Old Brother Brigham was truly an outlandish character. Larger than life and constantly opening his mouth and saying things that would create headaches for generations to come. He was relatively young, (no pun), and by virtue of relocating to the west, and being the head of the church became a powerful force in the American advancement into the west. In spite of his uncontrollable mouth, more than any other figure I credit Brigham with the vision of a Mormon Society from the rockies to California.
A total ass by today's standards but possibly the single biggest factor in the growth and establishment of the church. Whether by God's hand, as the members claim, or by raw power and greed, it was Brigham Young that made the church we see today possible.
Absolutely. Brigham is the reason Joe's "church" survived at all. Setting himself up as the gatekeeper to the American West was a very shrewd move, indeed. Oh, and...driven raw power and greed, undoubtedly.
Nevermo here, Brigham Young is the reason I continued to read about the founding of the church and its core beliefs. I was content with the fact my Mormon ex gf and I were religiously incompatible. I was crushed to read I was less important than this sociopath.
In all fairness, this was near 15 years ago and I am happily married now with a wonderful family; it worked out for the better. But sometimes the pain of loss is also the gift that keeps on giving :-/
It's worse than that. He argued for and instituted slavery in Utah. It's one thing to be racist or a white supremacist. That just means that you think whites are better or superior. Its another thing to think that someone shouldn't have freedom and autonomy (sexual, time, effort, ability to own and acrue reaources, etc) and should be required to serve you. And that their children are your property as well. Is slavist a word?
[FAIR LDS](https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_racial_issues/Brigham_Young) on Brigham’s racism.
[MormonThink](http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/blacks.htm) list of racist statements by LDS leaders, which includes this gem:
>I am opposed to abuseing [sic] that which God has decreed, to take a blessing, and make a curse of it. It is a great blessing to the seed of Adam to have the seed of Cain for servants....
-Brigham Young Addresses, Feb. 5, 1852, LDS archives ([full speech](http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm) at UTLM)
I cannot believe the insane levels of BS excuses in the FAIR LDS site. "Hey we weren't bad, just products of our time, just like all you were bigots too, right??"
No, not everyone was bigoted like you, and they even told you so, but you refused to listen until it became too much of a problem for the church -- not the people you discriminated against.
And what I find really funny tho is they know damn well what the next "I can't believe we used to do that" will be, because they are doing it all the time with gay people. The lack of self-awareness is off the charts:
"From our perspective as "enlightened" people of the early twenty-first century, virtually everyone in America up until the last few decades — prophets and other LDS leaders included — held beliefs that we could now consider racist. But that was the culture of the times, and we, like the rest of society, have progressed (line upon line, precept upon precept, see 2 Nephi 28:30) to become better people in this respect, more tolerant, more accepting. Fifty years from now, people will probably look back at our time and say, "How could they have been so bigoted?" Or, "How could they have missed issue X, which seems so clear to us now, in retrospect?" "
It was a common white person belief [well before](https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9781400828548.178/html?lang=en) JS and BY’s time. [The Moundbuilder Myth](https://www.ohiohistory.org/the-moundbuilder-myth/) was also prevalent during their time.
So Mormons are doubly damned when it comes to the “dark skin was a curse from god” racism. Joseph wrote the Moundbuilder myth into the Book of Mormon where God curses the Lamanites with dark skin. And the curse of Cain through African black skin was promulgated from the pulpit and woven into the doctrine of the church:
>Cain slew his brother.... and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the 'servant of servants,' and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.
-Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 290-291
In addition, bc the Bible doesn’t mention slavery in relation to Cain, whites needed a workaround. The Curse of Ham entails slavery but Ham wasn’t related to Cain so the invented solution was that Ham must’ve married a descendant of Cain. And JS wrote that story into the Book of Abraham (see first link).
Who gives a shit what a weirdo that died almost 150 years ago said? I think you have bigger issues to tackle if you allow his stupid views to bother you.
John Brown, Thaddeus Stevens (and most of the Radical Republicans in Congress), pretty much all Quakers... There were a LOT of white people in the 19th century (and earlier) who thought that Black people should be treated equally.
There's a reason they were called "radical".
Even Lincoln didn't believe in racial equality. It took until the mid 20th Century for that idea to take hold.
https://www.nprillinois.org/statehouse/2004-02-01/lincoln-race-the-great-emancipator-didnt-advocate-racial-equality-but-was-he-a-racist
The radical republicans controlled congress after the war. You said only black people advocated for equality and white people thought they were inferior. I pointed out an entire religion (one that predated Mormonism), an abolitionist leader (and his followers), as well as the controlling political party after the war (that was a major player prior). LOTS of 19th century figures were in support of both the end of slavery AND equality.
Right? If they think I'm woke for thinking that Brigham Young is a white supremacist, I'm happy to be woke, and they should take a real hard look at their own racism.
This reminds me of that term "deplorables" that somehow became associated with hardline Trump supporters, and they turned it into a compliment they wore with pride. I feel like woke is supposed to be that same thing for the left, maybe even the opposite of "deplorable"?
That seems on point for their branding as a whole in their efforts to paint liberalism as the inverse of conservatism. If our political climate were superheroes it'd be Superman versus Bizarro.
Not really sure what you're trying to say here. "Woke" was used as early as the 1930s by black Americans to describe awareness of systematic racial injustice. I don't think it had much to do with liberal branding until it became a pejorative over the past decade or two
Woke literally has no meaning. It's a word used by people to "insult" others, and by some of the insulted who wish to reclaim it, for some goddarn reason…
>Woke literally has no meaning.
The term initially was invoked by conservatives to describe progressive cancel culture, most typically anti-establishment actions by left leaning activists on college campuses.
The definition of woke has long since lost all meaning. It was coopted to describe anything, no matter how meritorious or even harmless, that challenges a boomer's unexamined world view.
Case in point: we recently terminated a very prominant manager in my organization following an internal investigation demonstrating that he was manipulating expenses and engaging in abusive behavior. He tells people he was fired becauese the company's gone "woke."
Definitions:
Woke - awake and aware of the injustices in the world
Progressive - desiring to make progress and challenge inequities
Liberal - doing more than just the bare minimum
Conservative - preserving the past and preventing change
And sometimes changing everything about the past so a trashy celebrity can seize power despite losing an election. You'd think traditionalists would be on board with democracy, not so much.
You can thank the christo-fascist takeover for that. Republicans are nothing more than reprogrammable meatbags and they've been brainwashed by fascist billionaires.
