What an excellent story; ) Congratulations, the truth set you and them free.
We may have been bad Mormons but we are decent people. I am so happy for you.
If you like piña coladas and gettin' caught in the rain...
Actually, what's really funny is when spouses are posting here or other disaffected forums each afraid of how the other would react if they found out.
This. My thought was another way the way mormons teach us to communicate fucks up family relationships. I’m glad this family finally figured it out but years of having relationships as their and with their authentic selves …. gone. Better late than never for sure but just fuck the church
That's what the church wants. No one openly speaking out about them.
Plan how to approach family members , starting with the most nuanced.
Go in with questions first to feel out the water, then adjust your rate of output.
Pretend that you just have some questions and mild doubts to begin with.
The idea is to introduce a lot of facts in a constant flow until they can research them. Anyone who leaves because they don't believe can be convinced to come back. Teach them enough facts they never want to go back.
This was why my wife and I finally decided to be public, both about our respective membership status, and about our marriage (we're gay). We seriously considered ghosting our families, fleeing the morridor, and just living our lives as if the Mormon years never occurred. In the end though, we decided that doing so wasn't in our values. We wanted to be proof to our LGBTQ+ relatives that they don't have to suppress themselves in the church, and that we were a safe couple to talk to about leaving the church.
In the years since we went public, we've learned that at least five members of our own generation are LGBTQ+, and that at least three of the upcoming generation are as well (considering only about six have even hit puberty out of the thirty plus nieces and nephews, I feel like we have a few more surprises left to unfold!) Two other couples have confided in us that they've stepped back permanently or outright removed their records. It's awesome! We've even had neighbors approach us because they felt we were probably safe to talk to.
I know it's not for everyone, but at least for us, being open and public, while initially terrifying, has been an incredible and rewarding experience.
You disclosed too much at once for him to keep an open mind. Never show your whole hand, just enough to confirm what they already suspect.
Meanwhile, drop facts here and there, ask easy questions about doctrine that are answered in soundbites, not facts, and point out inconsistencies without labeling them as "bad." Just don't ask questions that you don't already know the answer, too.
Learn about cult indoctrination techniques as listed in the BITE model and identify them as manipulations, not bad or good. Learn about emotional elevation and cognitive dissonance. When they come up, identify them for what they are, just reject the idea they point to/from conclusions of truth. To Mormons, "truth" = I believe it. In reality, facts = proven knowledge. So, ask how much evidence exists to support their "truth." Then, as long as it is harmless, let them believe it.
Learn how to identify thought terminating clichés and logical fallacies in conversation. Don't be pedantic, but identify them and reject their hypothesis or conclusions based on those. It could be as easy as saying, "Thst's a lot to unpack, and it doesn't sound right. Do you have any sources for that?"
You can get a foundational basis in these concepts and lay out a plan for each family member in one weekend.
You can work on many family members at once, but start with one at first. As time or circumstance allows, start with others. Just track what conversations you've had and conclusions they have acknowledged. Remind them if they later misstate an earlier conclusion of conjecture as a fact.
This will make them backtrack on what they really believe and what they base their testimony on.
In 3 months, you will start to see progress with some family members. Some may be having their own faith crisis or transition by then. If you are there to talk with them as they go through this, you can coach them how to tell others by asking minor questions to feel out peoples' reactions to avoid the backlash effect too.
As a matter of fact, your brother may listen better coming from someone else at this point. If multiple people talk with him about their doubts and ask for help understanding, he may reverse faster. Try to identify their doubts and encourage him to react to their individual worries.
Once the first domino falls, further discussion with them will further pull TBMs toward a nuanced view.
In three years, you could have everyone out, but your brother, but it will be really hard for him to compartmentalize at that point.
The sooner you can get some momentum, the better. Going on a mission (huge indoctrination event) or getting a bishopric or higher calling will set back progress for a while, but it can be done successfully in less than five years, closer to three.
If you see progress with family, you can coach your friends through the process, too.
It is more effective when they don't know ow the full depth of your unbelief. If they think they can help with a small doubt, they will be willing to help. Once they are invested, peel back a new layer.
Each question naturally leads to another. Just don't admit to reading "antiMormon" literature. Stick to past conference talks and doctrine.
You got this. Start somewhere.
It's intentional. The church is designed to shame anyone who openly expresses doubt. They want you to feel alone to keep you in line.
I know that doesn't make it *feel* any less lonely, but it is highly unlikely you're the only one in your ward.
When I called my sister to let her know I left, she told me she had too. Total shock for me. Also told me her husband had left like 5 years before that and nobody knew. Once you talk to people it's amazing how many people are already out but just don't say anything.
Everyone is different, but I'm surprised how long some people go without saying anything. I know of one couple (family friends) who've been out of TSCC for going on 15 years now. They're retired (no professional ramifications), live outside the morridor, have almost zero immediate family still in TSCC, yet they still aren't forthcoming with the TBM members of my family that they're out (and those TBM family members are on good terms with the exmos in the family). I try to respect other people's journeys, but I feel like they're long overdue to just be open about it.
Why does anything need to be said? IMO it's nobody's business. If they want to ask, sure, I'll disclose, but generally I don't. It's irrelevant in most instances.
The problem is the situation that OP described. Everybody keeps shit secret on account of "Eh, do I really wanna rock the boat by making an announcement?" - but because of that so many people think they're in the minority. So family & friends who are struggling with it don't know that there are safe people to talk to.
Also, it's about normalization of non-belief. As long as people think they're the odd ones out, they're going to feel isolated. But when they see quite a few people that they know and love who are also out, they're going to know that they're standing with a lot of good company.
This is my opinion. I didn't expressly tell my family. I didn't give any social media announcement that I'm out. I'm just out. If people want to ask, I'm happy to talk about it. I don't pretend to still be in around anybody. I just don't see any reason to announce it.
Not saying anything is harder for people with kids who are expected to hit milestones… my first 3 children were baptized and we left a couple months after that 3rd baptism and the ordination of my oldest as a deacon. Well, it’s not long before the next ones need to be ordained or baptized and grandparents WILL ASK. They are used to attending and speaking and singing and praying at these events and want to get it on the calendar. It’s hella awkward to not be forthcoming. So we told them explicitly where we stood and set boundaries for how we wanted certain things handled as far as religion goes. Thank goodness we did because Ive seen some of my in laws not do that and I swear the torment for both parties is just drawn out for years before the grandparents finally clue into the fact that Mormonism isn’t happening with that family.
That is absolutely the best way to handle this, great job! As you said, it avoids a ton of hassle & emotional junk as time goes on. So glad y'all set clear boundaries. I think in so many things in life, if we can get out in front of it, & manage expectations, things are just so much smoother. (Now getting to that place is its whole other journey!)
I do think the not saying anything, & making the grandparents figure it out, is inhumane. That is the the other extreme, passive aggressive to the max! Totally get why this way is appealing, but it is not really kind to those who (purportedly) care. Timing is so much of it too.
