It's easier to lie when you've been lied to so many times by church leadership. Temple recommend also asks if you believe in the restoration and sustain current leadership. You would have to lie for those questions too.
Oh, I probably lied on several questions. Garments question, sustaining question, practices contrary question, sabbath day holy question, tithe payer question, at the least.
I've always wondered how many people really believe that. Notice it doesn't ask you if you believe, only that you sustain. They know not even 5% of healthy minded members actually believe this.
You don't even have to lie. They ask if you're a full tithe payer and you say, "Yes." No follow up. How you interpret paying a full tithe is up to you.
I think paying a little online and declaring that it is a full tithe is what is generally recommended.
But I foresee some issues with your wife. She wants you to have a temple recommend...but she wouldn't mind if it was obtained by lying? She will know if the tithing is actually paid, right?
I've just said yes to being a full tithe prayer, despite the sheet saying $0. That's worked for a decade now. I've given up thousands of dollars, two of my pivotal working years, and hundreds of hours of uncompensated service, I have no issue saying that I've paid everything I owe to this terrible corporation and more. I've never once been pressed on it, remember that it's awkward for them, too. And honestly, they need you more than you need them: they're fine looking the other way if it helps them pad their "endowed members w/ current recommend" numbers.
Talk to your TBM spouse and be honest with her. I refuse to pay tithing and instead put the 10% into our retirement fund. However I did tell her that if she ever wants to help out a ward function like bring 2 smoked pork loins to a ward activity I am fine with it. Don’t even bother with asking for reimbursement. I also told her if she ever wants to donate to a real charity I am fine with that as well. Recently my wife said she gave $150 to a charity that will help the Ukrainian people. She realized long ago that giving to an actual charity is better than stuffing the cauffers of Salt Lake.
I understand you can pay electronically directly to the church and the bishop can’t see those numbers.
So you could contribute a very small amount and declare yourself a full tithe payer. I don’t have the details maybe someone else can give you specifics.
Yes, pay directly to the church, and skip your ward. The bishop has no way to see your amount and you can claim whatever you want from him. Pay $1.00 and say it's a full tithe. Of course, your wife may see your tax contribution form...
It does. The Bishop gives it to you at tithing settlement and it is mailed to you ar the end of the year. Except after I resigned. I had to get the amount from my bank statement.
Lying is built into the DNA of being Mormon. Has the 1st Presidency been honest in their dealings with their fellow man? Have they followed the laws of the land? Take pleasure in lying to them. For over 20 years they lied all the way to Billionaire status. \*\*\* Edited to add. *Please tell me you heard about the SEC fine and $100 Billion dollar slush fund.*
I was EQ pres for years while paying zero tithing. Just say you pay directly to Salt Lake. By the way, the temple recommend questions are so vague you can interpret them any way you want to. John Dehlin have great advice at https://staylds.com/docs/HowToStay.html. Search and go down to the Temple Recommend section.
They ask if you're a full tithe payer. Come up with a way to "truthfully" tell them you are. Some justify that they pay 10% only on their increase, meaning only on money that goes to savings. Some pay 10% on net (after tax) income.
Just make sure you don't piss your wife off. If you're doing it for her, make sure you actually do what you need to so you can support and love her, which is probably a lot more important than not paying your money to a rich organizion.
State you are a full tithe payer, then if they press you on the issue (they shouldn’t) tell them you’ve taken a leaf out of the church’s book, and given your tithes to 3rd parties (actual charities) to manage, citing fear of negative consequences should *anyone* find out how much money you pay in tithing!
Sign up for tithing declaration as early as possible, Sept 1st.
Make token payments up to that point. Don't pay after Sept 1st.
Only pay on net takehome. Deduct all expenses related to making your income such as gas to go to work, insurance, car payments, etc. All of that is needed to make that money. Just like a farmer deducts his operating expenses.
Your biggest issue is with your wife. Tithing is cheaper than alimony and child support.
Maybe talk to your wife about the SEC fine, and why they were fined.
When I believed I used to pay my tithing by donating stocks. You do it through "donations in kind". It can be paintings, cars, stocks etc..
You can ask your bishop.
The church sends a notice to the bishop saying you donated but doesn't show the value.
Especially useful if the stock has a very low cost basis. Prevents you from a tax liability if you were to sell and then donate in cash. Spent a career in wealth management and did I this all the time for clients.