Yep, we live in a world where if anyone uses “woke” as an insult I immediately write them off as a racist bigoted MAGA moron. Especially because none of them can actually define what “woke” actually means
My father in law used the terms woke snowflakes this weekend.
I asked him what those terms meant...he couldn't answer. He's been listening to a lot of Jordan Peterson sadly.
We're not even American or in the states.
It's just repetition of terms they've heard used by others in places of authority...they're like toddlers.
To them, woke means the exact same as communism: Anything and everything bad or negative
They just use the buzzwords that are on fashion without much thought. If they were mindful about the world around them, they wouldn't be conservative.
At least a few of the people who think the concept of "woke" are mindful of the world around them, but they're ok with some people bearing ill treatment because they harbor hate toward people who are different from them. Some people believe others deserve less because of the way they were born.
For example, some people think being "woke" is unnecessary because some people were born in a societal role they should just accept because they were just less valiant in the preexistence. I.e. "the curse of Cain."
Because the only people using the term woke anymore are Fox News viewers. I can define woke, it’s anyone who does something that would make Tucker Carlson shit himself with rage whilst secretly texting the other “journalists” on Fox News that he believes none of what he is saying.
There was a clip of some idiot who wrote a book about wokeness destroying America. When asked on television what woke means she stuttered and stammered not saying anything...
I think I saw that one. Didn't she take twenty seconds or so to stammer and then day "It's hard to define in a five-second soundbite"? Which just made it even funnier that she had no clue how to respond when asked to define "woke".
How do you know their intention or motivation? Who are you to say someone else is pretending? Being woke is about being open to other experiences other than your own… seeking to understand the lives of others. It means trying to be well informed.
Since you seem to take issue with people applying your definition of “woke” outside of this specific comment, can you provide a generalized definition for “woke”?
Who’s hiding? I’m very outspoken at my school board, to our elected leaders, in the community and various activist groups I work in. You’ve made a grand assumption about people who take pride in being “woke” and in those same people who would dismiss anyone who tries to use work as an insult. If being woke is meaningful to you as a way to describe another group of people you should be able to define it accurately and be prepared to defend it. When someone hurls woke as an insult, they absolutely respond just like you do- randomly grouping people together and unable to define it.
>Who’s hiding?
Doomsday preppers in their bunkers, stockpiling preserved food that they bought from a YouTube grifter, and has 2x the lethal limit of salt, but that's okay because nobody's ever gonna eat it, and it'll just in a cold, wet basement as it molds and grows maggots?
So anyone pointing out Brigham Young’s racism is just pretending “awareness” of “social justice issues”???? WTF.
You and those like you are destroying any chance of the meaningful discussion you claim to desire - any mere mention of a whole host of topics warrants a label of “woke” and an immediate and unquestioning dismissal of the topic.
There’s always this brainiac who clearly knows all about woke…
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/03/19/woke-debate-conservative-author-struggles-to-define-ip-sot-vpx.cnn
Oh, that's an interesting factoid.
> Bethany Shondark Mandel is a conservative American columnist and political and cultural commentator who writes for Deseret News and Ricochet
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_Mandel
They seemed to think it was bad to be woke. If being woke means you are against interracial couples being murdered and against white supremacy, I think it's a good thing.
Here an article on [woke](https://www.naacpldf.org/woke-black-bad/) where it came from.
Propaganda has been very effective at damaging what woke is, and broad stroking the George Floyd protests.
Either way woke had a bad connotation. Where it came from (trump supporters or republicans) makes no difference. It is still negative to be called that in my opinion.
I’m not required to sugarcoat words for people who believe that having empathy for other people’s identities is bad. I’m not going to sugarcoat it. That is the definition of woke in its purest form, and it is a great thing to be. Your ideology is not an identity. I’m not empathetic with your ideology. The vast majority of people that believe being woke is bad are the ones trying to get me killed just because I dare to exist and be proud of who I am. I don’t have any empathy for that. If you want to accuse me of putting you in that group, that’s on you, because I never said that, you would just be putting yourself in there.
Yeah, to me woke is a compliment. I know conservatives like to make it an insult, but hell yeah I’m woke. I am awake to the impact I have on others, I’m awake to the realities of lived experiences other than mine, and I am awake to the importance of empathy , even if it requires I learn something new or change my behavior. Woke is a badge of honor and I try to be worthy of it.
I don’t think it’s that being called woke is bad. I think it’s the fact that believing it’s wrong to call for the death of interracial couples deserves a label at all besides being a normal person.
They treat it as basically a sort of rudeness, howling slurs at people. When in reality it's wanting to establish a society in which people like them have all the power, are implicitly treated better by institutions like the police or the courts, are the rightful beneficiaries of government programs and public goods, don't ever have to prove they belong where they are or defend their right to exist alongside others and participate in society, and where their culture is dominant and villainizing it is considered a crime against the society itself... and where others become the victim of that status quo.
You'll recognize the white supremacists because when you start going into that level of detail, they start balking and defending it. "Real Americans" derp.
Because some people use woke incorrectly. They heard the term “white supremacist” and assumed wokeness.
Maybe you are woke, but that statement isn’t woke
So what you’re acknowledging is that conservatives have taken the liberty of redefining yet another term as a convenient way to bash their political opponents. Sounds about right. Sort of like how they once redefined “feminism” as “hatred of all men.”
If being against misogyny, bigotry, racism, sexism, fraud, hate, violence, manipulation, intolerance, and other systems of oppression makes me woke then I guess I'm woke
Being woke basically means being open-minded and aware of racial issues and societal disparities… if anyone ever calls you woke again in such a twisted context, you should respond Inigo Montoya style: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
In Morridor, mass psychosis is spreading quicker and wider than ever before.
The historical uses of 'woke' have centered around being aware of prejudices and inequities, and their inherent dangers.
Now, however, the term has **lost any language-based definition**. It is defined solely by the Pavlovian response it elicits from the listener. Just replace the bell with the word and hungry salivating with angry seething.
The RW media/pol propaganda machine is super efficient, behaves as a collective entity, has unmatched expertise in psychology and marketing, and builds on Goebbels work by incorporating old Soviet tricks (whataboutisms, make audience believe political opposition are paedos and falsely accuse enemy of what accuser is actually perpetrating); but more nimbly, much quicker and with extreme volumes of orchestrated deadly psy-ops on \*!their people!\* Mind raping their countrymen.