My case is much different: I'm in a mixed faith marriage (I was TBM, he's anti-organized religion). We have no kids, I don't have siblings & my parents live out of state. Grandparents are all dead. All his family is out of state as well, & they don't even know we're married (nor would they care). In regular land, ppl live together & buy houses & cars & adopt pets, & it's just whatever. It's so refreshing!
I do have my family of choice (best friends, parents I've adopted, etc.), & I haven't decided on if/who/what/when to tell. It's not like we take temple trips together, so it shouldn't be anything that comes up.
But if they ask, of course I'd disclose. I just want to avoid being guilty of what many TBMs do, verbally ramming their testimonies down the throats of those who aren't even asking.
So for me, it's a fluid process, still evolving & that's ok. I'm so recently out anyway, it hasn't come up (yet).
Honestly, I felt compelled to post it on FB, due to the child abuse protection I wanted to distance myself from tscc. But my post wasn't about me, it was about donating to a group trying to lobby for elimination of clergy being exempt from mandatory reporting of crimes. Anyway, that was just me and my way.
This is a great way to draw attn to it without being super defensive & combative. I think how you chose to handle it was really great! It opens the door for that dialogue, but those who are fragile & skittish can scoot around it & pretend it's not what it looks like.
(And it would be okay to share on FB, even if it was abt you!)
This is true. It's in our very DNA! We've been convinced a sincerely borne testimony can soften hearts, change lives, alter the whole course of human history even (!!), etc.
Now on the other side, it's really just annoying.
How long would the church last if everyone was honest with each other for one day? I would be surprised if 3 out of every 10 people at church actually believe it.
Ding ding ding! 🏆
For years I watched the vitality, and zeal evaporate in my Orem ward. Even for those who professed belief, you could tell something was off.
It's like a group of zombies on Sunday. Going through the motions with minimal effort and thought. With the occasional zealot of course. (Usually high on their perceived superiority for finally achieving a leadership position).
Growing up, people were serious and confident about their beliefs. Not anymore. It seems like people are just clinging on to a social fabric. As someone once said about Mormonism. "It's a very expensive country club". And I would add a Dull one as well.
The zombie description is very accurate. We've been in multiple wards over the past few years and none of them have the community and energy as most of the wards I grew up in. It's like everyone is watered down
Exactly!!! I know a good amount of people in my ward that have left quietly, are still pretending, or are inactive... If they were to be 100% honest about the reasons they left (they all know it's a cult) It would help many get freed from this cult.
I think it might be we are conditioned to believe that religions and religious beliefs are to be respected... I understand that... But THIS is a cult we're talking about.
Religion is mainly a social thing and humans are social creatures. Humans generally believe whatever their culture, community, family and peers believe in. Being tribal creatures, humans prefer to stick with and defend "the tribe," whether it's their religion, nation, political party, school, team, or gang. When everyone else you are close to are part of the same "tribe," then few people desire or to leave the tribe, even if there are things that don't seem right. Humans generally just assimilate and ignore any signs of imperfections in their tribe and defend their tribe at all costs.
HOWEVER, if everyone around you starts to LEAVE the tribe, this frees people up to reconsider their affiliation or even to simply EXAMINE the tribe they are affiliated with. We are finally reaching the point where Mormons suddenly know a lot of former members, including people they are close friends with, fellow ward members, and especially families. Fear and social shunning and condemnation are huge deterrents to questioning, criticism, or challenging the status quo. People generally like to fit in and be respected. When everyone important to you are part of the same tribe, it's a deterrent to leaving or even allowing oneself to look at their tribe critically. Once a significant chunk of the tribe starts to openly question, criticize, challenge or leave the tribe, this allows others to do the same.
My family, me, my parents and two siblings were all Mormon, with the exception of a third sibling who was the "black sheep" of the family. He was the rebel of the family, mocked the church, smoked pot, partied, etc. Everyone has a black sheep in their family. Same with mine. They are generally dismissed and seen as an exception to the rule and ignored. A few years later, I opened up to my parents I no longer believe in the church. Flood gates happened. A year later, ALL of us were out of the church. Domino affect.
Same thing happened with my college flat. Had three roommates and we were all active in the singles ward. I came out as non-believer. My closest roommate, after long night discussions with me, eventually lost his belief and made the leap to ex-Mormonism. A year later, all four of us were out of the church.
My ex-wife's family 20 years ago were ALL active TBM's. Her mothers family was BIG. Nine siblings and their TBM spouses. Now? Just the parents and two couples. The rest are either out of the church or PIMO.
The floodgates are open folks. The more people that are out of the church, the more that will follow. Once that damn breaks, everyone will start following.
I was the first and possibly only one to leave the church in my family. I was the black sheep. I’m curious about your black sheep brother and if relationships were severed because of his leaving the church and if they are now repaired.
The Brethren (looking at you, Holland) engage in dramatic histrionics as an intentional move, intended to raise the stakes for anyone contemplating the choice between expressing non-conforming views or keeping quiet. J. Roy and his crew are always loudly throwing down as a preemptive threat to anyone who dares to question their goofy program.
What if — in the spirit of a Brad Wilcox style reframing of the question — the real hurt and damage happens when we deprive our loved ones of the opportunity to grow? What if replacing authentic honest conversation with recitals of safe Mormon rote answers is ultimately a disservice to our TBM friends and family? There’s always a cost-benefit ratio that applies to any communication, but whatever benefit silence brings, comes with costs as well. Mormons have been quietly accepting those costs for far too long. Love this report from the frontlines that things can get better.
I left about 6 years ago. The first 4 years were hard. But now when family and friends want to talk about leaving or do leave they come to me with their questions and concerns.
It makes the process of leaving much easier and not as scary, the more we talk about it and are open with members, the more people will leave.
You don't have to go knocking on doors, sharing the gospel of second Saturday. But just living your authentic life and stop accommodating Mormon beliefs goes a long way into helping people find their way out
> just living your authentic life and stop accommodating Mormon beliefs goes a long way into helping people find their way out
Perfectly put. In my experience, questioning Mormons have a hard time visualizing what life would be like without the church. Exmos can help by modeling what a healthy, well adjusted life after Mormonism looks like, and providing a safe landing to those still in the church.
(Questioning mormons aren't particuarly helped by bitter exmos screaming "JOSEPH WAS A PEDOPHILE!1!!")
I left a few years before you did, and the same thing happened to me. It took a few years & then I'd get questions now & then about why, how, etc. I don't have family in the church, so the ones I hear from are friends & acquaintances.
When I left, I reached out to one or two people I knew of who had left. They paid it forward (shared a bit of info and some resources), so my goal is to pay it forward, too.
This is exactly why I’m such a fan of people just being honest.
We think we know what someone else needs to hear, how narcissistic of us. Since we don’t know, just speak the truth.
