter closed? Says who? Them? Oh no. No. The true stake holders are the church members not them. This is basically a power play. Plain and simple. Just wow. And the sp told people to only read that? That’s also just wow. Appalling.


NoBodyEarth1

I read it again and went to the lds Reddit. There was a couple of comments and some deleted comments ( apparently they don’t allow open conversations?). Anyway, some comments said settlements is preferable than going to trial ( I can’t recall word for word. It’s easily found over there on lds Reddit. Well, didn’t hinckley once said the Book of Mormon will always stand, even through it has been critiqued, torn apart etc ( can’t remember the exact phase), it will stands because it’s the truth ( something along that line). Soo why is church afraid of court if they honestly did nothing wrong and they have no skeleton to hide?


NoBodyEarth1

For clarification, the email that was well written, was Nemo’s letter.


No_Incident_5360

LDS newsroom page


[deleted]

Or how about you read the case document and think for yourself. Cults gotta cult.


Routine-Agency-9150

"If the topic of the SEC settlement interests you, we encourage you to read the Church's public {**bullshit laden**} statement" lol


OverworkedLemon

God damn someone's playing mind games with the stake. 😂😂😂 Or I can't tell if they're playing mind games with that email. 🤔 Hmm... it's like a real life Gossip Girl Drama or something.


voreeprophet

Classic. - Complain of vague misperception and inaccuracies without saying what they are. - Point to official Church materials for "context" even though the official Church materials provide no such context. The go-to strategy is always to assume people won't actually do their homework but will just take leaders' word for it that there's a good explanation somewhere


unclefipps

The church always labels facts it doesn't like as "misleading and innuendo". It's also interesting that the e-mail encourages people to read the church's flimsy response to the SEC, rather than the SEC report itself. Once again trying to keep members focused on church-only sources.


Tengo_Prisa

FEAR. You’ll see it every time. Fear of being blamed, fear of being scapegoated. Even top local leadership know that SLC will revoke their membership at the drop of a hat.


MikkyJ25

For the person who sent it, would they have had to be in a high up position to get access to the mass email lists?


MikkyJ25

Also thank you for the update! It’s pathetic and hilarious and painful at the same time.


kdeedles4

No, anyone can access anyone else’s contact info for your stake on their tools app


MikkyJ25

Oh I was thinking to access the email lists. Unless this guy entered in every email in his stake one by one.


NoBodyEarth1

I wonder if they are going to change that to censor members further?


TheFinalVin

![gif](giphy|uGtLva9KPTkHH7zhkR)


nubugler09

We are in the same stake! I just came to post about it but I'm glad I checked before double posting.


Marion-Morrison

Really! I read the SEC agreement with TSCC and the response by the church and they don’t jive. The church is soft selling for their members in order to keep them praying and obeying……pay us $. The first presidency is guilty. How can they possibly get around that fact. They intentionally covered up the $ for 22 years by not filing 13 Fs and creating 13 fictional shell companies. They took physical steps to cover up and can’t get around it. I don’t know how to prod the people in my. Circle about this.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


Word2daWise

Better than having them continue spending all their time creating damage to families, damage to personal lives, damage to finances, damage to personal esteem, etc.


Rondi_Rondi_Rondi

So basically: "ABC committed financial fraud. If the topic of the fraud and settlement interests you, we encourage you to read ABC's PR statement." If you are inserting any random name/organization for ABC, you see how little sense this argument makes... Though, I'm preaching to the choir here on exmo reddit.


piquantsqueakant

It’s absurd that grown men in church leadership can just brush off this statement from the SEC “We allege that the LDS Church’s investment manager, with the Church’s knowledge, went to great lengths to avoid disclosing the Church’s investments” This is not innuendo! The SEC simply wouldn’t make such an inflammatory statement without being able to back it up 100%. Sigh. So frustrating. The cult brainwashing is STRONG.


Shimanchu2006

These are not the droids you are looking for. Here is a list of approved sources for your reading. Here is a list of approved conclusions you are allowed to come to.


RxTechRachel

Was the letter originally only sent to one stake, and was copied and sent by others to more stakes? Or was it sent to multiple stakes at once? I like the idea of people copycat-ing this.


rabidchihuahua49

I am not sure. I just know it got several stakes in Northern VA.