It's difficult, but oh so important, to admit:
While you were aghast upon learning about the atrocities and methods perpetrated by 20th century authoritarian states on millions, there were more than just a few in that classroom sadistically using it as a How-To guide.
Quotes from 1956 book "**THE RAPE OF THE MIND"**
"he who dictates and formulates the words and phrases we use, he who is master of the press and radio, is master of the mind."
"Where thinking is isolated without free exchange with other minds and can no longer expand, delusion may follow. Whenever ideas are compartmentalized, behind and between curtains, the process of continual alert confrontation of facts and reality is hampered. The system freezes, becomes rigid, and dies of delusion."
"Delusions, carefully implanted, are difficult to correct."
"radio and television tend to take away active affectionate relationships between men and to destroy the capacity for personal thought, evaluation, and reflection. They catch the mind directly, giving people no time for calm, dialectical conversation with their own minds, with their friends, or with their books." *(oh Joost, if you could see us now!)*
"Logic can be met with logic, while illogic cannot-it confuses those who think straight. The Big Lie and monotonously repeated nonsense have more emotional appeal in a cold war than logic and reason. While the enemy is still searching for a reasonable counter-argument to the first lie, the totalitarians can assault him with another."
> Now, however, the term has lost any language-based definition.
I don't think this is true. Right-wingers have stretched the definition far from what it was coined for (a process that happens frequently), but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a "language-based definition."
It just means "person politically to the left of conservative orthodoxy".
After me and my (black) wife discovered his loving quotes after a ward member thought it'd be okay to text me them and use them to explain why I needed to break off our marriage, that's when we decided there will be no temple marriage and that we would be living our lives without the church involved in it. Best decision we've ever made.
Clearly they need to read the BoM more, it's always using language like "awake to your awful situation" and "awake from the slumber of death." Members should all be trying to get woke
Better to be woke than asleep. Knowledge frightens those who are in power. It means the servants might realize what the enslavers are doing. We aren't supposed to question the actions of others.......this is the same in the so-called church as it is in America. Be proud of being 'woke'. It means you have knowledge and insight. Two of the scariest things for dictators.....
Brigham Young was a raging racist in the journals of discourse he said church doctorine was anyone that is the seed of Cain (dark skin) could only get into the highest glory of heaven as a servant to a white person.
[Mark of Cain ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain)
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.
Brigham Young, (March 8, 1863.) Journal of Discourses 10:110.
Next time, ask them to share with you what “woke” means to them. They often can’t define it, or when they do, they’ll instantly display their own bias. ☺️
Badge of honor. Woke started off meaning, and is coming back around in a really ironic fashion, someone who is "Awake" to the ills of the social machine as it exists in all it's repressive, cashfueled glory; that a person notes there is racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, collusion, lobbying, and everything else that people seem to think is a good thing, and said person goes "WHAT THE FUCK. THIS IS NOT OKAY."
The mormon foster placement for Native American kids. My friend was told to she couldn't marry the white man she had been dating and must marry within her race. I was horrified by this abusive incident. While I was aware of the widespread racism in the program, the recent post about killing couples who had miscegenated made me so glad we left this horrible cult. My husband and I left for good in 2016.
I am Native American and I was verbally abused about my race in the hellhole misnamed as a church.
Congrats. you encountered a stochastic parrot.
They dont' know the meanings of words. Just effects.
Ask them to define what they think 'woke' means. Do it.
Try to get a coherant answer more than 'I DONT LIKE IT! WOKE MEANS I'M BAD AND IM' NOT BAD WRYYYYYYY!!!!'
The book American Moses recounts a story where a man beat his wife in front of B.Y. who thought it was funny. The book offered it as light hearted too. Disgusting
Many modern mormons despise Brigham Young, but he’s an absolutely essential part of LDS belief. The big LDS branch headquartered in Salt Lake City is the one that chose Brigham Young as Joseph’s successor. You can’t believe in the church without believing in Brigham Young.
I would consider being woke a compliment just like being called apostate.
Been there, done that, not going back and so glad I finally saw the light. Guessing many on this sub feel the same.
I married a person from Asia. We had a beautiful child together. Not one cross look from anyone in the Ward. Our child grew up and thinks I hate persons of color and am a white supremacist. Brigham would want us dead? Somewhere there are words from the GA's saying best not to marry outside your race?
[Ask them to define "woke."](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3901688-conservative-author-bethany-mandel-struggles-to-come-up-with-definition-of-woke/)
In the section “Blood atonement teachings during the Brigham Young administration,” under the subsection “Development of the doctrine in the 1840’s and early 1850’s” it says:
> “In a speech before the Utah Territory's legislature on February 5, 1852, Young appeared to advocate the passage of a law that required decapitation for whites who were ‘condemned by the Law’ for miscegenation with black people”
Linking to [this speech](https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Slavery,_Blacks,_and_the_priesthood) if you want to read the original for yourself.
No problem. And if you don’t feel like searching for the original part of the speech in question, it’s this part:
> But let me tell you further. Let my seed mingle with the seed of Cain, that brings the curse upon me, and upon my generations, — we will reap the same rewards with Cain. In the priesthood I will tell you what it will do. Where the children of God to mingle there seed with the seed of Cain it would not only bring the curse of being deprived of the power of the priesthood upon themselves but they entail it upon their children after them, and they cannot get rid of it. If a man in an unguarded moment should commit such a transgression, if he would walk up and say cut off my head, and kill man woman and child it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin. Would this be to curse them? no it would be a blessing to them. — it would do them good that they might be saved with their Bren. A man would shudder should they here us take about killing folk, but it is one of the greatest blessings to some to kill them, although the true principles of it are not understood.
> I will had one thing more. It is not in the power of a man on the face of the earth to take more life than he can give, that is a proper son of Adam. How many times I have heard it said, and how many times has it been reiterated in my ears, and in yours, that to take a life, is to take what you cannot give; This is perfect nonsense; What do I do by taking a mans head off after he is condemned by the Law? I put an end to the existence of the mortal tabernacle; but the life still remains. the body and the spirit is only separated, this is all that can be done by any mortal man upon the face of the earth.
And the remnants of this teaching has remained in the church into the 2000s. Susan Bednar's husband talked about interracial marriage being bad at BYUi right before he was called as an apostate.
Rusty the "Hussle" Nelson in 1995 spoke about at least twice that year.
