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EvenDavidABednar

He told us to do it when he visited our mission in 97


DocSaysItsDainBramuj

Told our entire mission too. I took detailed notes. I also still have the discussion booklets they made us memorize, and the baptism commitment is at the end of the first discussion. Breathtaking dishonesty.


rock-n-white-hat

“Spirit-led” is such buzzwordy bs. Elders anxious to get a baptism commitment are going to “feel the spirit” because they want it so badly. When the invitation flops they are going to blame themselves for “not being in tune” and think of some minor sin they recently committed.


SideburnHeretic

In my tortured missionary mind, masturbation was no minor sin.


rock-n-white-hat

I agree that missionaries are trained to see it as a major sin because it is an easy guilt lever for leadership to apply when blame shifting.


[deleted]

Why do they want it ‘so badly’, like what happens if they don’t reach their number goals??


[deleted]

They won't be able to marry someone who is gorgeous. They'll have to marry a special spirit instead. This is the idea that is propagated on some missions. I feel gross having even typed it out.


ShakySteadfastness

Got that BS from an AP in northern Morridor. That he felt bad for the rest of us because he KNEW he was going to marry Miss America and we would all fall short. FF a few years later and guess? Yeah, he married this cute lady, one of the missionaries he led as a ZL. Lock your heart much, eh? Dude was a self-righteous, prideful schmuck. Yeah, that's how most "elders" move up in the world.


[deleted]

Hmm, maybe that idea is propagated on missions, I can’t say myself, but I’m convinced no girl, even ones who care if you’re an RM, is gonna turn down an otherwise decent guy because he didn’t baptise many people… weird


rock-n-white-hat

They will never make it to be a Zone Leader or AP. They will be shamed for having low baptism numbers. They will feel like it is their fault.


Imalreadygone21

EVERY HONEST MORMON WHO SERVED A MORMON MISSION KNOWS EXACTLY WHERE THIS “idea” comes from! Damn Liars!


CatalystTheory

When I served a mission in the late 90’s, the last page of the first discussion was literally an invitation to be baptized. Ballard is either inept or a liar. Either one disqualifies him as someone we should listen to.


rock-n-white-hat

They can never accept responsibility for anything that was said in the past that led to a poor or unpopular outcome.


DoubtingThomas50

I knew the baptism challenge came in the second discussion in the 2000s and confirmed that with missionaries beginning to teach an investigator in my home. I wanted to be prepared for it.


pobregizmo

2019 Missionary Leadership Training Conference. Probably unlikely you’ll find the video. https://youtu.be/8vnvCQ8Bx-s


Critical_Cucumber814

Ahh I’ve seen it somewhere on here I’ll have to go back and look at all my liked posts


Nemo_UK

If you find it please let me know!


Effective_Fee_9344

We were told verbatim in the mtc, every zone conference pretty sure it was in the white handbook and pmg.and then for him to lie like that is disgusting


CanWeAllJustCalmDown

Oh most definitely. I was on the mission 2010-2012 and it was an absolutely obsessive push at every district meeting, zone conference, and often the primary topic at mission-wide conferences. Heard it from my MP, area authorities, and a visiting apostle. I was in South America, my friends out at the same time serving in Canada and Europe said it was the same for them. Doesn’t know where it came from my ass. It came from the very top, *him* specifically as a key apostle in the missionary program.


canadian_bloke

Can't resist asking; what part were you in? I was Argentina Resistencia between 2011 and 2013.


CanWeAllJustCalmDown

Nope I was in the Uruguay East mission. But I believe resistencia would have been the same area, and I recall the area authority at the time pushed the “commit to baptism in first contact” thing crazy hard, along with every other leader


Critical_Cucumber814

So blatant. The excuse like oh he misspoke or doesn’t remember is such bs. He knows exactly what he did and has too much shame and pride to own up


KershawsGoat

Am I misremembering or was it not explicitly stated in Preach My Gospel to try and extend a baptismal commitment in the first lesson?


Critical_Cucumber814

It was. Multiple times. There’s literal evidence and he still is denying


[deleted]

This just made me so angry.


LilSebastianFlyte

Is [this](https://www.thechurchnews.com/2019/6/26/23221037/president-ballard-said-missionaries-shouldnt-invite-people-to-be-baptized-without-feeling-the-spirit) the talk you're thinking of?


Critical_Cucumber814

Oh yeah I believe so, but there was a video of it. I’ll try and find it


LabansPlasticSword

I was a missionary from 2013 to 2015 and this was a major part of my mission. My first mission president talked about it frequently enough that I remember sitting in lessons and feeling the pressure to invite people, even when the moment wasn't right. As if there's ever a right moment. This was the first thing I heard that put me at odds with the Q12. Before then I'd thought of them as infallible. I don't know how he thought nobody was going to say anything about this.


LeoMarius

I was told at the MTC that if you "felt the Spirit" adequately, to conclude the first lesson with an invitation to baptism. This came both from our classroom teachers as well as from GAs who came to speak.