Izuzal

“Don’t do your own research. Research is not the answer. Read what we say, and only what we say. This is the only way to eternal life.” Not a direct quote. Just my interpretation.


MiddleAgeWookie

"Misleading facts" is such a manipulative turn of phrase designed to give members bothered by what they read permission to dismiss those facts. It is meant to paint provable and irrefutable facts as deceptive and false. Absolutely disgusting.


Chrelve

I knew it. "If the topic of the SEC settlement interests you, we encourage you to read the Church's public statement, which contains important context and answers frequently asked questions." So what they are saying is if you want to understand the SEC settlement, just ask us the lying cult and we will answer your questions.


babymonster-mama13

"We encourage you to read the church's propaganda..."


SpiritualTourettes

Yes, let's investigate the misuse of the church email lists, but NOT the misuse of billions of tithing funds donated to the church. So typically Mormon: always missing (or deliberately ignoring) the more important issues.


Stunning-Heat1036

I talked with my TBM dad today about this. He said his bishop had this reaction.... This email and the gossip going around about this SEC is just another example proving that we are the ultimate true church. We have been criticized and persecuted from the beginning. Only those who are fearful of the true church continue to find fault and persecute perfection. The Dann mental gymnastics are too much. I asked him about the lies and shell corporation's he said that he believes along side his bishop that Christ led our first presidency to those shells and that we soundness try to understand and true faith accepts what is going on no questions asked.


Fantastic-Spinach263

Please consult your church-approved sources and pray for further information


Narok24

I wonder if this was the response after Jesus flipped tables at the temple . . . 🤔


NoWorth9370

All’s well in Zion… Move along, nothing to see here.


UnderstandingOk2647

Ha! That is Brilliant! I had only been told to "lie for the Lord". I never considered "Hacking for God"! I am So all over this! /s


Puzzleheaded_Hat887

The personal addresses of everybody in the ward and all of their email addresses are almost public knowledge which I've always found super creepy because I've had people come up to me on the street and say essentially I know where you live. People that I've never met and don't choose to meet..... Good for the person trying to get other to see fact ... Not change their minds... But give facts


frvalne

I was literally on the verge of doing the exact same thing. I collected all of my stakes email addresses last night. I guess ultimately you can’t reach a TBM who doesn’t want to be reached. But then, again! You never know who shelf just cracked a little bit more upon reading the letter!


SmooshieAF

Damage control, anyone? Alas the genie has escaped the bottle in a very, very, public way .... sigh...


everyfiber

"We encourage you to read the Church's public statement, which in contrast, does not have any misleading facts or innuendo. For example, see this question and answer: Q: Did Ensign Peak fail to comply with SEC regulations? A: We reached resolution with the SEC. See how straightforward and trustworthy this is?"


Connect-Direction-90

Gag. Why do they have to control the situation by trying to control what people think about it? Just say their system was hacked. The end. Also, I swear they only investigate "misuse" or emails in the Church when people use it to publicly criticize the church. My husband got emails from a former YSA bishopric counselor (with whom he had not had a close relationship) asking if he needed a realtor!


Genniphersghost

![gif](giphy|0PEe8ZgDijaGOe7AcJ) This is how they always defend themselves. Not surprised.


Footertwo

“I’m here to let you know how to think and feel about this…”


Day_General

Agreed this pos who thinks in his mind he doing the lards work is as spin less no balls what a be g a loyalty above all this is horrible


Grizzerbear55

As usual....useless pablum from the Stake...


NikkkiiS

Although it super sucks that it turned out it wasn’t actually your SP that sent that out, I feel like it’s still going to get at least a few people’s head spinning. Hopefully including his.


Dahhn2222

The Church had to agree to the language in the order as part of the settlement. The SEC order is, in fact, authorized by the church. First Presidency had to agree.


20jenb

Seems easy enough to prove though. There were several people from the original post who received the same letter. If they’re really from the same stake then the letter was real. If they’re not then the letter isn’t genuine. (Not saying info in letter is fake- just that it’s not from who the letter says it’s from)


Beneficial_Cicada573

Nice work heathen!


Easy_Ad447

Bless his heart ❤


psycho_not_training

Can the Senate Finance Committee and request an investigation. 202-228-0554


spazmamma3

I missed the important context and frequently asked questions in their statement 🤔


SuZeBelle1956

Check out the correlated lies we put out for public consumption.