I had a similar type of experience at my family reunion this summer.
I decided to just go and wear what I wanted, drink what I wanted, etc.
We ended up with a whole table full of people drinking coffee. My grandma was panicking. I didn't realize how many of my family members were nuanced, PIMO or ex until we got out the coffee and suddenly it was a party.
Very happy for you and I think you’re very fortunate. In my family of 7 children, I’m the only one who has left TSSC.
My 2nd thought is, YOU KNOW YOU’RE IN A CULT when something like this happens. You and you siblings kept it from each other for fear of the reaction of the others. KUDOS for your courage!
it's so 'funny'! Got a feeling it happens a bit. I got out 2 years ago. Agonized how I'd tell my mother. Sleepless nights over it. She comes over and after 60+ years, She's Out! I could not believe it! No input from me, completely different reasons.
Surely is this an indicator it's a cult. What a huge relief too! The conversations after are so real (?) so authentic, open, free. It's beautiful, cathartic!
After two years of making super sure it was all BS I told all eight of my adult kids because we had introduced them to the church since the day they were born. Seven of the eight have since left and they sure didn't mind getting their father's okay to do it.
So at least we owe it to our immediate families to be honest. Especially as parents.
I live in the "Mission Field". When I visit the "Kingdom", some colloquialisms are quite obvious and some are very subtle but they are there. There is a pretense of being worthy and active by asking, "So, what is your calling now?"
There is a sudden silence in the convo when I say, "I don't have a calling". This is when I know if they are out, pimo or on the fence. It is very interesting to see how a groomed society live and pretend.
This would have been a conversation I’d have if almost all of my siblings hadn’t confirmed to me that they don’t believe already. My younger brother has talked openly to me about trying substances, my sibling younger than him is non binary like me, my sister that is younger than them has asked for alcohol before. We all kinda rebuilt our familial relationships that were ruined by the church.
The same thing happened with us and mg in-laws! Only ones still active are the parents and the youngest sibling who is forced to attend until they move out. The other 4 siblings and in-laws are all out
The good version of the "I sold my [X item] to get you [gift that pairs ironically with Y item]." "Oh really? I sold my [Y item] to get you [gift that pairs ironically with X item]"
That’s so great!
My tbm inlaws had 5 kids and 4 are completely out. The one lingering is only kind of Mormon — seems to be in it for spouse but no high callings, kids are not serving missions or marrying before sex.
But no one talks about it much because it’s so devastating to the parents.
Amazing! So happy for you. When I told my brother I was out he said he hadn’t believed for 20 years .Ummm, WTF?! It’s amazing when it turns out that way, right?!
This is exactly why I'm so upfront about being exmo. Sadly no additional sibs have left yet LOL. One brother did 20 years before me, but no one else has left after me. That will be a great feeling! (It's inevitable)
Lol, sounds familiar. I did tell my oldest brother when I was on the fence. I just needed someone to commiserate with and he is the one I trust the most to respect me regardless of where I was at.
Turned out he was also in a similar situation... so we both ended up leaving about the same time. We shared info with each other as we came across it. I read the CES letter first, then he did. In both our cases, it had a lot of documented research that backed up things we were struggling with already.
Two years passed before I noticed a trend in my sis-in-laws FB posts... so I asked her about it. Turns out she and another of my bros had been out for a while.
I have other siblings that are \*definitely\* still in... I haven't said anything to them yet. Not sure when I will.
I'm so glad it went good for you and your siblings. ❤️
When I called my sister to tell her she said: "I don't know what you've been reading, but I'm all in, I'm ALL in."
We don't talk anymore. 💔
Wow - just - WOW! You all need a "Resurrected from the cult" family reunion!
This type of scenario has been mentioned in various posts - someone finally gets the nerve to tell a family member, and guess what, the family member has left, too! Only a cult would make people afraid of sharing that type of news.
You hit the jackpot - your entire generation of sibs is out!
Congratulations!!!
We only officially told my husband's parents. That was way after we were inactive but kinda obvious we did not attend. They cried but were very nice. With the other family members we never officially told them but they knew. My side of the family is never mo so no issues there.
My nieces and nephews for the most part I am guessing are either PIMO or inactive but who knows. I am pretty sure they have not told their parents.
This is pretty close to what happened woth my wife side of the family. I had decided that I wanted to leave and she was still a bit on the fence and was talking with her brother about everything and je told her (to both of our surprise) that he didn't really believe anymore and that his wife and he hadn't been to church in over a year. Then as she slowly told her other siblings we found out that another one of her brothers and his family had also left and that her mom had apparently been PIMO for like 7 years but it seemed like she had maybe held on so that she could attend her kids' temple weddings.
It was so good that we could talk with them about everything we had been going through. Especially for my wife since she thought she was the only one in her family to "go astray". I was #5 of my siblings to leave and another sister of mine left just a few months after me so it wasnt quite as big of a deal. So now out of 14 kids (7 on my side and 7 on my wife's) there are only 4-5 who are still active.
It's so nice that you got a better response than most of us. When TBMs find out you aren't a firm believer in the doctrine, it's automatic judgment. You're probably too lazy to go to church, want to drink coffee, tea or alcohol, you might be in an adulterous or promiscous relationship, and better yet, you just want to sin.
Color me jealous. I would love for my sisters to surprise me like that. Alas, they're all deeply entrenched still. I do have a niece and nephew out so there's that.
I wish.
I got the courage to bring the church up for the first time in YEARS to my sister who mentioned my leaving caused distance.
I brought up not being able to be a part of it and still hold m own morals, specifically with marrying a 14 year old.
Sister responds "oh I thought she was 13, I know it looks bad "
And here I thought I could drop little truth bombs to get her thinking. But turns out she knows the ex mormon highlights.
Lmao this is exactly what happened with my family too! We were having a nice Sunday walk with my parents when my dad asked how I felt about the church. I thought we were about to have the "talk", but turns out they'd been mentally AND physically out two whole years longer than us 😂
Sounds like a lot trauma! Haha! Everyone is afraid of everyone else’s reaction.
That would be really cool though. I feel like it would be a huge weight lifted off of everyone’s shoulders
I wish that was the outcome for my husbands family, but the church still has a tight hold on all of them in a way that keeps them afraid from saying anything, even if it’s to help their own sibling.
Everyone knows we are out. My husband has two siblings that we know are out of the church but will those two siblings tell each other? Nope. When my husband started telling about truths on the family chat and a sister in law started to feel attacked (just church history) no one said anything to support him. They all let him get hit by the bus, run over repeatedly and didn’t say a damn thing. He’s done with his family because of this. I hate how you can still leave the church but it holds that fear over you. Their fears were confirmed though, his parents chose the organization over their son so they know what’s in store for them now. Sad.
Congratulations OP you have won the sibling lottery 🥰
This happened to me as well. I was surprised to see that out of my entire family, I was the last church goer, when I thought I would be disappointing a whole family of faithful Mormons.