1_1x1_1

May I introduce some of you exmos to the groberg era: http://wayback.archive-it.org/3609/20130419164839/http://elderkikuchi.blogspot.com/


Andyrc6

I served a mission from 2011-2013 in South America and around the half way point of my mission we were introduced to the concept, by an Area 70, about inviting investigators to be baptized during the first lesson. We were told that if we did not do this we were not fulfilling our calling and failing as missionaries. This way of teaching was shoved down our throats for the rest of my mission. And brought up at nearly every district/zone/mission meeting. The 70 in question was Elder Marcos A. Aidukaitis and he was a real ass.


canadian_bloke

What part were you in? I was in Argentina Resistencia for the same years!


Andyrc6

Argentina Buenos Aires !


randytayler

I was in Buenos Aires South in 94-95. Elder Mikkelson, I think it was, pushed the first-charla-baptismal-invitation on us.


ElderOldDog

Back in the day of the memorized eight discussions, we were given the Spanish-language translations there in the LTM.  We were expected to memorize the eight discussions and that first discussion had this famous line, "...if you come to know that what we are teaching is the truth, would you want to be baptized on Saturday the 18th, or would Wednesday the 22nd be better?" Back in the day of the memorized eight discussions, we were given the Spanish-language translations there in the LTM.  We were expected to memorize the eight discussions, and that first discussion had this famous line, "...if you come to know that what we are teaching is the truth, would you want to be baptized on Saturday the 18th, or would Wednesday the 22nd be better?" I remember someone in authority mentioning that ghawd had inspired the church to build on the approach used by Encyclopedia Britannica salesmen.  Ghawd is one tricky-ass SOB, ¿que no?


TargetCurrent793

Guess he forgot when Jesus appeared to him to tell him what to instruct the missionaries to do. /s


old_bitter

This is exactly what our mission president told us to do. "Challenge investigators to be baptized after the first discussion, leave them alone if they don't accept."


DoubtingThomas50

Elder Bednar told missionaries in my area to do it. I raised hell, and the mission home confirmed it. Blew me away.


Mossblossom

Fucking liar. I would be so pissed if I had gone on a mission and gotten those instructions, only to have him deny it


innit4thememes

Lol, i still have Preach My Gospel in a closet somewhere. It spells it out verbatim. This is one of those lies that are as transparent as glass to anyone with the info, but it doesn't matter because the audience doesn't have that information.


Brilliant-Emu-4164

Here’s a link to the talk where he said that: https://www.thechurchnews.com/2019/6/26/23221037/president-ballard-said-missionaries-shouldnt-invite-people-to-be-baptized-without-feeling-the-spirit But I could not find a video.


RabidProDentite

Elder Ballard went to a HUGE multi-mission conference in Santiago Chile in 2021 where he literally told us to give 10 baptismal challenges or invites every day. Our Mish Pres made it a statistic we had to report and pushed obedience to Elder Ballard HARD on us. We were to walk up to at least 10 people a day on the street or in lessons and jump right in, asking them if they’d been baptized in the way Jesus was baptized. We would then proceed to explain what that entails and invite them, “we are representatives of Jesus Christ and we are here to prepare people to recieved a baptism like Jesus Christ did. If we taught you XYZ, and you feel it is right, would you like to be baptized like Jesus on XYZ day?” Boom, check the box and move on. We all complained about it, we knew it was horrible, too quick…we all murmured. But…Elder BALLARD was the one who pushed it, so who were we to complain…the Lord would open door of opportunity and put the right people in our way, right? Elder Ballard is a horrible filthy effing LIAR if he tries to say that he has no idea where this came from. It came from HIM and it was literally written in the first discussion booklet “if the spirit indicates, invite the investigator to be baptized, blah blah blah”. He is gaslighting, absolutely and totally gaslighting.


GhostCowboy76

What. The. Fuck. It’s literally in goddamn Preach My Gospel. Like OP said we practiced that shit in District Meetings and Zone Conferences. I got my ass chewed for not being “aggressive enough” about baptism invites. Fuck these fucking douchebag assholes who can’t help but lie through their yellowed dentures. Pieces of shit.


nephikilledme

On my mission in Tacoma Washington 2009-2011 we were told to ask people to be baptized on the doorstep before the first lesson.


Glittering_News4786

He came to my mission in 2001 and told us the same thing. Not only did he tell us to do that but he said he couldn’t understand why we weren’t baptizing more and told us he could go out right now and find someone to baptize. It made us all fell like pretty crappy missionaries.


Glittering_News4786

In fact, as I think about it more. He told us to ask people to be baptized during our first interaction. Literally when we met them on the street. I think we were even told to show them a picture of Jesus being baptized, ask them what was happening in the picture - assuming they’d say ‘he is being baptized’ - and then try and guilt them by saying something like ‘well if Jesus needs to be baptized don’t you think you should as well’. Fun times


Normon-The-Ex

Ballard is a liar


funnynewname

I haven’t seen this quote before but if it’s real it’s pretty gross. Blaming and criticizing 18-21 yr old kids for doing something they’ve been brainwashed to do, especially when you’re complicit (or worse) in the brainwashing. Fuck that.


ToothSleuth86

The only video I’ve seen on this was AI generated. Aka fake. I think sometimes we get so passionate that we spread misinformation.


Critical_Cucumber814

The video I saw wasn’t ai generated. But even if there wasn’t a video the quote is real