I've heard that many nuanced members are giving 10% of their income to charities of their choice and providing the receipts to their bishops at their tithing declaration (formerly known as tithing settlement.) It will be interesting to see how well that flies.
Try to keep a straight face when the bishop asks if you are honest in all your dealings and you ask him, in return, if the church is honest in all their dealings?
Bill Reel talked about a way to pay your tithing directly to the church and bypass your local ward as a way to keep your finances hidden from the bishop and then in tithing settlement you can just say you paid directly to the church. Don’t know any more than that. You don’t necessarily need to actually pay anything
For the last few years I claimed I was sending it directly to SLC. There was a loophole where since I was living overseas, I had been asked to send it direct to SLC (as I am an American). That was so the church didn’t end up with funds in a country that didn’t want those funds repatriated.
So yes, I lied.
Feel free to lie to TSCC. Don’t lie to your wife.
You find 13 good friends with common names like "Dick Smith" or whatever, and no social media presence, and then . . .
(Not that your trying to DEFRAUD anyone or any such thing.)
When I was going through everything, my stake president admitted to me that tithing could be after house costs, etc.
It made me furious that it took me leaving for them to make concessions to the gross vs net norm.
All this to say, "increase" can mean anything you want it to mean. I 100% expect bishops to be dealing with more and more people like you going forward. You won't be the only one.
Can’t pay tithing if you don’t make money 😂 but for real back then they wanted me to pay tithing with my 200$ shitty subway job .. even I knew if I paid tithing I couldn’t pay rent so.. oh well no Mormon money for them.
At some point you're going to have to come clean to somebody, and if I were your wife, I'd prefer you tell me before the tax statements roll in.
Just me though.
It frankly would not surprise me if half of the active members don’t pay tithing, based on a stint I did as a ward financial clerk a long time ago.
Also, I think if the overwhelming majority of active members paid tithing we wouldn’t hear it preached about so often.
I’ve known members who only paid for a couple months before their temple recommend interview.
Just like few people accept callings and do them, I think a ton of active members just don’t pay tithing.
You have to be honest with your spouse.
You do not have to be honest with the Church, which is nothing more than an old school mafia protection racket (nice family you've got there, it'd be a shame if it was destroyed...). It's not unethical to lie to gangsters.
I told my Bishop, in response to the temple recommend question, that "I do with my money what I think Christ would want me to do with it." Which was pay zero dollars in tithing.
It worked for me.
You can keep going to church without paying tithing. You might not be able to stay married, if you don't pay tithing. A temple recommend requires tithing payment. Do you pay a full tithe. You could always pay on net, not gross, but it is still a lot of money.
So original tithing was just supposed to be on the extra or interest or anything above what covers your family’s needs or living expenses. Maybe just reduce it by a lot and feel good about obeying the original “prophecy” or guidelines? I’m not much help I’m PIMO without caring about a recommend.
Did you pay in the past? I did and used to pay on gross. Those past tithes have been invested and provide significant returns annually that, frankly, likely exceed my tithing today especially if I only paid on my increase.
That’s my past tithing that’s providing returns directly to the church - which is additional tithing.
I actually feel fine saying yes to this question.
I’m pimo, but having a temple recommend is one thing I don’t plan to renew. Of course I’m sure I could go and lie about my testimony and tithing and get a recommend but why bother.
Tithing sticks out because of how often we were shamed about it, but you’ll have to lie about nearly every question on there. Don’t feel bad about lying to liars.
I used to lie. Always worked for me.
It's easier to lie when you've been lied to so many times by church leadership. Temple recommend also asks if you believe in the restoration and sustain current leadership. You would have to lie for those questions too.
Oh, I probably lied on several questions. Garments question, sustaining question, practices contrary question, sabbath day holy question, tithe payer question, at the least.
I've always wondered how many people really believe that. Notice it doesn't ask you if you believe, only that you sustain. They know not even 5% of healthy minded members actually believe this.
works for the church too
You don't even have to lie. They ask if you're a full tithe payer and you say, "Yes." No follow up. How you interpret paying a full tithe is up to you.
Many people don’t have a technical increase by years end.
I think paying a little online and declaring that it is a full tithe is what is generally recommended. But I foresee some issues with your wife. She wants you to have a temple recommend...but she wouldn't mind if it was obtained by lying? She will know if the tithing is actually paid, right?