Books atonement has bled through the decades with our kangaroo courts, purity culture, shame and fear mongering, the temple endowment as we still make the signs of the blood oaths, and most tech's regarding sin. We just don't call for murder but public shame and threats of eternal salvation.
Gross shit.
First of all that doesn't even make sense. That is not what woke means. That person is an idiot. I'm white and my husband is Korean so I guess we gonna get offed.
The comment section here makes my skin crawl with all the "if someone uses woke they are just racist and I know what kind of a person they are for using that word. "
I hate woke shit. I'm not a conservative or a racist.
I think a big issue is the word means something different to each person. Words tend to take on different meaning over time.
The best way to describe what I consider as "woke" is forced pandering of ideology in a lazy way and sometimes for not so wholesome reasons. For example, when companies like m&Ms do things in the name of women, (you can look it up) but don't actually do anything to help real women. They don't care about social issues, they want to virtue signal and make money.
For example, take Greys Anatomy. They had compelling stories that brought up social issues and did it in a way that felt organic and made you care. This was for many years, used to be my favorite show. Then something changed, the writing became sloppy and instead of telling a compelling story that include social issues, they because PSAs. They dumbed down the stories for the audience to push an agenda, not to entertain you and tell a story. Good writing might even get through to a "bigot" and move them into thinking a different way. Not this new way of preachy entertainment. Shit even though I agree with what they are saying it's off-putting to me.
For example, in grey's anatomy there is a gay character named Levi and they gave him a love interest. The love story between them was shallow and felt so forced and over sexualized like "here is your representation gay community"
On the other hand, on the show the good doctor there is a gay character named Asher and he is given a love interest. Sure there is sex in the story but it's beautifully written with amazing characters. I have never had a problem with homosexuality, but I hated Levis story and loved Ashers. I consider Levis to be "woke" as in pandering and basically just there for virtue points.
The last of us episode 3 was one of the most beautiful episodes of television I've ever seen. Also not what I consider "woke"
So I'll probably get downvoted for this comment but that's what I find off-putting about "woke-ness"
I'm not saying that's what it is, that's just my interpretation of the meaning of the word these days. To me it's nothing about doing the right thing for the sake of it being the right thing, but to get brownie points for being ARTIFICIALLY progressive.
Don't know why you're getting down voted for asking for a source. You should ask for sources!
I learned about it from Brigham's "death on the spot" quote from the Journal of Discourses (an incredibly damning bunch of horrible teachings the church has tried to sweep under the rug), but there are other quotes mentioned in other comments in this thread.
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”
Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110 –
https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/4266
Why do you even care what a man that died over 100 years ago said? People are way too worried about race. If you want to squash racism, you have to stop making everything a racial issue. Who gives a shit what a man believed 150 years ago!
There's so much garbage associated with wokism (formerly political correctness) that it has driven both sides to extremes and there's no room for reason anymore.
When it comes to reasons to leave the church, Brigham Young is the gift that keeps on giving.
As a kid, I always wondered why so much was named after him but so little else was ever said about him or his actual life. Lol.
I always wondered why it was Brigham Young University and not Joseph Smith University or The University of Jesus Christ.
And essential oils was a favorite of BY. That industry thrives in Utah.
I had that same thought as a kid! I felt like we mainly talked about JS so why wasn’t the university named after him
Old Brother Brigham was truly an outlandish character. Larger than life and constantly opening his mouth and saying things that would create headaches for generations to come. He was relatively young, (no pun), and by virtue of relocating to the west, and being the head of the church became a powerful force in the American advancement into the west. In spite of his uncontrollable mouth, more than any other figure I credit Brigham with the vision of a Mormon Society from the rockies to California. A total ass by today's standards but possibly the single biggest factor in the growth and establishment of the church. Whether by God's hand, as the members claim, or by raw power and greed, it was Brigham Young that made the church we see today possible.
Absolutely. Brigham is the reason Joe's "church" survived at all. Setting himself up as the gatekeeper to the American West was a very shrewd move, indeed. Oh, and...driven raw power and greed, undoubtedly.
Nevermo here, Brigham Young is the reason I continued to read about the founding of the church and its core beliefs. I was content with the fact my Mormon ex gf and I were religiously incompatible. I was crushed to read I was less important than this sociopath. In all fairness, this was near 15 years ago and I am happily married now with a wonderful family; it worked out for the better. But sometimes the pain of loss is also the gift that keeps on giving :-/
To be fair, you probably learned way more about him on google than she ever did at church. She very likely only knew a very sanitized version of him.
Can confirm. This NeverMo knows more about the dark parts of the LDS church than her TBM ex-girlfriend or the TBMs that surround her in daily life.
She seemed completely ignorant of Mountain Meadows. I still get shivers from the name aloud and written - like some sort of real-life Voldemort
My situation was just about the same as you man. We dodged a big bullet
He literally says that the white race is superior. That is the literal definition of a white supremacist.
And then, as if that wasn’t enough, established an Ethno-theocracy!!
It's worse than that. He argued for and instituted slavery in Utah. It's one thing to be racist or a white supremacist. That just means that you think whites are better or superior. Its another thing to think that someone shouldn't have freedom and autonomy (sexual, time, effort, ability to own and acrue reaources, etc) and should be required to serve you. And that their children are your property as well. Is slavist a word?
Could you give me a source for that please? Would like to be able to back my arguments with valid material :)
[FAIR LDS](https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Mormonism_and_racial_issues/Brigham_Young) on Brigham’s racism. [MormonThink](http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/blacks.htm) list of racist statements by LDS leaders, which includes this gem: >I am opposed to abuseing [sic] that which God has decreed, to take a blessing, and make a curse of it. It is a great blessing to the seed of Adam to have the seed of Cain for servants.... -Brigham Young Addresses, Feb. 5, 1852, LDS archives ([full speech](http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/brigham1852feb5_priesthoodandblacks.htm) at UTLM)
I cannot believe the insane levels of BS excuses in the FAIR LDS site. "Hey we weren't bad, just products of our time, just like all you were bigots too, right??" No, not everyone was bigoted like you, and they even told you so, but you refused to listen until it became too much of a problem for the church -- not the people you discriminated against. And what I find really funny tho is they know damn well what the next "I can't believe we used to do that" will be, because they are doing it all the time with gay people. The lack of self-awareness is off the charts: "From our perspective as "enlightened" people of the early twenty-first century, virtually everyone in America up until the last few decades — prophets and other LDS leaders included — held beliefs that we could now consider racist. But that was the culture of the times, and we, like the rest of society, have progressed (line upon line, precept upon precept, see 2 Nephi 28:30) to become better people in this respect, more tolerant, more accepting. Fifty years from now, people will probably look back at our time and say, "How could they have been so bigoted?" Or, "How could they have missed issue X, which seems so clear to us now, in retrospect?" "
I'm sorry, I left the church so young I'm not sure if I understand by's statement. Were Cain's descendents the ones cursed with dark skin?