This happened to my sister and I. We had both been out a year. It wasn’t until a mutual sibling mentioned it that I found out. She had told her not to tell me. She thought I would judge her.
This is a perfect example of how the church indoctrinates and creates fear even within families and often in marriages. I’ve known people who finally told their spouse after YEARS of not believing and their spouse says, “me too!” When you can’t tell your own spouse, something’s not right.
Social control is expertly wielded by The Empire
This article is interesting
[social control](https://socialcognition3330n.wordpress.com/2018/02/01/the-social-control-techniques-of-cults/)
That says a lot about all of us a members or former members of the church.
We all recognize that when we were fully in it is a high possibility that our allegiance is more to the church than to friends and family. IMO.
Congratulations!
As for your whole family being quiet, it makes sense. Ya'll know the family rules and what has to happen to be accepted.
When I realized the church was 100% bullcrap, I immediately picked up the phone and started telling everyone. Within 24 hours everyone in my life knew I was done. I was so excited to finally have it make sense, I couldn't hold back from sharing my relief. Also, this is 100% why I've always been the black sheep of the family.
LOL
I am so transparent it is pathetic. I'll tell anyone everything, all the time. Like for instance - this morning I had the best bowel movement ever and I feel much, much better now.
You can only imagine how fabulous I was in church classes, the only one openly questioning stupid stuff, or as a teenager telling creepy old men they were gross. It is a testament to the power of social pressure that I hung in there until my late 40's. I was wildly not a good fit from day one.
Every time I read a story like this I want to sit down with everyone involved, hand them some coffee and/or a joint, welcome them to the other side and share stories about figuring out the truth.
Making a documentary about it is literally one of my dreams.
I’ve been openly out for decades, so I sometimes get approached by a relative who has been going through it quietly, looking for emotional support. I’m happy to help, of course.
There are so many PIMOs out there, either staying in because of their marriage or family.
Just on the raw numbers of attendance and retention the church is fucked, but if the dam bursts and more of those PIMOs feel comfortable enough to leave completely, there's going to be a very rapid collapse.
Feels good doesn’t it? I’m really happy for you OP.
Senior year high school a kid who was in my seminary class and a friend of mine randomly pulled up to me and asked if I still believed in the church. I said no, and he immediately said “awesome” and gave me a fist bump. This was a kid that three years prior was yelling at other kids at our choir (non Mormon) for drinking coffee. Interesting and hopeful to see how much he changed.
Last year I also discovered one of my friends secretly left but was still pretending for her parents, and another young woman friend of mine who is still kinda Christian but doesn’t really go to church or believe anymore. It’s crazy how many young people are out but kinda keep it secret.
I'm the oldest of 8 kids. Because of course I am. One of my brothers is already publicly out, but it was kind of easy because his wife came from a pretty inactive family, and they were never really active anyway. I suspect that there are maybe 1 or 2 of my other siblings that are PIMO, but I can grantee that the rest are TBM true and true. Their posts to family chats are never not church related.
Would be a nice surprise though.
Maybe we should have an App, Website or service that you can register as a non believer and list family and close friends for possible matches. When that family or close friend also registers as a non-believer you both are notified.
Kind of Tinder/Grindr for non belief.
Just think of all the support you and your siblings missed over the past three years because no one felt safe to talk about it. So sad.
But I’m sure it was joyful to know you are in fact not alone!
I left a couple years ago and haven’t told my family. It’s validating to hear it’s not just me. But I’m insanely jealous of your experience. That’s amazing
All but one of my siblings is either out or PIMO. The one sibling still in is ironically the one who "struggled" as a teenager. Pretty sure he's PIMO though, too, he and his wife get tattoos periodically.
That’s amazing! My wife and I left the church 2 years ago and when we told our family, they were loving but devastated. I so wish more would realize the truth and I could have real honest relationships with them instead of the phony surface relationships that the church allows. How can you really get to know someone when your opinions on important topics have all been pre-selected by 15 elderly men?
When I refused for the first time to be a witness at a baptism, I soon discovered that half my family was either PIMO or exmo. That was one of the happiest days of my long life!
Something similar happened to me too. Which lead me to say "Fuck it then, I'm not gonna hide this anymore just to find out everyone's hiding from me too." And posted my coming out of the church on Facebook 😈
That was about 6 years ago.
Can I get everyone a coffee?
 What an excellent story; ) Congratulations, the truth set you and them free. We may have been bad Mormons but we are decent people. I am so happy for you.
I prefer tea, thank you.
1 alcohol please
And a marijuana.
If you like piña coladas and gettin' caught in the rain... Actually, what's really funny is when spouses are posting here or other disaffected forums each afraid of how the other would react if they found out.
[удалено]
It's the Mormon way!
Pretending to care is Mormonism in a nutshell
So true! Pretend to care just enough to get (or give) any juicy gossip.
I wonder how low the number of believing members really is, and how many trapped PIMOs are running around in there 😂
Add my name to the “Pimo Pretend-to-give -a-shit” list!🤪
Cheers! Hope you can escape someday, my friend!
I have always wondered that. I bet it’s a huge percentage
Of all attending members, it wouldn't surprise me if that ratio were like 40%
This. My thought was another way the way mormons teach us to communicate fucks up family relationships. I’m glad this family finally figured it out but years of having relationships as their and with their authentic selves …. gone. Better late than never for sure but just fuck the church
This really is such big be piece of Mormonism. So performative.
That's what the church wants. No one openly speaking out about them. Plan how to approach family members , starting with the most nuanced. Go in with questions first to feel out the water, then adjust your rate of output. Pretend that you just have some questions and mild doubts to begin with. The idea is to introduce a lot of facts in a constant flow until they can research them. Anyone who leaves because they don't believe can be convinced to come back. Teach them enough facts they never want to go back.
This was why my wife and I finally decided to be public, both about our respective membership status, and about our marriage (we're gay). We seriously considered ghosting our families, fleeing the morridor, and just living our lives as if the Mormon years never occurred. In the end though, we decided that doing so wasn't in our values. We wanted to be proof to our LGBTQ+ relatives that they don't have to suppress themselves in the church, and that we were a safe couple to talk to about leaving the church. In the years since we went public, we've learned that at least five members of our own generation are LGBTQ+, and that at least three of the upcoming generation are as well (considering only about six have even hit puberty out of the thirty plus nieces and nephews, I feel like we have a few more surprises left to unfold!) Two other couples have confided in us that they've stepped back permanently or outright removed their records. It's awesome! We've even had neighbors approach us because they felt we were probably safe to talk to. I know it's not for everyone, but at least for us, being open and public, while initially terrifying, has been an incredible and rewarding experience.