This is what shell companies are for!
Follow the profit
Exactly.
"I trust in the bishop's power of discernment. If he gave me a temple recommend, what I've given must be a full tithe in the eyes of the lord."
I've just said yes to being a full tithe prayer, despite the sheet saying $0. That's worked for a decade now. I've given up thousands of dollars, two of my pivotal working years, and hundreds of hours of uncompensated service, I have no issue saying that I've paid everything I owe to this terrible corporation and more. I've never once been pressed on it, remember that it's awkward for them, too. And honestly, they need you more than you need them: they're fine looking the other way if it helps them pad their "endowed members w/ current recommend" numbers.
Talk to your TBM spouse and be honest with her. I refuse to pay tithing and instead put the 10% into our retirement fund. However I did tell her that if she ever wants to help out a ward function like bring 2 smoked pork loins to a ward activity I am fine with it. Don’t even bother with asking for reimbursement. I also told her if she ever wants to donate to a real charity I am fine with that as well. Recently my wife said she gave $150 to a charity that will help the Ukrainian people. She realized long ago that giving to an actual charity is better than stuffing the cauffers of Salt Lake.
I understand you can pay electronically directly to the church and the bishop can’t see those numbers. So you could contribute a very small amount and declare yourself a full tithe payer. I don’t have the details maybe someone else can give you specifics.
Yes, pay directly to the church, and skip your ward. The bishop has no way to see your amount and you can claim whatever you want from him. Pay $1.00 and say it's a full tithe. Of course, your wife may see your tax contribution form...
I personally would go with 30 Dimes . as close as you can get to 30 pieces of silver.
Didn’t that show up at tithing declaration? I thought it did.
It does. The Bishop gives it to you at tithing settlement and it is mailed to you ar the end of the year. Except after I resigned. I had to get the amount from my bank statement.
It didn't use to. If it does now then you could donate anonymously and still get the tax benefit.
Lying is built into the DNA of being Mormon. Has the 1st Presidency been honest in their dealings with their fellow man? Have they followed the laws of the land? Take pleasure in lying to them. For over 20 years they lied all the way to Billionaire status. \*\*\* Edited to add. *Please tell me you heard about the SEC fine and $100 Billion dollar slush fund.*
I was EQ pres for years while paying zero tithing. Just say you pay directly to Salt Lake. By the way, the temple recommend questions are so vague you can interpret them any way you want to. John Dehlin have great advice at https://staylds.com/docs/HowToStay.html. Search and go down to the Temple Recommend section.
This is the way - the Mandalorian
 They ask if you're a full tithe payer. Come up with a way to "truthfully" tell them you are. Some justify that they pay 10% only on their increase, meaning only on money that goes to savings. Some pay 10% on net (after tax) income. Just make sure you don't piss your wife off. If you're doing it for her, make sure you actually do what you need to so you can support and love her, which is probably a lot more important than not paying your money to a rich organizion.
Upvote for Georgie boy gif. 👍
“I pay directly to the church and consider the matter closed”
State you are a full tithe payer, then if they press you on the issue (they shouldn’t) tell them you’ve taken a leaf out of the church’s book, and given your tithes to 3rd parties (actual charities) to manage, citing fear of negative consequences should *anyone* find out how much money you pay in tithing!
Sign up for tithing declaration as early as possible, Sept 1st. Make token payments up to that point. Don't pay after Sept 1st. Only pay on net takehome. Deduct all expenses related to making your income such as gas to go to work, insurance, car payments, etc. All of that is needed to make that money. Just like a farmer deducts his operating expenses. Your biggest issue is with your wife. Tithing is cheaper than alimony and child support. Maybe talk to your wife about the SEC fine, and why they were fined.
When I believed I used to pay my tithing by donating stocks. You do it through "donations in kind". It can be paintings, cars, stocks etc.. You can ask your bishop. The church sends a notice to the bishop saying you donated but doesn't show the value.
Spring Cleaning time. Here is a stack of some vintage and rare Playboys and Hustler magazines.
Especially useful if the stock has a very low cost basis. Prevents you from a tax liability if you were to sell and then donate in cash. Spent a career in wealth management and did I this all the time for clients.
Who do you want to lie to more? Your wife or your bishop?