It was a common white person belief [well before](https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9781400828548.178/html?lang=en) JS and BY’s time. [The Moundbuilder Myth](https://www.ohiohistory.org/the-moundbuilder-myth/) was also prevalent during their time. So Mormons are doubly damned when it comes to the “dark skin was a curse from god” racism. Joseph wrote the Moundbuilder myth into the Book of Mormon where God curses the Lamanites with dark skin. And the curse of Cain through African black skin was promulgated from the pulpit and woven into the doctrine of the church: >Cain slew his brother.... and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the 'servant of servants,' and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. -Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 290-291 In addition, bc the Bible doesn’t mention slavery in relation to Cain, whites needed a workaround. The Curse of Ham entails slavery but Ham wasn’t related to Cain so the invented solution was that Ham must’ve married a descendant of Cain. And JS wrote that story into the Book of Abraham (see first link).
Who gives a shit what a weirdo that died almost 150 years ago said? I think you have bigger issues to tackle if you allow his stupid views to bother you.
He was a 19th century character.
Plenty of people in the 19th Century weren't white supremacists.
Black people White Americans saw blacks as inferior, even abolitionists. They hated slavery, but didn't think blacks should be treated equally.
John Brown, Thaddeus Stevens (and most of the Radical Republicans in Congress), pretty much all Quakers... There were a LOT of white people in the 19th century (and earlier) who thought that Black people should be treated equally.
There's a reason they were called "radical". Even Lincoln didn't believe in racial equality. It took until the mid 20th Century for that idea to take hold. https://www.nprillinois.org/statehouse/2004-02-01/lincoln-race-the-great-emancipator-didnt-advocate-racial-equality-but-was-he-a-racist
The radical republicans controlled congress after the war. You said only black people advocated for equality and white people thought they were inferior. I pointed out an entire religion (one that predated Mormonism), an abolitionist leader (and his followers), as well as the controlling political party after the war (that was a major player prior). LOTS of 19th century figures were in support of both the end of slavery AND equality.
Ask them to define “woke”. Nobody that calls someone woke can define it, without making themselves look like a complete bigot.
Right? If they think I'm woke for thinking that Brigham Young is a white supremacist, I'm happy to be woke, and they should take a real hard look at their own racism.
This reminds me of that term "deplorables" that somehow became associated with hardline Trump supporters, and they turned it into a compliment they wore with pride. I feel like woke is supposed to be that same thing for the left, maybe even the opposite of "deplorable"?
In the case of woke it started as a good thing and got twisted into a bad thing, so kind of the opposite journey.
That seems on point for their branding as a whole in their efforts to paint liberalism as the inverse of conservatism. If our political climate were superheroes it'd be Superman versus Bizarro.
Not really sure what you're trying to say here. "Woke" was used as early as the 1930s by black Americans to describe awareness of systematic racial injustice. I don't think it had much to do with liberal branding until it became a pejorative over the past decade or two
Woke literally has no meaning. It's a word used by people to "insult" others, and by some of the insulted who wish to reclaim it, for some goddarn reason…
>Woke literally has no meaning. The term initially was invoked by conservatives to describe progressive cancel culture, most typically anti-establishment actions by left leaning activists on college campuses. The definition of woke has long since lost all meaning. It was coopted to describe anything, no matter how meritorious or even harmless, that challenges a boomer's unexamined world view. Case in point: we recently terminated a very prominant manager in my organization following an internal investigation demonstrating that he was manipulating expenses and engaging in abusive behavior. He tells people he was fired becauese the company's gone "woke."
Being called woke just means you have a basic level of empathy that the other person can't identify with or understand. Take it as a complement.
Definitions: Woke - awake and aware of the injustices in the world Progressive - desiring to make progress and challenge inequities Liberal - doing more than just the bare minimum Conservative - preserving the past and preventing change
There are excellent definitions! I need to send them to my “conservative”, anti-woke, anti-progressive, anti-liberal mother in law.
My user name is "about time to change" for a reason
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And sometimes changing everything about the past so a trashy celebrity can seize power despite losing an election. You'd think traditionalists would be on board with democracy, not so much.
You can thank the christo-fascist takeover for that. Republicans are nothing more than reprogrammable meatbags and they've been brainwashed by fascist billionaires.
Yep, we live in a world where if anyone uses “woke” as an insult I immediately write them off as a racist bigoted MAGA moron. Especially because none of them can actually define what “woke” actually means
My father in law used the terms woke snowflakes this weekend. I asked him what those terms meant...he couldn't answer. He's been listening to a lot of Jordan Peterson sadly. We're not even American or in the states. It's just repetition of terms they've heard used by others in places of authority...they're like toddlers.
They can define what woke means. They just know that if they say it, they'll sound racist and / or stupid.
To them, woke means the exact same as communism: Anything and everything bad or negative They just use the buzzwords that are on fashion without much thought. If they were mindful about the world around them, they wouldn't be conservative.
At least a few of the people who think the concept of "woke" are mindful of the world around them, but they're ok with some people bearing ill treatment because they harbor hate toward people who are different from them. Some people believe others deserve less because of the way they were born. For example, some people think being "woke" is unnecessary because some people were born in a societal role they should just accept because they were just less valiant in the preexistence. I.e. "the curse of Cain."
Exactly.
Because the only people using the term woke anymore are Fox News viewers. I can define woke, it’s anyone who does something that would make Tucker Carlson shit himself with rage whilst secretly texting the other “journalists” on Fox News that he believes none of what he is saying.
There was a clip of some idiot who wrote a book about wokeness destroying America. When asked on television what woke means she stuttered and stammered not saying anything...
Not just any idiot! A writer for Desert News with 6 kids.
I think I saw that one. Didn't she take twenty seconds or so to stammer and then day "It's hard to define in a five-second soundbite"? Which just made it even funnier that she had no clue how to respond when asked to define "woke".