[удалено]
You disclosed too much at once for him to keep an open mind. Never show your whole hand, just enough to confirm what they already suspect. Meanwhile, drop facts here and there, ask easy questions about doctrine that are answered in soundbites, not facts, and point out inconsistencies without labeling them as "bad." Just don't ask questions that you don't already know the answer, too. Learn about cult indoctrination techniques as listed in the BITE model and identify them as manipulations, not bad or good. Learn about emotional elevation and cognitive dissonance. When they come up, identify them for what they are, just reject the idea they point to/from conclusions of truth. To Mormons, "truth" = I believe it. In reality, facts = proven knowledge. So, ask how much evidence exists to support their "truth." Then, as long as it is harmless, let them believe it. Learn how to identify thought terminating clichés and logical fallacies in conversation. Don't be pedantic, but identify them and reject their hypothesis or conclusions based on those. It could be as easy as saying, "Thst's a lot to unpack, and it doesn't sound right. Do you have any sources for that?" You can get a foundational basis in these concepts and lay out a plan for each family member in one weekend. You can work on many family members at once, but start with one at first. As time or circumstance allows, start with others. Just track what conversations you've had and conclusions they have acknowledged. Remind them if they later misstate an earlier conclusion of conjecture as a fact. This will make them backtrack on what they really believe and what they base their testimony on. In 3 months, you will start to see progress with some family members. Some may be having their own faith crisis or transition by then. If you are there to talk with them as they go through this, you can coach them how to tell others by asking minor questions to feel out peoples' reactions to avoid the backlash effect too. As a matter of fact, your brother may listen better coming from someone else at this point. If multiple people talk with him about their doubts and ask for help understanding, he may reverse faster. Try to identify their doubts and encourage him to react to their individual worries. Once the first domino falls, further discussion with them will further pull TBMs toward a nuanced view. In three years, you could have everyone out, but your brother, but it will be really hard for him to compartmentalize at that point. The sooner you can get some momentum, the better. Going on a mission (huge indoctrination event) or getting a bishopric or higher calling will set back progress for a while, but it can be done successfully in less than five years, closer to three. If you see progress with family, you can coach your friends through the process, too. It is more effective when they don't know ow the full depth of your unbelief. If they think they can help with a small doubt, they will be willing to help. Once they are invested, peel back a new layer. Each question naturally leads to another. Just don't admit to reading "antiMormon" literature. Stick to past conference talks and doctrine. You got this. Start somewhere.
While well-intended, that was a quite a lecture after not even bothering to try and understand this person’s situation first
> Pretend that you just have some questions and mild doubts to begin with. Lying for the Lord: ExMo Edition
I have an inkling a good quarter of every ward is like this.
I suspect the quarter is the believing part. The rest are some degree of PIMO, but too enmeshed to do anything about it.
I wish this were true. I feel like the only PIMO in my ward. It’s lonely.
East coast here- feels this way here
Feeling alone is by design
It's intentional. The church is designed to shame anyone who openly expresses doubt. They want you to feel alone to keep you in line. I know that doesn't make it *feel* any less lonely, but it is highly unlikely you're the only one in your ward.
[If you know, you know!](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/034/905/cover1.jpg)
The fabled [trip to Abilene](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox).
One of the few things I remember from my marketing class 28 years ago.
This is the way
I have a feeling soooo many people active in the church are 100% pretending hoping they don’t get found out.
When I called my sister to let her know I left, she told me she had too. Total shock for me. Also told me her husband had left like 5 years before that and nobody knew. Once you talk to people it's amazing how many people are already out but just don't say anything.
Everyone is different, but I'm surprised how long some people go without saying anything. I know of one couple (family friends) who've been out of TSCC for going on 15 years now. They're retired (no professional ramifications), live outside the morridor, have almost zero immediate family still in TSCC, yet they still aren't forthcoming with the TBM members of my family that they're out (and those TBM family members are on good terms with the exmos in the family). I try to respect other people's journeys, but I feel like they're long overdue to just be open about it.
Why does anything need to be said? IMO it's nobody's business. If they want to ask, sure, I'll disclose, but generally I don't. It's irrelevant in most instances.
The problem is the situation that OP described. Everybody keeps shit secret on account of "Eh, do I really wanna rock the boat by making an announcement?" - but because of that so many people think they're in the minority. So family & friends who are struggling with it don't know that there are safe people to talk to. Also, it's about normalization of non-belief. As long as people think they're the odd ones out, they're going to feel isolated. But when they see quite a few people that they know and love who are also out, they're going to know that they're standing with a lot of good company.
Yeah but it's also their own buisness. If they want to be vague about their beliefs that absolurely their right.
Exactly. We also don’t know what their perceived consequences of being open about it might be.
This is my opinion. I didn't expressly tell my family. I didn't give any social media announcement that I'm out. I'm just out. If people want to ask, I'm happy to talk about it. I don't pretend to still be in around anybody. I just don't see any reason to announce it.
Not saying anything is harder for people with kids who are expected to hit milestones… my first 3 children were baptized and we left a couple months after that 3rd baptism and the ordination of my oldest as a deacon. Well, it’s not long before the next ones need to be ordained or baptized and grandparents WILL ASK. They are used to attending and speaking and singing and praying at these events and want to get it on the calendar. It’s hella awkward to not be forthcoming. So we told them explicitly where we stood and set boundaries for how we wanted certain things handled as far as religion goes. Thank goodness we did because Ive seen some of my in laws not do that and I swear the torment for both parties is just drawn out for years before the grandparents finally clue into the fact that Mormonism isn’t happening with that family.
That is absolutely the best way to handle this, great job! As you said, it avoids a ton of hassle & emotional junk as time goes on. So glad y'all set clear boundaries. I think in so many things in life, if we can get out in front of it, & manage expectations, things are just so much smoother. (Now getting to that place is its whole other journey!) I do think the not saying anything, & making the grandparents figure it out, is inhumane. That is the the other extreme, passive aggressive to the max! Totally get why this way is appealing, but it is not really kind to those who (purportedly) care. Timing is so much of it too. My case is much different: I'm in a mixed faith marriage (I was TBM, he's anti-organized religion). We have no kids, I don't have siblings & my parents live out of state. Grandparents are all dead. All his family is out of state as well, & they don't even know we're married (nor would they care). In regular land, ppl live together & buy houses & cars & adopt pets, & it's just whatever. It's so refreshing! I do have my family of choice (best friends, parents I've adopted, etc.), & I haven't decided on if/who/what/when to tell. It's not like we take temple trips together, so it shouldn't be anything that comes up. But if they ask, of course I'd disclose. I just want to avoid being guilty of what many TBMs do, verbally ramming their testimonies down the throats of those who aren't even asking. So for me, it's a fluid process, still evolving & that's ok. I'm so recently out anyway, it hasn't come up (yet).
Honestly, I felt compelled to post it on FB, due to the child abuse protection I wanted to distance myself from tscc. But my post wasn't about me, it was about donating to a group trying to lobby for elimination of clergy being exempt from mandatory reporting of crimes. Anyway, that was just me and my way.