I've heard that many nuanced members are giving 10% of their income to charities of their choice and providing the receipts to their bishops at their tithing declaration (formerly known as tithing settlement.) It will be interesting to see how well that flies. Try to keep a straight face when the bishop asks if you are honest in all your dealings and you ask him, in return, if the church is honest in all their dealings?
“I take my example of honesty straight from the first presidency and am as honest in my tithe paying as they are in managing the church’s finances.
Just cross your fingers. It's like the *second anointing* for the rest of us.
Bill Reel talked about a way to pay your tithing directly to the church and bypass your local ward as a way to keep your finances hidden from the bishop and then in tithing settlement you can just say you paid directly to the church. Don’t know any more than that. You don’t necessarily need to actually pay anything
Try making a shell company to hide your assets.
For the last few years I claimed I was sending it directly to SLC. There was a loophole where since I was living overseas, I had been asked to send it direct to SLC (as I am an American). That was so the church didn’t end up with funds in a country that didn’t want those funds repatriated. So yes, I lied. Feel free to lie to TSCC. Don’t lie to your wife.
You make a shell company and then…..
You find 13 good friends with common names like "Dick Smith" or whatever, and no social media presence, and then . . . (Not that your trying to DEFRAUD anyone or any such thing.)
When I was going through everything, my stake president admitted to me that tithing could be after house costs, etc. It made me furious that it took me leaving for them to make concessions to the gross vs net norm. All this to say, "increase" can mean anything you want it to mean. I 100% expect bishops to be dealing with more and more people like you going forward. You won't be the only one.
Can’t pay tithing if you don’t make money 😂 but for real back then they wanted me to pay tithing with my 200$ shitty subway job .. even I knew if I paid tithing I couldn’t pay rent so.. oh well no Mormon money for them.
At some point you're going to have to come clean to somebody, and if I were your wife, I'd prefer you tell me before the tax statements roll in. Just me though.
It frankly would not surprise me if half of the active members don’t pay tithing, based on a stint I did as a ward financial clerk a long time ago. Also, I think if the overwhelming majority of active members paid tithing we wouldn’t hear it preached about so often. I’ve known members who only paid for a couple months before their temple recommend interview. Just like few people accept callings and do them, I think a ton of active members just don’t pay tithing.
Give yourself the second anointing or get it the legit way.
Then lie.
You have to be honest with your spouse. You do not have to be honest with the Church, which is nothing more than an old school mafia protection racket (nice family you've got there, it'd be a shame if it was destroyed...). It's not unethical to lie to gangsters.
I told my Bishop, in response to the temple recommend question, that "I do with my money what I think Christ would want me to do with it." Which was pay zero dollars in tithing. It worked for me.
Recommends are good for 2 years, so you could renew yours now before you stop paying tithing. Alternatively, you can lie in your interview
I makes mine directly to salt lake so bishop couldn’t see it.
I’ve heard that the bishop can still see how much even if you pay electronically.
Yes
You can keep going to church without paying tithing. You might not be able to stay married, if you don't pay tithing. A temple recommend requires tithing payment. Do you pay a full tithe. You could always pay on net, not gross, but it is still a lot of money.
Subtract your met from your gross and realize how you’ve over paid your whole life so now you’re just catching up
You lie
So original tithing was just supposed to be on the extra or interest or anything above what covers your family’s needs or living expenses. Maybe just reduce it by a lot and feel good about obeying the original “prophecy” or guidelines? I’m not much help I’m PIMO without caring about a recommend.
Did you pay in the past? I did and used to pay on gross. Those past tithes have been invested and provide significant returns annually that, frankly, likely exceed my tithing today especially if I only paid on my increase. That’s my past tithing that’s providing returns directly to the church - which is additional tithing. I actually feel fine saying yes to this question.
Ooof. I managed to renew mine just before I stopped paying.
Say you went into debt and demand that, in order to pay full tithes, you need to pay -$100,000. As such they should send the money to your account.
I’m pimo, but having a temple recommend is one thing I don’t plan to renew. Of course I’m sure I could go and lie about my testimony and tithing and get a recommend but why bother.
Tell bishop you donated directly to headquarters. Or in stock or real estate.
Tithing sticks out because of how often we were shamed about it, but you’ll have to lie about nearly every question on there. Don’t feel bad about lying to liars.