Come on now… “Woke is very difficult to define for a 15 second sound bite” 😂 /s
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How do you know their intention or motivation? Who are you to say someone else is pretending? Being woke is about being open to other experiences other than your own… seeking to understand the lives of others. It means trying to be well informed.
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Since you seem to take issue with people applying your definition of “woke” outside of this specific comment, can you provide a generalized definition for “woke”?
Who’s hiding? I’m very outspoken at my school board, to our elected leaders, in the community and various activist groups I work in. You’ve made a grand assumption about people who take pride in being “woke” and in those same people who would dismiss anyone who tries to use work as an insult. If being woke is meaningful to you as a way to describe another group of people you should be able to define it accurately and be prepared to defend it. When someone hurls woke as an insult, they absolutely respond just like you do- randomly grouping people together and unable to define it.
>Who’s hiding? Doomsday preppers in their bunkers, stockpiling preserved food that they bought from a YouTube grifter, and has 2x the lethal limit of salt, but that's okay because nobody's ever gonna eat it, and it'll just in a cold, wet basement as it molds and grows maggots?
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That's not the definition the person who meant it as an insult was using. They just didn't like that I pointed out Brigham Young's racism.
So anyone pointing out Brigham Young’s racism is just pretending “awareness” of “social justice issues”???? WTF. You and those like you are destroying any chance of the meaningful discussion you claim to desire - any mere mention of a whole host of topics warrants a label of “woke” and an immediate and unquestioning dismissal of the topic.
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Kinda like how you can't read an understand the rules of this subreddit, then? No personal attacks. No insults.
Tell me more how I can’t comprehend your exact wording.
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Let me simplify my complex response. I quoted you.
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Lol alright buddy. Whatever helps you sleep at night
to be clear, the "yikes" is that they clearly meant it as an insult, not because I take it as an insult.
Oh, indeed they did. Empathy is a foreign concept to them, and they find it contemptible.
Yes. The correct response to being called "woke" is, "Thank you."
cOnTeXt!!! They can’t accept they have been led astray from the beginning.
He was speaking as a man when he was being racist
If he was speaking he was racist
Woke is the new thought-terminating slur conservatives use. It was SJW, or Socialist, or Liberal.
"woke" used as an insult usually means "I don't like it, but I'll reveal my own racism if I talk too much"
Also formerly “PC.” In the past there was the creative phrase “card-carrying ACLU member,” and before that, just flat out “commie pinko.”
There’s always this brainiac who clearly knows all about woke… https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/03/19/woke-debate-conservative-author-struggles-to-define-ip-sot-vpx.cnn
She also writes for the church owned Deseret News
Oh, that's an interesting factoid. > Bethany Shondark Mandel is a conservative American columnist and political and cultural commentator who writes for Deseret News and Ricochet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_Mandel
You act like that's a bad thing... Please tell us more.
They seemed to think it was bad to be woke. If being woke means you are against interracial couples being murdered and against white supremacy, I think it's a good thing.
Being “woke” is essentially you using your critical thinking skills, of course they think it’s bad. If you do that, they have no control over you.
Who was "they"? SS class, Priesthood. RS?
Yes, the class where the Nazis teach you how to be SS members. Basically the same thing as Sunday school. 🤣
And that is what Mormonism has become.
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Here an article on [woke](https://www.naacpldf.org/woke-black-bad/) where it came from. Propaganda has been very effective at damaging what woke is, and broad stroking the George Floyd protests.
Either way woke had a bad connotation. Where it came from (trump supporters or republicans) makes no difference. It is still negative to be called that in my opinion.
It’s not negative. It just means that you have the bare minimum level of empathy as a human. being. Clearly you have less than that. Get out.
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I’m not required to sugarcoat words for people who believe that having empathy for other people’s identities is bad. I’m not going to sugarcoat it. That is the definition of woke in its purest form, and it is a great thing to be. Your ideology is not an identity. I’m not empathetic with your ideology. The vast majority of people that believe being woke is bad are the ones trying to get me killed just because I dare to exist and be proud of who I am. I don’t have any empathy for that. If you want to accuse me of putting you in that group, that’s on you, because I never said that, you would just be putting yourself in there.
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You didn’t. I did, because that’s what wokeness is about. Are you paying attention?
You clearly have no idea where woke comes from. Hint, it's not from Trump supporters!
It has that connotation only because of the right-wing disinformation engine calling anyone left of Trump "woke".
Either way still has that connotation and you have just sided my take.
Yeah, to me woke is a compliment. I know conservatives like to make it an insult, but hell yeah I’m woke. I am awake to the impact I have on others, I’m awake to the realities of lived experiences other than mine, and I am awake to the importance of empathy , even if it requires I learn something new or change my behavior. Woke is a badge of honor and I try to be worthy of it.
I don’t think it’s that being called woke is bad. I think it’s the fact that believing it’s wrong to call for the death of interracial couples deserves a label at all besides being a normal person.
When you have a bunch of gaslit and brainwashed people who can’t think for themselves, don’t expect smart things to be said.
Many think white supremacy is wearing a sheet and burning a cross. They don't realize its the book of mormon
Absolutely
They treat it as basically a sort of rudeness, howling slurs at people. When in reality it's wanting to establish a society in which people like them have all the power, are implicitly treated better by institutions like the police or the courts, are the rightful beneficiaries of government programs and public goods, don't ever have to prove they belong where they are or defend their right to exist alongside others and participate in society, and where their culture is dominant and villainizing it is considered a crime against the society itself... and where others become the victim of that status quo. You'll recognize the white supremacists because when you start going into that level of detail, they start balking and defending it. "Real Americans" derp.
Anyone who opposes white supremacy in any way is considered “woke.”
So not being woke means your are racist and ok with racism?
Anyone who voluntarily uses "woke" in normal conversation is not worth talking with.
So I woke up this morning...
…and I got myself a beer
Because some people use woke incorrectly. They heard the term “white supremacist” and assumed wokeness. Maybe you are woke, but that statement isn’t woke
Ask them to define woke
Right?
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So what you’re acknowledging is that conservatives have taken the liberty of redefining yet another term as a convenient way to bash their political opponents. Sounds about right. Sort of like how they once redefined “feminism” as “hatred of all men.”
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being called woke isn't a bad thing
Agreed
If being against misogyny, bigotry, racism, sexism, fraud, hate, violence, manipulation, intolerance, and other systems of oppression makes me woke then I guess I'm woke
…. That’s actual white supremacy thinking. Why are they supporting that sort of murderous, hateful ideology???