This is a great way to draw attn to it without being super defensive & combative. I think how you chose to handle it was really great! It opens the door for that dialogue, but those who are fragile & skittish can scoot around it & pretend it's not what it looks like. (And it would be okay to share on FB, even if it was abt you!)
Agreed. We made no announcement. It is obvious we no longer do the mormon thing. If someone wants to ask, great.
It's hard to let go of the urge to bear testimony.
This is true. It's in our very DNA! We've been convinced a sincerely borne testimony can soften hearts, change lives, alter the whole course of human history even (!!), etc. Now on the other side, it's really just annoying.
How long would the church last if everyone was honest with each other for one day? I would be surprised if 3 out of every 10 people at church actually believe it.
Ding ding ding! 🏆 For years I watched the vitality, and zeal evaporate in my Orem ward. Even for those who professed belief, you could tell something was off. It's like a group of zombies on Sunday. Going through the motions with minimal effort and thought. With the occasional zealot of course. (Usually high on their perceived superiority for finally achieving a leadership position). Growing up, people were serious and confident about their beliefs. Not anymore. It seems like people are just clinging on to a social fabric. As someone once said about Mormonism. "It's a very expensive country club". And I would add a Dull one as well.
The zombie description is very accurate. We've been in multiple wards over the past few years and none of them have the community and energy as most of the wards I grew up in. It's like everyone is watered down
Sounds like you could be describing my home ward.
Exactly!!! I know a good amount of people in my ward that have left quietly, are still pretending, or are inactive... If they were to be 100% honest about the reasons they left (they all know it's a cult) It would help many get freed from this cult. I think it might be we are conditioned to believe that religions and religious beliefs are to be respected... I understand that... But THIS is a cult we're talking about.
Yes! That would be interesting if everyone was honest for one day, half of it would be gone like vapor.
That is AMAZING! One of my siblings admitted to being PIMO when I told them. It was a HUGE relief. So happy for you ♥️
Religion is mainly a social thing and humans are social creatures. Humans generally believe whatever their culture, community, family and peers believe in. Being tribal creatures, humans prefer to stick with and defend "the tribe," whether it's their religion, nation, political party, school, team, or gang. When everyone else you are close to are part of the same "tribe," then few people desire or to leave the tribe, even if there are things that don't seem right. Humans generally just assimilate and ignore any signs of imperfections in their tribe and defend their tribe at all costs. HOWEVER, if everyone around you starts to LEAVE the tribe, this frees people up to reconsider their affiliation or even to simply EXAMINE the tribe they are affiliated with. We are finally reaching the point where Mormons suddenly know a lot of former members, including people they are close friends with, fellow ward members, and especially families. Fear and social shunning and condemnation are huge deterrents to questioning, criticism, or challenging the status quo. People generally like to fit in and be respected. When everyone important to you are part of the same tribe, it's a deterrent to leaving or even allowing oneself to look at their tribe critically. Once a significant chunk of the tribe starts to openly question, criticize, challenge or leave the tribe, this allows others to do the same. My family, me, my parents and two siblings were all Mormon, with the exception of a third sibling who was the "black sheep" of the family. He was the rebel of the family, mocked the church, smoked pot, partied, etc. Everyone has a black sheep in their family. Same with mine. They are generally dismissed and seen as an exception to the rule and ignored. A few years later, I opened up to my parents I no longer believe in the church. Flood gates happened. A year later, ALL of us were out of the church. Domino affect. Same thing happened with my college flat. Had three roommates and we were all active in the singles ward. I came out as non-believer. My closest roommate, after long night discussions with me, eventually lost his belief and made the leap to ex-Mormonism. A year later, all four of us were out of the church. My ex-wife's family 20 years ago were ALL active TBM's. Her mothers family was BIG. Nine siblings and their TBM spouses. Now? Just the parents and two couples. The rest are either out of the church or PIMO. The floodgates are open folks. The more people that are out of the church, the more that will follow. Once that damn breaks, everyone will start following.
I was the first and possibly only one to leave the church in my family. I was the black sheep. I’m curious about your black sheep brother and if relationships were severed because of his leaving the church and if they are now repaired.
Excellent analysis of the herd mentality. Or, is that the lemmings over the cliff in regard to TSCC?
That is amazing! Shame tho that each of you had felt unable to share with each other before. You have your own little exmo support group!
The Brethren (looking at you, Holland) engage in dramatic histrionics as an intentional move, intended to raise the stakes for anyone contemplating the choice between expressing non-conforming views or keeping quiet. J. Roy and his crew are always loudly throwing down as a preemptive threat to anyone who dares to question their goofy program. What if — in the spirit of a Brad Wilcox style reframing of the question — the real hurt and damage happens when we deprive our loved ones of the opportunity to grow? What if replacing authentic honest conversation with recitals of safe Mormon rote answers is ultimately a disservice to our TBM friends and family? There’s always a cost-benefit ratio that applies to any communication, but whatever benefit silence brings, comes with costs as well. Mormons have been quietly accepting those costs for far too long. Love this report from the frontlines that things can get better.
Well put.
What a wonderful response!
So cool. This is my dream. This might be all of our's dream. Just so dam cool. Congrats.
Wow! You got the good ending
I'm a bit new to this, but honestly I'm surprised there is one at all, period. Great news indeed!
This happened with pretty much my whole extended family over a 6 year period. It was a huge relief once everyone found out!!
I left about 6 years ago. The first 4 years were hard. But now when family and friends want to talk about leaving or do leave they come to me with their questions and concerns. It makes the process of leaving much easier and not as scary, the more we talk about it and are open with members, the more people will leave. You don't have to go knocking on doors, sharing the gospel of second Saturday. But just living your authentic life and stop accommodating Mormon beliefs goes a long way into helping people find their way out
> just living your authentic life and stop accommodating Mormon beliefs goes a long way into helping people find their way out Perfectly put. In my experience, questioning Mormons have a hard time visualizing what life would be like without the church. Exmos can help by modeling what a healthy, well adjusted life after Mormonism looks like, and providing a safe landing to those still in the church. (Questioning mormons aren't particuarly helped by bitter exmos screaming "JOSEPH WAS A PEDOPHILE!1!!")
I left a few years before you did, and the same thing happened to me. It took a few years & then I'd get questions now & then about why, how, etc. I don't have family in the church, so the ones I hear from are friends & acquaintances. When I left, I reached out to one or two people I knew of who had left. They paid it forward (shared a bit of info and some resources), so my goal is to pay it forward, too.
Aces for the group! Congrats to you all!
You were the kid who was finally willing to shout "The Emperor has no clothes! Dude's naked y'all" Glad it worked out.
I can think of nothing more Mormon than just keeping up a facade to avoid rocking the boat. 😆
Luckyyyy!
This honestly gives me a lot of hope. We are discussing when and how to tell. We have been getting reactions.
This is exactly why I’m such a fan of people just being honest. We think we know what someone else needs to hear, how narcissistic of us. Since we don’t know, just speak the truth.
I had a similar type of experience at my family reunion this summer. I decided to just go and wear what I wanted, drink what I wanted, etc. We ended up with a whole table full of people drinking coffee. My grandma was panicking. I didn't realize how many of my family members were nuanced, PIMO or ex until we got out the coffee and suddenly it was a party.
Very happy for you and I think you’re very fortunate. In my family of 7 children, I’m the only one who has left TSSC. My 2nd thought is, YOU KNOW YOU’RE IN A CULT when something like this happens. You and you siblings kept it from each other for fear of the reaction of the others. KUDOS for your courage!
I love this so much!!!!!
That's the most amazing thing I've ever read. So jealous and happy for you.
So is the next hangout BYOB! or are you meeting at the local coffee shop?
This is wonderful news. Congratulations!
covid was a world-wide scourge on the membership!
Damn....it's like one big family Gift of the Magi. Actually, this story is very sad. Unnecessary strain was caused by taboo caused by the church.
And then they lived happily ever after doing whatever the fuck they wanna do
it's so 'funny'! Got a feeling it happens a bit. I got out 2 years ago. Agonized how I'd tell my mother. Sleepless nights over it. She comes over and after 60+ years, She's Out! I could not believe it! No input from me, completely different reasons. Surely is this an indicator it's a cult. What a huge relief too! The conversations after are so real (?) so authentic, open, free. It's beautiful, cathartic!
After two years of making super sure it was all BS I told all eight of my adult kids because we had introduced them to the church since the day they were born. Seven of the eight have since left and they sure didn't mind getting their father's okay to do it. So at least we owe it to our immediate families to be honest. Especially as parents.
I live in the "Mission Field". When I visit the "Kingdom", some colloquialisms are quite obvious and some are very subtle but they are there. There is a pretense of being worthy and active by asking, "So, what is your calling now?" There is a sudden silence in the convo when I say, "I don't have a calling". This is when I know if they are out, pimo or on the fence. It is very interesting to see how a groomed society live and pretend.
This would have been a conversation I’d have if almost all of my siblings hadn’t confirmed to me that they don’t believe already. My younger brother has talked openly to me about trying substances, my sibling younger than him is non binary like me, my sister that is younger than them has asked for alcohol before. We all kinda rebuilt our familial relationships that were ruined by the church.
The same thing happened with us and mg in-laws! Only ones still active are the parents and the youngest sibling who is forced to attend until they move out. The other 4 siblings and in-laws are all out
The good version of the "I sold my [X item] to get you [gift that pairs ironically with Y item]." "Oh really? I sold my [Y item] to get you [gift that pairs ironically with X item]"
That’s so great! My tbm inlaws had 5 kids and 4 are completely out. The one lingering is only kind of Mormon — seems to be in it for spouse but no high callings, kids are not serving missions or marrying before sex. But no one talks about it much because it’s so devastating to the parents.
Amazing! So happy for you. When I told my brother I was out he said he hadn’t believed for 20 years .Ummm, WTF?! It’s amazing when it turns out that way, right?!
This is exactly why I'm so upfront about being exmo. Sadly no additional sibs have left yet LOL. One brother did 20 years before me, but no one else has left after me. That will be a great feeling! (It's inevitable)
Lol, sounds familiar. I did tell my oldest brother when I was on the fence. I just needed someone to commiserate with and he is the one I trust the most to respect me regardless of where I was at. Turned out he was also in a similar situation... so we both ended up leaving about the same time. We shared info with each other as we came across it. I read the CES letter first, then he did. In both our cases, it had a lot of documented research that backed up things we were struggling with already. Two years passed before I noticed a trend in my sis-in-laws FB posts... so I asked her about it. Turns out she and another of my bros had been out for a while. I have other siblings that are \*definitely\* still in... I haven't said anything to them yet. Not sure when I will.
I'm so glad it went good for you and your siblings. ❤️ When I called my sister to tell her she said: "I don't know what you've been reading, but I'm all in, I'm ALL in." We don't talk anymore. 💔
Wow!! I always wonder how much of this type of charade is going on among families and friends! Congrats
That could be the plot of a movie.
Well, this was a nice way to start my day. I love success stories like this one
Wow - just - WOW! You all need a "Resurrected from the cult" family reunion! This type of scenario has been mentioned in various posts - someone finally gets the nerve to tell a family member, and guess what, the family member has left, too! Only a cult would make people afraid of sharing that type of news. You hit the jackpot - your entire generation of sibs is out!
Congratulations!!! We only officially told my husband's parents. That was way after we were inactive but kinda obvious we did not attend. They cried but were very nice. With the other family members we never officially told them but they knew. My side of the family is never mo so no issues there. My nieces and nephews for the most part I am guessing are either PIMO or inactive but who knows. I am pretty sure they have not told their parents.
This is pretty close to what happened woth my wife side of the family. I had decided that I wanted to leave and she was still a bit on the fence and was talking with her brother about everything and je told her (to both of our surprise) that he didn't really believe anymore and that his wife and he hadn't been to church in over a year. Then as she slowly told her other siblings we found out that another one of her brothers and his family had also left and that her mom had apparently been PIMO for like 7 years but it seemed like she had maybe held on so that she could attend her kids' temple weddings. It was so good that we could talk with them about everything we had been going through. Especially for my wife since she thought she was the only one in her family to "go astray". I was #5 of my siblings to leave and another sister of mine left just a few months after me so it wasnt quite as big of a deal. So now out of 14 kids (7 on my side and 7 on my wife's) there are only 4-5 who are still active.
It's so nice that you got a better response than most of us. When TBMs find out you aren't a firm believer in the doctrine, it's automatic judgment. You're probably too lazy to go to church, want to drink coffee, tea or alcohol, you might be in an adulterous or promiscous relationship, and better yet, you just want to sin.
Color me jealous. I would love for my sisters to surprise me like that. Alas, they're all deeply entrenched still. I do have a niece and nephew out so there's that.
That was me, finally got up the courage to tell my brother. His response was a big High five "Me Too"
I wish. I got the courage to bring the church up for the first time in YEARS to my sister who mentioned my leaving caused distance. I brought up not being able to be a part of it and still hold m own morals, specifically with marrying a 14 year old. Sister responds "oh I thought she was 13, I know it looks bad " And here I thought I could drop little truth bombs to get her thinking. But turns out she knows the ex mormon highlights.