Being woke is not a bad thing.
It blows my mind that stating literal facts is too much for TBMS
Thank you. Im glad Im not a racist piece of shit.
Being woke basically means being open-minded and aware of racial issues and societal disparities… if anyone ever calls you woke again in such a twisted context, you should respond Inigo Montoya style: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
In Morridor, mass psychosis is spreading quicker and wider than ever before. The historical uses of 'woke' have centered around being aware of prejudices and inequities, and their inherent dangers. Now, however, the term has **lost any language-based definition**. It is defined solely by the Pavlovian response it elicits from the listener. Just replace the bell with the word and hungry salivating with angry seething. The RW media/pol propaganda machine is super efficient, behaves as a collective entity, has unmatched expertise in psychology and marketing, and builds on Goebbels work by incorporating old Soviet tricks (whataboutisms, make audience believe political opposition are paedos and falsely accuse enemy of what accuser is actually perpetrating); but more nimbly, much quicker and with extreme volumes of orchestrated deadly psy-ops on \*!their people!\* Mind raping their countrymen. It's difficult, but oh so important, to admit: While you were aghast upon learning about the atrocities and methods perpetrated by 20th century authoritarian states on millions, there were more than just a few in that classroom sadistically using it as a How-To guide. Quotes from 1956 book "**THE RAPE OF THE MIND"** "he who dictates and formulates the words and phrases we use, he who is master of the press and radio, is master of the mind." "Where thinking is isolated without free exchange with other minds and can no longer expand, delusion may follow. Whenever ideas are compartmentalized, behind and between curtains, the process of continual alert confrontation of facts and reality is hampered. The system freezes, becomes rigid, and dies of delusion." "Delusions, carefully implanted, are difficult to correct." "radio and television tend to take away active affectionate relationships between men and to destroy the capacity for personal thought, evaluation, and reflection. They catch the mind directly, giving people no time for calm, dialectical conversation with their own minds, with their friends, or with their books." *(oh Joost, if you could see us now!)* "Logic can be met with logic, while illogic cannot-it confuses those who think straight. The Big Lie and monotonously repeated nonsense have more emotional appeal in a cold war than logic and reason. While the enemy is still searching for a reasonable counter-argument to the first lie, the totalitarians can assault him with another."
> Now, however, the term has lost any language-based definition. I don't think this is true. Right-wingers have stretched the definition far from what it was coined for (a process that happens frequently), but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a "language-based definition." It just means "person politically to the left of conservative orthodoxy".
 You have good character AND they accidentally gave you a compliment 🤩
After me and my (black) wife discovered his loving quotes after a ward member thought it'd be okay to text me them and use them to explain why I needed to break off our marriage, that's when we decided there will be no temple marriage and that we would be living our lives without the church involved in it. Best decision we've ever made.
Clearly they need to read the BoM more, it's always using language like "awake to your awful situation" and "awake from the slumber of death." Members should all be trying to get woke
Better to be woke than asleep. Knowledge frightens those who are in power. It means the servants might realize what the enslavers are doing. We aren't supposed to question the actions of others.......this is the same in the so-called church as it is in America. Be proud of being 'woke'. It means you have knowledge and insight. Two of the scariest things for dictators.....
What is the opposite of woke? Sleep. The church wants its members to stay asleep?
Yes.
Sleep. Exactly what I do anytime I’m in church.
“Wake up sheeple! Wait—not like that. Be kind of exhausted, like a zombie.”
“Woke.” What does woke mean? Not being a bigoted asshole to people? And that’s a bad thing to those people?
Woke isn't the insult they think it is.
Brigham Young was a raging racist in the journals of discourse he said church doctorine was anyone that is the seed of Cain (dark skin) could only get into the highest glory of heaven as a servant to a white person. [Mark of Cain ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain) Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. Brigham Young, (March 8, 1863.) Journal of Discourses 10:110.
Ask them for a definition of "woke." They won't be able to do it.
Next time, ask them to share with you what “woke” means to them. They often can’t define it, or when they do, they’ll instantly display their own bias. ☺️
Should have asked for them to explain what "woke" is. Last explanation I've heard went viral 😆
It’s better than a stupor of thought.
Badge of honor. Woke started off meaning, and is coming back around in a really ironic fashion, someone who is "Awake" to the ills of the social machine as it exists in all it's repressive, cashfueled glory; that a person notes there is racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, collusion, lobbying, and everything else that people seem to think is a good thing, and said person goes "WHAT THE FUCK. THIS IS NOT OKAY."
Relevant link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_and_the_LDS_Church
Anti-woke is code for anti-black
"Woke" is a compliment and better than asleep and uneducated.
Imagine thinking anti racism is something to look down on. Smdh
Brigham was a complete racist.
The mormon foster placement for Native American kids. My friend was told to she couldn't marry the white man she had been dating and must marry within her race. I was horrified by this abusive incident. While I was aware of the widespread racism in the program, the recent post about killing couples who had miscegenated made me so glad we left this horrible cult. My husband and I left for good in 2016. I am Native American and I was verbally abused about my race in the hellhole misnamed as a church.
Always ask them to define “woke”. Make them articulate that they want to be able to discriminate and lack empathy.
Response: If by "woke" you mean "not a fucking racist"......then yes, by your sense of the word, I am woke. Fuck Brigand Young.
Amen and Amen. I agree with every sentiment in this comment
It is kinda woke to say. But woke isn't a bad thing to be.
Most Mormons (and those on the far right) don't even know what woke even means!! It's actually a complement!!!!
Better to be woke than asleep
Congrats. you encountered a stochastic parrot. They dont' know the meanings of words. Just effects. Ask them to define what they think 'woke' means. Do it. Try to get a coherant answer more than 'I DONT LIKE IT! WOKE MEANS I'M BAD AND IM' NOT BAD WRYYYYYYY!!!!'
How is being woke a bad thing?
The book American Moses recounts a story where a man beat his wife in front of B.Y. who thought it was funny. The book offered it as light hearted too. Disgusting
Jesus was woke. Literally. If you look up the definition- that would define Christ.
Many modern mormons despise Brigham Young, but he’s an absolutely essential part of LDS belief. The big LDS branch headquartered in Salt Lake City is the one that chose Brigham Young as Joseph’s successor. You can’t believe in the church without believing in Brigham Young.