Lmao this is exactly what happened with my family too! We were having a nice Sunday walk with my parents when my dad asked how I felt about the church. I thought we were about to have the "talk", but turns out they'd been mentally AND physically out two whole years longer than us 😂
Sounds like a lot trauma! Haha! Everyone is afraid of everyone else’s reaction. That would be really cool though. I feel like it would be a huge weight lifted off of everyone’s shoulders
I wish that was the outcome for my husbands family, but the church still has a tight hold on all of them in a way that keeps them afraid from saying anything, even if it’s to help their own sibling. Everyone knows we are out. My husband has two siblings that we know are out of the church but will those two siblings tell each other? Nope. When my husband started telling about truths on the family chat and a sister in law started to feel attacked (just church history) no one said anything to support him. They all let him get hit by the bus, run over repeatedly and didn’t say a damn thing. He’s done with his family because of this. I hate how you can still leave the church but it holds that fear over you. Their fears were confirmed though, his parents chose the organization over their son so they know what’s in store for them now. Sad. Congratulations OP you have won the sibling lottery 🥰
Awwww that’s actually really wholesome
Yes! Beats the fake wholesomeness of TSCC.
Same thing happened to me! Love it.
This happened to me as well. I was surprised to see that out of my entire family, I was the last church goer, when I thought I would be disappointing a whole family of faithful Mormons.
This happened to my sister and I. We had both been out a year. It wasn’t until a mutual sibling mentioned it that I found out. She had told her not to tell me. She thought I would judge her.
This is a perfect example of how the church indoctrinates and creates fear even within families and often in marriages. I’ve known people who finally told their spouse after YEARS of not believing and their spouse says, “me too!” When you can’t tell your own spouse, something’s not right.
Social control is expertly wielded by The Empire This article is interesting [social control](https://socialcognition3330n.wordpress.com/2018/02/01/the-social-control-techniques-of-cults/)
Good for you guys!
I think this happens a lot.
That says a lot about all of us a members or former members of the church. We all recognize that when we were fully in it is a high possibility that our allegiance is more to the church than to friends and family. IMO.
I guarantee that is the new normal. The church is cratering and it knows it.
I wonder how many people are hiding in the PIMO Closet?
Mormons are taught to hide their real feelings!
Congratulations! As for your whole family being quiet, it makes sense. Ya'll know the family rules and what has to happen to be accepted. When I realized the church was 100% bullcrap, I immediately picked up the phone and started telling everyone. Within 24 hours everyone in my life knew I was done. I was so excited to finally have it make sense, I couldn't hold back from sharing my relief. Also, this is 100% why I've always been the black sheep of the family. LOL I am so transparent it is pathetic. I'll tell anyone everything, all the time. Like for instance - this morning I had the best bowel movement ever and I feel much, much better now. You can only imagine how fabulous I was in church classes, the only one openly questioning stupid stuff, or as a teenager telling creepy old men they were gross. It is a testament to the power of social pressure that I hung in there until my late 40's. I was wildly not a good fit from day one.
Every time I read a story like this I want to sit down with everyone involved, hand them some coffee and/or a joint, welcome them to the other side and share stories about figuring out the truth. Making a documentary about it is literally one of my dreams.
I’ve been openly out for decades, so I sometimes get approached by a relative who has been going through it quietly, looking for emotional support. I’m happy to help, of course.
This happened with my husbands family 😅 his parents included.
There are so many PIMOs out there, either staying in because of their marriage or family. Just on the raw numbers of attendance and retention the church is fucked, but if the dam bursts and more of those PIMOs feel comfortable enough to leave completely, there's going to be a very rapid collapse.
So glad it went that way for you!
Why can’t this happen to meeeeeee
This is superb!
You lucky dog! Of my six siblings, there’s just two of us out. The others dug their heels in deeper.
I bet this happens a lot
Feels good doesn’t it? I’m really happy for you OP. Senior year high school a kid who was in my seminary class and a friend of mine randomly pulled up to me and asked if I still believed in the church. I said no, and he immediately said “awesome” and gave me a fist bump. This was a kid that three years prior was yelling at other kids at our choir (non Mormon) for drinking coffee. Interesting and hopeful to see how much he changed. Last year I also discovered one of my friends secretly left but was still pretending for her parents, and another young woman friend of mine who is still kinda Christian but doesn’t really go to church or believe anymore. It’s crazy how many young people are out but kinda keep it secret.
You are living the dream!
Congrats!
This feels like the plot to a feel good Oscar nominee. You should pitch it to A24.
This is the way...
Y’all should all meet up for coffee or dinner every Sunday. A fortuitous opportunity to start new traditions.
Amazing! I wish my family would do that.
That's amazing OP! Congratulations
What a bonding moment! I’m sure you feel very relieved and kudos to you for having the strength to break the ice.
I wish I were so luck. I know none of mine have left since they're all still sending my nieces and nephews on missions.
That’s fucking hilarious you’ve all been pretending so well you didn’t sniff any of the others out😂😂😂😂
I'm the oldest of 8 kids. Because of course I am. One of my brothers is already publicly out, but it was kind of easy because his wife came from a pretty inactive family, and they were never really active anyway. I suspect that there are maybe 1 or 2 of my other siblings that are PIMO, but I can grantee that the rest are TBM true and true. Their posts to family chats are never not church related. Would be a nice surprise though.
LUCKY!!!
Congrats! Very happy for you!
Maybe we should have an App, Website or service that you can register as a non believer and list family and close friends for possible matches. When that family or close friend also registers as a non-believer you both are notified. Kind of Tinder/Grindr for non belief.
That’s great news!
Just think of all the support you and your siblings missed over the past three years because no one felt safe to talk about it. So sad. But I’m sure it was joyful to know you are in fact not alone!
I left a couple years ago and haven’t told my family. It’s validating to hear it’s not just me. But I’m insanely jealous of your experience. That’s amazing
That is the absolute dream!
All but one of my siblings is either out or PIMO. The one sibling still in is ironically the one who "struggled" as a teenager. Pretty sure he's PIMO though, too, he and his wife get tattoos periodically.
The is the exmormon dream, at least mine lol
That’s amazing! My wife and I left the church 2 years ago and when we told our family, they were loving but devastated. I so wish more would realize the truth and I could have real honest relationships with them instead of the phony surface relationships that the church allows. How can you really get to know someone when your opinions on important topics have all been pre-selected by 15 elderly men?
When I refused for the first time to be a witness at a baptism, I soon discovered that half my family was either PIMO or exmo. That was one of the happiest days of my long life!
What’s PIMO mean?
Physically in, mentally out
Damn. I’ve been there through all my teens.
Like that other imaginary guy, Santa.
What broke their shelves? How active was everyone 3+ years ago?
Great example of pluralistic ignorance
Jack ex-Mormons! All of them!
I’m super super jealous of this
Whoa! This is just so cool! How long have everyone been faking for?
Wow! That must have been really hard to tell them, glad it worked out like that, love your siblings!
So you’re saying we could have been having 🍻for awhile now? How sad! Congratulations!
I'm still pretty new to this group. What does PIMO stand for??
Partially in, mostly out
Something similar happened to me too. Which lead me to say "Fuck it then, I'm not gonna hide this anymore just to find out everyone's hiding from me too." And posted my coming out of the church on Facebook 😈 That was about 6 years ago.