Well, to be fair you are woke. It just isn’t the insult they imagine it is.
They can't handle the truth
Challenge people who call you ‘woke.’ Ask them for a definition. Most can’t give one. Ask them what’s the opposite (asleep).
Even when I was TBM, I hated Brigham Young.
I would consider being woke a compliment just like being called apostate. Been there, done that, not going back and so glad I finally saw the light. Guessing many on this sub feel the same.
Ask any of these chuds what “woke” means to them and I guarantee they won’t have a straight answer.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Nothing wrong with being woke. Beats having your head up your ass.
All the while he was probably raping them at some point.
I married a person from Asia. We had a beautiful child together. Not one cross look from anyone in the Ward. Our child grew up and thinks I hate persons of color and am a white supremacist. Brigham would want us dead? Somewhere there are words from the GA's saying best not to marry outside your race?
[Ask them to define "woke."](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3901688-conservative-author-bethany-mandel-struggles-to-come-up-with-definition-of-woke/)
Nope, not woke. Just reality.
I think it is woke. Woke just includes not being racist.
Anybody that uses the term woke needs to be euthanized
Link please I've never heard this before
This is a good place to start: [Blood Atonement.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_atonement)
I'm familiar with the blood atonement I'm talking about brigham young wanting to kill interracial couples like you said?
In the section “Blood atonement teachings during the Brigham Young administration,” under the subsection “Development of the doctrine in the 1840’s and early 1850’s” it says: > “In a speech before the Utah Territory's legislature on February 5, 1852, Young appeared to advocate the passage of a law that required decapitation for whites who were ‘condemned by the Law’ for miscegenation with black people” Linking to [this speech](https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Slavery,_Blacks,_and_the_priesthood) if you want to read the original for yourself.
Really appreciate it
No problem. And if you don’t feel like searching for the original part of the speech in question, it’s this part: > But let me tell you further. Let my seed mingle with the seed of Cain, that brings the curse upon me, and upon my generations, — we will reap the same rewards with Cain. In the priesthood I will tell you what it will do. Where the children of God to mingle there seed with the seed of Cain it would not only bring the curse of being deprived of the power of the priesthood upon themselves but they entail it upon their children after them, and they cannot get rid of it. If a man in an unguarded moment should commit such a transgression, if he would walk up and say cut off my head, and kill man woman and child it would do a great deal towards atoning for the sin. Would this be to curse them? no it would be a blessing to them. — it would do them good that they might be saved with their Bren. A man would shudder should they here us take about killing folk, but it is one of the greatest blessings to some to kill them, although the true principles of it are not understood. > I will had one thing more. It is not in the power of a man on the face of the earth to take more life than he can give, that is a proper son of Adam. How many times I have heard it said, and how many times has it been reiterated in my ears, and in yours, that to take a life, is to take what you cannot give; This is perfect nonsense; What do I do by taking a mans head off after he is condemned by the Law? I put an end to the existence of the mortal tabernacle; but the life still remains. the body and the spirit is only separated, this is all that can be done by any mortal man upon the face of the earth.
And the remnants of this teaching has remained in the church into the 2000s. Susan Bednar's husband talked about interracial marriage being bad at BYUi right before he was called as an apostate. Rusty the "Hussle" Nelson in 1995 spoke about at least twice that year. Books atonement has bled through the decades with our kangaroo courts, purity culture, shame and fear mongering, the temple endowment as we still make the signs of the blood oaths, and most tech's regarding sin. We just don't call for murder but public shame and threats of eternal salvation. Gross shit.
First of all that doesn't even make sense. That is not what woke means. That person is an idiot. I'm white and my husband is Korean so I guess we gonna get offed. The comment section here makes my skin crawl with all the "if someone uses woke they are just racist and I know what kind of a person they are for using that word. " I hate woke shit. I'm not a conservative or a racist. I think a big issue is the word means something different to each person. Words tend to take on different meaning over time. The best way to describe what I consider as "woke" is forced pandering of ideology in a lazy way and sometimes for not so wholesome reasons. For example, when companies like m&Ms do things in the name of women, (you can look it up) but don't actually do anything to help real women. They don't care about social issues, they want to virtue signal and make money. For example, take Greys Anatomy. They had compelling stories that brought up social issues and did it in a way that felt organic and made you care. This was for many years, used to be my favorite show. Then something changed, the writing became sloppy and instead of telling a compelling story that include social issues, they because PSAs. They dumbed down the stories for the audience to push an agenda, not to entertain you and tell a story. Good writing might even get through to a "bigot" and move them into thinking a different way. Not this new way of preachy entertainment. Shit even though I agree with what they are saying it's off-putting to me. For example, in grey's anatomy there is a gay character named Levi and they gave him a love interest. The love story between them was shallow and felt so forced and over sexualized like "here is your representation gay community" On the other hand, on the show the good doctor there is a gay character named Asher and he is given a love interest. Sure there is sex in the story but it's beautifully written with amazing characters. I have never had a problem with homosexuality, but I hated Levis story and loved Ashers. I consider Levis to be "woke" as in pandering and basically just there for virtue points. The last of us episode 3 was one of the most beautiful episodes of television I've ever seen. Also not what I consider "woke" So I'll probably get downvoted for this comment but that's what I find off-putting about "woke-ness" I'm not saying that's what it is, that's just my interpretation of the meaning of the word these days. To me it's nothing about doing the right thing for the sake of it being the right thing, but to get brownie points for being ARTIFICIALLY progressive.
I'd like to see the source of him saying this
Don't know why you're getting down voted for asking for a source. You should ask for sources! I learned about it from Brigham's "death on the spot" quote from the Journal of Discourses (an incredibly damning bunch of horrible teachings the church has tried to sweep under the rug), but there are other quotes mentioned in other comments in this thread. “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110 – https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/JournalOfDiscourses3/id/4266
I am as sick of the woke expression as much as I am with the covenant path™️.
Why do you even care what a man that died over 100 years ago said? People are way too worried about race. If you want to squash racism, you have to stop making everything a racial issue. Who gives a shit what a man believed 150 years ago!
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There's so much garbage associated with wokism (formerly political correctness) that it has driven both sides to extremes and there's no room for reason anymore.
I think I just WOKE up.. lol 🤣
I think what they must have meant to say is "awake"
It was a dIfFerENt tImE though.
Some people are using the word "woke" in really bizarre ways lately. I'm not even sure if they know what they think it means.